All-Time All NBA Team? You put it together.

[big daddy russ]

Put together a first-, second-, and third-team All-Time NBA squad (or just one, whichever you want).

Example:

FIRST TEAM
C: Manute Bol
PF: Kurt Rambis
SF: Don Nelson
SG: Walt Frazier
PG: Jason Williams

SECOND TEAM
C: Earl Boykins
PF: Spud Webb
SF: Vince Young
SG: Babe Ruth
PG: Justin Timberlake

THIRD TEAM:
...you get the picture.

[injuredinmelee]

C: Shaq
PF: Karl Malone
SF: Larry Bird
SG: Michael Jordan
PG: Magic Johnson

C: Wilt Chamberlain
PF: James Worthy
SF: Julius Erving
SG: Pistol Pete
PG: Jason Kidd

[Bull's-eye]

Replace Shaq with Hakeem Olujuwon on your first team. Olujuwon ran circles around Shaq in his career. Olujuwon is also the all time leader in block shots, who will need somebody to play defense.

[BTEXDAD]

1st Team

C - Wilt Chamberlain
PF - Karl Malone
SF - Larry Bird
SG - Michael Jordan
PG - Magic Johnson

2nd team

C - Kareem Jabbar
PF - Tim Duncan
SF - Julius Irving
SG - Jerry West
PG - Oscar Robertson

3rd team

C - Bill Russell
PF - Hakeem Olajuwon
SF - Elgin Baylor
SG - John Havlicek
PG - John Stockton

Honorable mention

Shaq
Kevin McHale
Dominique Wilkins
Isiah Thomas
Jason kidd
Bob Cousy

[neo800]

1st team
C
Uwe Blab
PF
Cherokee Parks
SF
Popeye Jones
PG
Brad Davis
SG
Morlon Wiley

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by injuredinmelee
C: Shaq
PF: Karl Malone
SF: Larry Bird
SG: Michael Jordan
PG: Magic Johnson

C: Wilt Chamberlain
PF: James Worthy
SF: Julius Erving
SG: Pistol Pete
PG: Jason Kidd

I think IM has a good list. One exception I would have is Duncan is a better PF than Malone, IMO.

[Fotbol]

C: Hakeem
PG: Majic Johnson
SG: Jordan
SF: Worthey
PF:Garnett

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by Fotbol
C: Hakeem
PG: Majic Johnson
SG: Jordan
SF: Worthey
PF:Garnett


You would really put Worthey ahead of Duncan?

[jason]

pg: anna kournikova
sg: amanda bynes
c: carrie underwood
sf: coors light twin #1
pf: coors light twin #2

head coach: jason

[TMer25]

C: Bill Russell
PF: Charles Barkley
SF: Larry Bird
SG: Michael Jordan
PG: Magic Johnson

Bench: Hakeem Olajuwon, John Stockton, John Havlicek, Julius Erving, Oscar Robertson, Kevin McHale, Karl Malone

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by TMer25
C: Bill Russell
PF: Charles Barkley
SF: Larry Bird
SG: Michael Jordan
PG: Magic Johnson

Bench: Hakeem Olajuwon, John Stockton, John Havlicek, Julius Erving, Oscar Robertson, Kevin McHale, Karl Malone

So you would not even have Duncan or Shaq on your team? Instead McHale & Havlicek?

[big daddy russ]

1st Team
C: Bill Russell
PF: Tim Duncan
SF: Larry Bird
SG: Michael Jordan
PG: Magic Johnson

2nd Team
C: Shaquille O'Neal
PF: Karl Malone
SF: Julius Erving
SG: Kobe Bryant
PG: Oscar Robertson

3rd Team
C: Wilt Chamberlain
PF: Charles Barkley
SF: Elgin Baylor
SG: Jerry West
PG: John Stockton


Honorable Mention
C: Hakeem Olajuwon/Lew Alcindor/George Mikan/Moses Malone/David Robinson/Patrick Ewing
PF: Bob Pettit/Kevin McHale/Dolph Schayes/Kevin Garnett/Wes Unseld/Dirk Nowitzki
SF: Scottie Pippen/Dominique Wilkins/John Havlicek/George Gervin
SG: Rick Barry/Clyde Drexler/Walt Frazier
PG: Isaiah Thomas/Bob Cousy/Jason Kidd/Earl Monroe/Gary Payton

