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View Full Version : Another Barry Bonds Issue, or Another Black and White issue, u b the Judge.......



Fotbol
05-23-2007, 07:51 AM
The results will annoy a lot of white people, a predictable response to which some black folks will respond: Good.
This article is provided courtesy of our partner eurweb.com


SEATTLE -- A poll by ABC News and ESPN shows that black and white Americans view Barry Bonds and his assault on Hank Aaron's home run record differently.


The results will annoy a lot of white people, a predictable response to which some black folks will respond: Good.


According to the poll, black baseball fans are nearly three times as likely as white fans to root for Bonds to break Aaron's record (74% to 28%). Only 37% of blacks believe Bonds used steroids, while 76% of whites think he did.


46% of blacks say Bonds has been treated unfairly versus just 25% of whites. Of those fans of both races who think Bonds has been treated unfairly, only one percent of whites attribute that unfairness to race compared to 27% of blacks.


There has to be something we can learn from this, even if we prefer to stubbornly sit inside our impenetrable worldview bailiwicks, where opposing opinions are only the products of stupidity, immorality or greed.


So what do these poll results mean?


They say less about Bonds than they do about us. As a subject who illustrates racial divides, Bonds is largely incidental, much like O.J. Simpson was in 1995. These poll results reveal more about how differently whites and blacks view the context of an unfolding historical event with a controversial black man as the main character.


First off, few blacks really believe Bonds never took steroids, despite 36% saying so in the poll (call it an overwhelming, though unscientific, impression gathered from various conversations). Savvy poll respondents often don't say what they think. They break down the question and answer in a way intended to support their agenda.


If a magical being suddenly appeared and announced he would produce irrefutable proof of whether Bonds did or didn't take performance-enhancing drugs, how many of that 36% would rush their opinion to a Vegas bookie? Please.


This isn't to say the 36% is stupid or full of it. Their intention isn't to answer the question. It's to protest the process by which Bonds became a pariah. By announcing that, in effect, they won't believe Bonds took steroids until they see a needle sticking out of his rear end with their own two eyes, they are sending a message -- one of racial solidarity, one that asserts their belief in the continuing prevalence of institutionalized racism and one of stubborn resistance to a system that has railroaded so many in the past.


And if that tweaks some white people, so be it.


Remember how the Simpson verdict revealed a similar opinion divide based on race? The post-trial celebration in the black community was far more about Simpson beating an oppressive system than guilt or innocence.


To those who believe that perspective irrational, watch the HBO documentary "The Trials of Darryl Hunt," about a young black man wrongfully convicted of rape and murder in 1984 who spent 19 years in jail, 10 of which came after he had been cleared by DNA evidence. It will make you cry.


When many white people see a mountain of evidence against Bonds, they say "guilty" without reservation. Then they consider how much steroids bother them, factor in Bonds' loutish personality and decide their feelings toward his home run chase. When black people see the same thing, they question the messenger and can't help but notice another black guy has been singled out for ostracism.


They see a lone black man, even if he is the star of stars, being forced in his greatest moment of glory to shoulder nearly all the outrage for baseball's massive steroids problem. That racial component defines the context for them when they fill out their questionnaire.


Again, people know what's up with opinion polls, and they certainly are not above using their vote to manipulate the results in order to voice their dissenting worldview.


White people also do this. Here's an example: A 2000 Mason-Dixon poll found 66% of whites believe the Confederate flag symbolizes Southern heritage and just 21% describe it as a symbol of racism, while 77% of blacks believe the flag is a symbol of racism, and nine percent characterize it as a symbol of Southern heritage.


As a child of the South, I will tell you -- without an iota of doubt -- the vast majority of white folks who celebrate and support the display of the Confederate flag are racists. They use the politically safe "Southern heritage" defense to hide their primary motivation: to intimidate and aggrieve black folks.


Clearly, black and white folks still have a lot to work out.


As for Bonds, it's nearly impossible to find a kind word written or said about him. He's probably the greatest hitter of all time, but to many (including me) his homer record will be tainted.


