Pros/cons of youth leagues [Archive]

48minutes

10-30-2007, 08:51 AM

Hornet Mom 2

10-30-2007, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by hookandladder
Pee-Wee football to me is a joke and most High School football coaches will tell you the same, unless you are fortunate to have a # of knowledgeable parents in your town to really coach the kids the right way. Same thing happens in Little League baseball, the daddy's play their little Johnny in whatever position he wants to play and is not capable to play that position. This is my sons first year in JH football and most of those kids are on B team. If your town does not have any quality coaches you are better off just going to be field and working with him yourself, one on one. Just my take.

Oh to open up this can of worms! This could be an entire thread in itself!

Yes hook, I completely agree with you. When my senior was a freshman, his JV baseball coach told us that we had to get our younger son (who was in 5th grade at the time) OUT of Little League and into open bases tournament ball. We knew this, and were already working on it. He has been playing open bases since the summer before his 6th grade year. And for the pee-wee pop-warner football, same situation. My 8th grader never played that, started for three games on the 7th grade B team last year, was then moved to the A team (because of kids flunking) and has been there ever since (and yes he does start, he plays both ways, and also on the kick off team). Numbers have a lot to do with it, but also, he has learned from the coaches at the school, not a dad that is out there for "little Johnny."

Sorry, I could go on for days about Little League and the politics and sad sad way things are handled, but I'll wait for that thread to be started! :doh:

RattlerDude

11-01-2007, 08:38 AM

Originally posted by Hornet Mom 2
Oh to open up this can of worms! This could be an entire thread in itself!

Yes hook, I completely agree with you. When my senior was a freshman, his JV baseball coach told us that we had to get our younger son (who was in 5th grade at the time) OUT of Little League and into open bases tournament ball. We knew this, and were already working on it. He has been playing open bases since the summer before his 6th grade year. And for the pee-wee pop-warner football, same situation. My 8th grader never played that, started for three games on the 7th grade B team last year, was then moved to the A team (because of kids flunking) and has been there ever since (and yes he does start, he plays both ways, and also on the kick off team). Numbers have a lot to do with it, but also, he has learned from the coaches at the school, not a dad that is out there for "little Johnny."

Sorry, I could go on for days about Little League and the politics and sad sad way things are handled, but I'll wait for that thread to be started! :doh:

Lets hope that thread never gets started, because that is pretty weak

LHPfactory

11-06-2007, 09:34 PM

hookandladder

11-07-2007, 07:09 AM

Originally posted by LHPfactory
I disagree, alot of the LH kids have played since popwarner days. Coaches around here have told me it can make good kids great. I have been coaching my older two sons teams for 2 years now. The older ones team went 6-3 and the younger 6-2-1, and we play all 5a schools and one 4a (Lake Travis) and still kick butt as the only little old 3a school. Doug Allman and Cody Latimore both played pee-wee.

What's wrong with this picture, 3A school kicking butt against 4A and 5A in Pee Wee football. I wonder how many real football players are playing Pee Wee in the Austin area, sounds like little league. I am not for sure but I think I remember Allman came from a 5A school to LH, could be wrong though. Hey as I said before if you have a knowledgeable coach or someone that has played in college or pro I might consider it. Daddy ball just don't cut it.Also my son played Select ball in the Austin area and from what I was told they did not play pee wee football until the year they were going into the 7th grade. I know by reading the Statesmen that a # of the really good players in football are also highly recruited in Baseball.

LH Panther Mom

11-07-2007, 07:42 AM

Originally posted by hookandladder
What's wrong with this picture, 3A school kicking butt against 4A and 5A in Pee Wee football. I wonder how many real football players are playing Pee Wee in the Austin area, sounds like little league. I am not for sure but I think I remember Allman came from a 5A school to LH, could be wrong though.
Yes, Allman came from a 5A to LH. Is that relative to him playing Pee Wee football? "Real" football players? As opposed to "pretend" ones? I know there were several of the good players from Round Rock, McNeill and a couple other teams that played on that same team with Allman.

LH Panther Mom

11-07-2007, 07:54 AM

Originally posted by Hornet Mom 2
Sorry, I could go on for days about Little League and the politics and sad sad way things are handled, but I'll wait for that thread to be started! :doh:
Now's your chance. :D ;)

Old Tiger

11-07-2007, 07:56 AM

Pee wee football is supposed to be for fun :)

hookandladder

11-07-2007, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Yes, Allman came from a 5A to LH. Is that relative to him playing Pee Wee football? "Real" football players? As opposed to "pretend" ones? I know there were several of the good players from Round Rock, McNeill and a couple other teams that played on that same team with Allman.

