Tuscola Teacher/Coach in trouble because of book? [Archive]

KTJ

10-24-2007, 02:29 PM

Wow. The parents of this kid really need to lighten up. Either that, or take their kid out of society. If the parents think this book is "too much for their ninth grader", I'd hate to see their little ninth grader when it's time for he/she to go into the real world.

Torbush.

Complaint Puts Texas Teacher on Leave

By ANGELA K. BROWN
Associated Press Writer

Buy AP Photo Reprints

TUSCOLA, Texas (AP) -- A popular English teacher has been placed on paid leave - and faces possible criminal charges - after a student's parents complained to police that a ninth-grade class reading list contained a book about a murderer who has sex with his victims' bodies.

Kaleb Tierce, 25, is being investigated for allegedly distributing harmful material to a minor after the student selected Pulitzer Prize-winning novelist Cormac McCarthy's "Child of God" off the list and read it.

Tierce, a third-year teacher and assistant football coach at Jim Ned High School, has not been arrested, but his case has caused an uproar in this West Texas town of 700 people. Last week, more than 120 parents and students crowded into a meeting where the school board voted to keep Tierce on paid leave.

Most parents say Tierce should be reinstated, regardless of whether the book is too graphic for teens.

"He's a great teacher and coach and motivates the kids like no one else can," said Chris Garcia, whose daughter was in one of Tierce's classes. "If you're trying to protect your kids from things in books, you may as well turn off the TV and video games. You try to protect them as much as you can, but these days kids are just exposed to so much."

Tierce, who has not been charged with any wrongdoing, declined to comment when asked by The Associated Press about the allegations.

Some students and athletes have worn armbands to school and football games emblazoned with Tierce's initials, hiding them under clothing. Others said teens were meeting secretly to decide how to help the teacher they believe did nothing wrong.

"He was the only one who understood us," said Patrisha Ramirez, 15. "He would joke around. He would make English interesting, for once."

In Tuscola, south of Abilene, "Child of God" was on a list of titles compiled by all of the high school English teachers for a pre-Advanced Placement class.

Although administrators' approval was not required for the list, school officials have since removed the book because they deemed it inappropriate for ninth-graders.

The book tells the story of a town's outsider who is falsely accused of rape, then begins killing people. The character ends up living in a cave with his victims' decomposing bodies. The 1974 novel "plumbs the depths of human degradation," according to its back cover.

The parents of one ninth-grade student filed a police report on Oct. 1 with the Taylor County Sheriff's Office earlier this month. Before contacting law enforcement officials, they complained to the teacher and principal, said district Superintendent Kent LeFevre, who declined to reveal their discussions.

The superintendent placed Tierce on administrative leave on Oct. 9.

Sheriff's Sgt. John Cummins said the case will be turned over to the district attorney once the investigation is complete. Distributing harmful material to a minor is a misdemeanor punishable by up to a year in jail and a $4,000 fine.

Book controversies in schools and libraries are nothing new, but it's rare for teachers to be disciplined over them.

In 2005, a seventh-grade teacher in Grand Rapids, Mich., was suspended and later transferred to another school after a parent complained about a classroom reading of "Telephone Man," a story about prejudice containing racial slurs.

Parents have sought to ban various books, including John Steinbeck's "Of Mice and Men" and J.K. Rowling's "Harry Potter" series, as well as books on Cuba or gay penguins, according to the American Library Association. Last year, schools or public libraries received nearly 550 requests to remove books, the Chicago-based association said.

"When you get to book cases where someone has a difference of opinion, you have to honor these things," said former teacher Linda Bridges, who is president of the Texas American Federation of Teachers, a 57,000-member union, of which Tierce is not a member. "But if a book has been vetted and approved by the district, then the teacher has done nothing

THE LINK (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BOOK_CONTROVERSY?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US)

Johnny Utah

10-24-2007, 02:35 PM

The Bible Belt of Texas. I see nothing wrong with it. Looks to me as if the Admin of the school needs a backbone and do the right thing in the teachers behalf! This is what our world is coming to and this is scary folks!

LH Panther Mom

10-24-2007, 02:42 PM

:thinking: :thinking: Am I the only one thinking there must be more to this story? If the English DEPARTMENT compiled the list, why is there only ONE teacher getting the backlash?

Phil C

10-24-2007, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by Johnny Utah
The Bible Belt of Texas. I see nothing wrong with it. Looks to me as if the Admin of the school needs a backbone and do the right thing in the teachers behalf! This is what our world is coming to and this is scary folks!

Johnny I admire the Baptist Church.

buff4life

10-24-2007, 02:49 PM

You've got to be kidding me right...geez talk about sheltering your kid...wonder what the parents told the kid about why he existed period...i bet they have everything in their house bubble-wrapped so the child won't get a "boo-boo"

RedWhiteBlue

10-24-2007, 02:50 PM

Personal Opinion- If my child picks a book off of an approved list in their English class and starts reading it and decides.... "hey, this is kind-of freaky I probably shouldn't read this". Then they need to take it back and choose another book. Same thing with tv, radio, internet, etc. At some point in life you have to let your kids go and hope they make good choices based on how you have brought them up- beliefs, values, etc.
The parents going to law enforcement totally lost me- what happened to channels????

