Undisciplined Football Team

[Matthew328]

This is a term I see thrown about pretty loosely, so what makes an undisciplined football team?

[District303aPastPlayer]

well, to most people, kids who show emotion when they lose, and they aren't cool with the way they act makes them undisciplined...

An undisciplined team to me is one that gets penalties needlessly, doesn't listen to their coach, and usually winds up getting an Unsportsmanlike Penalty

[KTA]

a team that commits alot of penalties that could of been avoided be it on offense or defense, that or constantly dont have enough men (or too many) on the field at once. Just a team that makes stupid mental mistakes that could be avoided

[burnet44]

1. wont listen
2. line up wrong
3. plays poor technique
4. talks smack instead of playing
5. more worried about individual goals than winning
6. very emotional ALL THE TIME
7. don't read keys
8. quits if they get down
9. very easily fooled
10. has a very very very simple playbook
11. beat by teams who have no business beating them
12. relies on talent only
13. players dont get any better, no development
14. make a ton of mistakes, usually the same ones
15. penalties, penalities, penalities
16. make no defensive adjustments
17. make no offensive adjustments
18. mommas and daddies in the stands hollaring at the coach
19. small aquads for the size school they are
20. mistakes, mistakes, mistakes

not all of these at once
but Number 1 rule
dont line up beat
if you cant line up right
you aint listening


fire away

[Matthew328]

I agree, the reason why I ask is because I saw where a person who wasnt at a game comment that a team who had 12 penalties for 125 yards was undisciplined.....yet I was at the same game and the team that committed the 12 penalties did not seem undisciplined..

of the 12 penalties
3 were holding penalties which I know on one of them the OT was keeping the QB from getting killed

2 pass interference penalties (kid just got beat twice, once he slipped and just grabbed the WR ankles to avoid a TD)

1 roughing the kicker penalty on an attempted blocked punt

1 kickoff that bounced out of bounds

these are all examples of "good" penalties, were either you are just trying to make a play and got too aggressive, or were about to get beat for a big play....

A team that commits a lot of offsides, illegal motion, substitution infractions, personal fouls for unsportsmanlike conduct or late hits are examples of being undisciplined...

My point being is sometimes just because a team gets a lot of penalties in a game doesn't exactly imply a lack of discipline all the time

[PlayaJBiehl20]

Originally posted by burnet44
1. wont listen
2. line up wrong
3. plays poor technique
4. talks smack instead of playing
5. more worried about individual goals than winning
6. very emotional ALL THE TIME
7. don't read keys
8. quits if they get down
9. very easily fooled
10. has a very very very simple playbook
11. beat by teams who have no business beating them
12. relies on talent only
13. players dont get any better, no development
14. make a ton of mistakes, usually the same ones
15. penalties, penalities, penalities
16. make no defensive adjustments
17. make no offensive adjustments
18. mommas and daddies in the stands hollaring at the coach
19. small aquads for the size school they are
20. mistakes, mistakes, mistakes

not all of these at once
but Number 1 rule
dont line up beat
if you cant line up right
you aint listening


fire away

Well Put!!!

[burnet44]

Originally posted by PlayaJBiehl20
Well Put!!!

thanks

[Matthew328]

I'd say numbers 1,2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 14 are all excellent examples of being undisciplined

3, 10, 11, 12, 13, 16, 17 seem to be examples of a lack of coaching....kids can't make too many adjustments on the fly at the HS level

8 just screams no heart but not lack of discipline...I've seen some disciplined teams quit when they get down

18 well that's every school!

19 just means there is very little participation and nothing more

20 well thats a given...LOL




Originally posted by burnet44
1. wont listen
2. line up wrong
3. plays poor technique
4. talks smack instead of playing
5. more worried about individual goals than winning
6. very emotional ALL THE TIME
7. don't read keys
8. quits if they get down
9. very easily fooled
10. has a very very very simple playbook
11. beat by teams who have no business beating them
12. relies on talent only
13. players dont get any better, no development
14. make a ton of mistakes, usually the same ones
15. penalties, penalities, penalities
16. make no defensive adjustments
17. make no offensive adjustments
18. mommas and daddies in the stands hollaring at the coach
19. small aquads for the size school they are
20. mistakes, mistakes, mistakes

not all of these at once
but Number 1 rule
dont line up beat
if you cant line up right
you aint listening


fire away

[3afan]

most folks who say a team is undisciplined is just saying that cause the team has that reputation or they are stereotyping

i think most would agree its not the number of penalties - its what kind of penalties and how a team ACTS on the field

[burnet44]

Originally posted by Matthew328
of the 12 penalties
3 were holding penalties which I know on one of them the OT was keeping the QB from getting killed

2 pass interference penalties (kid just got beat twice, once he slipped and just grabbed the WR ankles to avoid a TD)