Still, instead of merely smirking over these poll results, it might be meaningful for white people to shake off their bad feelings about Bonds and, if only for a moment, entertain an alternative view of the entire, awkward spectacle.


Who knows? Once outside our impenetrable worldview bailiwicks, we might learn something.




--------------------------------

LH Panther Mom
05-23-2007, 08:02 AM
I'm curious to know if there was a similar study done about Mark McGwire? :thinking: :thinking:

3afan
05-23-2007, 08:03 AM
those poll results were predictible ............ but if BB was white then then numbers would be reversed: 37% of whites would believe he used steroids, while 76% of blacks would think he did.

Thats just the way it is

BTEXDAD
05-23-2007, 08:27 AM
I personally feel that all of the amphetamines used in 60's and 70's (and still today) could be considered "performance enhancing", at least on a short term basis. So the use of steroids doesn't bother me that much.
Barry Bonds is a jerk. That's the main reason I don't like the fact that he's gonna break the record. I hope Ken Griffey, or A-Rod can stay healthy and break bonds' record in the future.


Don't know why some racist people want to make this into a black white issue. Hank Aaron has said he won't be at the park to see Bonds break his record (see site below).
Hank is black if anyone is looking.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18699827/

Snyder_TigerFan
05-23-2007, 08:30 AM
Back when McGwire was chasing the single season homerun record, steroids were not an issue in baseball like they are now. Had they been, I think the positive publicity would have be different.

For myself, it's not a black/white thing, it more that the record is tainted with the steroid scandal. One side of me wants to see him break the record, but the other side of me looks at it a little different because steroids are/were so prevelant.

Take Tiger Woods for instance. I'd like to see him break all of the records in golf. He has done it with respect for the game and a clean record. Can the same be said for Barry Bonds?

burnet44
05-23-2007, 08:32 AM
I konw these things to be true

Ruth did it on hot dogs and beer

Aaron did it with class (he is black btw)

neither of the 2 above mentioned
were ever questioned

there is a reason Bonds looks bad
its Barry

Barry has no one else to blame but himself

why is Aaron a hero and Bonds aint
both are balck

It has nothing to do with race
it has everything to do with perception by the media

Mac Palmero Sosa are not close to the record
Barry will break it

If Mac Palmero Sosa were close would the poll say
that 36% of hispanics or whites think they clean

and as indicated in the poll very unscientific

I disagree
Aaron is black so is Barry
Bonds is breaking a black mans record since the topic is on race
where was all the hoopla when Aaron was breaking Ruth's records?
Yes I know he recieved death threats

But to think that Bonds because he is black is getting flack is
wrong

the next post will be Barry dont get along with the media
so he is being persecutited (sp) which is baloney

Its kinda like when athlets say its not about the money
its about the money

Aaron represented himself, his team, his family, and the league with class

Barry is just all about Barry
He cries when the media asks him questions
then cries saying they are not pubing his chase enough

me I dont really care if he breaks it or not

the one telling tale

Aaron wont be there
that speaks volumes to me

fire away

DDBooger
05-23-2007, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
I'm curious to know if there was a similar study done about Mark McGwire? :thinking: :thinking: excellent point

burnet44
05-23-2007, 09:01 AM
here is a factual study

Hall of Fame ballots

McGwire had 128 votes (23.5%)

so

76.5 % of the baseball writers figured he was guilty?

Ill bet Barry gets more votes than that

DDBooger
05-23-2007, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by burnet44
here is a factual study

Hall of Fame ballots

McGwire had 128 votes (23.5%)

so

76.5 % of the baseball writers figured he was guilty?

