Question on Titans/Vince Young/Jeff Fisher...

[g$$]

This is NOT a Texas vs. Texas A&M question. Anyone who has read my opinions knows that I think highly of VY as a leader & winner. Vince showed poor judgement over the weekend when he chose to stay at his house instead of the team hotel the night before the 1st preseason game vs. Washington (common practice in college too, home & away). He violated a team rule & thus head coach Jeff Fisher sat him out of the game Sat. night. VY has acknowledged his mistake. That is old news, so here is my question:

Would Jeff Fisher have done the same for a regular season game?

My answer is NO. Can you imagine Fisher explaining to owner Bud Adams that one? "Mr. Adams, Vince is not playing today because of his sleeping arrangements last night." Way too much money on the line & playoff berths pending. Plus it was a home game & fan outrage if they could not watch VY in person during the regular season. I think that was a message sent because it is preseason, where normally it would have been a stiff fine handled internally.

What do y'all think?

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by g$$
This is NOT a Texas vs. Texas A&M question. Anyone who has read my opinions knows that I think highly of VY as a leader & winner. Vince showed poor judgement over the weekend when he chose to stay at his house instead of the team hotel the night before the 1st preseason game vs. Washington (common practice in college too, home & away). He violated a team rule & thus head coach Jeff Fisher sat him out of the game Sat. night. VY has acknowledged his mistake. That is old news, so here is my question:

Would Jeff Fisher have done the same for a regular season game?

My answer is NO. Can you imagine Fisher explaining to owner Bud Adams that one? "Mr. Adams, Vince is not playing today because of his sleeping arrangements last night." Way too much money on the line & playoff berths pending. Plus it was a home game & fan outrage if they could not watch VY in person during the regular season. I think that was a message sent because it is preseason, where normally it would have been a stiff fine handled internally.

What do y'all think?


I think to lead effectively it should be by example. I am disappointed, and hope it does not happen again. If it does I will write him off as just another could have been....

[sectionCwannabe]

well its a world of money so in reg. season he would let him play, but i am sure he would be fined. and multiple offenses give a stiffer fine.

On another note this isnt very smart of VY, i mean he does have an O-Line that protects him, dont know how they would feel about it. I would feel like our leader thinks he is too good to stay with the team.....Big defensive linemen unblocked, tend to dish out some pain.

[Gsquared]

Originally posted by g$$
This is NOT a Texas vs. Texas A&M question. Anyone who has read my opinions knows that I think highly of VY as a leader & winner. Vince showed poor judgement over the weekend when he chose to stay at his house instead of the team hotel the night before the 1st preseason game vs. Washington (common practice in college too, home & away). He violated a team rule & thus head coach Jeff Fisher sat him out of the game Sat. night. VY has acknowledged his mistake. That is old news, so here is my question:

Would Jeff Fisher have done the same for a regular season game?

My answer is NO. Can you imagine Fisher explaining to owner Bud Adams that one? "Mr. Adams, Vince is not playing today because of his sleeping arrangements last night." Way too much money on the line & playoff berths pending. Plus it was a home game & fan outrage if they could not watch VY in person during the regular season. I think that was a message sent because it is preseason, where normally it would have been a stiff fine handled internally.

What do y'all think?
I think the media has too much time on thier hands. I could care less about any athelete getting supspended for petty stuff.

[burnet44]

Fisher does it no matter what
and VY is probably with the team during the reg season
he knows its a pre season game too

still stupid

THE GUY NEEDS ALL THE SNAPS HE CAN GET

why would you do anything except that
unless your dumb

Im starting to wonder if the wonderlick (sp for the grammir Nazi's post count) was pretty accurate

He better play every play he can
or
The Titians will go the way of the falcons
not with the dog fighting
but sinking all your team into ONE guy
and then he screws everyone

Atlanta will take 10 or more years to recover from Vick
if they ever do
aint like they have been real good
1 SB game that wasnt a game

[Txbroadcaster]

Anyone remember when Irvin missed the flight to Detroit in 93? Johnson used that chance to "discipline" him...Comes out few years later that it might have been arranged between Johnson and Irvin because JJ thought the team was getting lax and needed a jolt...problem was Dallas first posession was so bad JJ put him in

Rumors are and they are just rumors..That this might have been an arranged deal

[g$$]

Originally posted by burnet44
Fisher does it no matter what
and VY is probably with the team during the reg season
he knows its a pre season game too

still stupid

THE GUY NEEDS ALL THE SNAPS HE CAN GET

why would you do anything except that
unless your dumb

Im starting to wonder if the wonderlick (sp for the grammir Nazi's post count) was pretty accurate

He better play every play he can
or
The Titians will go the way of the falcons
not with the dog fighting
but sinking all your team into ONE guy
and then he screws everyone

Atlanta will take 10 or more years to recover from Vick
if they ever do
aint like they have been real good
1 SB game that wasnt a game

I think you value Michael Vick far more than I do. Yes, he is a great athlete playing qb but to me not a great qb. Makes highlight reel plays but has a lot of negative plays too. I think Atlanta recovers in a couple of years after they draft a true qb to play in Bobby Petrino's system (maybe Louisville's Jeff Brohm in 2008?). I don't think Vick plays again in Atlanta for that owner who values PR & doing things right.

(Vick has won 1 playoff game in his career too, at Green Bay years ago, right?)

[burnet44]

a WR is not as important as your QB
staged or not
I dont think Irvin needed the snaps VY does

It hurts everyone
I dont think this is too set up by Fish or VY

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by burnet44
a WR is not as important as your QB
staged or not
I dont think Irvin needed the snaps VY does

It hurts everyone
I dont think this is too set up by Fish or VY


Your acting like he would have played a whole quarter

[g$$]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster

Rumors are and they are just rumors..That this might have been an arranged deal

Not buying that in VY's 2nd year & the 1st preseason game. Juicy rumor though agreed! Plus Jimmy was famous for his psychological stuff to get a team going (Curvin Richards, John Roper, etc.). I think VY just made a mistake that won't be repeated.

[Buccaneer]

Last season Young missed the team flight to Philadephia. He was fined but allowed to play!

[burnet44]

a snap is a snap

and no I dont value Vick
but with all the money, time, effoert, to develop a team around him


hurts you bad
I still dont think they recover within 10 years if ever at all
Aint like they are NE, Denver, ect who have a history

They dont have far to recover because as posted 1 playoff win? with Vick and 1 SB because the Vikings were stupid

that loss to Atlanta in the NFC playoffs
Minnesota hasnt recovered yet

[pirate4state]

A.I. quote comes to mind "we're talking about practice?" :devil: :D

[Gsquared]

I guess all the yankee NFL jock sniffers wanna know every little detail. Gotta remember, they arent blessed with having Texas Football to entertain them.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Buccaneer
Last season Young missed the team flight to Philadephia. He was fined but allowed to play!

Exactly, & he was 2 minutes late for that flight!

[burnet44]

he was dropping off his water bottle to Vick before he got on the plane
lol

jk jk jk

[LH Panther Mom]

If he bends the rules for one, he's set a precedent and pretty soon there's no point in having the rules. :)

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by Gsquared
I guess all the yankee NFL jock sniffers wanna know every little detail. Gotta remember, they arent blessed with having Texas Football to entertain them.

You got that right. We could take some of our high school teams up there and give'em a show or two. Vince made a young mistake. But preseason is just practice with a chance to get injured so Jeff is really not doing anything.

[crzyjournalist03]

Fisher is a renowned disciplinarian, so I think he would have followed through...not sure if the team policy dictates an entire game suspension, but if it does, I think Fisher would have gone through with it...he's a dying breed in the NFL, but I think he would have sat.

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
Fisher is a renowned disciplinarian, so I think he would have followed through...not sure if the team policy dictates an entire game suspension, but if it does, I think Fisher would have gone through with it...he's a dying breed in the NFL, but I think he would have sat. Agreed. Of course, he might be looking for a new job come spring, but hey those are the breaks. :D

Fisher & Cower have always been my 2 favorite coaches!! :thumbsup:

[injuredinmelee]

Do you ever start threads that are about something besides UT?
. Ok in al lfairness you do but geez you ahve to admit most of your threads involve some kind of University of Texas mention,

[crzyjournalist03]

Originally posted by injuredinmelee
Do you ever start threads that are about something besides UT?

uh, this one is about the Titans...so that means yes...

[injuredinmelee]

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
uh, this one is about the Titans...so that means yes...

thanks there. Obviously not related in anyway.

[crzyjournalist03]

Originally posted by injuredinmelee
thanks there. Obviously not related in anyway.

I thought that he made it clear at the beginning of his post that he was trying NOT to go into UT-A&M...unless you just don't buy it...

[burnet44]

Originally posted by pirate4state
Agreed. Of course, he might be looking for a new job come spring

Fisher can get another job in a New York minute

[injuredinmelee]

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
I thought that he made it clear at the beginning of his post that he was trying NOT to go into UT-A&M...unless you just don't buy it...

I dont buy it at all. When you preface a comment with a disclaimer, that disclaimer rarely means ca-ca.

[Bull Butter]

Injured, you seem to be the one bound and determined to turn this into another UT-A&M "lovefest". No one else in this thread even mentioned Vince Young's college after the initial post was made. This thread had been focused on Jeff Fisher and the discipline on his team.

Now to get the thread back on track.....................

Young broke a rule and was disciplined for it. It's no longer an issue. If this were the regular season, I'm sure Vince would have been with the team. If not, Fisher would have handled it. Maybe in a different way, but Vince would have been disciplined.

[TMer25]

Originally posted by g$$
I think you value Michael Vick far more than I do. Yes, he is a great athlete playing qb but to me not a great qb. Makes highlight reel plays but has a lot of negative plays too. I think Atlanta recovers in a couple of years after they draft a true qb to play in Bobby Petrino's system (maybe Louisville's Jeff Brohm in 2008?). I don't think Vick plays again in Atlanta for that owner who values PR & doing things right.

(Vick has won 1 playoff game in his career too, at Green Bay years ago, right?)

I'm thinking you meant Brian Brohm from Louisville.

[mustang04]

it was STUPID to sit him out.....they should have fined him, yes he broke a team rule BUT COME ON!!!!!! very poor decision making coach

[injuredinmelee]

Originally posted by Bull Butter
Injured, you seem to be the one bound and determined to turn this into another UT-A&M "lovefest". No one else in this thread even mentioned Vince Young's college after the initial post was made. This thread had been focused on Jeff Fisher and the discipline on his team.

Now to get the thread back on track.....................

Young broke a rule and was disciplined for it. It's no longer an issue. If this were the regular season, I'm sure Vince would have been with the team. If not, Fisher would have handled it. Maybe in a different way, but Vince would have been disciplined.

Im not trying to turn it into anything. Just asking a question. Here are all the threads i can find that have been started by the original author.

Mack Brown thread (http://bbs.3adownlow.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68520)

More Mack Brown (http://bbs.3adownlow.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68299)

Here is one that isnt... HOLY CRAP (http://bbs.3adownlow.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68266)

And yet another UT thread (http://bbs.3adownlow.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68221)

okay that is what i found on just the first two pages of history when searching under his name for threads begun by him. 75% of those are about UT.

[rockdale80]

A true leader leads by example.

[Old Tiger]

How does ones leadership get questioned on a petty issue like this in pre-season. It's not like it was a game of significance. I was watching ESPN and they mentioned the altercation that Vince got into with the safety but what the failed to mention was that it was because he was sticking up for a team mate. This whole issue has been blown out of proportion because it was a slow week in the sports world and columnist/tv personalitites needed something to talk about. Everyone is sick of steroids and there is no Barry Bonds anticipation.

[Old Tiger]

nm(double post)

[burnet44]

Barry never took roids
he didnt know what was in his drink
I believe him

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by burnet44
Barry never took roids
he didnt know what was in his drink
I believe him Nobody said anything about Barry taking steroids! :thinking: :nerd:

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Go Blue
How does ones leadership get questioned on a petty issue like this in pre-season. It's not like it was a game of significance.
Petty issue or not, if the coach allows one player to get away with breaking the rules, then he has a very difficult time enforcing them on down the line when it is significant. Then you end up with the idiots like Vick, Jones, etc thinking they're bigger than the rules & laws. The coach enforced the rule and VY paid the price. I'm sure that Fisher expects Vince to become the leader of the team and to set an example of what's expected. By showing that rules are rules, EVEN and especially for Young, Fisher set a standard for the rest of the team.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Petty issue or not, if the coach allows one player to get away with breaking the rules, then he has a very difficult time enforcing them on down the line when it is significant. Then you end up with the idiots like Vick, Jones, etc thinking they're bigger than the rules & laws. The coach enforced the rule and VY paid the price. I'm sure that Fisher expects Vince to become the leader of the team and to set an example of what's expected. By showing that rules are rules, EVEN and especially for Young, Fisher set a standard for the rest of the team. But athletes are bigger than the rules didn't you know?:D :inlove: :p :p

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Go Blue
But athletes are bigger than the rules didn't you know?:D :inlove: :p :p Yeah, tell that to some of the EX players of that team you support. :devil: ;)

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Yeah, tell that to some of the EX players of that team you support. :devil: ;) :devil: :nerd: :inlove: :kiss:

[crzyjournalist03]

Originally posted by burnet44
Fisher can get another job in a New York minute

:thinking: I could actually see him taking over the Giants when Coughlin finally gets fired...

[District303aPastPlayer]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Petty issue or not, if the coach allows one player to get away with breaking the rules, then he has a very difficult time enforcing them on down the line when it is significant. Then you end up with the idiots like Vick, Jones, etc thinking they're bigger than the rules & laws. The coach enforced the rule and VY paid the price. I'm sure that Fisher expects Vince to become the leader of the team and to set an example of what's expected. By showing that rules are rules, EVEN and especially for Young, Fisher set a standard for the rest of the team.

its only a rule for players within their first 3 years... If you are a 4 year veteran, you are allowed to stay away from the team... granted Vince's leadership is unquestioned (by me at least), this was a stupid mistake...

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by District303aPastPlayer
its only a rule for players within their first 3 years... If you are a 4 year veteran, you are allowed to stay away from the team... granted Vince's leadership is unquestioned (by me at least), this was a stupid mistake... :p Sorry, doesn't matter to me if it's a 15-minute rule or "lifetime of the player" rule. The coach and/or commissioner (IMO) has to enforce them or end up with a team run amock.

[crzyjournalist03]

Just throwing this out there, but my guess is if it's a regular season game, VY follows the rules to start with and it never becomes an issue...he's a smart guy...

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by pirate4state
A.I. quote comes to mind "we're talking about practice?" :devil: :D

these pre-season games are like scrimmages, right? which are just glorified practices, right? i'm just asking. not excusing his behavior, but this seems to be blown just a tad out of proportion, IMHO.

[burnet44]

Originally posted by pirate4state
A.I. quote comes to mind "we're talking about practice?" :devil: :D

yeah and he needs all of it he can get

and NO he is not in the same universe as far as compairing these two. IA was way more talented and developed at the same time period as VY. VY needs a lot of work. If he cant see that, he will just be another QB. He could develop into a pretty good one. But just athletic ability alone, while helpful, will not make you great. The great ones? Unitias, manning, Montana, Graham, Elway, Marino, Kelly, Young, Fouts ect while not having much of the athletic ability VY has won games honing their craft. many times players depend too much on athletic ability to win instead of combining it with craftmanship. Craftmanship is honing your craft by working tirelessly to become an expert. If Vince does not take this approach he will become just another QB who could have been great. Ryan Leaf didnt do this. VY is not Ryan Leaf. I was just using Leaf as an example of not honing your craft.

Me?
Id be there every day working
Film, weights, running, nutritution, public appearences for the team, ect. Take time off when your done. Not when you are starting. Every snap counts in his development. If I was his Id be begging jeff for more pre-season playing time. I NEED the work. yeah i know Jeff has to have backups. Incidents like this make your radar go off. Ever see manning do this? NO he is in the film room. And has a key so he can lock up when everone is gone. Or can open when people aint there. There is a reason for his success and its not all physical.

fire away

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by Go Blue
How does ones leadership get questioned on a petty issue like this in pre-season. It's not like it was a game of significance. I was watching ESPN and they mentioned the altercation that Vince got into with the safety but what the failed to mention was that it was because he was sticking up for a team mate. This whole issue has been blown out of proportion because it was a slow week in the sports world and columnist/tv personalitites needed something to talk about. Everyone is sick of steroids and there is no Barry Bonds anticipation.


It is called a team for a reason. I can name several teams that have no discipline, have talent, and cant ever seem to play up to the standard they should. Call me crazy, but it pisses me off when any one person thinks they are above the rules and above the team. If you dont like the rules then get out. VY or not, this is unacceptable. Get with the team, or get off it. Thats my opinion.

[burnet44]

agreed

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by rockdale80
It is called a team for a reason. I can name several teams that have no discipline, have talent, and cant ever seem to play up to the standard they should. Call me crazy, but it pisses me off when any one person thinks they are above the rules and above the team. If you dont like the rules then get out. VY or not, this is unacceptable. Get with the team, or get off it. Thats my opinion. Yea but it's pre-season game. He would play a possesion or two and be done with the game. It's really NOT a big deal AT ALL. He doesn't effect how the 3rd and 4th teamers will play either. Like I said in that earlier post that there isn't much going on in sports anymore so they need whatever they can get to talk about to take up air time.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Go Blue
Yea but it's pre-season game. He would play a possesion or two and be done with the game. It's really NOT a big deal AT ALL. He doesn't effect how the 3rd and 4th teamers will play either. Like I said in that earlier post that there isn't much going on in sports anymore so they need whatever they can get to talk about to take up air time. You're right - it's not a big deal at all. Gosh! Let's just skip training camp, since it's just "practice". Ooooh, let's skip team meetings....after all, it's just a bunch of talking and/or watching film.

Now, if it's some guy 4th on the depth chart, no one would hear about it....probably even for the Super Bowl. But, when it's possibly the starting QB, it's going to hit the news. Maybe it shouldn't be newsworthy. But, Fisher has to say "this is my team and these are my rules". IMO, it's better to establish that early on rather than later, when it DOES mean something.

[pirate4state]

this is another one of those "agree to disagree" deals.

*shrug*

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
You're right - it's not a big deal at all. Gosh! Let's just skip training camp, since it's just "practice". Ooooh, let's skip team meetings....after all, it's just a bunch of talking and/or watching film.

Now, if it's some guy 4th on the depth chart, no one would hear about it....probably even for the Super Bowl. But, when it's possibly the starting QB, it's going to hit the news. Maybe it shouldn't be newsworthy. But, Fisher has to say "this is my team and these are my rules". IMO, it's better to establish that early on rather than later, when it DOES mean something. You completely missed the point I was making. Pre-season for starters isn't a big deal. It is more high risk than anything. It is important for those who are trying to make the team and or fighting for position on the the depth chart. I don't think Kerry Collins is going to beat Vince out in the QB run so therefore it is not a big deal.

Don't get me wrong he should be punished but it is not a big deal AT ALL.

[Old Tiger]

nm(double post)

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by Go Blue
You completely missed the point I was making. Pre-season for starters isn't a big deal. It is more high risk than anything. It is important for those who are trying to make the team and or fighting for position on the the depth chart. I don't think Kerry Collins is going to beat Vince out in the QB run so therefore it is not a big deal.

Don't get me wrong he should be punished but it is not a big deal AT ALL.

Its more of being there with/for your team, and not thinking you are above them. You live by the same rules as the 3rd or 4th string guys. Those are the rules. Either abide or get out of the way. Bad attitudes can poison even the most talented team. I am not surprised to hear this coming from you anyway. I think this was your logic in HS if I am not mistaken.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by rockdale80
Its more of being there with/for your team, and not thinking you are above them. You live by the same rules as the 3rd or 4th string guys. Those are the rules. Either abide or get out of the way. Bad attitudes can poison even the most talented team. I am not surprised to hear this coming from you anyway. I think this was your logic in HS if I am not mistaken. Those are the rules in HS or college where money isn't involved either. NFL works differently it all depends on who you are and how much you make.

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by Go Blue
Those are the rules in HS or college where money isn't involved either. NFL works differently it all depends on who you are and how much you make.

Not to everyone. The ones that have been called true team leaders like Favre, Aikman, Marino, etc were never in the news about being suspended for breaking the rules. That is because they knew their role and lived up to it. VY should not get preferential treatment. And you all know I admire and respect him. But while I praise the things he does right, I will darn sure shake my head when he does wrong. I am glad that Fisher stands up for what he believes is right when it comes to discipline.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by rockdale80
Not to everyone. The ones that have been called true team leaders like Favre, Aikman, Marino, etc were never in the news about being suspended for breaking the rules. That is because they knew their role and lived up to it. VY should not get preferential treatment. And you all know I admire and respect him. But while I praise the things he does right, I will darn sure shake my head when he does wrong. I am glad that Fisher stands up for what he believes is right when it comes to discipline. As I said in an earlier post.


Don't get me wrong he should be punished but it is not a big deal AT ALL.

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by Go Blue
As I said in an earlier post.

Maybe it wont be now, because punishment was doled out. It should never have been an issue in the first place. He knew where he was supposed to be and chose not to be. That is the part that is a big deal. Sure him missing being there is not a big deal, but him knowingly missing is another thing. Glad he was punished and hope it rectifies the problem.

[JR2004]

Another pointless story that ESPN managed to drag out as long as possible on a slow period for news. I guess they ran out of Bengals to report on.

At least now they can get back to being preoccupied with Vick going to prison shortly and Donaghy possibly getting ready to spill the beans now that he's plead guilty.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by rockdale80
Not to everyone. The ones that have been called true team leaders like Favre, Aikman, Marino, etc were never in the news about being suspended for breaking the rules. That is because they knew their role and lived up to it. VY should not get preferential treatment. And you all know I admire and respect him. But while I praise the things he does right, I will darn sure shake my head when he does wrong. I am glad that Fisher stands up for what he believes is right when it comes to discipline. favre was, for abusing pain killers.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Let's just skip training camp, since it's just "practice". Ooooh, let's skip team meetings....after all, it's just a bunch of talking and/or watching film.
he stayed at home instead of the hotel. when did he do the rest of that?

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by JR2004
Another pointless story that ESPN managed to drag out as long as possible on a slow period for news. i agree! BLOWN way up:rolleyes:

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by DDBooger
he stayed at home instead of the hotel. when did he do the rest of that?
:doh: Yeah, I know.....was trying to make a point about "team rules". :p I guess it failed. :weeping:

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
:doh: Yeah, I know.....was trying to make a point about "team rules". :p I guess it failed. :weeping: probably cause you attached things that didn't pertain to him! VY made a mistake, he payed for it! ask anyone on that team who the leader is, not bad for a second year qb! people make mistakes, im sure he's forgiven and he'll shine!

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by DDBooger
probably cause you attached things that didn't pertain to him! VY made a mistake, he payed for it! ask anyone on that team who the leader is, not bad for a second year qb! people make mistakes, im sure he's forgiven and he'll shine! (Really, I was just arguing with Go Blue.....VY is his "boy". ;) )

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
(Really, I was just arguing with Go Blue.....VY is his "boy". ;) ) understood;)

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
(Really, I was just arguing with Go Blue.....VY is his "boy". ;) ) Yes we hang out when he comes into town.