Bull19

10-24-2007, 02:53 PM

it said the STUDENT selected the book off the list.......so doesnt this mean the student had a choice of books to pick from?

g$$

10-24-2007, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by KTJ

Torbush.

Way too much time spent on Horn Fans buddy. Torbush has been long gone, & others will follow soon.

Nice running game too btw. Your season is nothing to brag about either.

Wow (as in Utah game video).

crzyjournalist03

10-24-2007, 02:54 PM

high schoolers reading books about sex and highschoolers reading books about people having sex with corpses are two completely different things IMO...I sure wouldn't want to read that book, let alone have one of my kids read the book.

crzyjournalist03

10-24-2007, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by RedWhiteBlue
Personal Opinion- If my child picks a book off of an approved list in their English class and starts reading it and decides.... "hey, this is kind-of freaky I probably shouldn't read this". Then they need to take it back and choose another book. Same thing with tv, radio, internet, etc. At some point in life you have to let your kids go and hope they make good choices based on how you have brought them up- beliefs, values, etc.
The parents going to law enforcement totally lost me- what happened to channels????

maybe I should back up my post above...if this wasn't done, then that's definitely a proper course of action. But if it turns out that the student and parents approached the teacher and admin (as it appears they may have in earlier meetings) and the teacher refused to back down and told the child to stick with the book since that was the one that was chosen in the first place, then I'm fine with disciplinary action, especially considering that the book was removed from the list.

lakers

10-24-2007, 03:04 PM

the books that the teachers choose are from a list that have been selected from a committee, there is nothing wrong with what he did...

Why didnt the parents inform the school district first instead of going straight after the teacher???

That seems like some bs to me, no wonder people dont want to be teacher anymore, they get paid horrible wages, now they have to renew their teaching certificate every few years, and they have to put up with crap like this...

Maybe it isnt the teachers problem, it is the parents problem...

Cameron Crazy

10-24-2007, 03:10 PM

That is rediculous. Really. :clap:

BobcatBenny

10-24-2007, 03:30 PM

The Teacher/Student/Parent/Law relationship is a very complicated situation.

We are a nation of laws and if a teacher individually or teachers collectively included a book that should be considered pornographic, then the due course of law needs to be followed.

Hopefully, justice prevails.

ronwx5x

10-24-2007, 03:33 PM

It's also a travesty that the teacher has been on paid leave since Oct. 9, over two weeks. How long does it take to investigate such a baseless accusation? This was not a unilateral decision on the part of a teacher to require that his students read a particular book. It was a a book selected from a list prepared by committee. The parents could have simply told their child to return the book and select a different one. They chose to escalate rather solve a perceived problem.

The complaint should be to the committee that compiled the list, not an individual teacher. Surely there is something we are not hearing as the teacher is clearly not the one at fault. I wonder if there would be an outcry if this same teacher had decided (on his own) to not allow his students to read and report on this or any other book on the "approved" list? What would be the difference?

I can only attribute this entire problem to "small minds" or just mean people.

RedWhiteBlue

10-24-2007, 03:34 PM

The book was from an approved list and the student chose the book. The teacher/ coach is on paid leave by the school board and is currently under investigation by the Taylor County Sheriff's Department for allegedly providing the book to the girl because it came from his class and not the school library (because it was not available there, but had been ordered).

Johnny Utah

10-24-2007, 03:36 PM

Bobcat and Crazy Journalist. Both of you are WRONG! We are talking about a BOOK! If it was on the list, the list was approved by the school, teachers, admin, etc... The teacher is not at fault! If the parents do not want the child reading it, so be it. Taking legal action against the teacher for providing a list of books to read is why our society is going down the crapper! Everyone has 1st Amendment rights in our country UNTIL someone is hurt! You have got to be kidding me! Justice, talk about injustice here! Phil C, Bible Belt in that area is mostly Church of Christ my friend! Okay, I feel better now. Man, a topic like this will get me fired up. Home school your child if you do not want them to read stuff like this. IT IS A PULITZER PRIZE WINNING BOOK!!! Your the parent, tell the teacher you do not approve, they wont read it, but taking legal action. CRAZYNESS!!!!

KTJ

10-24-2007, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by g$$
Way too much time spent on Horn Fans buddy. Torbush has been long gone, & others will follow soon.

Nice running game too btw. Your season is nothing to brag about either.

Wow (as in Utah game video).

Uh...what?