[luvhoops34]

IMHO:

PG: Magic Johnson
C: Kareen Abdul Jabar
SF: George Gervin
PF: Tim Duncan
SG: Michael Jordan

[kepdawg]

First Team

PG Chris Anstey
SG Loren Myer
SF Raef La Frentz
PF Eric Montross
C Shawn Bradley

Second Team

PG Evan Eschmeyer
SG Wang Zhizhi
SF Cherokee Parks
PF Bruno Sundov
C Pavel Podkolzin

[Fotbol]

Originally posted by Macarthur
You would really put Worthey ahead of Duncan?
Worthey ran the floor, and was a better finisher than Duncan, Duncan is a better post-up player!

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by Fotbol
Worthey ran the floor, and was a better finisher than Duncan, Duncan is a better post-up player!

Huh?

Worthy is a better finisher than Duncan?! Duncan finishes at the rim as well as anyone that has ever played the game. I agree that he ran the floor better.

I just noticed you put Garnett ahead of Duncan, too. Are you serious?

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Macarthur
Huh?

Worthy is a better finisher than Duncan?! Duncan finishes at the rim as well as anyone that has ever played the game. I agree that he ran the floor better.

I just noticed you put Garnett ahead of Duncan, too. Are you serious?
I think that he was just saying that Worthy was a SF while Duncan was/is a PF. I just realized I left Worthy out of my rankings.

And I agree on the Garnett thing, but then again, this is all just opinion. Nobody's really right and nobody's really wrong.

[Macarthur]

Okay, i can see the difference in PF and SF. I prefer #'s

Duncan is a 4 and worthy is a 3.

I agree that everyone can have an opinion, but I think if you ask people in the league, I would be shocked if you found anyone that would take Garnett or Worthy over Duncan.

[KTA]

1st Team

C: Shaquille O'Neal
PF: Charles Barkley
SF: Larry Bird
SG: Michael Jordan
PG: Magic Johnson

2nd Team

C: Hakeem Olujuwon
PF: Karl Malone
SF - Julius Irving
SG: Kobe Bryant
PG: John Stockton

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Macarthur
Okay, i can see the difference in PF and SF. I prefer #'s

Duncan is a 4 and worthy is a 3.

I agree that everyone can have an opinion, but I think if you ask people in the league, I would be shocked if you found anyone that would take Garnett or Worthy over Duncan.
Yeah, but Duncan's a rare player. It's not just his skills that make him great, it's the way he approaches the game, his understanding of the game, his ability to win games whether he has a supporting cast of Parker/Ginobili/Bowen/Oberto or a supporting cast of Jason Williams/Sasha Vujacic/Jerome James/Joel Przybilla.

Personally, I believe that Garnett's the most talented PF to ever step foot on a basketball court. And it isn't even close. I'd say Rasheed Wallace is probably second, with Dirk, TD, and Malone all bringing up the back of that pack. Garnett's a very unique player, IMO a once-in-a-lifetime type of player, but he's not (and again, just my opinion) a better player than Duncan.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by big daddy russ

Personally, I believe that Garnett's the most talented PF to ever step foot on a basketball court. And it isn't even close. I'd say Rasheed Wallace is probably second, with Dirk, TD, and Malone all bringing up the back of that pack. Garnett's a very unique player, IMO a once-in-a-lifetime type of player, but he's not (and again, just my opinion) a better player than Duncan.

I'll tell you this, I agree with your points on Garnett. He is a very unique talent.

However, I think what makes Duncan great is what Garnett doesn't have. Garnett just seems to not have any intangibles. He just doesn't seem to have the ability to will his team, and I've read some folks say he's soft.

[KTA]

I would rather have KG in his prime then TD in his, yall gotta remember KG's surrounding cast has been crap

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Macarthur
I'll tell you this, I agree with your points on Garnett. He is a very unique talent.

However, I think what makes Duncan great is what Garnett doesn't have. Garnett just seems to not have any intangibles. He just doesn't seem to have the ability to will his team, and I've read some folks say he's soft.
I definitely wouldn't say he's soft. He's probably the most intense player in the league and he actually burned himself out carrying the T-Wolves night-in, night-out all those years. Went too hard too much and I think it just caught up to him this year. They flamed out, but you have to be able to pace yourself (a la TD and the Spurs... Hakeem was probably the best all-time at pacing himself) in order to peak during the playoffs.

But Duncan's intangibles and post game are superior to KG's. I'm not saying KG doesn't have any, I'm just saying Duncan's are much better.


Originally posted by KTA
I would rather have KG in his prime then TD in his, yall gotta remember KG's surrounding cast has been crap
I'd agree with everything except rather having KG than Duncan. Remember, both are still in their prime, even though they're at the tail end of it.

I think KG could wind up playing in the league longer than Duncan, though.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by KTA
I would rather have KG in his prime then TD in his, yall gotta remember KG's surrounding cast has been crap

If we were GM's in the league, I would make that trade in a nanosecond.

[KTA]

look at what Kevin has done by himself. He has had only had 2 real players while in Minnesota Stephon, and Wally Z. Putting him in that surrounding cast would just be sick.

[KTA]

one more thing, look at there stats

Tim Duncan (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3173)

Kevin Garnett (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3007)

Remember before the Spurs got Timmy they were far from crap, does anybody remember how horrible Minnesota was before Garnett? Like I said look at the stats, there is not that big of a difference between them one way or the other except free throws and 3 point shots. You dont think Garnetts stats wouldnt be better with the Spurs surrounding cast?....please

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by KTA
one more thing, look at there stats

Tim Duncan (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3173)

Kevin Garnett (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3007)

Remember before the Spurs got Timmy they were far from crap, does anybody remember how horrible Minnesota was before Garnett? Like I said look at the stats, there is not that big of a difference between them one way or the other except free throws and 3 point shots. You dont think Garnetts stats wouldnt be better with the Spurs surrounding cast?....please
No, they wouldn't. They'd go down.

Rebounding would probably stay the same. So would assists. But steals and points would go down.


And look at these stats...

Player A
23.8 PPG
17.8 RPG
5.0 BPG
2.7 APG

Player B
9.8 PPG
18.0 RPG
4.5 APG
Blocks weren't recorded

One was Artis Gilmore during the '71-'72 campaign. The other was Bill Russell during his last year, the '68-'69 season.

Which one would you rather have? One carried a 38-win team on his back through the playoffs and won the championship over a Lakers team that featured Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, and the most skilled big man to ever play the game (Wilt Chamberlain).

The other had a good career, but never made it to the Hall of Fame.

BTW, Russell was player B.

Duncan's value, much like Russell's and Scottie Pippen's, can't be measured with numbers.

[KTA]

No, they wouldn't. They'd go down.

So your telling me having another threat wouldnt open up more shot up for him? Hes been fighting double and even tripple teams most of his entire career because he has basically been a one man team. As far a s steals go Kevin is more of a agaile player then Tim is so I dont believe that one.

Tim
PPG 20.0
RPG 10.6
BPG 2.4
APG 3.4


Kevin
PPG 22.4
RPG 12.8
BPG 1.7
APG 4.1

Like I said ill take KG with the Spurs' surrounding cast. As far as Scottie Pippen goes hes one of the NBA's top 50 players all time, im pretty sure that counts for something, and im pretty sure his numbers counted

Championship season numbers

91
PPG 17.8
RPG 7.3
BPG 1.1
APG 6.2

92
PPG 21.0
RPG 7.7
BPG 1.1
APG 7.0

93
PPG 18.6
RPG 7.7
BPG 0.9
APG 6.3

96
PPG 19.4
RPG 6.5
BPG 0.7
APG 5.9

97
PPG 20.2
RPG 6.5
BPG 0.5
APG 5.7

98
PPG 19.1
RPG 5.2
BPG 1.0
APG 5.8

this guy had the numbers

On another note what was Artis Gilmore's career numbers compaired to Bill Russell's? You dont think that didnt have something to do with him not getting into the hof?

[bandera7]

1st Team
C Hakeen Olajuwon
PF Tim Duncan
SF Julius Erving
SG Michael Jordan
PG Magic Johnson

2nd Team
C Wilt Chamberlain
PF Charles Barkley
SF Larry Bird
SG Kobe Bryant
PG Oscar Robertson

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by KTA
So your telling me having another threat wouldnt open up more shot up for him? Hes been fighting double and even tripple teams most of his entire career because he has basically been a one man team. As far a s steals go Kevin is more of a agaile player then Tim is so I dont believe that one.
Huh? With more options, don't you have more people sharing the load? Kind of like when Kenyon Martin moved over to the Nuggets?

And the Spurs' defensive game plan wouldn't allow KG to roam as much. They try to funnel other teams' players into the PF to create bad shots and turnovers.


Originally posted by KTA
Tim
PPG 20.0
RPG 10.6
BPG 2.4
APG 3.4


Kevin
PPG 22.4
RPG 12.8
BPG 1.7
APG 4.1

Like I said ill take KG with the Spurs' surrounding cast. As far as Scottie Pippen goes hes one of the NBA's top 50 players all time, im pretty sure that counts for something, and im pretty sure his numbers counted

Championship season numbers

91
PPG 17.8
RPG 7.3
BPG 1.1
APG 6.2

92
PPG 21.0
RPG 7.7
BPG 1.1
APG 7.0

93
PPG 18.6
RPG 7.7
BPG 0.9
APG 6.3

96
PPG 19.4
RPG 6.5
BPG 0.7
APG 5.9

97
PPG 20.2
RPG 6.5
BPG 0.5
APG 5.7

98
PPG 19.1
RPG 5.2
BPG 1.0
APG 5.8

this guy had the numbers
He sure did. But would you consider George Gervin a better SF than Pippen?

Hell no. But Gervin had much better numbers than Pipp.


Originally posted by KTA
On another note what was Artis Gilmore's career numbers compaired to Bill Russell's? You dont think that didnt have something to do with him not getting into the hof?
Gilmore Career Numbers
18.8 PPG (Career high 24.6)
12.3 RPG (Career high 18.3)
3.4 BPG (Career high 5.0)
58.2% FG (Career high 67.0%)

Russell's Career Numbers
15.1 PPG (never averaged more than 19 PPG in a season)
22.5 RPG
4.3 APG
44.0% FG


If you're just looking at the numbers, you're failing to see the big picture. That's the same trap Danny Ainge and Isaiah Thomas fell into as personnel evaluators. That's why their teams suck so bad.

I fully believe that Carmelo Anthony will average 30 PPG, 10 RPG, and a steal and a half per game all in the same season before his career is over. But he will never... WILL NEVER... be as good as Tim Duncan.

The Spurs were good when Tim Duncan was surrounded by a 19-year-old Tony Parker (nowhere near as good as he is now), an aging Steven Smith and David Robinson, Bruce Bowen, and Antonio Daniels. Not a single All-Star on that team except Duncan.

And you know what he did to make up for that? He had the best statistical season of his life. Over 25 ppg (the only season in which he's ever attempted more than 18 shots a game), 12.7 rpg, 2.9 blocks a game, 3.7 assists, and the League MVP.

He was the number one rebounder in the NBA, number three in blocked shots, number two in scoring, and number five in minutes per game.

Oh, and San Antone won 58 games (second in the NBA, only to Sacramento) and made it to the Conference Semis only to lose to the eventual champs (LA Lakers).

But guess what? Duncan was actually better this year. That's right, the year in which he averaged 20.0 ppg, 10.6 rpg, and 2.4 bpg. If this Tim Duncan played on that team, he could've averaged 30/15/3. But he doesn't have to, so he doesn't.

That's why Garnett would score less.

Oh, and Garnett did have help. Not a lot in the past two years, but he has had help. A LOT more than Duncan's had, especially in the early-00's.

Don't even try to tell me that the team with Sam Cassell, Latrell Spreewell, Wally Szczerbiak, Olowokandi, Troy Hudson, and Trenton Hassell was worse than ANY team Duncan's ever played with. Well, any team but this one.

I don't know if you've ever played hoops, but if so, I'm sure you had a Duncan on your team. You know, the guy who was just one hell of a player and could probably have played for just about any team he wanted, but he didn't have the numbers. He may have averaged 8 rebounds (which is good in HS), 10 points, and a block (or steal) a two a game, but never really lit it up.

But somehow, some way, he always delivered in the most critical moments.

That's Duncan. It's the little things, the stuff that doesn't show up in a box score. And it's not how many he scores, it's when he scores them.

Just like LeBron last night.

Duncan dominates games night-in, night-out. KG is my favorite player, but he only dominates a box score.

[bulldogman06]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
1st Team
C: Bill Russell
PF: Tim Duncan
SF: Larry Bird
SG: Michael Jordan
PG: Magic Johnson

2nd Team
C: Shaquille O'Neal
PF: Karl Malone
SF: Julius Erving
SG: Kobe Bryant
PG: Oscar Robertson

3rd Team
C: Wilt Chamberlain
PF: Charles Barkley
SF: Elgin Baylor
SG: Jerry West
PG: John Stockton


Honorable Mention
C: Hakeem Olajuwon/Lew Alcindor/George Mikan/Moses Malone/David Robinson/Patrick Ewing
PF: Bob Pettit/Kevin McHale/Dolph Schayes/Kevin Garnett/Wes Unseld/Dirk Nowitzki
SF: Scottie Pippen/Dominique Wilkins/John Havlicek/George Gervin
SG: Rick Barry/Clyde Drexler/Walt Frazier
PG: Isaiah Thomas/Bob Cousy/Jason Kidd/Earl Monroe/Gary Payton

wow, that is my list, every player

[KTA]

Huh? With more options, don't you have more people sharing the load? Kind of like when Kenyon Martin moved over to the Nuggets?

So your telling me MJ would of scored all those points if he wouldnt of had anybody else to take the load off his hands? Like the announcers were saying about the Cavs being in foul trouble and 2 of there defensive specialist players were in they were saying you dont want two guys in there that they dont even have to worry about guarding. Its been proven over and over again, if you have one key player and hes surrounded by trash 1: hes going to take the load of the shots (all be it most of the time they are not good shots) and 2: if you have guys who can contribute it opens up the easy shots for everybody else, including your star player.


And the Spurs' defensive game plan wouldn't allow KG to roam as much. They try to funnel other teams' players into the PF to create bad shots and turnovers.

KG in his prime was a BEAST, im pretty sure he wouldnt of had any problem adjusting to it, or for that matter them adjusting to him.


He sure did. But would you consider George Gervin a better SF than Pippen?

Hell no. But Gervin had much better numbers than Pipp.


Hell no he wasnt, BUT he was the STAR player on that team, look who Pippen had to share the ball with in his career Jordan, Rodman, Barkley, Olajuwon, Clyde the glide of course his numbers aint going to be the same!

Gilmore Career Numbers
18.8 PPG (Career high 24.6)
12.3 RPG (Career high 18.3)
3.4 BPG (Career high 5.0)
58.2% FG (Career high 67.0%)

Pippens Career Numbers
16.07PPG (Career high 21.41 )
6.36 RPG (Career high 8.08)
0.80 BPG (Career high 1.23)
47.3% FG(Career high 52.0)

Like I said considering the era he played in, and with the players he played with thats pretty damn impressive!


I fully believe that Carmelo Anthony will average 30 PPG, 10 RPG, and a steal and a half per game all in the same season before his career is over. But he will never... WILL NEVER... be as good as Tim Duncan.

If you cant tell the game is evolving just look around the league. Look at what that Carmelo has done to the nuggets. Do you remember how horrible the nuggets were before Carmelo got there? And please dont go "well hes got AI, and Camby...etc" Look at the Spurs' roster they are full of veteran leadership with Finley, Horry, Berry, and Duncan. Where as Melo has AI, and a has been, never will be Marcus Camby. Plus they are a different type of player at different positions. TD is a Power foward, as melo is a strong foward, plus TD has 3 inchs, and 30 more pounds on him, and look at what melo is doing. So to say he wont be better is a biased opinion at best.


Not a single All-Star on that team except Duncan.

Yeah your right David Robinson never went to a allstar game, nor did he represent team usa:doh:


And you know what he did to make up for that? He had the best statistical season of his life. Over 25 ppg (the only season in which he's ever attempted more than 18 shots a game), 12.7 rpg, 2.9 blocks a game, 3.7 assists, and the League MVP.


But guess what? Duncan was actually better this year. That's right, the year in which he averaged 20.0 ppg, 10.6 rpg, and 2.4 bpg. If this Tim Duncan played on that team, he could've averaged 30/15/3. But he doesn't have to, so he doesn't.

ummmmmmm im not the smartest man in the world, but im pretty sure those first stats were better then then 2nd ones, so how is that better? oh yeah, and why wouldnt he want to? Wouldnt that help his team out? Guess now your saying hes not a team player (just b/s'n, but you get my point), I dont think he can anymore because hes getting older, and the game is not the same as it was when he first entered the league, like I said the game is evolving.


Don't even try to tell me that the team with Sam Cassell, Latrell Spreewell, Wally Szczerbiak, Olowokandi, Troy Hudson, and Trenton Hassell was worse than ANY team Duncan's ever played with. Well, any team but this one.

Lets see
Sam Cassell - What has he done besides when he was with Hakeem
Latrell Sprewell - dont even get me started on this one
Wally Z - look at his stats :weeping: hes never averaged over 20 ppg
Olowokandi - same with him, wonder why they both got traded to boston
Troy Hundson - hahaha
Trenton Hassell - your joking right


I don't know if you've ever played hoops, but if so, I'm sure you had a Duncan on your team. You know, the guy who was just one hell of a player and could probably have played for just about any team he wanted, but he didn't have the numbers. He may have averaged 8 rebounds (which is good in HS), 10 points, and a block (or steal) a two a game, but never really lit it up.

But somehow, some way, he always delivered in the most critical moments.

That's Duncan. It's the little things, the stuff that doesn't show up in a box score. And it's not how many he scores, it's when he scores them.


I never said Tim wasnt good, and couldnt play for any team, I just said KG in his PRIME was better. When has KG ever been in the situation to show his skills, his teams have been horrendous, where as Tim came right into a good team that had veteran leadership (Smith, Robinson, Bowen) never had to do any real rebuilding.


Duncan dominates games night-in, night-out. KG is my favorite player, but he only dominates a box score.

No Duncan plays on a team with GOOD talented players on his team with veteran leadership. Dont believe me just look at there rosters

Timberwolves (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/roster?team=min)

Spurs (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/roster?team=sas)

Im done

[bulldogman06]

KG may have had more talent that Duncan, but there is no way i would ever consider him better. on a side note, duncan never punched out his own teammate either. oh, and duncan has done more for the spurs that maybe any single other player has done for a franchise. there are a few other considerations, but duncan is up there

[big daddy russ]

Haha, this is fun.

Originally posted by KTA
So your telling me MJ would of scored all those points if he wouldnt of had anybody else to take the load off his hands? Like the announcers were saying about the Cavs being in foul trouble and 2 of there defensive specialist players were in they were saying you dont want two guys in there that they dont even have to worry about guarding. Its been proven over and over again, if you have one key player and hes surrounded by trash 1: hes going to take the load of the shots (all be it most of the time they are not good shots) and 2: if you have guys who can contribute it opens up the easy shots for everybody else, including your star player.
That's exactly what I'm saying. That's why KG's point totals would go down.



Originally posted by KTA
KG in his prime was a BEAST, im pretty sure he wouldnt of had any problem adjusting to it, or for that matter them adjusting to him.

You're absolutely right. And KG's still an absolute beast.

He wouldn't have had any problems whatsoever adjusting to the Spurs' system.

He's one of those rare players who could excel in absolutely any system, whether it's an up-tempo system, the Spurs' inside-out halfcourt sets, or the Princeton offense.



