ESPN=Liberal Media

[burnet44]

ESPN publishes a book in which a gay former player comes out of the closet.
ESPN personalities all jump on this self-created "story" to publicly express that they are indeed tolerant.
ESPN personalities ask every living athlete about their thoughts on gay players hoping that...
An ESPN personality finally catches a former athlete, who's not up on the latest tolerance talking points.
ESPN runs non-stop coverage of said comments.
ESPN personalities get to go on camera once again and say how much they're against hate.

Its the media making a story about the story they made in the first place

I have lost a lot of respect for ESPN

they grill Hardaway while publishing the book
thats 2 faced

would ESPN hire a gay anchor? NO

David Stern is stupider

quote "this is an American issue, NOT an NBA issue. The NBA does not agree with Mr. Hardaway's statements"


IF its not an NBA issue
why tell him to go home?

ITS all about money
the money this gay guy is trying to make from his book


all this is the stupidist stuff Ive heard

we have become so tolerant of anything
we stand for nothing

Im sure I will get blasted like Penny here

WHY do we continue to support terrible things in this country in the name of tolerence?


If you are against it it makes YOU the bad one

I do not understand it.

some day we will be tolerant of killing each other. That would be a choice too huh?

fire away

dont rom me just ban me all together
Im sure I wont be tolerated

[themsu97]

okay... I am lost here, I thought that the comments were made by former Golden State star and part of the famed RUN- TMC, Tim Hardaway.... what does Anfernee "Penny" Hardaway have to do with this...
but agreed, ESPN has gone over the edge...
this being the same company that fired Harold Reynolds for alleged sexual allegations, which Harold claims he hugged a girl and only suspended Sean Salisbury for emailing pics of little Sean to almost everyone

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by burnet44
David Stern is stupider
I think that you, as you so eloquently put it, are "stupider" for saying that they're liberal media just because they report and do ignorant stuff. That's just my opinion, and until you can prove otherwise with a more concise and compelling argument that is to the point, my opinion is going to stay that way. I guess in a roundabout way, what I'm trying to say is keep the politics out of it when you're making an argument about something completely unrelated.

[TarponFanInNorthTexas]

Can't you keep these comments to yourself?

Trust me, I can go on a rant right now, but I choose not to as not to BASH anyone.

[Bubba-Joe]

Hate the sin
Love the sinner

How exactly does that work?

We hate sin by refusing to take part in it and by condemning it when we see it. Sin is to be hated, not excused or taken lightly.

We love the sinner by being faithful in witnessing to them of the forgiveness that is available to them.


A true act of love is treating someone with respect and kindness even though they know you do not approve of their lifestyle.

[Adidas4I0s]

ESPN and the NBA are playing the "policitcally correct" cards...that doesn't make them liberal media or conservative media. If a pastor at a prominent southern baptist church in the south made these comments...would you label him liberal??? I think not.

[wedo]

Originally posted by burnet44
ESPN publishes a book in which a gay former player comes out of the closet.
ESPN personalities all jump on this self-created "story" to publicly express that they are indeed tolerant.
ESPN personalities ask every living athlete about their thoughts on gay players hoping that...
An ESPN personality finally catches a former athlete, who's not up on the latest tolerance talking points.
ESPN runs non-stop coverage of said comments.
ESPN personalities get to go on camera once again and say how much they're against hate.



And? Whats the big deal? Why don't you take a Psychology class or " Human Sexuality" is even better and it might help not be so ignorant!!!!

Oh and it was Tim Hardaway not Penny! Penny played for the Magic not the Heat!!

[mwynn05]

I think Tim Hardaway is getting off REALLY easy what he said is equal to if he was a white guy and said "i hate black people" and i bet if he said "i hate black people" and he was a white tracy mcgrady wouldnt have said what he said about the situation

[pirate4state]

:rolleyes: :rolleyes::helpme: :speech:

[Macarthur]

They were stupid, hateful and ignorant comments by Hardaway. He should be grilled for his comments.

I do agree that ESPN is riding this for all it's worth. It's a slow time right now after the Super Bowl so they need some buzz.

[SWMustang]

Originally posted by mwynn05
I think Tim Hardaway is getting off REALLY easy what he said is equal to if he was a white guy and said "i hate black people" and i bet if he said "i hate black people" and he was a white tracy mcgrady wouldnt have said what he said about the situation


I disagree, it's not the same thing as a white guy saying he hates black people. It was certainly inflammatory but homophobia is not the same thing as Racism. If he had just left out the "I hate gay people" I wouldn't have had a problem with his statements.

[mwynn05]

Originally posted by SWMustang
I disagree, it's not the same thing as a white guy saying he hates black people. It was certainly inflammatory but homophobia is not the same thing as Racism. If he had just left out the "I hate gay people" I wouldn't have had a problem with his statements. really its not any different he is a straight guy saying he hates gay people...you know people who are different....just because there isnt the same history doesn't mean its any different

[SWMustang]

I don't think the bible says anything derogatory about people of color. There might be a passage or two about homosexuality, though.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by SWMustang
I disagree, it's not the same thing as a white guy saying he hates black people. It was certainly inflammatory but homophobia is not the same thing as Racism. If he had just left out the "I hate gay people" I wouldn't have had a problem with his statements.

How is homophobia different than racism? Can you eloborate on your comments a bit more?

[mwynn05]

Originally posted by SWMustang
I don't think the bible says anything derogatory about people of color. There might be a passage or two about homosexuality, though. first of all what does the Bible have to do with American society in this case...In America you can worship who ever you want so that argument is moot....yes its a sin to be gay but its also a sin to hate someone weather you agree with their lifestyle or not

[Gobbla2001]

ESPN's gotta have stories, that's all this is...

Wait until a well-known gay athlete wins MVP or something... he wont be a great player, he'll just be the "first gay player to ever...."

I like ESPN, but it also gets on my last nerves... if they'd drop the "stupid stats" (first player to score 21 points on a thursday night after trailing in the second half of a 1st round playoff game) I'd like 'em better... but oh well if they wanna waste their time (and mine) on that crap...

[Blastoderm55]

A good read (http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian) for those who still think the Bible condemns homosexuality.

[SWMustang]

My previous post stated that I thought it was wrong for him to say he hated gay people. I think the Bible is relevent because many people in society use it as a compass to live their lives by.

I'm not familiar with the sin of hating others for their lifestyle. Is that in the King Liberace version of the Bible?

[Gobbla2001]

Originally posted by mwynn05
first of all what does the Bible have to do with American society in this case...In America you can worship who ever you want so that argument is moot....yes its a sin to be gay but its also a sin to hate someone weather you agree with their lifestyle or not

one nation under God... God and the Bible go hand and hand... when you discuss topics involving the American Society, most believers will relate the issues with the bible...

and when someone of a different religion discusses our society, it is only natural that they would discuss their opinions through the belief in their religion etc...

[mwynn05]

Originally posted by Gobbla2001
one nation under God... God and the Bible go hand and hand... when you discuss topics involving the American Society, most believers will relate the issues with the bible...

and when someone of a different religion discusses our society, it is only natural that they would discuss their opinions through the belief in their religion etc... so your telling me i cant believe in God yet think the Bible is BS?....not that i do im just asking if thats what your saying

[Blastoderm55]

Originally posted by Gobbla2001
one nation under God

Thanks to McCarthy.

[Gobbla2001]

Originally posted by mwynn05
so your telling me i cant believe in God yet think the Bible is BS?....not that i do im just asking if thats what your saying

if you believed that the WORD of God was BS, how could you believe "in" God...

I agree some parts of the bible may be incorrect, but calling the whole thing BS would make you a disbeliever, correct?

you know damn well what one nation under God means to most Americans, don't be a smartass...

[Bullaholic]

I think every person has the right to their opinion on any matter---controversial or not. We all must stand the scrutiny of the public for our opinions, and be ready for that. Personal opinions on certain subjects seem to be more "taboo" than others. Public chastisement for an unpopular, insensitive, or ignorant opinion causes people to apologize publically, but I doubt if it really alters their personal feelings in the long run.

[Gobbla2001]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
I think every person has the right to their opinion on any matter---controversial or not. We all must stand the scrutiny of the public for our opinions, and be ready for that. Personal opinions on certain subjects seem to be more "taboo" than others. Public chastisement for an unpopular, insensitive, or ignorant opinion causes people to apologize publically, but I doubt if it really alters their personal feelings in the long run.

ha

[mwynn05]

Originally posted by SWMustang
[B] King Liberace/B] oh your sooooooooooo proving your point with those insults...let me get back to you on the other part

[Blastoderm55]

PASSAGE 2
GENESIS 19:1-14
THE STORY OF SODOM

Now let's consider the second biblical text used by some people to condemn God's gay children. You remember the ancient story of Sodom. First, what does the story of Sodom in Genesis 19 say about God?

When Gary and I arrive at a college or university to speak, there are often protesters carrying signs that read, "Mel White, Sodomite." (Has a nice ring to it.) Actually, I'm not from Sodom. That city was buried beneath the Dead Sea centuries ago. I'm from California -- but perhaps that just confirms their suspicions!

Once again, this story is not primarily about sex. It is primarily about God. Some people say the city of Sodom was destroyed because it was overrun by sexually obsessed homosexuals. In fact, the city of Sodom had been doomed to destruction long before. So what is this passage really about?

Jesus and five Old Testament prophets all speak of the sins that led to the destruction of Sodom -- and not one of them mentions homosexuality. Even Billy Graham doesn't mention homosexuality when he preaches on Sodom.

Listen to what Ezekiel 16:48-49 tell us: "This is the sin of Sodom; she and her suburbs had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not help or encourage the poor and needy. They were arrogant and this was abominable in God's eyes."

Today, heterosexuals and homosexuals alike do well to remember that we break God's heart when we spend all we earn on ourselves, when we forget the poor and hungry, when we refuse to do justice or show mercy, when we leave strangers at the gate.

I admit, there are a lot of gay folk who are Sodomites (and a lot of straight folk as well). Sodomites are rich and don't share what they have with the poor. Sodomites have plenty and want more. While millions are hungry, homeless, and sick, Sodomites rush to build bigger homes, buy bigger cars, and own more property -- putting their trust in safer stock portfolios and more secure retirement accounts.

Whatever teaching about sexuality you might get out of this passage, be sure to hear this central, primary truth about God as well. God has called us do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with our Creator. Sodom was destroyed because its people didn't take God seriously about caring for the poor, the hungry, the homeless, or the outcast.

But what does the story of Sodom say about homosexual orientation as we understand it today? Nothing.

It was common for soldiers, thieves, and bullies to rape a fallen enemy, asserting their victory by dehumanizing and demeaning the vanquished. This act of raping an enemy is about power and revenge, not about homosexuality or homosexual orientation. And it is still happening.

In August 1997, Abner Louima, a young black immigrant from Haiti, was assaulted by several police officers after he was arrested in Brooklyn. Officer Charles Schwarz held Louima down in a restroom at the precinct, while Officer Justin Volpe rammed a broken stick into Louima's rectum. These two men and the three other officers involved in this incident and its cover-up were not gay. This was not a homosexual act. It was about power.

The sexual act that occurs in the story of Sodom is a gang rape -- and homosexuals oppose gang rape as much as anyone. That's why I believe the story of Sodom says a lot about God's will for each of us, but nothing about homosexuality as we understand it today

[Blastoderm55]

PASSAGE 3
LEVITICUS 18:22 AND 20:13
THE HOLINESS CODE

Let's move on. What do the two verses sometimes cited from Leviticus say about God?

Leviticus 18:6 reads: "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female. It is an abomination." A similar verse occurs two chapters later, in Leviticus 20:13: "A man who sleeps with another man is an abomination and should be executed." On the surface, these words could leave you feeling rather uneasy, especially if you are gay. But just below the surface is the deeper truth about God -- and it has nothing to do with sex.

Leviticus is a holiness code written 3,000 years ago. This code includes many of the outdated sexual laws we mentioned earlier, and a lot more. It also includes prohibitions against round haircuts, tattoos, working on the Sabbath, wearing garments of mixed fabrics, eating pork or shellfish, getting your fortune told, and even playing with the skin of a pig. (There goes football!)

So what's a holiness code? It's a list of behaviors that people of faith find offensive in a certain place and time. In this case, the code was written for priests only, and its primary intent was to set the priests of Israel over and against priests of other cultures.

At the age of 10, I signed a holiness code written by the Women's Christian Temperance Union that said I would never taste beer, wine, or liquor. I thought signing it would please God and my grandmother. That's a holiness code. When I was in high school we evangelical Christians had an unwritten holiness code that went like this: "I don't drink, smoke, or chew, or go with girls who do." Now I know what you're thinking. That last part about "girls who do" proved especially easy for me. But the point is that I obeyed this evangelical holiness code because my parents said that breaking these rules didn't please God, and I knew it didn't please them.

We had another evangelical holiness code while I was in high school that prohibited dancing. I was student body president, yet I refused to go to the prom because I had promised not to dance. I did this to please God and my mother -- whose mother had made her sign a holiness code that she wouldn't go to dances either.

What about this word abomination that comes up in both passages? In Hebrew, "abominations" (TO'EBAH) are behaviors that people in a certain time and place consider tasteless or offensive. To the Jews an abomination was not a law, not something evil like rape or murder forbidden by the Ten Commandments. It was a common behavior by non-Jews that Jews thought was displeasing to God.

Jesus and Paul both said the holiness code in Leviticus does not pertain to Christian believers. Nevertheless, there are still people who pull the two verses about men sleeping together from this ancient holiness code to say that the Bible seems to condemn homosexuality.

But wait, before we go any further, let's ask: What does this text say about God? Even if the old holiness codes no longer apply to us as Christians, it's important to remember that in every age, people of faith are responsible for setting moral and ethical standards that honor God. But we people of faith must be very careful not to allow our own prejudices to determine what those standards should be.

Instead of selecting one item from an ancient Jewish holiness code and using it to condemn sexual or gender minorities, let's talk together about setting sexual standards that please God -- standards appropriate for heterosexuals and homosexuals alike, standards based on loving concern, health, and wholeness for ourselves and for others.

Now what do the Leviticus passages say about homosexuality?

I'm convinced those passages say nothing about homosexuality as we understand it today. Here's why. Consider this single Bible passage that was used for centuries to condemn masturbation:

"He spilled his seed on the ground... And the thing which Onan did displeased the Lord: wherefore he slew him also" (Genesis 38:9-10).

For Jewish writers of Scripture, a man sleeping with another man was an abomination. But it was also an abomination (and one worthy of death) to masturbate or even to interrupt coitus (to halt sex with your spouse before ejaculation as an act of birth control). Why were these sexual practices considered abominations by Scripture writers in these ancient times?

Because the Hebrew pre-scientific understanding was that the male semen contained the whole of life. With no knowledge of eggs and ovulation, it was assumed that the man's sperm contained the whole child and that the woman provided only the incubating space. Therefore, the spilling of semen without possibility of having a child was considered murder.

The Jews were a small tribe struggling to populate a country. They were outnumbered by their enemy. You can see why these ancient people felt it was an abomination to risk "wasting" even a single child. But the passage says nothing about homosexuality as we understand it today.

We've talked about the passages in the Hebrew Scriptures that are used (or misused) by some people to condemn sexual minorities. Now let's look at three verses from the letters of the apostle Paul in the Christian Scriptures that are used the same way. Remember: First, we'll ask what the text says about God; second, we'll consider what it may or may not say about sexual orientation.

[pirate4state]

you guys must like banging your heads up against a brick wall :rolleyes: