New UIL Football Playoff System

[Milk That Cow]

I don't know if I'm gonna like this re-alignment or not...

But, I'm leaning to not liking it...

http://news.victoriaadvocate.com/columnists/mike_forman/story/107003.html (http://) [URL]

UIL FOOTBALL CHANGES LIKELY COMING FOR 2008

Bob Gillis insists he has no inside knowledge. But as the president-elect of the Texas High School Coaches Association the El Campo athletic director and head football coach has a good idea of what's going on in athletics around the state.

So when Gillis says, "I think it's coming," you can probably assume the University Interscholastic League is getting ready to introduce a new playoff system for high school football in Texas.

Word of what the UIL is considering leaked out last spring but it was at the coaches association's recent coaching school in Fort Worth that the UIL seemed to be applying what could best be described as a full-court press for the playoff proposal.

Charles Breithaupt, the UIL's athletic director, brought up the proposal without prompting at the UIL's annual coaching school press conference and the UIL hosted a presentation for the coaches, displaying possible districts based on the UIL's previous realignment and reclassification.

Breithaupt said similar playoff proposals have been studied in the past and the format is already in place for six-man teams. The current proposal began to take shape after the UIL's reclassification and realignment was released for the 2006-07 school years. Wylie, which is one of the smallest Class 5A schools in the state, complained about being placed in a district with Allen and the Plano schools, who are among the largest schools in the state.

Breithaupt said the UIL began looking for ways to reduce the disparity in enrollment without adding too much travel. The current proposal, which has caused quite of bit of confusion among coaches and fans, was the result.

The UIL's proposal, which is only for football, would reshape the current district alignments. Schools would be aligned by their enrollment. The schools with the largest enrollment would be divided into 16 Division I districts in each classification. The schools with the smallest enrollment would be divided into 16 Division II districts.

Unlike the present playoff format, which classifies teams as Division I or Division II after the playoff representatives are determined, teams would know before the season whether they would compete in Division I or Division II.

Four schools from each Class 5A district currently advance to the playoffs so the first- and fourth-place finishers and second- and third-place finishers would still meet in the bi-district round of their respective divisions.

The same district alignment would be followed for schools in Class 4A and smaller classifications but since three schools in these classifications advance to the postseason, the district champion would earn a first-round bye as it currently does in sports other than football, and the second- and third-place teams would meet in the bi-district round of their respective divisions.

Coaches seem to be split on the idea of a first-round bye for the district champion. Those in favor say it puts meaning back into a district championship and gives a team an extra week to heal injuries. Those opposed are worried about what a week off would do to a team's momentum.

The proposal is certain to create different districts for football and other sports. For instance, El Campo and Bay City currently compete in District 24-4A against the Rosenberg-Richmond schools and Katy Seven Lakes. Under the proposal, Gillis said El Campo and Bay City would likely be in a Division II football district. The Rosenberg-Richmond schools and Seven Lakes would likely be Division I schools.

The playoff proposal's affect on travel remains a concern even though Breithaupt said during his press conference, "It's not a bad as you think it is."

Coaches polled on the playoff proposal at coaching school were evenly split and Gillis believes the more coaches learn about the format the better they will like it.

"We talk about squeezing that gap and this seems to be the fairest way to do it," said Gillis, who was front and center for the UIL's coaching school presentation. "Just looking at the concept, it's the most equitable I've seen."

The Legislative Council of the UIL is expected to vote on the playoff proposal when it meets in October. If the proposal wins the council's approval, it would be implemented for the 2008 season. The biggest reaction - positive and negative - will come when the district alignments are released by the UIL in late January or early February.

"With every coach it's going to come down to how does it affect your school," Gillis said. "It's all about who you play and who you don't."

[setxsports]

Sounds like there're going to do it.

[VWG]

Wonder where the cutoffs would be.

[LH Panther Mom]

I have submitted my methods for determining the P.O.O.H. rankings to the UIL. The latest out of Austin is that they are very interested and strongly considering for the next realignment, since it seems to be the most fair and unbiased system in the state.







That reminds me..... :devil:

[pooch]

sounds like it to me too, that it's going to happen....and travel? some of these teams are traveling far now just to compete (ex: Rockwall @ Midland) or they'll travel and meet somewhere in the middle (ex: RObinson and Celina at Pennington Field in Bedford)

[wookinpanub]

This is exactly what happens when you destroy a system that had absolutely nothing wrong with it from that was created in 1982 with two teams advancing.

Let's give everyone a state trophy.

[burnet44]

Its all about money
the MONEY the UIL can make

[Hornet's Nest]

There's a big discrepancy in the enrollment numbers in each classification. Maybe it's time to narrow those numbers in each classification and add a 6A.

[worldbfree]

I love people who say it is all about the UIL making money. CLUELESS!

They don't make 6A because the travel involved for those schools would be absolutely absurd due to the distances between the schools that would actually make up a 6A conference. Also, these large discrepancies really only affect football.

This playoff system would be the most fair way of doing things under our current two state champion system. For my money, we should go back to one state champion per classification but that will never happen.

How else do you rectify the fact that the big school 5A state champion actually had a lower enrollment than the small school 5A state champion?

[Phil C]

Originally posted by burnet44
Its all about money
the MONEY the UIL can make

I agree burnet. We are fast going to be like California where a state championship doesn't mean much and on the whole is watered down. And just wait till the private schools start competing in all classifications.

[JasperDog94]

There's an easier way to do this.

Leave the classifications the way they are now. Take the teams that make the playoffs out of each district and THEN take the top enrollment teams and put them in a playoff bracket. That would keep travel times to a minimum in district.

This way you are guaranteed to have a big school (Div. I) and a small school (Div. II) champion.

[worldbfree]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by burnet44
Its all about money
the MONEY the UIL can make
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I agree burnet. We are fast going to be like California where a state championship doesn't mean much and on the whole is watered down. And just wait till the private schools start competing in all classifications.



Seriously???

Private schools will never compete in UIL because they don't want to follow the same rules. This is about money but it is about school district expenditures and what is realistic for the school districts to spend.

Ask anyone.........the number one issue when the UIL makes decisions regarding alignment and changes is TRAVEL BUDGETS!!!!

[worldbfree]

Jasper94,

The only flaw with your idea is that schools will still be forced to qualify for the playoffs by competing within district competition against schools twice their size.

Ex:

Kirbyville vs. Jasper shouldn't determine a playoff spot (according to enrollment)

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by worldbfree
Jasper94,

The only flaw with your idea is that schools will still be forced to qualify for the playoffs by competing within district competition against schools twice their size.

Ex:

Kirbyville vs. Jasper shouldn't determine a playoff spot (according to enrollment) That's still better than creating 10 divisions. Don't forget, there are 3 playoff spots from each district, so Jasper vs. Kirbyville alone wouldn't determine a playoff spot.

But I do see your point.

[3afan]

i did some research a few years back on the UIL budget with respect to all activities - not just athletics ... all the info is available on the UIL web site but you'll have to look

football is really their only moneymaker, and that goes for most ISDs too. they MUST make money on football to fund all the non-revenue producing activities, including those that support football (band, drill, etc.).

whats so wrong with using the best possible means to raise $ - FOOTBALL - and doing just that? If the UIL & ISDs didn't then all the other programs - not just athletics - would be cut left and right.

[worldbfree]

Jasper 94,

10 divisions??

I am not sure I understand??

The new system would just create new football districts according to enrollment. These districts would be only for football. Basically you could look for half of your district to stay the same.

You guys might see something like:

Jasper
WOS
Silsbee
BC
Cleveland
Splendora or Shepherd (I can't remeber which one is the larger school)

your basketball, track, baseball, etc. districts would remain the same.

