Ford vs. GM

[big daddy russ]

My fiance and I are considering buying a new pickup next August after we get married. Definitely want a half ton for the ride and comfort, especially considering how far they've come with towing capability.

We're going to be using it almost exclusively in town. Not much, if any, work. The only big job we'd need it for would be to tow a travel trailer a couple of times a year.

Basically, this is what I came up with. Most of you know that have been on here a while know that I like to chart everything out and see it side by side in front of me, so here's what I've had on paper.

We'll probably have this thing every bit of 200k miles, so longevity and cost of ownership in the long-term are extremely important. My family's had three GM pickups/SUV's with more than 200k that were virtually hassle-free. Any other input on that, especially from the Ford guys? Am I missing anything else important?


.................................Ford 5.4 V8....Chevy 6.0 V8........Chevy Ext.
.................................Crew Cab.......Crew Cab 5.5'......Cab 6.5'
...................................6.5' bed........bed/1500HD........bed/1500

Smoother Ride........................................!!!... ..........................

Stability..........................!!!............ ..........................................

Interior room + bed........!!!.................................... ..................

Power (HP/Ft-lb)..........300/365.........300/360*...........315/338

Max Towing..................9,300 lbs........10,500...............8,900

GVWR...........................7,050 lbs.........8,600................6,800

Payload........................1,660 lbs.........3,129................1,657

Gas Tank......................35.7 gals..........26 gals.............26 gals

MSRP............................$33,055........... $33,323............$30,300




*After riding in all three, the Chevy has more get-up and had more pull through the whole powerband than Ford. And both trucks had a 3.73 limited-slip rear end, so the gears wouldn't have been a factor.

Also, the MSRP is relative. Chevy cut their margins about a year ago, so the discounts aren't as good as Ford's. In August, I'd be able to get $11k-$12k off that Ford Super Crew while I could probably expect to get $10k off the Chevys. So this is what I'd spend on the truck itself walking out the door...

Ford: $21k-$22k
Chevy Crew: roughly $23K
Chevy X: roughly $20k

All trucks were almost identically-equipped. All had 3.73 non-slip rear ends, the towing package, the "basic nice" truck line (A/T, cruise, tilt, power windows/locks/etc, cloth seats). The only major differences was that the Ford had the bigger gas tank (it was a $75 option) and the Chevy X-Cab didn't have the trailer tow mirrors.

The three biggest sticking points with the Ford were that you could get a full-size bed in their crew cab (if it was up to me alone, I'd get a long bed x-cab), the gas tank is MUCH larger than the Chevy's, and that I could (possibly) get it for $2,000 cheaper. But the Chevy whips it in every other category.

Any other input? Sinton66, I know you're a Ford guy. Barrett, any experience with the Ford half tons?

[IHStangFan]

Okay....you know me Russ...I was a born and bred Chevy man. (thought you were a Dodge man..finally wised up?? LOL) With that being said, I've owned every make of truck sold in America ....everything from an S10 to my current F-250 crew cab diesel. For a half ton, you really can't go wrong w/ the Chevy. Great ride, comfortable, plenty of power..decent mileage. The Ford is several hundred lbs heavier than the other half tons on the market due to their box frame config. which is good, but it kinda negates the HP edge they MIGHT have had on the lighter trucks. I know you're dead set against not "buying American" but what does that really mean? Many Chevys are made in Canada and several Fords are made in Mexico..on the other hand..both the Nissan Titan and the Toyota Tundra are uilt in America by Americans. The Titan is a very nice truck...probably the most solid feeling of all I've owned, razor responsive steering & throttle response, gobs of power...but the 5.6L is thirsty. The new Toyota Tundra is THE truck to have in the half ton class as of now....great styling, lots of room, great ride, reliability and resale is unmatched. Also you can get it w/ a 5.7L iForce V8 which makes 381hp and 401lb/ft of torque, also unmatched in a half ton....and it is mated to an auto 6spd tranny which ecuates to 20mpg or better AND almost 400hp. As far as wanting a half ton because they ride better than a 3/4 ton...thats about half true. My F250 rides just fine, is quiet inside despite being a diesel and gets 20+ mpg on the hwy and probably 16 or 17 in the city. Heading to AZ last time..I gassed up in Guy, TX and didn't have to stop for gas until I hit Ozona, TX. Thats about 550 miles I believe. (the truck has a 28 gal tank). Now...with this knowledge, don't let yourself be blinded by bias opinions or the whole "buy American" thing. Get the best bang for your buck. Do your research and buy the best truck, for you, for your money. If you do this..you won't be sorry. If you totally ignore the Toyotas and Nissans without even going to drive one...you could be sorry. At least give em a look. Just an educated opinion as I stated, I've owned an S10, a GMC Sierra, a Nissan Titan, a Toyota Tundra, 2 Dodge 1500s in both 2 and 4 wheel drive (I did not BUY the Dodges...one is my wifes, another was a company truck..and I can say with certainty, they are garbage)...and my current F250 Powerstroke.

Hope this helps.

[IHStangFan]

PS...to the best of my knowledge the Ford and Nissans do not have full-sized beds if you get the crew cabs. Toyota does, Dodge does, and Chevy does I believe.

[sinton66]

I'm fimly convinced (and always have been) that the only thing better than a Ford pickup is the next size up Ford pickup. If I'm spending my money, it's gonna be a Ford. I've got 120k on my little F150 and haven't done much to it except change the oil and filter. New plug wires about 75k. Still on the original brakes and shocks. Have replaced the alternator and main drive belt (about two weeks ago). I've got the V6, 5 spd standard and get about 17mpg. I've pulled my 30 foot travel trailer with it, not far but did pull it.

I would suggest if you are going to pull a TT (or a boat, etc.) a lot, might want to get the 7.1 powerstroke. Don't do 4x4, it's a waste of money. The only thing 4 wheel drive is good for is getting you stuck further from help.

Ford, Dodge, Chevy, whatever, if you're pulling things and have an automatic transmission, spend a little more an get a transmission cooler add on. They are well worth the money.

[sinton66]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
PS...to the best of my knowledge the Ford and Nissans do not have full-sized beds if you get the crew cabs. Toyota does, Dodge does, and Chevy does I believe.

Yes, Ford will sell you a full size bed with a crew cab. Dang things look like a land yacht.

Also Russ, you might want to check out the V10. I've driven only one and was surprized by it. Nice setup.

[Cameron Crazy]

I drove a v10 before and do not plan on going off road with it, sucker will sink fast.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by Cameron Crazy
I drove a v10 before and do not plan on going off road with it, sucker will sink fast. same w/ the diesels....theyre just too dang heavy....as mentioned above...a 3/4 ton or better in a 4x4 is for the most part useless....theyre just too heavy to be good offroad...also..they get worse mileage by far due to added weight and different gearing.

[slpybear the bullfan]

Had lots of company vehicles... both Fords and Chevy's... V10, Powerstroke, Duramax, 5.3, 6.0, 5.4.

My current Chevy 2004 half ton crew cab gets 21 mpg with the 5.3L and can pull my travel trailer fine.

My advice for what you are disscussing would be the Chevy CC with the 6.0 liter. The new engines for Chevy this year have Active Fuel Management. This engine will get 20 mpg and will give you the 10,500 towing capacity to pull a larger selection of trailers. (it also will come with the allison six speed auto transmission and trans cooler.)

If you have a small trailer, go for the CC with the 5.3L. The AFM on this engine gives around 25 mpg. That is incredible.

Just my $.02

[BILLYFRED0000]

What is really funny about all this is that you are really splitting hairs. All the trucks mentioned are reliable and solid. Right now I believe the Chevy is better on fuel. The Ford is a little tougher( and heavier). The Nissan and Tundra are even better when it comes to drive train but not necessarily as fuel efficient. My money says it comes down to what you like. There is very little difference and it is mostly about bragging rights. If you reall need to tow 10000 pounds that makes your choice. If you want a nice truck and don't need the power then that makes your choice.

[TexanAlum_06]

Okay well being since I work at a dealership and I try and sell F-150s everyday I will give my 2 cents. First off. August/ September of next year will be the best time to a 2008 F150. They are totally redesigning the F-150 again for 2009 and adding an optional V6 Powerstroke deisel for the 150. it will be a pretty penny but it will be nice. You will see good rebates on the 2008 trucks around this time next year because the 2009's will be coming out and any dealership will be wanting to get rid of 08's( we are trying to do that now with 07's!!!). The F150 is a great truck ( not saying that because I work for FORD ) If I was going to buy a new truck it would be a ford or a chevy. The F-150 might not have the most power or towing or w/e you ford haters wanna throw out there, but overall I feel it has the best qaulity, there has to be some reason its been the # 1 selling truck for 30+ years. you couldnt pay me to buy a dodge, engines are great but the truck doesnt last, and they HAVE THE WORST TRADE IN VALUE!!!!!!! trust me I know. the only thing a 4x4 is good for fi you dont really need it is trade in value. but if u plan on keeping your truck for 200k miles, it will be a wholesale truck by then if u trade it in and wont really matter if its a 4x4. The Tundras are nice, its a litle different styling. they did a good job advertising the horsepower and stuff because thats what americans are drawn to... POWER. and yeah it might go 0-60 in 6.2 seconds.... but what good does that do you? you gonna go to the strip? I have driven one and it is nice. but if u dig deep into the new Tundra trucks and break them down to the frame and suspension and overall qaulity, it doesnt even compare to the ford or chevy. not to mention the pretty price tag. The Iforce engine is not a standard option. its expensive. I dont really have anything for the Titan, havent driven one or seen one. A few other things. If I was you, unless your paying cash. if you have good standings with a bank or credit union. do OUTSIDE FINANCING!!! that way you can take all the rebates and discounts and then go to your own bank and still get a good interest rate. if u finance through FMC or GMC financial you will either take the rebates and get a crappy interest rate or forfeit all rebates and get like 0%. with outside financing you can get both! secondly, Salesman dont ask for downpayments to rob you of your money, smart buyers put atleast enough money down to cover your taxes. it helps in the long run. 3rd, dont get sucked into the " Oh well Kelly Blue book says my car is worth this BS" Nada KBB Edmonds. etc are just guidelines... they arent the ones buying and sellin vehicles they are jsut estimating. dont put to much credibility in them. and lasly.... Dont go into a dealership with a crappy Mr Macho attitude because 2 things will happen A) if the salesman or manager gets the chance, they will rip you a new one because you thought you were gonna treat the salesman like crap and B) when a really realyl good deal hits you right in the mouth, you will pass on it because your to prideful to eat your words or your mind is set on the fact that you cant buy because its only the first dealership you stopped at etc etc. My brother pulled that on me and thought he would shop my price and he bought at another dealership because theyshowed him a better deal on paper but in reality he got his head ripped off. I see it all the time. i guess thats enough for now......

[DaHop72]

Originally posted by sinton66
Also Russ, you might want to check out the V10. I've driven only one and was surprized by it. Nice setup. Do not get the V10, it has great power but the mileage is not good. I had one that when I pulled a trailer from Fredericksburg to Snyder bucking a north wind I got 4-5 mpg.:mad: Not good.

[Bull19]

get a toyota....it will last longer than all other brands combined

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
Okay....you know me Russ...I was a born and bred Chevy man. (thought you were a Dodge man..finally wised up?? LOL) With that being said, I've owned every make of truck sold in America ....everything from an S10 to my current F-250 crew cab diesel. For a half ton, you really can't go wrong w/ the Chevy. Great ride, comfortable, plenty of power..decent mileage. The Ford is several hundred lbs heavier than the other half tons on the market due to their box frame config. which is good, but it kinda negates the HP edge they MIGHT have had on the lighter trucks. I know you're dead set against not "buying American" but what does that really mean? Many Chevys are made in Canada and several Fords are made in Mexico..on the other hand..both the Nissan Titan and the Toyota Tundra are uilt in America by Americans. The Titan is a very nice truck...probably the most solid feeling of all I've owned, razor responsive steering & throttle response, gobs of power...but the 5.6L is thirsty. The new Toyota Tundra is THE truck to have in the half ton class as of now....great styling, lots of room, great ride, reliability and resale is unmatched. Also you can get it w/ a 5.7L iForce V8 which makes 381hp and 401lb/ft of torque, also unmatched in a half ton....and it is mated to an auto 6spd tranny which ecuates to 20mpg or better AND almost 400hp. As far as wanting a half ton because they ride better than a 3/4 ton...thats about half true. My F250 rides just fine, is quiet inside despite being a diesel and gets 20+ mpg on the hwy and probably 16 or 17 in the city. Heading to AZ last time..I gassed up in Guy, TX and didn't have to stop for gas until I hit Ozona, TX. Thats about 550 miles I believe. (the truck has a 28 gal tank). Now...with this knowledge, don't let yourself be blinded by bias opinions or the whole "buy American" thing. Get the best bang for your buck. Do your research and buy the best truck, for you, for your money. If you do this..you won't be sorry. If you totally ignore the Toyotas and Nissans without even going to drive one...you could be sorry. At least give em a look. Just an educated opinion as I stated, I've owned an S10, a GMC Sierra, a Nissan Titan, a Toyota Tundra, 2 Dodge 1500s in both 2 and 4 wheel drive (I did not BUY the Dodges...one is my wifes, another was a company truck..and I can say with certainty, they are garbage)...and my current F250 Powerstroke.

Hope this helps.
I was actually considering the Toyotas and Nissans, but a few things steered me away:

1.) That Toyota may have 381 HP and 400+ lb-ft, but it didn't feel anything like that GM 6.0L. The Toyota was quick, but the torque seemed to slip a lot once you got past mid-range RPM's. Seemed a lot more of a "quick, get-up-and-go" truck than a brute.

2.) The Titan seemed like a great truck, had as quiet a ride as anyone, and was pretty beefy compared to the Tundra's speed, but the payload/towing capacity/etc didn't compare to GM. I did like the Titan's powerband, though.

3.) Neither one rode well at all IMO. Toyota seems to have adopted their "feel the road" suspension from the Camrys. I'm not a big fan of the way Toyota or Honda cars ride even though the magazines love them, and although the Altimas ride better IMO, the Titan feels almost as stiff as the Tundra, and I'm a big fan of the Cadillac/Buick-type of ride. I'd rather feel like I'm driving a couch than feeling the road.

4.) I don't know how they hold up past 100k miles because I don't know anyone with a Tundra or Titan over 100k miles, but I know that parts aren't cheap. I looked at a replacement OEM alternator on the Tundra (I had to go to an 80-amp alternator from the '05 small V8)... $630!!! But since I was "a cool guy," he said he'd give it to me for wholesale at $522. That's about four times as much as the 140-amp alternator for the GM six liter! I know what I'm getting with the GM and if the alternator or starter goes out, I'm looking in the $175 range.

[sweetwater07]

i love my chevy.... i got a single cab 4.3L V6...wish it was a V8...but i get awesome gas mileage for a truck and its a really smooth ride. 06' too by the way..i recommend a chevy for sure

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by Bull19
get a toyota....it will last longer than all other brands combined hence their resale value compared to the others. (and I drive a Ford..so I am not bias)

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I was actually considering the Toyotas and Nissans, but a few things steered me away



1.) That Toyota may have 381 HP and 400+ lb-ft, but it didn't feel anything like that GM 6.0L. The Toyota was quick, but the torque seemed to slip a lot once you [got past mid-range RPM's. Seemed a lot
more of a "quick, get-up-and-go" truck than a brute.




Smoother power delivery is the answer there...you were feeling the jerking shifts of the Chevy..which you don't feel in the Toyota or Nissan. A truck is SUPPOSED to make its power low in the power band...for towing...why would you want peak hp/torque on the top end? You keep stressing towing capacity..so this should please you. This was one of my problems w/ the Dodge Hemi it made peak tq at like 4800 rpm. The Titan makes it at like 2800.





2.) The Titan seemed like a great truck, had as quiet a ride as anyone, and was pretty beefy compared to the Tundra's speed, but the payload/towing capacity/etc didn't compare to GM. I did like the Titan's powerband, though.





I believe the Titan is rated at 9600 or 9800lbs? That's alot more than you realize...even a HUGE travel trailer only weighs 6000-8000lbs. I seriously doubt you'll ever tow that much Russ, unless you buy a 35ft travel trailer or a huge boat. LOL.






3.) Neither one rode well at all IMO. Toyota seems to have adopted their "feel the road" suspension from the Camrys. I'm not a big fan of the way Toyota or Honda cars ride even though the magazines love them, and although the Altimas ride better IMO, the Titan feels almost as stiff as the Tundra, and I'm a big fan of the Cadillac/Buick-type of ride. I'd rather feel like I'm driving a couch than feeling the road.





personal pref. I guess...I like a compromise...I like a solid, tight feel but a nice ride as well





4.) I don't know how they hold up past 100k miles because I don't know anyone with a Tundra or Titan over 100k miles, but I know that parts aren't cheap. I looked at a replacement OEM alternator on the Tundra (I had to go to an 80-amp alternator from the '05 small V8)... $630!!! But since I was "a cool guy," he said he'd give it to me for wholesale at $522. That's about four times as much as the 140-amp alternator for the GM six liter! I know what I'm getting with the GM and if the alternator or starter goes out, I'm looking in the $175 range.





of course you don't...they JUST came out...although..my 2004 Tundra had 100K on it when my sister and bro in law got it..and it STILL runs like a top and it never once went to the shop...flawless



sounds like your mind was made up before you posted this though....thanks for wasting my time! :p

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by sweetwater07
i love my chevy.... i got a single cab 4.3L V6...wish it was a V8...but i get awesome gas mileage for a truck and its a really smooth ride. 06' too by the way..i recommend a chevy for sure
I love GM's. By far the best ride out of all the trucks. Right now I drive an '03 GMC with that exact same V6. That engine's been on the market forever because it has such a great track record. The design started in the late-80's, the only things to change were the Vortec system and the improvement of the fi system from an old throttle body system to the sequential fuel injection they have now.

Great, great truck. If I didn't have to get a bigger engine, I'd drive this one into the ground. It only has 93k miles and we've never done a single thing except change the oil and the belt. Those V8's actually get slightly better mileage than the 4.3, but if you just need something to get you around, do some light work, and keep your wallet intact, both those and the old Ford V6's are bulletproof.

