June Jones - wow

[Old Tiger]

Blast Tim Tebow saying he is the system QB and that he don't think Tebow could play in his system and that Brennan could play in any system. I agree with jones though.

[Gobbla2001]

wow, pretty harsh comment... I think Brennan could play in any system, but I also believe Tebow could... the dude is a hard-nosed QB, tough as nails... he's a great QB...

[WylieBulldog92]

I retract my statement.

[westcoast54]

I wouldn't turn either one away.

[iknoweverything]

Id take Tebow over Brennan any day. But thats just me.

[DDBooger]

which will fit in a "NFL" system? I know for damn sure Tebow won't run like that in the NFL, unless he gets moved to FB:D they're both good qb's, shame Hawaii isn't playing Fla.

[thewyliefan]

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a303/awylie112/tebowheisman.jpg


end of story

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by thewyliefan
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a303/awylie112/tebowheisman.jpg


end of story

131 passing touchdowns(career)
14024 passing yards(career)
15 rushing touchdowns(career)
39 interceptions(career)
585 yards rushing(career)

[thewyliefan]

if those are brenons numbers....hes also had how many more years playing than tebow? just give it time

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by thewyliefan
if those are brenons numbers....hes also had how many more years playing than tebow? just give it time Those numbers are from 3 years(soph, junior, and senior) year.

[thewyliefan]

ok, and this is tebows first year really to start. he'll get better than he is this year and he was a beast. he is the new age QB, he can do it all. its great and all that brenon can stay in the pocket and pass all day and may be this and that in the NFL, all im tryin to say is that when it comes to this year in college football, tim tebow was the best there.....he15man

[westtxfballfan]

Originally posted by Go Blue
Those numbers are from 3 years(soph, junior, and senior) year.
Against MUCH weaker competition than Tebow's faced in the SEC.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by thewyliefan
ok, and this is tebows first year really to start. he'll get better than he is this year and he was a beast. he is the new age QB, he can do it all. its great and all that brenon can stay in the pocket and pass all day and may be this and that in the NFL, all im tryin to say is that when it comes to this year in college football, tim tebow was the best there.....he15man He'd die in the NFL.

[thewyliefan]

well good thing the heisman goes to the best college player, and last time i checked tebow is only a sophmore. man you sure proved your point aginst me.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by thewyliefan
well good thing the heisman goes to the best college player, and last time i checked tebow is only a sophmore. man you sure proved your point aginst me. Does it?


Reggie Bush?
Troy Smith?
Eric Crouch?
Jason White?


To name a few. All the Heisman is now days is a popularity contest.

[thewyliefan]

i supose i could semi agree w/ that. but you still cant away all of what tebow has done rushing and passing as a QB.i just think that if brenon had to play aginst actual tough teams like in the SEC and some of the upper teams of the pac 10 those numbers wouldnt be close to what they are. im not saying brenon isnt an amazing qb, i just think tebow was better.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by thewyliefan
i supose i could semi agree w/ that. but you still cant away all of what tebow has done rushing and passing as a QB.i just think that if brenon had to play aginst actual tough teams like in the SEC and some of the upper teams of the pac 10 those numbers wouldnt be close to what they are. im not saying brenon isnt an amazing qb, i just think tebow was better. Tebows rushing stats are a bit decieving IMO. All of them come from inside the 10-15. Stat padding i guess you could say. It's not like he breaks off huge runs. Hell he carriest the ball 15-30 times a game!

[thewyliefan]

and because of that florida has actually lost a rb to the transfer. i do wish they would hand it off every now and then and not be 1 dimensional. but i guess what you have a fullback playing qb who cares:)

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by Go Blue
Does it?


Reggie Bush?
Troy Smith?
Eric Crouch?
Jason White?


To name a few. All the Heisman is now days is a popularity contest. you cant really argue against Reggie Bush or Troy Smith winning the heisman imo

[gatordaze]

Originally posted by thewyliefan
and because of that florida has actually lost a rb to the transfer. i do wish they would hand it off every now and then and not be 1 dimensional. but i guess what you have a fullback playing qb who cares:)

Fayson was a QB turned RB and he left because Emannual Moody transferred in from USCw. Look out next year with a true running back added to TT and Percy!

