"Official" question

[LH Panther Mom]

What would determine "defensive delay of game"?


Defense was coming off the field and offense was gathering on the field for the huddle.....

[LH Panther Mom]

bump

[necks_c/09]

i know one way is if the defense tries to prevent the offense from snapping the ball...(there are lots of ways to do this) in an attempt to make more time run off the clock..... then a defensive dealy of game penalty is supposed to be called

[zebrablue2]

rule 9.2-article 3- If a team rufuses to play within 2 minutes after ordered to do so by the referee: the referee may take any action he considers equitable including assessing a penalty, awarding a score, or suspending or forfeiting the game.

the ball shall be declared ready for play consistently throughout the game by the referee when game officials are in position. the only other way the defense can delay is by defensive verbal tactics that disconcert offensive signals-- and defensive actions designed to cause a false start.

I have never had a team refuse to play, one way or the other. have had the defense use verbal or stomping motion to get the offense to jump. hope this answers your question.

[LH Panther Mom]

Hmmmm.....thanks zebrablue2. Defensive delay of game was called on the team while their offense was coming onto the field due to change of possession - same team. I believe there was some "discussion" on the field as to what the penalty was going to be before it was called.


I guess I need to go watch for myself what might've caused it & give more info.

[Buccaneer]

I have seen defensive delay called when the defense delays the runner from getting up from a tackle and when they "delay" giving the ball back to the official.

[VAMike]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Hmmmm.....thanks zebrablue2. Defensive delay of game was called on the team while their offense was coming onto the field due to change of possession - same team. I believe there was some "discussion" on the field as to what the penalty was going to be before it was called.


I guess I need to go watch for myself what might've caused it & give more info.

Very strange the way you have described it. There can be a penalty on the defense if they are subbing in response to subbing by the other team's offense but do not do so "promptly".

Other possible 5 yd penalty delay of game fouls by the defense:
If a team is not ready to play after the break between periods 1 & 2 or between 3 & 4, or not ready to play after a score or after a timeout, or if the defense uses disconcerting signals during the offense's signal calling, or if the defense commits acts designed to get the offense to false start.

I have seen refs (incorrectly) penalize a team for delay after a good defensive play when the defender's do something with the ball, i,e, throw it away, spike it, etc. That is supposed to be a 15 yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty.

[Necked]

I've got one about PAT's. If a defense blocks a PAT they can obviously return it for 2 pnts. But can they return it for two if the ball has been kicked, i.e. it bounces off the upright back into the field of play? And could the offense recover it for points if the defense touches it, as if it were a blocked field goal attempt like Leon Lett did years back?

[raider red 2000]

Originally posted by Necked
I've got one about PAT's. If a defense blocks a PAT they can obviously return it for 2 pnts. But can they return it for two if the ball has been kicked, i.e. it bounces off the upright back into the field of play? And could the offense recover it for points if the defense touches it, as if it were a blocked field goal attempt like Leon Lett did years back?

i think that the upright is out of bounds....so i would say it cant be returned...but i could be wrong.

[Necked]

Originally posted by raider red 2000
i think that the upright is out of bounds....so i would say it cant be returned...but i could be wrong.

If it were out of bounds, does that mean the ball is out of play once it breaks the plane of the crossbar? Could a defensive player theoreticaly catch a 3 pnt field goal that bounces over the crossbar while staying inbounds & return it as if it were a fieldgoal that falls short?

[VAMike]

If the ball hits any part of the goalposts it is out of bounds and is dead. There is an exception whne it hits the posts and then goes through which results in a score.

Once the ball goes over the crossbar, the kick scores.

[raider red 2000]

Originally posted by VAMike
If the ball hits any part of the goalposts it is out of bounds and is dead. There is an exception whne it hits the posts and then goes through which results in a score.

Once the ball goes over the crossbar, the kick scores.


would this be legal....unlikely but legal????

say team A has a 7'0 kid with a 40" vertical.

Team B is kicking a field goal that is probably going to barely clear the cross bar.

can team A's kid wait in the endzone and basically goal tend...like in basketball. in order to keep the ball in play and return it like a punt????

________________________________________

i know if i had a kid like that it might be better to line him up closer to the LOS if trying to block.....but just asking.

[VAMike]

That would be considered an illegal batting in the end zone and could result in a safety or a 15 yard penalty from the previous spot and replay of dpwn for the kicking team.

[JasperDog94]

It's also a "defensive delay of game" if the defensive player moves the ball before it's snapped.

[VAMike]

I know it is a technicality, but that act by the defense is actually not delay of game but rather is offside. Penalty is the same, 5 yards.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by VAMike
I know it is a technicality, but that act by the defense is actually not delay of game but rather is offside. Penalty is the same, 5 yards. I think I've seen it call delay of game before though. Maybe in this case a defender accidentally moved the ball on his way off the field after the ball was whistled for play?

[VAMike]

I think we have determined now there was something else, i.e. a possible fair catch signal and then the ball advanced, leading up to this which might have been what the penalty was really for.

[c-town_balla]

Everygame we have to tell the officials that the other team is calling out our signals ....like saying go....but they never do anything about it

[VAMike]

The defense is permitted to call signals. They just cannot call ones which are designed to imitate the offense's signals. Most officials will also look at what the defense does in response to signals. I.e. if the signal is "Go" and nobody moves, that is indicative of a team trying to screw with the snap count.

[Gobbla2001]

isn't it also a delay of game when the defense does not hurry to the LOS when the offense is running their two minute offense?

[VAMike]

No not really. First of all, the offense has no automatic right to be able to put the ball in play faster than normal just because they are in "2 minute offense". That being said, if the Ref believes the defense is deliberately trying to delay, what he should do is stop the clock, warn the defense, let them get onsides, and then do the ready for play and wind the clock. If they repeat this act, then he should consider an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty, not a delay of game.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by c-town_balla
Everygame we have to tell the officials that the other team is calling out our signals ....like saying go....but they never do anything about it
We had the same thing occur 3 weeks ago and were told by the officials that they were not listening to the signals but watching the line for movement.


Originally posted by VAMike
I think we have determined now there was something else, i.e. a possible fair catch signal and then the ball advanced, leading up to this which might have been what the penalty was really for.
I'll see if my husband can youtube it. He and I discussed this morning and he is fairly positive that is the play in question.

[VAMike]

We zebras would be forever indebeted for the youtube if possible. We use it an incredible amount for training these days.

As for the signals, that is a WEAK excuse. You do not hear with your eyes or see with your ears. I will say it is sometimes hard for the officials on the line to hear the signals but the Umpire and referee usually can.

[zebrablue2]

Originally posted by VAMike
No not really. First of all, the offense has no automatic right to be able to put the ball in play faster than normal just because they are in "2 minute offense". That being said, if the Ref believes the defense is deliberately trying to delay, what he should do is stop the clock, warn the defense, let them get onsides, and then do the ready for play and wind the clock. If they repeat this act, then he should consider an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty, not a delay of game.


very good point.

[Leopards,class of 75]

I have also heard them call delay of game when the defense has too many players on the field.

[zebrablue2]

Originally posted by Leopards,class of 75
I have also heard them call delay of game when the defense has too many players on the field.

illegal participation is the call on this one.

[VAMike]

If they play with 12 then it is illegal participation and a 15 yarder. If the 12th is just slow getting off and the get it before the snap it is a 5 yard illegal substitution. (Or if the 12th runs off after the ball is snapped then it is also a 5 yard illegal substitution)

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by VAMike
The defense is permitted to call signals. They just cannot call ones which are designed to imitate the offense's signals. Most officials will also look at what the defense does in response to signals. I.e. if the signal is "Go" and nobody moves, that is indicative of a team trying to screw with the snap count.
*sigh* My son said that wasn't it. I'm hoping to get to look tonight, but hubby has the computer tied up that has the stuff.

[3afan]

Originally posted by VAMike
If they play with 12 then it is illegal participation and a 15 yarder. If the 12th is just slow getting off and the get it before the snap it is a 5 yard illegal substitution. (Or if the 12th runs off after the ball is snapped then it is also a 5 yard illegal substitution)

is it the back judge's job to count the defensive players?

[VAMike]

Yes and he is supposed to be aided by the sideline official on the side of the team that is on defense. Some crews elect to give the job to the sideline official on the home sideline all the time (in addition to the back judge).

[whtfbplaya]

IP is one call I hate. It really ticks me off when I am the R, The only way I see to have this is if a guy runs off the sideline right at the snap, all the others should be substitution.

[VAMike]

If he runs off right at the snap you better not have IP. That is still illegal substitution. IP is reserved for when they have 12 actually participating in the play.

[whtfbplaya]

Originally posted by VAMike
If he runs off right at the snap you better not have IP. That is still illegal substitution. IP is reserved for when they have 12 actually participating in the play.

I mean if he runs off the sideline (on to the field).;)

[Necked]

Another one, thought of while watching the replay of the Oilers blowing the Buffalo game.
On an onsides kick, is it legal for the kicking team to level a receiving team player who is attempting to field a grounded onsides kick, as long as the ball is past the 10 yd point? I mean where the kicking team player pays no attention to the ball & is obviously targeting the opposition player?

[VAMike]

Can't speak for the NFL game but in our game, kicking team cannot block until they are eligible to recover the ball (meaning it has either gone 10 yards or has been tocuhed by receivers). This prevents them from going down, blocking receivers out of the way and then getting the ball once it has gone 10 yards.