It looks like I'll be selling this one to a family member when we get into a new pickup, so at least I'll get to drive it from time to time.


Originally posted by TexanAlum_06
Okay well being since I work at a dealership and I try and sell F-150s everyday I will give my 2 cents. First off. August/ September of next year will be the best time to a 2008 F150. They are totally redesigning the F-150 again for 2009 and adding an optional V6 Powerstroke deisel for the 150. it will be a pretty penny but it will be nice. You will see good rebates on the 2008 trucks around this time next year because the 2009's will be coming out and any dealership will be wanting to get rid of 08's( we are trying to do that now with 07's!!!). The F150 is a great truck ( not saying that because I work for FORD ) If I was going to buy a new truck it would be a ford or a chevy. The F-150 might not have the most power or towing or w/e you ford haters wanna throw out there, but overall I feel it has the best qaulity, there has to be some reason its been the # 1 selling truck for 30+ years. you couldnt pay me to buy a dodge, engines are great but the truck doesnt last, and they HAVE THE WORST TRADE IN VALUE!!!!!!! trust me I know. the only thing a 4x4 is good for fi you dont really need it is trade in value. but if u plan on keeping your truck for 200k miles, it will be a wholesale truck by then if u trade it in and wont really matter if its a 4x4. The Tundras are nice, its a litle different styling. they did a good job advertising the horsepower and stuff because thats what americans are drawn to... POWER. and yeah it might go 0-60 in 6.2 seconds.... but what good does that do you? you gonna go to the strip? I have driven one and it is nice. but if u dig deep into the new Tundra trucks and break them down to the frame and suspension and overall qaulity, it doesnt even compare to the ford or chevy. not to mention the pretty price tag. The Iforce engine is not a standard option. its expensive. I dont really have anything for the Titan, havent driven one or seen one. A few other things. If I was you, unless your paying cash. if you have good standings with a bank or credit union. do OUTSIDE FINANCING!!! that way you can take all the rebates and discounts and then go to your own bank and still get a good interest rate. if u finance through FMC or GMC financial you will either take the rebates and get a crappy interest rate or forfeit all rebates and get like 0%. with outside financing you can get both! secondly, Salesman dont ask for downpayments to rob you of your money, smart buyers put atleast enough money down to cover your taxes. it helps in the long run. 3rd, dont get sucked into the " Oh well Kelly Blue book says my car is worth this BS" Nada KBB Edmonds. etc are just guidelines... they arent the ones buying and sellin vehicles they are jsut estimating. dont put to much credibility in them. and lasly.... Dont go into a dealership with a crappy Mr Macho attitude because 2 things will happen A) if the salesman or manager gets the chance, they will rip you a new one because you thought you were gonna treat the salesman like crap and B) when a really realyl good deal hits you right in the mouth, you will pass on it because your to prideful to eat your words or your mind is set on the fact that you cant buy because its only the first dealership you stopped at etc etc. My brother pulled that on me and thought he would shop my price and he bought at another dealership because theyshowed him a better deal on paper but in reality he got his head ripped off. I see it all the time. i guess thats enough for now......
Thanks for all the help. I come from a family of "master negotiators," LOL, but I've learned that a great dealership and a supportive salesman is easily worth a few extra bucks a month.

(Well, I'm a 'master negotiator' in my own mind. Let me keep thinking that and I'll be a happy man. :) )

My dad got $8,500 off this '03 single cab (MSRP $22k) I drive right now, but we got really lucky that we bought it from such a great dealership. Went to our little hometown dealership in Aransas Pass. We already knew most of the guys who work there, so whenever they were able to work out a deal that worked for us, we were stoked. This is our third vehicle to buy from them and they've been great the whole way through. I can call them up, ask them a question, and they'll do everything they can to find the answer.

One time I called up with a question about some squeaking coming from the engine on my old '90 Suburban, and they told me to hold the phone up to the motor. Pointed me in the right direction and I was on my way.

When I got my last truck, a brand new '98 S-10, after my senior year in HS, we got a great deal on it. A Houston-type deal down in Corpus. But the dealership I bought it from was junk, just like that truck. Worst vehicle my family has ever owned. (Well, either that or my sister's '01 Rodeo.)

As soon as it hit 36k miles, they were done with the warranty. The service was horrible, the mechanics were horrible, they messed up everything they tried to fix, and by the time I realized that I should be going to another dealership it was too late.

Heck, I had something go out between 36k and 37k miles (and it's not like it took a long time for me to get to 37k... I put almost 50k miles on that truck the first year I owned it) and they wouldn't do anything for me. Cracked the head because the water pump went out, had to spend my own money to fix a truck that was less than a year old.

But thanks for everything. A lot of good info in there. I may have to take a look at that diesel. If it's a $5k option, my eyes will immediately turn the other way. But if it's half that, I'll have to take it into consideration.

[IHStangFan]

a few numbers to go by...

The GM 6.0L gas V8 makes 373ft/lbs or 375ft/lbs of torque depending on if its the Vortec MAX or not...both at around 4400rpm...kinda high for peak torque.

Nissan makes 385ft/lbs at 3400rpm

Toyota makes 401ft/lbs ta 3600rpm

Ford makes 365ft/lbs at 3750rpm

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by IHStangFan




sounds like your mind was made up before you posted this though....thanks for wasting my time! :p [/B]
ROFL. Anytime, B.

I liked that old Tundra of yours. Smoother ride than the new ones, but didn't have the power. The new ones handle better, but are a lot more bumpy. And you know I'm an 86-year-old at heart. I love those Caddys.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
ROFL. Anytime, B.

I liked that old Tundra of yours. Smoother ride than the new ones, but didn't have the power. The new ones handle better, but are a lot more bumpy. And you know I'm an 86-year-old at heart. I love those Caddys. LOL...yeah mine was an 04..which had 245hp...the year after they upped the power in the 4.7L to 282hp which was much more spunky.

If you want a good truck, go out and do what I did..find you an 03 F-250 w/ the 6.0L Powerstroke....big, rides nice, huge room inside, fullsized bed, 20+mpg and 325hp and 570ft/lbs of torque! LOL. AND...I got it for 20K

[burnet44]

Me and my family always bought Chevy
about 8 years ago I got a great deal on an Expedition
It was great
I bought an Edge Ranger
excellent
I bought a Tauras sp for my oldest

Not a lick of problems with any of them
got 150,000
100,000
and 75,000
on them
Ill buy Ford

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
LOL...yeah mine was an 04..which had 245hp...the year after they upped the power in the 4.7L to 282hp which was much more spunky.

If you want a good truck, go out and do what I did..find you an 03 F-250 w/ the 6.0L Powerstroke....big, rides nice, huge room inside, fullsized bed, 20+mpg and 325hp and 570ft/lbs of torque! LOL. AND...I got it for 20K
I'd love to find a good deal on a diesel. If I did, we'd drive it waaaay past 200k. I could get my long bed and she could have her crew cab.

I've seen specials on Powerstrokes for the low-20's, but they're very stripped-down and I'd imagine one with the options we're looking for would run about $5k more than the half tons.

Honestly, though, I don't like the way the F-250's ride at all. We test drove all the heavy duties and we went from the stiffest ride to the cushiest ride. We test drove the Ford first (those Super Duties are the best-looking trucks on the market) and it was really stiff, especially in the backseat. Then we went to the Dodge. Much smoother, but it was a huge jump from the Dodge to the Chevy.

Still I'd probably go with the Powerstroke if we wound up going with a diesel just because of the overall reputation of the engines/trucks. You never hear anything bad about Ford heavy duties. Never heard anything bad about the Duramax, but never heard anything great either. On the other hand, you never hear anything bad about Cummins Turbo Diesels....

That is all. :D

[RMAC]

Russ, I just got an 07' Chevy w/ 1/2 ton single cab work truck with the new body style and it rides as smooth as most 1 ton crew cabs. I know I've only owned 2 pickups but most of my buddy's had new trucks when I had my '95 dodge 1/2 ton and my Chevy now rides smoother than my buddies' '06 crew cabs. Chevy really did build them good this year. It might just be that I'm so happy w/ a brand new truck, but for only a 1/2 ton single cab, it really is nice. I got it for about 4K off the sticker price in August of this year and I've been completely satisfied with it. AND. . . what you might now know, all Chevy models now come standard w/ OnStar. It's pretty nice to have it there as I've used it a few times. They also come standard with a handsfree phone that gives your truck its own number. You can pay like an extre $5 a year and get those minutes deducted from your plan. It's really nice b/t Lubbock and Graham, or even out in the middle of nowhere, where I wouldn't have any service, or hunting to be able to call the house the let the parents know that I'll be home after a while. But I do really like the new Chevy's this year.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I'd love to find a good deal on a diesel. If I did, we'd drive it waaaay past 200k. I could get my long bed and she could have her crew cab.

I've seen specials on Powerstrokes for the low-20's, but they're very stripped-down and I'd imagine one with the options we're looking for would run about $5k more than the half tons.

Honestly, though, I don't like the way the F-250's ride at all. We test drove all the heavy duties and we went from the stiffest ride to the cushiest ride. We test drove the Ford first (those Super Duties are the best-looking trucks on the market) and it was really stiff, especially in the backseat. Then we went to the Dodge. Much smoother, but it was a huge jump from the Dodge to the Chevy.

Still I'd probably go with the Powerstroke if we wound up going with a diesel just because of the overall reputation of the engines/trucks. You never hear anything bad about Ford heavy duties. Never heard anything bad about the Duramax, but never heard anything great either. On the other hand, you never hear anything bad about Cummins Turbo Diesels....

That is all. :D you just gotta look around...specially here in Houston....when I bought mine...its an 03 XLT, power windows, locks, rear backing sonar, tow package, cruise, etc. 6.0L Powerstroke, and had 60K miles..which is nothing on a diesel. There was one sitting right next to it, same truck, 03 XLT, but had the 7.3L Powerstroke (last year of the 7.3) and it was 18K. The thing I didn't like about the Duramax is that it has alum. heads. On a diesel that just doesn't make sense to me due to the added heat a diesel puts off. Strong runners though. The Cummins is bullet proof, but its got that POS truck built around it. LOL. We're actually looking for a mid-sized SUV for Kristen. Went and test drove many....and you'd be suprised w/ our choice. Probably gonna come home in Feb. and pay cash for it. We are sold on the Hyundai Santa Fe. The base model is as loaded as everyone elses top end models. Plenty of power, good mileage, built GREAT, 100K/10yr warranty, just a nice riding, quiet, plush vehicle for the modest sticker of 23K. EXCELLENT vehicle..I was shocked at the quality.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by RMAC
Russ, I just got an 07' Chevy w/ 1/2 ton single cab work truck with the new body style and it rides as smooth as most 1 ton crew cabs. I know I've only owned 2 pickups but most of my buddy's had new trucks when I had my '95 dodge 1/2 ton and my Chevy now rides smoother than my buddies' '06 crew cabs. Chevy really did build them good this year. It might just be that I'm so happy w/ a brand new truck, but for only a 1/2 ton single cab, it really is nice. I got it for about 4K off the sticker price in August of this year and I've been completely satisfied with it. AND. . . what you might now know, all Chevy models now come standard w/ OnStar. It's pretty nice to have it there as I've used it a few times. They also come standard with a handsfree phone that gives your truck its own number. You can pay like an extre $5 a year and get those minutes deducted from your plan. It's really nice b/t Lubbock and Graham, or even out in the middle of nowhere, where I wouldn't have any service, or hunting to be able to call the house the let the parents know that I'll be home after a while. But I do really like the new Chevy's this year.
I love the GM's, and to be perfectly honest it's hard to hate any of the pickups out there nowadays. Dodge has come a long ways with their A/T and they're putting a good all-around drivetrain in their pickups now.

Fords have always been the 'ranch trucks,' the Toyotas and Nissans have really come around and are pushing GM in the engineering of their vehicles, and Chevys are just good all-around work/road trucks. I think that small V8 in the GM's these days is the best bang for your buck out of any engine out there.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I love the GM's, and to be perfectly honest it's hard to hate any of the pickups out there nowadays. Dodge has come a long ways with their A/T and they're putting a good all-around drivetrain in their pickups now.

Fords have always been the 'ranch trucks,' the Toyotas and Nissans have really come around and are pushing GM in the engineering of their vehicles, and Chevys are just good all-around work/road trucks. I think that small V8 in the GM's these days is the best bang for your buck out of any engine out there. you remember my 01 single cab GMC...had the 4.8L V8 in it. That thing would pull anything I wanted, and we all know from experience it'd do 130mph after I removed the top end limiter and put in the extended speedo, LOL.

[TexanAlum_06]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I'd love to find a good deal on a diesel. If I did, we'd drive it waaaay past 200k. I could get my long bed and she could have her crew cab.

I've seen specials on Powerstrokes for the low-20's, but they're very stripped-down and I'd imagine one with the options we're looking for would run about $5k more than the half tons.

Honestly, though, I don't like the way the F-250's ride at all. We test drove all the heavy duties and we went from the stiffest ride to the cushiest ride. We test drove the Ford first (those Super Duties are the best-looking trucks on the market) and it was really stiff, especially in the backseat. Then we went to the Dodge. Much smoother, but it was a huge jump from the Dodge to the Chevy.

Still I'd probably go with the Powerstroke if we wound up going with a diesel just because of the overall reputation of the engines/trucks. You never hear anything bad about Ford heavy duties. Never heard anything bad about the Duramax, but never heard anything great either. On the other hand, you never hear anything bad about Cummins Turbo Diesels....

That is all. :D

The only problem with the dodge diesel is the truck. The CUMMINS will last a life time. but the truck itself wont. The New 6.4 powerstroke in the 08 ford SD is awesome and those trucks ride nice and they are queit. you cant even hear the engine while in the cab and you can barely hear it standing outside it. they are still working a few kinks out in the new motor but it is solid. the only problem. 80% of america cant afford them, a base model XLT 4x2 deisel 2008 still stickers around 40k. if your nit picky with options I would advise anyone to order your own vehicle. you get exactly what you want and you wont pay a dime for anythign you dont want. another thing, dont put to much thought into newspaper ad unit pricing. its bogus, they might sell you the vehicle dirt cheap but they will make you buy penstriping, undercoating and stuff like that, that is already on the vehicle, plus bogus dealer prep charges and environmental fees which are totally BS, either way, by the time they add all that stuff up your back up to full sticker, maybe a little less. its all irrelavent, add units are designed to get you in the door. the dealership will make their money some way. make sure you read all the disclaimers at the bottom of the newspaper add and the truth will be spoken ( in the fine print ),another thing, if you dont have to have a BRAND new one, buy a year old Pre Owned one. will save you a lot of money, cuz the vehicle would of already had the 4-5k depreciation in the 1st year.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

If you're in the market for a diesel, you should definitely check out the Dodge simply because they are the best diesel engine on the market hands down. I've seen guys pull an engine swap and put a Cummins into a Ford or a Chevy, but I've never seen anyone swap a Cummins out of a Dodge truck for something else, just to put it into perspective. I am a proud owner of a 24 valve 5.9L Cummins, and she hasn't failed me yet. It is by far the best and most reliable truck that our family has owned at 92K miles and five years old. It's not quite as flashy as the Fords, nor is it as smooth as a Chevy, but throw that baby into gear and let off of the clutch and you know you got the right truck. ;)

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
you just gotta look around...specially here in Houston....when I bought mine...its an 03 XLT, power windows, locks, rear backing sonar, tow package, cruise, etc. 6.0L Powerstroke, and had 60K miles..which is nothing on a diesel. There was one sitting right next to it, same truck, 03 XLT, but had the 7.3L Powerstroke (last year of the 7.3) and it was 18K. The thing I didn't like about the Duramax is that it has alum. heads. On a diesel that just doesn't make sense to me due to the added heat a diesel puts off. Strong runners though. The Cummins is bullet proof, but its got that POS truck built around it. LOL. We're actually looking for a mid-sized SUV for Kristen. Went and test drove many....and you'd be suprised w/ our choice. Probably gonna come home in Feb. and pay cash for it. We are sold on the Hyundai Santa Fe. The base model is as loaded as everyone elses top end models. Plenty of power, good mileage, built GREAT, 100K/10yr warranty, just a nice riding, quiet, plush vehicle for the modest sticker of 23K. EXCELLENT vehicle..I was shocked at the quality.
You know me, I've always thought that Dodge put out the best-looking half tons on the market, but their quality used to not be on par with the other companies.' I'd rather gamble on Democracy in North Korea than gamble on one of those old automatic trannys they were putting in their trucks up until the early-00's.

They've come a long way, though. The same thing is happening to them right now that did when Lee Iacocca took over some 30 years ago. Buying a Chrysler in the mid- to late-70's was like buying Enron stock in early-00's. It's downfall was coming. Soon.

Back to the original point, Dodge's sales were slipping in the early-00's, just like the late-70's and early-80's. That body style change was a shot in the arm, but the concerns over build quality were still there (especially over that transmission, possibly the worst one produced since the Yugo) and some of the kinks followed the Rams into the new body style. Dodge tried to fix it, but wound up having to redesign everything about the tranny to make it work.

But they've put their money where their mouth is these days with that unlimited powertrain warranty. I haven't heard anything bad about the running gear lately, so they must have reason to have a ton of confidence in that tranny. Still some knick-knack problems with the Ram (that's why I won't buy one), but even you have to admit they're not a horrible truck anymore. That little V8 still needs to be done away with (it's more of a dog than the little Ford V8).