[Big Papa]

Originally posted by thewyliefan
i supose i could semi agree w/ that. but you still cant away all of what tebow has done rushing and passing as a QB.i just think that if brenon had to play aginst actual tough teams like in the SEC and some of the upper teams of the pac 10 those numbers wouldnt be close to what they are. im not saying brenon isnt an amazing qb, i just think tebow was better.

yeah but if you look at the people around tebow and brennan...brennan has some excellent wide receivers...but i would go out on a limb and say tebow has the better o-line, d-line, linebackers, and secondary...and just as good wide recievers...i heard some one put it htis way talking about a running back in think in the c-usa...sure he was doin it against c-usa defenses...but he was also doing it with a c-usa o-line

[alaskacat]

I agree with June Jones, Tebow dont throw good enough to fit into his system.

I have been around the run and shoot since I went to college at Portland State and Neil Lomax was our QB.

500 yards passing was an OK day, and 6 or 7 TD's was just an OK day, but nothing special.

It is a lot tougher to defend than even the spread. You have 5 or 6 receivers in the pattern continuously every play, short medium and long, which makes for a 3 man rush. Neil was mobile and could run just enough to keep you honest if he had to. But would pick you apart

Brennan in a better runner, and has better receivers. Lomax went on to play for St Louis and got hurt because of a piss poor offensive line.

Brennan is probably better.

In my honest opinion you are going to see a major upset of Georgia.

Hawaii gets no respect, just like Boise State, and Boise State beat Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl last year. The last time I checked the only loss Boise State has is to Hawaii this year.


As far as I'm concerned this is for the National Championship. and will boycott the OSU LSU game...come on 2 Losses and in the final?..BS is all politics and money.

Hawaii is unbeaten and deserves the chance at the big dance.

Can you spell playoffs? This is even a better case for them than last year.

Upset? You betcha, the WAC is just as tough as any of them and gets no respect.

Over the years BYU, Boise State, and Wyoming have raised havoc with the outside when given an honest chance.


Stay tuned, the first game up next year IS Florida and Hawaii...so we have 10 months to anticipate this one:)

[alaskacat]

Run and Shoot offense



The Run And Shoot is an offensive scheme designed in the early 1960's in Columbus, Ohio, by high school football coach Tiger Ellison. Ellison lined his center on the line of scrimmage alone, and referred to him as the "Lonesome Polecat". Spreading the offense out forced the defense to do likewise, and resulted in quick scores. Ellison's scheme found many followers - it was employed by a number of college teams and until the mid-1990's was a staple of a number of NFL teams. The scheme has proven successful almost everywhere it has been implemented, and has helped many players and teams to set records.

Basics Of The Run And Shoot

The pure Run And Shoot has only eight plays in its playbook, but it is almost impossible for a defense to prepare for it. The reason is because every receiver on every play makes a "hot read" based on the defense, and changes their routes accordingly. At the same time, the quarterback moves away from oncoming rushers and finds a lane to throw to an open man. For the non-footballer, this simply means instead of running in a predetermined direction, they run away from the defenders, and the quarterback does the same. Because receivers are reading the coverage on the run, the defense can't simply "choose the right coverage" for a particular play. In most cases, there are four wide receivers and one running back. The spread formation keeps linebackers from overplaying the run, eliminating the need for blocking fullbacks and tight ends. At the same time, the linemen are spread out wide, often in a two- rather than a three-point stance. The object of the linemen is not to flatten the defenders, but absorb the defense with angle blocks away from the action.

Because of the nature of the Run And Shoot, it is susceptible to certain types of defenses. Defenses with good, quick blitzing schemes can get to the ball before everyone reaches their option points. Because the creation of chaos takes time to unfold, the blitzing team gains the upper hand. Teams that can disguise their defensive schemes have an advantage as well, because the Run And Shoot requires the offensive players to read the defense and react. Because the Run And Shoot also often results in quick scores, the corresponding defense ends up on the field for long periods of time with few breaks in between. So while the team is scoring loads of points on offense, they're also giving up load of points on defense.

