Another North Texas (ex) football player claims racial bias

[kaorder1999]

Third North Texas player claims racial bias


10:05 PM CDT on Thursday, November 1, 2007
By BRETT VITO / Denton Record-Chronicle
bvito@dentonrc.com

DENTON – A third former North Texas football player said Thursday that he will give a statement to the NAACP claming racial bias among the team's coaching staff.

Former Plano standout Gary Oubre played in two games this season before quitting the team two weeks ago.

"I think there is a racial issue with the team," said Oubre, a defensive back. "I don't think they can deal with black college athletes. That is why I didn't make an argument and just left the team. It was just an uncomfortable situation and not a healthy atmosphere."

Fellow defensive back Dominique Green filed a complaint with the NAACP on Monday after he was suspended for an incident on the sideline during the Mean Green's loss to Middle Tennessee on Saturday. Green said he was suspended for saying, "We are from the hood."

UNT coach Todd Dodge disputed that claim, saying that Green was insubordinate to coaches and used inappropriate language. Sophomore defensive back Desmon Chatman, who was suspended earlier in the season, joined Green's complaint on Tuesday.

The NAACP was scheduled to meet with UNT players Thursday, but that meeting was pushed back. NAACP official Ericka Cain did not return a message seeking comment.

Oubre said he never had a problem with Dodge but struggled to get along with some of the other coaches on the staff. Dodge hired an entirely new staff after taking over the team in December from former coach Darrell Dickey, who was fired late last season.

Dodge, the former coach at Southlake Carroll, said Green and Chatman are still on scholarship at UNT. Oubre said he is also still on scholarship.

"I want it to be better for everyone else when they are there next year," Oubre said. "I want to get to the bottom of it now."

Dodge declined to comment through a UNT spokesman.

UNT athletic director Rick Villarreal said Tuesday that the university would investigate the players' claims. The UNT athletic department is providing information to UNT's administration, which is handling the investigation.

Oubre believes more players will come forward when the NAACP takes statements and as the investigation progresses. Cain said earlier in the week that the NAACP would try to mediate the dispute and would take the players' claims to the university's administration if it found they had merit.

"Once this gets going and guys feel like they can come forward, more will," Oubre said. "When I saw that these guys were serious, I thought that I should speak up."

Villarreal expressed confidence Thursday that his coaches will be absolved of any wrongdoing.

"When I hired Todd, I believed in the things he believes in," Villarreal said. "I will await the conclusion of this investigation."

[DDBooger]

soundsl like...
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z132/glibartfan/9fxso8.jpg
cause someone told them to shut their damn mouth! hence the..

Originally posted by kaorder1999


"I think there is a racial issue with the team," said Oubre, a defensive back. "I don't think they can deal with black college athletes."
because being from "the hood" they deserve a different set of rules or lengthier leeway. bullcrap.

[Old Tiger]

Odd that there are 3 reports

[3afan]

another lack of playing time issue probably

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by Go Blue
Odd that there are 3 reports
odd? this is how it always happens. One says something and gets the attention and then more want to jump in.

[kaorder1999]

I didnt get my way and I quit so now I have a chance to get back at the coach mentality! Its everywhere now.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
odd? this is how it always happens. One says something and gets the attention and then more want to jump in. 3 is an odd number:)

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by Go Blue
3 is an odd number:)

good point

[BMOC]

I agree with the booger, sounds like sour grapes.

[Phil C]

Hey ka - regarding everyone in the world you must remember that -


They are all racists except thee and me - and I'm not too sure about thee!





:D

[big daddy russ]

This just sounds like a few crybabies who didn't get their way. I hope if that if this is really the case, this whole thing doesn't affect Dodge's staff in recruiting. Could have a huge backlash, especially if it costs him a few key players. Lack of talent can make the best coach look terrible.

[kepdawg]

I want to hear what Jamario Thomas, Casey Fitzgerald, etc... have to say!

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
This just sounds like a few crybabies who didn't get their way. I hope if that if this is really the case, this whole thing doesn't affect Dodge's staff in recruiting. Could have a huge backlash, especially if it costs him a few key players. Lack of talent can make the best coach look terrible. good point! if labeled fairly or not, it will have a negative effect. sux:dispntd:

[mwynn05]

Originally posted by kepdawg
I want to hear what Jamario Thomas, Casey Fitzgerald, etc... have to say! Well, I sit next to Casey in one of my classes and the professor said something about it and Casey said something like man that's stupid...they're stupid....basically to sum it up he pretty much agreed with Joseph Miller when he said this..."I don't see a reason for all this," said Miller. "I don't know what they're trying to prove. There's no racial conflict on this team."

Miller said the timing of Chatman's complaint surprised him and he did not understand why the issue of race has been brought up.

"He was suspended a long time ago but now that Dominique said something, he wants to say something," Miller said. "He's been off the team for a while. We still see him around the study hall and dorms and what not, but he had never said anything or complained about anybody being a racist."

Miller said both players should accept the reality of their suspensions.

"Everybody gets an equal chance," he said. "If you mess up and do wrong and are insubordinate then that's on you. You have to be held accountable for your mistakes."

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by mwynn05
Well, I sit next to Casey in one of my classes and the professor said something about it and Casey said something like man that's stupid...they're stupid....basically to sum it up he pretty much agreed with Joseph Miller when he said this..."I don't see a reason for all this," said Miller. "I don't know what they're trying to prove. There's no racial conflict on this team."

Miller said the timing of Chatman's complaint surprised him and he did not understand why the issue of race has been brought up.

"He was suspended a long time ago but now that Dominique said something, he wants to say something," Miller said. "He's been off the team for a while. We still see him around the study hall and dorms and what not, but he had never said anything or complained about anybody being a racist."

Miller said both players should accept the reality of their suspensions.

"Everybody gets an equal chance," he said. "If you mess up and do wrong and are insubordinate then that's on you. You have to be held accountable for your mistakes."
Man, that's terrible. I feel bad for that coaching staff, the team, and the other black kids on the team who are having to endure the questions and scrutiny on the team because of those ex-players' comments. Man, what a selfish act.

Sounds to me like Dodge was right to get rid of them.

[mwynn05]

btw for those of you that dont know Casey is also black

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by mwynn05
Well, I sit next to Casey in one of my classes and the professor said something about it and Casey said something like man that's stupid...they're stupid....basically to sum it up he pretty much agreed with Joseph Miller when he said this..."I don't see a reason for all this," said Miller. "I don't know what they're trying to prove. There's no racial conflict on this team."

Miller said the timing of Chatman's complaint surprised him and he did not understand why the issue of race has been brought up.

"He was suspended a long time ago but now that Dominique said something, he wants to say something," Miller said. "He's been off the team for a while. We still see him around the study hall and dorms and what not, but he had never said anything or complained about anybody being a racist."

Miller said both players should accept the reality of their suspensions.

"Everybody gets an equal chance," he said. "If you mess up and do wrong and are insubordinate then that's on you. You have to be held accountable for your mistakes." All of them think that Dodge is but they aren't as vocal. I heard the same kind of stories mark.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Go Blue
All of them think that Dodge is but they aren't as vocal. I heard the same kind of stories mark.
Oh do you? Because Fitzgerald seemed pretty adamant when he was saying that stuff.

After reading some stories online and reading this, I don't believe it for one second. Sounds to me like Fitzgerald is just more disciplined than some of those other clowns, and that's what Dodge is demanding of his team.

I've never heard of Tre Newton, one of Riley Dodge's best friends, accuse Dodge of being racist, but I hear about a lot of clowns like these three who throw out the race card when they don't get their way. It's horrible when it's true, and it's disgusting when it's not. As passionate as I am against racism, the race card sparks just as much hatred. And everyone, whether or not it's politically correct, should feel the same way on both issues.

If there really is racism going on in that program, I'll feel like crap when it's all said and done. But after reading everything that the coaches and players have said, from stories in the Denton and other Dallas-area papers, I'd say there's maybe a 2% chance that there's any truth to this.

People like that make it harder for those really do suffer injustices, like the Jena 6. I know how much skepticism there was when that story broke. If more people would be honest, unselfish, and up front about racial issues, only reporting them when they're true, then those who really need our help would have more credibility in the eyes of public at large. Right now, however, too many just see it as a "get out of jail free" card.

I hope the media follows this story and there's a major backlash if these kids are found to be making up stuff the same way Jason Whitlock followed Sharpton and Jackson after the Duke lacrosse case. And it has to start with the black community, which is why I love guys like Bill Cosby, Whitlock, and many other leaders.

I look at Sharpton, Jackson, and these three kids and see a disappointment. Not that they can't turn things around and become better people, but the people they are right now simply disappoint me.

I look at Whitlock, Cosby, Jason Wilbon (notice that there's a lot of representation among sportswriters and a lot of bad representation with "Reverends?"), Condoleeza Rice, etc, and I see black people not only standing out and excelling at everything from entertainment to politics, but also being honest, level-headed voices of reason against the mob mentality that claims of racism spawn.

[mwynn05]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Oh do you? Because Fitzgerald seemed pretty adamant when he was saying that stuff.

After reading some stories online and reading this, I don't believe it for one second. Sounds to me like Fitzgerald is just more disciplined than some of those other clowns, and that's what Dodge is demanding of his team.

I've never heard of Tre Newton, one of Riley Dodge's best friends, accuse Dodge of being racist, but I hear about a lot of clowns like these three who throw out the race card when they don't get their way. It's horrible when it's true, and it's disgusting when it's not. As passionate as I am against racism, the race card sparks just as much hatred. And everyone, whether or not it's politically correct, should feel the same way on both issues.

If there really is racism going on in that program, I'll feel like crap when it's all said and done. But after reading everything that the coaches and players have said, from stories in the Denton and other Dallas-area papers, I'd say there's maybe a 2% chance that there's any truth to this.

People like that make it harder for those really do suffer injustices, like the Jena 6. I know how much skepticism there was when that story broke. If more people would be honest, unselfish, and up front about racial issues, only reporting them when they're true, then those who really need our help would have more credibility in the eyes of public at large. Right now, however, too many just see it as a "get out of jail free" card.

I hope the media follows this story and there's a major backlash if these kids are found to be making up stuff the same way Jason Whitlock followed Sharpton and Jackson after the Duke lacrosse case. And it has to start with the black community, which is why I love guys like Bill Cosby, Whitlock, and many other leaders.

I look at Sharpton, Jackson, and these three kids and see a disappointment. Not that they can't turn things around and become better people, but the people they are right now simply disappoint me.

I look at Whitlock, Cosby, Jason Wilbon (notice that there's a lot of representation among sportswriters and a lot of bad representation with "Reverends?"), Condoleeza Rice, etc, and I see black people not only standing out and excelling at everything from entertainment to politics, but also being honest, level-headed voices of reason against the mob mentality that claims of racism spawn. that quote wasnt fomr fitzgerald that was from another player (who is also black) given to i believe the NT daily

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Oh do you? Because Fitzgerald seemed pretty adamant when he was saying that stuff.

After reading some stories online and reading this, I don't believe it for one second. Sounds to me like Fitzgerald is just more disciplined than some of those other clowns, and that's what Dodge is demanding of his team.

I've never heard of Tre Newton, one of Riley Dodge's best friends, accuse Dodge of being racist, but I hear about a lot of clowns like these three who throw out the race card when they don't get their way. It's horrible when it's true, and it's disgusting when it's not. As passionate as I am against racism, the race card sparks just as much hatred. And everyone, whether or not it's politically correct, should feel the same way on both issues.

If there really is racism going on in that program, I'll feel like crap when it's all said and done. But after reading everything that the coaches and players have said, from stories in the Denton and other Dallas-area papers, I'd say there's maybe a 2% chance that there's any truth to this.

People like that make it harder for those really do suffer injustices, like the Jena 6. I know how much skepticism there was when that story broke. If more people would be honest, unselfish, and up front about racial issues, only reporting them when they're true, then those who really need our help would have more credibility in the eyes of public at large. Right now, however, too many just see it as a "get out of jail free" card.

I hope the media follows this story and there's a major backlash if these kids are found to be making up stuff the same way Jason Whitlock followed Sharpton and Jackson after the Duke lacrosse case. And it has to start with the black community, which is why I love guys like Bill Cosby, Whitlock, and many other leaders.

I look at Sharpton, Jackson, and these three kids and see a disappointment. Not that they can't turn things around and become better people, but the people they are right now simply disappoint me.

I look at Whitlock, Cosby, Jason Wilbon (notice that there's a lot of representation among sportswriters and a lot of bad representation with "Reverends?"), Condoleeza Rice, etc, and I see black people not only standing out and excelling at everything from entertainment to politics, but also being honest, level-headed voices of reason against the mob mentality that claims of racism spawn.

:clap: :clap: :clap: That was beautimous!!

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
:clap: :clap: :clap: That was beautimous!! Russ is the man. ;) :inlove:

[scott Wilson]

Russ for PREZ!!! Your halfway to solving this countries problems already.

[Phil C]

BE POLITICALLY CORRECT!!

:mad:

[NDFootball]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Oh do you? Because Fitzgerald seemed pretty adamant when he was saying that stuff.

After reading some stories online and reading this, I don't believe it for one second. Sounds to me like Fitzgerald is just more disciplined than some of those other clowns, and that's what Dodge is demanding of his team.

I've never heard of Tre Newton, one of Riley Dodge's best friends, accuse Dodge of being racist, but I hear about a lot of clowns like these three who throw out the race card when they don't get their way. It's horrible when it's true, and it's disgusting when it's not. As passionate as I am against racism, the race card sparks just as much hatred. And everyone, whether or not it's politically correct, should feel the same way on both issues.

If there really is racism going on in that program, I'll feel like crap when it's all said and done. But after reading everything that the coaches and players have said, from stories in the Denton and other Dallas-area papers, I'd say there's maybe a 2% chance that there's any truth to this.

People like that make it harder for those really do suffer injustices, like the Jena 6. I know how much skepticism there was when that story broke. If more people would be honest, unselfish, and up front about racial issues, only reporting them when they're true, then those who really need our help would have more credibility in the eyes of public at large. Right now, however, too many just see it as a "get out of jail free" card.

I hope the media follows this story and there's a major backlash if these kids are found to be making up stuff the same way Jason Whitlock followed Sharpton and Jackson after the Duke lacrosse case. And it has to start with the black community, which is why I love guys like Bill Cosby, Whitlock, and many other leaders.

I look at Sharpton, Jackson, and these three kids and see a disappointment. Not that they can't turn things around and become better people, but the people they are right now simply disappoint me.

I look at Whitlock, Cosby, Jason Wilbon (notice that there's a lot of representation among sportswriters and a lot of bad representation with "Reverends?"), Condoleeza Rice, etc, and I see black people not only standing out and excelling at everything from entertainment to politics, but also being honest, level-headed voices of reason against the mob mentality that claims of racism spawn.

you, sir, are my hero :clap:

[deer spotter]

Originally posted by mwynn05
Well, I sit next to Casey in one of my classes and the professor said something about it and Casey said something like man that's stupid...they're stupid....basically to sum it up he pretty much agreed with Joseph Miller when he said this..."I don't see a reason for all this," said Miller. "I don't know what they're trying to prove. There's no racial conflict on this team."

Miller said the timing of Chatman's complaint surprised him and he did not understand why the issue of race has been brought up.

"He was suspended a long time ago but now that Dominique said something, he wants to say something," Miller said. "He's been off the team for a while. We still see him around the study hall and dorms and what not, but he had never said anything or complained about anybody being a racist."

Miller said both players should accept the reality of their suspensions.

"Everybody gets an equal chance," he said. "If you mess up and do wrong and are insubordinate then that's on you. You have to be held accountable for your mistakes."

Man what the h--- do these kids want?? Oh I know'"something for nothing". Why is it ALWAYS the same old cr-- with these guys? You practice hard you play hard. When you make mistakes somone hollers at you. IF you pay attention and do things right,guess what,they don't holler at you any more. Next thing you know they will have Quanell or Jesse on the sidelines at practice. Could be blaming the wrong people. Maybe the moms and dads never taught them to respect their elders,no matter of color,creed or origin.

[King_LeYoeNidas]

believe it or not, it IS possible that individual coaches may be in fact racist. not to back up or dismiss the given situation but this IS the south and there ARE still bigots out there. Just because "it's UNT" doesn't mean there is "no way" racism doesn't exist there. But the thing is, unless these kids had a recorder, I don't see how anything can be proven. Win some you lose some.

Now go to Youtube and type in "Uncle Ruckus."

THAT is racism at it's finest!

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by King_LeYoeNidas
believe it or not, it IS possible that individual coaches may be in fact racist. not to back up or dismiss the given situation but this IS the south and there ARE still bigots out there. Just because "it's UNT" doesn't mean there is "no way" racism doesn't exist there. But the thing is, unless these kids had a recorder, I don't see how anything can be proven. Win some you lose some.

Now go to Youtube and type in "Uncle Ruckus."

THAT is racism at it's finest!
Sorry, I should've included the coaching staff in my rant.

I have a huge problem with racism. Those black kids in Jena, LA were wronged in the worst way, and I honestly believe it has as much to do with a bunch of rednecks in the administration and the police force as anything. There may not be a specific law that says "You can't hang a noose over the tree where a black man is sitting," but there are laws that can cover what they did and that police department should've used them to their fullest extent.

In 30 seconds, without any sort of degree in criminal justice, I came up with:

1.) Terroristic Threats
2.) Hate crimes
3.) Assault

...etc, etc. Like I said in the Jena 6 thread, there may not be a law against peeing in the middle of the street, but I can guarantee that they'd come up with something if they caught me doing it.

On the other hand, the Duke Lacrosse case pisses me off just as much, and it should piss off every black person in the country as much as it pisses me off.

Why?

Because it cheapens something that should be taken extremely seriously.

I think of it along the same lines as making a prank or a joke of your mom's death. There are just some lines you don't cross, and that sorry excuse for a human being stepped way over the line because she felt "cheated." She's like that ex-girlfriend, two years removed, that tells your current fiance that you gave her AIDS when you cheated on her with a hooker, when none of it was true and she just wanted to get revenge for you breaking up with her.

When you read all the articles on this UNT story (and there are tons out there), the evidence against those kids is stacking up. It seems like most of the kids who are speaking out against Dodge have other problems with the team, whether they got kicked off or have just been undisciplined, and those are the first signs that there's a huge problem with the character of the accusers. Furthermore, the black kids that are still on or around the team haven't backed down from the topic. There are no "no comments" or "I'm just here to talk football."

Instead, it's:
-"I don't see a reason for all this," said Miller. "I don't know what they're trying to prove. There's no racial conflict on this team."

-"And I've never seen anybody go to the lengths that Todd has to make sure that the players know they're his kids, not somebody else's. The transition here -- the 'buy-in' -- has been as smooth as any place I've ever been."

-"I'm not going to defend Todd Dodge because he doesn't need to be defended," Villarreal said. "I've seen his actions to this point and the way he conducts his business. His whole goal is to develop young men and young leaders. His performance speaks for itself."

-"I heard about it this morning and was shocked," Miller said. "I have not been a victim of anything like that. Hopefully this will pass over."

-"I am very surprised," Tipps said. "Coach Dodge and that staff are kid-centered. They care not just about winning, but making winners out of kids in life. That would be totally out of character for anyone on that staff, and I know most of them."



So basically, I believe that there's a 2% chance (and that's giving those kids a lot more credit than they seem to deserve) that Dodge and/or his staff are racists and that these kids aren't just kids with huge character flaws, much like that Duke stripper. Basically, I believe that this is the bottom line...

"We brought in Coach Dodge to instill some discipline, to instill an accountability to each other and to the team and sometimes that flies in the face of kids' own wants and the way they want to do things," Villarreal said.

Like I said, if it comes out that these kids were on the money, I'll feel like a complete piece of junk for spewing this crap all over this message board considering that not only do I hate racism as much as anyone, but the fact that my future children will be racially mixed and I just set them back 50 years.

But right now, if it turns out the way I think it will (and after being in the media for a while and knowing what to look for, I'm almost positive it will), I hope these kids get run into the ground by the media the way the prosecutor in the Duke Lacrosse case got run into the ground. The stripper may have got an undeserved "free pass," but that practice should stop right here and right now.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Go Blue
All of them think that Dodge is but they aren't as vocal. I heard the same kind of stories mark.
Sorry, but there's a whole lot of difference in you "hearing stories" and him sitting next to one of players and hearing something come straight out of his mouth.



Russ...... :kiss: :kiss:

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Sorry, but there's a whole lot of difference in you "hearing stories" and him sitting next to one of players and hearing something come straight out of his mouth.



Russ...... :kiss: :kiss: You must have forgotten that we have a player at UNT :p

[Big Papa]

can someone give me the paraphrased version of BDRs post im lazy:D :D ...

oh ok noone..thats fine ill stay out of this convo-sation...too serious for me

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Go Blue
You must have forgotten that we have a player at UNT :p
Or never knew it to begin with :p

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Big Papa
can someone give me the paraphrased version of BDRs post im lazy:D :D ...

oh ok noone..thats fine ill stay out of this convo-sation...too serious for me
I'll do it.

-I don't believe the players. I think they're lazy, selfish, and have a hard time taking criticism/yelling. It's not Dodge's fault momma didn't teach them how to behave or take instruction.

-I think they're trash for playing the race card in a discipline situation.

[King_LeYoeNidas]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I'll do it.

-I don't believe the players. I think they're lazy, selfish, and have a hard time taking criticism/yelling. It's not Dodge's fault momma didn't teach them how to behave or take instruction.

-I think they're trash for playing the race card in a discipline situation.

But....do you know for a FACT they are "playing" a card?

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by King_LeYoeNidas
But....do you know for a FACT they are "playing" a card?
Not for a fact. Go re-read my original post and I said that there's about a 2% chance that they're telling the truth, and if they are I'll feel like crap.

[King_LeYoeNidas]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Not for a fact. Go re-read my original post and I said that there's about a 2% chance that they're telling the truth, and if they are I'll feel like crap.

Fair enough (and I did read that) but as I said as well, it's going to be hard for these kids to prove anything unless a) the accused coach/coaches admit to it or b) they have something on tape.

What are the odds?

I just think that badmouthing these kids when we don't know what's really going on is wrong. It took Dodge a bit of time to initially respond. That itself seems a bit odd.

And for the record, I think the so called Jena 6 thing was a joke. 6 on 1 is more than a "scare tatic." They deserved every bit of jail time they got and should get more IMO.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by King_LeYoeNidas
Fair enough (and I did read that) but as I said as well, it's going to be hard for these kids to prove anything unless a) the accused coach/coaches admit to it or b) they have something on tape.

What are the odds?

I just think that badmouthing these kids when we don't know what's really going on is wrong. It took Dodge a bit of time to initially respond. That itself seems a bit odd.

And for the record, I think the so called Jena 6 thing was a joke. 6 on 1 is more than a "scare tatic." They deserved every bit of jail time they got and should get more IMO.
You're right about them having a hard time proving anything, but I think the damage will be done on the recruiting trail.

The Jena 6 thing actually set me off more than most people. In my head, I just thought of what I would do if my kids were black, had a tree in our front yard that they hung out around, and walked out there one morning to find nooses hanging from them. I would've hunted someone down.

[King_LeYoeNidas]

ok, COLOR ASIDE....what if YOUR KID got jumped by 6 kids, regardless of color? I'm a father. If that happened to my kid, I would be the one in jail. And I'd go with a smile. And yes, even if my kid hung a noose (which btw, is NOT illegal) in a tree, just to be a jack***.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by King_LeYoeNidas
ok, COLOR ASIDE....what if YOUR KID got jumped by 6 kids, regardless of color? I'm a father. If that happened to my kid, I would be the one in jail. And I'd go with a smile. And yes, even if my kid hung a noose (which btw, is NOT illegal) in a tree, just to be a jack***.
If my kid got jumped for hanging a noose in a tree I'd tell him that's what he gets for being a dumb***. I'd let him wallow in his wounded pride, and wouldn't let him know for a second that I had a talk with the kids that did it along with their parents. My dad did that to me, don't see why I'd take another course of action.

Hopefully, I'll never have to worry about my kid acting like that, but kids will be kids. Fortunately, my kids won't have dumb, ignorant parents like the ones in that backwards town. They'll get a dad who's tough as nails and won't give them an inch, especially on the subject of racism (and make no mistake, that situation in Jena was definitely a racist act), but that's about all they get.

If they do something like that, they deserve to get their butts whipped. I've been beat once or twice for being an idiot, and I don't doubt that they will too. Kids will be kids, but they won't get any sympathy from me. Hopefully, I'll teach them right from wrong well enough so that they stand up for kids who are wronged... like the Jena 6.

The kids in Jena obviously just wanted to get into a fist fight to stand up for themselves. They weren't trying to kill the boys, as evidenced when they pulled themselves off of the white kids and took off. When their own administration won't stand up for them, where do they turn?


Originally posted by King_LeYoeNidas
(which btw, is NOT illegal)
Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's right. Anyways, why would you teach your kids that it's OK and why would you even try to justify that? Maybe it's not legal, but I would think that most people would be outraged that there was nothing done rather than justifying it by saying that it is.

Like I said earlier, just because state law doesn't say that it's illegal to pee in the middle of the street doesn't mean they won't find something to write me up for. Indecent exposure, lewd behavior, something.

[sweetwater07]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
If my kid got jumped for hanging a noose in a tree I'd tell him that's what he gets for being a dumb***. I'd let him wallow in his wounded pride, and wouldn't let him know for a second that I had a talk with the kids that did it along with their parents. My dad did that to me, don't see why I'd take another course of action.

Hopefully, I'll never have to worry about my kid acting like that, but kids will be kids. Fortunately, my kids won't have dumb, ignorant parents like the ones in that backwards town. They'll get a dad who's tough as nails and won't give them an inch, especially on the subject of racism (and make no mistake, that situation in Jena was definitely a racist act), but that's about all they get.

If they do something like that, they deserve to get their butts whipped. I've been beat once or twice for being an idiot, and I don't doubt that they will too. Kids will be kids, but they won't get any sympathy from me. Hopefully, I'll teach them right from wrong well enough so that they stand up for kids who are wronged... like the Jena 6.

The kids in Jena obviously just wanted to get into a fist fight to stand up for themselves. They weren't trying to kill the boys, as evidenced when they pulled themselves off of the white kids and took off. When their own administration won't stand up for them, where do they turn?


Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's right. Anyways, why would you teach your kids that it's OK and why would you even try to justify that? Maybe it's not legal, but I would think that most people would be outraged that there was nothing done rather than justifying it by saying that it is.

Like I said earlier, just because state law doesn't say that it's illegal to pee in the middle of the street doesn't mean they won't find something to write me up for. Indecent exposure, lewd behavior, something.


the Jena 6 controversy was a prime example of the double standards regarding races these days, i'm by no means racist and have black friends, but this is a joke, those white kids had every right guranteed to them under the first amendent of free speech to hang that noose, doesn't mean is was right by any means, but it wasn't illegal. On the other hand, what the Jena 6 did, WAS illegal, assaulting the white kids. they deserve whatever a judge or jury decides to hand them, they had no merit to beat those kids down and did it with no thought of the consequences, not to mention like half of those black dudes already had prior violent behavior convictions. If it had been white dudes jumping black dudes, all of them would be in jail by now for a "hate" crime, so why grant these Black kids any special treatment???

double standards:mad:

[Old Tiger]

yawn....
http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/images/602/602__image_09.jpg

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by sweetwater07
the Jena 6 controversy was a prime example of the double standards regarding races these days, i'm by no means racist and have black friends, but this is a joke, those white kids had every right guranteed to them under the first amendent of free speech to hang that noose, doesn't mean is was right by any means, but it wasn't illegal. On the other hand, what the Jena 6 did, WAS illegal, assaulting the white kids. they deserve whatever a judge or jury decides to hand them, they had no merit to beat those kids down and did it with no thought of the consequences, not to mention like half of those black dudes already had prior violent behavior convictions. If it had been white dudes jumping black dudes, all of them would be in jail by now for a "hate" crime, so why grant these Black kids any special treatment???

double standards:mad:
Double standards? So the school administration does nothing about this "prank" and it's a double standard?

Free speech is tempered by responsibility. You can't run into a movie theater and yell, "I've got a gun I'm going to shoot everyone in here!" and expect to get off because of the first amendment.

First Amendment:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. "

This is where we get into my field of study, political science. Freedom of speech actually concerns protests against the government more than what people want to make it out to be today-- that you can say anything you want. If that were the case, the FCC wouldn't be policing our airwaves today.

Even if it was an innocent "prank" with no racial motivation, it was still in poor taste. Given the school's background, it's pretty unlikely that this prank was actually innocent, but a possibility nonetheless. In that situation, wouldn't it still be prudent to punish those white students somehow, even if it was just detention?

But let's take a logical look at the situation. Let's use the common sense that the Good Lord gave us. If it was as innocent as everyone wants to believe it was, why did the group that was targeted take that much offense to an "innocent" prank?

Common sense tells you that it was not innocent at all. Those white kids knew exactly what they were doing and exactly what message those nooses sent. So don't even try to tell me that someone can obviously and blatantly threaten another person and get away with it Scott free, and then they shouldn't be punished at all... by either the police OR the school.

Remember, the principal wanted to punish the white kids. The administration tied his hands.

Again:
1.) Terroristic Threats
2.) Hate Crimes
3.) Assault

I know the Deep South because my family's from there and I've seen the racism first-hand. You hear people poke fun at College Station for being a "hub of racism." College Station is the New Hampshire of the South compared to what goes on in Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama. Of course I've never been on the butt end of it because I'm white, but that doesn't mean I tolerate it.

Back to the issue, it's a double standard when the black kids are punished but the white kids aren't. The only double standard that needs to be discussed is how those black kids beat up that white kid and got their just desserts, but none of the white kids were even given a slap on the hand. THAT'S the double standard. Since the black kids have been punished, there's no reason to even discuss them. They sat in jail and did some time. The white kids didn't.

Now I haven't followed up on Jena, so I don't know if the administration ever caved to media pressure, but the fact of the matter is that even if they did it, they did it after tying up the principal's hands.

I can't change anyone's mind about that, but it was obviously a prank centered around hatred of those black kids. If you have prior prejudices about this kind of situation, you can thank knuckleheads like the UNT players and the Duke stripper for perpetuating those prejudices.

That's why I'm so passionate on both sides of the debate. I think racism is a terrible thing, but that the race card only serves to feed those prejudices. That's why I can't stand the school board in Jena or the Duke stripper. No, it's not politically correct to take that stance, but it's right, and I have no problem standing up for what I believe is right until the day I die.