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
you remember my 01 single cab GMC...had the 4.8L V8 in it. That thing would pull anything I wanted, and we all know from experience it'd do 130mph after I removed the top end limiter and put in the extended speedo, LOL.
My underwear are still stained.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
If you're in the market for a diesel, you should definitely check out the Dodge simply because they are the best diesel engine on the market hands down. I've seen guys pull an engine swap and put a Cummins into a Ford or a Chevy, but I've never seen anyone swap a Cummins out of a Dodge truck for something else, just to put it into perspective. I am a proud owner of a 24 valve 5.9L Cummins, and she hasn't failed me yet. It is by far the best and most reliable truck that our family has owned at 92K miles and five years old. It's not quite as flashy as the Fords, nor is it as smooth as a Chevy, but throw that baby into gear and let off of the clutch and you know you got the right truck. ;) The Cummins engine is legendary we all know this. It's the pickup that's built around it I don't care for. I own a Dodge now..and had a brand spankin new one as a work truck....the engine is solid yes...but the fit and finish of the rest of the truck is just second rate. I have a theory on the Cummins engine as well. Dodge was the first to start putting a diesel in their ickups...and cowboys and rodeo goers jumped on it because it would out pull any gas engine.....perfect for pulling their large horse trailers....that has stuck w/ certain people, you know...old habits die hard. Also, I know a handful of guys that drive them for no other reason than "that sound". The sound the inline 6 cyl diesel makes. There's also alot of aftermarket parts for the Cummins because of the length of time its been around. Funny though...everyone I know that has a Cummins Dodge that HASN'T had tranny problems w/ it....has the manual tranny...no exceptions. Everyone else I know w/ a Dodge pickup..myself included..that had the auto tranny...has had problems reguardless of the engine they had. Just my .02

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
The Cummins engine is legendary we all know this. It's the pickup that's built around it I don't care for. I own a Dodge now..and had a brand spankin new one as a work truck....the engine is solid yes...but the fit and finish of the rest of the truck is just second rate. I have a theory on the Cummins engine as well. Dodge was the first to start putting a diesel in their ickups...and cowboys and rodeo goers jumped on it because it would out pull any gas engine.....perfect for pulling their large horse trailers....that has stuck w/ certain people, you know...old habits die hard. Also, I know a handful of guys that drive them for no other reason than "that sound". The sound the inline 6 cyl diesel makes. There's also alot of aftermarket parts for the Cummins because of the length of time its been around. Funny though...everyone I know that has a Cummins Dodge that HASN'T had tranny problems w/ it....has the manual tranny...no exceptions. Everyone else I know w/ a Dodge pickup..myself included..that had the auto tranny...has had problems reguardless of the engine they had. Just my .02

Well, I have a 6-speed if that tells you anything. I love my truck to death though, it makes me smile every day when I go out and crank it up. Russ has seen it before I believe, and it's a pretty good looking pickup. Someone has a used model for sale in Rockdale that is almost like it, except I have the two-tone white and silver and that one is solid white. Not sure what type of tranny it has, though.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
You know me, I've always thought that Dodge put out the best-looking half tons on the market, but their quality used to not be on par with the other companies.' I'd rather gamble on Democracy in North Korea than gamble on one of those old automatic trannys they were putting in their trucks up until the early-00's.

They've come a long way, though. The same thing is happening to them right now that did when Lee Iacocca took over some 30 years ago. Buying a Chrysler in the mid- to late-70's was like buying Enron stock in early-00's. It's downfall was coming. Soon.

Back to the original point, Dodge's sales were slipping in the early-00's, just like the late-70's and early-80's. That body style change was a shot in the arm, but the concerns over build quality were still there (especially over that transmission, possibly the worst one produced since the Yugo) and some of the kinks followed the Rams into the new body style. Dodge tried to fix it, but wound up having to redesign everything about the tranny to make it work.

But they've put their money where their mouth is these days with that unlimited powertrain warranty. I haven't heard anything bad about the running gear lately, so they must have reason to have a ton of confidence in that tranny. Still some knick-knack problems with the Ram (that's why I won't buy one), but even you have to admit they're not a horrible truck anymore. That little V8 still needs to be done away with (it's more of a dog than the little Ford V8). I halfway agree. Dodges are better trucks....they have come along..but at the same time...everyone else has moved forward as well. So in my mind..a 2008 Dodge is on the par of a 2005 Chevy or Ford. The interiors are ALL exactly the same...the new interior in the 2500s and 3500s are the same as whats in my 03 half ton...with the exception of the knobs on the air con and the radio. As you move up in models to the top end..the only diff. is the fake looking wood trim and a nav system. There is really no diff. in trim levels...not like the Chevy and Ford. You are right about the 4.7L V8 though...its a gutless turd!! My Husqvarna riding mower has more power than my wife's truck. My work truck was a brand new 07 w/ the 4.7L and it was no diff. GUTLESS TURD! The Vortec 4.3L 6 would run circles around it.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Well, I have a 6-speed if that tells you anything. I love my truck to death though, it makes me smile every day when I go out and crank it up. Russ has seen it before I believe, and it's a pretty good looking pickup. Someone has a used model for sale in Rockdale that is almost like it, except I have the two-tone white and silver and that one is solid white. Not sure what type of tranny it has, though. I know the feeling...every time I crank my Ford I smile. I love that clattering diesel sound, LOL.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
I know the feeling...every time I crank my Ford I smile. I love that clattering diesel sound, LOL.

Yeah, but you can't beat that Cummins sound. You can tell the difference between the two very easily. I really like the whistling sound the Powerstroke makes when you get into the throttle, but I wouldn't trade it my Cummins for one.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Yeah, but you can't beat that Cummins sound. You can tell the difference between the two very easily. I really like the whistling sound the Powerstroke makes when you get into the throttle, but I wouldn't trade it my Cummins for one. yeah...I like the turbo whistle from my Powerstroke...but yes...it is not that 6 cyl sound. Although...a buddy of mine has my exact truck w/ a 4in MBRP turbo-back exhaust on it...it sounds GREAT! I myself like the 4" MagnaFlow turbo-back, but its basically the same exhaust.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by TexanAlum_06
The only problem with the dodge diesel is the truck. The CUMMINS will last a life time. but the truck itself wont. The New 6.4 powerstroke in the 08 ford SD is awesome and those trucks ride nice and they are queit. you cant even hear the engine while in the cab and you can barely hear it standing outside it. they are still working a few kinks out in the new motor but it is solid. the only problem. 80% of america cant afford them, a base model XLT 4x2 deisel 2008 still stickers around 40k. if your nit picky with options I would advise anyone to order your own vehicle. you get exactly what you want and you wont pay a dime for anythign you dont want. another thing, dont put to much thought into newspaper ad unit pricing. its bogus, they might sell you the vehicle dirt cheap but they will make you buy penstriping, undercoating and stuff like that, that is already on the vehicle, plus bogus dealer prep charges and environmental fees which are totally BS, either way, by the time they add all that stuff up your back up to full sticker, maybe a little less. its all irrelavent, add units are designed to get you in the door. the dealership will make their money some way. make sure you read all the disclaimers at the bottom of the newspaper add and the truth will be spoken ( in the fine print ),another thing, if you dont have to have a BRAND new one, buy a year old Pre Owned one. will save you a lot of money, cuz the vehicle would of already had the 4-5k depreciation in the 1st year.
You're absolutely right about being careful. I know all about those ads. Been duped one or ten times by those things. They're either stripped down or "bowed up," there's always a limited quantity that seems to be suddenly sold as soon as you call (even if you call at 6 in the morning), all kinds of stuff. But you can still walk into a dealership, find the truck you want, and get a good five digits off (well, depending on the sticker price... over $30k I'd expect to get no less than $10k off... had Joe Myers Ford here in Jersey Village offering us a $33k Lariat for $24k about four weeks ago... That's $9k off already and they were more than willing to come down further).

My dad taught me a valuable lesson a long time ago... never buy a vehicle that's less than 18 months old unless it's an unbelievable deal. You can get a brand new one for less 90% of the time.

He was in the car business back in the day and said the only way a dealership can come down a ways on the price of a used vehicle is if they didn't put much into on the other end. Say if someone came in desperate to get into a different car and willingly fleeced himself in order to get into another vehicle.

There's always more play room with new cars. Between factory incentives, dealer incentives (something the dealers don't always tell the customer), kickbacks (a secret the dealers don't always tell the salesmen), etc, there's no reason you can't walk out of a dealership at the right time of year and get no less than a third off the sticker price. And even under those circumstances, the dealership usually walks away happy.

Of course this only works with American cars. Nix that if you're talking about Toyotas, Hondas, or Euros... or Jeep Wranglers. Then it's OK to buy used. There's hardly any markup on those cars.

Like I said, we'll be patient when we buy. We love Joe Myers, the way they run things and the way they take care of their own, so if we get a Ford we'll probably try to buy from there. The guys over there are awesome and we had a great time just hanging out. If it's a GMC, who knows? But keep the info coming. This is good stuff.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Well, I have a 6-speed if that tells you anything. I love my truck to death though, it makes me smile every day when I go out and crank it up. Russ has seen it before I believe, and it's a pretty good looking pickup. Someone has a used model for sale in Rockdale that is almost like it, except I have the two-tone white and silver and that one is solid white. Not sure what type of tranny it has, though.
Look at 'er. She's a beaut, isn't she.

Your truck is prettier than a thousand dollar hooker. I love that thing. That may be my favorite body style of any truck ever made, and it was still in great shape when I saw it a little over a year ago. But one of the things I love about your truck is that it has that six speed. Those automatics are terrible trannys.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Look at 'er. She's a beaut, isn't she.

Your truck is prettier than a thousand dollar hooker. I love that thing. That may be my favorite body style of any truck ever made, and it was still in great shape when I saw it a little over a year ago. But one of the things I love about your truck is that it has that six speed. Those automatics are terrible trannys.

It's still a gorgeous truck. I think there are maybe a total of five baby dimples on the entire truck, and the tailgate is creased a little bit from where I dropped a gooseneck on it, but other than that it is cosmetically perfect. I have to order a new dash for it because it cracked and I need to go get the windshield replaced from where it cracked. I still love her though, and after driving that six speed, I hate driving automatics, even in traffic.

[TexanAlum_06]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
You're absolutely right about being careful. I know all about those ads. Been duped one or ten times by those things. They're either stripped down or "bowed up," there's always a limited quantity that seems to be suddenly sold as soon as you call (even if you call at 6 in the morning), all kinds of stuff. But you can still walk into a dealership, find the truck you want, and get a good five digits off (well, depending on the sticker price... over $30k I'd expect to get no less than $10k off... had Joe Myers Ford here in Jersey Village offering us a $33k Lariat for $24k about four weeks ago... That's $9k off already and they were more than willing to come down further).

My dad taught me a valuable lesson a long time ago... never buy a vehicle that's less than 18 months old unless it's an unbelievable deal. You can get a brand new one for less 90% of the time.

He was in the car business back in the day and said the only way a dealership can come down a ways on the price of a used vehicle is if they didn't put much into on the other end. Say if someone came in desperate to get into a different car and willingly fleeced himself in order to get into another vehicle.

There's always more play room with new cars. Between factory incentives, dealer incentives (something the dealers don't always tell the customer), kickbacks (a secret the dealers don't always tell the salesmen), etc, there's no reason you can't walk out of a dealership at the right time of year and get no less than a third off the sticker price. And even under those circumstances, the dealership usually walks away happy.

Of course this only works with American cars. Nix that if you're talking about Toyotas, Hondas, or Euros... or Jeep Wranglers. Then it's OK to buy used. There's hardly any markup on those cars.

Like I said, we'll be patient when we buy. We love Joe Myers, the way they run things and the way they take care of their own, so if we get a Ford we'll probably try to buy from there. The guys over there are awesome and we had a great time just hanging out. If it's a GMC, who knows? But keep the info coming. This is good stuff.

You can only get that much money off if its the right timing. mainly being if there is a good 4-6 K in rebates and the dealership is doing invoice pricing. theres not as much mark up in these vehicles as some may think. depends on the vehicle. a regular f150 super crew xlt has around 1800$ between msrp and invoice. now the more the expensive the vehicle, the more markup, theres a lot of markup on Super duties and real expensive expeditions,f150's, and explorers. the most mark up I have seen between invoice and MSRP was about 6850. but that was on a 2008 F450 KING RANCH DUALLY that stickered at almost 62k.:eek:

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by TexanAlum_06
a 2008 F450 KING RANCH DUALLY that stickered at almost 62k.:eek:

That is one Ford truck that I would not be ashamed to drive around town. Those are some good looking trucks.

[TexanAlum_06]

Originally posted by TexanAlum_06
You can only get that much money off if its the right timing. mainly being if there is a good 4-6 K in rebates and the dealership is doing invoice pricing. But like I said earlier, the dealership will make their money somewhere. so if you see that much off the MSRP. expect to see the bogus charges when you get into finance. theres not as much mark up in these vehicles as some may think. depends on the vehicle. a regular f150 super crew xlt has around 1800$ between msrp and invoice. now the more the expensive the vehicle, the more markup, theres a lot of markup on Super duties and real expensive expeditions,f150's, and explorers. the most mark up I have seen between invoice and MSRP was about 6850. but that was on a 2008 F450 KING RANCH DUALLY that stickered at almost 62k.:eek:

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by TexanAlum_06


It's funny that you say that, I was thinking the same thing.

[44INAROW]

man, you guys really do yorur homework when you buy a truck.. We're very good friends of the local Ford dealer, so we buy Ford and we haven't been dissappointed. Excellent service (rarely needed except for regular maintenance) Husband has an F150 SuperCrew with 4WD and hasn't had any trouble with it and uses it at the lease mainly, I have an XL Expedition and I love it and son has a Montego (oops we're not talking cars never mind) Russ my suggestion, go with the one your fiance' likes - believe me on this :)

[Snyder_TigerFan]

Originally posted by 44INAROW
Russ my suggestion, go with the one your fiance' likes - believe me on this :)

Don't do that, cause before to long it'll end up being her's. :)

[44INAROW]

Originally posted by Snyder_TigerFan
Don't do that, cause before to long it'll end up being her's. :)

you catch on quick :D :D :D :D

[slpybear the bullfan]

One other thing you might consider if buying new... the GMs now have a 5 year/100,000 mile powertrain warranty. That is pretty good confidence in the engine and tranny.

[pirate4state]

after reading all of this i am A) ready for a nap and B) want a new truck!! :weeping: :)

[piratebg]

Well, the only truck I've ever had was a 76 Ford Ranger when I was 16. I loved that truck. My uncle, who was a Ford kind of guy, has recently turned into a Tundra man along with my father. Of course they really don't do any heavy pulling or anything like that, but the trucks look nice and they drive pretty well. I like them.

[crzyjournalist03]

I drove a '93 Ford Ranger until about a year ago. It was the first car my parents ever bought brand new. Between my father and I, we put well over 160,000 on it and he just sold it to a kid in Forney. In the 15 years that my family owned the truck, we never had any major problem.

Of course, we changed the oil religiously and changed the brake pads and spark plugs as they wore, but that's what you have to do with any vehicle.

It was a lot smaller than the truck you're looking to buy, but it was definitely reliable and sturdy.

[Gp83]

Ford man here. I have had 5 Mustangs in the past 7 years including a nice Cobra

[crzyjournalist03]

Originally posted by Gp83
Ford man here. I have had 5 Mustangs in the past 7 years including a nice Cobra

:eek: Why have you gone through so many?

[Gp83]

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
:eek: Why have you gone through so many?

I kept upgrading to better and better

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by TexanAlum_06
You can only get that much money off if its the right timing. mainly being if there is a good 4-6 K in rebates and the dealership is doing invoice pricing. theres not as much mark up in these vehicles as some may think. depends on the vehicle. a regular f150 super crew xlt has around 1800$ between msrp and invoice. now the more the expensive the vehicle, the more markup, theres a lot of markup on Super duties and real expensive expeditions,f150's, and explorers. the most mark up I have seen between invoice and MSRP was about 6850. but that was on a 2008 F450 KING RANCH DUALLY that stickered at almost 62k.:eek:
Ehhhh, invoice is just a number. Management at a dealership plans pretty far ahead, so actual cost of the truck to the dealer is much lower than invoice. Any dealership has at least $4k of wiggle room on any truck at all times, even if there are zero rebates available. That's where kickbacks, rewards, etc come into play.

My dad used to work at a Cadillac/Buick dealership in Corpus. Always wanted a Grand National, but he would've "settled" for one of those old Regals. Loved the way they looked.

The sticker on those Regals (he worked there in the mid-80's) was between $15k-$16k, and invoice was about $1800 less back then, but he said that the actual dealer cost of the car (which is a completely separate number from invoice) was about $4k or $5k less than sticker, even 20 years ago. Basically, this is how it breaks down:

Invoice- The price of a vehicle from the factory if a vehicle was bought as a single unit.

Dealer Cost- The actual price of a vehicle the dealer pays to the factory.

Think of it as a bulk discount. Kinda like buying one rubber banana for $1 vs. buying 1000 for $600. The dealer doesn't even let the salesmen know about the kickbacks, rewards, and other "fine print" discounts they get. They get this money or these discounts based on a lot of things. Some of it has to do with taxes (he explained it to me once, maybe Bullaholic can explain more... either him or his dad owned a dealerships), some has to do with the number of vehicles sold, and there's some more that has to do with exact vehicles bought with the exact same options. There's a bunch more, I just forget what they all are now, but the way they hurt most people is on the other end of the deal.

I have a good friend who got $12k off the MSRP of a truck and was stoked, but they gave him about $5k less on his trade-in. He was still happy with a $7k discount, but it all depends on the dealership, too. Some dealerships will tell you to go down to other dealerships and get a quote on your trade-in. That's always a good sign in my book. Others will try to work the two ends together in order to give you a deal that makes you happy.

We're won't do a trade-in, just come in with a check, so we'll wait for the right deal. We're content to wait until August or December, or later if we have to, for the truck. Like I said, it just depends on the deal and the timing. I have no problems driving a cheaper truck for a little longer if we don't find the right situation for us.

[TMer25]

I drive a Mark LT so I guess I fall on the Ford side of things.

[TexanAlum_06]

What you are referring to BDR is "Hold Back". which is the difference between invoice and what the dealership pays. and it varies between how expensive the vehicle is. it ranges anywhere from 500-1650. depends on what it is. usually the only time a dealer will give up holdback is if it is on a vehicle that they really really need to get rid of or you know the manager or GM personal and they give it to you.

[Da Mules]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I'd love to find a good deal on a diesel. If I did, we'd drive it waaaay past 200k. I could get my long bed and she could have her crew cab.
. Never heard anything bad about the Duramax, but never heard anything great either. On the other hand, you never hear anything bad about Cummins Turbo Diesels....