BobcatBenny

10-24-2007, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by Johnny Utah
Bobcat and Crazy Journalist. Both of you are WRONG! We are talking about a BOOK! If it was on the list, the list was approved by the school, teachers, admin, etc... The teacher is not at fault! If the parents do not want the child reading it, so be it. Taking legal action against the teacher for providing a list of books to read is why our society is going down the crapper! Everyone has 1st Amendment rights in our country UNTIL someone is hurt! You have got to be kidding me! Justice, talk about injustice here! Phil C, Bible Belt in that area is mostly Church of Christ my friend! Okay, I feel better now. Man, a topic like this will get me fired up. Home school your child if you do not want them to read stuff like this. IT IS A PULITZER PRIZE WINNING BOOK!!! Your the parent, tell the teacher you do not approve, they wont read it, but taking legal action. CRAZYNESS!!!!
No I am not wrong at all. Now it appears to me that this is a criminal case. If this teacher is innocent, then there will be no injustice. The wheels of justice just do not turn to meet our American instant gratuitous desires. Thank goodness.

If this were a civil case, then you may be correct, but this looks like criminal proceedings.

Being a teacher is not an excuse to distribute what may be pornographic materials whether it is as an individual or a collective group.

(In the form of yelling) IT IS N-O-T A PULITZER PRIZE WINNING BOOK! . . . AND YOU FAIL THE READING COMPREHENSION PORTION OF THIS THREAD!

SWMustang

10-24-2007, 04:52 PM

wish my boss would tell me to take two weeks off with pay...

RedWhiteBlue

10-24-2007, 11:00 PM

Originally posted by BobcatBenny
No I am not wrong at all. Now it appears to me that this is a criminal case. If this teacher is innocent, then there will be no injustice. The wheels of justice just do not turn to meet our American instant gratuitous desires. Thank goodness.

If this were a civil case, then you may be correct, but this looks like criminal proceedings.

Being a teacher is not an excuse to distribute what may be pornographic materials whether it is as an individual or a collective group.

(In the form of yelling) IT IS N-O-T A PULITZER PRIZE WINNING BOOK! . . . AND YOU FAIL THE READING COMPREHENSION PORTION OF THIS THREAD!
You have got to be kidding- right? Playing devil's advocate or something?

JR2004

10-24-2007, 11:08 PM

Originally posted by KTJ
Uh...what?

Who knows what in the world that rant was about. It came from way out in left field.

JR2004

10-24-2007, 11:10 PM

After reading about what this book dealt with, I don't think it should've been on the list. If the entire English department approved it being on there then they should all share in the responsibility.

wildstangs

10-24-2007, 11:20 PM

Two accusers have now come forward and said they had an improper relationship with the coach.

RedWhiteBlue

10-24-2007, 11:52 PM

Originally posted by wildstangs
Two accusers have now come forward and said they had an improper relationship with the coach.
Then that is a whole other issue and could have criminal ramifications. But should have nothing to do with the book issue.

Phantom Stang

10-24-2007, 11:55 PM

Only in America:D :

********************************************
Waiting list for 'Child of God'

"Child of God," a book that a Big Country parent alleges was inappropriately supplied to students, has become a hot commodity in local book stores.

"We're trying to get an emergency order in," said Bob Houy, store manager of Hastings Books Music and Video. "We phoned it in last night."

Houy said about 20 people requested the controversial Cormac McCarthy novel on Tuesday.

"We don't have it, either," said Jamie Marquette, merchandising specialist for Books A Million.

Marquette said she is telling customers the goal is to have the book in by Oct. 25.

"That's the earliest we can have it," Marquette said.

Houy and Marquette said their stores are caught off guard when books, such as "Child of God," are talked about in newspapers and on TV. They soon, after media discussions, become hot commodities.

A search of Abilene libraries using the Abilene Public Library's Web site shows that the McMurry University library has one copy of the book, and it is checked out.

The book became a topic of discussion this week when the parent of a Jim Ned Consolidated Independent School District ninth-grader publicly complained that it was inappropriate for students.

(Staff writer Sarah Kleiner Varble contributed to this report.)

http://www.reporternews.com/news/2007/oct/16/teacher-could-face-charges-over-book/

BobcatBenny

10-25-2007, 12:39 AM

Originally posted by RedWhiteBlue
You have got to be kidding- right? Playing devil's advocate or something?
Not entirely. I doubt seriously that any criminal charges will be brought over the book. . . . But if it is about what the newspaper reports, the teachers were grossly in err for putting it on a list for high school students.

The teacher should have immediately back peddled when the parents complained to him and the administration.

Teachers have a tough job, but that does not mean they are always right. In this case, it sounds like the parents were correct. Some books are not appropriate reading for minors.

Oh yeah, the author of the book won a $10,000 Pulitzer prize for another weird fictonal book titled, "The Road". He wrote about a father and son that were trying to survive after a nuclear war or something.

2007 Cormac McCarthy Pulitzer Prize for "The Road" (http://www.pulitzer.org/cgi-bin/query.cgi?E=1&X=0&searchtype=1&Q=Cormac+McCarthy&FormsCheckbox1=1&words=0&case=1&FormsButton2=Search)

"Child of God" is not a Pulitzer Prize winning work.

g$$

10-25-2007, 03:32 AM

Originally posted by JR2004
Who knows what in the world that rant was about. It came from way out in left field.

No it did not. Stupid use of the word "Torbush" from www.hornfans.com fame. Man has been gone for 2+ years.

Horns use it to mean "wow" from his infamous mouthing of the words during the Utah game on ESPN like 3 years ago. Just tired act, that's all. Get a new line. Horns are not exactly a juggernaut this year either. Ags will have a new coach soon. "Torbush" back at you.

KTJ: you knew exactly what I meant.

Ingleside Fan

10-25-2007, 04:59 AM

I would not want my 13-14 year old ninth grader to read about a Murder that has sex with the dead body of the victims.

The English department should have looked at their choice of books a little closer.

The teacher should have not been arrested, but someone should explain why this type of book was allow to be put on the list.

themsu97

10-25-2007, 05:54 AM

obviously, most of you are not teachers and have never been in the education realm.... it is from a list that is approved by the school board... so why aren't the school board members on leave? and administration?
bet money the daughter was failing or making a bad grade in the class...

daughter did not have to choose the book, and she could have picked out another one...

what's next, Huckleberry Finn? Uncle TOm's Cabin?

18handicap

10-25-2007, 06:48 AM

As an English teacher and coach, I understand what all of you are saying. Our department has an approved list of books and videos that relate to the themes that are taught in class. We send the list home to the parents for them to sign that they approve or disapprove of the list individually, or as a whole. On an individual reading assignment, if a student has a problem with the book that he/she chose, I let them change it.

I don't know why he would have been suspended. There has to be more than that.

big daddy russ

10-25-2007, 07:34 AM

I'd like to know the whole story here.

At face value, the teacher is not to blame. Like everyone else has said, it was chosen from a book list, but it seems like the parents were quick to find somewhere to place the blame.

Everyone is raised with different sets of values and limits, and in many households, books like this are considered OK as long as they are educational in purpose. If the book offended the family, all they needed to do was put it back.

Again, just face value and not knowing all sides of the story, the family comes across as petty and selfish.

On that note, I can see how a family with a 15-year-old student wouldn't want their kid reading something like this. Maturity comes into play in a big way, and kids that age may not be ready for this type of book. It's the same reason that Jewish children didn't get to read "Song of Solomon" until they were 12. Reading a book about sex and the proper way to get your new bride in the mood doesn't do a nine-year-old much good. At that age, they can't put its meaning into context.

The proper way to handle this, in my opinion, isn't to crucify the teacher, but to take the proper steps with the school board to have the book moved up a few grades to where the students can have a better grasp of the material.

Again, though, did the teacher say something to anger the parents? What went on behind the scenes that we're not seeing?

One more thing, I don't understand this...

In 2005, a seventh-grade teacher in Grand Rapids, Mich., was suspended and later transferred to another school after a parent complained about a classroom reading of "Telephone Man," a story about prejudice containing racial slurs.

Parents have sought to ban various books, including John Steinbeck's "Of Mice and Men" and J.K. Rowling's "Harry Potter" series, as well as books on Cuba or gay penguins, according to the American Library Association. Last year, schools or public libraries received nearly 550 requests to remove books, the Chicago-based association said.

"When you get to book cases where someone has a difference of opinion, you have to honor these things," said former teacher Linda Bridges, who is president of the Texas American Federation of Teachers, a 57,000-member union, of which Tierce is not a member. "But if a book has been vetted and approved by the district, then the teacher has done nothing

...Why are people trying to ban "Of Mice and Men?" We read it when I was a freshman. As far as I know, most schools read it when they're freshmen. It's a bit vulgar and has murder, but nothign a 15-year-old shouldn't be able to handle. Nothing like this book.

KTJ

10-25-2007, 07:44 AM

Originally posted by g$$
No it did not. Stupid use of the word "Torbush" from www.hornfans.com fame. Man has been gone for 2+ years.

Horns use it to mean "wow" from his infamous mouthing of the words during the Utah game on ESPN like 3 years ago. Just tired act, that's all. Get a new line. Horns are not exactly a juggernaut this year either. Ags will have a new coach soon. "Torbush" back at you.

KTJ: you knew exactly what I meant.

Uh, the way you worded that post, no, no I didn't know what you meant.

Why does using Torbush upset you and what does that have to do with any record by UT or A&M? Why even bring that up in this post when my original post was about a teacher in Tuscola in trouble over a book.

Seems like you're trying to instigate something that isn't there and you, g-money, know that wasn't my intention yet you're blaming me for it.

Anywho....

Ranger Mom

10-25-2007, 08:03 AM

It doesn't really sound like appropriate reading material to me for a 15 y/o....I wouldn't want to read it either!!

BUT.....to turn to law enforcement???

I'm with whoever said it above, there HAS to be more to the story!!!

JR2004

10-25-2007, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by g$$
No it did not. Stupid use of the word "Torbush" from www.hornfans.com fame. Man has been gone for 2+ years.

Horns use it to mean "wow" from his infamous mouthing of the words during the Utah game on ESPN like 3 years ago. Just tired act, that's all. Get a new line. Horns are not exactly a juggernaut this year either. Ags will have a new coach soon. "Torbush" back at you.

KTJ: you knew exactly what I meant.

I knew what it meant. Your ridiculous reaction is out of left field.

Find a thread where someone actually cares about that. This thread is about a Jim Ned teacher who is probably about to be in some really hot water.

District303aPastPlayer

10-25-2007, 08:32 AM

Originally posted by Bull19
it said the STUDENT selected the book off the list.......so doesnt this mean the student had a choice of books to pick from?

Yes it did... and am I the only one who will actually read the back cover before i start a book?

Ranger Mom

10-25-2007, 08:35 AM

Originally posted by District303aPastPlayer
Yes it did... and am I the only one who will actually read the back cover before i start a book?

I do....if the back cover doesn't "reel me in" I won't read it!:)

pancho villa

10-25-2007, 08:35 AM

First if you raise your kids right reading something a little different won't hurt them. Second I don't want any one determing what I, or my kids read. Those people who filed the law siut are narrow minded trailer trash.

District303aPastPlayer

10-25-2007, 08:37 AM

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
I do....if the back cover doesn't "reel me in" I won't read it!:)

true, so I am wondering why a teacher is being punished over a students decision to read a book...

Originally posted by pancho villa
First if you raise your kids right reading something a little different won't hurt them. Second I don't want any one determing what I, or my kids read. Those people who filed the law siut are narrow minded trailer trash.
:D

Ranger Mom

10-25-2007, 08:39 AM

Thinking back.....IF my kids were ever sent home with a list of books to read that I had to approve, I guess I must have approved it.

I NEVER researched anything that they had to read......

Was that bad of me???

DDBooger

10-25-2007, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
Thinking back.....IF my kids were ever sent home with a list of books to read that I had to approve, I guess I must have approved it.

I NEVER researched anything that they had to read......

Was that bad of me??? well, you probably should have but i don't think you're a bad mom! :)

Hey I read American Psycho, and i turned out fine, and if you think the movie was bad! whew! I found the disturbing story as interesting as the 80s background that it captured so well...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Psycho

IHS Fan

10-25-2007, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by BobcatBenny

Hopefully, justice prevails.

if justice does prevail, then he should be teaching again soon.

KTJ

10-25-2007, 09:50 AM

So will this kid not be allowed by his/her parents to read To Kill A Mockingbird or I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings?

Are those too risque as well? What about Harry Potter?

RedWhiteBlue

10-25-2007, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by IHS Fan
if justice does prevail, then he should be teaching again soon.
Hopefully so, but this ALWAYS has a huge impact on a teaching and coaching career even if your innocent.......

IHS Fan

10-25-2007, 10:00 AM

Originally posted by RedWhiteBlue
Hopefully so, but this ALWAYS has a huge impact on a teaching and coaching career even if your innocent.......

teaching is the most thankless job in history. you always hear when a teacher is accused of something such as this, but you never hear anything when they are cleared. this guy will probably go on to have a good career in teaching, but this incident will ride his butt forever.

crzyjournalist03

10-25-2007, 10:00 AM

I really don't think some of you are reading this right...let me highlight a few things here:

In Tuscola, south of Abilene, "Child of God" was on a list of titles compiled by all of the high school English teachers for a pre-Advanced Placement class.

Although administrators' approval was not required for the list, school officials have since removed the book because they deemed it inappropriate for ninth-graders.

The parents of one ninth-grade student filed a police report on Oct. 1 with the Taylor County Sheriff's Office earlier this month. Before contacting law enforcement officials, they complained to the teacher and principal, said district Superintendent Kent LeFevre, who declined to reveal their discussions.

For those of you questioning the administration, notice that they did NOT approve the book, and actually removed the book so that children WOULDN'T read it.

And for those of you complaining about the parents going "straight to law enforcement" that's not what happened either. The teacher and principal both had discussions with the parents before the parents decided to get legal action involved. I seriously doubt that the teacher apologized and offered to let the student choose another book, but the parents were still ticked off and went to law enforcement. There's the back story that BDR mentioned...I don't see how anybody can be outraged at the teacher being put on leave without knowing what the teacher did when he was approached about the book.

mustang68

10-25-2007, 10:09 AM

Originally posted by themsu97
obviously, most of you are not teachers and have never been in the education realm.... it is from a list that is approved by the school board... so why aren't the school board members on leave? and administration?
bet money the daughter was failing or making a bad grade in the class...

daughter did not have to choose the book, and she could have picked out another one...

what's next, Huckleberry Finn? Uncle TOm's Cabin?

Actually Huckelberry Finn has been banned in many locations, and as time goes on I find it(Huckelberry) more difficult to teach, especially with the move to political correctness.
The use of the "N" word seems to longer be acceptabl, even from a book written in the nineteenth century depicting a way of life.
There must be much more to this story than has made the news.

Ranger Mom

10-25-2007, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
I really don't think some of you are reading this right...let me highlight a few things here:

In Tuscola, south of Abilene, "Child of God" was on a list of titles compiled by all of the high school English teachers for a pre-Advanced Placement class.

Although administrators' approval was not required for the list, school officials have since removed the book because they deemed it inappropriate for ninth-graders.

The parents of one ninth-grade student filed a police report on Oct. 1 with the Taylor County Sheriff's Office earlier this month. Before contacting law enforcement officials, they complained to the teacher and principal, said district Superintendent Kent LeFevre, who declined to reveal their discussions.

For those of you questioning the administration, notice that they did NOT approve the book, and actually removed the book so that children WOULDN'T read it.

And for those of you complaining about the parents going "straight to law enforcement" that's not what happened either. The teacher and principal both had discussions with the parents before the parents decided to get legal action involved. I seriously doubt that the teacher apologized and offered to let the student choose another book, but the parents were still ticked off and went to law enforcement. There's the back story that BDR mentioned...I don't see how anybody can be outraged at the teacher being put on leave without knowing what the teacher did when he was approached about the book.

Hence, several of our "there has to be more to this story" posts!!;)

BobcatBenny

10-25-2007, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
I really don't think some of you are reading this right...let me highlight a few things here:. . .
Crazy,
You are correct. People only want to read what they want and the media uses that to create outrage and drama.

Let me give you a few non-journalistic observations.

Teacher = Angel
Parents = Satan
all of the high school English teachers = some massive body of intellectuals (in Jim Ned, the coach and three other teachers)
Pulitzer Prize winning author = Beyond Reproach
Student = Not a child
Administration = All Knowing
Law = Heavy Handed
Suspened with Pay = Fired

Put the proper mix on that soup and you can sensationalize and evoke the reaction you desire from the flock.

In this case, the desired reaction . . . outrage.

This was not unbiased reporting. This was sensationalization.

But if you actually read the article and consider the facts you can understand that the parents took the correct course of action and the teacher or teachers made a big mistake.

If you dumped People and Penthouse magazines in front of a high school, do you know what you get? . . . . . . A high school with a bunch of People magazines laying in front of it! :D

Benny

RedWhiteBlue

10-25-2007, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by BobcatBenny
Crazy,
You are correct. People only want to read what they want and the media uses that to create outrage and drama.

Let me give you a few non-journalistic observations.

Teacher = Angel
Parents = Satan
all of the high school English teachers = some massive body of intellectuals (in Jim Ned, the coach and three other teachers)
Pulitzer Prize winning author = Beyond Reproach
Student = Not a child
Administration = All Knowing
Law = Heavy Handed
Suspened with Pay = Fired

Put the proper mix on that soup and you can sensationalize and evoke the reaction you desire from the flock.

In this case, the desired reaction . . . outrage.

This was not unbiased reporting. This was sensationalization.

But if you actually read the article and consider the facts you can understand that the parents took the correct course of action and the teacher or teachers made a big mistake.

If you dumped People and Penthouse magazines in front of a high school, do you know what you get? . . . . . . A high school with a bunch of People magazines laying in front of it! :D

Benny
Your opinion has been noted. I agree with everybody else- there are a great deal of facts that we do not have or know. Our information is coming from the media- which tells us what they want us to know. I speak from personal experience about that.

BobcatBenny

10-25-2007, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by RedWhiteBlue
Your opinion has been noted. I agree with everybody else- there are a great deal of facts that we do not have or know. Our information is coming from the media- which tells us what they want us to know. I speak from personal experience about that.
Roweena,
I think I luuuuvvv eeeeuuuuwwww!

I am goin to dem woods to fetch me some rocks to throw at your house!

Luuuvvv,
Ernest T. Bass
http://www.jodysgarage.com/images/funny/griffith/ernest.jpg

RedWhiteBlue

10-25-2007, 03:10 PM

That just proved how much your opinions are worth as if there were any doubt in my mind before.....

RedWhiteBlue

10-25-2007, 03:13 PM

By the way, you aren't even on the same level as Andy Griffith or Barney Fife in my book...........

BobcatBenny

10-25-2007, 03:15 PM

Word

vet93

10-25-2007, 03:55 PM

I hate to say it and if questioned in a court of law I would likely have to deny it....but I actually agree with some of Bobcat Benny's observations on this one.....

Buccaneer

10-25-2007, 05:46 PM

I am just shocked about the gay penguins!

sinton66

10-25-2007, 08:48 PM

Originally posted by Buccaneer
I am just shocked about the gay penguins!