The Rise Of The Run And Shoot

The Run And Shoot grew in popularity after Mouse Davis installed a tweaked version of it in 1975 at Portland State University for quarterback June Jones to run. Davis' teams would set the NCAA record in 1980, averaging 49.2 points per game. Quarterback Neil Lomax, an unrecruited walk-on at a Division II school, passed for 13,220 yards and 106 touchdowns, parlaying his success in the Run And Shoot to a long NFL career. Davis won with his system in college, the CFL, the USFL, and the Houston Oilers of the National Football League.

As the Houston Oilers strung together seven straight playoff appearances, other teams caught on to the scheme and started using it. The Detroit Lions and Atlanta Falcons went with a full Run And Shoot; other offenses implemented parts of it. In 1991, all three made the playoffs. The most successful season for a Run And Shoot offense was 1995, when the Atlanta Falcons had a 4,000 yard passer, and 1,000 yard rusher, and three 1,000 yard receivers.

The Decline Of The Run And Shoot

Despite its rampant success, the Run And Shoot has all but disappeared from the higher levels of football. The reasons for this are two-fold: misconceptions about the offense, and tangental problems that weren't the fault of the Run And Shoot.

First, the misconceptions. Although it's over thirty years old, the Run And Shoot is still considered by many to be a radical offense. It also has the reputation for being a finesse offense, and despite the fact that the NFL teams running ranked high in red zone efficiency, finesse offenses are considered unreliable inside the twenty yard line. Along the same line, the scheme is considered a passing scheme, and despite the success running backs like Barry Sanders and Craig Heyward had, the offense just isn't considered a tough, running, ball control offense.

Aside from the misconceptions about the offense, a number of events caused the downfall of the Run And Shoot. The first was the overwhelming success of the Houston Cougars. While it wouldn't seem that the overwhelming success of something would cause its downfall, it was the manner in which the Cougars acheived success that angered some. Quarterback David Klingler broke 33 NCAA records, including throwing for 11 touchdown passes in a single game. Despite having many games in hand by halftime, coach John Jenkins left his starters in and ran up the score. This cardinal sin of college football angered many in college football, slanting them against the Run And Shoot. It was considered gimmick offense run by coaches who couldn't coach as well as his peers.

The second major incident was the 1992 playoff game between the Buffalo Bills and Houston Oilers. The Oilers blew a 35-3 lead to backup quarterback Frank Reich and the Bills, losing the game in overtime, 41-38. Buddy Ryan, the most vocal opposition of the Run And Shoot, was hired as defensive coordinator for the Oilers. Within two years all traces of the Run And Shoot were gone in Houston, and the team dropped into mediocrity before moving to Tennessee.

The Run And Shoot has failed to make a comeback due in large part to the media's bias against it. When June Jones took over head coaching duties at the University Of Hawaii and announced that he was implementing the Run And Shoot, the remainder of the press conference centered around the scheme. And when the team failed to win, it was because the Run And Shoot wasn't powerful enough and couldn't score in the red zone. Another reason for the Run And Shoot's demise was the rise of the West Coast Offense. It allows for more flexibility with personnel (fullbacks and tight ends, multiple formations) and eats more clock, with the same high scoring results.

[alaskacat]

Detailed Biography of Neil Lomax

My success as a quarterback in the NFL and at Portland State University couldn’t have been predicted by my high school career. I was a pretty good athlete in all sports, although I thought I was better at baseball. I took a scholarship offer from Portland State because there were no other offers – certainly not for baseball, and not for football.

As it turned out, it was a wonderful decision.

Football was fun at Portland State. Mouse Davis, author of the Run and Shoot offense employed by a few NFL teams, was my coach. We threw nearly every down. I wound up setting over 90 NCAA Division I-AA records, and even threw for seven touchdowns in one quarter.

Then the NFL became interested. I was drafted by the St. Louis Cardinals as the second quarterback selected in 1981. I had a good career with the Cardinals, earning All-Pro honors in 1984 and 1987.

I retired in 1990 because of hip problems and had total hip replacement surgery a year later.

