Coaches right's when it comes to team rules.... [Archive]

kaorder1999

10-09-2002, 12:10 PM

Just wanted to see what yall think on the issue! B-Ball Coach in Lancaster is not allowing someone on the team because of his hair. Dont know the whole story....I think the kid has braids or cornrolls or whatever....well...the school board in involved now....The question is.....how much control should the coach have when enforcing team rules? Can he not allow the kid to play or should he be forced to let the kid play with his hair the way it is?

2001GiddingsLB

10-09-2002, 01:07 PM

I believe that excluding someone from the team for hairstyle preferences is ridiculous. However, maybe if I knew the full story I wouldn't think so, because if a kid isn't willing to sacrifice a little fashion statement for his team what else might he might not be willing to sacrifice: his time, his energy, his body.

Ranger Mom

10-09-2002, 01:30 PM

The basketball coach in Greenwood won't allow anyone to play on his team with bleached hair. This is from 7th grade up. A lot of the boys will have bleached hair in football and have to shave their head, or make sure all the dye is gone before basketball starts!!

PPHSfan

10-09-2002, 01:38 PM

I am gonna catch some flak on this one for sure, and will probably end up being a lonely one star general on the 3ADL board but here goes. I am a firm believer in the Coach setting the Dress Code for the football team, and I believe that "Hairstyle" falls under the dress code. OUR kids are expected to adhere to the dress code begining in the seventh grade when they start wearing the school colors and team name. No player is allowed to wear baggy clothes, shirts must be tucked in at all times, belt worn, etc.. etc.. the dress code for the football team even goes so far as to how you walk and sit up straight in class, and speaking to all faculty with respect (yes sir, no sir, you get the picture). This dress code extends beyond the school grounds all the way to the city limit signs, SEVEN DAYS A WEEK. Any player caught in violation pays the price immediatley, or at the next practice in push-ups, grass drills, and running. Is this strict? Yes it is, but I think it cuts right down to the bone of what Highschool football is SUPPOSED to be all about."Teaching the kids the importance of Teamwork, Community, and preparing them for the real world." Once they graduate they are going to run into the same situations at work and in life. I am sure MICROSOFT has a dress code, I know the Army sure does, and so do most fortune 500 companies. YES, I believe the coach has the authority to set whatever standards he sees fit for every player, last time I looked Football was not a required class , so the choice the kids have is not to play.

CodeBlue

10-09-2002, 02:07 PM

My belief is that people - not just students - have to learn to follow rules to live in our society. Some we agree with others we do not, but that doesn't change the fact that we have to follow them. As professional eductators, we have to follow the rules of our respective school districts. If we choose not to follow them, then we have consequences - one of which is that we don't work there. Students on a team are there not just to learn the sport, but to learn to work as a part of a group (team). If they are not willing to follow the "boss's" (coaches) rules now, will they be willing to follow the guidelines set out in their chosen professions?

this is the way we ball

10-09-2002, 02:09 PM

PPHSfan your are Da' Man..

The head coach has the right to enforce rules that he believes are in the best interest of the kids and his team. Players that don't want to abide by the rules can choose to do something else. PPHSfan is exactly right, coaches are trying to promote the team concept, wearing your hair in a way that brings attention to a particular player is not a team concept.

Lot's of teams will all dye their hair or all get a particular hair style (ex. mo hawk) and I believe that promotes unity.. :cool:

bulldog65

10-09-2002, 04:05 PM

I,m gonna go with PPHSfan, All sports, not just football, are extra-curricular activities. It is a privilage to represent your school and community. These are TEAM sports, not the proper venue for individualism.

Ranger Mom

10-09-2002, 04:26 PM

WOW PPHSfan, you have lots of support!! I personally have no problem with the dress code. My son had the top of his hair dyed blonde last year and had to shave it for basketball. He knew that going in, so it was no biggie!! I think it shows discipline. Our boys don't have to wear their shirts tucked in everyday, but on Thursday's (son is freshman) they have to dress up for the pep rally. Khaki pants, polo shirts, etc. I just thought is was funny that the coaches tell them what kind of shirt to wear for the pep rally and then they have their jersey's on over it!! :p :p :p

russ31

10-09-2002, 04:52 PM

All extra-curricular events are subject to separate rules as determined by that particular sponsor/coach, however I do not believe that the coach can legally punish/require the kids to abide by his dress-code "all the way to the city limits". That's BS, pure and simple. I have no problem with dress codes on campus or at school sanctioned events, but on personal time, they have no right to censure what a player wears, does, says, etc. That coach is over-stepping his boundaries.

BULLDOGFAN

10-09-2002, 08:17 PM

You call them Coach because they are suppose to teach you a sport. They are not there to decide what you ARE, but what you ARE to become. They are the artist and the kids are the canvas. If a kid lacks discipline then kick his butt off the team. Just because someone chooses a less traveled road does not give a P.E. majored coach the right to be his judge and executioner. Some of the best athletes and coaches I know of were extrovert's. It's called spirit of the sport because of an individual's need to win. Let the kid's be who they are and let the coaches coach. Momma needs to stay at home.

<small>[ October 10, 2002, 07:22 AM: Message edited by: BULLDOGFAN ]</small>

Jacket2000

10-09-2002, 08:24 PM

Im 100% on board with the coach on this one. Athletics are a privilege, not a right. You abide by the rules, or you watch from the stands. Besides, in my opinion, the biggest problem in sports in general is the lack of "team first" attitude. It seems to me that the coach wants one team on the court, not 5 individuals. I say, more power to'em!
J2K

riverboat gambler

10-09-2002, 08:30 PM

Way to go PPHSfan. I also believe in the coach setting the dress code even to the community. Our boys have to wear ties on game days. You have my support.

Bulldog92

10-09-2002, 08:38 PM

I can see both sides of the argument, but the bottom line is that coaches aren't supposed to be parents (or any sort of legal guardian). To me, coaches are people kids should look up to as mentors and kids should have the right to express their individuality and be kids as long as they aren't offending anyone or breaking the law. It's important to coach life's lessons as well as the sports a kid chooses to play, but the parents should be the ones responsible for how a kid looks when he walks out of the house. I applaud the principle of what the coach in question is doing, but the reins are a little too tight in my opinion. It's okay for kids to have freedoms as long as they don't abuse them and coaches should be mindful of that.

luvhoops34

10-09-2002, 09:03 PM

PPHSfan

Right on dude!! The coach has the right to set the rules. If you want to play, you follow HIS/HER rules. Period. It's a team sport. No room for individuality. :D

Matthew328

10-09-2002, 09:36 PM

Personally I don't feel a kid having his hair braided or having a 'fro or whatever is that big of a deal....true a team is one unit but what makes a team special is the different personalities that come together to form a team not just a bunch of robots per-say...personally when I graduate and am lucky enough to coach a team I'll enforce some sort of dress code but not too strict....you have to walk a fine line..let the kids be themselves yet rein them in enough to be a disciplined cohesive unit...not an easy thing to do...but anything worthwhile in this world is tough..

BigOLinemen75

10-09-2002, 09:46 PM

I think all that should be said is team unity. and you also have to take into consideration of how the team would look. Don't you think that it might be somewhat of an embarrassment to the team to have someone on the court with a giant blonde fro, or some crazy braids over their head?

BH_146

10-09-2002, 09:59 PM

A lot has been stated about a coach setting rules because it teaches one to be part of the team. And the coach has the right to set rules even those that might be separate for the code of behavior in the student handbook. These rules not only teach one to be part of the team but are important to be part of the community and the real world. And a head coach has the right to enforce rules he believes are in the best interest of the team. Students should have a "team first" attitude.