Did you know that our wonderful government once granted a bunch of money to a California University to study homosexuality in seagulls?

coachc45

10-25-2007, 10:17 PM

The advanced placement test is administered by a national organization. It allows students the opportunity to receive college credit through their test. Every year they release a list of books that could be on the test. That list is then distributed to ap and pre ap students for out of class reading. This book was probably never even read by the teachers, it was most likely given out because a reputable organization suggested it could be on the test. In that case, it is an oversight by the school and the teachers. Most people recognize that an organization such as the one in charge of Advanced Placement tests, is reputable and trustworthy enough to trust their list.

2nd, I truly think that the parents of this kid are way out of line. In our country we have certain rights. If they are going to sue this teacher/organization then who is next....... the local minister? Believe it or not, many people find the bible offensive. If we are to be forced, as educators, to only use books that no one objects to than there is a good chance that no one will ever read anything!!!!!!!!!!!

BobcatBenny

10-25-2007, 11:02 PM

Originally posted by coachc45
. . . , I truly think that the parents of this kid are way out of line. In our country we have certain rights. If they are going to sue this teacher/organization then who is next....... the local minister? Believe it or not, many people find the bible offensive. If we are to be forced, as educators, to only use books that no one objects to than there is a good chance that no one will ever read anything!!!!!!!!!!!
You are right in general, but there is not a suit, going on in this case. It was turned over to law enforcement to investigate. I think the parents made the right call on that point. If a law was broken, which it very well may have been, then there may be a precedence set.

I doubt seriously any charges are brought in this case, but just like the "Good" book is being pressured out of our schools, I am going to take the side of "Bad" books being kept out of our schools too. And believe it or not, there are some parts of the Bible that are not meant for kids (IMO).

coachc45

10-25-2007, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by BobcatBenny
You are right in general, but there is not a suit, going on in this case. It was turned over to law enforcement to investigate. I think the parents made the right call on that point. If a law was broken, which it very well may have been, then there may be a precedence set.

I doubt seriously any charges are brought in this case, but just like the "Good" book is being pressured out of our schools, I am going to take the side of "Bad" books being kept out of our schools too. And believe it or not, there are some parts of the Bible that are not meant for kids (IMO).

You are correct that no one has sued anyone, yet.... but you and I both know that most of the time that a police report is filed it is later to be used as evidence in a civil trial.

Also, what law "very well may have been broken"? I don't know any law that states that you can't recommend a book to be read. it may be distasteful..... but it is hardly criminal!!!! And Please don't use the term Pornography, there is nothing pornographic in saying that someone had sex with a corpse, it is only pornographic if graphic details were provided..... and in this they were not.

BobcatBenny

10-25-2007, 11:22 PM

Originally posted by coachc45
. . . what law "very well may have been broken"? I don't know any law that states that you can't recommend a book to be read. it may be distasteful..... but it is hardly criminal!!!! And Please don't use the term Pornography, there is nothing pornographic in saying that someone had sex with a corpse, it is only pornographic if graphic details were provided..... and in this they were not.
From what I understand, pornography may not have a legal definition. I think it is too subjective.

I have not read the book, but generally books are very descriptive. More descriptive than movies or photos for that matter, in my opinion. If you have read the book, then you are to be commended for your effort.

Here is what I think shakes out of this.

I think teachers will read the books they put on the lists for recommended reading. A novel notion or idea don't you think?

coachc45

10-25-2007, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by BobcatBenny
From what I understand, pornography may not have a legal definition. I think it is too subjective.

I have not read the book, but generally books are very descriptive. More descriptive than movies or photos for that matter, in my opinion. If you have read the book, then you are to be commended for your effort.

Here is what I think shakes out of this.

I think teachers will read the books they put on the lists for recommended reading. A novel notion or idea don't you think?

I think that is a wonderful idea. Just like in your profession you go and experience everything before recommending it to be used. Some of us trust respected organizations to not lead us down a poor path. And if you haven't read the book, how on earth can you have an opinion whether these people are right or not? You read the article and took the fact that it mentions the book is about a killer who has sex with the corpses. You took that and jumped to a conclusion that it is graphic. The book is about a young man who is wrongly accused and the persecution is so bad that he slips into insanity and becomes all that they say he is and worse..........These people jumped to conclusions based on the accusations of others without the "facts" to back it up.....wow, kinda sounds familiar don't ya think!

BobcatBenny

10-25-2007, 11:55 PM

Originally posted by coachc45
I think that is a wonderful idea. Just like in your profession you go and experience everything before recommending it to be used. Some of us trust respected organizations to not lead us down a poor path. And if you haven't read the book, how on earth can you have an opinion whether these people are right or not? You read the article and took the fact that it mentions the book is about a killer who has sex with the corpses. You took that and jumped to a conclusion that it is graphic. The book is about a young man who is wrongly accused and the persecution is so bad that he slips into insanity and becomes all that they say he is and worse..........These people jumped to conclusions based on the accusations of others without the "facts" to back it up.....wow, kinda sounds familiar don't ya think!
I have not jumped to any such fact. I just stated that a law may have been violated. I can believe that potentially harmful material may be contained in this book because of its subject matter. This subject matter of the book was conceeded in the article.