That is all. :D
the D/max is the King. I've owned Strokes and Dodges both. the Dmax is 10 times more reliable than the disastrous Ford PowerStroke 6.0L. The Cummins set the standard for light-duty truck diesels, but problem is, it only comes wrapped in a Dodge. I wasn't real comfortable buying this first Dmax, but Chebbies are built so much better than the Stodgie Dodgies. well, after driving and towing for 2 years now, wouldn't think of going back to Dodge. and will not ever own another Ferd with a Navistar Beak-down King diesel in it.

[kof96]

honda is a much better car than any gm or ford.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Da Mules
the D/max is the King. I've owned Strokes and Dodges both. the Dmax is 10 times more reliable than the disastrous Ford PowerStroke 6.0L. The Cummins set the standard for light-duty truck diesels, but problem is, it only comes wrapped in a Dodge. I wasn't real comfortable buying this first Dmax, but Chebbies are built so much better than the Stodgie Dodgies. well, after driving and towing for 2 years now, wouldn't think of going back to Dodge. and will not ever own another Ferd with a Navistar Beak-down King diesel in it.
Really? I've heard some bad things about the post-7.3 diesels that Ford was putting in their trucks and had figured maybe that's why they were putting that new diesel in their trucks, but nothing concrete.

So the DMax is that good, huh? Crazy.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by kof96
honda is a much better car than any gm or ford.
You'd be surprised at how far the American companies have come over the last few years.

Not saying that the cars are better than Hondas yet, but they're catching up. Quick.

I actually drove a Ridgeline a little over a month ago, Chieeeee.... I mean, K. The interior was nice and everything seemed well-built, but the ride was pretty stiff and I wasn't a big fan of the powertrain.

[Da Mules]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by big daddy russ
[B]Really? I've heard some bad things about the post-7.3 diesels that Ford was putting in their trucks and had figured maybe that's why they were putting that new diesel in their trucks, but nothing concrete.


the Ford/Navistar 6.0L is a disaster. so they follow up this over-complicated flawed design with an even more complicated Navistar 6.6L twin turbo design. I wouldn't trust it as far as I could throw it. Once bitten, twice shy. Word is that Ford is working on building their own diesel engine; and breaking off selling Navistar diesels altogether.

like I said, love the Cummins but the Dmax has more stuff out of the box, and comes wrapped in thbest ride and nicest interior. XM radio and OnStar.

If Ford had the Cummins and the Allison transmission, might have a tuff time deciding. RIght now the Dmax is the King of Diesels far as I'm concerned.

[slpybear the bullfan]

Love the Duramax.... would definitely give it the nod over the powerstroke. Cummins are a great engine, (LOUD), but yeah, it still comes wrapped in a Dodge truck.

Two Duramaxes... no problems...

[big daddy russ]

We're still leaning towards a half ton, but this is some interesting info on the diesels.

I still think the GM's interior is the nicest out of everyone else's, but that kinda goes along with their claim to the nicest ride. They put out the most refined truck on the market, so I kinda group that all into one.

But it seems like every argument I've heard against American trucks have been countered by my own experience with them. The guy at the Honda dealership told me that the interiors on the GM's weren't as well-built as the Hondas and that they would start rattling and falling apart around 100k. Then I dropped this bomb on him. My dad has 150k on his Suburban and I have 93k on my half ton and the interior's still in great shape. Much more well-built than my dad's old pickup, a '93 extended cab.

I think the claims of the better interiors from the foreign manufacturers are overexaggerated these days.

I also think after everything I've read and after hearing all the facts from this thread, I'm leaning even more heavily towards GM's. We'll probably go with GMC due to the interior upgrade over the Chevys, but from everything on here, trying to be completely objective, the GM's still seem like the nicest truck to me. The only things I would change would be the size of the gas tank, the bed length, and I would change that fugly body style. But as far as function, they're very tough to beat.

The Ford would be my second choice. Long-term cost being as big an issue as it is for me, the Americans are much more affordable than Toyotas and Nissans.

After reading stuff from actual owners on different car forums, I haven't seen much difference at all between the reliability of a Ford and the reliability of a Nissan or Toyota. Seems like everyone starts having some minor problems (alternator, etc.) after 100k. For the American companies, you start to look for bigger ones (tranny) around 150k while you can tack maybe 15k-25k extra miles onto the Toyotas and Nissans for the bigger problems. But after pricing replacement parts, it's just not worth it to get into a Jap if I plan on keeping this thing past 200k miles. An little bitty 80-amp alternator from Toyota is $630 and a factory-rebuilt A/T will run you around $3k. A tranny on the GM is half that and the alternator is less than a quarter that price.

Long-term cost of ownership is just so much less that I can't see going any other way. If this was still 1995 and we were talking about cars, it would be a different story. But after stacking up just the facts (I didn't take any opinions into account) against facts, it has to be American.

Who knows, maybe Toyota and Nissan will come down in price drastically in the next year, or maybe they'll come out with something that blows me away, but I can't see going any other direction.

So this is where I stand right now:

1. GMC 1500HD Crew Cab 6.0L
2. Ford SuperCrew 5.4L w/6.5' bed
3. Nissan Titan
4. Toyota Tundra
5. Dodge Ram

[big daddy russ]

Oh, and this was a great link that helped out a lot. I also found a write-up about three of the trucks in this article, and tons of info on the forum.

link (http://www.motortrend.com/oftheyear/truck/112_0702_2007_truck_of_the_year_testing/index.html)

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by Da Mules
[QUOTE]Originally posted by big daddy russ
[B]Really? I've heard some bad things about the post-7.3 diesels that Ford was putting in their trucks and had figured maybe that's why they were putting that new diesel in their trucks, but nothing concrete.


the Ford/Navistar 6.0L is a disaster. so they follow up this over-complicated flawed design with an even more complicated Navistar 6.6L twin turbo design. I wouldn't trust it as far as I could throw it. Once bitten, twice shy. Word is that Ford is working on building their own diesel engine; and breaking off selling Navistar diesels altogether.

like I said, love the Cummins but the Dmax has more stuff out of the box, and comes wrapped in thbest ride and nicest interior. XM radio and OnStar.

If Ford had the Cummins and the Allison transmission, might have a tuff time deciding. RIght now the Dmax is the King of Diesels far as I'm concerned. its a 6.4L TT and its just like the first model run of anything...there are gonna be bugs to be worked out. The 6.0L was the same..after the first year there were relatively no problems. That is all.

[mrescape43]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
My fiance and I are considering buying a new pickup next August after we get married. Definitely want a half ton for the ride and comfort, especially considering how far they've come with towing capability.

We're going to be using it almost exclusively in town. Not much, if any, work. The only big job we'd need it for would be to tow a travel trailer a couple of times a year.

Basically, this is what I came up with. Most of you know that have been on here a while know that I like to chart everything out and see it side by side in front of me, so here's what I've had on paper.

We'll probably have this thing every bit of 200k miles, so longevity and cost of ownership in the long-term are extremely important. My family's had three GM pickups/SUV's with more than 200k that were virtually hassle-free. Any other input on that, especially from the Ford guys? Am I missing anything else important?


.................................Ford 5.4 V8....Chevy 6.0 V8........Chevy Ext.
.................................Crew Cab.......Crew Cab 5.5'......Cab 6.5'
...................................6.5' bed........bed/1500HD........bed/1500

Smoother Ride........................................!!!... ..........................

Stability..........................!!!............ ..........................................

Interior room + bed........!!!.................................... ..................

Power (HP/Ft-lb)..........300/365.........300/360*...........315/338

Max Towing..................9,300 lbs........10,500...............8,900

GVWR...........................7,050 lbs.........8,600................6,800

Payload........................1,660 lbs.........3,129................1,657

Gas Tank......................35.7 gals..........26 gals.............26 gals

MSRP............................$33,055........... $33,323............$30,300




*After riding in all three, the Chevy has more get-up and had more pull through the whole powerband than Ford. And both trucks had a 3.73 limited-slip rear end, so the gears wouldn't have been a factor.

Also, the MSRP is relative. Chevy cut their margins about a year ago, so the discounts aren't as good as Ford's. In August, I'd be able to get $11k-$12k off that Ford Super Crew while I could probably expect to get $10k off the Chevys. So this is what I'd spend on the truck itself walking out the door...

Ford: $21k-$22k
Chevy Crew: roughly $23K
Chevy X: roughly $20k

All trucks were almost identically-equipped. All had 3.73 non-slip rear ends, the towing package, the "basic nice" truck line (A/T, cruise, tilt, power windows/locks/etc, cloth seats). The only major differences was that the Ford had the bigger gas tank (it was a $75 option) and the Chevy X-Cab didn't have the trailer tow mirrors.

The three biggest sticking points with the Ford were that you could get a full-size bed in their crew cab (if it was up to me alone, I'd get a long bed x-cab), the gas tank is MUCH larger than the Chevy's, and that I could (possibly) get it for $2,000 cheaper. But the Chevy whips it in every other category.

Any other input? Sinton66, I know you're a Ford guy. Barrett, any experience with the Ford half tons?

