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eagles_victory
02-16-2007, 03:02 PM
Dont know if this has been posted yet or not


Former Miami Heat guard Tim Hardaway said on a radio show Wednesday afternoon that he would not want a gay player on his team.

Tim Hardaway
Hardaway

"You know, I hate gay people, so I let it be known," Hardaway said. "I don't like gay people and I don't like to be around gay people. I am homophobic. I don't like it. It shouldn't be in the world or in the United States."

Hardaway was a guest of Miami Herald columnist Dan Le Batard on Miami sports radio station WAXY-AM and was asked how he would deal with a gay teammate. When asked if he would accept an active player's coming out, such as that of retired NBA center John Amaechi, Hardaway replied: "First of all, I wouldn't want him on my team.

"And second of all, if he was on my team, I would, you know, really distance myself from him because, uh, I don't think that's right. And you know I don't think he should be in the locker room while we're in the locker room. I wouldn't even be a part of that," he said.
John Amaechi on the radio
Mike & Mike
John Amaechi appeared on "Mike & Mike In The Morning" on Thursday to respond to Tim Hardaway's comments. Best of Mike & Mike

• On ESPN Radio's The Pulse: Dan Le Batard recounts his reaction to Hardaway's comments. Listen

His former coach, Pat Riley, told a Miami radio station on Thursday that "[Hardaway's attitude] would not be tolerated in our organization," the South Florida Sun-Sentinel reported.

"Yes, I was shocked by some of the words that he used," Riley said on WQAM-AM, according to the newspaper. "It's a tough subject to talk about if you're not really thinking about it a lot. It's one-sided. But I was a little bit shocked by some of the words that he used.

"But I do know that Tim's a good spirit, and I'm sure now he wished he could take all of that back," Riley added, the newspaper reported. "And I hope he's not severely judged by his spewing of some of those words. That kind of thinking can't be tolerated. It just can't."

NBA commissioner David Stern, upon learning of the remarks Wednesday, banished Hardaway from All-Star weekend in Las Vegas.

"It is inappropriate for him to be representing us given the disparity between his views and ours," Stern said in a statement Thursday.

Stern said he had not spoken with Hardaway, who left Las Vegas on Thursday, but he planned to do so.

While Stern said a discussion about openly gay players could be part of future rookie orientation programs, he doesn't see a need to address the league.

"This is an issue overall that has fascinated America. It's not an NBA issue," Stern said, pointing to the ongoing debate over gay marriage at the state and federal levels.

"This is a country that needs to talk about this issue," he said. "And, not surprisingly, they use sports as a catalyst to begin the dialogue."

Hardaway apologized for his comments, which came a week after Amaechi became the first former NBA player to say he was gay.

"As an African-American, I know all too well the negative thoughts and feelings hatred and bigotry cause," Hardaway said Thursday in a statement issued by his agent. "I regret and apologize for the statements that I made that have certainly caused the same kinds of feelings and reactions.

"I especially apologize to my fans, friends and family in Miami and Chicago. I am committed to examining my feelings and will recognize, appreciate and respect the differences among people in our society," he said. "I regret any embarrassment I have caused the league on the eve of one of their greatest annual events."

Hardaway, who played in five All-Star Games during the 1990s, was already in Las Vegas and scheduled to make a series of public appearances this week on behalf of the league. He attended an NBA Cares event at a Las Vegas YMCA with Knicks forward Jerome Williams on Tuesday. The ex-U.S. Olympian was also originally scheduled to be an assistant coach at a wheelchair game Thursday night and later appear at the fan-oriented Jam Session.

Le Batard, who also writes for ESPN The Magazine, quoted Amaechi in a Miami Herald column saying the ex-NBA player was grateful for Hardaway's words.

"Finally, someone who is honest," he said. "It is ridiculous, absurd, petty, bigoted and shows a lack of empathy that is gargantuan and unfathomable. But it is honest. And it illustrates the problem better than any of the fuzzy language other people have used so far."

Thursday morning, on ESPN Radio's Mike & Mike in the Morning, Amaechi said although the reaction to his coming out has been "overwhelmingly positive," Hardaway's comments seemed to trigger similar statements from others.

"Every comment that [Hardaway] made is labeled with hate," Amaechi said. "The percentage of e-mails I've received overnight that are going to have to go into a little box somewhere just in case I end up dead are unbelievable. He's been a lightning rod for people to finally open the floodgates and decide that they can say some pretty awful stuff.

"I will say this about the Tim Hardaway comments and the comments of people like him ... these are the loud comments that pollute the air," Amaechi said. "These are the comments that create the atmosphere that allow some of the tragic incidents of homophobia that we've seen. This is what makes the lives of gay and lesbian young people in schools miserable. It's what stops gay and lesbian people in the workplace from coming out as well as the fact they can be fined in 33 states for being gay. These are part of the problem."

Hardaway apologized late on Wednesday for the remarks during a telephone interview with Fox affiliate WSVN-TV in Miami.

"Yes, I regret it. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said I hate gay people or anything like that," he said. "That was my mistake."

Hardaway played for five NBA teams from 1990-2003 and was a five-time All-Star. He finished with averages of 17.7 points and 8.2 assists.

On Mike & Mike on Thursday morning, Amaechi also said he was heartened by the NBA's response to Hardaway's comments.

"I think Commissioner Stern is absolutely right. ... I've been in contact with the NBA offices and it is not the views of the NBA as an organization," he said. "I don't think that people give NBA players enough credit ... some of them definitely don't agree with those views"

Two major gay and lesbian groups denounced Hardaway's remarks.

"Hardaway's comments are vile, repulsive and indicative of the climate of ignorance, hostility and prejudice that continues to pervade sports culture," said Neil Giuliano, president of the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation. "And by apologizing not for his bigotry but rather for giving voice to it, he's reminding us that this ugly display is only the tip of a very large iceberg."

Said Matt Foreman, president of the National Gay & Lesbian Task Force: "Hardaway is a hero to thousands of young people. And that's what makes his comments so troubling. Sadly, his words simply put the pervasive homophobia in the NBA on the table."

Amaechi taped a spot Thursday for PBS' gay and lesbian program "In the Life." He said the anti-gay sentiment remains despite Hardaway's apology.

"It's vitriolic, and may be exactly what he feels," he said. "Whether he's honest or not doesn't inoculate us from his words. It's not progress to hear hateful words."

DU_stud04
02-16-2007, 03:06 PM
the guy is "homophobic"...who cares, i dont see why people are always tryin to make a big deal over nothing.

Gobbla2001
02-16-2007, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by eagles_victory
"That kind of thinking can't be tolerated. It just can't."



Minority Report or something?

CenTexSports
02-16-2007, 03:10 PM
He is not homophobic, he was taught right from wrong and he was voicing his opposition to what he considered to be an abhorant lifestyle. Why should his beliefs be put down? He has just as much right to believe this as anybody else. He may have stated it in a forceful way that could have been more PC but so what?

Gobbla2001
02-16-2007, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by CenTexSports
He is not homophobic,

the word homophobic offends me...

Bullaholic
02-16-2007, 03:32 PM
To say that you "hate" or intend harm to another person because of their beliefs, race, nationality, religion, sex, or lifestyle is unacceptable and terms such as "homophobic" may indeed apply, and such behavior should be discouraged by all persons.

To say that you choose not to associate with a person because of any of these above factors may be considered "discriminatory", and while not desirable by modern societal standards, does not rise to the level of "homophobia" , "racism", or "sexist" and are, IMO, entirely in the pervue of the individual's conscience choices.

Bandera YaYa
02-16-2007, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by CenTexSports
He is not homophobic, he was taught right from wrong and he was voicing his opposition to what he considered to be an abhorant lifestyle. Why should his beliefs be put down? He has just as much right to believe this as anybody else. He may have stated it in a forceful way that could have been more PC but so what?

Gobbla2001
02-16-2007, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by Bandera YaYa


huh?

:p

crzyjournalist03
02-16-2007, 03:35 PM
over/under on this thread being locked...

I give it an hour and a half.

pirate4state
02-16-2007, 03:36 PM
OMG....I can't see straight!! :crazy1:

I can not believe this!!! *pulling out my hair*

Gobbla2001
02-16-2007, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
over/under on this thread being locked...

I give it an hour and a half.

I say we don't go on threads and talk about them being locked the next 2,554,091,222,588,121 hours...

Hansum Stranger
02-16-2007, 03:37 PM
I was proud of Tim for stating his beliefs, as his is the same as mine. I lost some respect for Tim when he later apologized for saying what he said. Don't ever apologize for your beliefs.

pirate4state
02-16-2007, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by CenTexSports
He is not homophobic, he was taught right from wrong and he was voicing his opposition to what he considered to be an abhorant lifestyle. Why should his beliefs be put down? He has just as much right to believe this as anybody else. He may have stated it in a forceful way that could have been more PC but so what?

There is a word for what he is alright and homophobe doesn't begin to cover it.

He has the right to say whatever he wants, but he also needs to stick with it if he believes in it so strongly.

Hansum Stranger
02-16-2007, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by pirate4state
He has the right to say whatever he wants, but he also needs to stick with it if he believes in it so strongly.

So true, so very true :clap: :clap: :clap:

DU_stud04
02-16-2007, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by Hansum Stranger
I was proud of Tim for stating his beliefs, as his is the same as mine. I lost some respect for Tim when he later apologized for saying what he said. Don't ever apologize for your beliefs. :clap: :clap: :clap:

SWMustang
02-16-2007, 03:41 PM
I think if we can keep the discussion on the level of - is it OK to say these things - we should keep it open. I remember when the uproar over the Dixie Chicks comments came out. People quit buying the records and radio stations quit playing their music. There was an outcry over 1st Amendment rights. Doesn't the same apply here? He's already taking heat for his comments - the NBA has distanced themselves from him.

CenTexSports
02-16-2007, 03:42 PM
I hate murderers and child molesters. There has to be a line of right and wrong and Tim's belief and many others draws the line BEFORE you get to gay lifestyles. If he had indicated that he was scared of or intended to do harm to someone for being gay then the term homophobic might apply but I don't think simply hating someone for a deviant behavior goes that far.

Gobbla2001
02-16-2007, 03:43 PM
this thread is gay...

pirate4state
02-16-2007, 03:45 PM
What usually gets these threads closed is when people start bringing in the religious aspect and start calling each other names. Just keep it out of this thread and don't start calling people "idiots, morons, stupid, gay, racist, etc..." for their beliefs and we are fine & dandy! You have the right to express your opinion, but you should know by now that if someone disagrees they will let you "hear" about it. Sometimes in a civil manner and sometimes in a not so civil manner. :rolleyes:

Gobbla2001
02-16-2007, 03:46 PM
isn't a phobia a fear? I aint scared of gay people... unless they're all outside of my house with guns and stuff, then I might start to worry...

Adidas410s
02-16-2007, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by Gobbla2001
this thread is gay...
what a homophobe :rolleyes:

Bullaholic
02-16-2007, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by pirate4state
OMG....I can't see straight!! :crazy1:

I can not believe this!!! *pulling out my hair*

LOL. Let's see now---so far today we have had threads on:

politics
religion
lifestyles

That leaves some of these to go:

abortion
race
stem cell research
Iraq War

Hmmmmm.......let's see now----which one would Rita have the most fun moderating......... :devil: :D

carter08
02-16-2007, 03:50 PM
As long as they don't hit on me, they can do whatever they feel like

pirate4state
02-16-2007, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by Bullaholic
LOL. Let's see now---so far today we have had threads on:

politics
religion
lifestyles

That leaves some of these to go:

abortion
race
stem cell research
Iraq War

Hmmmmm.......let's see now----which one would Rita have the most fun moderating......... :devil: :D

That wasn't why I said that. There is so much I want to say, but when I get "worked up" I never seem to be able to verbalize what I REALLY want to say. :( I have to stop seeing the dots and then I can usually form complete sentences. :nerd: :o

Blastoderm55
02-16-2007, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by carter08
As long as they don't hit on me, they can do whatever they feel like

I didn't mind getting hit on the couple of times its happened. I'd rather get asked out by a pretty guy than an ugly girl, personally.

BTEXDAD
02-16-2007, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by CenTexSports
He is not homophobic, he was taught right from wrong and he was voicing his opposition to what he considered to be an abhorant lifestyle. Why should his beliefs be put down? He has just as much right to believe this as anybody else. He may have stated it in a forceful way that could have been more PC but so what?

True, centex. I very seldom quote the Bible, but some of the politically correct people in world (many of whom claim to be Christian) should read the following which we had discussed in adult Bible class at our church some years back.

Leviticus Chapter 20 vs. 13: If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Although it doesn't specifically say it in words, the Bible does infer that any type of adultery, including "lusting for someone in your heart" which most people have done is just as bad of a sin as homosexuality. However, the difference is that a heterosexual can repent and be forgiven. Homosexual can not repent because since they continue to live in that lifestyle their repentance has no meaning in the eyes of God.

Blastoderm55
02-16-2007, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by BTEXDAD
True, centex. I very seldom quote the Bible, but some of the politically correct people in world (many of whom claim to be Christian) should read the following which we had discussed in adult Bible class some years back.

Leviticus Chapter 20 vs. 13: If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Although it doesn't specifically say it in words, the Bible does infer that any type of adultery, including "lusting for someone in your heart" which most people have done is just as bad of a sin as homosexuality. However, the difference is that a heterosexual can repent and be forgiven. Homosexual can not repent because since they continue to live in that lifestyle their repentance has no meaning in the eyes of God.

What usually gets these threads closed is when people start bringing in the religious aspect and start calling each other names. Just keep it out of this thread and don't start calling people "idiots, morons, stupid, gay, racist, etc..." for their beliefs and we are fine & dandy! You have the right to express your opinion, but you should know by now that if someone disagrees they will let you "hear" about it. Sometimes in a civil manner and sometimes in a not so civil manner.

Bullaholic
02-16-2007, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by pirate4state
That wasn't why I said that. There is so much I want to say, but when I get "worked up" I never seem to be able to verbalize what I REALLY want to say. :( I have to stop seeing the dots and then I can usually form complete sentences. :nerd: :o

If you had a webcam hooked to your PC---how many times do you think you would have been rommed today, Rita? :D

DU_stud04
02-16-2007, 03:59 PM
it was a joke....

pirate4state
02-16-2007, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by BTEXDAD
True, centex. I very seldom quote the Bible, but some of the politically correct people in world (many of whom claim to be Christian) should read the following which we had discussed in adult Bible class at our church some years back.

Leviticus Chapter 20 vs. 13: If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Although it doesn't specifically say it in words, the Bible does infer that any type of adultery, including "lusting for someone in your heart" which most people have done is just as bad of a sin as homosexuality. However, the difference is that a heterosexual can repent and be forgiven. Homosexual can not repent because since they continue to live in that lifestyle their repentance has no meaning in the eyes of God.

:doh: :doh:

BTEXDAD
02-16-2007, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by Blastoderm55
I didn't mind getting hit on the couple of times its happened. I'd rather get asked out by a pretty guy than an ugly girl, personally.

Now wait a minute, Blast. Either you're an awful good looking guy, you're wearing the wrong kind of clothes, or you're hanging out at the wrong places.

I've never been hit on by a gay guy. For some reason, I'm actually jealous. I try to take care of my body and stay well groomed.
:D

pirate4state
02-16-2007, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by Bullaholic
If you had a webcam hooked to your PC---how many times do you think you would have been rommed today, Rita? :D

About a million times over each day :D

Blastoderm55
02-16-2007, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by BTEXDAD
Now wait a minute, Blast. Either you're an awful good looking guy, you're wearing the wrong kind of clothes, or you're hanging out at the wrong places.

I've never been hit on by a gay guy. For some reason, I'm actually jealous. I try to take care of my body and stay well groomed.
:D

I used to have very long and pretty hair.

If anything, I was mistaken for a girl and was hit on by a straight guy. :p

Gobbla2001
02-16-2007, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by Blastoderm55
I used to have very long and pretty hair.

If anything, I was mistaken for a girl and was hit on by a straight guy. :p

:eek: :thinking:

Blastoderm55
02-16-2007, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by Gobbla2001
:eek: :thinking:

No worries, I wasn't in Cuero when I was hit on. :p ;)

eagles_victory
02-16-2007, 04:18 PM
Im not a fan of gay people but thats their life choice not mine. I love women as all you do which i believe is right and is right.

However being gay is their life choice while i dont think its right who am i to judge them? Who are all of you to judge them? Theres only one man who can judge and believe me he doesnt post on 3adownlow. So please stop preaching hate and leave the judging up to God.

Hating a group of people is not right under any circumstances. It is just like hating because of race. Hate comes from a lack of education when you get on here and preach hate about gay people you show your lack of education so continue to do that its not making anybody look bad but yourself.

Are you people also advocates of when gay people are beat because there gay? This is ridiculous to hate people because of a personal choice

In the end its not my choice and not any of your choices but you cant hate it just because you dont understand it. Its just the way some people are i cant understand how anyone could be gay either. But maybe they feel the same way about how we could be straight.

burnet44
02-16-2007, 04:26 PM
While Stern said a discussion about openly gay players could be part of future rookie orientation programs, he doesn't see a need to address the league.

"This is an issue overall that has fascinated America. It's not an NBA issue," Stern said, pointing to the ongoing debate over gay marriage at the state and federal levels.

"This is a country that needs to talk about this issue," he said. "And, not surprisingly, they use sports as a catalyst to begin the dialogue."

if it is not an NBA issue
why is Stern commenting and leaving him out?

Hansum Stranger
02-16-2007, 04:27 PM
Why is it if someone "hates" something then they are labeled uneducated?

pirate4state
02-16-2007, 04:33 PM
Because it is hard to believe that educated people would be capable of such emotions? :D

I don't think of it is so much as being "uneducated" just maybe a little close minded, but hey if you're happy - who cares what other people label you?

Hansum Stranger
02-16-2007, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by pirate4state
Because it is hard to believe that educated people would be capable of such emotions? :D

I don't think of it is so much as being "uneducated" just maybe a little close minded, but hey if you're happy - who cares what other people label you?

I don't think emotions come from education. Emotions come from your beliefs.

pirate4state
02-16-2007, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by Hansum Stranger
I don't think emotions come from education. Emotions come from your beliefs. Where do your beliefs come from?

Gobbla2001
02-16-2007, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by pirate4state
Where do your beliefs come from?

spam

Hansum Stranger
02-16-2007, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by pirate4state
Where do your beliefs come from?

They come from my beliefs and the way my parents raised me. My beliefs have nothing at all to do with my education.

carter08
02-16-2007, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by Hansum Stranger
They come from my beliefs and the way my parents raised me. My beliefs have nothing at all to do with my education.

Exactly


Moving on

pirate4state
02-16-2007, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by Hansum Stranger
They come from my beliefs and the way my parents raised me. My beliefs have nothing at all to do with my education.

So, if your parents taught you to hate anyone who didn't look like you or act like you that would make it right?

Blastoderm55
02-16-2007, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by pirate4state
Where do your beliefs come from?

From Him

http://www.inkycircus.com/jargon/images/fsm_1.jpg

pirate4state
02-16-2007, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by carter08
Exactly



Moving on

:mad: :mad: You need to check yourself!

Hansum Stranger
02-16-2007, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by pirate4state
So, if your parents taught you to hate anyone who didn't look like you or act like you that would make it right?

My parents didn't teach me to hate. They also didn't give me my beliefs. They taught me right from wrong.

Hansum Stranger
02-16-2007, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by pirate4state
:mad: :mad: You need to check yourself!

He's just a sheltered kid Rita. His comments don't mean anything.

AP Panther Fan
02-16-2007, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by Hansum Stranger
They come from my beliefs and the way my parents raised me. My beliefs have nothing at all to do with my education.

reading all of this, brought a quote to mind....

“Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.”

pirate4state
02-16-2007, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by Hansum Stranger
My parents didn't teach me to hate. They also didn't give me my beliefs. They taught me right from wrong.

That's great, but what about the parents who do teach hate. That's what I'm getting at.

Hansum Stranger
02-16-2007, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by pirate4state
That's great, but what about the parents who do teach hate. That's what I'm getting at.

That's a problem that can never be fixed. All someone can do is live their life by their own beliefs

Ranger Mom
02-16-2007, 04:55 PM
I don't agree with the gay lifestyle, I don't think it's natural and I think God make the male and female bodies in the way that He did, to FIT TOGETHER like they do!!

That being said, I don't HATE anyone who is gay, I don't even dislike them, I can't feel anything but sorry for them actually.

pirate4state
02-16-2007, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by Hansum Stranger
That's a problem that can never be fixed. All someone can do is live their life by their own beliefs

well i believe we should all go have a drink. drinking solves all your problems. :D seriously, this is too heavy for a FRIDAY afternoon. I may need more than ONE!! :kiss:

Blastoderm55
02-16-2007, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by pirate4state
well i believe we should all go have a drink. drinking solves all your problems. :D seriously, this is too heavy for a FRIDAY afternoon. I may need more than ONE!! :kiss:

Have one for me! I haven't had anything since the Super Bowl. :(

Bullaholic
02-16-2007, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by Ranger Mom
to FIT TOGETHER like they do!!

I don't understand, RM----please explain. :D

pirate4state
02-16-2007, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by Bullaholic
I don't understand RM----please explain. :D :eek: LOL! :blush: :D

Ranger Mom
02-16-2007, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by Bullaholic
I don't understand, RM----please explain. :D

Shame on you!!http://forum.xbconnect.com/images/smilies/shame.gif

vet93
02-16-2007, 05:04 PM
For those stating that you should leave religion out of it...how can you do that when in many cases your worldview is shaped by your religion. The Biblical Worldview states that homosexuality is wrong and an abomination in God's eyes. It is very plainly stated. However, we are also supposed to love the sinner but hate the sin. To hate someone is wrong (Hardaways statements were wrong). To hate a sin is not wrong whether it is adultery or homosexuality or stealing. Secular humanist believe that there is no absolute truth. Therefore, all things are permissable as long as you can justify them to yourself. Secular humanist will protest if someone says that a sin is wrong. Our media and culture are dominated by secular humanist...therefore we live in a society of oppressive "political correctness". What we are seeing in the homosexuality debate is a clash of these two worldviews. In my opinion the proper response from the Christian community should be love for all people and a genuine care for their well being spiritually and otherwise....while at the same time not backing down on the scriptural truthes that God has established in his Word. Unfortunately, the PC Police will not allow you to have this opinion or worldview.

Blastoderm55
02-16-2007, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by vet93
In my opinion the proper response from the Christian community should be love for all people and a genuine care for their well being spiritually and otherwise....while at the same time not backing down on the scriptural truthes that God has established in his Word. Unfortunately, the PC Police will not allow you to have this opinion or worldview.

That worldview goes out the window the second you open your big mouth and start talking about how much you hate a certain type of people.

mwynn05
02-16-2007, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by vet93
For those stating that you should leave religion out of it...how can you do that when in many cases your worldview is shaped by your religion. The Biblical Worldview states that homosexuality is wrong and an abomination in God's eyes. It is very plainly stated. However, we are also supposed to love the sinner but hate the sin. To hate someone is wrong (Hardaways statements were wrong). To hate a sin is not wrong whether it is adultery or homosexuality or stealing. Secular humanist believe that there is no absolute truth. Therefore, all things are permissable as long as you can justify them to yourself. Secular humanist will protest if someone says that a sin is wrong. Our media and culture are dominated by secular humanist...therefore we live in a society of oppressive "political correctness". What we are seeing in the homosexuality debate is a clash of these two worldviews. In my opinion the proper response from the Christian community should be love for all people and a genuine care for their well being spiritually and otherwise....while at the same time not backing down on the scriptural truthes that God has established in his Word. Unfortunately, the PC Police will not allow you to have this opinion or worldview. great post! a lot of people on here (not you vet) using the Bible to defend your beliefs of hating someone for an action is just absolute blasphemy....the Bible does not teach hate...i agree with most of your points maybe not all but it is still a good post

Ranger Mom
02-16-2007, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by mwynn05
great post! using the Bible to defend your beliefs of hating someone for an action is just absolute blasphemy....the Bible does not teach hate

Where did he say that??

Here is what he said:


To hate someone is wrong (Hardaways statements were wrong). To hate a sin is not wrong whether it is adultery or homosexuality or stealing.

DU_stud04
02-16-2007, 05:11 PM
i like gay people.....makes the odds with me and the ladies increase ever so slightly. :D

Blastoderm55
02-16-2007, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by DU_stud04
i like gay people.....makes the odds with me and the ladies increase ever so slightly. :D

:clap: :clap:

A true optimist's view on homosexuality.

mwynn05
02-16-2007, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by Ranger Mom
Where did he say that??

Here is what he said: he's saying it is okay to hate the fact that some people are gay but it is not okay to hate people because they are gay (as i interpret what hes saying)which i agree with but there have been people on here basically(generalizing for simplicity) saying the Bible says it is okay to hate gay people

pirate4state
02-16-2007, 05:16 PM
There are only 12 rules on this board. One of them happens to mention that religious topics are forbidden while these type of threads never start out to be religious in nature someone ALWAYS brings it into the thread. Then what happens? it invokes problems and sometimes cause hard feelings.

Is it really that hard to understand or follow???? :thinking: :thinking:

Ranger Mom
02-16-2007, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by mwynn05
he's saying it is okay to hate the fact that some people are gay but it is not okay to hate people because they are gay (as i interpret what hes saying)which i agree with but there have been people on here basically(generalizing for simplicity) saying the Bible says it is okay to hate gay people

Yes...there have been SOME people...but it wasn't Vet93 was all I was saying!

mwynn05
02-16-2007, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by Ranger Mom
Yes...there have been SOME people...but it wasn't Vet93 was all I was saying! and im not saying he is either

Ranger Mom
02-16-2007, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by mwynn05
and im not saying he is either

Okay....I guess your post saying "He is saying" threw me off then after you quoted him!

:confused:

mwynn05
02-16-2007, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by Ranger Mom
Okay....I guess your post saying "He is saying" threw me off then after you quoted him!

:confused: maybe im not putting in the right words what i am trying to say

Ranger Mom
02-16-2007, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by mwynn05
maybe im not putting in the right words what i am trying to say

Maybe not....or maybe I just like arguing with you!!:p

pirate4state
02-16-2007, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by mwynn05
maybe im not putting in the right words what i am trying to say

I'm glad I'm not the only one with this problem ;)

DU_stud04
02-16-2007, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by Blastoderm55
:clap: :clap:

A true optimist's view on homosexuality. :D

Blastoderm55
02-16-2007, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by DU_stud04
:D

I'll bet you hate lesbians, though. :p

pirate44
02-16-2007, 05:34 PM
http://www.chieftain.com/archive/2002/mar/12/sptSPURS-NUGGETS.jpg

DU_stud04
02-16-2007, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by Blastoderm55
I'll bet you hate lesbians, though. :p takin away from my quota..... :mad:

female bi's are great though :D

can you seriously beat a 2 for 1 deal(besides a 3 for 1) :D

SWMustang
02-16-2007, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by mwynn05
great post! a lot of people on here (not you vet) using the Bible to defend your beliefs of hating someone for an action is just absolute blasphemy....the Bible does not teach hate...i agree with most of your points maybe not all but it is still a good post

Calm down there Sparky! You totally missed my point and I wish I had never used the bible reference earlier it wasn't even directed at you. I even clarified the point that I thought it was wrong for him to say he hated gay people. You said you thought Hardaway got off easy. He's been cut off by the NBA, what more should happen to him? It's his constitutional right to say how he feels. Society has acted in kind so what more should happen? Imprisonment?

big daddy russ
02-16-2007, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by mwynn05
great post! using the Bible to defend your beliefs of hating someone for an action is just absolute blasphemy....the Bible does not teach hate
But the Bible does teach that homosexuality is a sin, much the same as rape or murder.

I don't agree with what Hardaway said about hating them, but I'm not going to bludgeon him with political correctness. It's one thing to tell someone you hate homosexuals, but it's a completely different thing to tell someone WHAT they can or can't think.

God only knows how many times I've been told what's acceptable to think about homosexuality, that it's 'their choice' and it's 'only natural.' We're supposed to 'tolerate' it, but I don't understand why we're supposed to tolerate that while bestiality and sex with a minor makes you a sexual deviant. Realistically, what exactly is sexual perversion these days? Where do we draw the line?

I know every 'older' guy on this board has seen a 15- or 16-year old girl and thought she was gorgeous. Why is it that even the thought of that is 'over-the-line' but homosexuality isn't? Hell, guys in well-developed, major Latin American cities who are in their late-20's go after 15-year olds all the time and it's perfectly acceptable. Happens in Acapulco, Mexico City, Bogota, Rio de Janiero, etc, etc all the time. And they're such horrible, horrible sexual deviants, that many of them even wind up getting married.

As a former athlete, I'd never want to share a locker room with a homosexual. And it's not because I hate homosexuals. Even though I like to rant on the DL, I'm a pretty tolerant, laid-back person in real life. The reason is because I know what I'd be like in a girls' locker room. I'd be walking around in my mushroom cap, poking some eyes out.

You can't tell me that if you stuck me in a locker room with 11 other naked women, I wouldn't find at least one that was attractive. Even if it was a WNBA locker room.

Knowing what I know about myself and 99% of all other guys out there, you also can't tell me that if you stick a gay guy in a room full of naked guys, he won't be attracted to one of them.

So let me run my logic by everyone one more time: We wear clothes in public because it's embarrassing and uncouth to walk around naked with women around, but we're supposed to think it's alright for a homosexual to see us naked? That's what you call a conflict of interests. LeBron James saw that, and when a reporter asked him about his feelings he replied sternly, saying that he wants to know straight up if someone in his locker room was gay, but at the same time sounding appalled by the thought. John Amaechi made it out to be a problem of James,' but I completely understood why LeBron said what he said.

And after all this, after all these feelings, I still have gay friends. As long as they're told it's OK by everyone else and they believe in their hearts that it's OK, then I'm powerless to do anything but be there and talk to them in a rational manner if they become conflicted about their lifestyle. I hate to hear the sadder stories, the ones like RM's cousin and that kid up in Montana, but that doesn't mean that I have to accept the lifestyle. And neither does Hardaway, a guy known in media circles for a long time as one of the classiest pro athletes around.

Maybe he could've been a little more tactful, but like they said last night on ESPN Radio (and this was all of them-- Ric Bucher, Doug Gottlieb, etc), we tend to castrate a guy for giving us the honest truth instead of the truth that we want to hear. We want sunshine blown up our butts. We want the half-truths and the PC answers.

But from time to time, we do want to hear someone say something like this because the full truth gives us a target to zero in on, and Hardaway is just the latest clay pigeon to be thrown.





PS: As far as homosexuality being 'natural,' that's quite possibly the lamest excuse I've ever heard. When threatened, a mother rabbit will eat her young to conserve energy. After mating, a female black widow will kill her partner. And every once in a while, you run across a guy who just has the natural instinct to kidnap little girls. Some go willingly and wind up living a complete and healthy life.

What would you say if a mother left her baby in a dumpster because she didn't feel she could take care of her child, a woman waited until her lover got pregnant before she killed him, or this kidnapper showed up in court and said it's only 'natural?' He's right, isn't he?

mwynn05
02-16-2007, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by SWMustang
Calm down there Sparky! You totally missed my point and I wish I had never used the bible reference earlier it wasn't even directed at you. I even clarified the point that I thought it was wrong for him to say he hated gay people. You said you thought Hardaway got off easy. He's been cut off by the NBA, what more should happen to him? It's his constitutional right to say how he feels. Society has acted in kind so what more should happen? Imprisonment? you and your name calling.....and when i say he got off easy im saying he got off easy comparedto if a white man had said he hated black people vice versa because its the same thing

DU_stud04
02-16-2007, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by mwynn05
you and your name calling.....and when i say he got off easy im saying he got off easy comparedto if a white man had said he hated black people vice versa because its the same thing that my friend is racism. :)

mwynn05
02-16-2007, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by DU_stud04
that my friend is racism. :) lol but saying you hate someone is gay is the same as saying you hate a certain race

DU_stud04
02-16-2007, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by mwynn05
lol but saying you hate someone is gay is the same as saying you hate a certain race no, not against a race. to broad. thats like sayin you hate all male. you hate people who color their hair blonde :D just admit it. hahahaha

burnet44
02-16-2007, 06:39 PM
you are born a certain race
being gay is a choice

DU_stud04
02-16-2007, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by burnet44
you are born a certain race
being gay is a choice just like choosing to color your hair blonde :)

burnet44
02-16-2007, 07:08 PM
exactly
and taking it well you know where

thats an outtie not an inny

DU_stud04
02-16-2007, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by burnet44
exactly
and taking it well you know where

thats an outtie not an inny i hate outties!!!!:mad: :mad: :mad:

pancho villa
02-16-2007, 07:31 PM
I'm a Lesbian!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pirateman98
02-16-2007, 08:50 PM
I feel like saying something on behalf of gay men and women out there. I am a gay man and no I don't need anyone feeling SORRY for me. I made this choice, and I will have to answer to GOD for my actions and no one ELSE!! I feel also, that Tim Hardaway is entitled to his beliefs and no one should make him feel bad or even tell him he is wrong for what he believe's in. I have had many people tell me to my face that I am wrong and that I am going to hell and I really don't care. I am happy with who I am and not one person in the face of this earth can make me feel any different. If you hate me, fine, I am going to live me life and your going to live ours. I also feel that many people think that because I am gay, that means that I am going to hit on any man that walks my way, which is not true. I only date men who are like me, Gay, and I don't believe in crossing any boundries that should not be crossed. Many gay men out there do that, and that is only one, but ever big reason why so many straight men have a problem with gay men. I am saying this only because I feel that I am a good person, and if loving someone of the same sex is a sin, then when I die I will be prepared for my judgement.

SWMustang
02-16-2007, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by mwynn05
you and your name calling.....and when i say he got off easy im saying he got off easy comparedto if a white man had said he hated black people vice versa because its the same thing

That's disrespectful to every Black person in America. Blacks couldn't pretend they were white to escape persecution and slavery. It's NOT the same thing but we can agree to disagree.

charlesrixey
02-16-2007, 10:23 PM
here's a quick question

how many men would feel comfortable with a gay man in their locker room? I have nothing against gay people personally (i even have a few gay friends) but i would not want that in a room where i undressed

I think hardaway was just being honest, and i don't believe or care about his apology, which he shouldn't have done; as someone said earlier in this thread, you shouldn't apologize for your beliefs.

politically correctness seems to only work for the minority. Can't others speak out if THEY are offended by the minority?

would any of ya'll feel comfortable in a shower/locker room with an openly gay man?

charlesrixey
02-16-2007, 10:26 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by big daddy russ
[B]
As a former athlete, I'd never want to share a locker room with a homosexual. And it's not because I hate homosexuals. Even though I like to rant on the DL, I'm a pretty tolerant, laid-back person in real life. The reason is because I know what I'd be like in a girls' locker room. I'd be walking around in my mushroom cap, poking some eyes out.

You can't tell me that if you stuck me in a locker room with 11 other naked women, I wouldn't find at least one that was attractive. Even if it was a WNBA locker room.

Knowing what I know about myself and 99% of all other guys out there, you also can't tell me that if you stick a gay guy in a room full of naked guys, he won't be attracted to one of them.

So let me run my logic by everyone one more time: We wear clothes in public because it's embarrassing and uncouth to walk around naked with women around, but we're supposed to think it's alright for a homosexual to see us naked? That's what you call a conflict of interests. LeBron James saw that, and when a reporter asked him about his feelings he replied sternly, saying that he wants to know straight up if someone in his locker room was gay, but at the same time sounding appalled by the thought. John Amaechi made it out to be a problem of James,' but I completely understood why LeBron said what he said.

And after all this, after all these feelings, I still have gay friends. As long as they're told it's OK by everyone else and they believe in their hearts that it's OK, then I'm powerless to do anything but be there and talk to them in a rational manner if they become conflicted about their lifestyle. I hate to hear the sadder stories, the ones like RM's cousin and that kid up in Montana, but that doesn't mean that I have to accept the lifestyle. And neither does Hardaway, a guy known in media circles for a long time as one of the classiest pro athletes around.

Maybe he could've been a little more tactful, but like they said last night on ESPN Radio (and this was all of them-- Ric Bucher, Doug Gottlieb, etc), we tend to castrate a guy for giving us the honest truth instead of the truth that we want to hear. We want sunshine blown up our butts. We want the half-truths and the PC answers.

But from time to time, we do want to hear someone say something like this because the full truth gives us a target to zero in on, and Hardaway is just the latest clay pigeon to be thrown.


AMEN, Big Daddy! you said it way better than i did!

pirate4state
02-16-2007, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by charlesrixey

Originally posted by big daddy russ

As a former athlete, I'd never want to share a locker room with a homosexual. And it's not because I hate homosexuals. Even though I like to rant on the DL, I'm a pretty tolerant, laid-back person in real life. The reason is because I know what I'd be like in a girls' locker room. I'd be walking around in my mushroom cap, poking some eyes out.

You can't tell me that if you stuck me in a locker room with 11 other naked women, I wouldn't find at least one that was attractive. Even if it was a WNBA locker room.

Knowing what I know about myself and 99% of all other guys out there, you also can't tell me that if you stick a gay guy in a room full of naked guys, he won't be attracted to one of them.

So let me run my logic by everyone one more time: We wear clothes in public because it's embarrassing and uncouth to walk around naked with women around, but we're supposed to think it's alright for a homosexual to see us naked? That's what you call a conflict of interests. LeBron James saw that, and when a reporter asked him about his feelings he replied sternly, saying that he wants to know straight up if someone in his locker room was gay, but at the same time sounding appalled by the thought. John Amaechi made it out to be a problem of James,' but I completely understood why LeBron said what he said.

And after all this, after all these feelings, I still have gay friends. As long as they're told it's OK by everyone else and they believe in their hearts that it's OK, then I'm powerless to do anything but be there and talk to them in a rational manner if they become conflicted about their lifestyle. I hate to hear the sadder stories, the ones like RM's cousin and that kid up in Montana, but that doesn't mean that I have to accept the lifestyle. And neither does Hardaway, a guy known in media circles for a long time as one of the classiest pro athletes around.

Maybe he could've been a little more tactful, but like they said last night on ESPN Radio (and this was all of them-- Ric Bucher, Doug Gottlieb, etc), we tend to castrate a guy for giving us the honest truth instead of the truth that we want to hear. We want sunshine blown up our butts. We want the half-truths and the PC answers.

But from time to time, we do want to hear someone say something like this because the full truth gives us a target to zero in on, and Hardaway is just the latest clay pigeon to be thrown.


AMEN, Big Daddy! you said it way better than i did!

Russ always makes things better. :)

charlesrixey
02-16-2007, 10:32 PM
on a side note pirate, i have been gone for a little while but i love your avatar!

Matthew328
02-16-2007, 10:37 PM
What a lovely topic...

Here's my two cents for what its worth, I don't agree with being gay or the gay lifestyle due to my religious and moral convictions. It doesn't mean I hate gay people though, they are people who deserve to live their life the way they see fit if you ask me. But that's just me....

Hardaway is a grown man and has every right to say what he thinks and feels, but just like anyone else there are consequences for what you say. At my job, I can say whatever I want..but if I say the wrong thing to my boss guess what I gotta face the consequences...

Hardaway will face the consequences of his actions..in fact he already is and he will continue to face them as he comments will follow him forever...he can apologize but the damage has been done.If he has any endorsements they'll be pulled and the NBA will not touch him with a 10 foot pole now...

luvhoops34
02-16-2007, 11:02 PM
I believe in live and let live. As long as they are not hitting on me, then I don't care. I'm not particularily comfortable when two gay ppl are making out, but I don't hate gays. In fact, I have several gay friends, male and female.

I have heard several gay people say that they don't like straight people and don't want to associate with them......It works two ways. There are more gays out there than you think. We all need to be more accepting of each other.

Ranger Mom
02-16-2007, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by pirateman98
I feel like saying something on behalf of gay men and women out there. I am a gay man and no I don't need anyone feeling SORRY for me. I made this choice, and I will have to answer to GOD for my actions and no one ELSE!! I feel also, that Tim Hardaway is entitled to his beliefs and no one should make him feel bad or even tell him he is wrong for what he believe's in. I have had many people tell me to my face that I am wrong and that I am going to hell and I really don't care. I am happy with who I am and not one person in the face of this earth can make me feel any different. If you hate me, fine, I am going to live me life and your going to live ours. I also feel that many people think that because I am gay, that means that I am going to hit on any man that walks my way, which is not true. I only date men who are like me, Gay, and I don't believe in crossing any boundries that should not be crossed. Many gay men out there do that, and that is only one, but ever big reason why so many straight men have a problem with gay men. I am saying this only because I feel that I am a good person, and if loving someone of the same sex is a sin, then when I die I will be prepared for my judgement.

I have to applaud you for admitting this and telling us your take on it. I won't pretend to understand, because I can't, no matter how hard I try. I don't know if you read my earlier post about having a cousin who was gay(he took his life 10 years ago). I didn't love him any less than I did before I found out. I just didn't understand....but, he didn't understand how I could feel how I did either. So....we just agreed that we would probably never understand each other, and just went on being cousins again. :)

Blastoderm55
02-17-2007, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by charlesrixey
here's a quick question

how many men would feel comfortable with a gay man in their locker room? I have nothing against gay people personally (i even have a few gay friends) but i would not want that in a room where i undressed


There are two types of men who wouldn't be comfortable with gays in the locker room. The first type, are men that are unsure of their own sexuality. We live in a very sexually repressed society. Some people can't come to grips with the thoughts that go through their head that so many others have dismissed as unpure. This is why grown men end up having affairs with other men. See Ted Haggart, See Brokeback Mountain, See Catholic priests. The proof is out there.

The second type of men that wouldn't be comfortable are men who are simply full of themselves. This sort of narcicism is pretty common in our gender. We love to believe that we are amazing creatures that are desired by all. Sadly, most of us are ugly chuds, and have just as bad a chance with the same sex as we do with the opposite.

Phantom Stang
02-17-2007, 11:28 AM
Hardaway should have never been put on the spot in a presumed SPORTS interview, with such an uncalled for question.
IMO, he's the one who's owed an apology.

pirate4state
02-17-2007, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by Blastoderm55
There are two types of men who wouldn't be comfortable with gays in the locker room. The first type, are men that are unsure of their own sexuality. We live in a very sexually repressed society. Some people can't come to grips with the thoughts that go through their head that so many others have dismissed as unpure. This is why grown men end up having affairs with other men. See Ted Haggart, See Brokeback Mountain, See Catholic priests. The proof is out there.

The second type of men that wouldn't be comfortable are men who are simply full of themselves. This sort of narcicism is pretty common in our gender. We love to believe that we are amazing creatures that are desired by all. Sadly, most of us are ugly chuds, and have just as bad a chance with the same sex as we do with the opposite.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: ITA!!! 2nd paragraph - too funny!! :thumbsup: :D

big daddy russ
02-17-2007, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by Blastoderm55
There are two types of men who wouldn't be comfortable with gays in the locker room. The first type, are men that are unsure of their own sexuality. We live in a very sexually repressed society. Some people can't come to grips with the thoughts that go through their head that so many others have dismissed as unpure. This is why grown men end up having affairs with other men. See Ted Haggart, See Brokeback Mountain, See Catholic priests. The proof is out there.

The second type of men that wouldn't be comfortable are men who are simply full of themselves. This sort of narcicism is pretty common in our gender. We love to believe that we are amazing creatures that are desired by all. Sadly, most of us are ugly chuds, and have just as bad a chance with the same sex as we do with the opposite.
As a man, I'm not attracted to every woman on the face of the planet, but I don't see the ugly ones walking around naked in our locker rooms.

See, there's also a third category here... and this third category represents the vast majority. And by vast majority I'm talking waaay more than 3/4 of men out there, whether they're too timid to admit it or don't exactly know how to word the way they feel. These are guys who feel that it's not right to walk around naked in public. Unfortunately, I've already rambled on about this exact topic, so I'll just cut and paste for you to read.

Not everyone who is opposed to this can be labeled homophobic. There's varying degrees of us, and you can't just take two extremes and lump everyone in there together. It'd be like saying everyone either loves fat girls or waifs. There are some of us that appreciate all the women out there, and tend to migrate more towards the girls who have curves but still look good. The J-Lo's and Jessica Simpsons.


Originally posted by big daddy russ
As a former athlete, I'd never want to share a locker room with a homosexual. And it's not because I hate homosexuals. Even though I like to rant on the DL, I'm a pretty tolerant, laid-back person in real life. The reason is because I know what I'd be like in a girls' locker room. I'd be walking around in my mushroom cap, poking some eyes out.

You can't tell me that if you stuck me in a locker room with 11 other naked women, I wouldn't find at least one that was attractive. Even if it was a WNBA locker room.

Knowing what I know about myself and 99% of all other guys out there, you also can't tell me that if you stick a gay guy in a room full of naked guys, he won't be attracted to one of them.

So let me run my logic by everyone one more time: We wear clothes in public because it's embarrassing and uncouth to walk around naked with women around, but we're supposed to think it's alright for a homosexual to see us naked? That's what you call a conflict of interests. LeBron James saw that, and when a reporter asked him about his feelings he replied sternly, saying that he wants to know straight up if someone in his locker room was gay, but at the same time sounding appalled by the thought. John Amaechi made it out to be a problem of James,' but I completely understood why LeBron said what he said.

And after all this, after all these feelings, I still have gay friends. As long as they're told it's OK by everyone else and they believe in their hearts that it's OK, then I'm powerless to do anything but be there and talk to them in a rational manner if they become conflicted about their lifestyle. I hate to hear the sadder stories, the ones like RM's cousin and that kid up in Montana, but that doesn't mean that I have to accept the lifestyle. And neither does Hardaway, a guy known in media circles for a long time as one of the classiest pro athletes around.

Maybe he could've been a little more tactful, but like they said last night on ESPN Radio (and this was all of them-- Ric Bucher, Doug Gottlieb, etc), we tend to castrate a guy for giving us the honest truth instead of the truth that we want to hear. We want sunshine blown up our butts. We want the half-truths and the PC answers.

But from time to time, we do want to hear someone say something like this because the full truth gives us a target to zero in on, and Hardaway is just the latest clay pigeon to be thrown.

Oh, and I fall into your second category for future reference.

Blastoderm55
02-17-2007, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by big daddy russ
As a man, I'm not attracted to every woman on the face of the planet, but I don't see the ugly ones walking around naked in our locker rooms.

Not sure what that means. Guess out of side, out of mind? Gays can make the same distinction.


Originally posted by big daddy russ
See, there's also a third category here... and this third category represents the vast majority. And by vast majority I'm talking waaay more than 3/4 of men out there, whether they're too timid to admit it or don't exactly know how to word the way they feel. These are guys who feel that it's not right to walk around naked in public. Unfortunately, I've already rambled on about this exact topic, so I'll just cut and paste for you to read.

That's fine. No one is forced to walk around naked in public outside of fraternity pledgees, so if a man feels awkward in a locker room, he can keep his junk tucked away in a brief or other form of covering undergarment. Hey, personally, I couldn't walk around naked in a locker room. But it has nothing to do with gays. I just don't particularly enjoy the sight of my fully nude body. If anything, I'd prefer to not offend people.


Originally posted by big daddy russ
Not everyone who is opposed to this can be labeled homophobic. There's varying degrees of us, and you can't just take two extremes and lump everyone in there together. It'd be like saying everyone either loves waifs or fat girls. There are some of us that appreciate all the women out there, and tend to migrate more towards the girls who have curves but still look good. The J-Lo's and Jessica Simpsons.

I can understand that. My point is that people's views on gays has less to do with the gays than it does with their own inner personas.


Originally posted by big daddy russ
Oh, and I fall into your second category for future reference.

I think we all have at one point or another. :p

SWMustang
02-17-2007, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by Blastoderm55
There are two types of men who wouldn't be comfortable with gays in the locker room. The first type, are men that are unsure of their own sexuality.

That's a myth. It's like a trap set by people advocating a gay agenda. If you oppose homosexuality it's because you secretly want to be a homosexual. The only alternative is to support gays to show you are totally ok with your own sexuality.

SpreadtheRed
02-17-2007, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by SWMustang
That's a myth. It's like a trap set by people advocating a gay agenda. If you oppose homosexuality it's because you secretly want to be a homosexual. The only alternative is to support gays to show you are totally ok with your own sexuality.

you're about as cool as AIDS...no one likes gays cuz they stink and i hate em.

Hansum Stranger
02-17-2007, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by Blastoderm55
There are two types of men who wouldn't be comfortable with gays in the locker room. The first type, are men that are unsure of their own sexuality.

The second type of men that wouldn't be comfortable are men who are simply full of themselves.


Totally wrong. Some people don't want gay people around just for the simple fact that the choice of being gay is wrong.

theyoefnshow
02-17-2007, 05:24 PM
whatever. The guy had the balls to say what the vast majority feel but don't have the nerve to say AND he said it on a grand scale. I think the fact that he apologized is pretty weak though. As for the locker room situation, being a former player, I can't see me or ANY of my former teammates being cool with the situation either. 2nd, at my work place we have a MAN who dresses like a WOMAN and for the longest time, he/she (Shim as we like to call it) would go to the women's bathroom. Eventually, a female employee complained and Shim was banned from the women's bathroom. HOwever......seeing a 6'6 black man dressed as a woman doesn't exactly make Shim welcome in the men's room either.

big daddy russ
02-17-2007, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by Blastoderm55
Not sure what that means. Guess out of side, out of mind? Gays can make the same distinction.
I said that because you make it sound like the reason we wouldn't be comfy with gays in the locker room was those two reasons. In my post from a page or two back, I pointed out that most people feel awkward walking around naked in public, mainly because it's inappropriate to the opposite sex. Now that homosexuality is as open as it is, how do you deal with that knowing that you don't walk around naked in front of the opposite sex?


Originally posted by Blastoderm55
That's fine. No one is forced to walk around naked in public outside of fraternity pledgees, so if a man feels awkward in a locker room, he can keep his junk tucked away in a brief or other form of covering undergarment. Hey, personally, I couldn't walk around naked in a locker room. But it has nothing to do with gays. I just don't particularly enjoy the sight of my fully nude body. If anything, I'd prefer to not offend people.

I can understand that. My point is that people's views on gays has less to do with the gays than it does with their own inner personas.
I don't know about you, but we were always naked around each other in the locker room. We had community showers and community lockers. This all goes back to the naked thing and a locker room being the same thing as a huge nudi mag for some gays (maybe not all of them, but there are more than a few you could use in this reference).

And your point about people's views about gays isn't necessarily true. I think a lot of it has more with religious and moral upbringing than their own inner personas.