Retire or Not?

[burnet44]

Retire No. 10, now?

Ralph Barrera
AMERICAN-STATESMAN


Kevin Durant will return to Austin in the next few months in a nicely tailored suit.

His family and friends will watch as No. 35 is raised to the rafters, never to be worn by another Texas basketball player.

Good for him. It really doesn't matter that I believe an athlete should spend more than seven months in college before getting his number retired. Durant apparently did enough in two semesters to get his jersey immortalized.


The University of Texas has a policy that states a men's basketball player who wins the Wooden Award — as the nation's top player — may have his jersey retired upon approval of the athletics council. Durant won the Wooden Award and every other individual player of the year award of note in his freshman year.


But this isn't about Kevin Durant. It's about the university's policy that allows honoring football players' jerseys, but only retiring the numbers of Heisman Trophy winners. That policy was amended to include Wooden Award winners in basketball after T.J. Ford led the Longhorns to the Final Four. Durant met the criteria when he became the first freshman ever to win the Wooden Award.

So the Texas athletic department has retired the numbers of the program's two Heisman Trophy winners, Earl Campbell (No. 20) and Ricky Williams (No. 34), but is apparently unable to retire the No. 10 of the most dynamic guy to ever play here, Vince Young. There are plenty of names who played yesteryear and deserve to have their jersey number raised, such as Bobby Layne, James Street and Tommy Nobis, but when you retire Kevin Durant's jersey and leave No. 10 and his 30-2 record as a starter hanging, you must change your policy.

I bet former walk-on Tien Van Nguyen won't be offended if you retire Vince's No. 10 and not his.


Texas men's athletic director DeLoss Dodds said the department will look at honoring players' jerseys, like Nobis' No. 60, but that those numbers would still be eligible for use by future players. Doesn't quite have the lasting feeling of a retired jersey that carries a legacy with it that says, "We won't lessen the impact of what you did in this by giving it to a lesser player."


Texas changed its policy to retire T.J. Ford's number.

The women's athletic department has yet to retire a jersey number, but should put softball star Cat Osterman's No. 8 at the top of their list and follow up with basketball's Wade Award winners Kamie Ethridge (No. 33) and Clarissa Davis (No. 24).




Notable unretired jerseys at Texas

Player Sport Jersey No. Years

Tommy Nobis Football 60 1963-65
Most dominating defensive player in school history.

James Street Football 16 1967-69
Went 20-0 as a starter and won a national title


Greg Swindell Baseball 21 1984-86
All-time leader in strikeouts (501) and shutouts (14)


Brooks Kieschnick Baseball 23 1991-93
Won 34 games pitching and averaged 14.3 homers per season

Clarissa Davis W-basketball 24 1985-89
Leader in career scoring average (19.9 ppg)

Kamie Ethridge W-basketball 33 1982-86
UT career assist leader (776) captained 1986 title team


Cat Osterman Softball 8 2002-04, 2006
Went 136-25; 85 shutouts are second in NCAA history

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

I think that for as little as he contributed to the school that he should receive such an honor. I'm not saying that he was a great player, but only that there are athletes who put in a lot more to building the program at Texas than what Durant did. After all, he did leave after just one year to move onto bigger and better things. It's obviously not my decision, but I think there are more deserving athletes who stuck it out in the program and tried to help build it up. I'm in no way faulting Durant for going pro, just saying...

[Bull Butter]

I think an athlete should do more for a school than just playing one year in order to have his jersey retired. All the others that have had jersey #s retired at UT have played 3 or 4 years. Is Durant THAT much better than them?

No way in hell Durant should have his jersey retired before Vince Young!:mad:

[charlesrixey]

Young did way more for his team, and also was a more transcendent player, IMO, than durant, even though i really like him and think he was deservedly the player of the year

[g$$]

Texas might want to review its policies on retiring jerseys ASAP! Something here does not smell right. Nobis, Young, & others deserve it.

[3afan]

agree with above comments -- KD was a deserving POTY, but he really didnt contribute much to the university ......... maybe a banner proclaiming his award, but not retire the #

[g$$]

Originally posted by charlesrixey
Young did way more for his team, and also was a more transcendent player, IMO, than durant, even though i really like him and think he was deservedly the player of the year

Just because VY lead Texas to a NC? Great player no doubt, but what more could Durant do other than the NC? Durant won like 7 POTY Awards & was the #2 overall pick in the NBA. VY was there 4 years (including redshirt year) & Durant only 1 year. If he had stayed longer who knows....how could he be more "transcendent"??

[zebrablue2]

Originally posted by 3afan
agree with above comments -- KD was a deserving POTY, but he really didnt contribute much to the university ......... maybe a banner proclaiming his award, but not retire the #

agree and agree..

[CHS_CG]

Durant is a good ok well a great player... but hes not a damn saint... IMO they shouldnt be retiring his jersey but to each his own I guess.:rolleyes:

[CenTexSports]

Who is this Vince Young fellow. Was he a soccer player or swimer at a Texas school? If he participates and wins the Tour of France then I might be inclined to retire his yellow jersey.

Nevermind, I remember him now. He is that guy that can't put together a coherent sentence without a great deal of help. Great athlete but a poor representative of the quality of education at the great school he attended.

[Old Dog]

Don't buy into retiring any numbers, any place, anytime. Putting a jersey up on permanent display as an honor is great, but don't take it out of use forever!

I wonder who came up with retiring Durant's number with the likes of Nobis, Campbell, Swindell, etc not being honored seems strange and thoughtless.

[Phil C]

Originally posted by Old Dog
Don't buy into retiring any numbers, any place, anytime. Putting a jersey up on permanent display as an honor is great, but don't take it out of use forever!

I wonder who came up with retiring Durant's number with the likes of Nobis, Campbell, Swindell, etc not being honored seems strange and thoughtless.

And don't forget some of the great female athletes such as CAT and Clarrissa Davis who led UT to the Women's NC and played four years. None of UT's men basketball players ever won a NC.

[charlesrixey]

Originally posted by g$$
Just because VY lead Texas to a NC? Great player no doubt, but what more could Durant do other than the NC? Durant won like 7 POTY Awards & was the #2 overall pick in the NBA. VY was there 4 years (including redshirt year) & Durant only 1 year. If he had stayed longer who knows....how could he be more "transcendent"??

Vince Young made everyone around him better

while Durant has just as much pure talent, he couldn't do what carmelo anthony did with a similar situation

i think Durant has that potential to be a leader in that mold, but he isn't yet

young has been that way since high school

[Pudlugger]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
I think that for as little as he contributed to the school that he should receive such an honor. I'm not saying that he was a great player, but only that there are athletes who put in a lot more to building the program at Texas than what Durant did. After all, he did leave after just one year to move onto bigger and better things. It's obviously not my decision, but I think there are more deserving athletes who stuck it out in the program and tried to help build it up. I'm in no way faulting Durant for going pro, just saying...

I'm with you here BBDE. He left after only a year and that did not help the program. Look at the great players from the 80's like Lew Alcindor ( Kareem Abdul Jabbar) who played all their years of eligibility. He really boosted UCLA's program as did Walt Hazzard and others before him. Every great high school basketball player wanted to go to UCLA and play for Wooden. Wooden took a dim view to players quitting to go to the NBA. Ironic that his trophy goes to such players nowadays. Oh well, just more evidence of erosion of our culture placing money and bling above academic achievement and character development. Sad.:(

[District303aPastPlayer]

Originally posted by Old Dog
I wonder who came up with retiring Durant's number with the likes of Nobis, Campbell, Swindell, etc not being honored seems strange and thoughtless.

Its the athletic policy to have the player eligible for retiring of his jersey if he wins the Wooden Award... its in the Athletic Dept Guidelines. My cousin told me about a guy.... who, no matter what, has one record that no other UT QB can say they have... 4-0 vs OU....

[burnet44]

QB Peter Gardere (1989-92) Only QB in series history with 4-0 mark as starter.

[District303aPastPlayer]

Originally posted by burnet44
Major?
just a guess

no, mid 80s

[neck_06]

T.J. Ford did more for Texas basketball than Kevin Durant.

i think vince should be retired before durant......but that's just me.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by neck_06
T.J. Ford did more for Texas basketball than Kevin Durant.

i think vince should be retired before durant......but that's just me. I agree.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by CenTexSports
He is that guy that can't put together a coherent sentence without a great deal of help. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[District303aPastPlayer]

Originally posted by burnet44
QB Peter Gardere (1989-92) Only QB in series history with 4-0 mark as starter.

thats him

[burnet44]

has there been a Blow U QB that beat TU 4 times?

[g$$]

Originally posted by charlesrixey
Vince Young made everyone around him better

while Durant has just as much pure talent, he couldn't do what carmelo anthony did with a similar situation

i think Durant has that potential to be a leader in that mold, but he isn't yet

young has been that way since high school

Carmelo Anthony had Hakeem Warrick (NBA) & Gerry McNamara plus others around him too. Durant had a bunch of youngsters after Gibson, Tucker, & Aldridge went pro. He took them to the tourney & they just got beat. It took VY until his junior year to win it all, granted he was a great one, but let's not make him a saint here either. The defense made 1 big stop otherwise there is no NC. VY did not win a state title at Madison (lost to Westlake in a classic). Lufkin then beat Westlake. Durant was & is a great player who did all he could with what he had around him. Both are team games...

TJ Ford took Texas to a Final 4 for the 1st time since Slater Martin way back in the '40s or '50s. TJ only stayed 2 years btw. But, Durant will be the better pro. TJ has injury issues, plus Durant is just that good.

[g$$]

Originally posted by burnet44
QB Peter Gardere (1989-92) Only QB in series history with 4-0 mark as starter.

Against OU yes, but check his record vs. the Aggies! Between 1984 - 1994, A&M won 10/11 games.

[Rocket Dad]

There should always be criteria to retire a college #.

1. Finish the degree plan you started
2. Own a Diploma
3. Spend a minimum of 4 years of your life enrolled and representing that college

Remember, this is COLLEGE we are talking about, not PRE-PROFESSIONAL Sports. Pro sports will retire jerzees based on the amount of $ the player made for the team. College is an institution of higher learning that also allows kids to play sports. Keep it what it was meant to be.

[burnet44]

Originally posted by Rocket Dad
There should always be criteria to retire a college #.

1. Finish the degree plan you started
2. Own a Diploma
3. Spend a minimum of 4 years of your life enrolled and representing that college

Remember, this is COLLEGE we are talking about, not PRE-PROFESSIONAL Sports. Pro sports will retire jerzees based on the amount of $ the player made for the team. College is an institution of higher learning that also allows kids to play sports. Keep it what it was meant to be.

agreed
but in reality
that wont happen

[g$$]

Originally posted by Rocket Dad
There should always be criteria to retire a college #.

1. Finish the degree plan you started
2. Own a Diploma
3. Spend a minimum of 4 years of your life enrolled and representing that college

Remember, this is COLLEGE we are talking about, not PRE-PROFESSIONAL Sports. Pro sports will retire jerzees based on the amount of $ the player made for the team. College is an institution of higher learning that also allows kids to play sports. Keep it what it was meant to be.

Agreed, but we all know better unfortunately. It is big business at the major college level.

[burnet44]

PRE-PROFESSIONAL Sports

sums it up pretty well

[charlesrixey]

Originally posted by g$$
Carmelo Anthony had Hakeem Warrick (NBA) & Gerry McNamara plus others around him too. Durant had a bunch of youngsters after Gibson, Tucker, & Aldridge went pro. He took them to the tourney & they just got beat. It took VY until his junior year to win it all, granted he was a great one, but let's not make him a saint here either. The defense made 1 big stop otherwise there is no NC. VY did not win a state title at Madison (lost to Westlake in a classic). Lufkin then beat Westlake. Durant was & is a great player who did all he could with what he had around him. Both are team games...

TJ Ford took Texas to a Final 4 for the 1st time since Slater Martin way back in the '40s or '50s. TJ only stayed 2 years btw. But, Durant will be the better pro. TJ has injury issues, plus Durant is just that good.


Hakim Warrick and G-Mac were sophomores and freshmen, too

i thought TJ was there for 3 years?

either way, durant will easily be the better pro

but i still think what VY did was more impressive

[charlesrixey]

Originally posted by Rocket Dad
There should always be criteria to retire a college #.

