MLB's greatest all-time?

[big daddy russ]

The A-Rod thing got me thinking on the way home. I went from who's the best SS in baseball today, to who's the best SS of all-time, to who would be my all-time team.

I want to know your team by position. One player for all everyday positions, five starters, and three relievers.

Some tough decisions. CF won't be easy. Hell, three of the 10 all-time best played in the same city at the same time. Same with SS, C, and 2B.

So who you got?

[Pmoney]

well for SS-Cal Ripken Jr., no question about it
C-Thurman Munson-turned the Yanks around
1B-Jeff Bagwell-well if his time could have lasted just a few yrs longer
S Pitcher-Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens, Satchel Paige, Catfish Hunter, and someone else

[Who-dun-it!!?]

Craig Biggio at several positions not only for his talent, but for his team loyalty and versitility.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Pmoney
well for SS-Cal Ripken Jr., no question about it
C-Thurman Munson-turned the Yanks around
1B-Jeff Bagwell-well if his time could have lasted just a few yrs longer
S Pitcher-Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens, Satchel Paige, Catfish Hunter, and someone else
Some nice picks in there. Munson went before his time, but he was great while he was here. Paige had tons of success in the Negro Leagues and may have gone down as the greatest pitcher ever if he would've spent his entire career in the majors.

[Pmoney]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Some nice picks in there. Munson went before his time, but he was great while he was here. Paige had tons of success in the Negro Leagues and may have gone down as the greatest pitcher ever if he would've spent his entire career in the majors.
ya...

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
The A-Rod thing got me thinking on the way home. I went from who's the best SS in baseball today, to who's the best SS of all-time, to who would be my all-time team.

I want to know your team by position. One player for all everyday positions, five starters, and three relievers.

Some tough decisions. CF won't be easy. Hell, three of the 10 all-time best played in the same city at the same time. Same with SS, C, and 2B.

So who you got?

This is so much pressure. I will have to sleep on it and work on my line up tomorrow when I'm well rested!! :nerd: :D

[big daddy russ]

BTW, my quick list would look something like this. And remember, no right or wrong answers, this is all based on opinion.

C: Roger Bresnahan (more for his ability to manage the game than his natural talents)
1B: Lou Gehrig
2B: Gonna go with Rogers Hornsby, though it was tough between him, Eddie Collins, Joe Morgan, and Jackie Robinson
3B: Mike Schmidt
SS: Gonna go with Honus Wagner-- toughie
RF: Babe Ruth
CF: Willie Mays
LF: Ted Williams



SP: Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson, Sandy Koufax (LHP), Nolan Ryan, and 'Old Hoss' Radbourn

RP: Dennis Eckersley, Mariano Rivera, and Rollie Fingers



I'm sure I'm forgetting some guys, but there's my list for now.

[JR2004]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Some nice picks in there. Munson went before his time, but he was great while he was here. Paige had tons of success in the Negro Leagues and may have gone down as the greatest pitcher ever if he would've spent his entire career in the majors.

Paige is far and away my favorite pitcher of all-time. He was a bit on the cocky side as a player, but he had every reason to be and he sure could back up his talk. I watched "Don't Look Back" (Story of Paige's life played by Lou Gossett JR) for the first time yesterday and that was a great movie to watch.

If you look on Wikipedia, you can see more about this guy. I remembered some of the names of his pitches, but wikipedia had this list of them.

Hesitation Pitch
Bat Dodger
Hurry-Up Ball
Midnight Rider
Four-Day Creeper
Nothin’
Bee Ball
Jump Ball
Trouble Ball
The Two-Hump Blooper
Long Tom
The Barber
Little Tom

Too bad baseball doesn't have more characters like him around these days. It'd make the game more interesting.

[eagles_victory]

C- Johnny Bench
1B- Lou Gheirg
2b- Joe Morgan
3B- Brooks Robinson
SS- Cal Ripken
RF- Babe Ruth
CF- Willie Mays
LF- Ted Williams

Pitchers: Sandy Kofax, Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemons , Bob Gibson , Walter Johnson

Relievers: Trevor Hoffman, Dennis Eckersley, Mariano Rivera

[coach]

pitcher: Nolan Ryan

Catcher: Ivan "Pudge" Rodriguez

1b: Albert Puljols

2b: Ernie Banks

3b: Mike Schmidt

SS: The Wizard, Ozzie Smith

LF: Barry Bonds

CF: Willie Mays (The Greatest Baseball player of all time)

RF: Mikey Mantle

DH: Henry Aaron

think that would win a few world series?

[Vrabird]

Catcher-Johnny Bench
1st Base-Lou Gehrig
2nd base-Rogers Hornsby
3rd Base-Brooks Robinson
SS-Honus Wagner
Left Field-Ted Williams
Center Field-Mickey Mantle
Right Field-Babe Ruth

Starters--Cy Young,Walter Johnson,Sandy Koufax,Bob Gibson,and Nolan Ryan
Relievers--Rollie Fingers,Goose Gossage,Bruce Sutter.

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by coach

SS: The Wizard, Ozzie Smith totally who entered my mind when Russ posed the question. :thinking: anyway - I still want to sleep on it. :D

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by coach
pitcher: Nolan Ryan

Catcher: Ivan "Pudge" Rodriguez

1b: Albert Puljols

2b: Ernie Banks

3b: Mike Schmidt

SS: The Wizard, Ozzie Smith

LF: Barry Bonds

CF: Willie Mays (The Greatest Baseball player of all time)

RF: Mikey Mantle

DH: Henry Aaron

think that would win a few world series? Barroid has no place on any greastest of all time teams, and no i dont that team wouldnt even make the playoffs ryan would tire out after about the first 35 games being the only pitcher

[SintonFan_inAustin]

Ripken change the SS position from just being a defensive position and open the game to more power hitting shortstops.

[maestro]

i liked ozzie at short....

and also luis aparicio there also...

yes, i'm old...

[SintonFan_inAustin]

Greatest All-Time.......Babe Ruth and Cy Young:evillol:

[Vrabird]

Had to go back a few years to find some of my all time greats!!!

[88bobcats]

He might not have been the best athlete, but the best ball-playin' first baseman, and certainly the most entertaining, has to be John Kruk.

His interview on David Letterman was absolutely hilarious. He corrected Letterman, saying something like, "Look, Dave. I am not an athlete. I'm a ball-player."

Kruk is my all-time favorite player to watch, especially with a big chaw in his cheek.....

[Vrabird]

His reaction to Randy Johnson throwing that pitch behind his head is a classic!!! He put his helmet on backwards and decided to finish his at bat right handed.

[Bull Butter]

C- Johnny Bench, Ivan Rodriguez
1B- Stan Musial, Lou Gehrig
2B- Rod Carew, Joe Morgan
SS- Ernie Banks, Honus Wagner
3B- Brooks Robinson, Mike Schmidt
OF- Willie Mays, Ted Williams, Mickey Mantle, Henry Aaron, Roberto Clemente, Babe Ruth
SP- Sandy Koufax, Walter Johnson, Nolan Ryan, Cy Young, Tom Seaver, Roger Clemens, Warren Spahn, Greg Maddux
RP- Dennis Eckersley, Rich "Goose" Gossage, Bruce Sutter, Trevor Hoffman
Manager- Casey Stengel, Sparky Anderson, Tommy Lasorda

[SintonFan_inAustin]

Could Babe Ruth be consider the best pitcher/hitter in baseball?

[Bull Butter]

Originally posted by SintonFan_inAustin
Could Babe Ruth be consider the best pitcher/hitter in baseball?

Absolutely. He was one of the greatest hitters of all time, but a pretty good pitcher too.

[Bull Butter]

Ask for this same list again in about 10 years and the name Albert Pujols will be on there somewhere

[Reds fan]

Originally posted by Bull Butter
C- Johnny Bench, Ivan Rodriguez
1B- Stan Musial, Lou Gehrig
2B- Rod Carew, Joe Morgan
SS- Ernie Banks, Honus Wagner
3B- Brooks Robinson, Mike Schmidt
OF- Willie Mays, Ted Williams, Mickey Mantle, Henry Aaron, Roberto Clemente, Babe Ruth
SP- Sandy Koufax, Walter Johnson, Nolan Ryan, Cy Young, Tom Seaver, Roger Clemens, Warren Spahn, Greg Maddux
RP- Dennis Eckersley, Rich "Goose" Gossage, Bruce Sutter, Trevor Hoffman
Manager- Casey Stengel, Sparky Anderson, Tommy Lasorda

Two come to mind that could have been among the greatest:
J. R. Richards and Roberto Clemente tragic endings to both careers:(

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Bull Butter
C- Johnny Bench, Ivan Rodriguez
1B- Stan Musial, Lou Gehrig
2B- Rod Carew, Joe Morgan
SS- Ernie Banks, Honus Wagner
3B- Brooks Robinson, Mike Schmidt
OF- Willie Mays, Ted Williams, Mickey Mantle, Henry Aaron, Roberto Clemente, Babe Ruth
SP- Sandy Koufax, Walter Johnson, Nolan Ryan, Cy Young, Tom Seaver, Roger Clemens, Warren Spahn, Greg Maddux
RP- Dennis Eckersley, Rich "Goose" Gossage, Bruce Sutter, Trevor Hoffman
Manager- Casey Stengel, Sparky Anderson, Tommy Lasorda
Nice little list. Roberto Clemente's a forgotten man, but he may have been the best defensive RF of all time. May have had the biggest cannon ever.


I wish I knew more about Josh Gibson. He owns the professional record for most HR's ever, but I don't know anything about his defense or how he managed the game. You look at the all-time greats at the position and they're all close. Bench, Berra, Bresnahan, Pudge, Fisk, Mickey Cochrane, etc, etc. If Gibson was as good with the glove as he was with a bat, he'd be an easy write-in at C.

And yeah, I know I said MLB's greatest of all time, but I should've included the Negro Leagues. I don't know much about them, but they had some players who may have gone down as the best ever had they played in the majors. Cool Papa Bell, Gibson, Satchel Paige, Buck Leonard, Ray Dandridge, Oscar Charleston, etc etc.

Like I said, I only know the big names and really don't know much about them other than a few numbers here and there, but if anyone has any info feel free to share it.

[injuredinmelee]

C- Pudge
1B- Albert Pujols
2B- Ryne Sandberg
SS- Arod
3B- Brooks Robinson ( Dean Palmer... joking joking)
RF- Andre Dawson
CF- WIllie Mays
LF- Hank Aaron
DH- Mark McGwire
p- Nolan Ryan, Satchel Paige, Roger Clemens, Greg Maddux, David Clyde
Closers- Dennis Eckersley, Lee Smith, Mariano Riveria

SKipper- Lasorda

Radio Announcer- Vin Scully

[CenTexSports]

C - Yogi
1B - Lou Gehrig
2B - A-Rod (if he can play third, he can play second)
3B - George Brett (Brooks a close second)
SS - Ozzie (just ahead of Cal because of his team leadership)
OF - Mickey Mantle, Ted Williams, Babe Ruth

P - Randy Johnson

Relief - Too many to choose
Quiesenberry & Eckersly


No one should be on this list unless you can just write done one name (first, last or nickname) and everybody knows who you are talking about.

[DUKE22]

I know I am going to leave someone off but this would be mine

1st Base - Albert Pujols
2nd Base - Ryne Sanberg
Short Stop - Ozzie Smith (Im going for defense)
3rd Base - Brooks Robinson
Left Field - Barry Bonds
Center Field - Willie Mays
Right Field - Babe Ruth
Catcher - Ivan Rodriguez
DH - David Ortiz

Starting Five

Clemens
Koufax
Gibson
Randy Johnson
Tom Seaver

Bullpen

Dennis Eckersly
Rollie Fingers
Mariano Rivera

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
BTW, my quick list would look something like this. And remember, no right or wrong answers, this is all based on opinion.

C: Roger Bresnahan (more for his ability to manage the game than his natural talents)
1B: Lou Gehrig
2B: Gonna go with Rogers Hornsby, though it was tough between him, Eddie Collins, Joe Morgan, and Jackie Robinson
3B: Mike Schmidt
SS: Gonna go with Honus Wagner-- toughie
RF: Babe Ruth
CF: Willie Mays
LF: Ted Williams



SP: Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson, Sandy Koufax (LHP), Nolan Ryan, and 'Old Hoss' Radbourn

RP: Dennis Eckersley, Mariano Rivera, and Rollie Fingers



I'm sure I'm forgetting some guys, but there's my list for now.
I knew I'd forget some people. Nix Ryan, throw in Lefty Grove as my other SP.

[Eagles52]

Originally posted by injuredinmelee
C- Pudge
1B- Albert Pujols
2B- Ryne Sandberg
SS- Arod
3B- Brooks Robinson ( Dean Palmer... joking joking)
RF- Andre Dawson
CF- WIllie Mays
LF- Hank Aaron
DH- Mark McGwire
p- Nolan Ryan, Satchel Paige, Roger Clemens, Greg Maddux, David Clyde
Closers- Dennis Eckersley, Lee Smith, Mariano Riveria

SKipper- Lasorda

Radio Announcer- Vin Scully

Andre Dawson over Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle, Stan Musial, Ted Williams?

[Eagles52]

Anyone who has Nolan Ryan over Roger Clemens just has rose colored glasses on or something. Nolan Ryan is my favorite player ever, but he just wasn't as incredibly great as Clemens. You can make an argument that Ryan at his best is the most unhittable pitcher of all time, that's easy, but when you look at overall career, consistency, it was easier to reach base and score on Ryan than against Clemens. It depends on if you're trying to put together the greatest of all time or more of your favorites. So if you're making a list of all time greats who are just your preferences, then do it however you'd like, but if your life depended on fielding the best possible team on paper (not worrying about matchups, etc.), then would anyone's list change? This is my team, though there are arguments to be made for several positions. If I had to field a team in real life, I might make some changes to get a balanced lineup, some speed, power, defense mixed, etc. but here's off the top of my head

C- Bench, Pudge
1b- Gehrig, Pujols
2b- Morgan, J. Robinson
SS- ARod, Ripken
3b- Schmidt, Brooks Robinson, Morgan Ensberg
LF- Ted Williams, Barry Bonds
CF- Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle
RF- Babe Ruth, Stan Musial, Jason Lane

SP: Walter Johnson, Roger Clemens, Bob Gibson, Sandy Koufax, Tom Seaver

Long/Middle Relief- Lefty Grove, Greg Maddux, Christy Mathewson
Setup: Eck, Hoffman
Closer- Mo Rivera

[CenTexSports]

Almost non of the lists has George Brett and I can't see why. Brooks and Mike S were excellent but Brett was an above average fielder and he hit .300 plus for his career. He almost hit .400 one year. He has to be at least considered for the greastest third basemen of all time.

Also, I'll take the 1961 Yankees against any allstar team you want to put out there.

[Keith7]

Here are the players I think were the best of all time.. I may be alittle biased tho


C - Pudge
1b - MarkTexeira
2b - Ian Kinsler
SS - Mike Young
3b - Dean Palmer
LF - Juan Gonzalez
CF - Otis Nixon
RF - Babe Ruth

SP: Nolan Ryan, Rick Helling, Goose Gossage, "Oil-can" Boyd, Kevin Millwood

Long/Middle Relief- Bobby Witt
Setup: Eric Gange
Closer- John Wettland

[themsu97]

Ryan was an all time great, as is Tom Seaver... Maddux, way overrated...
SP- hard to guage here, Young, Koufax, Satchell Paige, Lefty Grove, Gibson, but would have a young Ryan here for pure gas... so it would be Paige, Young, Gibson, Koufax and Drysdale... not to mention Herschiser...
C- bench, with Munson as the back up... love Yogi... but he could be my utility player
1b- Gehrig or Stargell
2b- Morgan/Robinson
ss- Smith/ Wagner, imho, Ripken, though I love him, is just another average player without the streak... of course that did save baseball to a degree...
3b- Schmidt/Robinson or Brett
LF-Ted Williams or even a Yaz
CF- Mays and mantle
RF- Ruth with Clemente
Closer, either Sutter or Gossage...
somewhere on my bench are Dave Parker, talk about a cannon, Kirby Puckett and Stan Musial along with Yogi...
bottom line is too many favorites and greats to pick from...

[crzyjournalist03]

Originally posted by Keith7
Here are the players I think were the best of all time.. I may be alittle biased tho


C - Pudge
1b - MarkTexeira
2b - Ian Kinsler
SS - Mike Young
3b - Dean Palmer
LF - Juan Gonzalez
CF - Otis Nixon
RF - Babe Ruth

SP: Nolan Ryan, Rick Helling, Goose Gossage, "Oil-can" Boyd, Kevin Millwood

Long/Middle Relief- Bobby Witt
Setup: Eric Gange
Closer- John Wettland

Dean Palmer over Hank Blalock??? Are you crazy??? The rest of the team looks fine to me though...:D

[crzyjournalist03]

C-Ivan Rodriguez
1B-Mark McGwire
2B-Ryne Sandberg
3B-Mike Schmidt
SS-Cal Ripken Jr.
LF-Barry Bonds
CF-Willie Mays
RF-Tony Gwynn

Starting pitchers: Babe Ruth, Nolan Ryan, Sandy Koufax, Roger Clemens, Cy Young

Relievers: Lee Smith, Mariano Rivera, Dennis Eckersly

I'm picking guys in their prime here...I realize McGwire went up in flames, but I'll take him in the late nineties over any player...I picked Gwynn in right field with the assumption that my pitchers are going to hit, and Babe Ruth was an all-time great pitcher and probably could have made the HOF on his pitching stats alone!!!

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by CenTexSports
Almost non of the lists has George Brett and I can't see why. Brooks and Mike S were excellent but Brett was an above average fielder and he hit .300 plus for his career. He almost hit .400 one year. He has to be at least considered for the greastest third basemen of all time.
I can see that, but I'm also surprised Pie Traynor's name hasn't come up. He was my second behind only Schmidt, although A-Rod will pass them both if he stays at the hot corner and both David Wright and Miguel Cabrera (a part-timer) have a great chance of being in the discussion when it's all said and done.


Originally posted by CenTexSports Also, I'll take the 1961 Yankees against any allstar team you want to put out there. [/B]
I'd actually take the '27 Yanks over the the Maris/Mantle/Berra bunch.

1- Earle Combs, CF (HOF)
2- Tony Lazzeri, 2B (HOF)
3- Babe Ruth, RF (HOF)
4- Lou Gehrig, 1B (HOF, 1927 AL MVP)
5- Bob Meusel, LF (HOF)
6- Mark Koenig, SS
7- Joe Dugan, 3B
8- Pat Collins/Benny Bengough/Johnny Grabowski C


SP
1- Waite Hoyt (HOF)
2- Herb Pennock (HOF)
3- George Pipgras
4- Dutch Ruether
5- Urban Shocker

Relief
Setup- Myles Thomas
Closer- Wilcy Moore (Led the majors in saves, with 13)

Four of their eight everyday players had OBP's above .400, four had more than 100 RBI, six had batting averages above .300, and there's this: Babe Ruth broke his own record for home runs in '27 with 60.

Lou Gehrig finished second with 47. Outside of Ruth, nobody had ever hit that many dingers.

But let's take it a step further. Lazzeri hit 18 dingers that year, good for THIRD in the AL. So the Yanks had the #1, 2, and 3 power hitters in the the league that year. And if that wasn't enough for you, Bob Meusel and Tony Lazzeri (both of whom knocked in over 100 RBI) finished second and third in stolen bases. It would be like a single team nowadays having a lineup that looked something like this:

1- Ichiro Suzuki
2- Carlos Beltran
3- Barry Bonds three years younger and still on the juice
4- Albert Pujols
5- Bobby Abreu
6- Michael Young (some power, but tons of RBIs)
7- who cares... think of an average 3B
8- Jason Varitek

What about the pitching?

Glad you asked. Hoyt, Shocker, and Moore ranked 1, 2, 3 in both winning percentage and ERA. Cy Moore led the majors in saves. Hoyt and Pennock are enshrined at Cooperstown while Shocker and Hoyt had All-Star-type seasons.

It's too bad there wasn't an All-Star game until '33. I would've loved to have seen who made it from this team.

As far as defense, short of Tinker/Chance and Alomar/Vizquel, Lazzeri and Koenig were maybe the best middle infield tandem of all time. Combs was one of the best defensive CF's of his day (Ty Cobb was the other), and Lou Gehrig was possibly the second-best defensive 1B of all time (Bill Terry) and 3B Joe Dugan was stellar.

[CenTexSports]

I used to have a boss who was around in the 20's and 30's and he made the same argument about the Yanks. However, I grew up in the early 1960's and I watched them every week on Saturday baseball when they were on. Those guys are my heros. I still have a faded Mantle autographed baseball I got in either '61 or '62 at Montgomery Wards on 7th Street in Ft. Worth.

For my money the 1961 Yanks were the best team ever.

[pirate4state]

Catcher - Yogi, Bench, Pudge
1B - Lou Gehrig, Jackie Robinson, Stan Musial and Bill Buckner :D
2B - Rogers Hornsby, Joe Morgan, Pete Rose
3B - Wade Boggs, George Brett, Brooks Robinson & Mike Schmidt (damn and I'm leaving some really good ones out :eek: )
SS - Ozzie Smith, Omar Vizquel, Cal Ripken Jr.,
LF - Ted Williams, Barry Bonds
CF - Ty Cobb, Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle, Dale Murphy
RF - Hank Aaron, Roberto Clemente, Reggie Jackson, Ichiro Suzuki

Pitchers - Babe, Sandy Koufax, Roger Clemens, Nolan Ryan, Satchel Paige, Maddux, Smoltz, Eckersley, Rivera (dang that's alot of pitchers and still more I want to add)

Even though I'm not a big fan of the DH here is who I'd want:

DH - Tony Gwynn, David Ortiz

This is MY list don't knock it!!! :p :p

[Bearkat]

1. Ty Cobb OF
2. Michael Young SS
3. Ken Griffey Jr. OF
4. Alex Rodriguez 3B
5. Pudge C
6. Mark Grace 1B
7. Tony Gwynn DH
8. Ryne Sandberg 2B
9. Ichiro OF


SP-Nolan Ryan, SP-Roger Clemens, SP-Randy Johnson, SP-Cy Young, SP-Greg Maddux

Closer-Dennis Eckersley

[Eagles52]

Originally posted by Bearkat
1. Ty Cobb OF
2. Michael Young SS
3. Ken Griffey Jr. OF
4. Alex Rodriguez 3B
5. Pudge C
6. Mark Grace 1B
7. Tony Gwynn DH
8. Ryne Sandberg 2B
9. Ichiro OF


SP-Nolan Ryan, SP-Roger Clemens, SP-Randy Johnson, SP-Cy Young, SP-Greg Maddux

Closer-Dennis Eckersley

This can't be your serious attempt at an all time great team, can it? Please tell me it isn't?!?!?

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Eagles52
Anyone who has Nolan Ryan over Roger Clemens just has rose colored glasses on or something. Nolan Ryan is my favorite player ever, but he just wasn't as incredibly great as Clemens. You can make an argument that Ryan at his best is the most unhittable pitcher of all time, that's easy, but when you look at overall career, consistency, it was easier to reach base and score on Ryan than against Clemens.
Why not? The worst ERA Ryan ever posted during a full season was 3.80, and he struck out 209 batters that season. Rocket had four full seasons with a 4-plus ERA.

Oh, and hitters only batted .174 against Ryan during his entire career. Clemens' number stands at .206.

Ryan didn't play for any great teams outside the '69 Mets, but he was the more dominant pitcher.

[Eagles52]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Why not? The worst ERA Ryan ever posted during a full season was 3.80, and he struck out 209 batters that season. Rocket had four full seasons with a 4-plus ERA.

Oh, and hitters only batted .174 against Ryan during his entire career. Clemens' number stands at .206.

Ryan didn't play for any great teams outside the '69 Mets, but he was the more dominant pitcher.

Well for starters, it may have been harder to HIT Ryan but it was easier to reach base because he would walk and nail so many batters. Some people blow out of proportion that he was on so many bad teams, not that you did, its just common. For Ryan's career, his teams were over .500. That's a start, I'll be back with more stats later

[Eagles52]

Winning %-
Ryan- .526
Clemens- .662

ERA
Ryan 3.19
Clemens 3.10

H/9
Ryan 5.6
Clemens 6.9

BB/9
Ryan 4.9
Clemens 2.4

Ryan- Career WHIP-1.247
Clemens- WHIP - 1.170

Ryan- # of Cy Youngs- 0
Clemens- 7

I'm having trouble finding a website with OBP against and stuff like that, but just judging by WHIP, and hits and walks per nine innings, I'm pretty sure Clemens #'s for that will be better also. This would make my point that it was easier to both reach base and score on Ryan than on Clemens.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Eagles52
Well for starters, it may have been harder to HIT Ryan but it was easier to reach base because he would walk so many batters. For Ryan's career, his teams were over .500. That's a start, I'll be back with more stats later
Ryan had a TRA (Total Run Average) of 3.64. Clemens had a TRA of 3.43.

The Angels were pretty bad during the 70's (only made the playoffs in '79), the 'Stros were spotty during the 80's, but had some good years, and the Rangers were only OK. Clemens has only known contenders outside of his stint with the 'Jays.

Using winning percentage without considering the outside factors, you'd have some people saying that they'd rather have Chien Ming-Wan instead of Ben Sheets.

I can see where you're going, but Ryan was definitely more consistent and there's plenty of reasons to consider Ryan instead of Clemens.

[Who-dun-it!!?]

Originally posted by coach
pitcher: Nolan Ryan

Catcher: Ivan "Pudge" Rodriguez

1b: Albert Puljols

2b: Ernie Banks

3b: Mike Schmidt

SS: The Wizard, Ozzie Smith

LF: Barry Bonds

CF: Willie Mays (The Greatest Baseball player of all time)

RF: Mikey Mantle

DH: Henry Aaron

think that would win a few world series?

I wonder how many are left of this list if steroids disqualified them?