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luvhoops34
07-26-2007, 11:24 AM
For all you conspiracy theorists and Spurs haters, please read:


Sad humor: What a fix Suns were in

Web Posted: 07/25/2007 10:59 PM CDT


San Antonio Express-News

One of the signs a referee is fixing games, according to David Letterman, is this:

"When talking about the Spurs, says we."

That's not as funny as Letterman's other telltale signs, such as "Knicks are winning." But the Spurs' angle sure plays well in Phoenix. There, the second angriest mob (after the Gambino family) sees yet another reason to question a world that allows Robert Horry to prosper.

It's justified, and it's also something David Stern can't correct with a thousand press conferences. All doubt has been validated, and a review of Game 3 of the Suns-Spurs series comes with revisionist bite. For example, the San Antonio crowd chanted "dirty, dirty," at Amare Stoudemire because of comments he'd made about the Spurs just days before.

If everyone had only known who really deserved those words.

That a crooked ref was involved May 12 is damning enough for the league. But did Tim Donaghy, working the last game of his life, also give the Spurs a title as a parting gift?

Issue No. 1: Stoudemire played only 21 minutes because of foul trouble, and Donaghy called the first two on him.

What the replays show: The first is not debatable. Then, Stoudemire mistimed his jump and landed on Michael Finley's back with such force that Finley needed a moment to get up.

The second is less obvious but not clearly a mistake. Horry cut, and Stoudemire, a notoriously lazy defender, didn't move his feet. Jon Barry, working TV that night, called it "a young foul."

Fouls three, four and five on Stoudemire? Donaghy called none of them.

Issue No. 2: Donaghy, from midcourt, blew a late whistle on a Manu Ginobili drive. The replay showed little if any contact. "I don't know what he saw," said Barry of Donaghy.

If Donaghy wanted to increase scoring and thus win an over-under bet, he'd invent fouls. And if Donaghy wanted the Spurs to win, he would have wanted to help them when they trailed by nine in the second quarter.

What the replays show: It was an awful call. But Boris Diaw responded with a score to return the Suns to their 9-point lead. And, after a Tony Parker miss, Donaghy was involved again — calling Tim Duncan for a foul that built the Phoenix lead to double digits.

Issue No. 3: Bruce Bowen stripped Steve Nash twice with plays that included some contact, and Bowen ended with only two fouls on the night. One of them was an offensive foul when he kneed Nash.

What the replays show: Ignoring Bowen's fouls goes against the over-under theory. But more telling, Donaghy wasn't involved in these plays. The no-call that drew a technical from Mike D'Antoni came from another ref, Greg Willard.

Willard was the Suns' target that night, not Donaghy. Appearing in the Express-News in the next day's editions was a sample from an unidentified Phoenix coach. "Greg Willard," he said, "just had the worst game in the history of officiating."

Willard also missed Shawn Marion clawing at Ginobili, accidentally catching his eye. Ginobili didn't like that no-call, either. He responded by scoring eight points in the final 1:30 of the third quarter.

Nash didn't react as well. An Arizona columnist wrote then, "It may have been the worst big game he's played since rejoining the Suns."

The third referee, Eddie F. Rush, didn't do much better. When an Arizona reporter made his own review of the game tape this week, he pointed to a call Rush made in the third quarter that resulted in Stoudemire's fourth personal.

"That was perhaps the most damaging, and questionable, of all the calls against Stoudemire," he wrote. "In fact, if somebody asked whether we thought the fix was in, we'd have fingered Rush for sure."

Maybe Donaghy didn't try to fix that game. Maybe he didn't have to. But when looking for signs — as Letterman was — a replay suggests something worthy of late-night humor.

Donaghy might have been the best official that night.

bharvey@express-news.net

DDBooger
07-26-2007, 11:58 AM
:clap: ...but in the end, did ya really care what they thought! haha

:rolleyes: besides its SAexpress, im sure there will be cries of "bias, bias" ;)

luvhoops34
07-26-2007, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by DDBooger
:clap: ...but in the end, did ya really care what they thought! haha

:rolleyes: besides its SAexpress, im sure there will be cries of "bias, bias" ;)


Damm I was hoping nobody would notice where I got the article from! :D

Gobbla2001
07-26-2007, 12:47 PM
if these are facts they're facts... no matter where they come from...

either way the game was not called fairly... but both teams got away with "some"...

luvhoops34
07-26-2007, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by Gobbla2001
if these are facts they're facts... no matter where they come from...

either way the game was not called fairly... but both teams got away with "some"...

