Suns' Stoudemire, Diaw suspended for Game 5

[kepdawg]

Suns' Stoudemire, Diaw suspended for Game 5

Spurs' Horry gets two games for hard foul on Nash

06:04 PM CDT on Tuesday, May 15, 2007

Associated Press

PHOENIX – Phoenix center Amare Stoudemire and teammate Boris Diaw have been suspended for one game for leaving the bench after Robert Horry's hard foul of Steve Nash in Game 4 of the Suns' Western Conference semifinal against San Antonio.

Horry was suspended for two games after knocking Nash into the scorer's table with 18 seconds remaining in the Suns' 104-98 victory in San Antonio Monday night that evened the best-of-seven series 2-2.

Game 5 is Wednesday night in Phoenix.

Stoudemire, the Suns' leading postseason scorer at 23.9 points a game, and Diaw left the bench after Horry's foul, but were contained by coaches shortly after stepping onto the court.

[JR2004]

This league just hit a new low.

Heck even noted Spurs apologist Steve Kerr said that if they got suspended that Duncan and Bowen should get the same treatment for leaving the bench in the 2nd quarter...Apparently the weasel in New York decided to overlook that. Oh well it'll make the Suns game 5 victory sweeter to win this short-handed.

[GreenMachine]

Let the :bigcry: commence :D Actually, I see this hurting the Spurs and providing extra motivation for the Suns. I want everyone playing full strength so at the end, there are no excuses.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Man, this is some bullcrap. :mad:

[dogdad]

go spurs!
this will assure them of winning game 5
then close it out in SA

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by dogdad
go spurs!
this will assure them of winning game 5
then close it out in SA
Spurs easily wins game 5. Amare goes for 50 in game 6 and forces a game 7

[GreenMachine]

Originally posted by Emerson1
Spurs easily wins game 5. Amare goes for 50 in game 6 and forces a game 7 Not...on both counts.

[KTA]

this is some serious bullcrap, I want the spurs to win the series, but not like this.

[Rabbit'93]

Originally posted by KTA
this is some serious bullcrap, I want the spurs to win the series, but not like this. wasn't there a rule a while back about not posting swear words even if you put symbols to disguise some of the letters?:confused:
Suns win in 6

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by Rabbit'93
wasn't there a rule a while back about not posting swear words even if you put symbols to disguise some of the letters?:confused:
Suns win in 6

1). Keep it clean.
Vulgarity, profanity, sexually explicit/sexually suggestive language and/or pictures, and racial remarks will not be tolerated. Your posts will be monitored and evaluated based on both language and context, so even if you substitute characters for certain letters, it may be the MEANING that counts.

[Bull Butter]

I expected Horry and Diaw to get popped. Amare is a shocker because he didn't really do anything and because of all the "he was just checking in" apologists.

[KTA]

I never did read the rules (never had the problem of substuting things on other message forums, but whatever), but since its THAT big of a deal to some posters where they gotta go out of there way to go tattle tail I edited it. What ever happend to "Hey KTA you might want to change your post because you dont want to get in trouble with the mods because you cant put that on here"...I guess that would of been too cool of you to do.

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by KTA
I never did read the rules (never had the problem of substuting things on other message forums, but whatever), but since its THAT big of a deal to some posters where they gotta go out of there way to go tattle tail I edited it. What ever happend to "Hey KTA you might want to change your post because you dont want to get in trouble with the mods because you cant put that on here"...I guess that would of been too cool of you to do.
People are to big of babies. I like to be annoying and call it out when they do it, not cry to a mod. :)

[kaorder1999]

i didnt complain...i just posted the rule that someone was asking about

[eagles_victory]

guys lay off kta im proud of him simply bc hes not calling racism about these suspensions that in itself is progress

[smustangs]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
guys lay off kta im proud of him simply bc hes not calling racism about these suspensions that in itself is progress

haha thats great here we go again

[ASUFrisbeeStud]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
guys lay off kta im proud of him simply bc hes not calling racism about these suspensions that in itself is progress

haha

That might start something...

[KTA]

im not going to go any further then saying I have a comment, but cant say it with out using a few $, @, !'s

Racist ********:D

[smustangs]

Originally posted by KTA
im not going to go any further then saying I have a comment, but cant say it with out using a few $, @, !'s

Racist ********:D

you broke a rule you broke a rule im telling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Phil C]

All right now everyone! CALM DOWN! :mad:

The League Office has spoken and we must accept the punishments. Remember they are very consistant and fair and impartial with their punishments so let's get with the NBA program!

:mad:

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by Phil C
All right now everyone! CALM DOWN! :mad:

The League Office has spoken and we must accept the punishments. Remember they are very consistant and fair and impartial with their punishments so let's get with the NBA program!