A school's general dress code is one that is set and adoped by the school board. Board members are elected by the community and they set standards which are demanded by the community they represent. And these standards tend to change over the course of time reflecting the times and current community make up. Regardless of what one may think, each school employee works for the community that employs them. And by signing a contract, each employee agrees to up hold the guidelines set by the local board. Should a coach be given the ability to circumvent these guidelines? Should coaches be excluded from being "team players" in the educational process? Or should a coach work with the local board to coordinate rules and guidelines in the school code of behavior which would allow him to be a team player? There is much talk about teaching students to be team players yet what I am reading is a coach should be allowed to be an individual, setting their own rules. If the local board sets the standards and the coach doesn't like those standards, should we say "Hey, it's a one year contract coach. If you don't like it, then ....." Isn't this what we are saying to the students who don't like the coach's rules which may be separate from the code of conduct in the student handbook.

You may say, that a coaches' standards are higher or more demanding thus better for the student athlete. How far would that reasoning get a team leader in Microsoft who goes outside the by-laws of the company? What would happened to the sargent who tells the general that the Army's rules are not good enough? Is it about being a team player or individuality?

Just a view from the flip-side.

russ31

10-10-2002, 03:13 AM

No room for individuality BS!! Coaches aren't there to make mindless automatrons! There is room for individuality on every team. It doesn't take away from team unity. I'm not talking about the kids who think that they're Deion Sanders and wear the wristband/armband/legband/do rag combo, I wouldn't go for that. I'm talking about kids being themselves. Contrary to what some people believe (and I was one of them until I joined the real world), football is not the end-all-be-all of high school. You're there to learn, get and education. I think that team sports teaches many valuable life lessons, and not playing is doing yourself a disservice, but football for most of us is not going to pay the bills. I was lucky enough to get to play ball in college. Only two guys (including me) had that opportunity after high school. We were in the minority. ONE of the players I played with in college went on to the NFL. My point is not many are going to make it, the education you get is the most important thing in school. A lot of coaches don't realize that (or don't care) because football IS their livelihood. They take themselves too seriously. They have a wonderful opportunity to shape their kids' lives, and create great young men, IF they use their power and influence the right way. In the wrong coach's hands that power can turn a kid sour to the game, hate the politics of the sport, and become resentful of their high school experience. Coaches overstepping their boundaries, and being unnecessarily hard-assed is a perfect example of how that can happen.

tors2002

10-10-2002, 08:22 AM

Ok, I tried to stay out of this as long as I could but several of the post just got me fired up.

First of all, PPHSFan u hit the nail right on the head. I agree with you 150%. Russ31, Matthew328,Bulldog92,and Bulldogfan ya'll are the reason that kids these days show no respect to adults and authority figures. The kids (not all but a select few) are growing up being protected and babied by not supporting dress codes, drug testing , and discipline in our schools.

Drug Testing is more important than you think. I know I would want to know if my son or daughter was playing a sport who's opponent was under the influence of drugs or had it in his system.

The dress codes teaches the players how to act as one team and a sign of unity. When I was in school it made us feel as if we were one all dressed alike and feeling very solid as ONE.

Schools better start realizing that they better start doing things that will help the kids later in life instead of babying them for the moment and giving in to parent pressure over hair or clothes. It is the school's school so they make the rules.

Jacket2000

10-10-2002, 08:37 AM

Very true. Also, Ive always felt that athletes should be held to a higher standard then the general student population. But, that's just my opinion.
J2K

Matthew328

10-10-2002, 08:51 AM

Like I said, I have no problem with team unity, but it isn't a one-way street...you have to let a kid be him or herself in some ways...like BH_146 said isn't hypocritical of a coach to want his players to be team players, when he in himself is being an individual by setting his own dress codes and policies?? In the big picture isn't the coach part of a team as well as an employee of a district?? Student-athletes should be held to a higher standard there is no question they are represenatives of their school, community and family...but still I think most of the coaches who try to ban certian hair-styles are mostly just old school coaches that are set in their ways...kids will be kids and they'll do things that adults don't agree with or don't like...back in the day this debate went on as well I am sure with players and long hair..I am sure some coaches banned it and some didn't...I am sure neither side of the issue then had an inordinate amount of players who turned out to be non-contributing members of society....it was probably pretty much the same...how a kid will be and what kind of person he will be doesn't come from a coach it usually starts in the home..a coach is usually someone who helps guide a kid in the right direction...basically this whole debate doesn't have any right or wrong answers..everyone is entittled to their opinion..I am just of the belief that a kid can wear his hair anyway he wants to as long as it is in compliance with the school district's dress code policy...or course I don't feel by me doing that I am influencing kids to be bad citizens or anything as tors2002 implies..you did contridict yourself tors2002...you said it is the school's school so they make the rules right? Well in some of these cases of the braids the kids are in compliance with the school's rules of dress it is the coach who made his own set of rules but I thought it was the school's rules?...which one is it? Is it the school's rules or the coaches rules?

<small>[ October 10, 2002, 08:55 AM: Message edited by: Matthew328 ]</small>

bulldog65

10-10-2002, 09:02 AM

I am so sick of this I,I, Me,Me crap! A defensive tackle makes a sack, runs 10 yards downfield thumping his chest, LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME!! Never mind the guy next to him was double teamed or someone on offense blew an assignment. Individuals don't win championships, TEAMS DO! The Heisman Trophy winner didn't make a yard without someone calling the play, handing the ball off, or blocking. I am not talking about some kid walking around the Mall wearing his pants so low you see half his underwear, that doesn't bother me, that is his way of making a statement, whatever that may be. I'm not saying he or she can not be an individual. But at school, or when he walks on that football, or baseball, or whatever field of play, he represents ME! I pay taxes, I vote for school board members, and I support whatever dress code they deem appropriate. If I don't like it, I can vote them out. If a coach goes too far, and makes truly unreasonable demands according to the community, he can be fired. Thank God we don't have that problem at our school! The reason there are so many members on this board is they have a strong passion for high school football. I have some very good memories of playing, and I hope my son has the same feeling. When you look back on your life you will find that issues that were very important at the time, were really not that life shattering. But the relationships formed with your teammates, many of them life long, are what really matter.

Ranger Mom

10-10-2002, 09:02 AM

Reading all these posts, I see good arguments for both sides. I really don't know where I stand now!! :rolleyes:

THANKS!!! As if i don't already have enough confusion in my life.......LOL :D

The hair thing doesn't bother my kids, they know the rules going in, so I don't let it bother me either.....I am one of those "mommas" who does stay home on this matter!!

BULLDOGFAN

10-10-2002, 09:17 AM

Tors2002, you may be a worthy DEMOCRAT someday but I beg to differ with you on this issue. I am so tired of parents that think the school system or the coaches need to discipline anyone's kid. If the kid is not disciplined by High School, he most likley will not be afterwards. It is always easier to take responsibility for ones own self then to try and learn it from other's. Now Caoches that choose to let Pot Heads, Failure's, Drunks, play for there team while turning a blind eye because they are good, is another question. That is their EGO, not the kids.

duckbutter

10-10-2002, 09:19 AM

In Newton not only do the players have a dress code but so does K-12 grades. Newton's school board passed a dress code policy prohibiting cornrows, fros, spiked hair, bleached hair and untucked shirts. The kids must also wear belts.

football_fanatic

10-10-2002, 09:43 AM

It is our job as high school football coaches to prepare young men for the "real world". The "real world" does not care how sensitive you are, or what your personal feelings are, or how you want to express yourself. You say these coaches are posing unreasonable demands on their players! Well, life is always putting unreasonable, unfair, impossible demands on everyone. How you deal with these things is the key. We, as coaches, need to have our kids ready for them when they come along, and they WILL come along.
How terrible for a coach to ask his kids to be good students, good role models for the community, and good people on and off the field!(sarcasm). I thank God I had High School coaches that impressed upon me the values of discipline, hard work, and selflessness. I was raised in a bad household, with none of these things taught to me at home. If it were not for coaches, I would have never learned these invaluable lessons. Most kids out there are in the same situation I was in. They need good MEN to teach them to act like good MEN.
I like what the Dunbar Bball coach said about it on ESPN. He said "I don't care about SELF-expression on my TEAM. You want to express yourself...play tough defense!"