1. Finish the degree plan you started
2. Own a Diploma
3. Spend a minimum of 4 years of your life enrolled and representing that college

Remember, this is COLLEGE we are talking about, not PRE-PROFESSIONAL Sports. Pro sports will retire jerzees based on the amount of $ the player made for the team. College is an institution of higher learning that also allows kids to play sports. Keep it what it was meant to be.

that's something i have respect for duke for doing---only players who graduate with a BA/BS can have their number retired

obviously talking about basketball here

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by Rocket Dad
There should always be criteria to retire a college #.

1. Finish the degree plan you started
2. Own a Diploma
3. Spend a minimum of 4 years of your life enrolled and representing that college

Remember, this is COLLEGE we are talking about, not PRE-PROFESSIONAL Sports. Pro sports will retire jerzees based on the amount of $ the player made for the team. College is an institution of higher learning that also allows kids to play sports. Keep it what it was meant to be.

Agree with 1 and 2, not 3 though. If they leave early and comeback and get their degree, they should still be qualified. If a player has a chance to go pro and make millions like Vince Young, there is no point to stay an extra year for a useless degree. Come back later on down the road.

[burnet44]

Originally posted by charlesrixey
that's something i have respect for duke for doing---only players who graduate with a BA/BS can have their number retired


I didnt know that
have to have a degree
salute

yeah thats cool
very

[charlesrixey]

Originally posted by burnet44
I didnt know that
have to have a degree
salute

yeah thats cool
very

it's a shame it isn't more widely adopted

Grant Hill, Jason William, Shelden Williams, JJ Redick, Shane Battier

they all stayed for four years

very rare now for lottery picks

[injuredinmelee]

Vinces # should be retired a should Layne's. Nobis', street, and Applewhites. Durant was a huge star but not deserving of that honor.

[g$$]

Originally posted by injuredinmelee
Vinces # should be retired a should Layne's. Nobis', street, and Applewhites. Durant was a huge star but not deserving of that honor.

Applewhite in the same sentence as Nobis, Campbell, Street, Layne, etc.?? Are you kidding me - Marty Akins was a much more honored qb at Texas in the '70s. VY broke some of Akins' records. Major was a cerebral guy & easy to like, but never a star & never a championship qb on that level. He will be a better coach than he was player. Quote me on that one please.

Durant has opened doors at Texas for years to come. He came from the state of Maryland (not Willowridge like Ford) & turned down UConn, UNC, & others. He is deserving of it but should have waited a while IMO to honor him.

[g$$]

Originally posted by charlesrixey
it's a shame it isn't more widely adopted

Grant Hill, Jason William, Shelden Williams, JJ Redick, Shane Battier

they all stayed for four years

very rare now for lottery picks

Coach K refused to hang the championship banner until Christian Laettner came back & finished his degree. Coach K gets it. Duke has had some leave early lately like Maggette, Avery, etc.

Worthless degree posted above? Since when is a degree from Texas worthless even to a pro football player? The avg. NFL career lasts less than 3 years. "Not For Long" as the saying goes. Nice to fall back on later in life.

[injuredinmelee]

Originally posted by g$$
Applewhite in the same sentence as Nobis, Campbell, Street, Layne, etc.?? Are you kidding me - Marty Akins was a much more honored qb at Texas in the '70s. VY broke some of Akins' records. Major was a cerebral guy & easy to like, but never a star & never a championship qb on that level. He will be a better coach than he was player. Quote me on that one please.

Durant has opened doors at Texas for years to come. He came from the state of Maryland (not Willowridge like Ford) & turned down UConn, UNC, & others. He is deserving of it but should have waited a while IMO to honor him.

While I agree that Major did nothing as bigtime as Young or some of the others but he was the face of UT for such a long time. One hell of a guy that will be a very good coach. He inspired so many disenchanted fans back into the fold at UT.

[burnet44]

Originally posted by g$$
Coach K gets it.

Worthless degree posted above? Since when is a degree from Texas worthless even to a pro football player? The avg. NFL career lasts less than 3 years. "Not For Long" as the saying goes. Nice to fall back on later in life.

I guess not everyone gets it
I do agree

I wish it would happen more often