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Adidas410s
02-27-2007, 03:19 PM
In an attempt to boost sales for its stand-alone Blu Ray players, Sony announced a cheaper device for this summer, which will be sold for only $599.

Facing sluggish sales for its expensive $999 S1 Blu Ray player, Sony decided to cut the price and offer the BDP-S300 for about $600 (£300) - about $400 (£200) cheaper than Sony’s current BDP-S1.

According to the Japanese electronics producer, the new player will offer superior capabilities for a lower price, compared to its “bigger brother”. The capabilities include 1080p output and the ability to convert lower-quality signals to 1080p for output over the HDMI (high-definition multimedia interface) connector. It can also send out video at 24 frames per second, which is the rate used for films.

The S300 will be able to read CD formats, an important asset compared to S1, which only plays Blu Ray and DVD RW/R discs.

The new Blu Ray player will also feature an improved compatibility with Sony’s home theater brand Bravia, by sending signals from the player to the screen using the HDMI cable. When the initial BDP-S1 was launched, consumers complained about the lag registered between the button-push on the remote and the response of the S1 (which was about 2-3 seconds).

Also included is multichannel linear PCM digital audio output via HDMI, Dolby Digital Plus decoding, and compatibility with a host of optical disc formats, including the AVCHD format used by some high-definition video camcorders.

The device is much smaller than the S1, being the size of a regular DVD player sold today.

The new S300 will compete directly with Sony’s PlayStation 3 console, which is considered by many as the cheapest Blu Ray player on the market. There are two versions of the console, for $499 and $599, and Sony sold 1.8 million units last year.

"Eighty percent of people who buy a PS3 also buy Blu-ray movies to go with it," said Randy Waynick, senior vice president of the home products division of Sony Electronics.

"The consumers have determined that that's the format they're choosing to go with," he said, citing retail data from Nielsen VideoScan that showed Blu-ray discs outselling HD DVDs by almost three to one this year.

Nielsen VideoScan is home entertainment industry's leading source for competitive sales info, tracking point-of-sale data from all channels of video distribution including mass merchants, audio/video retailers, electronics outlets, grocery stores, drug stores, and internet sites.

According to VideoScan, during the first two weeks of January, Blu-ray discs outsold HD DVD by more than a 2:1 margin. It should be noted that the two weeks in question saw only two new high-def disc releases -- both from Blu-ray ('The Covenant' on Jan 2, and 'Crank' on Jan 9).

At a press conference in January at CES, Sony claimed supremacy over the installed base of Blu Ray players, generated mainly by PS3 owners, who were more than 1 million at that time. By comparison, Toshiba had only 175,000 HD DVD players sold. But the HD DVD camp emphasized their format’s high attach rates (which they annualize at 28 discs per player), while implying that most PS3 owners had yet to actually buy a single Blu-ray movie disc. Toshiba currently sells their HD DVD player for $499.

The larger installed base seems to favor Sony though. Understanding & Solutions’ co-founder Jim Bottoms declared that PS3’s ubiquitous presence in the living-rooms of so many people is a key factor for Blu Ray’s victory.

“Each group has got its advantages, but what really changes the picture is PS3. It is poised to be in virtually 25 million to 35 million homes in the next two to three years” said Jim Bottoms.

“If you look at what happened in 2006, 80% of what has sold through is Blu-ray. In 2007, [Blu-ray] will be at least that percentage again, but it won’t be a million players we’re talking about. We’re probably looking at something like 8 million units selling through this year across all product types and formats, so by the end of 2007, moving into 2008, it’s possible that 5% or 6% of U.S. homes will be owning a high-definition playback device. And about 80% of those devices will be Blu-ray.”

Stan Glasgow, president of Sony Electronics, told reporters that by this year’s Christmas, prices for Blu-ray players should be below $500.

Sony has previously complained that DVD players became a commodity product too soon, and that it was hard to make a profit in a market dominated by $50 units.

Glasgow predicted that Blu-ray players would take the same route.

"Over time, I think it will be just like DVD," he said.

Sony is engaged in the format-war with Toshiba, which produces the HD DVD discs and the adjacent player. In a move that seems to be a reminiscent of the Betamax-VHS war from the ’70 and the ’80, Sony declared that it will not provide any help to the adult film industry for their movies on its proprietary Blu-ray disc format, although the company will not try to stop them completely.

The Japanese electronics behemoth will not permit its disc replicating subsidiary, Sony DADC, to handle adult film titles. It appears that in markets where Sony has operations around the world it won't duplicate any movies above a certain rating or that have not been certified by a local motion picture association.

This has determined the porn industry (which cumulates revenues in US that top NBA and NFL revenues combined) to adopt the HD DVD as their next optical format for movies.

Sony wouldn't disclose exactly where it draws the line concerning the adult rating, but the rule means that adult movie makers will have to find someone else to reproduce their films in bulk. While other companies offer such services, the adult industry feels it is being cut out of the Blu-ray camp altogether. Several adult film companies said the issue is not just gaining access to the "replicators" that reproduce their movies in bulk, but that they also can't get help with technical issues from the companies backing Blu-ray Disc.

The Blu-ray Disc Association, which oversees the licensing of the technology, said on the other hand that it has not banned anyone from using the format. "We look forward to working with any content providers interested in providing their audience with the best possible high definition home entertainment experience," the group said in a statement.

Despite flat-lining DVD sales, the burgeoning high-def disc market and electronic sellthrough are projected to help increase worldwide U.S. studio movie revenue from $35 billion last year to $42 billion in 2010, according to a report by Adams Media Research.

The report also predicts 52.4% of the studios’ global revenue will originate from the United States in 2010, compared to 49.9% in 2006 — due largely to quicker uptake of high-def packaged media and electronic sellthrough domestically.

Snyder_TigerFan
02-27-2007, 03:22 PM
I might consider it whenever they get down to the $250-$300 range. I would also want a dual format player, since there doesn't seem to be a compromise between the two formats.

theyoefnshow
02-27-2007, 03:23 PM
blu ray porn in 3D would be hilarious.

Bull19
02-27-2007, 03:24 PM
WHATS BLU-RAY?

mwynn05
02-27-2007, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by theyoefnshow
blu ray porn in 3D would be hilarious. The porn industry went with HD DVD

Keith7
02-27-2007, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by Bull19
WHATS BLU-RAY?

a waste of money

un b weavable
02-27-2007, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Keith7
a waste of money

Give it a few years.

burnet44
02-27-2007, 04:20 PM
beta vs vhs

beta lost

TMer25
02-27-2007, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by Snyder_TigerFan
I might consider it whenever they get down to the $250-$300 range. I would also want a dual format player, since there doesn't seem to be a compromise between the two formats.


HD-DVD players will be in that price range by the holidays. Lots of Chinese manufacturers had demo units at CES that fell in that range.

TMer25
02-27-2007, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by burnet44
beta vs vhs

beta lost


Sony is going to win this time. HD-DVD is down to pretty much Universal being their only exclusive studio. There are a couple of smaller studios, but Sony has exclusivity from Fox, Disney, MGM, and of course Coulmbia Pictures.

Adidas410s
02-27-2007, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by TMer25
Sony is going to win this time. HD-DVD is down to pretty much Universal being their only exclusive studio. There are a couple of smaller studios, but Sony has exclusivity from Fox, Disney, MGM, and of course Coulmbia Pictures.

That plus the sales numbers are starting to turn in their favor. The ps3 is going to save them...even if their product may not be up to par with HD-DVD.

spiveyrat
02-27-2007, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by Adidas410s
even if their product may not be up to par with HD-DVD.


what do you mean?

spiveyrat
02-27-2007, 05:03 PM
If you're going to spend $600 on a Blu Ray player, you might as well buy a $600 PS3 that will do the same thing AND play games, surf the internet, store mp3's and movies, has an upgradable hard drive, etc etc etc...

TMer25
02-27-2007, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by Adidas410s
That plus the sales numbers are starting to turn in their favor. The ps3 is going to save them...even if their product may not be up to par with HD-DVD.

Well, luckily for them the latest Fox and Lions Gate releases have been flawless audio and video wise. Columbia's stuff is still hit or miss, though they seem to be improving since they decided to use the VC-1 codec for video on longer titles.

Txbroadcaster
02-27-2007, 05:05 PM
I honestly dont know if EITHER will truly win

The HD-DVD market is a niche market at the moment, and right now with a good upscaling DVD player a regular DVD looks great on a HDTV.

Ps3 sales are helping Blueray..BUT HDDVD sales of their movies still outsale blue-ray DVDs..One reason might be people buying the PS3 are not buying blue-ray movies to watch on the PS3

TMer25
02-27-2007, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by spiveyrat
what do you mean?

On lots of titles that have been released on both formats, the HD-DVD has usually been a little bit better video wise. Sony was hell bent on using MPEG2 for the video compression and it's just not very efficient when you try to cram that on a disc with a lossless audio track.

TMer25
02-27-2007, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
I honestly dont know if EITHER will truly win

The HD-DVD market is a niche market at the moment, and right now with a good upscaling DVD player a regular DVD looks great on a HDTV.

Ps3 sales are helping Blueray..BUT HDDVD sales of their movies still outsale blue-ray DVDs..One reason might be people buying the PS3 are not buying blue-ray movies to watch on the PS3


Actually for the month of February, the latest videoscan numbers have Blu Ray outselling HD DVD almost 2:1.

Txbroadcaster
02-27-2007, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by TMer25
Actually for the month of February, the latest videoscan numbers have Blu Ray outselling HD DVD almost 2:1.

Yea I forgot I was looking at Nov/dec sales

Txbroadcaster
02-27-2007, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by TMer25
Actually for the month of February, the latest videoscan numbers have Blu Ray outselling HD DVD almost 2:1.

ONE thing to consider..PS3 games are blue ray disc..and I cant find anything that says they are NOT included in the sales

If they are in the sales, then Blue ray gets the boost of more movie releases so far this year AND the games

spiveyrat
02-28-2007, 08:05 AM
Originally posted by Txbroadcaster

Ps3 sales are helping Blueray..BUT HDDVD sales of their movies still outsale blue-ray DVDs..One reason might be people buying the PS3 are not buying blue-ray movies to watch on the PS3

I've been hearing that BluRay has been outselling HDDVD at a 2:1 ratio. Also read yesterday that 80% of PS3 owners are buying Blu Ray. I'll have to look around and see if I can find that article again.

spiveyrat
02-28-2007, 08:10 AM
Originally posted by TMer25
On lots of titles that have been released on both formats, the HD-DVD has usually been a little bit better video wise.

I can believe that. Of the three that I own, Talledega Nights is just awful. It's grainy and just not a good HD experience. Invincible is hit and miss. Some scenes are nice. Some aren't. Flyboys is very nice!!! :thumbsup:

I have a link to a site that rates them, let me see if I can find it...

spiveyrat
02-28-2007, 08:29 AM
Here's an article that states the 80% number I quoted:

http://news.digitaltrends.com/article12357.html


What I don't understand when reading some of these articles is how they talk about the PS3 being the cheapest Blu Ray player, and it is, but they will quote right after that how "all other Blu Ray players" are around $1000. While true, you can buy one for $1K, I saw the Samsung BR player in Best Buy a couple of days ago for $699.
:thinking:

Heres a thread that rates Blu Ray movie quality:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=753726

TMer25
02-28-2007, 09:06 AM
The Samsung is a pretty horrible player. It originally shipped with a noise reduction chip turned on that wasn't supposed to be. There is an update disc that fixes it, but the Samsung still features some errors the more expensive players and the PS3 don't have at all.