1 roughing the kicker penalty on an attempted blocked punt

1 kickoff that bounced out of bounds


ok I agree
but
1. if you have poor tech you have to hold
2. IMHO no one should get beat, read your keys, know what they do, how they do it, and line your a up deep enough so you dont, again poor tech, hip turn, feet ect gets you beat
3. if taught properly you go at a spot IN FRONT of the kicker
but I know kids dont always do this, but was it at a critical time? you should be disciplined enough not to make this mistake when the game is still undecided
4. OK sure Ill say this the kid from Canidian does a great job of angle kicking to the 5 outstanding, and did it several times
very good tech

Im not saying Matt is wrong
(wait can I say he is and NOT get banned lol JK JK JK JK JK ok)
he is right that some penalities can be aggressive ones
kids are playing hard and it happens
But if you play good tech you are less likely to get a penalty

[Matthew328]

I think its VERY tough for any fan in the stands to really tell if a team is disciplined or not....no one in the bleachers really knows how a team is...the two times I saw Cedar Hill play I thought for the most part they were very sound at what they did and they didn't make mistakes...but many ignorant people thought they were undisciplined and why? Well because they are an urban school with mostly minority players, same thing that was said about the school I mentioned in question earlier...the ignorance of some people always amuses me to no end...making blanket statements will almost always wind up making you look like a fool because there are exceptions to every rule

[sotxrat]

IMO - an example of an undisciplined football team would be the TAMU@kingsville Javelinas before the current regime, look at the stats it is unbelievable

[3afan]

Originally posted by Matthew328
......but many ignorant people thought they were undisciplined and why? Well because they are an urban school with mostly minority players, ...

yeah that was my point ...

[burnet44]

Originally posted by sotxrat
IMO - an example of an undisciplined football team would be the TAMU@kingsville Javelinas before the current regime, look at the stats it is unbelievable

must have been AFTER GIL lol
maybe thats why Cundiff left?
lol
no the NCAA was on his/their a too

[Matthew328]

I think the aggressive penalties as a coach most can live with I know as a fan I can live with penalties when a kid is just trying to make a play...the roughing the kicker penalty wasn't really at a crticial point...early 2nd quarter...I would assume most coaches at critical points if leading would just put the return on...

Many times poor technique does get you beat but sometimes the kid lined up across from you is just that much better and there's nothing you can do about it no matter the technique..I think that was the cause of the hold...the DE was a STUD and had the OT overmatched big time...coach adjusted at the half and kept a TE in to double team or chipped a back...

The PI, I know the first one the CB just flat bit on the out and up...second one was a flat slip, one of those things it looked like...



Originally posted by burnet44
ok I agree
but
1. if you have poor tech you have to hold
2. IMHO no one should get beat, read your keys, know what they do, how they do it, and line your a up deep enough so you dont, again poor tech, hip turn, feet ect gets you beat
3. if taught properly you go at a spot IN FRONT of the kicker
but I know kids dont always do this, but was it at a critical time? you should be disciplined enough not to make this mistake when the game is still undecided
4. KO sure Ill say this the kid from canidian does a great job of angle kicking to the 5 outstanding, and did it several times
very good tech

Im not saying matt is wrong
he is right that some penalities can be aggressive ones
kids are playing hard and it happens
But if you play good tech you are less likely to get a penalty

[zebrablue2]

Originally posted by Matthew328
I'd say numbers 1,2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 14 are all excellent examples of being undisciplined

3, 10, 11, 12, 13, 16, 17 seem to be examples of a lack of coaching....kids can't make too many adjustments on the fly at the HS level

8 just screams no heart but not lack of discipline...I've seen some disciplined teams quit when they get down

18 well that's every school!

19 just means there is very little participation and nothing more

20 well thats a given...LOL

you did all my thinking for me Matthew. all I had to do is read yours, on # 8, the coach needs to keep the fire under their butts, and not let them quit. WELL PUT.

[rundoe]

What about behavior off the field, does that count?

[LH Panther Mom]

I am obviously not qualified to be able to answer this question.

[3afan]

Originally posted by rundoe
What about behavior off the field, does that count?

there are no right/wrong rules ...... if you think off the field should count, then it counts

[block&tackle]

One big one left out:

- doesn't prepare in the off-season - poor work habits off the field

Not meaning to perpetuate any stereotypes but many of the teams that I hear folks say are so "athletic" are teams that rely on that athleticism so heavily that they don't stick to assignments and can be had by a team that knows how to execute and play team ball. That Miami NW team is a good example. No way that SLC should have been in that game as a function of athleticism - but a kid doesn't have to be as fast or big if his coaches have him in the right place at the right time and he executes.

[sotxrat]

Quote:

must have been AFTER GIL lol
maybe thats why Cundiff left?
lol
no the NCAA was on his/their a too

I was there under Gil's watch, you made a stupid foul, unsportmanslike or personal foul, you sit for a while and maybe a game or two, depending on the foul. Now after Gil they won the big games with better talent but lost most big games because of lack of discipline.