[burnet44]

remember the schools have the burden of complying
think about it
does the UIL pay for travel, officials, insurance, ect
no the schools do
and the UIL gets their 15%
the schools get the cost the UIL gets their cut
look at the state meet
the schools pay transportation, hotels, tickets, parking ect
the UIL charges - try to get in on your coaches pass lol

Its all about the money the UIL can make
within reasonable guidelines for schools
the schools pay for it not the UIL

to think the UIL thinks about the districts and the costs to the schools is knowing the whole picture

Yeah I do know
Ive done a ton of wotk for the UIL over the years

there is no 6A because its not feasiable yet because of the locations of schools and population density
50% of texans live along I-35 BTW


but instead of making a new class the UIL
can create divisions which basically do the same thing
more teams, more playoff games more money

and its about money

[charlesrixey]

I'm confused

with only three teams advancing in 4A and down, would there still be two brackets?

how would this change what we have now?

the only way i can see a bye week making sense is if there is only one bracket with 96 teams, like the basketball playoffs

i thought they weren't going to move to a 17 game season (although i would like that)

can somebody please explain it a little more effectively than breithaupt?

[worldbfree]

look at the state meet
the schools pay transportation, hotels, tickets, parking ect
the UIL charges - try to get in on your coaches pass lol



Yes the schools have to pay for those things and then they get a percentage of the gate from the state meets. More often than not, that percentage pays for the trip to the state tournament.

I can assure you that I am equally knowledgeable in how the UIL works.

[worldbfree]

Why would a coaching pass get you into a state meet?

Those associations are independent of the UIL. Then you would have every jughead in Texas getting into the state meet and not equal opportunity to get in.

The UIL has never claimed to be a non-profit organization. They must make money to pay salaries, expenses, etc.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by worldbfree
Jasper 94,

10 divisions??

I am not sure I understand??

The new system would just create new football districts according to enrollment. These districts would be only for football. Basically you could look for half of your district to stay the same.

You guys might see something like:

Jasper
WOS
Silsbee
BC
Cleveland
Splendora or Shepherd (I can't remeber which one is the larger school)

your basketball, track, baseball, etc. districts would remain the same. Instead of a Div. I and Div. II in 3A, you would have two completely different divisions from the start of the season...in essence 2 more classifications based on enrollment. 5 current classifications times 2 equals 10. How would that work for West Texas schools where they already have huge travel times?

In most cases, this would increase travel times and cost much more money.

If you leave it the way it is (3 teams from each district make the playoffs), then take the top 32 teams based on enrollment (Div. I) and the other 64 teams (Div. II) and put them in a playoff bracket....bingo. A playoff system based on enrollment.

[3afan]

plus as stated above - they need $s to fund the non-revenue producing events, which most of the other sports & academic & music competitions are

[worldbfree]

Jasper 94,

You may be confused on how you are reading it.

Absolutely nothing about the current set-up would change except who you are districted with. There would still be 1A-5A with Div. I an Div. II.

The only thing they are doing is re-districting based on enrollment for football. Regions stay the same as does everything else. That is why I gave the example district for you guys. It would basically be a combination of Jasper's districts over the last 4 years.

[Texasfootball2]

Originally posted by worldbfree
Jasper 94,

You may be confused on how you are reading it.

Absolutely nothing about the current set-up would change except who you are districted with. There would still be 1A-5A with Div. I an Div. II.

The only thing they are doing is re-districting based on enrollment for football. Regions stay the same as does everything else. That is why I gave the example district for you guys. It would basically be a combination of Jasper's districts over the last 4 years.

There is a whole lot more to be considered. Take 3A for instance, under the new proposal a team like Abilene Wylie would either go east and be in a District with Decatur, Gainsville, Burkburnett, WF Hirshi, and Frisco Wakeland. OR, go west and be in a district with Canyon, Borger, Levelland, Andrews, Seminole, and Fort Stockton.

The matchups would be exciting but the travel would be unmerciful, especially if they kept the same districts for Basketball and everything else. These are long trips to make for District games and kids would be pulled out of school very early to leave including the band and pep squads, ect.... not to much to added expense on the school budgets.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by worldbfree
Jasper 94,

You may be confused on how you are reading it.

Absolutely nothing about the current set-up would change except who you are districted with. There would still be 1A-5A with Div. I an Div. II.

The only thing they are doing is re-districting based on enrollment for football. Regions stay the same as does everything else. That is why I gave the example district for you guys. It would basically be a combination of Jasper's districts over the last 4 years. It still doesn't address the huge burden that will be put on school districts for travel. My idea may not level the playing field as much as this idea, but it makes it much better than it is now without the added expense of extra travel.

Plus, with the UIL's idea, you would still have the disparity once the playoffs began. A District in Region 1 might have smaller schools in the Div. I bracket than small schools in Div. II from another region.

Bottom line is this: If you wait until the playoffs start to decide who is Div. I and Div. II, then you are guaranteed to have a big school champion and a small school champion.

[Texasfootball2]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
It still doesn't address the huge burden that will be put on school districts for travel. My idea may not level the playing field as much as this idea, but it makes it much better than it is now without the added expense of extra travel.

Plus, with the UIL's idea, you would still have the disparity once the playoffs began. A District in Region 1 might have smaller schools in the Div. I bracket than small schools in Div. II from another region.

Bottom line is this: If you wait until the playoffs start to decide who is Div. I and Div. II, then you are guaranteed to have a big school champion and a small school champion.

Exactly, Every team on my list with maybe one exception is already in region one, and every team on that list is one of the top two enrollments in their districts so a team like Wylie would have to go one direction or the other, because there is no place in between for 3A. How can you say it won't increase travel?

[burnet44]

Originally posted by worldbfree
look at the state meet
the schools pay transportation, hotels, tickets, parking ect
the UIL charges - try to get in on your coaches pass lol



Yes the schools have to pay for those things and then they get a percentage of the gate from the state meets. More often than not, that percentage pays for the trip to the state tournament.

I can assure you that I am equally knowledgeable in how the UIL works.

the UIL GIVES money back to the schools?
and that pays for that?

Guess Im not as knowledgeable as you
Never heard that

[Franklin's Towe]

I agree that two champions per classification system is broken. For the first few years of the two champions experiment in 3A, the Division I was by far the weaker division. In a sense, the bigger schools were getting the easier route to the title.

I still think the only "fair" solution, if schools continue to whine about ADM's, is to create a 6A classification for the urban/suburban communities and adjust the cut-offs accordingly. In a sense, 4A would become 5A (with the Wylie's, Dallas Carter's and John Tyler's of the world hanging back), 3A would become 4A, and so-on and so forth. Many of the competitive 6A schools would be schools with pockets deep enough to fund the extra travel expenses.

Personally, I would like to see a lot of the larger 2A programs move back up. Realignment killed a lot of great rivalries in East Texas (e.g. Atlanta vs. Daingerfield).

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by Texasfootball2
There is a whole lot more to be considered. Take 3A for instance, under the new proposal a team like Abilene Wylie would either go east and be in a District with Decatur, Gainsville, Burkburnett, WF Hirshi, and Frisco Wakeland. OR, go west and be in a district with Canyon, Borger, Levelland, Andrews, Seminole, and Fort Stockton.

The matchups would be exciting but the travel would be unmerciful, especially if they kept the same districts for Basketball and everything else. These are long trips to make for District games and kids would be pulled out of school very early to leave including the band and pep squads, ect.... not to much to added expense on the school budgets.

Yes but Abilene is stuck that way no matter what. Compare apples and apples. Most districts would get pretty much what they have but the smaller schools would have a much better chance to advance overall. It does not affect Celina. We advance even tho we have 430. But there are schools in our district that would have a better chance to compete against other schools their size. Our district is not bad by spread overall but we were in Gainesvilles district in 02 and 03. Any of you guys think it's fair for a school with 347 to compete with a school of over 800?

Those types of overmatches affect even the good small school programs because of injuries and depth issues. When competing similar size schools with similar size depth it becomes much more fair. YOu are not changing the number of districts or playoff divisions. You are setting up a small school 3a and a large school 3a up front instead of allowing Gainesville to come over and romp on someone like Nevada Community.

[AggiesAreWe]

Originally posted by worldbfree
Jasper 94,

10 divisions??

I am not sure I understand??

The new system would just create new football districts according to enrollment. These districts would be only for football. Basically you could look for half of your district to stay the same.

You guys might see something like:

Jasper
WOS
Silsbee
BC
Cleveland
Splendora or Shepherd (I can't remeber which one is the larger school)

your basketball, track, baseball, etc. districts would remain the same.


Actually, based on enrollments and geography, this is what the two southeast Texas 3A districts would look like:

Kirbyville 435.5
Orangefield 473
Shepherd 508.5
Coldspring 573
Hamshire-Fannett 581
Tarkington 587
Liberty 672



Hardin-Jefferson 706
Bridge City 754.5
WOS 775
Cleveland 809
Jasper 819
Silsbee 827
Splendora 863

Clay, looks like you guys would still be stuck with the big boys. lol

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
Yes but Abilene is stuck that way no matter what. Compare apples and apples. Most districts would get pretty much what they have but the smaller schools would have a much better chance to advance overall. It does not affect Celina. We advance even tho we have 430. But there are schools in our district that would have a better chance to compete against other schools their size. Our district is not bad by spread overall but we were in Gainesvilles district in 02 and 03. Any of you guys think it's fair for a school with 347 to compete with a school of over 800?

Those types of overmatches affect even the good small school programs because of injuries and depth issues. When competing similar size schools with similar size depth it becomes much more fair. YOu are not changing the number of districts or playoff divisions. You are setting up a small school 3a and a large school 3a up front instead of allowing Gainesville to come over and romp on someone like Nevada Community.

Another way to look at this would be to just have 10 divisions.
1a thru 10a. It would amount to the same thing. The 6 man division has been using this format already. The real problem is that in texas everybody plays and we have schools from 50 to 6000. Tough to make it fair for everybody no matter what you do.
I believe that the new set up is the fairest overall although some will have travel issues it won't be that much worse than it already is. And it will allow more of the smaller schools a shot at some of that money to support their other programs. To me that is worth it all by itself. We will see some names deeper in the playoffs and get schools recongition that they deserve.

[g$$]

Originally posted by worldbfree
quote:

Private schools will never compete in UIL because they don't want to follow the same rules. This is about money but it is about school district expenditures and what is realistic for the school districts to spend.



5A Houston Strake Jesuit (private) joined the UIL (for football only I believe) 2 years ago. Lots of people against it, but they got in.

[sic'em]

billy fred has it right. we have been arguing for a "6A" but basically what they are doing is that plus some. it would really be 1a-10a. i am for it because you are already giving out 9 state titles for those classes, why not give out 10 to 10 distinct divisions from the get go. everyone down in 6 man liked it this year, i think after its done once most will like it in the higher classes too. the current system IMO is the most asinine that they have ever had. the proposal would REALLY help classes like 5a and 3a who have such big dispersions. as was said earlier, no more community vs. gainesville type of district games. the only people that have a right to gripe about travel are in west texas and most of them are going to travel a lot no matter what the districts look like. they will prob keep the districts small there like they are now anyways.

[burnet44]

"Follow the money" Deep Throat
All the Presidents Men

[worldbfree]

1. I have said all along that travel is the #1 issue when it comes to any realignment plan and that, if anything, is what will keep this plan from coming together.

2. Remember, they will take the entire state and there would be new districts and possibly new regions for football teams ONLY. This would not affect ANY OTHER sports. Therefore, they would set it up to where the largest DII school would have a smaller enrollment than the smallest DI school.

3. Burnett44, yes the UIL gives money back to the schools that participate in the state meets. Some schools will make money off the state meets. I know this past year in basketball we spent $17 K+ and got back around $13 or $14K from the UIL. However, our school district did it extremely first class and knew going in they may end up in the red a little but that it was worth it for the experience for the kids.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by AggiesAreWe
Actually, based on enrollments and geography, this is what the two southeast Texas 3A districts would look like:

Kirbyville 435.5
Orangefield 473
Shepherd 508.5
Coldspring 573
Hamshire-Fannett 581
Tarkington 587
Liberty 672



Hardin-Jefferson 706
Bridge City 754.5
WOS 775
Cleveland 809
Jasper 819
Silsbee 827
Splendora 863

Clay, looks like you guys would still be stuck with the big boys. lol One more 3A school has been added to this area. Kingwood Park. They split Kingwood High School and the new school only has 3a numbers. They might send that team west, but then again they may send it north. We'll see.

[Texasfootball2]

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
Another way to look at this would be to just have 10 divisions.
1a thru 10a. It would amount to the same thing. The 6 man division has been using this format already. The real problem is that in texas everybody plays and we have schools from 50 to 6000. Tough to make it fair for everybody no matter what you do.
I believe that the new set up is the fairest overall although some will have travel issues it won't be that much worse than it already is. And it will allow more of the smaller schools a shot at some of that money to support their other programs. To me that is worth it all by itself. We will see some names deeper in the playoffs and get schools recongition that they deserve.

These are all very good points, as long as they only do it for football. Until you have been affected by the travel problems you might not fully understand. Example, My son plays soccer at Ab. Wylie and since there is no 3A soccer we play in a 4A district that includes Killeen, Coppers Cove, Lampasas, San Angelo Lakeview, Stephenville, and Brownwood. We were out of town every Tuesday night. The bus would not make it home until about 1:30 or 2:00 in the morning on a school night.

I understand that football is played on Fridays so it is not as much of a problem getting home late, but unlike soccer were only about 18 students have to get out of class at lunch to make the trip, football games are totally different. Football team, trainers, band, pep squads, ect...about 200 students are going to be checking out of school on Fridays to make these 3 1/2 hour trips, not to mention the parents who will be checking their kids out who don't play football just to go watch the game as a fan. At least 200 or more students would be gone after half of a school day.

Back to my original statement though before I got on my soap box. I think it is a good idea, and I'm all for evening the playing field, as long as they only do it in football and not any other sports.

[worldbfree]

about 200 students are going to be checking out of school on Fridays to make these 3 1/2 hour trips,


I don't mean this ugly but why on earth does anyone but players and coaches and trainers need to leave school after lunch for a 3 1/2 hour trip to a 7:30 game? Another plausible solution that has been thrown out is to move games back to an 8 PM start time since it is on Friday night.

Cheerleaders, band, etc. wouldn't need to leave until 3 PM to make a 3 1/2 trip for a 7:30 game.

[Texasfootball2]

Originally posted by worldbfree
about 200 students are going to be checking out of school on Fridays to make these 3 1/2 hour trips,


I don't mean this ugly but why on earth does anyone but players and coaches and trainers need to leave school after lunch for a 3 1/2 hour trip to a 7:30 game? Another plausible solution that has been thrown out is to move games back to an 8 PM start time since it is on Friday night.

Cheerleaders, band, etc. wouldn't need to leave until 3 PM to make a 3 1/2 trip for a 7:30 game.

Yes, In order for the band and other squads to get their by 6:30 they will have to leave around 2:00. Because they will leave as soon as the game is over to try to get home at a decent hour they usually have to allow some time to eat before the game, but it sounds like you're an expert on taking these long trips so I'm sure you have a great solution.

And I am for the 8:00 start time.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by worldbfree
about 200 students are going to be checking out of school on Fridays to make these 3 1/2 hour trips,


I don't mean this ugly but why on earth does anyone but players and coaches and trainers need to leave school after lunch for a 3 1/2 hour trip to a 7:30 game? Another plausible solution that has been thrown out is to move games back to an 8 PM start time since it is on Friday night.

Cheerleaders, band, etc. wouldn't need to leave until 3 PM to make a 3 1/2 trip for a 7:30 game. Are you taking into account that the kids need to eat? What about load time with that many kids and that much equipment? What about the time to get dressed and get instruments out, pack the cases back up, get in line, get into the stadium, all in time for the school song and national anthem? If students aren't dismissed until 3:00, then you also are probably dealing with normal afternoon bus schedules, parents picking up kids and that's going to cause further delays.

There's more to it than most people realize. Trust me, I've been there.

[worldbfree]

never claimed to be an expert but do have quite a bit of experience.

I know most school cafeteria's will make sack lunches for participants on road trips (at a cost to the athletic dept.) That would be the solution for having to eat. Plus, my experiences say that cheerleaders, band members, etc. have opportunities to go to the concession stands at some point during the games. Leaving at 3 PM for a 7:30 game still gives them a 1 hour window for any unforeseen events.