But you are correct, I do not have complete knowledge of the situation. I did however find and read a summary of the content of this book. . . . And if the teachers had read at least what I did, then I would bet that this Cormac McCarthy book would have been eliminated.

However, resources that I have thought reliable have failed me before too. And it does and did have repercussions. There are risks and we learn to mitigate them. If I do not perform the requisite due diligence, then it can cost me my job as well.

But on another note.

Here is how things get out of hand.

Define "harmful material"
Our View
Daily Vidette Editorial Board
http://media.www.dailyvidette.com/media/storage/paper420/news/2007/10/24/Viewpoint/Define.harmful.Material-3051929.shtml

The cliché tale of a teacher losing his job over a banned book has appeared yet again in Tuscola, TX.

Third year English teacher, Kaleb Tierce, has been put on paid leave when a student's parents reported to police that Tierce's 9th grade reading list contained the Pulitzer Prize winning novel by Cormac McCarthy, "Child of God," according to the Associated Press.

Tierce is currently being investigated for "distributing harmful material to a minor." Said minor had chosen the novel from Tierce's reading list. The book is considered "harmful material" because it tells the story of a town outsider who is falsely accused of rape and, subsequently, begins to kill people. Additionally, there are details in the novel in which the main character has sex with his victims' bodies.

While the subject-matter of McCarthy's novel seems somewhat violent and grotesque, who can say that it is harmful? Although the members of today's opinions council have not read this particular piece by McCarthy, we all had to wonder what could a Pulitzer Prize winning book possibly contain that might get a teacher charged with a misdemeanor and pay possible fines of up to $4,000, or spend up to one year in prison? Yes, this book is probably very violent. However, with films like Saw IV being released and video games like Grand Theft Auto becoming household names, how can a parent start pointing fingers at a novel that is meant to provoke thought?

It is understandable that parents would like nothing more than to protect their children, but they must also think of what they are depriving them of when prohibiting the reading of novels that might be violent or sexually explicit. Additionally, if McCarthy's novel is overwhelmingly violent or grotesque, perhaps there is a reason for it. Usually novels that merit Pulitzer Prizes have some kind of substance beyond the type of senseless violence that adolescents are ironically exposed to when they play games like Grand Theft Auto. Pulitzers aren't given out like free cheeseburgers for the McDonald's monopoly game.

If the student chooses the novel from Tierce's reading list, he or she should be commended for wanting to read something so renowned. Parents who hope Tierce is charged with distributing harmful material should ponder the question: Have any of you actually read "Child of God"? How can a parent make complaints and allegations if they have not read the "harmful material" themselves? How do they actually know it is harmful if they do not read it? If they did in fact read the McCarthy novel and still found it unsuitable for their 9th grade student, what do they propose to do to fully ensure their child will not read it? Are they going to march to every library and bookstore within 50 miles and demand the book be taken off the shelves? Either way, just like most of the students at Jim Ned High School, we hope Kaleb Tierce is allowed back to teach.

Now we have another media source twisting this book into a Pulitzer Prize winner. I know for a fact that it is not. See my previous link to Pulitzer Prize winners.

. . . And apparently Mr. Teirce has now lost his job. :rolleyes:

coachc45

10-26-2007, 12:26 AM

Mr. Tierce hasn't lost his job... he's been suspended.... hence them saying hopefully he will be allowed back to teach.

Yes they did falsely say that the book had won the pulitzer prize.... when it was actually the novelist that won it for another book.
The parents should have gone to the school board or the Superintendent before they went to the police. They blew this completely out of proportion and totally sensationalized it. I truly hope that they enjoy their 15 minutes and can learn to sleep at night knowing that they may have ruined a man's career over a Freaking book....... And I sincerely hope that they don't ever have a lapse in judgement and if they do hopefully the people involved will be more tolerant than they are. The old saying "people who live in glass houses....." somehow seems appropriate.

BobcatBenny

10-26-2007, 01:20 AM

Originally posted by coachc45
. . . The parents should have gone to the school board or the Superintendent before they went to the police. They blew this completely out of proportion and totally sensationalized it. I truly hope that they enjoy their 15 minutes and can learn to sleep at night knowing that they may have ruined a man's career over a Freaking book....... And I sincerely hope that they don't ever have a lapse in judgement and if they do hopefully the people involved will be more tolerant than they are. The old saying "people who live in glass houses....." somehow seems appropriate.
According to the original article, the parents did go to the teacher and principal before contacting the police.

This is quite probably just sensationalism run amuk.

However, for Mr. Tierce, the student and the parents, I am sure this is a very serious situation.

When I first joined this board, someone from my town said it was not a big deal that high school students drink because they all do. He even indicated that it was no big deal to supply them with the booze. I explained to him that if I gained knowledge of him illegally providing any minor booze, I would turn him into authorities. I meant it.

That crossed my tollerance threshold.