NCAA Coaching Carousel (merged)

[big daddy russ]

...has started to spin. Who goes where?

Fired/Resigned/Retired
Lloyd Carr, Michigan
Dennis Franchione, TAMU
Ed Orgeron, Ole Miss (one of the five best recruiters in the nation)
Bill Callahan, Nebraska
Houston Nutt, Arkansas
Phil Bennett, SMU (great defensive mind)
Guy Morriss, Baylor

The hot seat's on fire
Karl Dorrell, UCLA
Greg Robinson, Syracuse (great recruiter, Great defensive mind)


Big names "available"
Steve Spurrier, South Carolina
Jeff Tedford, Cal
Les Miles, LSU (but only to Michigan)
Bo Pelini, LSU (DC)
Tommy Tuberville, Auburn
Jimbo Fisher, Florida State (OC)
Butch Davis, North Carolina
Paul Johnson, Navy
Brian Kelly, Cincy
Mike Leach, Texas Tech (Lots of rumors surrounding the potential UCLA job and Leach is a California boy.)

Top jobs currently available
1. TAMU
2. Nebraska
3a. Arkansas (depending on how much the alums are willing to pony up. Easily #3 over MU if they're willing to give their next coach $2.5 million-plus)
3b. Michigan (Next coach, if they go after a big name, will surely demand better facilities to help lure all those Ohio recruits.)
5. Ole Miss
6. Baylor
7. SMU



Anyone I'm leaving off?

[eagles_victory]

IMO there is no way that Texas A&M is a better job then Michigan. Russ i respect ur opinions and your right on a lot of stuff but I think you drink some aggie kool-aid pretty often looking at some of your post

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
IMO there is no way that Texas A&M is a better job then Michigan. Russ i respect ur opinions and your right on a lot of stuff but I think you drink some aggie kool-aid pretty often looking at some of your post
Better program? Definitely. They're probably one of the five best programs in the nation (ND, Bama, MU, Nebraska, USC).

Better job? No way in the world.

There's a huge difference between the two. The facilities in Ann Arbor are atrocious. At the bottom of the heap in the Big Ten. Lloyd Carr has been screaming for major upgrades since they won the NC about a decade ago, but they never came. The only reason MU still brings in the talent they get is because they're a consistent top-ten team.

No big-time coach will come to Ann Arbor without the promise of an upgrade in facilities. That's how TAMU lured Fran away from the second best PROGRAM in the nation. They promised him the facilities they wouldn't give to Slocum, and look at A&M now. The best facilities in the Big XII.

There's a lot more that goes into a job than what the average fan sees. Michigan RIGHT NOW is at best a distant third to TAMU and Nebraska, but could still conceivably land a big coach depending on that coach's ties to the university (Les Miles) or the promises for upgrades.

If there's any sort of fall-off with the program next year, MU will begin to steadily decline in terms of recruits. They're not exactly a recruiting hotbed and rely on out-of-state talent (mainly from Ohio) to keep their program running. The only thing they have going for them is the fact that they're highly ranked and are winning right now. If that starts to slip and the facilities don't improve, so will the talent level. 18-year-olds don't care about anything except what you offer right now. If they really cared about tradition as much as the average fan thinks they do, then Alabama would be recruiting much better than Florida. But then again, most people these days don't realize that UF just recently (and by recently, I mean in the last year) ascended into the bottom of the elite programs. If Ray Graves in the 60's and then Steve Spurrier in the 90's had never happened, they'd still be roughly the equivalent of Mississippi State.

This board definitely has a UT flavor, and it's completely understandable. They're a top-ten all-time program at the top of the college football world right now, and they are the best job in the nation. Not the best program (which would be Notre Dame), but definitely the best job. On the flip side, TAMU hasn't been a top-tier program in nearly a decade and struggle with six- and seven-win seasons on a yearly basis.

Because of the recent (and historical) dominance of UT and the struggles in College Station, TAMU gets pushed to the back burner on everything. They're very underrated on this board. So anytime someone, let's say someone like AggieJohn or Russell Smith, says that Florida didn't eclipse TAMU as a program until their NC last year, of course everyone's going to doubt it. Until you point out the fact that UF only has one more national title, three fewer undefeated seasons, fewer all-time wins, and 11 fewer conference titles. And those NC's are only since 1936, when the era of the Associated Press Poll Champions started. That doesn't include TAMU's "National Title" in 1919 before the AP era because everything was so flawed back then.

A comparison of programs All-time (with adjustments for the AP era in parentheses)
................................TAMU....UF
All-Time Wins...........648.......618 (before the start of this season)
Bowl Games.............29.........34
Bowl Wins................13.........16
Top-tier Bowls..........14.........12 (Cotton Bowls after the BCS era don't count as they were replaced in the top tier by the Fiesta Bowl)
Top-tier Bowl Wins...5...........5
Top-25 finishes........(23)........(25)
Top-10 finishes........(11)........(13)
Undefeated Seasons.9 (3)....1 (none since the AP Poll)
Conference Titles.....18.........7
National Titles..........2 (1)......2 (2)
Heisman Winners.....1...........2
Other Nat'l Awards...3...........8

The reason I chased that hare is to show that nobody on this board would've put TAMU in there with UF until you look at the facts. If you're comparing TAMU to UT, it'll never stack up, and that's why everyone on the board looks down on the Ags so much. It's not that I drink the maroon Kool Aid, it's that I'm actually unbiased when I look at this stuff.

The Michigan job is a place a coach goes to die if they can't produce results. And it's not because of the pressures that coach faces, it's because of the obstacles. Two things coaches know are that 18-year-olds...

1. Want to tell all their friends back home that they play for an elite program. Unfortunately, to all those 18-year-olds out there, Florida is every bit the program UT is, and a better program than Bama, Nebraska, and Notre Dame. It's "what have you done for me lately" in the mind of a teenager because they don't have a frame of reference until they're about 14 or 15 years old.

2. Want to live the high life while they're there.

It's hard to recruit top-level Ohio kids to Michigan when you don't have anything to offer. The farther your program falls, the less you have to offer because you can't offer them great facilities. The only thing you can offer them is a great atmosphere.

These kids get two of those three things at A&M (facilities and atmosphere), and that's why the Ags typically put together top-15, or even top ten recruiting classes, when the product on the field hasn't been as good.

That's why TAMU's a much better job than Michigan. On top of that, they have more alumni support, which means more money. That's not a biased opinion at all to say that it's a better program. Granted, TAMU's near-$30 million annual budget isn't much compared to the nearly $50 million UT runs with, but it's still the third-largest budget in the nation.

Michigan can pay as well as TAMU, but that and the fact that you're coaching at Michigan are about the only things they can offer. Savvy coaches get to the top of the pile for a reason, and they see through the "coaching at Michigan" argument. Michigan runs behind A&M in these main things, and unless a few of those change, it won't eclipse A&M as a job anytime soon:

1. Recruiting Base
2. Athletic Facilities
3. Alumni Support
4. Athletic Budget

There's absolutely no reason that Michigan would be considered a better job than A&M other than the fact that you're coaching at Michigan.


Going back to drinking the Aggie Kool-Aid, I'm assuming you were going back to the whole "Martellus Bennett is the best TE in the nation" thing I said, right? If you watched the game yesterday, can you now see why Martellus Bennett is light years ahead of Finley and is regarded not only by me, but also by every NFL scout in the nation, as the best TE out there?

[20FAN07]

how do you respond to that......lol, good stuff

[eagles_victory]

I think your putting way too much stock in the facilities. Martellus barely has over 100 catches in 3 years. He hasnt produced much at all at A&M. Yea he had a better game then Finley but you act like he was the star of the game when he didnt play that great. Facilities dont mean anything when your not using them to build a winning team.

[big daddy russ]

1. I was there. Martellus dominated. End of story. He may not have had 200 yards and three TD's, but that's not how he was used and it's not how he's been used throughout his career. Is Boomer Esiason a better QB than Troy Aikman because he has more yards? I'm sorry, ev, I usually respect your arguments, but that's an extremely weak one.

