Argyle Ordeal [Archive] - Texas DownLow Forum

SNYDER325TIGERS

11-29-2007, 02:27 AM

I wont to get this straight, Ive heard all kinds of things about this below:

After the game, Frizzell gave all the glory to his offensive linemen. After all, they kind of owed him.

Frizzell got to 993 yards on the season in last week’s 17-0 win over Clyde, and promised his linemen he’d take them out for a steak dinner when he passed 1,000 yards – only the second 1,000-yard rusher in Argyle history.

So last week, Frizzell took his linemen and their dates to Silver Fox in Grapevine and dropped $733 on steak, and watching the holes the junior had to run through, it paid dividends.

“Our coaches have been telling us all week this is a tough team,” Frizzell said. “We’d been prepping the linemen and working with them. We were gonna do everything we could to open the run tonight. They did a great job. It was all the linemen.”

Was it actually breaking UIL rules?

zaerryd

11-29-2007, 05:59 AM

That is an interesting question.. I would say, no, but since the kid did not invite the *whole* team to his "get-together", I guess it can be construed as a violation. I am not an UIL official, so I do not know exactly how they would define it.

3afan

11-29-2007, 07:04 AM

its a friend buying friends dinner - sounds OK to me but as far as UIL rules on this I have no clue ....

firstdown

11-29-2007, 07:11 AM

It had no effect on any games outcome. Give it a break and quit stirring the pot. It is not, I repeat not a violation.

BullFrog Dad

11-29-2007, 07:59 AM

Originally posted by firstdown
It had no effect on any games outcome. Give it a break and quit stirring the pot. It is not, I repeat not a violation. Don't be so sure. The UIL can be picky about these type of matters.

wyliegrad04

11-29-2007, 10:06 AM

this is stupid ... how is that breaking any kind of UIL rules? the dude bought dinner for his friends ...

Snyder_TigerFan

11-29-2007, 10:09 AM

When I was 16-18 years old, I wish I would have had a spare $733. If I did, I bet I wouldn't be buying a meal with it.

District303aPastPlayer

11-29-2007, 10:09 AM

Originally posted by wyliegrad04
this is stupid ... how is that breaking any kind of UIL rules? the dude bought dinner for his friends ...

okay, those friends happen to be athletes, and he is giving preferential treatment to only a select few athletes... which, by definition, is a violation of UIL rules...

Technoredneck

11-29-2007, 10:10 AM

High School "Athletes" are held to different rules.

This is a clear violation of the UIL rules and will probably strip Argyle of all their wins that happened after it. It may take a while for the UIL to address this, but when they do Argyle probably loses.

Go read the UIL rules about it, it is very clear that a athlete may not get anything that the entire student body is not offered, with the exception of the athletic banquets.

Butkus

11-29-2007, 10:16 AM

Well good gravy this here subject has already been brought up befour. Hey youngun did ole str or blackie have u bring this back up so u would be tha lightnin rod stead of them.:thinking:

crzyjournalist03

11-29-2007, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by Technoredneck
High School "Athletes" are held to different rules.

This is a clear violation of the UIL rules and will probably strip Argyle of all their wins that happened after it. It may take a while for the UIL to address this, but when they do Argyle probably loses.

Go read the UIL rules about it, it is very clear that a athlete may not get anything that the entire student body is not offered, with the exception of the athletic banquets.

so does that mean an athlete who is having a birthday party is required to invite the entire student body or he is in violation of UIL rules? I don't think taht's how it works.

If the coaches had offered a steak dinner, that's a violation. Kids offering props to other kids--you can't do anything about that! More power to him! When I was in school, there was a group of football players who went to one of the players' mom's houses every Thursday night and his mom would cook dinner for all of them...this is no different.

My REAL beef with the situation is the fact that the kid is obviously concussed, probably due to lack of protection from the O-line. He promised them steak after breaking the 1000 yard mark, so he buys them steak when his total is 993 yards. Poor kid...

Tromboneking

11-29-2007, 10:17 AM

this is an interesting problem...

I do think it is a violation simply because it was a selected group.

No, it did not effect the outcome of any games, but that isn't the issue...rules are rules. The UIL is very strict on this type of stuff. It isn't sturring the pot at all. It is simply a violation of rules.

lakers

11-29-2007, 10:20 AM

It doesnt seem like a big deal to me. The rule is not meant for little things such as this. We had the same deal when I was in high school. Heck that is one of the most popular incentives that linemen get.

There is nothin wrong with a linemen getting a treat everyonce in awhile. u dont notice them when they r doing good, but when they miss a block, ahh heck, u got fans yelling insults at them. The backs get all the glory when they one heck of a line in front of them. But when a back doesnt do to well one year, it is all the lines fault.

Doesnt seem like a big deal to me. It somebody has a problem with it then take it to the UIL, but I dont think they will do anything about it, because it goes on EVERYWHERE.

I say we just drop it...

Tromboneking

11-29-2007, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
so does that mean an athlete who is having a birthday party is required to invite the entire student body or he is in violation of UIL rules? I don't think taht's how it works.

If the coaches had offered a steak dinner, that's a violation. Kids offering props to other kids--you can't do anything about that! More power to him! When I was in school, there was a group of football players who went to one of the players' mom's houses every Thursday night and his mom would cook dinner for all of them...this is no different.

My REAL beef with the situation is the fact that the kid is obviously concussed, probably due to lack of protection from the O-line. He promised them steak after breaking the 1000 yard mark, so he buys them steak when his total is 993 yards. Poor kid...