True....And the article, even though it was written by the expressnews, points that out.:D

piratebg
07-26-2007, 12:49 PM
Looks good to me. :)

DDBooger
07-26-2007, 12:52 PM
im sure we'll find out that david stern purposely scheduled that game on that day because the gravitional pull from mars aligned with the moon would have a greater effect for the spurs than the suns! come on, I couldn't respect that!:mad: lmao:D

TMer25
07-26-2007, 01:30 PM
Here are a couple of excerpts from Bill Simmons very different opinion of Game 3:

Congratulations to Greg Willard, Tim Donaghy and Eddie F. Rush for giving us the most atrociously officiated game of the playoffs so far: Game 3 of the Suns-Spurs series. Bennett Salvatore, Tom Washington and Violet Palmer must have been outraged that they weren't involved in this mess. Good golly. Most of the calls favored the Spurs, but I don't even think the refs were biased -- they were so incompetent that there was no rhyme or reason to anything that was happening. Other than the latest call in NBA history (a shooting foul for Manu Ginobili whistled three seconds after the play, when everyone was already running in the other direction), my favorite moment happened near the end, when the game was already over and they called a cheap bump on Bruce Bowen against Nash, so the cameras caught Mike D'Antoni (the most entertaining coach in the league if he's not getting calls) screaming sarcastically, "Why start now? Why bother?" What a travesty. Not since the cocaine era from 1978-1986 has the league faced a bigger ongoing issue than crappy officiating.

Before the Donaghy scandal broke, if you told me there was a compromised official working a 2007 playoff game and made me guess the game, I would have selected Game 3 of the Spurs-Suns series. There were some jaw-dropping calls throughout, specifically, the aforementioned Ginobili call and Bowen hacking Nash on a no-call drive that ABC replayed from its basket camera (leading to a technical from D'Antoni). Both times, Mike Breen felt obligated to break the unwritten code that play-by-play announcers -- don't challenge calls and openly questioned what had happened. The whole game was strange. Something seemed off about it.

Adidas410s
07-26-2007, 01:38 PM
you can't just point to one game. You have to look at every game that Donaghy officiated...what the outcome was...and how that ultimately influenced the playoff brackets. Anything that has taken place in the last 2 seasons...I just can't buy into any more that it was all legit. Too many variables to try to rationalize your way through it. Doesn't mean the Spurs homers won't keep trying though.

luvhoops34
07-26-2007, 01:54 PM
If the ref in question didn't make the bad calls, then where is your problem???

All three refs made bad calls against both teams in that game.

KTA
07-26-2007, 04:46 PM
San Antonio Express-News

Enough Said

Gobbla2001
07-26-2007, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by KTA
Enough Said

did they change the facts or something?

KTA
07-26-2007, 05:18 PM
BIASED OPINION

DDBooger
07-26-2007, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by KTA
BIASED OPINION other than its from s.a. is there anything else to substantiate a bias? are his facts skewed? misleading or based on false pretense? in other words is there a rebuttal to his POV?

Gobbla2001
07-26-2007, 05:27 PM
this article lays down facts that suggest the game was not directly influenced by the ref in question... that's what the "facts" in this article state... the point of this article is made by facts, not opinions...

the article does not say the game was fairly called, it just states the game was not influenced by the mob-ref...

agree?

DDBooger
07-26-2007, 05:27 PM
generally just asking, i didnt pay much attention to the series, not much of a basketball fan, but i do find it funny some of the assumptions raised, but perhaps you have a better perspective, cause quite frankly if arguments were objective it would be not how he helped the spurs but how he helped himself and determined more than just spurs games!

Gobbla2001
07-26-2007, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by DDBooger
generally just asking, i didnt pay much attention to the series, not much of a basketball fan, but i do find it funny some of the assumptions raised, but perhaps you have a better perspective, cause quite frankly if arguments were objective it would be not how he helped the spurs but how he helped himself and determined more than just spurs games!

all I know is that at the time we all agreed that was a poorly called game, and in most cases the Spurs got the better end of the deal... but this topic has gone away until now, now everyone's going nuts about game 3, yet when you read the facts, it seems the ref in question really had no part in influencing the game...

sooo, basically we're back to square one... go away

DDBooger
07-26-2007, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by Gobbla2001
all I know is that at the time we all agreed that was a poorly called game, and in most cases the Spurs got the better end of the deal... but this topic has gone away until now, now everyone's going nuts about game 3, yet when you read the facts, it seems the ref in question really had no part in influencing the game...

sooo, basically we're back to square one... go away :clap: wait...you may be biased! ;)

bulldogman06
07-26-2007, 05:34 PM
I agree. im tired of hearing this crap about how lucky the spurs got, cheating officials, etc. shut up, and look to next year. I already am. people whine about the spurs, basically because of jealousy because their team isnt winning and SA is. im sure the NBA wants san antonio (a small market city) to dominate so they can get those big bucks there, oh wait, thats not SA, its dallas, new york, la, and now cleveland because of lebron. the nba hates the spurs almost as much as mavs and suns fans do. plus, that "boring" basketball has ratings down. tell me again why anyone would want them to win? is the mob that prevalent in san antonio?

Bandera YaYa
07-26-2007, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by bulldogman06
I agree. im tired of hearing this crap about how lucky the spurs got, cheating officials, etc. shut up, and look to next year. I already am. people whine about the spurs, basically because of jealousy because their team isnt winning and SA is. im sure the NBA wants san antonio (a small market city) to dominate so they can get those big bucks there, oh wait, thats not SA, its dallas, new york, la, and now cleveland because of lebron. the nba hates the spurs almost as much as mavs and suns fans do. plus, that "boring" basketball has ratings down. tell me again why anyone would want them to win? is the mob that prevalent in san antonio?
What a smart young man.....where did you go to school??:clap: :clap: ;) :D

DDBooger
07-26-2007, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by bulldogman06
is the mob that prevalent in san antonio? espn reported that the two men exagerrated their ties to the mob and were hs buddies of the ref.

bulldogman06
07-26-2007, 05:47 PM
hahahaha

JR2004
07-26-2007, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by Adidas410s
you can't just point to one game. You have to look at every game that Donaghy officiated...what the outcome was...and how that ultimately influenced the playoff brackets. Anything that has taken place in the last 2 seasons...I just can't buy into any more that it was all legit. Too many variables to try to rationalize your way through it. Doesn't mean the Spurs homers won't keep trying though.

They try and they fail.

JasperDog94
07-26-2007, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by bulldogman06
...shut up, and look to next year. I already am. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm not allowed to express my displeasure on how the games are officiated? Please pardon my ignorance. I'll just shut up now.:rolleyes:

JasperDog94
07-26-2007, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by bulldogman06
people whine about the spurs, basically because of jealousy because their team isnt winning and SA is. What about those of us that just want to see good basketball and don't care who wins? Are we jealous as well for wanting everything to be above board and well officiated?

LH Panther Mom
07-26-2007, 07:26 PM
:doh: :doh: :doh: Wasn't the FINAL game played 6 weeks ago? So when was the game 3 of Spurs/Suns - 2 months??????

Bandera YaYa
07-26-2007, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by JasperDog94
........ for wanting everything to be above board and well officiated?
as do we Spur fans! Geezzzzzzzzzzzzz:rolleyes:

Gobbla2001
07-26-2007, 07:43 PM
this article lays down facts that explain how little effect the controversal ref had on the outcome of the game 3... which brings us back to where we were just after that game ended...

where have y'all been since then?

JasperDog94
07-26-2007, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by Bandera YaYa
as do we Spur fans! Geezzzzzzzzzzzzz:rolleyes: But yet anytime someone complains about the officiating of that game (especially right after the game) most (not all) of the Spurs fans on this board jump down their throats. And that's a fact.

Maroon87
07-27-2007, 12:39 AM
Originally posted by JR2004
They try and they fail.

Fail? How so? Enlighten us, Obi Wan.