Chevrolet uses a true locking rear differential. Not limited slip. Much better system. Fuel economy is also better in GM products. New Silverado is motor-trend truck of the year for 2007. I sell vehicles at Big Country Autoland in Snyder. PM me if you have any questions.

[Da Mules]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
its a 6.4L TT and its just like the first model run of anything...there are gonna be bugs to be worked out. The 6.0L was the same..after the first year there were relatively no problems. That is all.

Not so, Stang ol buddy. The warranty issues with the 6.0L engine darn near broke up that old Ford and Navistar gang earlier this year. Ford withheld a huge chunk of money for warranty payments on the 6.0L and Navistar quit shipping until an outside arbitrator stepped in. The 6.0 was and is by far the biggest problem diesel on the market. The 6.4L i.e. Godzilla flamethrower diesel will have to prove itself in my book before I'd plunk down my extra 5K. Once bitten twice shy.

Ford- Navistar dispute (http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto_News/Daily_Auto_News/Navistar_Ford_Feuding_Over_Diesel.S173.A11974.html )

[AP Panther Fan]

Originally posted by pirate4state
after reading all of this i am A) ready for a nap and B) want a new truck!! :weeping: :)


LOL....I gave up on page 4!:D

Two conclusions I have reached so far

1) Every male on here should post pictures of their vehicles...I think they are just as proud of them as women are of their children.....

and

2) TexasAlum_06 posts remind me of why I hate to vehicle shop...;)

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by Da Mules
Not so, Stang ol buddy. The warranty issues with the 6.0L engine darn near broke up that old Ford and Navistar gang earlier this year. Ford withheld a huge chunk of money for warranty payments on the 6.0L and Navistar quit shipping until an outside arbitrator stepped in. The 6.0 was and is by far the biggest problem diesel on the market. The 6.4L i.e. Godzilla flamethrower diesel will have to prove itself in my book before I'd plunk down my extra 5K. Once bitten twice shy.

Ford- Navistar dispute (http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto_News/Daily_Auto_News/Navistar_Ford_Feuding_Over_Diesel.S173.A11974.html ) I know all about the dispute between Navistar and Ford....but...what does that have to do w/ the reliability of the 6.0L engine? As said before...the first year run of the 6.0L was iffy, since then and even later model 03s were fine...ask the many many people that drive them daily. I know a guy who bought the Chevy, Duramax and dropped the extra chunk of change for the "bulletproof" Allison Tranny......300 miles past warranty the tranny took a crap..Chevy did not want to work w/ the guy to get it resolved. It was a mess....so to each their own. For MY money..the best diesel on the market at the moment is the Ford. :)

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
I know all about the dispute between Navistar and Ford....but...what does that have to do w/ the reliability of the 6.0L engine? As said before...the first year run of the 6.0L was iffy, since then and even later model 03s were fine...ask the many many people that drive them daily. I know a guy who bought the Chevy, Duramax and dropped the extra chunk of change for the "bulletproof" Allison Tranny......300 miles past warranty the tranny took a crap..Chevy did not want to work w/ the guy to get it resolved. It was a mess....so to each their own. For MY money..the best diesel on the market at the moment is the Ford. :)

I don't see why people don't just get standards if they're going to be doing a lot of towing anyways.

[necks_c/09]

chevy, nm

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
I don't see why people don't just get standards if they're going to be doing a lot of towing anyways. Gary...you ever tried to tow a large load through mountains w/ a stick shift? I have...but I've had lots of practice at it. Not recommended for the amateur, everyday flatland stick shift driver. :p

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
Gary...you ever tried to tow a large load through mountains w/ a stick shift? I have...but I've had lots of practice at it. Not recommended for the amateur, everyday flatland stick shift driver. :p

I've driven a standard for the last 3.75 years of my life, and that included pulling trailers, so I think I could probably handle it, but at the same time, I don't see myself pulling through any mountains here in Texas anytime soon. ;)

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
I've driven a standard for the last 3.75 years of my life, and that included pulling trailers, so I think I could probably handle it, but at the same time, I don't see myself pulling through any mountains here in Texas anytime soon. ;) point taken...but at the same time..some of us travel around...trailer stuff across country, etc. Towing here in east Texas is a BIT different from towing through the Rockies. ;)

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
point taken...but at the same time..some of us travel around...trailer stuff across country, etc. Towing here in east Texas is a BIT different from towing through the Rockies. ;)

I'm sure that it can be quite scary if you ever get stopped on a steep incline and have to start, and personally I never want to be in that situation without trailer brakes.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
I'm sure that it can be quite scary if you ever get stopped on a steep incline and have to start, and personally I never want to be in that situation without trailer brakes. heck...stopping on an incline and getting going again is the easy part.....keeping a load at a reasonable speed w/ the tranny (when you don't have a jake brake or a trans brake) after your brakes have gotten hot enough to fail is the hard part!! LOL. Thats when the runaway truck ramps become your best friend! I've never had to use one...but I've SEEN it...pretty wild.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
heck...stopping on an incline and getting going again is the easy part.....keeping a load at a reasonable speed w/ the tranny (when you don't have a jake brake or a trans brake) after your brakes have gotten hot enough to fail is the hard part!! LOL. Thats when the runaway truck ramps become your best friend! I've never had to use one...but I've SEEN it...pretty wild.

Yeah, and I have neither of those in my truck.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Yeah, and I have neither of those in my truck. I've seen inline exhaust brakes for diesel pickups....pretty spiffy...just wonder how effective they are. I know they're a tad pricey..although...if I was running a hotshot service or something and had to get into mtns...my truck would have one reguardless if it was a stick or an auto.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
I've seen inline exhaust brakes for diesel pickups....pretty spiffy...just wonder how effective they are. I know they're a tad pricey..although...if I was running a hotshot service or something and had to get into mtns...my truck would have one reguardless if it was a stick or an auto.

Hmm....I would want to put a nice 5" exhaust on my truck and straight pipe it through, but I don't think Father would be too pleased...

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Hmm....I would want to put a nice 5" exhaust on my truck and straight pipe it through, but I don't think Father would be too pleased... LOL...I think I'm gonna keep mine down to a 4". I like the MBRP and the MagnaFlow 4" turbo-back. Sounds nice on the 6.0L Powerstroke.

4" MagnaFlow Turbo-back on 6.0L Powerstroke (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCqmspn1dRs)

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
LOL...I think I'm gonna keep mine down to a 4". I like the MBRP and the MagnaFlow 4" turbo-back. Sounds nice on the 6.0L Powerstroke.

4" MagnaFlow Turbo-back on 6.0L Powerstroke (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCqmspn1dRs)

Yeah, but Jeg's has a nice one for pretty cheap, go look for it, I can't find the link.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Yeah, but Jeg's has a nice one for pretty cheap, go look for it, I can't find the link. I ran across that one awhile back. My uncle owns an autoparts warehouse...I can get mine at cost and get it installed for free at my best friend's shop. ;)

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
I ran across that one awhile back. My uncle owns an autoparts warehouse...I can get mine at cost and get it installed for free at my best friend's shop. ;)

Could you hook a brotha up?

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Could you hook a brotha up? its possible...its possible....I'd have better luck hookin ya up w/ my buddy doing the install than getting the parts for ya at cost.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
its possible...its possible....I'd have better luck hookin ya up w/ my buddy doing the install than getting the parts for ya at cost.

I could swing the installation, it's the getting it that sucks...I looked at Magnaflow before a while back and it was about a grand for the system.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
I could swing the installation, it's the getting it that sucks...I looked at Magnaflow before a while back and it was about a grand for the system. WOW....i've found em for around 600 in a couple of spots. I'll look around and let ya know what I find. I'm gonna be "upgrading" my truck when I get home next year. Exhaust, chip/programmer, cold air intake.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
WOW....i've found em for around 600 in a couple of spots. I'll look around and let ya know what I find. I'm gonna be "upgrading" my truck when I get home next year. Exhaust, chip/programmer, cold air intake.

Well, I'm a college boy and I'd be paying for it on my own. The truck is paid for, and I'm content with it just the way it is for now.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
I ran across that one awhile back. My uncle owns an autoparts warehouse...I can get mine at cost and get it installed for free at my best friend's shop. ;)
Speaking of your best friend, I heard he got a nice little haul of good, experienced mechanics from the local Chevy dealership. :thinking:

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Speaking of your best friend, I heard he got a nice little haul of good, experienced mechanics from the local Chevy dealership. :thinking: oh yeah? do tell...I haven't heard anything from S. Texas in about a month.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
oh yeah? do tell...I haven't heard anything from S. Texas in about a month.
I know of at least one ooooold school mechanic... one of the best in the area... who left because of the new management. He's the only guy my dad trusts to work on our cars. Has a son my sister's age that you know pretty well.

I also know that most of the salesmen over there took off. Jesse Green, Lacho, etc. Might wanna ask Keefy about it.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I know of at least one ooooold school mechanic... one of the best in the area... who left because of the new management. He's the only guy my dad trusts to work on our cars. Has a son my sister's age that you know pretty well.

I also know that most of the salesmen over there took off. Jesse Green, Lacho, etc. Might wanna ask Keefy about it. gota chat, YOU can tell me about it :)