No..that is a totally different situation. That does not involve school. The dinner was a result of success on the FB field.. big differnce than a birthday party.

Also, something else to consider. I am a parent and I know my kids don't have $700 bucks to buy all his friends dinner. Who actually paid...the kid or did mom or dad give him the $$ to pay. If that is the case that is also a violation.

Thirdly...what if Argyle does get stripped? Does Graham get another chance, or will Snyder simply get a bye? UIL needs to decide since the game is tomorrow night...

jason

11-29-2007, 10:22 AM

in my opinion - ANYBODY who sees this as a violation and thinks games will be forfeited needs to pull their head out....

it was a friend buying dinner for his friends as a thank you for their hard work....

it was not a coach or administrator buying dinner for part of the team...

good grief....

:mad: :mad:

Adidas410s

11-29-2007, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
When I was in school, there was a group of football players who went to one of the players' mom's houses every Thursday night and his mom would cook dinner for all of them...this is no different.

Ask the 1998 Katy Tigers if that's a violation of UIL rules. They can tell you! ;)

My REAL beef with the situation is the fact that the kid is obviously concussed, probably due to lack of protection from the O-line. He promised them steak after breaking the 1000 yard mark, so he buys them steak when his total is 993 yards. Poor kid...

I think he took them to dinner a week later...so I'm guessing he earned 7 yards in their first playoff game.

3afan

11-29-2007, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by Technoredneck
...

Go read the UIL rules about it,...

post 'em .....

BullFrog Dad

11-29-2007, 10:23 AM

X. BOOSTER CLUBS, PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT
Booster clubs cannot give any item of valuable consideration to students, including awards, favors, etc. School administrators must
give prior approval to any banquet or get-together given for students. Student-athletes are prohibited from accepting valuable
consideration for participation in school athletics (anything that is not given or offered to the entire student body on the same basis that
it is given or offered to an athlete). Valuable consideration is defined as tangible or intangible property or service, including anything
that is wearable, usable or salable.
Money given to a school cannot be earmarked for any particular expense. Booster clubs may make recommendations, but cash or
other valuable consideration must be given to the school to use at its discretion.
Homemade "spirit signs" made from paper and normal supplies a student purchases for school use may be placed on students' lockers
or in their yards. Trinkets and food items cannot be attached. Yard signs made of commercial quality wood, plastic, etc., must be
purchased or made by the individual player's parents.
For purposes of competing in an athletic contest the school may provide meals for contests held away from the home school. If the
school does not pay for meals, then individual parents need to purchase their own child's food. Parents may purchase anything they
wish for their own child, but may not provide food or other items of valuable consideration for their child's teammates.
Parties for athletes are governed by the following State Executive Committee Interpretation of Section 441:
Valuable Consideration School Teams and Athletes May Accept:
1. Pre-Season. School athletic teams may be given no more than one pre-season meal, per sport, per school year, such as a fish fry,
ice cream supper, etc., provided it is approved by the school and given by a non-profit organization (usually the booster club)
before the team plays in its first contest. It may be given after a scrimmage.
2. Post-Season. School athletic teams are limited to no more than one post-season meal or banquet per sport, per school year, and it
must be given by a non-profit organization and approved by the school. Banquet favors or gifts are considered valuable
consideration and are a violation if they are given to a student-athlete at any time.
3. Other. At any time school athletic teams and athletes may be invited to and may attend functions where free admission is offered,
or where refreshments and/or meals are served, provided all students from that high school are invited to attend for the same fee
and on the same basis as the athletes or the athletic team. Athletes or athletic teams may be recognized at these functions, but
may not accept anything that is not given to all other students.
9
Valuable Consideration School Teams and Athletes Cannot Accept:
Parties provided by parents or other students strictly for an athletic team, or anything that is not given, or offered, to the entire student
body on the same basis that it is given to or offered to an athlete.
Local school district superintendents have the discretion to allow student athletes to accept, from their fellow students, small 'goodie
bags' that contain candy, cookies or other items that have no intrinsic value and are not considered valuable consideration.
Gatherings of school athletes at parents' or patrons' homes require each athlete to contribute equally to any food or refreshment. The
burden of proof will be on the athletes if these occasions are questioned. Certainly, no sports instruction or practice is permitted
during these gatherings.

Adidas410s

11-29-2007, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by jason
in my opinion - ANYBODY who sees this as a violation and thinks games will be forfeited needs to pull their head out....

it was a friend buying dinner for his friends as a thank you for their hard work....

it was not a coach or administrator buying dinner for part of the team...

good grief....

:mad: :mad:

Here's the issue...he didn't take them to McDonald's or Chili's...he took them (and their dates) out and spent $733. That's an abnormal amount of money for a HS kid to spend on dinner.

3afan

11-29-2007, 10:25 AM

this is probably not even an issue, probably not even being discussed by the UIL or anyone besides in this thread

(but I could be wrong, it happened once before a few years ago)

3afan

11-29-2007, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by 3afan
this is probably not even an issue, probably not even being discussed by the UIL or anyone besides in this thread

(but I could be wrong, it happened once before a few years ago)

If Graham ISD is pushing this to try and weasel a win then thats pretty sad ...

Adidas410s

11-29-2007, 10:27 AM

Originally posted by Tromboneking
No..that is a totally different situation. That does not involve school. The dinner was a result of success on the FB field.. big differnce than a birthday party.

Also, something else to consider. I am a parent and I know my kids don't have $700 bucks to buy all his friends dinner. Who actually paid...the kid or did mom or dad give him the $$ to pay. If that is the case that is also a violation.

Thirdly...what if Argyle does get stripped? Does Graham get another chance, or will Snyder simply get a bye? UIL needs to decide since the game is tomorrow night...

Sorry...Graham won't be playing anymore. This issue (if it IS an issue beyond message boards) won't be decided for a while. If it's a clear cut issue then the UIL would've already ruled on it.

lakers

11-29-2007, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by Adidas410s
Here's the issue...he didn't take them to McDonald's or Chili's...he took them (and their dates) out and spent $733. That's an abnormal amount of money for a HS kid to spend on dinner.

Have u seen that area. Lets just say that is just the change that he found in the dryer after he washed his clothes.

District303aPastPlayer

11-29-2007, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by Adidas410s
Here's the issue...he didn't take them to McDonald's or Chili's...he took them (and their dates) out and spent $733. That's an abnormal amount of money for a HS kid to spend on dinner.

So, is it safe to assume his parents paid for it? And if so... doesn't that mean that they provided special treatment to a select few?

Sweetwater Red

11-29-2007, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by 3afan
this is probably not even an issue, probably not even being discussed by the UIL or anyone besides in this thread

(but I could be wrong, it happened once before a few years ago)

You mean the player that is currently "under contract" with the U. of Miami.:thinking:

firstdown

11-29-2007, 10:29 AM

A few select posters like to stir the pot. I wonder why they are worried about little old Argyle anyway? However I am using this nonsense to my advantage. Last night my son asked for money for gas and a movie. I told him no, he had till wait till after the playoffs the UIL might find out.;) :D

Ranger Mom

11-29-2007, 10:29 AM

If the Hutto got away with it, after the kid said in his interview that local eating establishments gave them "free food" then I think this will be a non-issue too!

He simply came back and said he was "misquoted"...case closed!!!

lakers

11-29-2007, 10:31 AM

OMG this is getting worse then the gossip of old men that gather at whataburger every morning to make them feel like they are doing something productive in their life.

tigerbyheart

11-29-2007, 10:31 AM

If it is a rule, it is stupid... UIL needs to worry more about teams recruiting atheletes than a kid showing appreciation for his teammates....Does this mean if my son and his friend (who happens to play football) goes to lunch and my son pays for his meal or buys him a coke, then this is in violation of rules???

It's just rediculous...

firstdown

11-29-2007, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by 3afan
If Graham ISD is pushing this to try and weasel a win then thats pretty sad ...

no a Clyde poster. However the same story was in the Denton news paper.

lakers

11-29-2007, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by firstdown
no a Clyde poster. However the same story was in the Denton news paper.

No Clyde posters dont care. I am a Clyde poster and I see nothing wrong with it.

firstdown

11-29-2007, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by lakers
No he is not a Clyde poster. I am a Clyde poster and I see nothing wrong with it.

The first time I saw this on the downlow was when Tecknoredneck posted it last week in a different thread. If he is not from Clyde I am sorry.

LH Panther Mom

11-29-2007, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by Snyder_TigerFan
When I was 16-18 years old, I wish I would have had a spare $733.
Heck, I'd like to have a spare $733 now. :(

LH Panther Mom

11-29-2007, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by firstdown
no a Clyde poster. However the same story was in the Denton news paper.
Celina person posted the original story from the paper....

crzyjournalist03

11-29-2007, 10:37 AM

I don't know why we can't believe that the kid had $733...I knew plenty of kids in high school who had saved money and had well more than that in their accounts...kids put down payments on their vehicles at $2000-$3000. If the kid had the money and this is what he wanted to spend it on, more power to him.

I seem to notice that the people who feel this is a violation are generally people who have a rooting interest for a team or district that would benefit from Argyle's demise.

IMO, any team that would want to win on an off-field rule and be declared winner by forfeit is just looking for a cheap way to feel better about themselves, because all you have to do is watch the *%^& game. If your team couldn't win the battle on the field, you lost and you need to get over it.

Tromboneking

11-29-2007, 10:38 AM

Ok...this is getting out of hand...

1. No, Graham is not doing this. It was posted on a previous thread on this board. I was simply asking what would happen.

2. Give your kid gas money for pete's sake...unless he is going to buy gas for teammates. hehe.

3. The situation is this...if he did break rules...he broke rules. If you run a red light and then tell the cops "Oh, I didn't see it", you still broke the law and will get a ticket.

My other question is this...the coaches had to know that they were gonna do this. If they know the rules, (and they should) why didn't stop them?

I truly don't want anything to be done with Argyle. They are a great team...but I also know rules are rules...

Snyder_TigerFan

11-29-2007, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Heck, I'd like to have a spare $733 now. :(

True.:D

firstdown

11-29-2007, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Celina person posted the original story from the paper....

Thank you LHPM I stand corrected. Sorry Teckno and Clyde posters I was wrong again.

crzyjournalist03

11-29-2007, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by tigerbyheart
If it is a rule, it is stupid... UIL needs to worry more about teams recruiting atheletes than a kid showing appreciation for his teammates....Does this mean if my son and his friend (who happens to play football) goes to lunch and my son pays for his meal or buys him a coke, then this is in violation of rules???

It's just rediculous...

exactly...

this kid didn't offer to buy meals for the ENTIRE football team...it was his group of friends on the team.

pirate4state

11-29-2007, 10:42 AM

I wonder if this would be a story if they just went down to Whataburger and all got a #1??? :rolleyes:

This is stupid! UIL will take FOREVER to straigten this out, if it's even on their radar!

I think it's funny that "rules are rules" is being thrown around, but the minute someone breaks a rule on THIS board they aren't proclaiming that "rules are rules". ;)

lakers

11-29-2007, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by firstdown
The first time I saw this on the downlow was when Tecknoredneck posted it last week in a different thread. If he is not from Clyde I am sorry. It alright. ;) He seems to be from Snyder and I guess he is worried about this weeks game against Argyle.

crzyjournalist03

11-29-2007, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by pirate4state
I wonder if this would be a story if they just went down to Whataburger and all got a #1??? :rolleyes:

This is stupid! UIL will take FOREVER to straigten this out, if it's even on their radar!

I think it's funny that "rules are rules" is being thrown around, but the minute someone breaks a rule on THIS board they aren't proclaiming that "rules are rules". ;)

:clap: :clap: :clap:

P4S just laid down some serious smack!!!

lakers

11-29-2007, 10:46 AM

Alright lets just say that who ever has a problem with it must be from Graham or Snyder. Or maybe from Austin (seem to be pretty liberal around that area).:thinking:

Snyder_TigerFan

11-29-2007, 10:47 AM

DaHop72

11-29-2007, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by lakers
Alright lets just say that who ever has a problem with it must be from Graham or Snyder. Or maybe from Austin (seem to be pretty liberal around that area).:thinking: Wow, your last two post about Snyder are really out there. Why would the Tigers be concerned about this. They have been preparing for the Argyle Eagles all week, I don't think on Thursday afternoon they would want to find out they were playing Graham.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

lakers

11-29-2007, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by Snyder_TigerFan
Only problem I have is not having a spare $733 myself.;)

Same here. Heck i could use an extra ten. Every dime counts when ur in college.

44INAROW

11-29-2007, 10:51 AM

lakers

11-29-2007, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by DaHop72
Wow, your last two post about Snyder are really out there. Why would the Tigers be concerned about this. They have been preparing for the Argyle Eagles all week, I don't think on Thursday afternoon they would want to find out they were playing Graham.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Yeah no kidding... I am a little sleepy though, I think I am goin back to bed.

Ranger Mom

11-29-2007, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by pirate4state
I wonder if this would be a story if they just went down to Whataburger and all got a #1??? :rolleyes:

This is stupid! UIL will take FOREVER to straigten this out, if it's even on their radar!

I think it's funny that "rules are rules" is being thrown around, but the minute someone breaks a rule on THIS board they aren't proclaiming that "rules are rules". ;)

Amen Sista!!

Then.... the rules are stupid, inconsistent, made to be broken and show favoritism!!:rolleyes:

Damned if you and damned if ya don't!!

DaHop72

11-29-2007, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by pirate4state
I wonder if this would be a story if they just went down to Whataburger and all got a #1??? :rolleyes:

This is stupid! UIL will take FOREVER to straigten this out, if it's even on their radar!

I think it's funny that "rules are rules" is being thrown around, but the minute someone breaks a rule on THIS board they aren't proclaiming that "rules are rules". ;) Probably not, now if they were to all get the #2 Combo it would be a different story.:p :p

Sweetwater Red

11-29-2007, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by DaHop72
Probably not, now if they were to all get the #2 Combo it would be a different story.:p :p

Whatasized with a dollar a strip bacon added? The UIL would be telling
Graham to put their pads on.:thinking: :devil:

BullFrog Dad

11-29-2007, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by pirate4state
I wonder if this would be a story if they just went down to Whataburger and all got a #1??? :rolleyes:

Yes, If they had their meals 'Whatasized' it would be a big deal.

lion75

11-29-2007, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by pirate4state
I wonder if this would be a story if they just went down to Whataburger and all got a #1??? :rolleyes:

Not if it was Celina because they would look like employees with their orange uniforms.

DU_stud04

11-29-2007, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by lion75
Not if it was Celina because they would look like employees with their orange uniforms. :clap: :clap: :clap:

BMOC

11-29-2007, 12:28 PM

LMAO!!:clap: :clap:

keenoace

11-29-2007, 12:33 PM

Who cares????? Well see the Tigers and eagles in Graham tomorrow nite. Who's the home team by the way?

Technoredneck

11-29-2007, 12:37 PM

Argyle has the home side

buff4life

11-29-2007, 12:43 PM

SNYDER325TIGERS

11-29-2007, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by firstdown
It had no effect on any games outcome. Give it a break and quit stirring the pot. It is not, I repeat not a violation.

I wasn't trying to stir the pot...I was just trying to find out the real story. Not piss anyone off

SNYDER325TIGERS

11-29-2007, 12:52 PM

I couldn't see any big deal in it myself, I thought maybe I was wrong and decided to just ask... It was the kids money so he can do whatever he wants with it, thats the way I see it

SNYDER325TIGERS

11-29-2007, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by 3afan
If Graham ISD is pushing this to try and weasel a win then thats pretty sad ...

I dout they would do that, they seen to have more class than that.

crzyjournalist03

11-29-2007, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by SNYDER325TIGERS
I dout they would do that, they seen to have more class than that.

you're right...that's totally a Sweetwater thing to do...