2. How am I putting too much stock into the facilities? That's the single largest thing (outside of pay) that coaches look at. You can't put too much stock into facilities. It's impossible. That's what Mack demanded when he came to Austin, that's what Stoops demanded up in Oklahoma, that's what Pete Carroll demanded to stay in LA. It's the second-largest factor involved into the coaching search, and if you really think that Michigan is a better job because it's a better program, then you really don't know what draws coaches to certain spots. It's not the program, it's the committment to the program. Will that coach have a chance to succeed there? Will the alumni support him? Will he have the chance to get the talent he wants? When Steve Spurrier left Duke, he did so because Florida offered him tons of resources in a recruiting hotbed. He knew that he'd be given every chance to succeed. When Bob Stoops left Spurrier's side, he went somewhere that he knew he'd have a shot because the OU boosters were that committed to keeping the program at the top of the national scene and giving him a chance to recruit all those Texas kids.

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
1. I was there. Martellus dominated. End of story. He may not have had 200 yards and three TD's, but that's not how he was used and it's not how he's been used throughout his career. Is Boomer Esiason a better QB than Troy Aikman because he has more yards? I'm sorry, ev, I usually respect your arguments, but that's an extremely weak one.

2. How am I putting too much stock into the facilities? That's the single largest thing (outside of pay) that coaches look at. You can't put too much stock into facilities. It's impossible. That's what Mack demanded when he came to Austin, that's what Stoops demanded up in Oklahoma, that's what Pete Carroll demanded to stay in LA. It's the second-largest factor involved into the coaching search, and if you really think that Michigan is a better job because it's a better program, then you really don't know what draws coaches to certain spots. It's not the program, it's the committment to the program. Will that coach have a chance to succeed there? Will the alumni support him? Will he have the chance to get the talent he wants? When Steve Spurrier left Duke, he did so because Florida offered him tons of cresources in a recruiting hotbed. He knew that he'd be given every chance to succeed. When Bob Stoops left Spurrier's side, he went somewhere that he knew he'd have a shot because the OU boosters were that committed to keeping the program at the top of the national scene and giving him a chance to recruit all those Texas kids.

Russ come on now how can you sit here and tell me a guy dominated and showed he was the best tight end in the country when he had 5 catches for 48 yards. You are way overexaggrating his efforts if your saying that is proving he is light years above another tight end and is the nations best on 5 catches. Dont get me wrong Martellus is a great player I just dont think he proved a whole lot yesterday. Yes he has all the tools to be a great NFL TE but he hasnt just totally overwhelmed me with his play at A&M is all Im saying. I wouldnt throw him about the likes of Rucker from Missouri and a few others just yet

Facilities are very important dont get me wrong. But when your talking the Michigan job you are overlooking several factors. One the natural rivalries that Michigan is involved with possibly the greatest in sports vs Ohio State (maybe ive been watching too much espn) I would put it above A&M and Texas just because it seems like year in year out more is at stake in that game as far as national championship implications. I would have to disagree and say that recruiting and having an opportunity to win is more important then facilities. Even though facilities are part of both of those things. There is just as much pressure imo to win at A&M as there is to win at Michigan.

I think when your talking about Michigans job vs A&M its also a matter of one persons opinion on certain things. Facilities may be more important to some coaches where as tradition and talent coming back and ability to recruit are more important to others. You have to consider personal ties to each school and the ability of a coach to handle the traditions at each school. For example a coach coming into A&M has to embrace their traditons with open arms he may not be well liked if he doesnt do that.

Russ as I have said before you know your stuff very well and I dont always agree with you but im defintly not debating you or your knowledge of the subject. Im just stating my differing opinion. Your right my argument earlier was weak but I have been busy taking care of my niece and trying to handle some things going on at home so I havent had time to type out a full and complete arugment up until now.

[big daddy russ]

It's cool, ev, but maybe you didn't get to see Martellus the way I did because it's harder to see everything on TV. He was absolutely dominant at the LOS, didn't have a single drop, and was great at getting open, especially in clutch situations. He hauled in a couple of tough passes in tight situations and UT used a variety of looks to try to cover him, drawing attention away from the receivers. No doubt Earvin Taylor finally played up to his huge potential this game, but he also got a lot of open looks due to the fact that Fran was using the attention on Bennett and Mike Goodson (Goodson lined up wide in most of the five-wide sets) to give him room to work, and Taylor took advantage of it.

As far as facilities, I know where you're coming from because Michigan's name is enough right now to draw those recruits, but after a few down years, they'll be right where Notre Dame (the biggest name in college football) was a few years back.

This is the easiest way to describe it. Imagine you're a writer and heading to New York for two interviews with two major national magazines. One, The Saturday Evening Post, used to have a big reputation back in the early- to mid-20th Century due to their great stories and their ties with Norman Rockwell, but aren't the big name they once were. The other is Time Magazine.

Both are offering you the same salary, but the Evening Post is making a strong push revamp their image and a strong push for big-time writers/editors. When they court you, they fly you out in their company-owned, high-speed luxury jet (which they use to transport employees to business meetings and jobs around the globe), put you up in the Ritz-Carlton, show you their 'Recreation Area' which includes quite a few rooms with big screen TV's that can be reserved for free by employees, pickup games and indoor facilities for every sport you could want to play, a hospitality room constantly stocked with food for free, a great workout area with every piece of equipment you could ever want, and is open 24 hours a day 365 days a year. On top of that, they offer you a great living package where they pay for a huge, upscale apartment next door to where you work.

Time, on the other hand, offers you a free membership to the local gym, open until 5 pm Sundays and 10 pm the rest of the week, and $1000 living expense. That $1k will cover a NYC apartment, but you'll have to throw in quite a bit of your own money to get anything close to work or nice. And on your salary, you can only afford close or nice, but not both. You stay in the local LaQuinta and hitch a ride on Southwest Airlines, coach class, between a guy who smells like onions and raw liver and a bigger lady who never stops eating. She mistakes your disgust at the crumbs of food all over her chest for you staring at her boobs and makes a big scene. You will have to register as a sex offender when you get back from the trip.

Furthermore, for any travel within 1000 miles, they give you a compact rental car and for any travel more than that, you get the privelege of the whole Southwest Airlines experience once again.

It's the same thing that recruits see and the same thing that coaches see. These are the places a coach works, hangs out, and spends a lot of time, and likewise for the players. That's why facilities are such a huge part of recruiting.

[Big Papa]

just to throw a lil somthing in here...during the Michigan-Ohio State game they showed the layouts and plans for renovations that were goin to be done to the big house in ann arbor... and i think they said they were starting them at the end of this season....they didnt show the rest of facitlities but i suppose those will be done along witht the stadium...and the comptuter sketches did look pretty impressive...but maybe thats all wrong...and it was another stadium...but im pretty sure that it was UMs stadium

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Big Papa
just to throw a lil somthing in here...during the Michigan-Ohio State game they showed the layouts and plans for renovations that were goin to be done to the big house in ann arbor... and i think they said they were starting them at the end of this season....they didnt show the rest of facitlities but i suppose those will be done along witht the stadium...and the comptuter sketches did look pretty impressive...but maybe thats all wrong...and it was another stadium...but im pretty sure that it was UMs stadium
Well if they are updating their facilities, then that list will definitely look a lot different, depending on the finished product.

[Big Papa]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Well if they are updating their facilities, then that list will definitely look a lot different, depending on the finished product.

idk about the athletic facilities as a whole...but there is defintaly some changes being made to the stadium...including more seating and suites...bathrooms and what not...

http://www.ns.umich.edu/htdocs/releases/story.php?id=258

[Txbroadcaster]

Dont forget the recruting part..UM less battles for top players..A&M bigger crop of players, BUT they have to battle Texas,OU, LSU and others

Throw in the fact UM has alot of young Blue Chip talent that will be at UM for awhile

[TexanFan4Life]

I think Ron English is being overlooked by a lot of schools. He might have a slight recruiting disadvantage his first season as a HC, but he's an excellent defensive mind. I would love to see him end up Head Coaching somewhere next season.

Texans OC Mike Sherman is at the top of the A&M list right behind Tuberville, according to 610 AM in Houston.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
...has started to spin. Who goes where?
I'll throw out my predictions.

Les Miles to Michigan
Bo Pelini (current DC) takes over at LSU
Ron English (Michigan DC) to Nebraska
Karl Dorrell fired, Mike Leach to UCLA
Art Briles to Texas Tech
Mike Sherman to TAMU
Coach Fran to SMU
Mike Singletary to Baylor
Will Muschamp (Auburn DC) to Ole Miss
Jimbo Fisher (Florida State OC) to Arkansas
Tommy Bowden fired, Brian Kelly to Clemson
Dave Wannstedt fired, Greg Schiano to Pitt!!!
Tommy Bowden to Rutgers


The two that I wondered about the most were Nebraska and Arkie. Was thinking that the Huskers need a splash, so the obvious ones (Tedford, Rich Rodriguez, Bo Pelini) were the first to pop into my head. Because of his strong ties to Nebraska, I'd say Pelini is their first choice, but if he gets the opportunity to take over a loaded program in Baton Rouge I can't see him leaving such a great situation when he'll have to rebuild in Lincoln. Tedford and Rodriguez would be splashes, but I think Tom Osborne wants to get back to good defense and a strong running game. And that's where Ron English comes in.

As far as Arkie, I just can't figure out what they're looking for, but I know what I'd look for if I was them. They just haven't been consistent enough with all that offensive talent, so I think they pick up Fisher relatively cheap (in the $1 million range) considering the splash he'd make.

As for the other big names, Tommy Tuberville leverages Texas A&M's highball offer and Saban's contract to get a $1 million raise, raises for his staff, and improvements to the facilities. And somewhere, Bobby Lowder cries.

After considering the UCLA, Nebraska, Michigan, and Texas A&M jobs, Jeff Tedford realizes later in the search that the only place that is realistically looking to hire him is UCLA and backs out at the last minute. Rich Rodriguez listens to offers, but is perfectly content staying at West Virginia. Spurrier is strongly considered at several places, and considers leaving for Arkansas, but ultimately decides to stay at the USC on the east coast.

Spurrier and Tedford, however, leave for greener pastures next year after constant infighting with administrators.

As far as a few big-name coaches looking for jobs: Bill Callahan becomes a commentator, Phil Bennett (SMU) is hired as DC on Mike Sherman's staff at TAMU (and immediately begins making more than he did as a HC at SMU) and Ed Orgeron moves to Auburn to replace Muschamp and head up Tuberville's recruiting efforts.


Alright, it's everyone else's turn.

[TexanFan4Life]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I'll throw out my predictions.

Les Miles to Michigan
Bo Pelini (current DC) takes over at LSU
Ron English (Michigan DC) to Nebraska
Karl Dorrell fired, Mike Leach to UCLA
Art Briles to Texas Tech
Mike Sherman to TAMU
Coach Fran to SMU
Mike Singletary to Baylor
Will Muschamp (Auburn DC) to Ole Miss
Jimbo Fisher (Florida State OC) to Arkansas
Tommy Bowden fired, Brian Kelly to Clemson
Dave Wannstedt fired, Greg Schiano to Pitt!!!
Tommy Bowden to Rutgers


The two that I wondered about the most were Nebraska and Arkie. Was thinking that the Huskers need a splash, so the obvious ones (Tedford, Rich Rodriguez, Bo Pelini) were the first to pop into my head. Because of his strong ties to Nebraska, I'd say Pelini is their first choice, but if he gets the opportunity to take over a loaded program in Baton Rouge I can't see him leaving such a great situation when he'll have to rebuild in Lincoln. Tedford and Rodriguez would be splashes, but I think Tom Osborne wants to get back to good defense and a strong running game. And that's where Ron English comes in.

As far as Arkie, I just can't figure out what they're looking for, but I know what I'd look for if I was them. They just haven't been consistent enough with all that offensive talent, so I think they pick up Fisher relatively cheap (in the $1 million range) considering the splash he'd make.

As for the other big names, Tommy Tuberville leverages Texas A&M's highball offer and Saban's contract to get a $1 million raise, raises for his staff, and improvements to the facilities. And somewhere, Bobby Lowder cries.

After considering the UCLA, Nebraska, Michigan, and Texas A&M jobs, Jeff Tedford realizes later in the search that the only place that is realistically looking to hire him is UCLA and backs out at the last minute. Rich Rodriguez listens to offers, but is perfectly content staying at West Virginia. Spurrier is strongly considered at several places, and considers leaving for Arkansas, but ultimately decides to stay at the USC on the east coast.

Spurrier and Tedford, however, leave for greener pastures next year after constant infighting with administrators.

As far as a few big-name coaches looking for jobs: Bill Callahan becomes a commentator, Phil Bennett (SMU) is hired as DC on Mike Sherman's staff at TAMU (and immediately begins making more than he did as a HC at SMU) and Ed Orgeron moves to Auburn to replace Muschamp and head up Tuberville's recruiting efforts.


Alright, it's everyone else's turn.

I don't think Schiano will leave for Pitt. He seems pretty loyal to Rutgers. Singletary already said 'No' to Baylor. I can't see him changing his mind in the future.

As for English, like I said earlier, I'd love for him to get a HC job somewhere...anywhere. He's a great coach and Nebraska would be lucky to have him, if it turns out that way.

I, however, am also a fan of the little guy, which leaves me wondering about Jerry Moore, Head Coach at Appalachain State. I think it's time Jerry got a promotion. He's done INCREDIBLE things for ASU while he's been there and really does deserve consideration for a big time job...at least a job at a bigger school than he's at right now. Baylor should definitely give Moore a call and have him come there to TRY and rebuild that program, since Baylor's been an absolute mess for the longest time now.

[District303aPastPlayer]

Ed Orgeron -- Mississippi -- Fired

Dennis Franchione -- Texas A&M -- Resigned

Bill Callahan -- Nebraska -- Fired

Chan Gailey -- Georgia Tech -- Fired

Ted Roof -- Duke -- Fired

Sonny Lubick -- Colorado St -- In Negotiations for a Buy Out

Steve Kragthorpe -- Louisville -- Not Leaving

Butch Davis -- North Carolina -- Granted a 1 year extension

Bill Lynch -- Indiana University -- No Longer Interim, 4-year extension

Guy Morriss -- Baylor -- Fired

[coach]

might as well put fired by frans name

[District303aPastPlayer]

Originally posted by coach
might as well put fired by frans name

why? He didn't get fired.

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by District303aPastPlayer
why? He didn't get fired. only bc he quit before they could fire him

[coach]

he was pretty much fired they let him quit so it wouldn't be as degrading

[Adidas410s]

you forgot Guy Morriss at Baylor

also...I can't believe that Chan got the boot at GT. Wonder what happened there? I was at the GT/BC game and GT was clearly not an elite team this year...7-5 wasn't exactly underwhelming IMO.

[coach]

you forgot one


joe paterno -- Penn State -- still alive and still the coach

[Sweetwater Red]

Michigan doesn't need to recruit out of Ohio.:mad:

Look at their roster. Quite a few players out of California, Florida,
and Texas on here. There's even one guy from Alaska. :eek:


http://www.mgoblue.com/football/page.aspx?id=66474

[BMOC]

How long was Orgeron at Ole Miss? Didn't he just get hired two years ago? Not much of a chance there.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by BMOC
How long was Orgeron at Ole Miss? Didn't he just get hired two years ago? Not much of a chance there.
I think he's been there for three years as of this year, but he never got the results they wanted. Their old coach had a 10-win season leading up to his ouster, and despite all the talent Orgeron has recruited, hasn't seemed to be able to put it together on the field.

Some people I've talked to said he needed a little more seasoning as a coach before taking over at a BCS school. Said that he needs to go back down, become a defensive coordinator for a while, and learn the ins and outs a little while longer, but you're right that he didn't seem to get a fair shake.

The cupboard's full for the next guy. They've brought in twice as many five-star recruits since Coach O got to Oxford as Texas A&M has in Fran's entire tenure. Hell, barring something crazy, it looks like Jevan Snead will be their starting QB next year.