football_fanatic

10-10-2002, 09:43 AM

tors2002

10-10-2002, 10:07 AM

I agree that they "should" be disciplined by the time they get to High School but this is not a perfect world. Not every student lives at home or has both parents to teach them right and wrong. Look around at some of the students and their home life. I speak from experience that sometimes a coach or teacher can help make a difference with there is no help at home. The only time a loser parent, who is not home with their kids, complain to the school is when the school tries to discipline, set dress codes, or drug test their child.

Prime Example: Lockney ISD getting sued because they had passed a drug testing policy. A father sued the school and has won so far in the courts. I begin to wonder if he knows that his son would test positive. As a parent I would never object to drug testing. Everyone cries Unconstitutional on everything the school tries to implement. If you don't like the school rules you can find another one or home school.

russ31

10-10-2002, 11:43 AM

EVERYONE HERE AGREES on the fact that dress codes should be required for student-athletes and that they should be held to higher standards. We don't have to argue that point anymore. The argument is how far-reaching it should be. TORS2002, you called me out, so I'll address your BS allegation that it's people like me who cause kids to disrespect authority figures. BS!!! The ONLY persons to blame for that, are the PARENTS AND THE KIDS THEMSELVES. It doesn't matter that the kids have deadbeat dads or moms who can't control them, the responsibility of raising that child is still on those very parents. THE PARENTS failed, not anyone else. Secondly, the kid needs to take responsibility for his or her own actions. Period. They're all old enough to do that by the time they're in the 3rd grade, much less high school. And another thing tors2002, public schools are funded by public and government money and hence DO NOT have the power to override the rights of U.S. citizens. Why do you think that rulings usually go against school districts in court when it's an issue of first amendment rights, etc.

Football -fanatic.... No one is saying that it's a bad thing that coaches want kids to be good citizens, role models, people on and off the field. EVERYONE here is for that. And you're right, the real world doesn't care if someone wants to be an individual, but in the real world they have the right to do that without being questioned as long as it doesn't infringe upon anyone else's rights and is not illegal.

Matthew328

10-10-2002, 12:00 PM

Good point russ31....in society we all must conform in some way...what is more important conformity in behavior or dress?? Personally if I become a coach I'd prefer to focus on behavior and the actions of a student rather than the dress..I figure that'll get em a lot further in life...Think about it...as a teacher or coach would you rather have a kid who dresses just the way you'd like and follows the dress code but is a total arse..or the kid with the braids or the blue hair that is well mannered and a good kid? I know it is an extreme example but it makes my point about conformity...I think we have more important things to work on with the kids than their hair...

Ranger Mom

10-10-2002, 01:03 PM

All of Midland's middle schools (except the private schools and Greenwood) are now required to wear uniforms to school. Khaki pants and blue or white shirts.

Owen B

10-10-2002, 02:51 PM

No school administrator, teacher, or coach has or should have absolute authority. If a kid’s parents think they have a legitimate and major grievance, it is appropriate for them to take the matter up with a higher authority.

I don’t know the facts in the Lancaster matter but, if the kid’s hair is neat, clean, and otherwise meets the standards of the school dress code, I think the coach is probably being unreasonable if he is excluding the kid solely on the basis of his hairstyle. However, it could easily be that there are other reasons and the hairstyle is just the one being emphasized by the kid and his parents. Even if the coach were unreasonably strict in his enforcement of his standards, unless his decision violated school policy in some way, I would lean toward upholding it.

slpybear the bullfan

10-10-2002, 06:59 PM

As many other wise ones have already said, this is a simple matter.

If there are rules to be on the team regarding dress code, language, etc. you have two choices... follow them or get off the team. If the rules violate school policy, then the coach might get told to change them.

What I really want to know is... What is basketball? Is that where they play with the funny orange ball? wink wink wink