DaHop72

11-29-2007, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
you're right...that's totally a Sweetwater thing to do... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

bigron15

11-29-2007, 02:08 PM

sweetwater would never do such a thing!!!

pirate4state

11-29-2007, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by DaHop72
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: tougher skin :D :D :D

DaHop72

11-29-2007, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by pirate4state
tougher skin :D :D :D I've got it, you have to when you take up for two towns.:mad: :D

But there are a couple of posters from both towns that are making it hard. And "You're killing me Smalls.":devil:

pirate4state

11-29-2007, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by DaHop72
I've got it, you have to when you take up for two towns.:mad: :D

But there are a couple of posters from both towns that are making it hard. And "You're killing me Smalls.":devil:

Well, it's real simple - don't take up for two towns! :p :kiss:

DUKE22

11-29-2007, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by firstdown
A few select posters like to stir the pot. I wonder why they are worried about little old Argyle anyway? However I am using this nonsense to my advantage. Last night my son asked for money for gas and a movie. I told him no, he had till wait till after the playoffs the UIL might find out.;) :D This is just silly. It has no impact on a game or games. I dont know if it is a violation, but I honestly hope nothing happens as far as punishment. Its a distraction that needs to dropped, and let the people handle it that should.

DaHop72

11-29-2007, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by DUKE22
This is just silly. It has no impact on a game or games. I dont know if it is a violation, but I honestly hope nothing happens as far as punishment. Its a distraction that needs to dropped, and let the people handle it that should. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Ranger Mom

11-29-2007, 02:29 PM

Honestly....I wouldn't want anything to happen to them, IF I was Graham.

Who would want to be back in the running by default??

The better team won and that is who Snyder is playing.

I honestly think this is a non-issue as far as the UIL is concerned!!

DaHop72

11-29-2007, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by pirate4state
Well, it's real simple - don't take up for two towns! :p :kiss: Well I would, but good gosh you've read enough of some of their post to know that some of them need some serious help.:devil: :devil:

Stownhorse

11-29-2007, 03:15 PM

http://www.uil.utexas.edu/athletics/rules/pdf/07_08_non_school_part.pdf

Valuable Consideration School Teams and Athletes May Accept:
1. Pre-Season. School athletic teams may be given no more than one pre-season meal, per sport, per school year, such as a fish fry,
ice cream supper, etc., provided it is approved by the school and given by a non-profit organization (usually the booster club)
before the team plays in its first contest. It may be given after a scrimmage.
2. Post-Season. School athletic teams are limited to no more than one post-season meal or banquet per sport, per school year, and it
must be given by a non-profit organization and approved by the school. Banquet favors or gifts are considered valuable
consideration and are a violation if they are given to a student-athlete at any time.
3. Other. At any time school athletic teams and athletes may be invited to and may attend functions where free admission is offered,
or where refreshments and/or meals are served, provided all students from that high school are invited to attend for the same fee
and on the same basis as the athletes or the athletic team. Athletes or athletic teams may be recognized at these functions, but
may not accept anything that is not given to all other students.

Valuable Consideration School Teams and Athletes Cannot Accept:
Parties provided by parents or other students strictly for an athletic team, or anything that is not given, or offered, to the entire student
body on the same basis that it is given to or offered to an athlete.
Local school district superintendents have the discretion to allow student athletes to accept, from their fellow students, small 'goodie
bags' that contain candy, cookies or other items that have no intrinsic value and are not considered valuable consideration.
Gatherings of school athletes at parents' or patrons' homes require each athlete to contribute equally to any food or refreshment. The
burden of proof will be on the athletes if these occasions are questioned. Certainly, no sports instruction or practice is permitted
during these gatherings.

STANG RED

11-29-2007, 03:32 PM

By the UIL rules stated below, it seems very clear cut to me that this was indeed a violation. Doesnt matter whether it is stupid, had any impact on any games or anything else. This only requires simple reading comprehension to understand. Just read the rules as they are written and keep your personal feelings out of it.
Now read away:

2. Post-Season. School athletic teams are limited to no more than one post-season meal or banquet per sport, per school year, and it
must be given by a non-profit organization and approved by the school. Banquet favors or gifts are considered valuable
consideration and are a violation if they are given to a student-athlete at any time.
3. Other. At any time school athletic teams and athletes may be invited to and may attend functions where free admission is offered,
or where refreshments and/or meals are served, provided all students from that high school are invited to attend for the same fee
and on the same basis as the athletes or the athletic team. Athletes or athletic teams may be recognized at these functions, but
may not accept anything that is not given to all other students.
9
Valuable Consideration School Teams and Athletes Cannot Accept:
Parties provided by parents or other students strictly for an athletic team, or anything that is not given, or offered, to the entire student
body on the same basis that it is given to or offered to an athlete.
Local school district superintendents have the discretion to allow student athletes to accept, from their fellow students, small 'goodie
bags' that contain candy, cookies or other items that have no intrinsic value and are not considered valuable consideration.
Gatherings of school athletes at parents' or patrons' homes require each athlete to contribute equally to any food or refreshment. The
burden of proof will be on the athletes if these occasions are questioned. Certainly, no sports instruction or practice is permitted
during these gatherings.

Im not saying the UIL should or will do anything about this incident, but by the way the rules are written and how they are written, I dont see how anyone could conclude that it is not a clear cut violation. If you dont like it, then get the rules changed! And if the rules arent going to be inforced, then throw the rule book out completely. Seems pretty simple to me!

Personally, I have no problem with what the kid did. But it is clear to me, It IS a clear cut violation.

michaelp23

11-29-2007, 04:10 PM

The whole thing is stupid. The UIL can really suck the fun out of high school sports with their unending rules. If they do anything about this situation, I'd be very upset. A booster buying kids a car, dvd player, Ipod, etc. is obviously a bad thing. That should be the spirit of the rule. But if the quarterback or running back wants to buy his linemen a steak, so what!

I know what the rules say, I just don't know how we ever let the UIL get so anal. By the way, I was a lineman in high school and I love a good steak!;)

crzyjournalist03

11-29-2007, 04:12 PM

I see rules against parents and that an administrator may deny the goody bags from students, but I have yet to see where it says that one student may not pay for another students' meal. It states that parents may not pay for another students' meal, but there's no rule against a student paying for another student's meal if the administrator does not deny the right.

Sweetwater Red

11-29-2007, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by michaelp23

By the way, I was a lineman in high school and I love a good steak!;)

Did a Wylie RB buy you a steak?:thinking:

:eek: :eek: :eek:

michaelp23

11-29-2007, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by Sweetwater Red
Did a Wylie RB buy you a steak?:thinking:

:eek: :eek: :eek:

You folks in Sweetwater would love it if I said yes, wouldn't you?! :hand:

But no, we all met at Catfish Corner Thursday Nights before the game and we all payed for our own! Sorry!:bigcry:

Runnin Panther

11-29-2007, 04:19 PM

I’m not sure on all the rules but I don’t think it is as clear cut as you’re stating.

For one is says
“Parties provided by parents or other students strictly for an athletic team, or anything that is not given, or offered, to the entire student body.”

It wasn’t the whole athletic team and they brought dates that were not on the football team.

And furthermore can’t the kid just say that he wanted to treat his friends to a night out. How could UIL disprove that.

Snyder_TigerFan

11-29-2007, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by michaelp23
The whole thing is stupid.

Originally posted by pirate4state
This is stupid!

Originally posted by tigerbyheart
If it is a rule, it is stupid...

Originally posted by wyliegrad04
this is stupid ...

Got it!:)

Sweetwater Red

11-29-2007, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by michaelp23
You folks in Sweetwater would love it if I said yes, wouldn't you?! :hand:

But no, we all met at Catfish Corner Thursday Nights before the game and we all payed for our own! Sorry!:bigcry:

Damn! I thought I was on to something!:D :devil:

pirate4state

11-29-2007, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by Sweetwater Red
Damn! I thought I was on to something!:D :devil:

LOL

Runnin Panther

11-29-2007, 04:24 PM

Did I mention this is stupid!

Stownhorse

11-29-2007, 04:28 PM

Runnin Panther

11-29-2007, 04:40 PM

Originally posted by Stownhorse
He was treating his team to a dinner for blocking for him. Stated in the first post. I he said other wise, wouldnt he be lying?

Who did he say this to, where you there did you hear it? I think UIL would have a hard time coming to definite decision here. Seems to me like it is all hear say and speculation and the UIL wouldn’t want to waste their time or money on something so flimsy.

Snydertigersrul

11-29-2007, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by Runnin Panther
Who did he say this to, where you there did you hear it? I think UIL would have a hard time coming to definite decision here. Seems to me like it is all hear say and speculation and the UIL wouldn’t want to waste their time or money on something so flimsy.

Read the Denton newspaper on line and the story when he told that to the reporter.

STANG RED

11-29-2007, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by Runnin Panther
I’m not sure on all the rules but I don’t think it is as clear cut as you’re stating.

For one is says
“Parties provided by parents or other students strictly for an athletic team, or anything that is not given, or offered, to the entire student body.”

It wasn’t the whole athletic team and they brought dates that were not on the football team.

And furthermore can’t the kid just say that he wanted to treat his friends to a night out. How could UIL disprove that.

As long as their dates included the rest of the entire student body, then you are correct, there was no violation.

Problem is, he already stated he was rewarding his offensive line for helping him reach 1000 yards.

Again, take your biases and emotions out if it and simply read the rules as they are written. I think many of the UIL's rules are silly and/or stupid. But they are what they are, until somebody changes them.
The UIL website has all the email addresses and phone numbers of everyone on the rules commitee. Its a very easy process to get in touch with any of them to air your concerns. Who knows, it might even get something done. One thing is for sure; complaining about them on this message board, will accomplish nothing.

Snydertigersrul

11-29-2007, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by STANG RED
As long as their dates included the rest of the entire student body, then you are correct, there was no violation.

Problem is, he already stated he was rewarding his offensive line for helping him reach 1000 yards.

Again, take your biases and emotions out if it and simply read the rules as they are written. I think many of the UIL's rules are silly and/or stupid. But they are what they are, until somebody changes them.
The UIL website has all the email addresses and phone numbers of everyone on the rules commitee. Its a very easy process to get in touch with any of them to air your concerns. Who knows, it might even get something done. One thing is for sure; complaining about them on this message board, will accomplish nothing.

I agreed with Stang Red (boy, that's scarcy). Let's talk about the game, not something petty like this that didn't affect the previous game. The worst case scenario would be players could lose elligiblity.

SNYDER325TIGERS

11-29-2007, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
you're right...that's totally a Sweetwater thing to do...

I can't think of any team that would do that

Ranger Mom

11-29-2007, 04:52 PM

Do I think the rules, as stated by the UIL were broken?? Yes I do!!

Do I think anything will be done about it? No, I don't.

Do I feel like we are going in circles here? Yes, I do!!

http://www.christiananime.net/images/smilies/dizzy.gif http://www.christiananime.net/images/smilies/dizzy.gif

Snydertigersrul

11-29-2007, 04:54 PM

SNYDER325TIGERS

11-29-2007, 04:54 PM

Anyways, I got what I wanted to know pretty much...

