Teams To Watch Out Of Each Region

[Old Tiger]

What are the teams to watch out or region 1, 2, 3, and 4? Region 3 for me would have to be Marlin.

[CHS_CG]

Hey old tiger.. I was talkin to Marlin fan, and he saidhe looked at their website and only 2 teams scored on them last year.. Caldwell and one other team... I am thinkin it might have been Smithville. I dont remember but we are on the look out for Marlin too!

[CHS_CG]

ok it was cameron not smithville

[marlin fan]

CHS_CG:
Hey old tiger.. I was talkin to Marlin fan, and he saidhe looked at their website and only 2 teams scored on them last year.. Caldwell and one other team... I am thinkin it might have been Smithville. I dont remember but we are on the look out for Marlin too!only two teams in our district scored on us

[jason]

Region II : Forney

[District303aPastPlayer]

i seriously think out of region 4, watch Taft.

[Sinton94]

I think Taft will finish third in district behind Sinton and Mathis.

[ThaRealBulldog]

Region II: Carthage and Forney

[Old Tiger]

I want to catch the Marlin/Burnet game.

[Matthew328]

it's gonna be the usual suspects...

Region I: Everman, Greenwood, Canyon, Sweetwater

Region II: Forney, Daingerfield, Carthage, Atlanta

Region III: Bellville, Marlin, Jasper, LaGrange

Region IV: Burnet, Pt Isabel, Rice Consolidated, Bandera

[true_blue_tiger]

<small>[ June 26, 2003, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: true_blue_tiger ]</small>

[true_blue_tiger]

region 1:Everman
Greenwood

Region 2:Forney
Daingerfield

Region 3:Jasper
Marlin

Region 4:Burnet
???????

[etcoach]

Region II- Daingerfield

Almost certainly DII. But with all due respect to those who place such credence in numbers (OC) they can play with anybody year in and year out, DI,DII 3A, 4A whatever.

[District303aPastPlayer]

i dont think sinton will win district... they lost EVERYONE!

[big daddy russ]

District303aPastPlayer:
i dont think sinton will win district... they lost EVERYONE!303a... I do think Sinton will win district. The only team that I could see beating them might be West Oso. Although you guys graduated everyone, your JV pounded every team they played by an average of something like 25 or 30 points. No disrespect at all intended to the defending state champs, but I actually think you will have a better team than Bandera and I think the Bulldogs are going to be tough.

[football]

cameron yoeman will be a young team but thet will be a team to watch out for when district rolls around GO YOE

[CHS_CG]

Caldwell is also goin to be another team with young players but watch them when they get mad! I know how most of our players can get when they get fired up! Hope Caldwell has a great season and keep an eye on us! GO SWARM! eek!

[Old Cardinal]

To ETCOACH: I know it galls you, but I believe that Forney, Everman, Jasper, Burnet and a half dozen others could have beat Daingerfield or any other Div II, in the previous post season....Which of those 4 named, do you feel that Daingerfield, could beat in the Post season-or for that matter, in the upcoming season?...I am the first to agree that in the preseason, small enrollment units can do an excellent job! The problem is that just a few stars hobbled, can seriously affect the Post season outcomes much easier for the small enrollments verses the big enrollments- with much more inherit depth. That is plain ole logic, even though its a bitter pill for folks like you, to swallow...

[PhiI C]

I know what you mean Old. In fact I have seen teams with larger enrollments change from a State Contender to a very good team with just one injury to the wrong player that plays at the wrong position. In fact there have been teams that had nearly all players coming back the next year but the one senior that they lost was a key one playing a key position and that made a difference. Of course it is generally more critical at schools with lower enrollments for obvious reasons as you stated.

[Z motion 10 out on 2]

I have my eye on Iowa Park. Had a good year last year and are bringing back some size and skill players. I think the coach has been there several years now so the players should be good with the system. I don't think they will be state chapms but playoff contenders for sure.

[etcoach]

To OC-
Yes it galls me. Only because of misinformation like you spew. Look at every year since the UIL split into two divisions. Statistics prove out that often the DII school that wins state has a larger enrollment than the DI school. And more often than not, the DI school doesn't even win their district. This past year, and even the year before that, I will agree, that the DI champion was considerably better than probably the top 10 DII schools. However, this past year, based on common opponents, I know that Daingerfield could have competed with and beaten Forney. Also, reread my original post... I said year in and year out.

BTW Logic very seldom has much to do with the outcome of a high school playoff game in Texas.

<small>[ June 30, 2003, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: etcoach ]</small>

[Old Cardinal]

To ETCoach...I really don't think I am putting out mis-information, I think that most folks would agree-your Daingerfield team losing to New Boston and Gladewater; as compared to Forney beating really good teams like Carthage and Atlanta is a no-comparison-situation. Forney was just plain much better than you! Forney played Everman to a 21-14 semi-final game and they would have mopped up the floor with Daingerfield: just as Jasper, Everman, and Burnet and others, would have and will-if given the opportunity this season!... I agree; however, most of the time a big enrollment wins Division II. My contention is that, fairly big-enrollments might not have been the best in Division I, had they had to compete there: where overall the most high-enrollment depth-loaded, post season strong performers teams are concentrated. They were just in a "unique situation" to take advantage of good small enrollment teams that were slowed by key injuries- and did not have adequate replacements during the Post season... Who really cares if you place 1st, 2nd, or 3rd in District-if you have trained and played 30+ good players most every ballgame in preseason and District play. That depth-factor compensation training, can propel you on up the Bracketing, and that is the final objective anyway. The "Final Four" and a number of other Divison I's next year, will again be better than Division II at postseason time; quite probably by an even greater margin!

[true_blue_tiger]

I'm agreeing with ETCoach on this one, Daingerfield like he said is a annual force to be reckoned with YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT in region 2. I mean anyone can be a powerhouse after dropping a to a lower class such as Everman, Carthage, and Jasper. I'm not saying that we would've beat the socks off of any of these teams, but I do believe we could hold our own against anyone. Look at Celina moving up in class. They move up and were the smallest team in 3A but still held their own. Or Southlake Carroll and Smithson Valley, two teams that were 4A the previous year and wind up playing for the 5A State Championship. DI schools may have 50-60 players on their sidelines, but how many play at a time, 11. Just like every other team in 3A.

[fury900]

Z motion 10 out on 2:
I have my eye on Iowa Park. Had a good year last year and are bringing back some size and skill players. I think the coach has been there several years now so the players should be good with the system. I don't think they will be state chapms but playoff contenders for sure.Coach changing from a Hawk to a LION
Bruce Merrell who left hawks' coaching staff to join the LIONS.
merrell was the hawk defensive coordinator for nine years.
merrell will coach the VERNON LIONS defensive linemen.

<small>[ June 30, 2003, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: fury900 ]</small>

[sinton66]

true_blue_tiger, you are right that only 11 play at a time. However, if you have 100-200 more kids to choose the BEST 11 from, it could make some difference. The post season has a way of hurting some teams due to lack of depth that larger enrollments will have. A key injury here or there, and some teams are out! I don't think anyone could have beaten Everman this last season, not even my Pirates (had we gotten there).

[PPHSfan]

Yea,

Even I agree that depth is nice, however I will never agree that it makes for a better team.

I wonder what would have happened last season if Celina had TWO Placekickers on their depth list?

[Matthew328]

true_blue_tiger:
I mean anyone can be a powerhouse after dropping a to a lower class such as Everman, Carthage, and Jasper. Dropping down a class doesn't guarantee success....many more 4A schools fail when they go to 3A than succeed....

[sinton66]

PPHSfan:
Yea,

Even I agree that depth is nice, however I will never agree that it makes for a better team.

I wonder what would have happened last season if Celina had TWO Placekickers on their depth list?I don't think even Old Card is saying that it makes for a better team, just one that will go farther in the playoffs. Sinton should have been near the top in 2000 also, but Alaniz went down with a broken collar bone. So much for that year. Several seasons ago Sinton should have gone far in baseball again (Back in the mid 90's). We had two excellent pitchers. The week before the playoffs began, they got into a fight with each other. One got a swollen up black eye, and the other got a broken finger on his pitching hand. So much for the playoffs that year! A little depth at key positions can go a long ways in some cases, not all, just some. wink

[Old Cardinal]

Thank you Sinton 66, I think they are blinded by their own paradigns!...Yes, at the first or mid- season: so later Bracket losers might be an equal or better team, midseason; but that is totally different than in Post season play performances. You have to have people who can step up and replace the STARS adequately. Everman is the best example that I know of, to fill this postseason role...

[PhiI C]

That is right Sinton 66. Plus if a team has more enrollment they can have different players on offense and defense and that means they can have an advantage in rest time which can make a difference sometimes when that fourth quarter comes around. I have seen it happen before and I am sure you have too.

[Owen B]

Old Cardinal,


…most of the time a big enrollment wins Division II.That’s just plain false. Last year was the first time a big enrollment school won the 3A D2 championship.

A little history…

Divisions 1 and 2 were introduced in 3A in 1998. All of the 3A finalists from the four years immediately preceding that have been in D2 ever since, except that Atlanta went D1 last year. The only reason it did was that both of the two larger schools in its district, including the 1999 D1 champion, failed to make the playoffs.

In 1997, Commerce beat Aledo 33-14 in the semifinals of the last overall 3A playoffs. The previous week, Sealy beat Cuero 31-0 in the quarterfinals. The next year, Aledo (now 4A) beat Cuero in the first-ever 3A D1 championship game.

Except for last year, the smaller of the two schools in the D2 final has won the championship. In three of five years, the D2 champion’s enrollment was in the lower half of 3A. In two of those years, the losing D2 finalist was larger than the losing D1 finalist. In another year, the losing D2 finalist (Forney) was larger than the D1 champion.

Sinton is another good counterexample. They made it to the D1 championship game in 2001, with an enrollment of only 617. That's smaller than three of the five LOSING D2 finalists, all of which were beaten by even smaller schools.

[etcoach]

Old Cardinal

Your last post proves my point. You argue that because Daingerfield lost Gladewater in a predistrict game and to New Boston(lesser teams in your opinion) and Forney beat Carthage and Atlanta (better teams in your opinion) Forney would wipe the field against D'Field. In case you didn't realize it, Atlanta and D'Field are in the same district and DF beat Atlanta by 11. Forney beat them by 14 in a game that according to those who attended was much closer than that. I actually agree with you in theory- larger schools have the POTENTIAL to have more depth and better teams in the post season. But in reality, MOST of those larger schools don't field any larger teams (numbers-wise) than traditionally strong programs with smaller enrollments. On any given night, any of the top 10 or so teams could beat the others, regardless of enrollment.

<small>[ June 30, 2003, 11:45 PM: Message edited by: etcoach ]</small>

[vet93]

Guys...I have argued on both sides of the fence of the large enrollment issue. By the way...I think that you have to talk about it in those terms because when you start talking DI vs DII the numbers are so muddled that it makes it difficult to make any valid points. I think that it is obvious that the larger enrollment schools have the POTENTIAL to be stronger because of their ability to absorb injuries, academic losses etc...as well as having the depth to have very few two way starters. That being said...many large schools have such a poor program and poor participation in football that their numbers are actually lower than say Celina who gets a large amount of participation from their student body. Then...when you factor in other issues such as tradition, the natural ebb and flow of talent from year to year, coaching, attitude etc...the predictability based on enrollment becomes less accurate. I like to point to Everman as my large enrollment example. They have good participation, have developed a good tradition and they have great coaching. These factors have made them a powerhouse. Celina is a great small school example. They have great paricipation, great tradition and great coaching. These factors have made them a powerhouse in 2A and a very, very good 3A team. Here is where the rubber meets the road though. When all things are equal in terms of coaching, tradition, team chemistry etc...the larger school is going to win probably 8 out of 10 times because of the advantages that enrollment will give them over time. Does that mean they can't be beat...no. Does it mean that a team like Celina can't win state...no. It just simply means that there are some advantages to having more kids. This advantage is directly proportional to the gap in enrollment between the two schools.

[PPHSfan]

Old Cardinal:
..., I think they are blinded by their own paradigns!......Old Cardinal,

How many times do I have to tell you. If you are going to use five dollar words, you need to at least spell them properly.

paradigm not paradign :D

[Bandera YaYa]

...thanks for always pointing that out to us....oh baby, oh baby....

[big daddy russ]

Owen B:
...Sinton is another good counterexample. They made it to the D1 championship game in 2001, with an enrollment of only 617. That's smaller than three of the five LOSING D2 finalists, all of which were beaten by even smaller schools.Actually, Sinton's enrollment went down by over 100 in one year. They had something like 740 two years ago (help me out with the exact number if you know it... I can't find my 2001 edition of Dave Campbell's) and it suddenly dropped to 617 last year. I don't know if they had a lot of kids absent on flash day or if they just had a "baby boomer" of a class in '01-'02, but it was really strange to lose that many kids in one year.

<small>[ July 01, 2003, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: big daddy russ ]</small>

[sinton66]

I very well could be wrong, but I don't remember Sinton ever having in excess of 700 kids, not even when they were 4A with Cuero and Calallen. Maybe SinFan75 or Sinton81 can tell us for sure. I will check some of my sources though.

I saw on Collier-Sharpe, that if Sinton had 740 students any year between 1994 and 1997, we would have been in 4A. Possible in '98 thru '02. '99 cut off was 779. '01 cutoff was 844. '03 cutoff is 899.

<small>[ July 01, 2003, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: sinton66 ]</small>

[true_blue_tiger]

True not everyone who drops to a lower classification is always a powerhouse, for example Chapel Hill, but I'm just saying that a average-good 4A team dropping down should usually do better in 3A. As for the fact that bigger schools have more to choose from, in some cases thats true, but Daingerfield regularly dresses out around 35-40 players during the reg. season and over 50 during playoffs. If I remember correctly Celina had over 60 suited out when we playedl. and even if Celina had another place kicker on the team, only one can kick the ball at a time!

[Owen B]

Sinton's enrollment for UIL classification in 2000/2001 was 634. They went to the State finals during the 2001/2002 school year, the same school year they reported an enrollment of 617 to UIL for the current alignment. That’s why I used that figure, but 634 would have worked as well. Sinton was and is smaller than the losing D2 finalists in 1999, 2000, and 2001.

2000-2001 UIL Enrollments (http://www.uil.utexas.edu/ath/align/2000/rank.html)

Mathis is another good example of a relatively small school doing well in Division 1, although not consistently. They are smaller than Sinton and a lot smaller than Gatesville and Burnet, but in 1999, they beat Sinton, Gatesville, and Burnet on their way to the D1 championship game. The next year, Gatesville won the D1 championship. The two following years, Sinton and Burnet made it to the D1 championship game.

Nobody’s arguing that a large enrollment isn’t an advantage. If it weren’t, there wouldn’t be five UIL conferences. Other things being about equal, a larger school is more likely than a smaller one to be competitive, but small schools can successfully compete, and win, against good large schools. That’s not speculation. They’ve done it.

[Old Dog]

Talk is all that comes from having D1 & D2! It just boils my blood how the UIL has screwed things up so badly! There is no way to prove who is really best (maybe that's what the honchos in Austin want). We are left with half a--ed, watered down championships.

[Old Dog]

<small>[ July 01, 2003, 09:52 PM: Message edited by: Old Dog ]</small>

[PhiI C]

Actually Sinton has a smaller enrollment that the D2 champion in 2002 but that's the breaks. I still like the current system better than the old days.

[PPHSfan]

true_blue_tiger:
.... If I remember correctly Celina had over 60 suited out when we playedl. and even if Celina had another place kicker on the team, only one can kick the ball at a time!True Blue,

Celina may have suited 60 players, but that was because it was the playoffs and they can suit everyone frome the ninth grade up. And my point about the kicker was that, the May kid had injured his ankle the week before, and if they had another kicker, the May kid would have been Watching that extra point attempt, not kicking it.
But the main reason I said anything was just too razz you about the game. :p

And I think that was probably obvious to everyone but you. :D

[big daddy russ]

Owen B... the state sets a flash day every year to take enrollment for every individual school. The Division I team can change from one year to another even if it's not during a realignment.

[Owen B]

big daddy russ:

The enrollment Sinton reported to UIL in 2000/2001 school year, the same year as their D1 final appearance, was 617. Two years before that, they reported an enrollment of 634. Even if their enrollment was substantially different in other years, it would not affect what I wrote.

[bheagledad22]

Don't count Barbers Hill out. Because for the first time in four years we have lots of experience returning. Seven starters on defense, and five on offense. In the four years that we have won district, we've had little or no experience. We have lost Carrington at tailback, but I think Casey Shows will take up the slack. What you don't realize, last year's district champion team was made up of mostly underclassmen who have never played varsity football. That is a testiment to our coaching staff. Now they have the experience players to put on the field, so don't count your chickens before they hatch. Good luck to all the teams in District 22-AAA and Region 3.

[clay]

How is ol' coach Merrell? He was in Wimberley under Nelms early 90's, Did a great job with are D-line.

[clay]

Sorry that question is for fury900.

[audasmom7]

Im going to go ahead and tell all of yall that size does not mean a thing in 3a football nomatter what. All of yall talk about how big everyone is going to be but what about thier heart and thier want to play as a team. No disrespect toward Daingerfield or anything but I think they could of won state if they played as a team and this comes from a guy that played them last year in the playoffs. Yea they were big and faster but it just seem to me like they didnt care after the fiest half of the game. And they were ten times biger than any of our guys. NO disrespect!

Jeremy Audas #7

[Kool Tarpon 21]

I agree with you Audasmom. Size does not matter. It matters how much you want it. You'll be surprised by how much a little person can do when they want to win. Us too played a bigger team in the playoffs. Aransas Pass had all their guys twice as big as ours. We wanted to win so bad and we did. The tallest person we have in our team is like 6'1. We only have like two or three guys that are that tall. Everyone else is shorter than that. I don't think size matters, but I might be wrong. Well, see you all later.