Real football players are made from knowledgeable coaches or knowledgeable parents not pee wee football. Bottom Line, Pee Wee Football = Little League Baseball most all the time. As stated on this post pee wee is supposed to be fun just like little league, let every Johnny play any position his Daddy wants.

Dogman_1969

11-07-2007, 08:20 AM

I think youth football can be a great benefit if it is coached and taught correctly. If the guys that are teaching you do not understand fundamentals of the game then they are lost and don't belong coaching at all.

I have been a youth coach for 12 years ( taking a couple yrs off to build a new house and other things) and hopefully I have taught the players that I have had the fundamentals of the game as well as other life lessons such as respect for adults, teammates as well as your opponents.

I coached teams when my own sons were not old enough to play but treated everyone the same as if they were my own. This is my last year of youth coaching mainly because my youngest son is in the 6th grade and will be in Jr High sports next season and I won't have time.

Some kids do get burned out on football but I think that burnout occurs alot more in baseball due to the fact of the "fall ball" and year around play that now goes on. I'm not a fan of that stuff at all and believe that you need to let kids play what they want too and changing sports is a good thing.

My oldest son took one football season off and took guitar lessons. He found out that wasn't for him and it didn't seem to hurt his ability to tackle and catch passes so far.

Shoot, I even coached "Go Blue" and a couple of other 3ADownlow members when they were just young pups...........

BILLYFRED0000

11-07-2007, 08:23 AM

Real football starts in Pee Wee. But the kids are not the focus because they may or may not play or even be players by jr high. The focus is to have fun and teach fundamentals. Blocking and tackling. And if you are lucky as I have been, you have kids that love contact and will put a hat on
you. But it is up to the coaches to make sure that the process is fun not serious. As long as you let them "play" some they will remember the experience as "fun" and play again and again. As they grow you will see who players are. And many players start that way. We do teach the basics of the 10 - 1 defense and run a very basic Celina running offense using the same numbers and terminology on O.
And some of these kids will stay with it thru HS. Those kids will have benefitted from the start. The others I want to have fun. If the season ends and they have had fun I have done my job. We win (9-1) but I am trying to get them to have fun. That should be your goal. Teach what you can but make it fun so they enjoy the experience. And believe me some of those kids "get" it and will play hard.

The burnout will not occur if you let them decide if they want to play. My son wants to play soccer this spring. So I will let him. No football at that time anyway. But if he still wants to play football next fall he will.

charlesrixey

11-07-2007, 08:37 AM

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
Real football starts in Pee Wee. But the kids are not the focus because they may or may not play or even be players by jr high. The focus is to have fun and teach fundamentals. Blocking and tackling. And if you are lucky as I have been, you have kids that love contact and will put a hat on
you. But it is up to the coaches to make sure that the process is fun not serious. As long as you let them "play" some they will remember the experience as "fun" and play again and again. As they grow you will see who players are. And many players start that way. We do teach the basics of the 10 - 1 defense and run a very basic Celina running offense using the same numbers and terminology on O.
And some of these kids will stay with it thru HS. Those kids will have benefitted from the start. The others I want to have fun. If the season ends and they have had fun I have done my job. We win (9-1) but I am trying to get them to have fun. That should be your goal. Teach what you can but make it fun so they enjoy the experience. And believe me some of those kids "get" it and will play hard.

The burnout will not occur if you let them decide if they want to play. My son wants to play soccer this spring. So I will let him. No football at that time anyway. But if he still wants to play football next fall he will.

did we lose the super bowl, billy?

BILLYFRED0000

11-07-2007, 09:09 AM

Originally posted by charlesrixey
did we lose the super bowl, billy?

Yes the first and second graders did. Gunter had one kid that was just hard to bring down. He got loose twice and that was all she wrote.

scott Wilson

11-07-2007, 10:06 AM

Not all "Dads" are eat up with winning. Some of us actually worry about the big picture as well. Grades are keeping a couple of our players out, attitudes are costing several others playing time, (When yes, these players could probably help us win) but we won`t sacrifice these things for a W. My message before every game is "Have Fun ". Simple, but yet what we are here for. Winning is nice, seeing the kids laugh and joke and have fun with you=priceless. It brings out the kid in us coaches. So , no, we all aren`t just about winning at all costs.

gatordaze

11-07-2007, 10:33 AM

I was a college athlete and in my day, early 80's, it was good enough to have played in high school if you had potential. Today kids are coming out of high school with 8-10 seasons of experience ready to play. There is no substitute for repetition. Playing little league, and select can be the difference for a kid that is not gifted with great athletic ability. My kids are 7th graders and have now played 7 seasons since the 3rd grade. They love it and it shows in their ability to dominate on both sides of the ball.

They may or may not be able to play past High School, but I for one cherish every game they play and only wish my dad would have had the opportunity to allow me to play more games of the sport I love.

The key is, in my opinion, play as much as you can as long as it is your burning desire. No one is forcing my kids to focus on football. In fact I have to hide it a little from the Celina coaches as Coach Ford is opposed to anything not his color of Orange.

We have 2 more seasons in the Winter Texas Select Football League Janruary through May (7th and 8th) 1 more Jr. High 8th and then 4 in High School. We will see what happens after that. I wish that I had been able to play 15 seasons of this great sport!

And BTW, I am a coach in their winter select league and would welcome any 7th and 8th graders that want a little more football. We practice in Mckinney and play in Desoto. You know your kids love football when their willing to brave the winter elements to practice and play. PM me if you want more infor.

Ranger Mom

11-07-2007, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by tortilla_man
I was talking to a friend of mine at the la grange game, this bellville class was the first or second class to play through the pee-wee football leauge in bellville and they have had alot of drops-outs, any chances kids are just getting burned out playing for so many years?

Just a thought

I think it just depends....all 4 of my boys played football starting in 3rd grade, and none lasted past their freshman year.

When my middle son decided not to play, he was 14...he informed me that he has been playing football for half his life!! (Which was actually right...he had played for 7 years)!

RedWhiteBlue

11-07-2007, 10:42 AM

I worry about my sons ending up on someone's team who is the want-to-be Varsity Coach who knows everything there is about everything ( who really knows nothing). We didn't let our oldest play tackle football until his 6th grade year just to kind of get him ready for 7th grade and made sure he got on a friend of our's team and not some freak's team. Our little one was eligible was eligible for flag this year but we didn't let him play because he said he didn't want to play unless he could hit somebody- he will probably have to wait until 7th grade to play. I am afraid he will be a monster child.
I look at some of the guys I went to school with and see them coaching their kids and it is so scary........

gatordaze

11-07-2007, 11:00 AM

As a general rule, I would say that the 5th, 6th and 7th grade coaches in places like Frisco are better than the middle school coaches that never played the game. A good league that monitors coaches and parental feedback is essential. I know that the FFL (Frisco Football League) provides kids and safe, fun and competitive choice.

My league the TSFL is really a very competitive league and the coaching is provided by men that want to impact kids lives and love the sport. Are the Varsity wanna be's? maybe, but they care and provide kids (many underprivledged) a way to focus on something beside the difficulties of their lives.

I would rather my kid be influenced by a Varsity wanna be that the drug dealer on the corner.

BILLYFRED0000

11-07-2007, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by RedWhiteBlue
I worry about my sons ending up on someone's team who is the want-to-be Varsity Coach who knows everything there is about everything ( who really knows nothing). We didn't let our oldest play tackle football until his 6th grade year just to kind of get him ready for 7th grade and made sure he got on a friend of our's team and not some freak's team. Our little one was eligible was eligible for flag this year but we didn't let him play because he said he didn't want to play unless he could hit somebody- he will probably have to wait until 7th grade to play. I am afraid he will be a monster child.
I look at some of the guys I went to school with and see them coaching their kids and it is so scary........

Yeah that is tough. You have to be light on those kids. My son's first and second grade team had a kindergarten player and he was actually quite good and played a lot. Someone asked me if I thought full pads at that age was too much. I said no. These kids hit hard but cannot generate the kind of impact that can hurt anyone. They get hurt getting stepped on more than anything else and that will happen flag or pads.
We try so hard to make it fun. Getting laughing a little, encourage them. It is something different from a lot of coaches. Of course the Celina coaches work more like that than the screamers and yellers. You get on them when you have to but you teach them when you can. You never have to raise your voice to the little ones except to get their attention when they are too rowdy.

rcbulldog34

11-07-2007, 11:06 AM

My 11 year old son played this year and had a blast. he's played tackel sence he was 5. his coach gets advise from Coach Webb in Royse City. most of the kids on the varsity team in RC played togeather sence pee wee and it looks like it is paying off for them. If a program starts at a young age and is coached the right way it will pay off in the long run. thats how you built great programs such as Southlake and Celina, they all have kids that played at a young age. Rangerjoe33 was my sons coach this year and did a great job.