From what I can tell from reading the UIL rules, yes it was a violation but something I thing should be removed from the rule book, cause that rule is stupid. I hope the UIL dosen't take action in anything...

It was just like taking his friends out to dinner with their dates, useing his own cash...no big deal.

pirate4state

11-29-2007, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by Snydertigersrul
I agreed with Stang Red (boy, that's scarcy). Let's talk about the game, not something petty like this that didn't affect the previous game. The worst case scenario would be players could lose elligiblity.

I'm sure there is a thread about the game somewhere on this message board. If you don't want to talk about the "ordeal" don't. :)

Snydertigersrul

11-29-2007, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by SNYDER325TIGERS
Anyways, I got what I wanted to know pretty much...

From what I can tell from reading the UIL rules, yes it was a violation but something I thing should be removed from the rule book, cause that rule is stupid. I hope the UIL dosen't take action in anything...

It was just like taking his friends out to dinner with their dates, useing his own cash...no big deal.

Yea, look like you again were trying to stir things up.

Runnin Panther

11-29-2007, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by STANG RED
As long as their dates included the rest of the entire student body, then you are correct, there was no violation.

Problem is, he already stated he was rewarding his offensive line for helping him reach 1000 yards.

Again, take your biases and emotions out if it and simply read the rules as they are written. I think many of the UIL's rules are silly and/or stupid. But they are what they are, until somebody changes them.
The UIL website has all the email addresses and phone numbers of everyone on the rules commitee. Its a very easy process to get in touch with any of them to air your concerns. Who knows, it might even get something done. One thing is for sure; complaining about them on this message board, will accomplish nothing.

Actually I have no dog in this fight, just contributing to a conversation. If he said it to a reporter he would have a hard time denying it.

The thing that gets me is the rules for non-athletic events are so loose. For example I think a band member can receive a reward/gift for monetary value for an accomplishment in band. Somehow it seems unequal.

I know at LH we are very careful not to break the rules, we don’t want our school or kids to suffer from something silly like this.

SNYDER325TIGERS

11-29-2007, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by Snydertigersrul
Yea, look like you again were trying to stir things up.

How did it look like I was trying to stir things up?

I was just wondering what the deal actually was, thats it.

Snyder_TigerFan

11-29-2007, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by Snydertigersrul
Yea, look like you again were trying to stir things up.
That's funny.:rolleyes:

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/images/smilies/potkettle.gif

pirate4state

11-29-2007, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by Snyder_TigerFan
That's funny.:rolleyes:

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/images/smilies/potkettle.gif

MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

SNYDER325TIGERS

11-29-2007, 05:04 PM

STANG RED

11-29-2007, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by Runnin Panther
Actually I have no dog in this fight, just contributing to a conversation. If he said it to a reporter he would have a hard time denying it.

The thing that gets me is the rules for non-athletic events are so loose. For example I think a band member can receive a reward/gift for monetary value for an accomplishment in band. Somehow it seems unequal.

I know at LH we are very careful not to break the rules, we don’t want our school or kids to suffer from something silly like this.

Yeah, unfortunatley a kid can easily and innocentley violate a UIL rule without even knowing it. After all, how many high school kids are going to be well versed in the UIL rule book? Not many I'm sure. However all high school coaches should be very well versed in these rules, and should make every attempt to make their players and their parents aware of how to avoid possible violations. For that matter, parents of kids competing should take it upon themselves to read and understand the rules their child is playing under.
When mine hit high school is when I started researching the UIL rules. And by doing so was able to avoid several possible violations that could have occured had I not done the research. I even called the UIL one time to get a clarification on a rule I didnt understand. They were very helpful, and even sent me a letter with a full explanation of the rule and it's intent. I didnt fully agree with it, but at least I fully understood it.

Ranger Mom

11-29-2007, 05:21 PM

I think the most shocking thing in this story is that the kid had $733 to drop on dinner....whether it was his money or his parents.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

michaelp23

11-29-2007, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by STANG RED
Yeah, unfortunatley a kid can easily and innocentley violate a UIL rule without even knowing it. After all, how many high school kids are going to be well versed in the UIL rule book? Not many I'm sure. However all high school coaches should be very well versed in these rules, and should make every attempt to make their players and their parents aware of how to avoid possible violations. For that matter, parents of kids competing should take it upon themselves to read and understand the rules their child is playing under.
When mine hit high school is when I started researching the UIL rules. And by doing so was able to avoid several possible violations that could have occured had I not done the research. I even called the UIL one time to get a clarification on a rule I didnt understand. They were very helpful, and even sent me a letter with a full explanation of the rule and it's intent.

Point is, the "intent" of the rule shouldn't be for situations like this, if it even is. The UIL has real problems to worry about, like Wylie lying on our enrollment numbers every two years.....:mad:

SNYDER325TIGERS

11-29-2007, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
I think the most shocking thing in this story is that the kid had $733 to drop on dinner....whether it was his money or his parents.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Yuh thats a pretty good chunk of cash to drop down for dinner...hell it better of been good!:D

I ate at a Silverfox in Frisco I think it was with my grandparents...but I didn't pay for it, I don't know how much it cost either:thinking:

STANG RED

11-29-2007, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by michaelp23
Point is, the "intent" of the rule shouldn't be for situations like this, if it even is. The UIL has real problems to worry about, like Wylie lying on our enrollment numbers every two years.....:mad:

LOL, people have argued about the Wylie enrollment numbers for years. I even thought there was something fishy going on at one time. But when I finally learned how the process was actually done, I now know it is impossible for a school to manipulate their enrollment numbers to stay in or out of any classification. But I also know it will always be argued every two years by those that dont understand how it works, and arent interested in learning the process. Ignorance is bliss I guess.:nerd:

Emerson1

11-29-2007, 05:31 PM

Emerson1

11-29-2007, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by Adidas410s
Here's the issue...he didn't take them to McDonald's or Chili's...he took them (and their dates) out and spent $733. That's an abnormal amount of money for a HS kid to spend on dinner.
Well if he paid for dates to then he invited people who were not just on the football team.

Who-dun-it!!?

11-29-2007, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by District303aPastPlayer
okay, those friends happen to be athletes, and he is giving preferential treatment to only a select few athletes... which, by definition, is a violation of UIL rules...

preferential treatment?
I was a high school catcher and the # 1 pitcher was my best friend. I bought his dinner, and he bought mine several times. There were several guys on my team I was friends with, and a few I couldn't stand. I see no problem here. But I am curious where a 17 year old gets 733.00 to blow.

crzyjournalist03

11-29-2007, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by Who-dun-it!!?
preferential treatment?
I was a high school catcher and the # 1 pitcher was my best friend. I bought his dinner, and he bought mine several times. There were several guys on my team I was friends with, and a few I couldn't stand. I see no problem here. But I am curious where a 17 year old gets 733.00 to blow.

word has it that he bought three Nintendo Wiis and sold them on Ebay! ;) :D

alaskacat

11-29-2007, 10:57 PM

Originally posted by SNYDER325TIGERS
I couldn't see any big deal in it myself, I thought maybe I was wrong and decided to just ask... It was the kids money so he can do whatever he wants with it, thats the way I see it

I would say it was moneywell spent..it is always better totreat those big burly guys pretty good...that way they will protect your butt the rest of the year...call it a cheap insurance policy:)

alaskacat

11-29-2007, 11:03 PM

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
Do I think the rules, as stated by the UIL were broken?? Yes I do!!

Do I think anything will be done about it? No, I don't.

Do I feel like we are going in circles here? Yes, I do!!

http://www.christiananime.net/images/smilies/dizzy.gif http://www.christiananime.net/images/smilies/dizzy.gif
This rule is broken on a weekly basis by almost every team in Texas....Dinner at nice place after wins, pre game breakfasts ...come on, this whole thing is BS

I thinkSnyder is just looking for a way out so they dont have to play the game:)

They're runnin scared
:p

tdandchuckie

11-29-2007, 11:09 PM

they are going to be runnin alright but it wont be the tigers who are scared

Emerson1

11-29-2007, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by Who-dun-it!!?
preferential treatment?
I was a high school catcher and the # 1 pitcher was my best friend. I bought his dinner, and he bought mine several times. There were several guys on my team I was friends with, and a few I couldn't stand. I see no problem here. But I am curious where a 17 year old gets 733.00 to blow.
Not that hard. If he worked January - July 5 days a week 6 hours a day at $9 an hour that is $6480 before taxes. Even at $7.50 that's 5400. How do you think xbox360s, down payments on cars and stuff are done?

DaHop72

11-29-2007, 11:47 PM

Originally posted by alaskacat
This rule is broken on a weekly basis by almost every team in Texas....Dinner at nice place after wins, pre game breakfasts ...come on, this whole thing is BS

I thinkSnyder is just looking for a way out so they dont have to play the game:)

They're runnin scared
:p :dispntd: :dispntd: :dispntd: :dispntd:

bigron15

11-29-2007, 11:48 PM

i would have made them eat off the dollar menu:D

Stownhorse

11-30-2007, 12:24 AM

I got my drank and my 2 step, my drank and my 2 step

SNYDER325TIGERS

11-30-2007, 12:50 AM

Well anyway the game is tomarrow and the UIL must not care about that dumb rule and thats good....i've been looking forward to this game all week, everyone travel and return home safley. Good luck to Argyle

HippoBaseball05

11-30-2007, 01:56 AM

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
If the Hutto got away with it, after the kid said in his interview that local eating establishments gave them "free food" then I think this will be a non-issue too!

He simply came back and said he was "misquoted"...case closed!!!

Jeremy Kerley never said any free food was given to any of the players of the 2005 team. The Statesman didn't quote him as saying so. They mistakenly 'paraphrased' what they THOUGHT he was saying in regards to feeling like a celebrity in town when we knocked out the previously unbeaten 12-0 Cameron team.

It wouldn't have even been an issue until the Cameron coach saw an opportunity, ( a weak one at that) to try and overturn the 21 point loss.

Dr. Breithaupt personally came to our school and investigated it. He discovered before the end of the day that it was incorrect.

Ranger Mom

11-30-2007, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by HippoBaseball05
Jeremy Kerley never said any free food was given to any of the players of the 2005 team. The Statesman didn't quote him as saying so. They mistakenly 'paraphrased' what they THOUGHT he was saying in regards to feeling like a celebrity in town when we knocked out the previously unbeaten 12-0 Cameron team.

It wouldn't have even been an issue until the Cameron coach saw an opportunity, ( a weak one at that) to try and overturn the 21 point loss.

Dr. Breithaupt personally came to our school and investigated it. He discovered before the end of the day that it was incorrect.

Well...whatever he said, or didn't say, or paraphrased, or misquoted, blah, blah, blah....

I DID make a point somewhere in that statement!!