Originally posted by KTA
If you cant tell the game is evolving just look around the league. Look at what that Carmelo has done to the nuggets. Do you remember how horrible the nuggets were before Carmelo got there?
Yeah, I do. Then they picked up Nene, Melo, and Marcus Camby all in the same year and started making the playoffs. The year after that, they added Andre Miller and K-Mart and became the team they were at the start of this year.



Originally posted by KTA
And please dont go "well hes got AI, and Camby...etc" Look at the Spurs' roster they are full of veteran leadership with Finley, Horry, Berry, and Duncan. Where as Melo has AI, and a has been, never will be Marcus Camby. Plus they are a different type of player at different positions. TD is a Power foward, as melo is a strong foward, plus TD has 3 inchs, and 30 more pounds on him, and look at what melo is doing. So to say he wont be better is a biased opinion at best.
No, it's not a biased opinion at all.

And I know you're trying to make a point, but you're underestimating Melo's supporting cast and overestimating Duncan's... especially his old ones.

AI's as has-been???? Please. Maybe on the downside of his career, but still an All-Star caliber player. He just averaged 26 points, 7 assists, and two steals a game.

And Camby's one of the five best centers in the league. Just won the Defensive Player of the year. 11.2 ppg, 11.7 rebounds, and 3.3 blocks. And you think Camby's also has-been???

Now you've got me wondering. Do you actually watch games or do you just read about them in the Sunday morning papers?

Throw in JR Smith (who I'll admit was injured for a month or two), and Nene, that's not a bad team. At all. That supporting cast is ten times as good as any supporting cast Duncan's ever had before, except the one he had in the '98-'99 campaign. No other even comes close.

And why would it be biased to say Melo won't be as good as Duncan? Melo's not the type of player who can single-handedly take a team and make them a 55-win team year-in, year-out. At this point in his life (age 23), Duncan was light years ahead of Melo. Duncan was in the MVP discussions from his first year in the league and has been a first-team NBA forward every year except for last year ("relegated" to second team).



Originally posted by KTA
Yeah your right David Robinson never went to a allstar game, nor did he represent team usa:doh:
Robinson's last All-Star game was in 2001, and he barely played in the '00 and '01 games. He was not an All-Star in '02. He was just a long, defensive presence in the middle. He was Francisco Elson with a brain.



Originally posted by KTA
ummmmmmm im not the smartest man in the world, but im pretty sure those first stats were better then then 2nd ones, so how is that better?
That's what I said. The '02 stats were better than this year's. But he was better this year. A lot better.

And please, enough with the stats. If you're want to prove me wrong on this one, show me that you actually know the game of basketball. Don't just say that Duncan averaged five more points, three more rebounds, and an extra block a game back in '02. Tell me why he was better back then.

Personally, I think he did a better job of putting the ball in places his team could get to it on defense. Instead of putting the ball in the stands and getting credit for the block, he changed the shot and turned it into a rebound or a turnover.

On offense, he ran the team as much as TP. They ran an inside-out offense half the time and Duncan would use the attention to kick it to a cutter, an open shooter, back to the point, or to someone who was in a position to make something happen.

Back in '02, the Spurs didn't have an offensive game plan. They only had about three plays they ran on a consisent basis, and their O consisted of passing it to Duncan and letting him make a play.

He was also counted on more to clean up the glass and deflect shots, instead of just changing them like he does now.


Originally posted by KTA
Lets see
Sam Cassell - What has he done besides when he was with Hakeem
Latrell Sprewell - dont even get me started on this one
Wally Z - look at his stats :weeping: hes never averaged over 20 ppg
Olowokandi - same with him, wonder why they both got traded to boston
Troy Hundson - hahaha
Trenton Hassell - your joking right

You haven't followed basketball very long, have you?

Cassell- Kenny "the Jet" Smith was the starting PG on the Rockets' championship teams, not Cassell. Cassell was actually the Rockets' Sixth Man, a score-first, high-energy PG. His first starting gig at PG came in Phoenix his fourth year in the league. Came into his own as an All-Star-caliber PG with the New Jersey Nets in the late-90's. Has averaged 18+ ppg eight different seasons, 6+ apg seven different seasons, and was shunned from the All-Star game his best statistical season, 99-00, when he averaged 18.6 points and 9.0 assists per game (second in the league, only to Gary Payton) for the small-market Milwaukee Bucks. Still made honorable mention All-NBA, though. And don't ask me how he was passed up for Starbury on the third team. I'll never figure that one out as long as I live.

Latrell Spreewell- Well, you were looking for a talented supporting cast. The only wing Duncan's ever had that was as good as Spree is Manu, and that's a recent development.

Wally- What is it with you and that stats? Wally was a shooter. There's only so much room in the lane. They had him because they needed someone who could spread the floor. Come on, if you knew anything about these players you'd know that's what they needed. Spree was a slasher and Cassell was a penetrator. Wally's always been a solid offensive player and a great shooter, and someone they knew they could count on whenever they needed to kick it outside and keep defenses from consistently collapsing around their guards and KG.

Olowokandi- Traded after Spree and Cassell bailed. You said it yourself, they needed another option. Ricky Davis, a talented headcase, was the guy that Genius McHale brought in.

Troy Hudson- Used to be one of the best sixth men in the NBA. At one time averaged over 20 points per 40 minutes and is a great energy guy. Perfect "Vinny the Microwave"-type of player coming off the bench.

Trenton Hassell- Again, you don't follow this stuff much, do you? Hassell's one of the best perimeter defenders in the league. He may not be Bruce Bowen just yet, but he's not far behind.


Originally posted by KTA
I never said Tim wasnt good, and couldnt play for any team, I just said KG in his PRIME was better. When has KG ever been in the situation to show his skills, his teams have been horrendous, where as Tim came right into a good team that had veteran leadership (Smith, Robinson, Bowen) never had to do any real rebuilding.
They did a WHOLE lot of rebuilding around Duncan, you just never saw it because they've never won fewer than 53 games since he's been in the league.

Here are their starters from their '99 championship team:
PG: Avery Johnson (age 34)
SG: Mario Elie (age 35)
SF: Sean Elliott (age 31)
PF: Timmy (age 22)
C: David Robinson (age 34)

'03 Spurs:
PG: Parker (age 20)
SG: Manu Ginobili (age 25)
SF: Bowen (age 32)
PF: Duncan
C: Robinson (age 38)

You see what just happened? That's right, they rebuilt. Robinson retired after this year and the only parts that have changed since have been at C (from Rasho to Nazi to Oberto) and the bench.

Those two championship teams are two entirely different teams, and not just because of the players. That '99 squad was by far the best of the Spurs' championship teams so far. It's not even close. This year's team is the best since, but that '99 squad only lost two games on their way to the NBA title and absolutely dominated what was back then called "the All-Star Team" (the Portland TrailBlazers... SA swept them in the Conference Finals).


Originally posted by KTA
No Duncan plays on a team with GOOD talented players on his team with veteran leadership. Dont believe me just look at there rosters

Timberwolves (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/roster?team=min)

Spurs (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/roster?team=sas)

Oh I believe you. This supporting cast is good. Real good. About as good as the supporting cast on the '04 'Wolves.

[KTA]

AI's as has-been????

I was talking about Camby, AI is/was a stud

thats the only correction I have, I see your like me and will argue until your red in the face. Like I said im done, two different opinions coming from two people who are stubborn as hell....not stubborn? you must be to argue with me until 2:30 in the morning.:p This was like a bad day of mike and mike.

Well atleast im glad you finally admited KG is better then TD

big daddy russ
KTA you sure was right, im glad you opened my eyes and showed me the light. Keving Garnett is head over heels better then Tim Duncan....thank you KTA

No problem russ any time;)

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by KTA
I was talking about Camby, AI is/was a stud

thats the only correction I have, I see your like me and will argue until your red in the face. Like I said im done, two different opinions coming from two people who are stubborn as hell....not stubborn? you must be to argue with me until 2:30 in the morning.:p This was like a bad day of mike and mike.

Well atleast im glad you finally admited KG is better then TD

big daddy russ

No problem russ any time;)
Haha. Good stuff.