VWG

11-07-2007, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by gatordaze
I was a college athlete and in my day, early 80's, it was good enough to have played in high school if you had potential. Today kids are coming out of high school with 8-10 seasons of experience ready to play. There is no substitute for repetition. Playing little league, and select can be the difference for a kid that is not gifted with great athletic ability. My kids are 7th graders and have now played 7 seasons since the 3rd grade. They love it and it shows in their ability to dominate on both sides of the ball.

They may or may not be able to play past High School, but I for one cherish every game they play and only wish my dad would have had the opportunity to allow me to play more games of the sport I love.

The key is, in my opinion, play as much as you can as long as it is your burning desire. No one is forcing my kids to focus on football. In fact I have to hide it a little from the Celina coaches as Coach Ford is opposed to anything not his color of Orange.

We have 2 more seasons in the Winter Texas Select Football League Janruary through May (7th and 8th) 1 more Jr. High 8th and then 4 in High School. We will see what happens after that. I wish that I had been able to play 15 seasons of this great sport!

And BTW, I am a coach in their winter select league and would welcome any 7th and 8th graders that want a little more football. We practice in Mckinney and play in Desoto. You know your kids love football when their willing to brave the winter elements to practice and play. PM me if you want more infor.

No offense here, but having your kids play football during regular season, and then Jan-May? That seems to be overkill.
I think the same thing about kids that play baseball, basketball, soccer, etc..... all year long or over an extended period of time. Know a coach who told me that every kid he has ever seen succeed at the next level from high school were all around athletes. Meaning, the kids that played football AND other sports.

gatordaze

11-07-2007, 11:11 AM

No offense taken, many parents encourage their kids to play basketball after football season and then maybe baseball?

My kids don't like basketball or baseball. Would you rather them sit home and play Halo? If they don't make their grades they don't play. This is THEIR choice!

I guess that you would not approve of my 6' 9th grader that chooses to play year round volleyball. The activity is the BEST thing for her! No time for boys!

bigron15

11-07-2007, 11:16 AM

pee wee football is a great way to start learning the fundamentals of the game and you start building rivalries. i remember playing gary edwards and his team from wylie in the pop warner days.

lakers

11-07-2007, 11:34 AM

out where I am from everybody plays pee-wee football

RedWhiteBlue

11-07-2007, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by bigron15
pee wee football is a great way to start learning the fundamentals of the game and you start building rivalries. i remember playing gary edwards and his team from wylie in the pop warner days.
That is, if you have someone that teaches the fundamentals, basics and rules correctly without being demeaned and belittled in the process. It is great if you can coach your own children or hand pick your child's coach- other wise I say, no.
On the other hand, your child can learn how to play incorrectly, get hurt, learn to hate the sport or learn bad sportsmanship.

gatordaze

11-07-2007, 11:42 AM

Sorry to hear about your bad experience

bigron15

11-07-2007, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by RedWhiteBlue
That is, if you have someone that teaches the fundamentals, basics and rules correctly without being demeaned and belittled in the process. It is great if you can coach your own children or hand pick your child's coach- other wise I say, no.
On the other hand, your child can learn how to play incorrectly, get hurt, learn to hate the sport or learn bad sportsmanship.

we didnt hand pick the coach. he has coached the pee wee teams since forever. he still coaches them. they are good about teaching the basics and rules to the kids. i see where you are coming from though. some guys just HAVE to win but dont realize its just little kids trying to have some fun.

BullFrog Dad

11-07-2007, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by gatordaze
I guess that you would not approve of my 6' 9th grader that chooses to play year round volleyball. The activity is the BEST thing for her! No time for boys! 6' freshman daughter!!! You won't have much of a problem with the boys.