The real turning point in my life came not when I went to Portland State University and set all kinds of records – but two years before, when I was still a Sophomore in high school. My brother, with whom I did not really get along, went to something called “Malibu Club”. He came back changed. He went from being a brat of a brother to someone who was kind and considerate and caring. He had given His life to the Lord.
I was enticed. If something could change my brother it must have been very powerful. My brother and his friends sent me to the Malibu Club, and I had the same experience. I saw what he saw. I felt what he felt. I, too, was touched by God, and came back a Christian.

Coming back to high school after my experience at the Malibu Club was the most difficult time of my life. I had changed, and my friends resented the change. My priorities were different. I wasn’t doing the things I used to do, and my friends no longer accepted me.

I stayed involved in church through college, which allowed me to stay focused on the things that were important. I never got caught up in the college scene. I was able to say no to things that might have been destructive to me as a person and as a football player because of my faith. I stayed grounded even with all the success.

Looking back on my career in the NFL, I am very grateful. I had a good run. When I was forced to retire because of my hip, even though it was painful from a physical standpoint, it was my relationship with God that allowed me to focus on just getting my health back and being able to enjoy my family.

The piece of steel in my hip hasn’t hurt my golf game. Golf is my passion, and while I’m currently playing on the Celebrity Players Tour, I look forward to polishing my game to the point I can join the Senior Tour when I reach that age.

I’ve known success in my life, and have reached a certain level of fame and status. But God loved me just as much when I was a sophomore in high school as when I was an NFL quarterback. God is the same, yesterday, today and tomorrow, and He loves us the same whether we’ve accomplished something in the eyes of the world or are still struggling.

There’s something all of us can count on, whether we’re a pro or a student or an average person – the love of God.

[gatordaze]

Originally posted by Go Blue
Tebows rushing stats are a bit decieving IMO. All of them come from inside the 10-15. Stat padding i guess you could say. It's not like he breaks off huge runs. Hell he carriest the ball 15-30 times a game!

Everyone in the stadium knows Tebow is going to run inside the 5. How is that padding the numbers? Ask Chase Daniels how easy it is to run short yardage!

[buff4life]

Tebow has ALOT of cheap touchdowns....

whenever Florida is close to the goal, 3 yd line and in or so, most teams usually go to a goaline formation and give it to the RB, but Tebow is everything an walks in behind his line...

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Go Blue
Tebows rushing stats are a bit decieving IMO. All of them come from inside the 10-15. Stat padding i guess you could say. It's not like he breaks off huge runs. Hell he carriest the ball 15-30 times a game!
So what if they're inside the red zone? If he gets 15 carries for 10 yds each from the 15, or 15 carries for 10 yds from the 50, he still ends up with the same 150 yds, does he not?

[Maroon87]

I now know more about Neil Lomax than I ever wanted to...:p

When I was at Texas A&I we played Portland St. twice a year...once in the regular season and once in the Div. II playoffs. Those games were usually real close and each team won about the same amount of games in the series.

[gatordaze]

Originally posted by buff4life
Tebow has ALOT of cheap touchdowns....

whenever Florida is close to the goal, 3 yd line and in or so, most teams usually go to a goaline formation and give it to the RB, but Tebow is everything an walks in behind his line...

That makes no sense. If scoring was that easy inside the 3 yard line everyone would do it. He all but points at the hole he is going through then plows over the big bad linebacker!

[themsu97]

difference is that Florida spreads the field which create holes automatically... not that Tebow is not great but all qb's are a product of a system...
Jones is probably tired of hearing how Brennan is not a Heisman calibur qb because of the system he plays in, well so is Tebow... both deserve Hesiman consideration...
Jones has never been one to have tact

[alaskacat]

Originally posted by Maroon87
I now know more about Neil Lomax than I ever wanted to...:p

When I was at Texas A&I we played Portland St. twice a year...once in the regular season and once in the Div. II playoffs. Those games were usually real close and each team won about the same amount of games in the series.

Well then you know what I am talking about, that offense will drive a team nuts, cause they don't even know where the ball is going except up field somewhere.

Georgia is gonna be toast:)

[thewyliefan]

i can see where jones is jealous. tebow being sophmore and brenon being a senior and tebow getting more attention