Ill bet Barry gets more votes than that speculative but possible, the legacy of baseball may depend on it. if the career homerun leader is never convicted of it or never fails a drug test than despite our best intuition how can they punish him? Big Mac got hurt by his lack of cooperation when questioned. shame, i loved watching that dude CRUSH the ball.

burnet44
05-23-2007, 09:41 AM
all time hit leader isnt in Rose

Bonds will make it

MLB wont allow 2 of the est records to be left out

Barry is in
and he deserves it
not for the homer record
multiple MVPs (actually no one else to challange him in some years)
All Star many years

Id vote for him on total career
NOT HR RECORD

but it dont matter huh
as long as your in huh

JasperDog94
05-23-2007, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by DDBooger
speculative but possible, the legacy of baseball may depend on it. if the career homerun leader is never convicted of it or never fails a drug test than despite our best intuition how can they punish him? The same way they punish Pete Rose. Pete did nothing as a player to be banned from the HOF. His transgressions were as a manager, yet he's still banned. I know it's not the same thing, but note that nobody's saying Pete's not getting in because of his skin color.

It's got nothing to do with race.

DDBooger
05-23-2007, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by JasperDog94
The same way they punish Pete Rose. Pete did nothing as a player to be banned from the HOF. His transgressions were as a manager, yet he's still banned. I know it's not the same thing, but note that nobody's saying Pete's not getting in because of his skin color.

It's got nothing to do with race. Pete Rose tarnished the game of baseball. THE SIN OF ALL SINS in baseball is gambling on it! Since the 'Sox incidents eons ago to today! then again you don't see rally's or marches defending bonds. as the person who critiqued the survey said, and as I have learned its called VALIDITY. when people realized the purpose their answers reflected an agenda. unfortunately their will always be black and white.

JasperDog94
05-23-2007, 09:55 AM
I can promise you this: If it were McGuire going for this record or Sosa going for this record, I'd have just as much disdain for them.

DDBooger
05-23-2007, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by JasperDog94
I can promise you this: If it were McGuire going for this record or Sosa going for this record, I'd have just as much disdain for them. AGREED

burnet44
05-23-2007, 10:01 AM
True that

I guess we all agree

Its Cheating not skin color

CHEATING is unforgivable
ask the WHITE SOX
they were white guys
got banished

for CHEATING

people see past skin color

themsu97
05-23-2007, 10:12 AM
true,,, cheating and Bonds are the key... Aaron holds the record and he is black so race has nothing to do with the record... as for MacGuire, not sure that he took steroids but he did take Andros which is as close to steroids as a person can get and it is now illegal...
Bonds' problem is Bonds and he needs to get over himself and as one has already said...Aaron is not going to be there when Barroid breaks the record and that SPEAKS VOLUMES imo

Reds fan
05-23-2007, 10:25 AM
The ironic part is that the majority of blacks are supporting Bonds to break Aaron's record despite the issue of steroids. I find it remarkable that this would occur as Aaron was and is a much better ambassador for the game.

DDBooger
05-23-2007, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by Reds fan
The ironic part is that the majority of blacks are supporting Bonds to break Aaron's record despite the issue of steroids. I find it remarkable that this would occur as Aaron was and is a much better ambassador for the game. not denying what you are saying but can you provide the study that suggests that? I would love to critique the methods in which they collected their data and how the survey was set up. it must be from the smaller and smaller proportion of african americans that are actually following the game.

Reds fan
05-23-2007, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by DDBooger
not denying what you are saying but can you provide the study that suggests that? I would love to critique the methods in which they collected their data and how the survey was set up. it must be from the smaller and smaller proportion of african americans that are actually following the game.

That's what I took from the article that was posted above to start this thread.

DDBooger
05-23-2007, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by Reds fan
That's what I took from the article that was posted above to start this thread. my bad, i dislike not having the methodology of how polls or surveys are conducted. for all we know they stood outside a Nation of islam building and got their opinions lol. they should have applied a white player and even a hispanic player to gauge the level of validity for the study. sometimes pre-existing biases can cloud if not skew the findings. if true its a shame people can't see past black and white on a issue of right and wrong

Reds fan
05-23-2007, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by DDBooger
my bad, i dislike not having the methodology of how polls or surveys are conducted. for all we know they stood outside a Nation of islam building and got their opinions lol. they should have applied a white player and even a hispanic player to gauge the level of validity for the study. sometimes pre-existing biases can cloud if not skew the findings. if true its a shame people can't see past black and white on a issue of right and wrong

Agreed on that!:(

crzyjournalist03
05-23-2007, 11:04 AM
well, to throw a little kink into the wagon, back in 1998 things were a little different.

