All-time Texas-born baseball team?

[big daddy russ]

That Beckett thread got me thinking: who would you put on your All-Time Texas-born (or Texas-raised) baseball team? I've got a few guys in mind, but nothing solid. Feel free to add and amend...

SP: Nolan Ryan
SP: Roger Clemens
SP: Greg Maddux
SP: ???
SP: ???

RP: Arthur Rhodes
RP: ???


1B: Lance Berkman????
2B: Rogers Hornsby
SS: Ernie Banks
3B: Eddie Matthews
OF: Tris Speaker
OF: Frank Robinson
OF: Curt Flood???

DH: Adam Dunn???


I probably forgot a few guys and may have mixed some positions up (I keep wanting to say Banks played SS, but the back of my mind is telling me 1B???), but that's a start. I googled it, but didn't come up with anything, so let's make a list.

[g$$]

Banks played SS I believe.

Berkman is from New Braunfels (born in Waco).

I would add Deer Park's Andy Pettitte as SP.
Josh Beckett from Spring has to be close as SP.
Maybe Kerry Wood from Grand Prairie too.
Burt Hooton from Corpus Christi (?) & UT great as SP too for sure.
John Lackey from Abilene as SP too.

Huston Street as RP.
LHP Norm Charlton played at Rice as RP (does that count?)

Chuck Knoblauch (Bellaire/Texas A&M) 2B off the bench.
Carl Crawford as OF from Houston Jeff Davis HS.
James Loney (Dodgers) as OF/1B from Missouri City Elkins HS is rising in the show.

You're off to great start. Most people don't know Greg Maddux is a native Texan, I'm impressed (San Angelo I think). Good thread.

Let me think about more...

[ILS1]

Roger Clemens was actually born in Ohio. But raised in Texas most of his life.


:eek: :eek:

[big daddy russ]

Just remembered Joe Morgan. Forgot all about him.

[buffalo2006]

I would say Beckett and Wood in his prime which was his first 3 or 4 years but if not Wood definitly Pettite

[big daddy russ]

Carl Crawford is from Houston. He'll be in this discussion before too long.

[j_dog]

Max Alvis, 3b from Jasper. Played several years for Cleveland.

[dogdad]

Vernon Wells OF from Everman

[dogdad]

was Dizzy Dean from Texas?
was Rogers Hornsby?

[lakers]

John Lackey from Abilene.

Plays for the angels and has been dominating in recent years.

all ready has a world series ring...

He is a pitcher by the way...

[lakers]

There is also Don Baylor...

[PurplePride2006]

Chuck Knoblauch -- 2b-- From Houston

[big daddy russ]

Whoever said Dizzy Dean-- he spent some time in the Army in San Antonio, but it was after he graduated HS. Born in Arkansas, moved to Oklahoma later on.


Originally posted by PurplePride2006
Chuck Knoblauch -- 2b-- From Houston
We have a good stable of 2b. Knoblauch, Joe Morgan, Rogers Hornsby.


Originally posted by lakers
John Lackey from Abilene.

Plays for the angels and has been dominating in recent years.

all ready has a world series ring...

He is a pitcher by the way...
Good call on Lackey.

[g$$]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Just remembered Joe Morgan. Forgot all about him.

Joe Morgan is from California, but played for the Houston franchise twice. I already said Lackey, Crawford, Knoblauch, Wood, Pettitte, & others above too.

Clemens was born in Ohio but moved to Houston as a young child. Went to Spring Woods HS & was the 3rd best pitcher on staff then (Raynor Noble & Mike Capel were better then, & they played pro ball too). Capel made the bigs & Noble is the Houston Cougars coach. Just fyi.

[crzyjournalist03]

Chris Young of the Padres?

[g$$]

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
Chris Young of the Padres?

Not for all-time team, but he is a Highland Park guy.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by g$$
Joe Morgan is from California, but played for the Houston franchise twice. I already said Lackey, Crawford, Knoblauch, Wood, Pettitte, & others above too.

Clemens was born in Ohio but moved to Houston as a young child. Went to Spring Woods HS & was the 3rd best pitcher on staff then (Raynor Noble & Mike Capel were better then, & they played pro ball too). Capel made the bigs & Noble is the Houston Cougars coach. Just fyi.
Yeah, but Morgan was born in Bonham and lived there until he was six.

And yes you did already mention Lackey and Knoblauch. Already slipped my mind.

[crzyjournalist03]

Doug Drabek?

[g$$]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Yeah, but Morgan was born in Bonham and lived there until he was six.

And yes you did already mention Lackey and Knoblauch. Already slipped my mind.

Good info., I did not know that about Morgan (same hometown as the Bonham Bullet Danny Darwin!). Good thread Russ, keep it going.

[g$$]

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
Doug Drabek?

Close to all-time team (did win a Cy Young with Pirates) but to me not quite. Victoria boy born & bred. Great guy too. Greg Swindell is from Sharpstown in Houston & UT of course.

If son Kyle Drabek recovers from Tommy John surgery, look out. He's with Philly now after being a 1st round pick (RHP/Inf). Kid is a sick athlete.

[Bull Butter]

OF Ron Gant & P Doug Drabek, both from Victoria
RP Joe Nathan, born in Houston

[big daddy russ]

So this is what we have so far...

SP: Nolan Ryan
SP: Roger Clemens
SP: Greg Maddux
SP: Josh Beckett
SP: Andy Pettitte

RP: Arthur Rhodes
RP: Joe Nathan


C: Biz Mackey
1B: Lance Berkman
2B: Rogers Hornsby
3B: Eddie Matthews
SS: Ernie Banks
OF: Tris Speaker
OF: Frank Robinson
OF: Vernon Wells (I already think he's better than Curt Flood)

DH: Joe Morgan


Others:
John Lackey, SP Angels (the first of the young guns who may wind up getting on that list)
Chris Young, SP Padres (if he can stay healthy and have a long career, he may wind up on this list)
Kerry Wood, SP Cubs (if he could've stayed healthy he'd already be on the list. 20 K's as a 20-year-old? Will that ever be topped?)
Burt Hooton, SP Dodgers (Almost there, but I think Pettitte's postseason accomplishments pushes him ahead of Hooton)
Huston Street, RP, A's (One of you was right in saying that Nathan was a better pick than Street)
Adam Dunn, 1B/OF Reds (Would you put him ahead of Berkman or Berkman ahead of him?)
Carl Crawford, OF Devil Rays (Line drive hitter, speed demon, and baserunner who's still young and could easily wind up on the list when it's all said and done. May be better than Wells as of right now, just doesn't have the body of work. Great run producer.)
Curt Flood, OF Astros
Don Baylor, OF Angels, right?

[Bull Butter]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
So this is what we have so far...

RP: Arthur Rhodes
RP: Huston Street




I'd put Joe Nathan ahead of either one of those guys

[g$$]

Great list. Where are Hornsby, Matthews, & Speaker from please?

Berkman is clearly a better overall player than Dunn. Dunn has sick power & walks a lot, but Berkman is a great hitter (he had a down year & still had over 30 HRs & 100+ RBIs). Look at career OPS, etc. Berkman wins out here.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Bull Butter
OF Ron Gant & P Doug Drabek, both from Victoria
RP Joe Nathan, born in Houston
Three more great players, and Nathan may make the list after all.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Bull Butter
I'd put Joe Nathan ahead of either one of those guys

I don't remember Joe Nathan being from Houston. Did he go to hs here? Guess maybe born, but...

[crzyjournalist03]

I'd like to submit Biz Mackey as the catcher:

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers/detail.jsp?playerId=506632

[Bull Butter]

If this team was ever to play against the Astros, Ron Gant would be certain to be on that team. Gant probably had half of his 326 career HR againt Houston (Or it certainly seemed like it)

[g$$]

Burt "Happy" Hooton still has career records at Texas, & he was a great pitcher for Dodgers. Filthy knuckle-curve. Maybe in next cut, but very close.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
I'd like to submit Biz Mackey as the catcher:

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers/detail.jsp?playerId=506632
I'll second that notion. Never heard of Mackey, but I forgot all about C and he seems as good a nomination as we've had so far.

[big daddy russ]

A whole lot of Negro League Players who made it to the Hall of Fame were born in Texas.

link (http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/playerModule.do)

[Balcones fault]

Norm Cash, 1B, Detroit Tigers in the 50's and 60's. American League batting champion in 1961. From Justiceburg or somesuch, played JC ball in San Angelo, I believe.

He might not be the best Texas first baseman, but he would certainly liven up the party.

[crzyjournalist03]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I'll second that notion. Never heard of Mackey, but I forgot all about C and he seems as good a nomination as we've had so far.

I hadn't either until I searched the Baseball hall of fame for Texas-born players...there are two Texan catchers, and Mackey seems like he was the more highly regarded.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Balcones fault
Norm Cash, 1B, Detroit Tigers in the 50's and 60's. American League batting champion in 1961. From Justiceburg or somesuch, played JC ball in San Angelo, I believe.

He might not be the best Texas first baseman, but he would certainly liven up the party.

Good choice, forgot about him. Split time at DH on team or 1B. He took a piano leg to plate one time against Nolan Ryan. Said he couldn't hit him with wooden bat so wanted to try that! Obviously was not allowed, but great story.

[big daddy russ]

Some more that deserve consideration, though maybe don't belong on the list
Manager Mike Hargrove

Detroit SP Schoolboy Rowe (I'd even put him ahead of Pettitte)
Detroit SP Rip Collins
Senators SP Firpo Marberry (Five-time 15-game winner, lifetime ERA of 3.63.)
Devil Rays SP Scott Kazmir (Definitely on the list of up-and-comers... Just forgot about him in my list above)
Nationals SP John Patterson (See Kazmir)
Indians RP Mike Jackson
Detroit 1B Cecil Cooper
White Sox 1B Eddie Robinson
Padres SS Gary Templeton
Royals SS Freddie Patek (OK, he's only on here because he was the shortest player in the majors for a decade and a half.)
Blue Jays 3B Kelly Gruber (OK, so he's not an all-time great, but he's one of my favorite all-time players)
Detroit OF Norm Cash
Giants OF Jo-Jo Moore
White Sox OF Bibb Falk
Astros OF Hunter Pence??? (Could wind up being better than Wells)
Reds OF Curt Walker
Yankees UTIL Randy Velarde (Doesn't belong on the all-time list, but I think he's the only player on the list with an unassisted triple play?)

Useful Link (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/birthplace.php?loc=Texas)



Originally posted by g$$
Great list. Where are Hornsby, Matthews, & Speaker from please.
Hornsby- Winters, TX
Matthews- Texarakana, TX
Speaker- Hubbard, TX

[g$$]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Some more that deserve consideration, though maybe don't belong on the list
Manager Mike Hargrove

Detroit SP Schoolboy Rowe (I'd even put him ahead of Pettitte)
Detroit SP Rip Collins
Senators SP Firpo Marberry (Five-time 15-game winner, lifetime ERA of 3.63.)
Devil Rays SP Scott Kazmir (Definitely on the list of up-and-comers... Just forgot about him in my list above)
Nationals SP John Patterson (See Kazmir)
Indians RP Mike Jackson
Detroit 1B Cecil Cooper
White Sox 1B Eddie Robinson
Padres SS Gary Templeton
Royals SS Freddie Patek (OK, he's only on here because he was the shortest player in the majors for a decade and a half.)
Blue Jays 3B Kelly Gruber (OK, so he's not an all-time great, but he's one of my favorite all-time players)
Detroit OF Norm Cash
Giants OF Jo-Jo Moore
White Sox OF Bibb Falk
Astros OF Hunter Pence??? (Could wind up being better than Wells)
Reds OF Curt Walker
Yankees UTIL Randy Velarde (Doesn't belong on the all-time list, but I think he's the only player on the list with an unassisted triple play?)

Useful Link (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/birthplace.php?loc=Texas)



Hornsby- Winters, TX
Matthews- Texarakana, TX
Speaker- Hubbard, TX

Thanks Russ, lots of good info.

Cecil Cooper played for Red Sox & Brewers, right? From Independence, TX outside of Brenham. Fine hitter in his day, lifetime .300 hitter. Hope he can manage now too!

Another guy to watch: OF Jay Bruce with Reds from Beaumont West Brook. Kid can play & will be in majors at some point next year (homered in Futures Game). Great list Russ.

[g$$]

Any scout will tell you the 2 biggest hotbeds for baseball talent are Texas (esp. Houston Area) & Southern California. Florida also turns them out too. Weather, year round ball, good instruction, & population all help produce quality talent.