Here's why I'll be rooting for Kobe vs the Suns...

[Adidas410s]

so hopefully he'll do this again!!! :D:D:D

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2006-04/23141787.jpg

[big daddy russ]

I want him to shut everyone on the Downlow up. He's the best player in the league... already as good as Jordan. And if you still think that Jordan's the best ever, tell me why. Explain it to me, because he's definitely NOT the reason the Bulls were so dominant. And if you really believe he was, put your facts out there and I'll tear them to shreds.

He'll wind up being better than Mike. Unfortunately, everyone listens to the media waaaaaay too much and thinks that Mike is the best thing since sliced bread. Unfortunately, the media's full of idiots and they have TONS of people who listen to them that... get this... are also idiots. If you can't think for yourself, don't get in this debate. MJ's a punk, an adulterer, and he's not even the second-best player of the last 20 years.

I've got news for everyone... Pippen was almost as good as Mike. Mike just turned a 55-win team into a 57-win team. Big friggin' deal. Bill Russell turned a 35-win team into a championship team and Kobe turned a 20-win team into a playoff team.

KOBE=MICHAEL JORDAN. Prove me wrong. I dare you.

[kepdawg]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I want him to shut everyone on the Downlow up. He's the best player in the league... already as good as Jordan. And if you still think that Jordan's the best ever, tell me why. Explain it to me, because he's definitely NOT the reason the Bulls were so dominant. And if you really believe he was, put your facts out there and I'll tear them to shreds.

He'll wind up being better than Mike. Unfortunately, everyone listens to the media waaaaaay too much and thinks that Mike is the best thing since sliced bread. Unfortunately, the media's full of idiots and they have TONS of people who listen to them that... get this... are also idiots. If you can't think for yourself, don't get in this debate. MJ's a punk, an adulterer, and he's not even the second-best player of the last 20 years.

I've got news for everyone... Pippen was almost as good as Mike. Mike just turned a 55-win team into a 57-win team. Big friggin' deal. Bill Russell turned a 35-win team into a championship team and Kobe turned a 20-win team into a playoff team.

KOBE=MICHAEL JORDAN. Prove me wrong. I dare you.

:rolleyes:

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6870/rings8nq.png

There you go, you're wrong.

[smustangs]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I want him to shut everyone on the Downlow up. He's the best player in the league... already as good as Jordan. And if you still think that Jordan's the best ever, tell me why. Explain it to me, because he's definitely NOT the reason the Bulls were so dominant. And if you really believe he was, put your facts out there and I'll tear them to shreds.

He'll wind up being better than Mike. Unfortunately, everyone listens to the media waaaaaay too much and thinks that Mike is the best thing since sliced bread. Unfortunately, the media's full of idiots and they have TONS of people who listen to them that... get this... are also idiots. If you can't think for yourself, don't get in this debate. MJ's a punk, an adulterer, and he's not even the second-best player of the last 20 years.

I've got news for everyone... Pippen was almost as good as Mike. Mike just turned a 55-win team into a 57-win team. Big friggin' deal. Bill Russell turned a 35-win team into a championship team and Kobe turned a 20-win team into a playoff team.

KOBE=MICHAEL JORDAN. Prove me wrong. I dare you.

wow now tell us how you really feel

[kepdawg]

Player A

24.6 points, 5.2 rebounds, 4.5 assists, 1.5 steals

Player B

16.1 points, 6.4 rebounds, 5.2 assists, 1.96 steals

Player C

30.1 points, 6.2 rebounds, 5.3 assists, 2.35 steals

[smustangs]

Originally posted by kepdawg
Player A

24.6 points, 5.2 rebounds, 4.5 assists, 1.5 steals

Player B

16.1 points, 6.4 rebounds, 5.2 assists, 1.96 steals

Player C

30.1 points, 6.2 rebounds, 5.3 assists, 2.35 steals

now who is each player i would take c though

[kepdawg]

Originally posted by smustangs
now who is each player i would take c though

I think you know who is who.

Let me add...

Player D

15.9 points, 9.8 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 1.0 steals

Player E

25.9 points, 11.6 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 0.6 steals

[smustangs]

Originally posted by kepdawg
I think you know who is who.

Let me add...

Player D

15.9 points, 9.8 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 1.0 steals

Player E

25.9 points, 11.6 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 0.6 steals

still take player c

[kepdawg]

Originally posted by smustangs
still take player c

What's sad is I really don't care, but I'm afraid BDR's going to probably come back yelling and screaming! :(

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I want him to shut everyone on the Downlow up. He's the best player in the league... already as good as Jordan. And if you still think that Jordan's the best ever, tell me why. Explain it to me, because he's definitely NOT the reason the Bulls were so dominant. And if you really believe he was, put your facts out there and I'll tear them to shreds.

He'll wind up being better than Mike. Unfortunately, everyone listens to the media waaaaaay too much and thinks that Mike is the best thing since sliced bread. Unfortunately, the media's full of idiots and they have TONS of people who listen to them that... get this... are also idiots. If you can't think for yourself, don't get in this debate. MJ's a punk, an adulterer, and he's not even the second-best player of the last 20 years.

I've got news for everyone... Pippen was almost as good as Mike. Mike just turned a 55-win team into a 57-win team. Big friggin' deal. Bill Russell turned a 35-win team into a championship team and Kobe turned a 20-win team into a playoff team.

KOBE=MICHAEL JORDAN. Prove me wrong. I dare you. Pippen had his chance when Michael was gone. He wasn't the player that Jordan was nor was he the leader that Jordan was.

You want proof?

After Jordan and the Bulls won their first three, the bulls went to pot.

Jordan comes back and they win three more.

The end.:)

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

If you look at it from the leadership qualities of either player strictly, I would never want to be on a team with Kobe Bryant, I don't care how good he is. The same things are said about Terrell Owens, or other selfish athletes. I would rather have a guy who is above average who is a great leader and makes those around him better. Can any of you think of who in the NBA is a great example of that?

[JR2004]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
I would never want to be on a team with Kobe Bryant, I don't care how good he is.

LOL...

[burnet44]

a
b
c
d
e
f


who wins Thats who I take


Mike hands down

Kobe doesnt make anyone better
that is the difference
all you young nn;s have no clue about that
quote stats put up his numbers
stats are for losers

only 1 stat
did you help your team win
mike did
kobe just puts up numbers
not championships
yeah he wins with Shaq
Shaq wins without kobe

Kobe (shoot a 1232373782 times) Bryant
will never win another one

count on it

no tell me how mike is worse
throw out some stats

just like Kobe
throw out some stats

Duncan is better
he helps his team win
yeah that statement will get you to fire back
thanks for proving my point

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I want him to shut everyone on the Downlow up. He's the best player in the league... already as good as Jordan. And if you still think that Jordan's the best ever, tell me why. Explain it to me, because he's definitely NOT the reason the Bulls were so dominant. And if you really believe he was, put your facts out there and I'll tear them to shreds.

He'll wind up being better than Mike. Unfortunately, everyone listens to the media waaaaaay too much and thinks that Mike is the best thing since sliced bread. Unfortunately, the media's full of idiots and they have TONS of people who listen to them that... get this... are also idiots. If you can't think for yourself, don't get in this debate. MJ's a punk, an adulterer, and he's not even the second-best player of the last 20 years.

I've got news for everyone... Pippen was almost as good as Mike. Mike just turned a 55-win team into a 57-win team. Big friggin' deal. Bill Russell turned a 35-win team into a championship team and Kobe turned a 20-win team into a playoff team.

KOBE=MICHAEL JORDAN. Prove me wrong. I dare you. is everyone an idiot except for you??

All the proof I need to prove that MJ was better then Kobe... MJ carried his team to 6 titles... Kobe has 3 titles as the number 2 guy... MJ 5 Mvps should be 6 but the media gave one to Malone bc they were tired of Jordan winning Kobe has 0 league MVP's... Mikes an adultor but Kobe isn't is someone forgetting an incident in Colorado... If Scottie was so good how come when MJ wasnt there the Bulls weren't winning it all??... If Scottie is so good why did he sit out a game 7 bc he had a headache? If you dont like MJ thats fine your entitled to your opinion but this seems like a case of someone trying to bring someone elses accomplishments down because of personal dislike

[Maroon87]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
I would rather have a guy who is above average who is a great leader and makes those around him better. Can any of you think of who in the NBA is a great example of that?

Timmy.:cool:

[Emerson1]

I never saw what was so great about MJ. Maybe because I was only 6 at the time and the only reason I knew who he was was because his role in Space Jam.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I want him to shut everyone on the Downlow up. He's the best player in the league... already as good as Jordan. And if you still think that Jordan's the best ever, tell me why. Explain it to me, because he's definitely NOT the reason the Bulls were so dominant. And if you really believe he was, put your facts out there and I'll tear them to shreds.

He'll wind up being better than Mike. Unfortunately, everyone listens to the media waaaaaay too much and thinks that Mike is the best thing since sliced bread. Unfortunately, the media's full of idiots and they have TONS of people who listen to them that... get this... are also idiots. If you can't think for yourself, don't get in this debate. MJ's a punk, an adulterer, and he's not even the second-best player of the last 20 years.

I've got news for everyone... Pippen was almost as good as Mike. Mike just turned a 55-win team into a 57-win team. Big friggin' deal. Bill Russell turned a 35-win team into a championship team and Kobe turned a 20-win team into a playoff team.

KOBE=MICHAEL JORDAN. Prove me wrong. I dare you.

You are delusional.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
Pippen had his chance when Michael was gone. He wasn't the player that Jordan was nor was he the leader that Jordan was.

You want proof?

After Jordan and the Bulls won their first three, the bulls went to pot.

Jordan comes back and they win three more.
1993-94 (With Pipp) NBA 55-27 2nd, Central Division Lost East Conf Semis
1992-93 (With Jordan) NBA 57-25 1st, Central Division Won NBA Finals

That's a horrible resume for Pipp. I mean, come on. Him, BJ Armstrong, and Horace Grant led their team to the third-best record in the Eastern Conference (fifth-best in the NBA) and took the East's number one seed seven games before bowing out.

You're right. I give up.


Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
If you look at it from the leadership qualities of either player strictly, I would never want to be on a team with Kobe Bryant, I don't care how good he is. The same things are said about Terrell Owens, or other selfish athletes. I would rather have a guy who is above average who is a great leader and makes those around him better. Can any of you think of who in the NBA is a great example of that?
Sure can. He played for the Celtics.


Originally posted by eagles_victory
is everyone an idiot except for you??
Everyone except Red Auerbach, George Mikan, Wilt Chamberlain, Oscar Robertson, and Julius Erving. But what would they know?

And if you want to argue championships, I'm prepared to argue championships.


Originally posted by eagles_victory
If you dont like MJ thats fine your entitled to your opinion but this seems like a case of someone trying to bring someone elses accomplishments down because of personal dislike
I don't dislike Mike. I saw his "last game" in the Alamodome (who knew he would un-retire a second time?) because I wanted to see him play that much. I loved watching him... but who didn't?

If anything, I can't stand Kobe. I think he's a punk, but I don't wear my rose-colored glasses on a day-to-day basis. Only where Auburn's concerned.

And if anything, I was reminding everyone that Kobe's not the only adulterer in the League. It seems like everyone forgets that.

[big daddy russ]

And guys, I'm sorry I was so pissed off yesterday. I had a few... 5,6... OK, I had a 12-pack at the pool before going on my rampage.

But I'm glad it happened. This is fun.

[eagles_victory]

how can you argue that Kobe is better then Mike based on championships. Your saying they had a 2 game worse regular season without Mike which is accurate however when the playoffs where it counts they went to the second round and MJ led them to the title imo thats not an argument for Pippen was almost as good as Jordan.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
how can you argue that Kobe is better then Mike based on championships. Your saying they had a 2 game worse regular season without Mike which is accurate however when the playoffs where it counts they went to the second round and MJ led them to the title imo thats not an argument for Pippen was almost as good as Jordan.
I'm not arguing that Kobe's better than Jordan. I'm arguing that he's just as good as MJ. He turned an elite team into a championship team.

Now as far as greatness, MJ's better. But as far as greatness, MJ can't touch Bill Russell. He turned a 30-win, non-playoff team into a championship team. I'd like to see Jordan trump that.

[KTA]

Bill Russell didnt play in the same NBA as Jordan did...the athletes were much better in Jordans era then Russells. You keep on saying that he turned a 30 win team to champions, ok ill agree to that...BUT do the bulls win those championships with out Jordan? Answer NO Houston can thank Jordan for his 1 1/2 year layoff. Also could you please tell me who the team was with the best over all single season record in the ENTIRE history of the nba, and who was there leader. Just for fun lets not even count nba titles and look at all the awards each player has won.....enough said!

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by KTA
Bill Russell didnt play in the same NBA as Jordan did...the athletes were much better in Jordans era then Russells.
Maybe so, but we're talking about the greatest, not the best player of all-time. Tex Winter's already said that Kobe's as good as MJ, but the NBA now is tons better than the NBA ten years ago. Which brings me to my next point...


Originally posted by KTA
You keep on saying that he turned a 30 win team to champions, ok ill agree to that...BUT do the bulls win those championships with out Jordan? Answer NO Houston can thank Jordan for his 1 1/2 year layoff. Also could you please tell me who the team was with the best over all single season record in the ENTIRE history of the nba, and who was there leader. Just for fun lets not even count nba titles and look at all the awards each player has won.....enough said!
No, it's not the same NBA. And unfortunately, we can only compare what Russell did against the most skilled center ever to play to weigh him against Jordan.

All Russell did was go 7-1 in playoff series against the Stilt's teams and dominate the head-to-head records. You can have your 50 points and 25 boards a game. Russell just wanted to win, baby.

And that's my mark of greatness. Who determined the outcome of a game more than anyone else in history? Jordan was great, but would he have won those championships without Pipp? Would he have led a team with a second-in-command like, say, Mitch Richmond to a title?

Russell, in the twighlight of his career, a 35-year-old, 12-year veteran that had played at least two playoff series every year and had tons of miles on the tires, went up against the trio of Chamberlain in his prime (Wilt was 30 at the time), Jerry West, and Elgin Baylor in the '69 NBA Finals. He went up against those guys with a supporting cast that would only manage to win 34 games the following season and won.

So tell me, who had a greater influence on the games in which he played? A guy that was the spearhead of an otherwise-elite (55-win) team or a guy who won 11 championships in the 13 years he played, no matter who he played with?

I know my answer.

Back to my question about the Jordan/Mitch Richmond tandem, there's a possibility that Jordan could've won a few titles with Richmond complementing him. But there's no doubt Russell would've won titles with Richmond complementing him.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
All Russell did was go 7-1 in playoff series against the Stilt's teams and dominate the head-to-head records. You can have your 50 points and 25 boards a game. Russell just wanted to win, baby. Exactly. Jordan had stats AND championships. He's got the best of both worlds.

Ask any NBA player who he'd rather play with in his prime and I would bet 95% would pick Jordan over Kobe.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
Exactly. Jordan had stats AND championships. He's got the best of both worlds.

Ask any NBA player who he'd rather play with in his prime and I would bet 95% would pick Jordan over Kobe.
Everyone except the old school. Most of the old-school players haven't handed the crown to Jordan yet. Auerbach conteded that it was Russell until he died. The Big O still does. So does Walt Frazier, JoJo White, Bob Cousy, and John Havlicek.

In the end, it depends on what your definition of "greatness" is. When the media crowned Jordan the "greatest" back in the mid-90's, it was a reporter out of Washington that started the whole thing. I can't remember his name for the life of me, but he said it right after Jordan's first retirement. It didn't catch on until Jordan came back and led the Bulls to their fourth title, but once it caught on, it snowballed from there.

These are the words from his article.

"His most important attribute, the single reason that he's the best ever, is his ability to dictate a game.... Jordan alone determines the outcome of the game."

Wait a second? This is the reason that he's calling Jordan the best ever?

It sure is. He gave that title to an underserving Jordan over Russell.

Unfortunately, even most basketball players fail to recognize the greatness of someone that doesn't possess great skills. As a matter of fact, take a guy like Danny Ainge, who just wants to assemble the best scorers in the league on one team, and you can see that this ideology is still widely-accepted by even the top NBA brass.

The reason that execs such as Kiki Vanderweghe, Bryan Colangelo, Jerry West, and Peter Holt/Greg Popovich have been so successful is their ability to find the parts to fit into a machine. They don't just throw money at statmasters like Vince Carter, Stephon Marbury, or Steve Francis.

Tim Duncan only gives you 20 points, 10 rebounds, and a couple of blocks a game. There are probably close to ten other guys that give you those numbers. Heck, Chris Bosh gives you those numbers. But Duncan's the greatest player in the NBA today. By that reporter's standards, Duncan's number one because nobody in the league dictates who wins a game more than Duncan.

This mark is the only real mark of greatness that you can rest your hat on... the one mark that outlasts any time frame. In the NBA's "hyper-media-coverage" era (the era since Bird and Jordan joined the league), only Jordan, Bird, Magic, Duncan, and Shaq can be considered "great"... with only Kobe and possibly LeBron on the current horizon.

But before the media started paying attention to the NBA... back when the league was an almost-bankrupt afterthought whose championship game was relegated to CBS... there was a guy who was greater than Jordan. Or Duncan. Or Magic. Or Shaq. Much greater. And that's indisputable...

11 titles in 13 years against players from the NBA's "Golden Age." Nobody will ever top that.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Everyone except the old school. Most of the old-school players haven't handed the crown to Jordan yet. Auerbach conteded that it was Russell until he died. The Big O still does. So does Walt Frazier, JoJo White, Bob Cousy, and John Havlicek.

In the end, it depends on what your definition of "greatness" is. When the media crowned Jordan the "greatest" back in the mid-90's, it was a reporter out of Washington that started the whole thing. I can't remember his name for the life of me, but he said it right after Jordan's first retirement. It didn't catch on until Jordan came back and led the Bulls to their fourth title, but once it caught on, it snowballed from there.

These are the words from his article.

"His most important attribute, the single reason that he's the best ever, is his ability to dictate a game.... Jordan alone determines the outcome of the game."

Wait a second? This is the reason that he's calling Jordan the best ever?

It sure is. He gave that title to an underserving Jordan over Russell.

Unfortunately, even most basketball players fail to recognize the greatness of someone that doesn't possess great skills. As a matter of fact, take a guy like Danny Ainge, who just wants to assemble the best scorers in the league on one team, and you can see that this ideology is still widely-accepted by even the top NBA brass.

The reason that execs such as Kiki Vanderweghe, Bryan Colangelo, Jerry West, and Peter Holt/Greg Popovich have been so successful is their ability to find the parts to fit into a machine. They don't just throw money at statmasters like Vince Carter, Stephon Marbury, or Steve Francis.

Tim Duncan only gives you 20 points, 10 rebounds, and a couple of blocks a game. There are probably close to ten other guys that give you those numbers. Heck, Chris Bosh gives you those numbers. But Duncan's the greatest player in the NBA today. By that reporter's standards, Duncan's number one because nobody in the league dictates who wins a game more than Duncan.

This mark is the only real mark of greatness that you can rest your hat on... the one mark that outlasts any time frame. In the NBA's "hyper-media-coverage" era (the era since Bird and Jordan joined the league), only Jordan, Bird, Magic, Duncan, and Shaq can be considered "great"... with only Kobe and possibly LeBron on the current horizon.

But before the media started paying attention to the NBA... back when the league was an almost-bankrupt afterthought whose championship game was relegated to CBS... there was a guy who was greater than Jordan. Or Duncan. Or Magic. Or Shaq. Much greater. And that's indisputable...

11 titles in 13 years against players from the NBA's "Golden Age." Nobody will ever top that. BDR, I'll save you the trouble of reading a long post. You are a perceptive guy. Reread my post. I never said that Jordan was the best ever. I'm saying that between MJ and Kobe, MJ wins hands down as a player and a leader.

[JR2004]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
BDR, I'll save you the trouble of reading a long post. You are a perceptive guy. Reread my post. I never said that Jordan was the best ever. I'm saying that between MJ and Kobe, MJ wins hands down as a player and a leader.

Well I'll say it...MJ was the best ever. One of the few non-Laker players that I found myself rooting for during his playing days. Kobe has a lot of work left to do to accomplish what MJ did during his career.

Anything accomplished by anyone who has ever worn a Celtic uniform is completely discounted by me. Then again I completely hate anyone and anything associated with that franchise so I'm 100 percent biased against any of their players or coaches. It still hacks me off that the Purple and Gold sunk low enough to make a deal to bring in Chris Mihm from those incompetent fools. To borrow a bit from Galloway, that should've been a fireable offense by Cupcake to have traded with your longtime enemy!

[KTA]

"These are the words from his article.".........prove it

God himself said Jordan was the best ever sometime back in 2000, it was in a article for that one magazine everybody reads....remember!!!

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by KTA
"These are the words from his article.".........prove it

God himself said Jordan was the best ever sometime back in 2000, it was in a article for that one magazine everybody reads....remember!!!
I'm not sure I can do that. I don't think the internet was all that big back then.

BTW, I'll admit it now before I, or anyone else, finds the article... the words I typed were paraphrased. But by all means, use that article to prove me wrong. Facts would be nice.

And I don't trust God. He lied to me about the Lotto last week.

[burnet44]

Kobe puts in 38-39
lakers lose
keep shooting Kobe

thanks