:mad:
No they aren't.

[awizzy]

the nba is going to hace to change this rule some how....the horry throws a cheap shot and the suns get punished worse...its not fair...o well

[Phil C]

Originally posted by Emerson1
No they aren't.

I didn't like losing Horry for two games which could cost the Spurs the next two games but I accept the punishment as administered fairly and impartially. We must accept what the League says. It is called getting with the program which is very good and wise.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Phil C
I didn't like losing Horry for two games which could cost the Spurs the next two games but I accept the punishment as administered fairly and impartially. We must accept what the League says. It is called getting with the program which is very good and wise.

How is it fair that Horry took a cheap shot on a Suns players and started the entire fiasco and the San Antonio Spurs get rewarded for it by having the largest point producer on the other team have to sit out for doing nothing in the altercation?

[smustangs]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
How is it fair that Horry took a cheap shot on a Suns players and started the entire fiasco and the San Antonio Spurs get rewarded for it by having the largest point producer on the other team have to sit out for doing nothing in the altercation?

i agree its a bunch of bs if you ask me

[bandera7]

1st of all, I really dont think Horry meant to check him so hard, I think he was going to foul him and Nash gave a burst of speed to try and avoid the foul, and Horry wasnt really expecting it, and they collided. He was kind of scolding himself after the play and then had to defend himself. What in his history makes everybody think that he is now somehow a violent person?

2nd, the announcers called this out when it happened. It isnt a matter of fair or not, if you leave the bench during a problem you get punished. The announcers made the comment that the Suns just made a very young mistake, they got up off the bench and went onto the court, a mistake that is not made by teams with veterans. The NBA cant change the rule just because its the Suns...in every instance the player leaving the bench during a fight or confrontation is faced with consequences. For the NBA to not take action would make the rule a joke.

[piratebg]

Very true. It was something that I didn't notice until the announcers pointed it out and made a big deal about it.

[DU_stud04]

what would happen if both teams cleared the benches? would everyone be suspended? that would cancel the game they were playing? or was it already over with. then the next 2 games, everyone would be suspended. that would leave game 7 to decided? and thats only to say they didnt call off the game played. if they did then san antonio would still be a 2-1 with one game to go. im thinking too much. whats your input?

:D

[bandera7]

I honestly dont know the answer to that one...because the Pistons-Pacers thing wasnt in the playoffs. I have no idea what the NBA would do, but I am sure it would be interesting. They might just kick both teams out of the playoffs...

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Robert Horry: makes a hard foul and potentially injures a player, suspened one game. (He was suspended an additional game for his confrontation with Marion.)

Amare Stoudemire and Diaw: get up to defend their teammates, harmed nobody, suspended one game.

Fair and balanced? I think not.

[bandera7]

It would have been different if Horry had a history of these kind of things, but Horry is known around as a nice guy, and I think even Nash knows he didnt mean to get him that hard.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by DU_stud04
what would happen if both teams cleared the benches? would everyone be suspended? that would cancel the game they were playing? or was it already over with. then the next 2 games, everyone would be suspended. that would leave game 7 to decided? and thats only to say they didnt call off the game played. if they did then san antonio would still be a 2-1 with one game to go. im thinking too much. whats your input?

:D

Each team is required to have 8 players on the bench, as per NBA rules, and they would serve their suspensions going alphabetically, going by the first letter of the last name, in order to have the games played.

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Man, this is some bullcrap. :mad:

No it is league rules. The simple version is what the league determines is an altercation. Any altercation and the rules are clear. If it is not an altercation then the suspensions do not apply. That is sad but the way it worked out this time.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by bandera7
It would have been different if Horry had a history of these kind of things, but Horry is known around as a nice guy, and I think even Nash knows he didnt mean to get him that hard.

If that's so, then why did Nash get up and run straight for Horry, and then comment after the game that he had been working out and that he was going to use the "guns" he developed on him?

[smustangs]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Robert Horry: makes a hard foul and potentially injures a player, suspened one game. (He was suspended an additional game for his confrontation with Marion.)

Amare Stoudemire and Diaw: get up to defend their teammates, harmed nobody, suspended one game.

Fair and balanced? I think not.

i agree rules are rules but at some point you have to use common sense and consider human reactions i would be more concerned if no one tried to stand up for a teammate than if they they did. if diaw or stoudemire hit someone or did anything more than come up off the bench i could see the suspension but the rule is dumb and needs some revamping cuz it just cost the suns the next game i think. cuz horry hasnt been a key player really for the spurs stoudemire is the best thing the suns have besides nash and some could argue he is more important than nash

[smustangs]

Originally posted by bandera7
It would have been different if Horry had a history of these kind of things, but Horry is known around as a nice guy, and I think even Nash knows he didnt mean to get him that hard.

thats y nash jumped up and looked like he wanted to fight horry then?

[KTA]

i agree its a bunch of bs if you ask me

isnt this almost the same thing from my post earlier?....not trying to start anything just would like to know what I can, and cant get away with.


ACTULLY IM JUST TRYING TO NONCHALANTLEY TELL ON YOU :p

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
No it is league rules. The simple version is what the league determines is an altercation. Any altercation and the rules are clear. If it is not an altercation then the suspensions do not apply. That is sad but the way it worked out this time.

Do you like arguing with me or something?

[DU_stud04]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Each team is required to have 8 players on the bench, as per NBA rules, and they would serve their suspensions going alphabetically, going by the first letter of the last name, in order to have the games played.

Phoenix Suns

1 Banks, Marcus
2 Barbosa, Leandro
3 Bell, Raja
4 Burke, Pat
5 Diaw, Boris
6 Jones, James
7 Jones, Jumaine
8 Marion, Shawn
9 Marks, Sean
10 Nash, Steve
11 Piatkowski, Eric
12 Rose, Jalen
13 Stoudemire, Amare
14 Thomas, Kurt


San Antonio Spurs

1 Barry, Brent
2 Bonner, Matt
3 Bowen, Bruce
4 Butler, Jackie
5 Duncan, Tim
6 Elson, Francisco
7 Ely, Melvin
8 Finley, Michael
9 Ginobili, Manu
10 Horry, Robert
11 Oberto, Fabricio
12 Parker, Tony
13 Udrih, Beno
14 Vaughn, Jacque
15 White, James

[smustangs]

Originally posted by KTA
isnt this almost the same thing from my post earlier?....not trying to start anything just would like to know what I can, and cant get away with.


ACTULLY IM JUST TRYING TO NONCHALANTLEY TELL ON YOU :p

ok cry baby do you want it changed cuz i can edit mine too

[DU_stud04]

7 Jones, Jumaine
8 Marion, Shawn
9 Marks, Sean
10 Nash, Steve
11 Piatkowski, Eric
12 Rose, Jalen
13 Stoudemire, Amare
14 Thomas, Kurt


vs

8 Finley, Michael
9 Ginobili, Manu
10 Horry, Robert
11 Oberto, Fabricio
12 Parker, Tony
13 Udrih, Beno
14 Vaughn, Jacque
15 White, James


what an exciting game........

LET THEM FIGHT!!!!!!!

:D

[bandera7]

Nash was pissed off when it happened, when you get hit all common sense often goes down the drain, and you just want at the person that got you, Nash is a classy guy, I dont much like him but he has class. I think he knows that Horry didnt want to hurt him...I mean yeah I dont know for sure but Horry isnt like that and Nash has been pretty cool with the spurs for a while.

[smustangs]

Originally posted by DU_stud04
7 Jones, Jumaine
8 Marion, Shawn
9 Marks, Sean
10 Nash, Steve
11 Piatkowski, Eric
12 Rose, Jalen
13 Stoudemire, Amare
14 Thomas, Kurt


vs

8 Finley, Michael
9 Ginobili, Manu
10 Horry, Robert
11 Oberto, Fabricio
12 Parker, Tony
13 Udrih, Beno
14 Vaughn, Jacque
15 White, James


what an exciting game........

LET THEM FIGHT!!!!!!!

:D

haha that would be a good one i would just like to see the fight

[DU_stud04]

Originally posted by smustangs
haha that would be a good one i would just like to see the fight ........ id rather mow the lawn again.

unless the spurs trade for KG. then im all for it. kg could take them all by himself :D

[smustangs]

Originally posted by bandera7
Nash was pissed off when it happened, when you get hit all common sense often goes down the drain, and you just want at the person that got you, Nash is a classy guy, I dont much like him but he has class. I think he knows that Horry didnt want to hurt him...I mean yeah I dont know for sure but Horry isnt like that and Nash has been pretty cool with the spurs for a while.

i cant speak for nash but i dont care if horry meant to or not i would be pissed if someone hit me like that and wouldnt just say "o he didnt mean to its ok" but thast just me

[bandera7]

man the Spurs kill them in a fight, Horry is a pretty thick guy, Bowen is a black belt, we arent expecting much from Parker, hes french...but I wouldnt want to fight Elson either...

[bandera7]

Originally posted by smustangs
i cant speak for nash but i dont care if horry meant to or not i would be pissed if someone hit me like that and wouldnt just say "o he didnt mean to its ok" but thast just me

That is kind of my point, I think Nash knows he didnt mean to, but he is just upset that it happened. All I am trying to say is that Horry's suspension is not too short because he isnt typically a thug.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by bandera7
man the Spurs kill them in a fight, Horry is a pretty thick guy, Bowen is a black belt, we arent expecting much from Parker, hes french...but I wouldnt want to fight Elson either...

Man, you get a bunch of big, athletic black guys together and make them fight, things are going to be ugly. Don't believe me, you can probably find proof on Youtube.

[KTA]

ok cry baby do you want it changed cuz i can edit mine too

Chill dude im just messing with you.

[bandera7]

BBDE ive seen some crazy fights on Youtube by some big athletes, its actually scary...

[smustangs]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Man, you get a bunch of big, athletic black guys together and make them fight, things are going to be ugly. Don't believe me, you can probably find proof on Youtube.

haha this post just made me laugh hard for some reason

[3afan]

Mike & Mike talked alot about this .... they put alot of the blame on Bowen - called him a dirty player who should have been suspended twice already in this series and numerous times in the past ....

[themsu97]

Duncan did not leave the bench during an altercation...Diaw and Stoudemire did... NBA players know these rules and when you know where the line is, do not cross it...does it suck? yeah, but the rules are the rules... did Horry deserve two games? NO, maybe one... there are hard fouls all the time in the NBA... Nash should have just accepted it and went on... Nash charged and that is what riled up the bench...
somebody made a great point as to why this is a rule... if the rule were not in place and a fight were to break out? what kind of chance would Horry have had? it would have been at least 6 on 1 before the Spurs could have helped him...
which is why baseball needs to have automatic suspensions as well for leaving the bench or for leaving positions during a fight... how brave would Clemens and Schilling be if they knew that they were one on one with some of the batters they head hunt for... Ryan of course was another matter

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by themsu97
... Ryan of course was another matter
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j129/jmullis/nolan2520kicks2520ass.jpg

[Maroon87]

I wish that no one from Phoenix had been suspended because I don't want any excuses if they lose. But if you ask me, it's poetic justice that Stoudamire calls the Spurs dirty yet he winds up getting suspended. He escalated this whole series with that comment IMO.

[District303aPastPlayer]

Originally posted by themsu97
Duncan did not leave the bench during an altercation...Diaw and Stoudemire did... NBA players know these rules and when you know where the line is, do not cross it...does it suck? yeah, but the rules are the rules... did Horry deserve two games? NO, maybe one... there are hard fouls all the time in the NBA... Nash should have just accepted it and went on... Nash charged and that is what riled up the bench...
somebody made a great point as to why this is a rule... if the rule were not in place and a fight were to break out? what kind of chance would Horry have had? it would have been at least 6 on 1 before the Spurs could have helped him...
which is why baseball needs to have automatic suspensions as well for leaving the bench or for leaving positions during a fight... how brave would Clemens and Schilling be if they knew that they were one on one with some of the batters they head hunt for... Ryan of course was another matter

maybe i am blind, but i clearly saw video of duncan leaving the bench going halfway to the paint... last time i checked, that was leaving the bench....

[TMer25]

Originally posted by District303aPastPlayer
maybe i am blind, but i clearly saw video of duncan leaving the bench going halfway to the paint... last time i checked, that was leaving the bench....


Nope you aren't blind he definitely did.

[themsu97]

but you are missing the piece... during an altercation... in the NBA's view it was not an altercation... big difference between incident in 2nd quarter and altercation in 4th...
but like a poster said earlier... Stoudemire opened his mouth about dirty play and yet he leaves the bench and gets suspended... poetic justice

[District303aPastPlayer]

this is from an ESPN article...


But NBA executive vice president of basketball operations Stu Jackson told reporters in a conference call after announcing the suspensions that the league's longstanding policy of invoking its leave-the-bench rule without considering additional factors made the Suns' suspensions automatic.

"A precedent wasn't necessary here," Jackson said. "The rule with respect to leaving the bench area during an altercation is very clear.

"Historically, if you break it, you will get suspended, regardless of what the circumstances are."

Jackson added that Stoudemire and Diaw, in the league's estimation, were "about 20 to 25 feet away from their seats" and headed "towards the altercation" before Suns assistant coaches scrambled them back to the bench.

The Suns countered by saying that Duncan and Bruce Bowen were guilty of a similar leaving-the-bench offense in Game 4's first half when San Antonio's Francisco Elson fell on the Suns' James Jones after a dunk. That play was also reviewed, but Jackson -- while conceding that Duncan "should not have been on the playing court" -- said that the league determined there was "no cause for the suspension rule" to be applied because the Elson-Jones tangle was not deemed to be an altercation.

so basically Stu Jackson just admitted that it was a double standard... thanks Stu for clearing that up for us :thumbsup:


Sarver also said that NBA commissioner David Stern has canceled a schedule appearance in Phoenix for Wednesday night's Game 5. http://assets.espn.go.com/i/page2/topstory/05152007_pg2_big.jpg

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by themsu97
Duncan did not leave the bench during an altercation...Diaw and Stoudemire did... NBA players know these rules and when you know where the line is, do not cross it...does it suck? yeah, but the rules are the rules... did Horry deserve two games? NO, maybe one... there are hard fouls all the time in the NBA... Nash should have just accepted it and went on... Nash charged and that is what riled up the bench...
somebody made a great point as to why this is a rule... if the rule were not in place and a fight were to break out? what kind of chance would Horry have had? it would have been at least 6 on 1 before the Spurs could have helped him...

So basically, you're extremely biased and that is the reason that you think all of this is justified. Great persuasive skills. Oh, and Horry should have been ejected for more than 2 games, not only did he intentionally try to injure Steve Nash, he tried to get in a fight with Sean Marion right after that. :doh:

[Phil C]

Originally posted by themsu97
but you are missing the piece... during an altercation... in the NBA's view it was not an altercation... big difference between incident in 2nd quarter and altercation in 4th...
but like a poster said earlier... Stoudemire opened his mouth about dirty play and yet he leaves the bench and gets suspended... poetic justice

You mean poetic injustice! :)

[JasperDog94]

Here's a question for everyone:

Why didn't Horry just grab Nash like every other player that intentionally fouls someone? Why did he resort to the forearm?:thinking: :thinking: :thinking: :thinking:

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
Here's a question for everyone:

Why didn't Horry just grab Nash like every other player that intentionally fouls someone? Why did he resort to the forearm?:thinking: :thinking: :thinking: :thinking:

Horry made a mistake. Period. Historically, Horry is not a dirty player. He just got frustrated and went too far with a hard foul. It really is that simple. I personally do not have a problem with his suspension. However, I do have a problem with it in light of the fact that Baron Davis got no suspension for a much worse "altercation" than Horry.

As for the Suns' guys, the rule is what it is. You can argue the validity of the rule all day long, but you can not go on the court during an altercation. Period.

[themsu97]

they did the crime, they serve the time...

NBA ruled and it is final..

and I am not biased... the NBA is the worst of all sports other than soccer for all the flopping, whining about calls, and players who are not just tough...
quit the whining, and play the game

[3afan]

Originally posted by Macarthur
Horry made a mistake. Period. Historically, Horry is not a dirty player. He just got frustrated and went too far with a hard foul. It really is that simple. I personally do not have a problem with his suspension. However, I do have a problem with it in light of the fact that Baron Davis got no suspension for a much worse "altercation" than Horry.

As for the Suns' guys, the rule is what it is. You can argue the validity of the rule all day long, but you can not go on the court during an altercation. Period.

very well stated ..........

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by Macarthur
Horry made a mistake. Period. Historically, Horry is not a dirty player. He just got frustrated and went too far with a hard foul. He was sending a message. And unfortunately he also started the events that will lead to a Spurs series victory. A hollow victory, but a victory nonetheless.

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by Macarthur
Horry made a mistake. Period. Historically, Horry is not a dirty player. He just got frustrated and went too far with a hard foul. It really is that simple. I personally do not have a problem with his suspension. However, I do have a problem with it in light of the fact that Baron Davis got no suspension for a much worse "altercation" than Horry.

As for the Suns' guys, the rule is what it is. You can argue the validity of the rule all day long, but you can not go on the court during an altercation. Period. more should be expected of a veteran

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
more should be expected of a veteran Horry knew exactly what he was doing.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
So basically, you're extremely biased and that is the reason that you think all of this is justified. Great persuasive skills. Oh, and Horry should have been ejected for more than 2 games, not only did he intentionally try to injure Steve Nash, he tried to get in a fight with Sean Marion right after that. :doh:
.
like you've never been biased...:p

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
Horry knew exactly what he was doing. and what exactly was that

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
He was sending a message. And unfortunately he also started the events that will lead to a Spurs series victory. A hollow victory, but a victory nonetheless.
.
This won't lead the Spur's to a victory... in fact it inflames the Suns.:doh:
It's gonna be a barn-burner tonight.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Macarthur, the actions of a man show his true colors, especially in trying times when everything isn't going their way. History will now show that Horry is a dirty player, and what he did was despicable with the intent to harm another player, because what he did was in the past and is now a part of history, and can never be changed.

To everyone who is arguing the point that rules are rules and should be followed exactly, you're failing to realize that judgment is used in determining what is right and what is wrong in every situation. Laws are broken every day, but through careful judgment through those who write the laws and those who prosecute them, sometimes nothing at all happens to those involved. The people on here who are trying to justify Stoudemire and Diaw being suspended are the guys who think that Horry isn't a dirty player, or that his two game suspension is too stiff, or someone else did something worse than him and received no punishment or suspension at all. If you're going to argue right and wrong, look at the big picture, Horry did nothing but benefit the Spurs by doing what he did. The team that will truly suffer are the Suns, for doing absolutely nothing wrong and had no involvement or provoked nobody in the altercation that took place in the game. That's not right and that's not fair, that is, unless you're a Spurs fan who is too biased to understand that. I'm not trying to be the morals police, but when you argue right and wrong, at least try to have your facts straight and your points fair and balanced. That is all.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
That's not right and that's not fair,
.
.
.
that is, unless you're a Spurs fan who is too biased to understand that.
.
.
.
I'm not trying to be the morals police, but when you argue right and wrong
.
Let's not rush to judgement here G-Man...
.
Fairness? lol:p

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Macarthur, the actions of a man show his true colors, especially in trying times when everything isn't going their way. History will now show that Horry is a dirty player, and what he did was despicable with the intent to harm another player, because what he did was in the past and is now a part of history, and can never be changed.

If a man is judged his entire life for one or two poor decisions he makes, then God help us all. Come on, you're coming off as a bit self-righteous here.

Horry has a long history in this league and is very well liked. He is not a dirty player; he just made a dumb play.


To everyone who is arguing the point that rules are rules and should be followed exactly, you're failing to realize that judgment is used in determining what is right and what is wrong in every situation.

That's not true. Some things are judgement calls, some are not. For example, mandatory drug sentences, things like that. There's nothing judegment about that.



Laws are broken every day, but through careful judgment through those who write the laws and those who prosecute them, sometimes nothing at all happens to those involved.

Again, that happens some times, but not "all" as you are proclaiming.



The people on here who are trying to justify Stoudemire and Diaw being suspended are the guys who think that Horry isn't a dirty player, or that his two game suspension is too stiff, or someone else did something worse than him and received no punishment or suspension at all.

Here's the difference you're not seeing. The action on the field/court (Davis & Horry) happen on the court and during the action. Those items are judgement calls by the league. The issue with Stoudmire & Diaw is not a judgement call. The league has been very clear that if you do what they did, you will be suspended. That is not a judgement.


If you're going to argue right and wrong, look at the big picture, Horry did nothing but benefit the Spurs by doing what he did. The team that will truly suffer are the Suns, for doing absolutely nothing wrong and had no involvement or provoked nobody in the altercation that took place in the game.

Well, but the intention of the rule has nothing to do with the fairness or unfairness of the outcome. When they made the decision to have zero tolerance on this issue (rightly or wrongly, which is a different discussion, in my mind) they can not have exceptions for outcomes that may seem unfair. Does that make sense?




That's not right and that's not fair, that is, unless you're a Spurs fan who is too biased to understand that. I'm not trying to be the morals police, but when you argue right and wrong, at least try to have your facts straight and your points fair and balanced. That is all.

Who does not have their facts straight? I'm not bias. I would prefer the Spurs win, but I'm not a Spurs fan. Your assumption is that your facts are straight and your points are fair and balanced.

The issue of whether this outcome is fair and the rightness or wrongness of this rule are two seperate issues, IMO.

[Maroon87]

Again, as a Spurs fan I wish the 2 guys from the Suns had not been suspended because now if the Spurs win that's gonna be pointed to as the main reason. Maybe this will get the NBA to look at the rule about leaving the bench during a fight. The bottom line is the series is gonna be decided by the teams on the floor and not a bunch of guys on soap boxes on a message board.

[Phil C]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
He was sending a message. And unfortunately he also started the events that will lead to a Spurs series victory. A hollow victory, but a victory nonetheless.

Jasper the Suns will be motivated and will probably win tonight as Nash has a great game and inspires the bench. I would love to be wrong but that actually gave the series to the Suns. Remember the game tonight is in Phoenix. After tonight you can all call me Prophet Bill. :)

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Macarthur
If a man is judged his entire life for one or two poor decisions he makes, then God help us all. Come on, you're coming off as a bit self-righteous here.

Horry has a long history in this league and is very well liked. He is not a dirty player; he just made a dumb play.



That's not true. Some things are judgement calls, some are not. For example, mandatory drug sentences, things like that. There's nothing judegment about that.




Again, that happens some times, but not "all" as you are proclaiming.




Here's the difference you're not seeing. The action on the field/court (Davis & Horry) happen on the court and during the action. Those items are judgement calls by the league. The issue with Stoudmire & Diaw is not a judgement call. The league has been very clear that if you do what they did, you will be suspended. That is not a judgement.



Well, but the intention of the rule has nothing to do with the fairness or unfairness of the outcome. When they made the decision to have zero tolerance on this issue (rightly or wrongly, which is a different discussion, in my mind) they can not have exceptions for outcomes that may seem unfair. Does that make sense?





Who does not have their facts straight? I'm not bias. I would prefer the Spurs win, but I'm not a Spurs fan. Your assumption is that your facts are straight and your points are fair and balanced.

The issue of whether this outcome is fair and the rightness or wrongness of this rule are two seperate issues, IMO.

I'm not saying a man is going to be judged his entire life by his actions, but the impression that you leave upon someone is left up to every individual, and Horry has left his impression on me. It wouldn't have been so bad if he had just made a hard foul on Nash, but then when he went and tried to start stuff with Marion, that was just icing on the cake.

Not everything is a judgment call, but when an issue is in question, people use common sense to come to a fair solution to the problem.

I never said it happened all the time, I said sometimes nothing happens to people who break the rules/law because they did nothing to deserve any punishment. There again, good judgment is used in determining a fair solution to the problem.

The issue with Stoudemire and Diaw IS a judgment call, because if it wasn't, why are people questioning it and why is anything being brought up because of it. Nobody is questioning Horry's suspension because what he did deserved the punishment he received, but there has been an uproar over the league's decision to suspend Stoudemire and Diaw. If you don't believe me, watch the pre-game, halftime, and post-game shows and listen to what they have to say.

Clearly, what I have been arguing is the validity of zero-tolerance in this situation. Yes, I clearly assume that my facts are correct, otherwise I wouldn't have wasted my time writing them.

[Phil C]

It like has been said before "I hardly think it's fair to condemn a whole program because of one or two minor slipups."

[DU_stud04]

i personally just want to see this matchup again.
http://www.fredhayes.com/photogallery/Karl%20Malone%20and%20Tim%20Duncan.jpg

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
I'm not saying a man is going to be judged his entire life by his actions, but the impression that you leave upon someone is left up to every individual, and Horry has left his impression on me. It wouldn't have been so bad if he had just made a hard foul on Nash, but then when he went and tried to start stuff with Marion, that was just icing on the cake.

Well, that's your right to have that opinion. My point is that from everything I hear or read about him, the league will not view him negatively because of this bad decision. Start stuff with Marion? Do you mean Bell? If you mean Bell, they were a couple of roosters squaring off. Every man on the face of the earth would have done that.


Not everything is a judgment call, but when an issue is in question, people use common sense to come to a fair solution to the problem.

But not with every issue. The league has deemed this issue zero tolerence. When there is an altercation, if the player comes onto the court they will get suspended. There is precedent there and the teams and coaches are instructed to drill this into the players heads.


I never said it happened all the time, I said sometimes nothing happens to people who break the rules/law because they did nothing to deserve any punishment. There again, good judgment is used in determining a fair solution to the problem.

But my point is that there are some things in this world that are not left to judgement. Some drug laws, as I mentioned, are a perfect example.



The issue with Stoudemire and Diaw IS a judgment call, because if it wasn't, why are people questioning it and why is anything being brought up because of it.

People are questioning it on it's fairness given the situation. And really, from what I have seen, the Suns aren't really attacking the decision so much as they are trying to get the league to suspend Duncan for what they view as going on the court. And based on the rule and precedent it really is not a judgement call; people can question it all they want, but that doesn't make it a judgement call just because people question it.



Nobody is questioning Horry's suspension because what he did deserved the punishment he received, but there has been an uproar over the league's decision to suspend Stoudemire and Diaw. If you don't believe me, watch the pre-game, halftime, and post-game shows and listen to what they have to say.

the uproar is about the fairness. Everyone I have seen has acknowledged that by the "letter of the law", the league is being consistent, even Shaq and Barkley admitted that night that the league probably would suspend them. Many just don't like it because it appears unfair.



Clearly, what I have been arguing is the validity of zero-tolerance in this situation. Yes, I clearly assume that my facts are correct, otherwise I wouldn't have wasted my time writing them.

I'm not a fan of zero tolerance either but you do have to respect the fact that the league seems to be consistent on this issue. Now on other issues, not so much....

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Macarthur
Well, that's your right to have that opinion. My point is that from everything I hear or read about him, the league will not view him negatively because of this bad decision. Start stuff with Marion? Do you mean Bell? If you mean Bell, they were a couple of roosters squaring off. Every man on the face of the earth would have done that.



But not with every issue. The league has deemed this issue zero tolerence. When there is an altercation, if the player comes onto the court they will get suspended. There is precedent there and the teams and coaches are instructed to drill this into the players heads.



But my point is that there are some things in this world that are not left to judgement. Some drug laws, as I mentioned, are a perfect example.




People are questioning it on it's fairness given the situation. And really, from what I have seen, the Suns aren't really attacking the decision so much as they are trying to get the league to suspend Duncan for what they view as going on the court. And based on the rule and precedent it really is not a judgement call; people can question it all they want, but that doesn't make it a judgement call just because people question it.




the uproar is about the fairness. Everyone I have seen has acknowledged that by the "letter of the law", the league is being consistent, even Shaq and Barkley admitted that night that the league probably would suspend them. Many just don't like it because it appears unfair.




I'm not a fan of zero tolerance either but you do have to respect the fact that the league seems to be consistent on this issue. Now on other issues, not so much....

I guess it was with Bell, but I vaguely remembered seeing Marion across the back of the jersey of the man he tried to elbow/punch in the face, but I could be wrong. Do I look at Horry as I look at Stephen Jackson? Not in a million years, but I don't like it when people make excuses for Horry at the same time or just try to get other people to let it go.

I understand the league's zero-tolerance position in this situation, and I'm saying that I don't agree with it.

I never argued that judgment was used in every situation, some things are simply black and white, but somethings need to be taken into consideration, that was my point.

I always was under the belief that if people questioned it it was controversial and not just black and white, as I stated earlier, but that's my opinion.

We're on the same level of understanding, but just on other sides of the fence.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
I guess it was with Bell, but I vaguely remembered seeing Marion across the back of the jersey of the man he tried to elbow/punch in the face, but I could be wrong. Do I look at Horry as I look at Stephen Jackson? Not in a million years, but I don't like it when people make excuses for Horry at the same time or just try to get other people to let it go.

Well, let me be clear, I'm not trying to make excuses for him. I have said from the beginning that it was dumb move by him, and I don't have a problem with the suspension.

However, I do think it shows inconsistency in how the league inforces these "judgement" calls because the Baron Davis situation was more deserving of a suspension than Horry's.


I understand the league's zero-tolerance position in this situation, and I'm saying that I don't agree with it.

Sure. I think the agreement or disagreement with the policy is a valid discussion. I was just trying to point out that the league has been very clear on this one.


I never argued that judgment was used in every situation, some things are simply black and white, but somethings need to be taken into consideration, that was my point.

I agree. As I said earlier, I'm not a fan of zero tolerance.


I always was under the belief that if people questioned it it was controversial and not just black and white, as I stated earlier, but that's my opinion.

We're on the same level of understanding, but just on other sides of the fence.

I don't really view it as us being on opposite side of the fence. I just think we were looking at two different issues. Yours was the agreement or disagreement with the policy. Mine was simply to say that the rightness or wrongness of the policy is a different issue than whether this situation is fair or even right for that matter.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
This won't lead the Spur's to a victory... in fact it inflames the Suns.:doh:
It's gonna be a barn-burner tonight. So you think not having those two guys will help the Suns more than hurt them? Come on SF. You're smarter than that.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by Phil C
Jasper the Suns will be motivated and will probably win tonight as Nash has a great game and inspires the bench. I would love to be wrong but that actually gave the series to the Suns. Remember the game tonight is in Phoenix. After tonight you can all call me Prophet Bill. :) Sorry Phil, but you can only play on emotion for so long. At some point, talent and depth will take over.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
So you think not having those two guys will help the Suns more than hurt them? Come on SF. You're smarter than that.
.
We does everyone keep saying I'm smarter than that?
Golly I must be a flippin genius(or at least fence post material lol).:D
.
I do think that this will motivate the Suns to no end. Take my opinion with a grain of salt if you must.;)

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by SintonFan

Golly I must be a flippin genius(or at least fence post material lol).:D

Oh the dilemma - choices, choices..... :thinking: :thinking: :p

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
.
I do think that this will motivate the Suns to no end. Take my opinion with a grain of salt if you must.;) Motived, yes. But motivation will only take you so far. You must still have comparable talent and, in this case, depth.

Advantage - Spurs.

[GreenMachine]

Well, I like Horry and don't think he is a dirty player, but I think he deserves the suspension. I don't think, however, that the Suns players deserve a suspension. I don't feel you deserve a suspension unless you are participating in a fight. Not just for leaving the bench. With that said, go Spurs go!

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Oh the dilemma - choices, choices..... :thinking: :thinking: :p
.
:tongue: :tongue: :doh: :D