Cundiff who???

[Matthew328]

There are many other dynamics involved in off-season things...for example at Everman many of the kids simply ae not able to show up as much as the coaches would like because once the season is over they have to get jobs (this is why they do not play spring ball also) this is why many inner city schools struggle at football when it comes to preperation etc most of them are behind the eight ball..I'd imagine the majority of those Miami kids aren't able to afford to attend the daily speed camp the kids from SLC attend in the summer....Velocity Sports isn't cheap!

As for off the field behavior, thats a tough one...I guess more specific behavior would need to be explained..


Originally posted by block&tackle
One big one left out:

- doesn't prepare in the off-season - poor work habits off the field

Not meaning to perpetuate any stereotypes but many of the teams that I hear folks say are so "athletic" are teams that rely on that athleticism so heavily that they don't stick to assignments and can be had by a team that knows how to execute and play team ball. That Miami NW team is a good example. No way that SLC should have been in that game as a function of athleticism - but a kid doesn't have to be as fast or big if his coaches have him in the right place at the right time and he executes.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
I am obviously not qualified to be able to answer this question. LMAO!!!

[Matthew328]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
I am obviously not qualified to be able to answer this question.

Why not?? LOL

[sotxrat]

This is a term I see thrown about pretty loosely, so what makes an undisciplined football team?

To answer this original question: Discipline begins at home. Coaches can only do so much.

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
I am obviously not qualified to be able to answer this question. :eek: :eek: Says who??? :thinking:

I enjoyed reading this thread. I have nothing to add to what has already been discussed, but thanks for the good read guys! :thumbsup:

[crabman]

The word DISCIPLINE is from the root word disciple. That is one who follows and emulates a leader. Think about the term and you will rethink the concept of discipline.

Kids without discipline are those who follow and emulate the teachings of their coach, pure and simple. If the coach does not have the leadership skills to make his kids do the right thing they will be perceived as undisciplined. If the coach is simply enabling poor behavior by tolerating mediocrity, again the kids will be perceived as undisciplined.

It flows from the top on this one.

[sotxrat]

Kids without discipline are those who follow and emulate the teachings of their coach, pure and simple. If the coach does not have the leadership skills to make his kids do the right thing they will be perceived as undisciplined. If the coach is simply enabling poor behavior by tolerating mediocrity, again the kids will be perceived as undisciplined.

Crabman, I agree to a degree with you on this however, most kids, as you put it, in high school have been led by someone prior to the high school coach, so their leader up to that time has to set good examples as well and hopefully the high school coach will help with the teaching of this young person. But there is, as in life, coaches/leaders that do not do a good job with their students. That is life as I can tell you know.

[Johnny 5]

Remember . . . alot of penalties are ref misjudgements.

i.e. A roughing the kicke on a punt when the punter falls down if someone gets remotely close to him.

Some late hit calls are bull as well. The players are taught to hustle until the whistle blows. The refs blow the whistle late, and penalize the kids for hustling as they were taught.

[burnet44]

Im sure they/I meant penalties that are aviodable
I went to a game friday
that was a perfect example
12 false starts on the offense
yes the kids were young about 1/2 were sophs
but jezzzzzz 12 false starts
those are penalites you can help

it also determines if the coach goes home and has a DP/Coors Light or just drinks straight Jack lol

those kind of penalties deive ya to an early grave, 0-10, fired, you get the picture bad things

Poor guys had a chance to be in the game but turning 3rd and 2 into 3rd and 7's killed em or first and 15's

[block&tackle]

Originally posted by Matthew328
There are many other dynamics involved in off-season things...for example at Everman many of the kids simply ae not able to show up as much as the coaches would like because once the season is over they have to get jobs (this is why they do not play spring ball also) this is why many inner city schools struggle at football when it comes to preperation etc most of them are behind the eight ball..I'd imagine the majority of those Miami kids aren't able to afford to attend the daily speed camp the kids from SLC attend in the summer....Velocity Sports isn't cheap!

As for off the field behavior, thats a tough one...I guess more specific behavior would need to be explained..
I will go along with you on the first part - I hadn't thought about that. In Celina discipline means not missing workouts, working hard in practice, listening to coaches and executing your assignment. At Dallas Madison (where I appaud what has been accomplished) discipline might mean staying out of trouble and showing up to practice.

As to SLC, I realize that was tongue-in-cheek but VS has nothing to do with their success. The thing that their money does is exactly what you were talking about - give them the opportunity to not have to worry about as much outside of football so that they can devote more to preparation.

[Matthew328]

I don't think going to Velocity every day during the summer is the sole reason for their success that would be asenine to think..but its got to help...if it can help a kid drop .1 off the forty time and be more explosive its a help...just think if a lot of those inner city kids had the resources to devote to all that extra one on one work...no doubt having more money means more focus on football and less on other things like what am I eating for dinner or IF I am eating dinner

[burnet44]

Originally posted by Matthew328
I don't think going to Velocity every day during the summer is the sole reason for their success that would be asenine to think..but its got to help...if it can help a kid drop .1 off the forty time and be more explosive its a help...just think if a lot of those inner city kids had the resources to devote to all that extra one on one work...no doubt having more money means more focus on football and less on other things like what am I eating for dinner or IF I am eating dinner

very true
and remember
that kid may run a 4.4 anyway
while Jr. runs 5 downhill and with the wind

[rundoe]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
I am obviously not qualified to be able to answer this question.

Gee thanks. In my opinion it could include rverything from not working out over the summer to setting bad examples for younger players , getting in trouble, etc.

What made me think of it was the other threads about college players . There are at least three threads running right now about players in trouble off the field. I would call those teams un-desiplined too. For no other reason that it upsets any momentum they may have had going for them before losing a player due to off the field activities.

[rundoe]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
I am obviously not qualified to be able to answer this question.

and why would that be? You know as muchor more about football as anyone on this site. It's a legit question.

[Stownhorse]

IMO there are 2 types...

1. The undiciplined type that doesnt act like a team and each one of them think they are Mike Vick(the old one) or Devin Hester and cant be stopped. They also always want the ball....And when they are getting beat everyone starts yelling at eachother and blaming people.

2. The other, everyone else has already explained with excessive penalties.

[RedWhiteBlue]

I went with my daughter this last Saturday to watch some of her 6th grade boy friends play pee wee football. I was amazed at their attitudes- throwing helmets, water bottles, kicking stuff, etc. This is a young man that I know and I know his parents and they are good people. I am amazed that they allow him to carry on like that. It just so happened that I was standing and talking to one of the junior high coaches and he said, "I can't wait to get ahold of that kid next year."

[burnet44]

It does START at home
but if it doesnt that dont mean you cant have it
here is what I always ask my girls on how they played
"did you help your team?"
as long as they do that
Im cool
we are team at my house
and we are disciplined because of that
no matter how many they score
its always
"did you help your team win"
even in track which has a lot of individual events
"did you score to help the team win or keep someone else from scoring to help our team"

and remember this

"a school is a reflection of the community"
if the kids are undiciplined chances are the community is also

thats not written in stone before some of you get
your panties in a wad
(some of you need them wadded up btw)
but its a good barometer on discipline

[rundoe]

Originally posted by burnet44
It does START at home
but if it doesnt that dont mean you cant have it
here is what I always ask my girls on how they played
"did you help your team?"
as long as they do that
Im cool
we are team at my house
and we are disciplined because of that
no matter how many they score
its always
"did you help your team win"
even in track which has a lot of individual events
"did you score to help the team win or keep someone else from scoring to help our team"

and remember this

"a school is a reflection of the community"
if the kids are undiciplined chances are the community is also

thats not written in stone before some of you get
your panties in a wad
(some of you need them wadded up btw)
but its a good barometer on discipline

Great post!!

[burnet44]

thank you

[luvhoops34]

Originally posted by burnet44
It does START at home
but if it doesnt that dont mean you cant have it
here is what I always ask my girls on how they played
"did you help your team?"
as long as they do that
Im cool
we are team at my house
and we are disciplined because of that
no matter how many they score
its always
"did you help your team win"
even in track which has a lot of individual events
"did you score to help the team win or keep someone else from scoring to help our team"

and remember this

"a school is a reflection of the community"
if the kids are undiciplined chances are the community is also

thats not written in stone before some of you get
your panties in a wad
(some of you need them wadded up btw)
but its a good barometer on discipline

+2 :D

[CHS Pride]

I attended a 2A football game this past Friday that was the most pitiful performance that I have ever witnessed. There were players on the field taking off helmets, smack talking, jive dancing, being ejected, getting in the faces of coaches and being ejected and the fans weren't much better. When we left the stadium we litterally had to look down every step we made so as not to step in someones nacho boat or unfinished food because no one used the trash cans.

[burnet44]

pretty good example
a school is the reflection of the community

[burnet44]

Originally posted by luvhoops34
+2 :D
+3
lol

[3afan]

Originally posted by CHS Pride
I attended a 2A football game this past Friday that was the most pitiful performance that I have ever witnessed. There were players on the field taking off helmets, smack talking, jive dancing, being ejected, getting in the faces of coaches and being ejected and the fans weren't much better. When we left the stadium we litterally had to look down every step we made so as not to step in someones nacho boat or unfinished food because no one used the trash cans.

so what game did you attend?

[CHS Pride]

Somerville vs. Hearne in Hearne.