44INAROW

11-07-2007, 01:02 PM

hhmm running the streets and getting into trouble or playing PeeWee football with "daddy coaches" I'll go for the 2nd option.. Whatever it takes to get some of these kids off the streets as early as possible! Some of us live in urban areas and aren't blessed with fancy training facilities, movie theatres, bowling allies etc - Our kids have to "do what they have to do" to have fun.......... So what if we don't have big-shot pro-players to coach - (not that there is anything wrong with that) - but on the flip side, there's nothing wrong with caring parents getting involved. Not everyone is cut-throat - some of us just want to raise well-rounded kids. We've only had "PeeWee" football in Cuero for about 5 years now (I could be off a bit) but it's been a positive situation for the most part.

nobogey72

11-07-2007, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by Dogman_1969
I think youth football can be a great benefit if it is coached and taught correctly. If the guys that are teaching you do not understand fundamentals of the game then they are lost and don't belong coaching at all.

I have been a youth coach for 12 years ( taking a couple yrs off to build a new house and other things) and hopefully I have taught the players that I have had the fundamentals of the game as well as other life lessons such as respect for adults, teammates as well as your opponents.

I coached teams when my own sons were not old enough to play but treated everyone the same as if they were my own. This is my last year of youth coaching mainly because my youngest son is in the 6th grade and will be in Jr High sports next season and I won't have time.

Some kids do get burned out on football but I think that burnout occurs alot more in baseball due to the fact of the "fall ball" and year around play that now goes on. I'm not a fan of that stuff at all and believe that you need to let kids play what they want too and changing sports is a good thing.

My oldest son took one football season off and took guitar lessons. He found out that wasn't for him and it didn't seem to hurt his ability to tackle and catch passes so far.

Shoot, I even coached "Go Blue" and a couple of other 3ADownlow members when they were just young pups...........

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Well put. However, for every Pop Warner coach like you, there are 10 that are out there with a different agenda, ie. their own personal ego. Just like LL or any other youth sport, it can be a good deal for your kid or a bad deal for your kid, all depending on the quality of the coach, and what the coach's main objective is.

rcbulldog34

11-07-2007, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by nobogey72
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Well put. However, for every Pop Warner coach like you, there are 10 that are out there with a different agenda, ie. their own personal ego. Just like LL or any other youth sport, it can be a good deal for your kid or a bad deal for your kid, all depending on the quality of the coach, and what the coach's main objective is.

You're right about that. my son plays select baseball in dallas where most of the coaches are idiots. my son was cut from his team in August because he wanted to play football in the fall. and not practice baseball 4 nights a week and play games until the second weekend in November.

44INAROW

11-07-2007, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by rcbulldog34
You're right about that me son plays select baseball in dallas and most of the coaches are idiots. me son was cut from his team in August because he wanted to play football in the fall and not practice baseball 4 nights a week and play games until the second weekend in November. then only have December off before starting practice for next summer.
I might totally off-base and "just a girl" but HUH?:doh:

rangerjoe33

11-07-2007, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by rcbulldog34
My 11 year old son played this year and had a blast. he's played tackel sence he was 5. his coach gets advise from Coach Webb in Royse City. most of the kids on the varsity team in RC played togeather sence pee wee and it looks like it is paying off for them. If a program starts at a young age and is coached the right way it will pay off in the long run. thats how you built great programs such as Southlake and Celina, they all have kids that played at a young age. Rangerjoe33 was my sons coach this year and did a great job.

Thanks dogdad. I will say this, winning is important even in little league football, it teaches a winning attitude, and work ethic. However, I did not take it to the extreme. We played in the wildcard round this past weekend, we were leading at halftime 6-0 against Forney. I sat with the offense in the endzone and asked the kids who had a joke to share, I shared one. We all laughed together. We ended up losing the game and are out of the play-offs, but that is OK with me. I was able to work with some kids who had never played and needed to be introduced to the game before they get into Jr High. Some developed some friendships, learned some social skills, and learned how to work hard for something, and learned what it was to be a team. It was the first time most of the kids had made the play-offs since they were in the 1st grade. This same team was 1-8 last year, we were 7-2 this year going into the wildcard, we learned how to win and we did it the right way.

I also dealt with kids missing practice because of grades, one of those kids asked during the game if they could play, my answer..."no, it wouldn't be fair to put you in the game in front of a kid who practiced all week when you were not able to practice". I stressed grades all year with our kids. I told them specifically "Football is a privilege, not a right. You will not play pro football, only 1 in 600,000 do, your education is your future, not football, so take care of business off the field just like you do on the field."

So my opinion is...Youth Football is good. It helps impressionable kids develop good habits at the right age if they are taught and treated the right way.