What if? (education question)

[big daddy russ]

If you lived in Germany and were planning on living there for the rest of your life, would you want your kid to learn proper English grammar or would it be OK if they just taught your kid proper German grammar and ignored the English?

The reason I ask is because I know someone who's going through a situation like this. Just wanted to see if my opinion was the same as most people or if it's off-base.

[Sweetwater Red]

I'm impressed by anyone that can speak multiple languages
fluently.

[Ranger Mom]

I have 2 nieces and nephew who live in Germany.

My oldest niece is 16 and is done with her schooling...there is not a lot of opportunities for her after school, except trade school.

She is coming BACK to the states, she wants to be an interpreter since she is fluent in both German and English.

That probably didn't answer your question, but thought I would throw that out there!!:D

[crzyjournalist03]

Are we to assume that the child is learning English as a second language, or is the question whether or not the kid should learn the English language?

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
Are we to assume that the child is learning English as a second language, or is the question whether or not the kid should learn the English language?
The child knows English because they get it at home, but they're not being taught the fundamentals of the language at school. They can speak it, but can't do anything else with it. No basic grammar skills, inability to spell words past a certain level, etc.

The phonics are apparently a little different in each language and the grammar is vastly different. The children are nine or ten years old and have no concept of the structure of the English language.

[crzyjournalist03]

well, in that case, if they're learning the language, then they should learn the grammar structure. I know that English is one of the hardest to learn, so maybe that's why they're not being taught, but I took three years of high school spanish and had 14 hours of college Spanish, and every class I took harped on grammar...it's basically a reversal of English grammar, but I definitely wanted to learn the structure if I was going to take the time to learn the language.

[luvhoops34]

The more languages you are fluent in the better. And who's to say they won't EVER come back to the US. You never know what life will throw your way. And if the opportunity is there for them to learn the mechanics of the English language, then they should.

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by luvhoops34
The more languages you are fluent in the better. And who's to say they won't EVER come back to the US. You never know what life will throw your way. And if the opportunity is there for them to learn the mechanics of the English language, then they should.

I agree!! My niece plans on moving back to Germany after she completes college in the States....she LOVES Germany!!!

[Bearkat]

Communication is important in all aspects of life. Learn both if possible.

[BobcatBenny]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
The child knows English because they get it at home, but they're not being taught the fundamentals of the language at school. They can speak it, but can't do anything else with it. No basic grammar skills, inability to spell words past a certain level, etc.

The phonics are apparently a little different in each language and the grammar is vastly different. The children are nine or ten years old and have no concept of the structure of the English language.
Oh, so she will fit in with everyone here in the U.S.? :D

[big daddy russ]

Thanks for all the input. My friend is actually the teacher, not the parent, the native language of the kids is actually Spanish, not English, and the language being forced upon the children is English, not German.

She's a bilingual teacher at a school on the Northwest side of Houston and has been wrestling with this issue. She's Hispanic and was raised in a Hispanic household, and bilingual education by definition is supposed to teach kids from Hispanic households how to function between both languages. Instead, this school is intent on "squashing out" Spanish in their district because "English is the primary language in college," according to one of the administrators.

She's basically been hired as an English teacher who just happens to speak Spanish. In my mind, that's always been English as a Second Language (ESL), a completely different program.

Personally, I'm against this in a big way. The district has an ESL program, and after looking over the policies of both the ESL and bilingual programs, I can't seem to find a difference between the two. Both programs are just trying to get the kids to speak English and then forcing them out of the program as quick as possible.

I think the school should be building on the language that these kids already know (it makes everything MUCH easier in the long run anyways) rather than forcing them to unlearn it and then starting from scratch.

But then again, that's just one man's opinion. I was thinking I may have been off-base on that one.

[mustang59]

I thought the goal of the ESL and bilingual classes was to help transition kids from another language to English. We have so many students who are born in the US but can't speak English when they start school. This really does limit them when they go to college, trade school or try to find a job. On the other hand, if they are bilingual it opens so many doors. They can take Spanish in school to learn the proper use of that language.

[zebrablue2]

Originally posted by Sweetwater Red
I'm impressed by anyone that can speak multiple languages
fluently.


agreed.

[IHStangFan]

it would depend. Does the child hold German citizenship and being raised as a German? Is the child in an American (english speaking) school..i.e. are you there because you are in the military? (as I couldn't figure any other reason someone would just up and move to Germany other than being stationed there.) The real question is why would any American born person up and move their family to Germany and expect them to stay there for their entire lives. Much more room to exceed and be successful in America. That's just my .02. Now...IF I was stationed in Germany and my child was of a young age, or I was to be stationed there for several years...by all means I would want my child to learn the local language and try to be in tune w/ the locals and culture.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by mustang59
I thought the goal of the ESL and bilingual classes was to help transition kids from another language to English. We have so many students who are born in the US but can't speak English when they start school. This really does limit them when they go to college, trade school or try to find a job. On the other hand, if they are bilingual it opens so many doors. They can take Spanish in school to learn the proper use of that language.
From what I understand, the goal of ESL is to transition to English by giving them Spanish support in their regular schoolwork. So a kid in ESL can go to, say six regular English classes a day and just have one ESL class. They can direct questions at the teacher, the teacher can go over whatever they don't understand in their native language, etc.

Bilingual education is a little different. These kids' entire class (or all of their classes if they go from one class to another) is taught by their bilingual teachers.

There are two different schools of thought for bilingual ed... additive and subtractive. The additive model (the way the program was originally designed), is supposed to build on what they already know to help them learn English. Most of those kids can barely write in Spanish, so they learn how to write in Spanish first (as it comes much quicker... less than a year on average) and use that as a basis for helping them write in English.

The subtractive model is what you're talking about. It was designed to simply get the kids into a program, make them learn English and only English, and get them out. A great idea in concept, but studies have found that it takes about the same amount of time to teach a kid English only as it does to teach both languages. (Though I haven't looked into the studies at all, I'm just going by what this teacher said.)

[mustang59]

You've brought up an interesting point. I'm going to check with our high school and see what kind of bilingual classes they have or if they're only ESL.