[worldbfree]

Are you taking into account that the kids need to eat? What about load time with that many kids and that much equipment? What about the time to get dressed and get instruments out, pack the cases back up, get in line, get into the stadium, all in time for the school song and national anthem? If students aren't dismissed until 3:00, then you also are probably dealing with normal afternoon bus schedules, parents picking up kids and that's going to cause further delays.

There's more to it than most people realize. Trust me, I've been there.



been there and seen it too..............much of that stuff can be handled before school............during the band period on game day..........or by the band directors themselves as they have a conference period on those days as well. they could be dismissed at 2:30 and leave by 3 with no problem if time is used efficiently.

let's remember that we are not talking about a 3 1/2 hour road trip every Friday. More than likely, you have 5 road games per year in the regular season and how many of those 5 are at that length?

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by worldbfree
never claimed to be an expert but do have quite a bit of experience.

I know most school cafeteria's will make sack lunches for participants on road trips (at a cost to the athletic dept.) That would be the solution for having to eat. Plus, my experiences say that cheerleaders, band members, etc. have opportunities to go to the concession stands at some point during the games. Leaving at 3 PM for a 7:30 game still gives them a 1 hour window for any unforeseen events. What about traffic? What about the fact that once you get there it takes at least 30 minutes to get into the stands? If you dismiss at 3:00, then you will be on the road by 3:30 (at best due to loading the instruments and uniforms) and get there at 7:00 (at best barring any bad traffic...good luck with that around any metroplex), that still puts you in the stadium at 7:30 (at best). That's after the school song and after the team is already on the field.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by worldbfree
been there and seen it too..............much of that stuff can be handled before school............during the band period on game day..........or by the band directors themselves as they have a conference period on those days as well. they could be dismissed at 2:30 and leave by 3 with no problem if time is used efficiently.

let's remember that we are not talking about a 3 1/2 hour road trip every Friday. More than likely, you have 5 road games per year in the regular season and how many of those 5 are at that length? You are correct that most of the trips are not that length. But the larger the districts become, the more of a problem it will be.

Bottom line for me is this: You can't plan it down to the minute. You must allow time for the unexpected. Shorter trips don't have as many variables as the longer trips.

[worldbfree]

Believe me, I know you can't plan it down to the minute. Even if you do have to release quite a few students at 1:30 or 2 PM it is at most 3 or 4 times the entire season.

[gtownfan]

Don't foget that a lot of schools use the buses that take all these cheerleaders, band, football players etc. to the game for the normal bus routes also!

In Giddings for this past weeks Game against Wimberley, school closed at 1 so that the buses could run their routes (some take 2 hours) and then be available for travel to the games.

[burnet44]

Originally posted by JasperDog94


There's more to it than most people realize. Trust me, I've been there.

true that
until you do it
you really dont know

I like to be at a away game at 5:30 for a 7:30 game
unpack. tape, dress, meeting, set up head phones, film, field equipment, sideline equipment, balls, meet with officials, coin toss in some cases, ect
speciality out at 6:35
2nd group out at 6:50
team stretch
indy offense
team O
team D
pat
punt
in at 7:15
pee-speech-pray
school song 7:20
run through sign 7:22
coin toss 7:25
national anthem 7:28
ko 7:30

this is pretty standard
but there is some difference in some places

again I like to be there at 5:30
homecomming 5:00 or before
because you will warm up at a different time depending on how the home team does HC

[Texasfootball2]

Originally posted by worldbfree
Believe me, I know you can't plan it down to the minute. Even if you do have to release quite a few students at 1:30 or 2 PM it is at most 3 or 4 times the entire season.

True, and I'm still all for it. Even if it's only 5 or 6 times a year. Does anybody no if this proposal is just for football or are they talking about all sports, because that is a whole different animal.

[burnet44]

football
it makes money

[worldbfree]

It would be only for football. Because of the increased travel it would cause football would be able to do it because it is on Friday nights.

Also, numbers don't affect other sports like they do football.

[duckpluck]

I had a chance to interview Breithaupt 2 weeks ago and he indicated they would probably not go to this new playoff system this time around.
Take that for whats it worth.

[duckpluck]

For a great insight on how the UIL conducts realignment go to
http://www.kmacsports.com/HSSZ.shtml
Click on the Aug 15 show.
Charles Breithaupt, the UIL's athletic director, is interviewed and desribes how this is done.
Very interesting.
He also said off air that there would not be districts below 6 teams.

[g$$]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by worldbfree
quote:

Private schools will never compete in UIL because they don't want to follow the same rules. This is about money but it is about school district expenditures and what is realistic for the school districts to spend.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



5A Houston Strake Jesuit (private) joined the UIL (for football only I believe) 2 years ago. Lots of people against it, but they got in.

Right? Never got response yay or nay...

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by g$$
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by worldbfree
quote:

Private schools will never compete in UIL because they don't want to follow the same rules. This is about money but it is about school district expenditures and what is realistic for the school districts to spend.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



5A Houston Strake Jesuit (private) joined the UIL (for football only I believe) 2 years ago. Lots of people against it, but they got in.

Right? Never got response yay or nay...
From what I understand, the Jesuit school(s) (doesn't Dallas compete too?) agreed to follow UIL rules they were presented for competition. Cornerstone in SA tried suing the UIL and got a sponsor to bring a bill to the State Congress, which would force the UIL to allow privates to compete if desired. I'll have to research to get the final result, but just on memory, I believe the bill stalled without being voted on the past session.

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by Texasfootball2
These are all very good points, as long as they only do it for football. Until you have been affected by the travel problems you might not fully understand. Example, My son plays soccer at Ab. Wylie and since there is no 3A soccer we play in a 4A district that includes Killeen, Coppers Cove, Lampasas, San Angelo Lakeview, Stephenville, and Brownwood. We were out of town every Tuesday night. The bus would not make it home until about 1:30 or 2:00 in the morning on a school night.

I understand that football is played on Fridays so it is not as much of a problem getting home late, but unlike soccer were only about 18 students have to get out of class at lunch to make the trip, football games are totally different. Football team, trainers, band, pep squads, ect...about 200 students are going to be checking out of school on Fridays to make these 3 1/2 hour trips, not to mention the parents who will be checking their kids out who don't play football just to go watch the game as a fan. At least 200 or more students would be gone after half of a school day.

Back to my original statement though before I got on my soap box. I think it is a good idea, and I'm all for evening the playing field, as long as they only do it in football and not any other sports.

I grew up 1a west texas at Bronte High. Our district included Jayton and Forsan both 2 to 3 hour bus rides. West Texas is just spread out and there is not much going to change that.

[burnet44]

when did you get out of Bronte?
I called many games there when I was in college
I knew the BB coach and his family very well

circa 1974-1978

Coach Raughton was his name
had kids
Jean Ann, Jim Dan, Janie

nickname was Stick Raughton

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by burnet44
when did you get out of Bronte?
I called many games there when I was in college
I knew the BB coach and his family very well

circa 1974-1978

Coach Raughton was his name
had kids
Jean Ann, Jim Dan, Janie

nickname was Stick Raughton
I played varsity bball for stick. They lived one block over from me.
78 was when I graduated. Janie was closest to me in age and she was the prettiest too. JD was a heck of an athelete. Good guys. I hated it when he left. The new coach and I did not get along. I played for stick off and on from pee wee and up. He was a good guy. His wife taught me in fourth grade. I was one of those kids there born there moved away and came back in first grade. The Raughtons were there for most of that time.

[worldbfree]

Yes.........those private schools participate in UIL competition but they had to agree to compete at the 5A level regardless of their enrollment and they agreed to follow UIL rules.

[burnet44]

Jean Ann is at Wylie?
JD was at Midland?
IDK where Janie is

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by worldbfree
Yes.........those private schools participate in UIL competition but they had to agree to compete at the 5A level regardless of their enrollment and they agreed to follow UIL rules. How do they follow UIL rules when they are allowed to give "scholarships" to whomever they please? How in the world can you say that's not recruiting?:confused:

[3afan]

trust them - they are christian schools - they would never cheat

[worldbfree]

I believe they countered that ability by forcing them to play at the 5A level despite enrollments of less than 500 students.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by 3afan
trust them - they are christian schools - they would never cheat uh huh....because we all know that Christians are perfect....right?