When Mark McGwire broke the record, most people (white and black) wanted Sammy Sosa to break it. There was already some disdain for McGwire because of the Andro or whatever it was he admitted to using. Sosa had charisma that people loved. It didn't matter what race either of them were, and you rarely heard mention of it. People just liked Sammy because of his personality.

themsu97
05-23-2007, 11:29 AM
that is true journalist... people did not really start to embrace McGuire until he and Sammy started making appearances together and then Sammy embraced McGuire...
people need to quit making this a blcak/white issue because it is not... it is a Barry is a giant JACKHOLE and nobody really likes him... anybody else, they would embrace... Jr, A-Rod, Pujols, anyone else

DDBooger
05-23-2007, 11:47 AM
i had hoped Griffey would be breaking these records.

JasperDog94
05-23-2007, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by DDBooger
i had hoped Griffey would be breaking these records. If he had stayed healthy he probably would have.:(

burnet44
05-23-2007, 11:54 AM
true

DDBooger
05-23-2007, 11:57 AM
dude was my favorite growing up, along with Will Clark. both had the prettiest swing(forgive my use of the word pretty) :)

JasperDog94
05-23-2007, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by DDBooger
dude was my favorite growing up, along with Will Clark. both had the prettiest swing(forgive my use of the word pretty) :) I think you just broke a Man Law.:mad: :evilgrin:

burnet44
05-23-2007, 12:25 PM
yeah ya did

DDBooger
05-23-2007, 12:30 PM
:( i apologized:o

burnet44
05-23-2007, 12:32 PM
We accept
we all slip now and then

salute

the Brotherhood is proud of you

Fotbol
05-23-2007, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by burnet44
We accept
we all slip now and then

salute

the Brotherhood is proud of you
It's the women, they have infiltrated the Brotherhood,
Next we will be watching Lifetime:doh:

JasperDog94
05-23-2007, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by DDBooger
:( i apologized:o Next time substitute the word "sweet" for "that other word I'm not gonna type". Jr has the "sweetest" swing in all of baseball.

DDBooger
05-23-2007, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by JasperDog94
Next time substitute the word "sweet" for "that other word I'm not gonna type". Jr has the "sweetest" swing in all of baseball. noted ;)

Old Tiger
05-23-2007, 01:16 PM
There is a reason Hank and Bud won't be at the games where he could possibly hit the record breaker

big daddy russ
05-23-2007, 01:18 PM
I haven't read the whole thread, but Mike Wilbon and Tony Kornheiser talked about this exact thing on PTI last week. Neither thought it was a race issue, but rather just a difference of culture, and I agree completely.

It's like the biggest, proudest, loudest Mexican family you know moving into Southlake (or any suburbs), building a house, and painting it all those bright colors. 75% of Hispanics in the city would support that family's decision to paint their house lime green, yellow, and pink. Meanwhile, 75% of white people (and the homeowner's association) are completely against the idea.

The Mexicans think it looks good. The white people don't. It's all in the way you see things.

burnet44
05-23-2007, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by JasperDog94
Next time substitute the word "sweet" for "that other word I'm not gonna type". Jr has the "sweetest" swing in all of baseball.

sweet is wrong

and the thread is hijacked lol

use the words, best, good, Bad arse, awesome, use manly words

sweet?
sweet?

In my best Jim Mora

Playoffs?
Playoffs?

are you talking playoffs?

DDBooger
05-23-2007, 02:23 PM
how about aesthetically pleasing? trade feminine for fancy! lol

burnet44
05-23-2007, 02:36 PM
hurl

JasperDog94
05-23-2007, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by DDBooger
how about aesthetically pleasing? trade feminine for fancy! lol You're walking a thin line Booger.:twitch: