NYC to outlaw metal baseball bats???

[Adidas410s]

City Council might have votes to override bat veto
Associated Press

NEW YORK -- Mayor Michael Bloomberg said Monday he'll veto a bill to ban metal bats from high school baseball in the nation's largest school system, a change that supporters say would make the game slower and safer.

"I don't know whether aluminum bats are more dangerous or less dangerous," Bloomberg said. "But I don't think it's the city's business to regulate that."

It appeared, however, that the City Council would have enough votes to override a veto.

Similar measures have been proposed by youth leagues and lawmakers in other states, including New Jersey, where a batted ball struck a 12-year-old boy in the chest, sending him into cardiac arrest.

Sponsors of New York City's bill, passed last month, say that non-wood bats lead to faster and harder hits and that this can be dangerous for young players in the path of the balls.

Opponents, including Little League Baseball and sporting goods makers, say there is no scientific evidence proving metal bats pose more of a risk than wooden bats. They say the anti-metal movement relies on emotional anecdotes over concrete data, and some have indicated they will take the matter to court.

[Rabbit'93]

I don't think banning aluminum bats will stop accidents from happening. You just hope that it never happens.

[JasperDog94]

Here comes Big Brother to the rescue. Please Big Brother, save us from ourselves!:helpme: :helpme:

[big daddy russ]

You gotta be kidding me. They made my little brother play little league baseball with a mask on his helmet and a pitching machine throwing to him. I thought that was silly enough.

When are we going to stop crying about every little thing? Life comes with risks, and we all die in the end.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Life comes with risks, and we all die in the end. But what about my streak?

[wedo]

Getting hurt is part of the game!! When i was twelf i was pitching, threw a fastball and it was hit right back at me. Right in the eye as a matter of fact. The only thing that happened was my eyes was really really black and swollen for about a week and a half. It didn't stop me from playing! Parents need to quit babing their kids. After i got hit my mom told me to quit crying!!

[smustangs]

this is ridiculous, lets just kids and put them in a little bubble when they can never get hurt and never grow up and live life. cuz believe it or not no one gets out of here alive. if you dont want to get hurt and dont want the risk get off the field and dont come back

[AP Panther Fan]

I agree with Bloomberg, this isn't for the City of New York to decide.:rolleyes:

These people obviously haven't seen a wooden bat split and go flying...now THAT is dangerous.

[JasperDog94]

It's like huge spear flying through the air.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by wedo
Getting hurt is part of the game!! When i was twelf i was pitching, threw a fastball and it was hit right back at me. Right in the eye as a matter of fact. The only thing that happened was my eyes was really really black and swollen for about a week and a half. It didn't stop me from playing! Parents need to quit babing their kids. After i got hit my mom told me to quit crying!!

When umpiring a little league game a few years ago..I saw the same thing happen where the pitcher took a line drive to the face. However...he wasn't so lucky as it shattered his orbital bone and his eye came out of socket. It was very disturbing indeed... :(

That being said...I've called enough games to know that switching to wooden bats would REALLY hamper the game at the little league levels. Now once they are in HS and college...I don't see a problem with switching to wooden bats because the hitters are capable of generating enough power on their own. However in younger grades it would really change how the game is played.

[Macarthur]

I am in favor of going to wooden bats. I don't really agree with the city council getting involved. I think the people in the game need to regulate this.

It is a fact that the ball jumps off these aluminum bats at an amazing rate. The technology is getting more and more advanced and the bats are getting lighter and lighter. Someone is going to get killed. I find it ironic that no one has a problem with a batter wearing a helmet, but have a problem with getting rid of aluminum bats. What's the difference?

For the record, I am a former pitcher and SS in HS & college so I've been on both sides. The aluminum bats pose a real threat to pitchers and the aluminum bats inflate offensive numbers, also. You have HS kids that are 5'9" 170lbs hitting double digit HRs in a season. Come on..

I'm not one of these folks that believe you should take all risk out of our lives, but I do think this is a very disturbing trend. I played somewhere around 500 baseball games in HS & college and I never saw a pitcher get hit in the head, but now it's happening at an alarming rate. Going to wooden bats isn't going to keep someone from getting hit, but I firmly believe it will have an effect because the aluminum bats these days are amazingly juiced.

[DU_stud04]

Originally posted by Rabbit'93
I don't think banning aluminum bats will stop accidents from happening. You just hope that it never happens. agreed, ive hit some mean line drives with a wooden bat. i fell like i get better contact with a wood.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by Macarthur
Going to wooden bats isn't going to keep someone from getting hit, but I firmly believe it will have an effect because the aluminum bats these days are amazingly juiced.

Definitely. The speed at which the ball comes off an aluminum bat is much greater than that of a wooden bat. If changing to wooden bats is the easiest way to see a 30% reduction (hypothetical #) in the speed of the ball coming off the bat...then I'm all for it.

[DU_stud04]

Originally posted by Macarthur
I am in favor of going to wooden bats. I don't really agree with the city council getting involved. I think the people in the game need to regulate this.

It is a fact that the ball jumps off these aluminum bats at an amazing rate. The technology is getting more and more advanced and the bats are getting lighter and lighter. Someone is going to get killed. I find it ironic that no one has a problem with a batter wearing a helmet, but have a problem with getting rid of aluminum bats. What's the difference? the bats can not get lighter and lighter.... its a rule violation. unless these kids are using shorter bats, thats the only way they can acctually get "lighter" sustained by the -3 rule. i used a 32'' in highschool just to get that extra -1 ounce. maybe in these younger little leagues(8-12) make the bat regulations to be no more than -5 ....all in all the ball is going to come off the bat at a high rate of speed that your going to have to be ready for.

some bats have been outlawed, i remember in softball they made the "wicked"(i think) illegal because it had too much pop on it

people dont like the idea of wooden bats because that takes away from the "texas bloopers" and homeruns that some of the aluminum bats add to the game. personally like i said, ive always liked the wooden bat more than the aluminum.


Originally posted by Macarthur

I'm not one of these folks that believe you should take all risk out of our lives, but I do think this is a very disturbing trend. I played somewhere around 500 baseball games in HS & college and I never saw a pitcher get hit in the head, but now it's happening at an alarming rate. Going to wooden bats isn't going to keep someone from getting hit, but I firmly believe it will have an effect because the aluminum bats these days are amazingly juiced. agreed.

[smustangs]

Originally posted by DU_stud04
i fell like i get better contact with a wood.


thats wrong on so many levels haha
:devil:

[DU_stud04]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
You gotta be kidding me. They made my little brother play little league baseball with a mask on his helmet and a pitching machine throwing to him. I thought that was silly enough.
are you serious???? there is no fun in that.:dispntd:

[DU_stud04]

Originally posted by smustangs
thats wrong on so many levels haha
:devil: hey! arent you late for your trip to jacko land? i heard him calling for you...;)

[smustangs]

Originally posted by DU_stud04
hey! arent you late for your trip to jacko land? i heard him calling for you...;)

you told me yesterday you were going first then you would call and tell me how it was so i would know if i wanted to or not and you havent called yet so i didnt no you were done... so how was it?

[DU_stud04]

Originally posted by smustangs
you told me yesterday you were going first then you would call and tell me how it was so i would know if i wanted to or not and you havent called yet so i didnt no you were done... so how was it? how could i? i had a football game.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by DU_stud04
the bats can not get lighter and lighter.... its a rule violation. unless these kids are using shorter bats, thats the only way they can acctually get "lighter" sustained by the -3 rule. i used a 32'' in highschool just to get that extra -1 ounce. maybe in these younger little leagues(8-12) make the bat regulations to be no more than -5 ....all in all the ball is going to come off the bat at a high rate of speed that your going to have to be ready for.

some bats have been outlawed, i remember in softball they made the "wicked"(i think) illegal because it had too much pop on it

people dont like the idea of wooden bats because that takes away from the "texas bloopers" and homeruns that some of the aluminum bats add to the game. personally like i said, ive always liked the wooden bat more than the aluminum.

agreed.

The weight differentials are:
-3 for HS
-5 for senior league (15/16)
-7 for junor league (13/14)
- 12.5 or 13 for little league (12 and under)

Those numbers may have changed in the past year or two and I'm not positive on the little league one.

[DU_stud04]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
The weight differentials are:
-3 for HS
-5 for senior league (15/16)
-7 for junor league (13/14)
- 12.5 or 13 for little league (12 and under)

Those numbers may have changed in the past year or two and I'm not positive on the little league one. i thought 13-16 was one league in its own. at -5.....then -7 for everyone else.....hahaha, its been too long

i dont see the number really mattering till senior league. i think they should go up to -3 or start the wooden bats there if they were to do so.

[g$$]

You better have a big budget if you go all wood because you will be replacing bats frequently. No doubt the "exit speed" is much greater off aluminum. Hitting with wood is night & day from aluminum. The sweet spot on aluminum is about twice that of wood. Wood is the hardest to conquer no doubt if you have ever hit with both on a consistent basis. There are few "handle" hits with wood vs. aluminum.

That being said, the bats are very hot right now & something must be done. College baseball did it a few years back & it helped. But going all wood is not feasible or realistic. The cost is #1, plus it will change the game in so many ways for less skilled players, etc.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by DU_stud04
i thought 13-16 was one league in its own. at -5.....then -7 for everyone else.....hahaha, its been too long

i dont see the number really mattering till senior league. i think they should go up to -3 or start the wooden bats there if they were to do so.

13-16 is one big league...but only 13/14 can play in the lower league. Again...that could've changed last year or this though as I have been away from the game and not kept up with such things.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by g$$
You better have a big budget if you go all wood because you will be replacing bats frequently. No doubt the "exit speed" is much greater off aluminum. Hitting with wood is night & day from aluminum. The sweet spot on aluminum is about twice that of wood. Wood is the hardest to conquer no doubt if you have ever hit with both on a consistent basis. There are few "handle" hits with wood vs. aluminum.

That being said, the bats are very hot right now & something must be done. College baseball did it a few years back & it helped. But going all wood is not feasible or realistic. The cost is #1, plus it will change the game in so many ways for less skilled players, etc.

Well, there's no doubt you will have some broken bats.

I know some of these aluminum bats can go for more than $300.00.

A quick search on Eastbay shows wooden bats around $80.00.

I really don't think the cost would be that prohibitive because most parents buy their kid's bats these days anyway.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Macarthur
Well, there's no doubt you will have some broken bats.

I know some of these aluminum bats can go for more than $300.00.

A quick search on Eastbay shows wooden bats around $80.00.

I really don't think the cost would be that prohibitive because most parents buy their kid's bats these days anyway.

Disagree & have hit with both. Aluminum bats rarely break, & if they do, you can get 1 bat on replacement guarantee. Wood breaks all the time. Cost would be a big issue (ask the colleges why they hit with aluminum & have contracts with companies to do so).

Your figures are right on cost. Hitting with wood is a whole different thing. Your swing is different. You can't just drop the head out there & hook the ball anymore. You have to square it up or you will know it quickly. Trust your hands to get the bat in the hitting zone. Ask any scout the hardest thing for a player coming from aluminum to conquer & he will tell you hitting with wood.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by g$$
Disagree & have hit with both. Aluminum bats rarely break, & if they do, you can get 1 bat on replacement guarantee. Wood breaks all the time. Cost would be a big issue (ask the colleges why they hit with aluminum & have contracts with companies to do so).

I don't disagree that you will have many more broken bats. Don't you think the schools would work out the same type of contracts with the "wooden bat companies"?

It could very well cost more, but I'm telling you, someone is going to get killed. Then there will be an outcry to make changes. It's just a shame that someone will have to die before everyone puts the "financial considerations" aside and do what needs to be done.


Your figures are right on cost. Hitting with wood is a whole different thing. Your swing is different. You can't just drop the head out there & hook the ball anymore. You have to square it up or you will know it quickly. Trust your hands to get the bat in the hitting zone. Ask any scout the hardest thing for a player coming from aluminum to conquer & he will tell you hitting with wood. [/B]

You're right hitting with wooden is a whole different thing. It would seperate the men from the boys and you would know who could really hit. Again, you have 5'9" 170lbs kids hitting double digit HRs in HS. That's BS.

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by Adidas410s


That being said...I've called enough games to know that switching to wooden bats would REALLY hamper the game at the little league levels. Now once they are in HS and college...I don't see a problem with switching to wooden bats because the hitters are capable of generating enough power on their own. However in younger grades it would really change how the game is played.
I don't ever remember seeing a kid hit a homerun when I played. I doubt most kids could swing a wooden bat hard enough to get it into the outfield. Don't they weigh a lot more?

[Rabbit'93]

This is probably the most civil discussion I've seen on the low in some time.

emerson wood bats to tend to feel heavier than aluminum but all the weight is in the barrel of the bat.

I've played all my life and have coached for 4 years now. Injuries are happening but that is an aspect of any sport you cannot take out no matter how many precautions you take.

Macarthur just to add to your point some one has been killed by a line drive. It hit a 12 yr old in the chest between heart beats and caused his heart to stop. I can't remember where it happened though. Along those lines the same thing has happened to batters being hit by pitches. Do we regulate how fast the pitcher throws?

[Rabbit'93]

I found this on the Little League website:

USA Baseball’s Youth Committee Issues Statement on Non-Wood Bats WILLIAMSPORT, Pa. (Jan. 25, 2007) – The Youth Committee of USA Baseball today issued the statement below regarding non-wood bats.

Little League International is a member, along with other youth organizations, of USA Baseball. Little League also holds a seat on the USA Baseball Board of Directors.

USA Baseball often coordinates research that affects all youth baseball organizations. For example, USA Baseball was instrumental in the recent change to the league age determination date by all youth baseball organizations.

-----

USA Baseball, the National Governing Body (NGB) for the sport of baseball as designated by the Amateur Sports Act of 1978, recently held a meeting of its National Youth Membership, and on behalf of the following organizations has released the following statement:

1. American Amateur Baseball Congress (AABC)
2. American Legion Baseball
3. Dixie Baseball
4. Little League Baseball, Inc.
5. Babe Ruth Baseball
6. PONY Baseball
7. National Baseball Congress / Hap Dumont Baseball
8. Amateur Athletic Union (AAU)
9. United States Sports Specialties Association (USSSA)
10. National Police Athletic League (PAL)
11. T-Ball USA

PERCEPTION: Aluminum bats are more dangerous than wood bats.

The National Consumer Product Safety Commission studied this issue and concluded in 2002 that there is no evidence to suggest that aluminum bats pose any greater risk than wood bats. Multiple amateur baseball governing bodies, including the NCAA, National High School Federation, Little League International, PONY, et al, all track safety statistics and have concluded that aluminum bats do not pose a safety risk.

PERCEPTION: Balls come off aluminum bats faster than wood.

Since 2003, all bats are required to meet the “Bat Exit Speed Ratio” (BESR) performance limitation, which ensures that aluminum bats do not hit the ball any harder than the best wood bats.

PERCEPTION: Injuries from aluminum bats are more severe than with wood bats.

Two out of the three deaths from a batted ball in the last decade came from wood bats. Dr. Frederick Mueller, Director of the National Center for Catastrophic Sports Injury Research, has indicated from his studies that catastrophic injuries from wood bats may be more frequent than aluminum bats.

PERCEPTION: The Brown University study proves that aluminum bats hit the ball harder than wood bats.

This study is irrelevant by today’s standards. All of the bats used in the Brown study would not be allowed to be used today, because they do not meet the BESR standard.

PERCEPTION: The use of aluminum bats places children at an unacceptable risk of injury.

A study from the National Center for Catastrophic Sports Injury Research shows that there have been only 15 catastrophic batted ball injuries to pitchers out of more than 9,500,000 high school and college participants since 1982.

During the last five years a number of states, individual organizations, city councils, and others have proposed the banning of metal baseball bats on a number of different levels. These actions have typically been in reaction to a catastrophic injury as opposed to being based on creditable injury data or research. In May of 2002 the Consumer Product Safety Commission stated, “The Commission is not aware of any information that injuries produced by balls batted with non-wood bats are more severe than those involving wood bats”. This statement was true in 2002 and it is true in 2007.

The Medical/Safety Advisory Committee of USA Baseball was initiated due to the lack of injury data needed to make decisions affecting the safety of baseball participants. Prior to 2005 there has not been significant research comparing injuries to baseball pitchers from metal bats versus wood bats. In 2005 the USA Baseball Medical/Safety Committee initiated a three year research project comparing line drive baseball injuries to pitchers from metal bats and wood bats. Metal bat injury data were taken from the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) Injury Surveillance System and wood bat injury data collected from college summer leagues (NCAA recognized college summer league teams all use wood bats).

After two years (2005 and 2006) of collecting batted ball injury data to the pitcher from 93 NCAA college baseball teams and 246 college summer league teams there have only been 17 injuries to NCAA college pitchers and 15 injuries to college summer league pitchers. Only 32 injuries after 331,821 balls were hit into play (Balls hit into play are calculated by taking the number of at bats and subtracting strike outs and bases on balls). The injuries in the summer leagues were more severe than the NCAA injuries. One-third of the summer league injuries involved the head and face as opposed to none in the NCAA. The third year of the study will be completed in 2007.

What this data does indicate is that injuries to the pitcher from batted balls are very rare and can happen while using metal or wood bats. There is no data to indicate that the few catastrophic injuries to baseball pitchers from metal bats would not have happened if the batter was using a wood bat. Before any sport makes rule changes, equipment changes, or other changes related to the safety of the participants, it is imperative that these changes are based on reliable injury data and not anecdotal information.

[Emerson1]

Soon every kid in pee-wee football will have to wear padding like the sneezing kid in The Little Giants.

[HM33]

My opinion is that if you honestly think your kid will be more at risk with an aluminum bat. Then don't let him play... Thats so retarded. And as for the kids that get hit with the ball..... Simple solution.... USE YOUR GLOVE THATS WHY YOU HAVE IT!!!!

[Rabbit'93]

Found this from an article used by one of the opponents in NYC.

-Fifteen-year-old hit above the temple batted by a 5'10", 140 lb. boy, which resulted in a skull fracture, bleeding in the brain, and numbness on the left side, Seattle Times, June 26, 1998;

-Pitcher hit by ball, underwent surgery to place 11 metal plates and 22 screws in his head, Time-Picuayune, May 13, 1998;

-Seventeen-year-old hit in the temple, brain dead, dies, Los Angeles Times, August 2, 1998;

-Fourteen-year-old hit in the temple, dies, Gonzaga Bulletin, Summer, 1998;

- High school pitcher hit over the ear, brain bruise/temporary hearing loss; ended season and prospective collegiate athletic career, Spokesman-Review, April 24, 1997;

-Sixteen-year-old second baseman struck in chest, suffered sudden cardiac arrest, regained consciousness two days later, Buffalo News, June 5, 1994;

-Fourteen-year-old Anthony Ricci, took a line drive to the face resulting in his teeth being knocked out, a wired jaw and forty stitches to the face, Staten Island, June 2001.

[Rabbit'93]

Originally posted by HM33
My opinion is that if you honestly think your kid will be more at risk with an aluminum bat. Then don't let him play... Thats so retarded. And as for the kids that get hit with the ball..... Simple solution.... USE YOUR GLOVE THATS WHY YOU HAVE IT!!!! That's probably the most immature thing I've ever read.

[HM33]

No, its just how I feel... Immature? Maybe but its whatever :)

[DU_stud04]

Originally posted by Emerson1
Soon every kid in pee-wee football will have to wear padding like the sneezing kid in The Little Giants. hahahahaa, i love that part of that movie :)

[Macarthur]

Interesting. My gut instinct still wants to say this report has some flaws. Not to sound too conspiratorial, but I wonder if this study was financed independently.




PERCEPTION: Aluminum bats are more dangerous than wood bats.

The National Consumer Product Safety Commission studied this issue and concluded in 2002 that there is no evidence to suggest that aluminum bats pose any greater risk than wood bats. Multiple amateur baseball governing bodies, including the NCAA, National High School Federation, Little League International, PONY, et al, all track safety statistics and have concluded that aluminum bats do not pose a safety risk.



I'm sorry; I just don't buy it.



PERCEPTION: Balls come off aluminum bats faster than wood.

Since 2003, all bats are required to meet the “Bat Exit Speed Ratio” (BESR) performance limitation, which ensures that aluminum bats do not hit the ball any harder than the best wood bats.

Again, I do not believe that. I would like to see the details of these studies. I just do not believe that the wooden and metal bats on the market today have the same "Bat Exit Speed Ratio".


PERCEPTION: Injuries from aluminum bats are more severe than with wood bats.

Two out of the three deaths from a batted ball in the last decade came from wood bats. Dr. Frederick Mueller, Director of the National Center for Catastrophic Sports Injury Research, has indicated from his studies that catastrophic injuries from wood bats may be more frequent than aluminum bats.

I'm going to try and find this study because I simply do not believe it.


PERCEPTION: The Brown University study proves that aluminum bats hit the ball harder than wood bats.

This study is irrelevant by today’s standards. All of the bats used in the Brown study would not be allowed to be used today, because they do not meet the BESR standard.

So are we supposed to believe that all metal bats now have the same "jump" as wooden? I'm getting even more skeptical of this data.


PERCEPTION: The use of aluminum bats places children at an unacceptable risk of injury.

A study from the National Center for Catastrophic Sports Injury Research shows that there have been only 15 catastrophic batted ball injuries to pitchers out of more than 9,500,000 high school and college participants since 1982.

Well, first, what is the definition of catastrophic? And again, that number seems amazingly low. I'm gonna try to find this study.



Prior to 2005 there has not been significant research comparing injuries to baseball pitchers from metal bats versus wood bats. In 2005 the USA Baseball Medical/Safety Committee initiated a three year research project comparing line drive baseball injuries to pitchers from metal bats and wood bats. Metal bat injury data were taken from the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) Injury Surveillance System and wood bat injury data collected from college summer leagues (NCAA recognized college summer league teams all use wood bats).

In other words, they really have unreliable data before 2005...


After two years (2005 and 2006) of collecting batted ball injury data to the pitcher from 93 NCAA college baseball teams and 246 college summer league teams there have only been 17 injuries to NCAA college pitchers and 15 injuries to college summer league pitchers. Only 32 injuries after 331,821 balls were hit into play (Balls hit into play are calculated by taking the number of at bats and subtracting strike outs and bases on balls). The injuries in the summer leagues were more severe than the NCAA injuries. One-third of the summer league injuries involved the head and face as opposed to none in the NCAA. The third year of the study will be completed in 2007.

Completely irrelvant paragraph.

1. insufficient amount of data to draw any conclusion.
2. when dealing with "men" at the college level and beyond, the reflexes of the pitcher are much better and they have most likely had much more instruction on being in a proper fielding position after delivery.


What this data does indicate is that injuries to the pitcher from batted balls are very rare and can happen while using metal or wood bats.

Really!? No joke! That's not the point. The discussion is not about the odds of getting hit...



There is no data to indicate that the few catastrophic injuries to baseball pitchers from metal bats would not have happened if the batter was using a wood bat. Before any sport makes rule changes, equipment changes, or other changes related to the safety of the participants, it is imperative that these changes are based on reliable injury data and not anecdotal information. [/B]

I agree, but they are sending mixed messages. They are saying the data doesn't support metal bats are more dangerous. Yet, in the next breath they are making the case that they are not. This whole report doesn't pass the smell test, to me.

There was a report on OutSide the Lines (ESPN) a couple of months ago about major league pitchers that have gotten hit in the head. It was some of the most disturbing footage I've ever seen. The risk is always going to be there, but would anyone want to stand 60'6" away from Albert Pujols with an aluminum bat in his hands?

[BullFrog Dad]

I believe that some of the posters on this thread are against going to wood bats because it takes away any chance for them or their kids to go yard. Wood definitely separates the men from the boys as far as power and to some degree batting average.

[Macarthur]

I went to this site:


http://www.unc.edu/depts/nccsi/AllSport.htm

This is the National Center for Catastrophic Sport Injury Research headed by Dr. Frederick Mueller.

The data on this is really insufficent.

Here's a couple of snipits I found:

During the 2005 baseball season four high school pitchers were stuck in the head with batted balls. One pitcher recovered, two were non-fatal at the time of this writing, and one died. Two injuries took place in a game, one in batting practice, and one in a batting cage.

BASEBALL

HIGH SCHOOL

A high school baseball player collapsed at practice on April 4, 2005, and died on April 10, 2005. Cause of death was an enlarged heart.

An 18 year old male high school baseball player was hit by a batted ball behind the left ear while pitching in a game. The batter was using an aluminum bat. He was taken to the hospital by ambulance and had a full recovery.

A 16 year old male high school baseball player was hit in the head with a batted ball while pitching in a game on April 16, 2005. He had surgery and was placed in a drug induced coma. At the time of this writing he has incomplete recovery.

An 18 year old male high school baseball player was struck in the head by a batted ball while pitching batting practice on May 17, 2005. He was struck in the temple and suffered a fractured skull. Recovery is incomplete.

A 17 year old male high school baseball player collapsed and died during a pre-season workout. The accident took place on January 17, 2005. No other information was available.

A 14 year old male high school baseball player collapsed and died at baseball practice on May 14, 2005. Death was heart related.

On August 27, 2004 a 17 year old male high school baseball player was hit in the neck by a line drive batted ball while in the batting cage. The injured boy was pitching batting practice to a friend. The pitcher was behind an L-screen when hit. The ball ruptured the athlete’s carotid artery and resulted in the boy’s death.

These are some case studies. It seems to conflict the 15 number a couple of posts ago.

Also, there is some interesting data on this report about cheerleading injuries. IF you have some time, check it out. You wanna talk about something that is out of control. These girls have no business flying 10+ feet in the air with the other kids and many coaches/sponsors having no where near the training to do this safely.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Macarthur
I don't disagree that you will have many more broken bats. Don't you think the schools would work out the same type of contracts with the "wooden bat companies"?

It could very well cost more, but I'm telling you, someone is going to get killed. Then there will be an outcry to make changes. It's just a shame that someone will have to die before everyone puts the "financial considerations" aside and do what needs to be done.



You're right hitting with wooden is a whole different thing. It would seperate the men from the boys and you would know who could really hit. Again, you have 5'9" 170lbs kids hitting double digit HRs in HS. That's BS.

I firmly agree aluminum is more dangerous, absolutely. But, cost is the biggest issue as I have spoken with many college coaches about this (Mark Johnson, etc.). Professional players buy their own bats OR have contracts to endorse them. Teams do not buy them, something that surprised me when I worked for the Astros. Wood bat makers will not supply colleges the way Easton, Louisville Slugger, Worth, etc. do (& those companies make wood bats too). You would be amazed the rate at which pros go thru bats weekly. They have "gamers" & they have "BP" bats. It is all about cost & that is a shame. Plus, offensive #s would go way down. Look at the best hitters in the Cape Cod League each summer (wood bats) & then compare to their #s with aluminum. Night & day from experience as a player!

[CenTexSports]

Baseball is a brutal sport. I started playing football and baseball when I was 6 years old and played every year through high school. In all those years, I NEVER got hurt playing football (center and starting middle linebacker in HS). But I got hurt alot in baseball (broken arm, dislocated hip, torn rotator in shoulder, concussion the night before ACT's when I was beaned in a HS game, and bad knees from catching every year from 6 until 20).

Baseball should be banned for kids unless they wear football equipment.

[bhtrainer]

i think this thread is ridiculous...i mean why would you outlaw aluminum bats...if people choose to play baseball then they should know that there are dangers...if u dont like dangers...dont play...

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by g$$
I firmly agree aluminum is more dangerous, absolutely. But, cost is the biggest issue as I have spoken with many college coaches about this (Mark Johnson, etc.). Professional players buy their own bats OR have contracts to endorse them. Teams do not buy them, something that surprised me when I worked for the Astros. Wood bat makers will not supply colleges the way Easton, Louiville Slugger, Worth, etc. do (& those companies make wood bats too). You would be amazed the rate at which pros go thru bats weekly. They have "gamers" & they have 'BP" bats. It is all about cost & that is a shame. Plus, offensive #s would go way down. Look at the best hiiters in the Cape Cod League each summer (wood bats) & then compare to their #s with aluminum. Night & day from experience as a player!

Yeah, there's no doubt the cost would be higher.

I too think one of the motivations here is the reduction of offensive numbers.



bhtrainer

i think this thread is ridiculous...i mean why would you outlaw aluminum bats...if people choose to play baseball then they should know that there are dangers...if u dont like dangers...dont play...

There are certain dangers associated with certain sports. However, I think it's crazy to not do some things to minimize the risks especially when they will not affect the integrity of the game.

You think it's a good idea to wear helmets in football?

How about helmets in hockey?

shin pads for catchers?

Mouthpiece in football?

Batting helmet for hitters?

These are all things that help minimize the risk of injury yet do not mess with the integrity of the game.

[g$$]

Originally posted by Macarthur
Yeah, there's no doubt the cost would be higher.

I too think one of the motivations here is the reduction of offensive numbers.




There are certain dangers associated with certain sports. However, I think it's crazy to not do some things to minimize the risks especially when they will not affect the integrity of the game.

You think it's a good idea to wear helmets in football?

How about helmets in hockey?

shin pads for catchers?

Mouthpiece in football?

Batting helmet for hitters?

These are all things that help minimize the risk of injury yet do not mess with the integrity of the game.

Well said, & agreed.

[bhtrainer]

Originally posted by Macarthur
Yeah, there's no doubt the cost would be higher.

I too think one of the motivations here is the reduction of offensive numbers.




There are certain dangers associated with certain sports. However, I think it's crazy to not do some things to minimize the risks especially when they will not affect the integrity of the game.

You think it's a good idea to wear helmets in football?

How about helmets in hockey?

shin pads for catchers?

Mouthpiece in football?

Batting helmet for hitters?

These are all things that help minimize the risk of injury yet do not mess with the integrity of the game.

yeah those are things on your body...so what an aluminum bat hits harder...they cant eliminate all the problems...i mean geez whats next will we all be in bubbles so nobody gets scratched or bruised or hit...it happens...play the dang game

[g$$]

Originally posted by bhtrainer
yeah those are things on your body...so what an aluminum bat hits harder...they cant eliminate all the problems...i mean geez whats next will we all be in bubbles so nobody gets scratched or bruised or hit...it happens...play the dang game

You might want to quit before you dig a deeper hole on a subject you have little knowledge about. I have hit & played with both wood & aluminum, including college ball. Have you? I have seen injuries 1st hand playing & umpiring. Have you? Aluminum is way more dangerous concerning exit speed (BESR). The bats of today are hot, & injuries are occurring at an alarming rate. People have died. I challenge you to get on the mound with say, Albert Pujuols or Lance Berkman or Vlad Guerrero, swinging an aluminum bat (yes I know they are pros using wood, just an example).

I respect your opinions, but you are off-base here. Do the research before going over the top with "bubble" talk.

[bhtrainer]

i play softball and yes i know the bats are all different know...they are comin out with all kinds of new stuff... but still they cant take all the problems away...its just dumb...and i respect your opinion too...but thats just mine...its not possible to take dangers out of everything...

[g$$]

Originally posted by bhtrainer
i play softball and yes i know the bats are all different know...they are comin out with all kinds of new stuff... but still they cant take all the problems away...its just dumb...and i respect your opinion too...but thats just mine...its not possible to take dangers out of everything...

True, danger is part of playing, but measures can be taken to ensure more safety. An example would be making aluminum bats closer to wood bats as far as exit speed, etc. This has been discussed but aluminum bat makers don't want to do it for fear of lost business.

You want to know danger? Try slow pitch softball bats of today. Grown men (like me) swinging hot bats at little league dimensions on the infield. I have a bruise on my left shin from where I got hit 2 years ago next month. I got hit pitching - & threw the guy out at 1st base - but I am lucky to be alive. It was hit that hard, had no chance. Another one was brain damage in Houston to a guy pitching who had no insurance & the team was "going middle" on purpose. I saw a pitcher in college lose his 2 front teeth. It is scary & more is to come.

[Macarthur]

Those that do not agree with me on this, I hope you get the opportunity to see the Outside The Lines on this subject.

I don't know if ESPN.com has this stuff archived.

It is scary as hell. The sound of a baseball coming off a bat and hitting someone flush in the head is like nothing you will ever hear. Granted, the videos they showed were at the pro level, but with how these metal bats are juiced these days, the exit speed for HS & college kids is amazing, also.

Not to mention at the lower levels where the kids pitching have much slower reflexes.


bhtrainer

i play softball and yes i know the bats are all different know...they are comin out with all kinds of new stuff... but still they cant take all the problems away...its just dumb...and i respect your opinion too...but thats just mine...its not possible to take dangers out of everything...

No one is saying that will solve all the problems. We're just saying that it would be a reasonable measure to help minimize the risk and it would not mess with the integrity of the game.

Don't tell me you respect my opinion and then say "it's just dumb".