Michael Irvin

[kepdawg]

Do you think he gets into the Hall of Fame tommorow?

[Gp83]

I sure hope so

[neck_06]

Originally posted by Gp83
I sure hope so

ditto

[CenTexSports]

When pigs fly.

[JakefootballGOD]

no..because of history with the law

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by JakefootballGOD
no..because of history with the law

Sure didn't stop Lawrence Taylor.

The voters are told to judge only by what the player did on the field. Of course, we all know human beings will have bias. However, you can not choose to not hold it against one player, yet hold it against another.

He deserves to be in the HOF. Period.

Some items from Rick Gosslin of the Dallas Morning News:

He averaged 4 YPC in regular season games.
He averaged 5 YPC in playoff games.
He averaged over 6 YPC in the Super Bowl.
The bigger the game, the better Irvin played.

He also did not have the luxury of having an accomplished WR on the opposite side of him during his career.

Also, don't forget his career was cut short by at least 3 years so his numbers would have been much better had he not gotten injured.

Having said all that, I think he does this year because it's not a real strong class.

[HM33]

I can see where he can get into it and where they won't let him in. We will just have to see. :P

[JakefootballGOD]

come on dude...LT or micheal irvin...no even close of a comparsion

[smustangs]

i hope he does too

[NDFootball]

I hope he gets in but there is a prejudice against the Cowboys in the NFL and anything related these days so I doubt he will.

[burnet44]

I say no
I will always say no
they will get in I'm sure
we need to stop rewarding the druts of this world
mark my word
HE GETS IN
SO WILL T.O.

SO


question is
does T.O. Get in then?


and NO Mike aint no LT
LT is probably in the top 3 all time defensive players
Ill say Butkis and Decon Jones may be the other 2

No way Mike is in the top 10 all time recievers

Jerry Rice
Cris Carter
Tim Brown
MARVIN HARRISON
Andre Reed
Art Monk
Don Hutson
Steve Largent
Henry Ellard
James Lofton
Charlie Taylor

[smustangs]

It gets me every time when people act like the HOF is about what you did off the field. Who cares what you did off the field its about on the field play and accomplishments. I dont care what you did in your personal life if your the best to play the game and you cahnged the game then you deserve to be there then put em' in.

[buff4ever]

I do think that the HOF should have some standard of who gets in. But, with that being said I put irvin in. If not now in the near future, let's not make a big deal of it.

If he is acceptable for ESPN commentating then he should not be kept out of the HOF for off the field reasons.

Come on peeps, give Harper (#80) a little love, he was atleast a threat. We also had a pretty good tight end as well. It is also pretty easy to get open behind line backers when they are worrying about emmit.

All of this condridicting type of material is just to throw it out there, 88 needs to be in the HOF, he was a huge play maker (and part of the big 3) on a team that won what 4 super bowls or 3?

[JR2004]

If they let Irvin in and deny Monk AGAIN I expect to see my fellow Redskin fans go completely crazy, myself included.

[Old Dog]

Negative !!!

[kepdawg]

He's made the final 6.

[kepdawg]

He made it!

[SintonFan_inAustin]

Originally posted by JR2004
If they let Irvin in and deny Monk AGAIN I expect to see my fellow Redskin fans go completely crazy, myself included. Monk just piled up his stats over time but was never a guy the defense gameplan for as the receiver to stop from beating you.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by SintonFan_inAustin
Monk just piled up his stats over time but was never a guy the defense gameplan for as the receiver to stop from beating you.

While I am elated I disagree

The guy was on THREE Super Bowl teams..and was the focal point of a Redskin attack that went thru many Qbs, yet he always put up numbers.

Monk should have already been in

[SintonFan_inAustin]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
While I am elated I disagree

The guy was on THREE Super Bowl teams..and was the focal point of a Redskin attack that went thru many Qbs, yet he always put up numbers.

Monk should have already been in He was one of three good receivers, i beleive they were called the smurfs. Those other two guys causing him from being a hall famer as he wasnt the go to guy all the time. Irvin was the only reciever that matchup to the Redskins smurf receivers.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by SintonFan_inAustin
He was one of three good receivers, i beleive they were called the smurfs. Those other two guys causing him from being a hall famer as he wasnt the go to guy all the time. Irvin was the only reciever that matchup to the Redskins smurf receivers.

The smurfs were not always there with Monk

In 1984 he had 106 receptions and 1300 yards..the next WR for the Skins had 42 receptions for a little over 700 yards..that shows Monk was THE man

In 1985 Gary Clark showed up on the scene..Monk still had 20 more catches and 300 more yards

86 was first year Clark had more yards..Monk still had more recpetptions

1989 was the heyday of the smurfs..and Monk STILL led the team in receptions

Again I am not saying Monk should be in and Irvin not be in..I am sayng they BOTH should be in.

Monk's biggest knock was that he was to quiet...Well is that not what people gripe about when it comes to WR these days? They are to flamboyant, to cocky...He was not, and it seems because he was not always in front of the mic and saying crazy things, then he is not getting into the HOF. Shows the voters hypocrisy

[smustangs]

woo hoo congrats irvin

[Matthew328]

Irvin was a no brainer....he had an auroa about him on the field and was the unquestioned leader of the Cowboys....heard Aikman sent a packet in that supported Irvin which showed how he just torced the league's top DB's....his off the field stuff hurts, but the HOF is about what you do on the field...

[smustangs]

Originally posted by Matthew328
Irvin was a no brainer....he had an auroa about him on the field and was the unquestioned leader of the Cowboys....heard Aikman sent a packet in that supported Irvin which showed how he just torced the league's top DB's....his off the field stuff hurts, but the HOF is about what you do on the field...


AMEN exactly what i was tryin to say earlier but im not quiet as good w/ words

[Macarthur]

burnet44

and NO Mike aint no LT
LT is probably in the top 3 all time defensive players
Ill say Butkis and Decon Jones may be the other 2

No way Mike is in the top 10 all time recievers

Jerry Rice
Cris Carter
Tim Brown
MARVIN HARRISON
Andre Reed
Art Monk
Don Hutson
Steve Largent
Henry Ellard
James Lofton
Charlie Taylor

I would not say Mike was a better player than LT, but that was not my point.

There is only one of those WRs I would put ahead of Irvin. Are you kidding or are you smoking crack?

Cris Carter
Steve Largent
Henry Ellard
James Lofton
...

I'm not even going to type all those names.

Outside of Rice, those other wish they were half the WR Irvin was (it's not just about numbers; see Art Monk). There was not a CB in the league that could cover him. He faced double teams every single week and still put up those numbers. And not just numbers, he made huge plays at huge points of the game. And don't forget, his career was cut short by a few years so his numbers are deceiving. They should be much higher.

Irving shold be a first ballot HOFer. Are you telling me Steve Young was a first ballot and Irvin isn't (off the field excluded)?

Some of you guys are down grading what he did because of the off the field stuff.


JR2004

If they let Irvin in and deny Monk AGAIN I expect to see my fellow Redskin fans go completely crazy, myself included.

Let me first say, I think Monk should be in, but he was never the WR Irvin was. Monk was not nearly as dynamic and game changing. Monk was steady, consistent and solid in every sense of the word, but as someone said earlier, teams didn't have to gameplan Monk like they did IRvin.

[NDFootball]

Today is a good day :clap:

Congrats to Michael Irvin, he's earned it.

[JR2004]

Originally posted by SintonFan_inAustin
Monk just piled up his stats over time but was never a guy the defense gameplan for as the receiver to stop from beating you.

lol...Take the 10 full seasons Monk played from 1980-1991. He averaged 73 catches a season. Let's say he would've had one of his average seasons in the strike shortened seasons of 82 and 87. Instead of finishing with 940 catches for 12,721 yards the man would've finished his career with 1,013 CATCHES for well over 13,000 yards receiving.

How much more ridiculous would those idiot HOF voters look keeping him out if he would've finished with over a 1000 catches? The voting process is a complete joke. I wish these guys would have to go public with who they vote for.

[Matthew328]

Here was a great point from theoldcoach...posted by TBALL


"Let's condemn a sports figure for having a drug problem in this country. That's laughable. Why don't the same finger pointers condemn Elvis Pressley. He died on a toilet injecting drugs, but we honor his memory and put him on a stamp. Go figure.

HOF players are judged on their accomplishments in the game. Irvin deserves to be in. "

Couldn't agree more

[burnet44]

If he is acceptable for ESPN commentating then he should not be kept out of the HOF for off the field reasons.

a ringing endorsement

I dont honor Elvis

I do believe there should be SOME standard

like now

standard is smoke crack play good

its not just about Irvin
its all the others you let in who are the same

if you have no standards
the HOF is the same
no standards

fine let all the crack heads in
yeah see the kind of people we hold up

yeah good job

merrimen gets in
raffy
mark mcquire
bonds

hell give ben johnson the record back
why test for drugs?

why do we test for drugs and allow drug heads into the HOF
NOW THAT IS A DOUBLE STANDARD IF YOU WANT ONE


I would never allow them in
it tarnishes men like Mel Renfro
a man who works our camp a lot
one of the finest people you will ever meet


my daughter even asked me
why do they get in for using drugs

answer that?

ya cant

which is a true reflection on our society
make excuses for the druts

see where we have gone?

the harder you defend them
the more quilty they are

[NDFootball]

The argument is that what they do off the field is their business, and HOF is for their accomplishments ON THE FIELD.

So no Merrimen still shouldn't get in (he's been in the league 2 years he really hasn't proved that much) along with Bonds and McGwire, because they took PERFORMANCE ENHANCING drugs, which affect them ON THE FIELD. Cocaine doesn't...not saying it's right but it won't enhance your speed, strength, etc. in any way. The argument against Bonds and McGwire is that they cheated...I don't think taking cocaine is cheating.

So there's an answer for your daughter...

And for an earlier post yes TO should still get in, unless he proves he's a roid rager too. I'm not saying having cocaine is right but being a good person isn't necessarily a requirement to get into sports HOF. The NFL isn't bible study. Comparing steroids to cocaine for drugs isn't very accurate.

[Matthew328]

If the HOF had a bylaw that said something about being a "bad person" off the field and that would keep you out..I am all for keeping him out...fact of the matter is based on his on field performance he should be in...until the bylaws change thats the way it is...

I guess everyone has opinions on Irvin....but no one can deny the player he was...

[pirate4state]

WOO HOO!!!! I'm glad he is in!!! :D :D :D


I just love all the :weeping: :weeping: :weeping: going on about his off field antics......WHO CARES??? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: OFF FIELD is not what the HOF is about....get a grip!!!

[NDFootball]

LT had drug problems too. He got in. People that say you can't compare LT and Irvin are contradicting themselves. They say 'Well LT got it done on Sundays, he was perhaps the best of all time at his position.' So in fact they are saying since he was SO good, that his drug problems are excusable and should be allowed in, while Irvin can't? Please...like I said before HOF shouldn't be determined by off the field antics...otherwise it's not a HOF for that sport anymore. I bet lots of people in the HOF right now aren't exactly saints themselves. Then you could talk about the media running with stuff like this...but we're not going there :D

[burnet44]

athletic ability=excuses for behavior in this country

"Comparing steroids to cocaine for drugs isn't very accurate."

both illegal
yeah I know 1 is supposed to be preformance helping
its all about performance
like I said play good do drugs get into the HOF

If its all about performance
hell why arrest the Enron guys
hell they performed
yes illegally just like doing coke
its illegal but they performed

as I stated above
athletic performance-excuses for behavior

ok
doesnt players get suspended for using (if caught, somtimes)
for using coke, marryjuwanna, ect?

WHY SUSPEND THEM IF IT DOESNT MATTER?

SUSPEND THEM AND THEY STILL GO TO THE HOF?

LT-Irvin-ect

why test if it dont matter?
let em all do drugs


the HOF should be shamefull
but they aint

OJ is in
what if he had killed Nicole and Ron before he got in
do you let him in too
murder is illegal but he was a player
had the numbers the on the field performance
he gets in

what about the guy who does drugs and is just a so = so player
its ok to do drugs-the hof'ers do it I can too

why then does Pete Rose not get a pass?
( I wouldnt let Pete in ethier)
its on the field he is the all time hit leader
its not illegal to bet on baseball

why is he held to a higher standard than Irvin-LT ect

the hall is BS

the media should be talking about Mathews

Played in more games (296) than any positional player in NFL history. . .Played at every position on line. . .Named to first of record-tying 14 consecutive Pro Bowl teams (9 at guard, 5 at center) following 1988 season. . .All-Pro 9 times and All-AFC 12 times. . .

He made his most starts at guard (99 on the left side, and 67 as the right guard) and center (87). He also started 22 games as the team’s right tackle and 17 at left tackle.


but the media will talk about Irvin

again defend them
make excuses for them
makes em more guilty

[District303aPastPlayer]

Originally posted by burnet44
athletic ability=excuses for behavior in this country

"Comparing steroids to cocaine for drugs isn't very accurate."

both illegal
yeah I know 1 is supposed to be preformance helping
its all about performance
like I sad play good do drugs get into the HOF

If its all about performance
hell why arrest the Enron guys
hell they performed
yes illegally just like doing coke
its illegal but they performed

as I stated above
athletic performance-excuses for behavior

ok
doesnt players get suspended for using (if caught, somtimes)
for using coke, marryjuwanna, ect?

WHY SUSPEND THEM IF IT DOESNT MATTER?

SUSPEND THEM AND THEY STILL GO TO THE HOF?

LT-Irvin-ect

why test if it dont matter?
let em all do drugs


the HOF should be shamefull
but they aint

i seriously don't understand any of your posts lately...

[burnet44]

Originally posted by District303aPastPlayer
i seriously don't understand any of your posts lately...

yeah a lot of people wont understand
its ok
i can sleep at night

[District303aPastPlayer]

Originally posted by burnet44
yeah a lot of people wont understand
its ok
i can sleep at night

i want to understand it though, because im sure in there is a valid point... but its just deciphering it is somewhat complicated as the message is written complexly...

[burnet44]

I am such a complex person

lol

NOT

all i said
let all the druggies in
there is no standard
so hold them to none

and IF there is a standard

what is is?

just play
nothing else matters
be a drug head get into the HOF

ya cant work at Wal-Mart
but you can be in the HOF

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by District303aPastPlayer
i seriously don't understand any of your posts lately...

I'm with you dist30.

burnet44, i just love your kind of self righteousness.

There are very few of use that if in our 20's, we were given more money than we could count and beautiful women throwing themselves at us everyday, could say they would never stray off the right path. Not saying it's right; it's just not unheard of that a young person that is presented with few boundaries will stray outside those boundaries.

There are countless numbers of men in the clergy that lived lifes of sin in their young life. They suddenly come to know the Lord and all the sudden they are celebrated as great men. By all accounts, Irvin has gotten his life straightened out. He willingly admits to his past mistakes and is contrite. It really is sad to me that so many here are unwilling to forgive people for their mistakes.

[Who-dun-it!!?]

I have an autographed card of Micheal Irving and I hope he never gets excepted into th hall of fame. The only reason I keep it is it belonged to my little brother who passed away in 1994. Back then we were big fans of his but that was before we learned what a piece of #$@! he really is.

[NDFootball]

Originally posted by burnet44
athletic ability=excuses for behavior in this country

"Comparing steroids to cocaine for drugs isn't very accurate."

both illegal
yeah I know 1 is supposed to be preformance helping
its all about performance
like I said play good do drugs get into the HOF

If its all about performance
hell why arrest the Enron guys
hell they performed
yes illegally just like doing coke
its illegal but they performed

as I stated above
athletic performance-excuses for behavior

ok
doesnt players get suspended for using (if caught, somtimes)
for using coke, marryjuwanna, ect?

WHY SUSPEND THEM IF IT DOESNT MATTER?

SUSPEND THEM AND THEY STILL GO TO THE HOF?

LT-Irvin-ect

why test if it dont matter?
let em all do drugs


the HOF should be shamefull
but they aint

OJ is in
what if he had killed Nicole and Ron before he got in
do you let him in too
murder is illegal but he was a player
had the numbers the on the field performance
he gets in

what about the guy who does drugs and is just a so = so player
its ok to do drugs-the hof'ers do it I can too

why then does Pete Rose not get a pass?
( I wouldnt let Pete in ethier)
its on the field he is the all time hit leader
its not illegal to bet on baseball

why is he held to a higher standard than Irvin-LT ect

the hall is BS

the media should be talking about Mathews

Played in more games (296) than any positional player in NFL history. . .Played at every position on line. . .Named to first of record-tying 14 consecutive Pro Bowl teams (9 at guard, 5 at center) following 1988 season. . .All-Pro 9 times and All-AFC 12 times. . .

He made his most starts at guard (99 on the left side, and 67 as the right guard) and center (87). He also started 22 games as the team’s right tackle and 17 at left tackle.


but the media will talk about Irvin

again defend them
make excuses for them
makes em more guilty

Accounting fraud and murder...compared to doing drugs? Yes again I'm going to say that's not accurate. OJ should get into the HOF like you said, because this is about what he did on the field his crime doesn't take away from the football player he was. So if you want to bring the Enron guys into this as ridiculous as that is, it had to do with the company's money...so if you want to use that comparison then yes they were cheating. Pete Rose actually had to do with the game by betting on baseball. Then comes implications of cheating, etc., etc. so that's not real accurate either. The guy that is "so so" well if he's so so no one really cares about him anyways it would've never made the news...so none of him would be arguing about him anyways...and he's not any different from LT and Irvin, what he does off the field is his business...not the public's. I agree with you when you say it's wrong but they don't need to be good people to get in the NFL HALL OF FAME.

You're right Mathews should be on the news. What he did on the field was very impressive, like Irvin was ON THE FIELD. So you're saying since he did those things and wasn't caught doin coc he's excused of all else he's done in his life...everybody has skeletons in their closet. ...Too bad he's not in the news... drama sells though...the liberal media eats it up.

Since you're just comparing things that are illegal. I'm sure you've driven over the speed limit. That's illegal. So according to your comparison you're a horrible person and you should be condemned.

[burnet44]

Originally posted by NDFootball
Accounting fraud and murder...compared to doing drugs? Yes again I'm going to say that's not accurate.

BOTH ARE ILLEGAL AND OFF THE FIELD
PERFORMANCE IS ALL THAT COUNTS
THEY PERFORMED WELL
OJ DID IT SO WELL HE DIDNT GET CAUGHT
ENRON GUYS DID IT SO WELL THE COMPANY PERFORMED WELL
TILL IT ALL CAVED IN ON THME
LIKE THE COPS BUSTING INTO MIKES ROOM WITH THE HOOKERS AND CRACK

OJ should get into the HOF like you said, because this is about what he did on the field his crime doesn't take away from the football player he was.

I SAID THAT THE PEOPLE HERE SAY HE SHOULD BE IN
I THINK HE SHOULD BE OUT

YOU GUYS ARE PICKING SITUATIONS AND SAYING ITS OK


So if you want to bring the Enron guys into this as ridiculous as that is, it had to do with the company's money...so if you want to use that comparison then yes they were cheating.

CHEATING IS WORSE THAN DRUGS
WHAT ABOUT PERFORMANCE?
THEY PERFORMED WELL
THEY SHOULD BE HOF'ERS


Pete Rose actually had to do with the game by betting on baseball. Then comes implications of cheating, etc., etc. so that's not real accurate either.

DRUGS ILLEGAL-CHEATING ILLEGAL?
PETE'S WAS OFF THE FIELD
PERFORMANCE IS THE ONLY THING THAT COUNTS RIGHT?

The guy that is "so so" well if he's so so no one really cares about him anyways it would've never made the news...so none of him would be arguing about him anyways...and he's not any different from LT and Irvin, what he does off the field is his business...not the public's.


PLEASE READ THAT AGAIN?
"NO ONE CARES" WHY
BECAUSE HE DIDNT PERFORM
"AND HE IS NOT ANY DIFFERENT THAN IRVIN AND LT"
YEAH HE IS THEY ARE IN THE HALL HE AINT
AGAIN SITUATIONAL MORALITY
ITS OK IF THEY PERFORM

READ WHAT I SAID
ATHLETIC PERFORMANCE=EXCUSE FOR BEHAVIOR


I agree with you when you say it's wrong but they don't need to be good people to get in the NFL HALL OF FAME.

JUST PERFORM HUH

You're right Mathews should be on the news. What he did on the field was very impressive, like Irvin was ON THE FIELD. So you're saying since he did those things and wasn't caught doin coc he's excused of all else he's done in his life...everybody has skeletons in their closet. ...Too bad he's not in the news... drama sells though...the liberal media eats it up.

NO THE LIBERAL MEDIA GIVES THE CRACK GUYS A PASS TO THE HALL
WHO VOTES ON IT
THE MEDIA



Since you're just comparing things that are illegal. I'm sure you've driven over the speed limit. That's illegal. So according to your comparison you're a horrible person and you should be condemned.

SURE CONDEM ME
IM NOT GOING TO THE HOF


MY POINT IS WE REWARD THE DRUTS OF THIS WORLD
WE DONT PUNISH EM
THAT WHT WE HAVE SO MANY AND ARE GITTING MORE

OK
YOU SON DOES CRACK
IS A GREAT PLAYER
HAS A HOF CAREER
ITS OK WITH YOU BECAUSE
HE HAS THE NUMBERS
WOULD YOU GIVE HIS SPEECH TO BE IN THE HOF?

MIKE IS SOMEONES KID

[burnet44]

Originally posted by NDFootball [/i]
Accounting fraud and murder...compared to doing drugs? Yes again I'm going to say that's not accurate.

BOTH ARE ILLEGAL AND OFF THE FIELD
PERFORMANCE IS ALL THAT COUNTS
THEY PERFORMED WELL
OJ DID IT SO WELL HE DIDNT GET CAUGHT
ENRON GUYS DID IT SO WELL THE COMPANY PERFORMED WELL
TILL IT ALL CAVED IN ON THME
LIKE THE COPS BUSTING INTO MIKES ROOM WITH THE HOOKERS AND CRACK

OJ should get into the HOF like you said, because this is about what he did on the field his crime doesn't take away from the football player he was.

I SAID THAT THE PEOPLE HERE SAY HE SHOULD BE IN
I THINK HE SHOULD BE OUT

YOU GUYS ARE PICKING SITUATIONS AND SAYING ITS OK


So if you want to bring the Enron guys into this as ridiculous as that is, it had to do with the company's money...so if you want to use that comparison then yes they were cheating.

CHEATING IS WORSE THAN DRUGS
WHAT ABOUT PERFORMANCE?
THEY PERFORMED WELL
THEY SHOULD BE HOF'ERS


Pete Rose actually had to do with the game by betting on baseball. Then comes implications of cheating, etc., etc. so that's not real accurate either.

DRUGS ILLEGAL-CHEATING ILLEGAL?
PETE'S WAS OFF THE FIELD
PERFORMANCE IS THE ONLY THING THAT COUNTS RIGHT?

The guy that is "so so" well if he's so so no one really cares about him anyways it would've never made the news...so none of him would be arguing about him anyways...and he's not any different from LT and Irvin, what he does off the field is his business...not the public's.


PLEASE READ THAT AGAIN?
"NO ONE CARES" WHY
BECAUSE HE DIDNT PERFORM
"AND HE IS NOT ANY DIFFERENT THAN IRVIN AND LT"
YEAH HE IS THEY ARE IN THE HALL HE AINT
AGAIN SITUATIONAL MORALITY
ITS OK IF THEY PERFORM

READ WHAT I SAID
ATHLETIC PERFORMANCE=EXCUSE FOR BEHAVIOR


I agree with you when you say it's wrong but they don't need to be good people to get in the NFL HALL OF FAME.

JUST PERFORM HUH

You're right Mathews should be on the news. What he did on the field was very impressive, like Irvin was ON THE FIELD. So you're saying since he did those things and wasn't caught doin coc he's excused of all else he's done in his life...everybody has skeletons in their closet. ...Too bad he's not in the news... drama sells though...the liberal media eats it up.

NO THE LIBERAL MEDIA GIVES THE CRACK GUYS A PASS TO THE HALL
WHO VOTES ON IT
THE MEDIA



Since you're just comparing things that are illegal. I'm sure you've driven over the speed limit. That's illegal. So according to your comparison you're a horrible person and you should be condemned.

SURE CONDEM ME
IM NOT GOING TO THE HOF


MY POINT IS WE REWARD THE DRUTS OF THIS WORLD
WE DONT PUNISH EM
THAT WHT WE HAVE SO MANY AND ARE GITTING MORE

OK
YOU SON DOES CRACK
IS A GREAT PLAYER
HAS A HOF CAREER
ITS OK WITH YOU BECAUSE
HE HAS THE NUMBERS
WOULD YOU GIVE HIS SPEECH TO BE IN THE HOF?

MIKE IS SOMEONES KID

[NDFootball]

Originally posted by burnet44
Originally posted by NDFootball [/i]
Accounting fraud and murder...compared to doing drugs? Yes again I'm going to say that's not accurate.

BOTH ARE ILLEGAL AND OFF THE FIELD
PERFORMANCE IS ALL THAT COUNTS
THEY PERFORMED WELL
OJ DID IT SO WELL HE DIDNT GET CAUGHT
ENRON GUYS DID IT SO WELL THE COMPANY PERFORMED WELL
TILL IT ALL CAVED IN ON THME
LIKE THE COPS BUSTING INTO MIKES ROOM WITH THE HOOKERS AND CRACK

OJ should get into the HOF like you said, because this is about what he did on the field his crime doesn't take away from the football player he was.

I SAID THAT THE PEOPLE HERE SAY HE SHOULD BE IN
I THINK HE SHOULD BE OUT

YOU GUYS ARE PICKING SITUATIONS AND SAYING ITS OK


So if you want to bring the Enron guys into this as ridiculous as that is, it had to do with the company's money...so if you want to use that comparison then yes they were cheating.

CHEATING IS WORSE THAN DRUGS
WHAT ABOUT PERFORMANCE?
THEY PERFORMED WELL
THEY SHOULD BE HOF'ERS


Pete Rose actually had to do with the game by betting on baseball. Then comes implications of cheating, etc., etc. so that's not real accurate either.

DRUGS ILLEGAL-CHEATING ILLEGAL?
PETE'S WAS OFF THE FIELD
PERFORMANCE IS THE ONLY THING THAT COUNTS RIGHT?

The guy that is "so so" well if he's so so no one really cares about him anyways it would've never made the news...so none of him would be arguing about him anyways...and he's not any different from LT and Irvin, what he does off the field is his business...not the public's.


PLEASE READ THAT AGAIN?
"NO ONE CARES" WHY
BECAUSE HE DIDNT PERFORM
"AND HE IS NOT ANY DIFFERENT THAN IRVIN AND LT"
YEAH HE IS THEY ARE IN THE HALL HE AINT
AGAIN SITUATIONAL MORALITY
ITS OK IF THEY PERFORM

READ WHAT I SAID
ATHLETIC PERFORMANCE=EXCUSE FOR BEHAVIOR


I agree with you when you say it's wrong but they don't need to be good people to get in the NFL HALL OF FAME.

JUST PERFORM HUH

You're right Mathews should be on the news. What he did on the field was very impressive, like Irvin was ON THE FIELD. So you're saying since he did those things and wasn't caught doin coc he's excused of all else he's done in his life...everybody has skeletons in their closet. ...Too bad he's not in the news... drama sells though...the liberal media eats it up.

NO THE LIBERAL MEDIA GIVES THE CRACK GUYS A PASS TO THE HALL
WHO VOTES ON IT
THE MEDIA



Since you're just comparing things that are illegal. I'm sure you've driven over the speed limit. That's illegal. So according to your comparison you're a horrible person and you should be condemned.

SURE CONDEM ME
IM NOT GOING TO THE HOF


MY POINT IS WE REWARD THE DRUTS OF THIS WORLD
WE DONT PUNISH EM
THAT WHT WE HAVE SO MANY AND ARE GITTING MORE

OK
YOU SON DOES CRACK
IS A GREAT PLAYER
HAS A HOF CAREER
ITS OK WITH YOU BECAUSE
HE HAS THE NUMBERS
WOULD YOU GIVE HIS SPEECH TO BE IN THE HOF?

MIKE IS SOMEONES KID

If my kid did crack (which is different from cocaine btw) that's a seperate issue from football. If you're worried about rewarding bad people of the world you need to look other places than the NFL HOF there's much worse out there. The "so so" guy isn't in the HOF because he didn't perform you're right...being a good person will get you a pat on the back...not much else. What Irvin does or anyone else for that matter is none of your business and it's none of mine. If you're so upset with bad people being rewarded focus on something other than a sports commentator. So yes "just perform"...it's not any different than an All State team here. People give those kinds of honors based on performance, not good karma points. Pete Rose betting on baseball was cheating...he could've thrown games...etc. That's why he didn't get in. I'm sure you're just so perfect yourself aren't you to go around judging what others should get because of what they've done? And yeah those Enron guys did perform well...but they cheated, and they got what a cheater deserved. Cocaine is in no way cheating, if anything it'd be harder on you. Illegal yes but there are illegal events occuring everywhere by people that act like they've never done anything wrong good luck getting rid of it :thumbsup:


So yes I would give my kid's speech to get in the HOF...because he would be a great football player and that's why they're in the HOF in the first place...like I've stated before...this isn't bible study.

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by Who-dun-it!!?
I have an autographed card of Micheal Irving and I hope he never gets excepted into th hall of fame. The only reason I keep it is it belonged to my little brother who passed away in 1994. Back then we were big fans of his but that was before we learned what a piece of #$@! he really is. I'm sorry about your brother, but he got in. You must not be a fan of alot of players since Mike isn't the only one to get his nose dirty. Not saying it's right, just saying what it is. Oh well.

[burnet44]

people who defend drug use just amaze me

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by burnet44
people who defend drug use just amaze me

No one is "defending" drug use.

You ever make a mistake, burnett44?

[burnet44]

daily
but Im not being rewarded for it
Im not HOFer

yeah you are saying drug use is ok

as i have posted

athletic performence=excuses for behavior

its ok mike did he catches passes

thats defending

people who defend wrong amaze me

[Who-dun-it!!?]

Originally posted by pirate4state
I'm sorry about your brother, but he got in. You must not be a fan of alot of players since Mike isn't the only one to get his nose dirty. Not saying it's right, just saying what it is. Oh well.

your absolutly right! I'm not a fan of alot of players because of there off the field behavior. they are role modles for our children wether we like it or not. and i think they owe us as fans to be the positive role modles that they use to be. They all wanna be individuals now, and team loyalty is almost non-existant. Don't get me wrong, i love to watch football and i've been a cowboy fan all my life. but i wish the nfl could get back to the pure form of football it use to be before the strike. back when scoring a touchdown was more important than the inzone celebration. there are still a lot of nfl players with class. and hell, football is a great game. and although there are a lot of players i don't like i won't boycott them anytime soon. I don't like T.O. either, but I hope he scores 50 td's for the boys next season.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by burnet44
daily
but Im not being rewarded for it
Im not HOFer

yeah you are saying drug use is ok

as i have posted

athletic performence=excuses for behavior

its ok mike did he catches passes

thats defending

people who defend wrong amaze me

could you please change the way you post? It is very difficult to follow.

I do not think those that do not care about off the field are condoning his behavior. They are simply saying they don't care.

No one rewarding him for his mistakes. Man, your self-righteousness is madening.

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by Who-dun-it!!?
your absolutly right! I'm not a fan of alot of players because of there off the field behavior. they are role modles for our children wether we like it or not. and i think they owe us as fans to be the positive role modles that they use to be. They all wanna be individuals now, and team loyalty is almost non-existant. Don't get me wrong, i love to watch football and i've been a cowboy fan all my life. but i wish the nfl could get back to the pure form of football it use to be before the strike. back when scoring a touchdown was more important than the inzone celebration. there are still a lot of nfl players with class. and hell, football is a great game. and although there are a lot of players i don't like i won't boycott them anytime soon. I don't like T.O. either, but I hope he scores 50 td's for the boys next season.

the biggest problem is people ALLOWING them to be role models. if you are a positive influence in kids lives they won't have to look elsewhere.

"you" = in general before anyone gets offended.....

[BuffyMars]

I somehow missed this thread......:helpme:

Here I was thinking it was sad that the drugs were holding him back from making it into the HOF...

Now make no mistakes, I do not condone drug use, but I don't think it should reflect the man's performance on the field.

He was an outstanding ball player and that is what should be remembered.

[themsu97]

Burnet... I am with you... the problem is most of the people are used to the double standard and are okay with whatever as long as you have ability...
so what most of these people are saying is that if you had a stud athlete on your team, who cares what he does as long as he performs on the field...
you and I are in the same boat, he does not belong. Let Bonds in, let mcGuire in, let Palmeiro in. let the black sox in as well... the football hof is a joke anyway, a certain amount have to get in anyway... and if Irvin is in, Monk definitely belongs... look at Irvin's # after Novacek retired... Irvin had Harper, big catches in big games, and Novacek as well as Emmitt and Moose to help them...
some of us would love to have had or have the opportunity to play pro and make the big bucks, but some of us also have the sense not to be stupid or act like a fool

[burnet44]

Originally posted by Macarthur
could you please change the way you post? It is very difficult to follow.

I do not think those that do not care about off the field are condoning his behavior. They are simply saying they don't care.

No one rewarding him for his mistakes. Man, your self-righteousness is madening.

Sure
By not caring you condone it. you turn a blind eye too it.
I have always thought if you dont stand for something you will fall for everything.

Being in the HOF isnt a reward?

I am not self righteousness. I get punished daily for my mess ups.
He just because he is a drug head doesnt mean that I have to agree to let him into the HOF.

Seperation of a person of who he is isnt possible. The guy is a drughead who just happens to play football. HE IS BOTH.
So was Elvis who just happened to be a good singer. If you dont want the scruitiny then dont do drugs.

I still will stand by my statemant.

People who condone drug use just amaze me.

People who make excuses for drug heads just amaze me.

Making excuses for people makes it ok. I will not do that.
Bash me all you want.

If you dont stand for something you will fall for everything.

[BuffyMars]

Good lord....this is just crazy....:hand:

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by burnet44
Sure
By not caring you condone it. you turn a blind eye too it.
I have always thought if you dont stand for something you will fall for everything.

Being in the HOF isnt a reward?

I am not self righteousness. I get punished daily for my mess ups.
He just because he is a drug head doesnt mean that I have to agree to let him into the HOF.

Seperation of a person of who he is isnt possible. The guy is a drughead who just happens to play football. HE IS BOTH.
So was Elvis who just happened to be a good singer. If you dont want the scruitiny then dont do drugs.

I still will stand by my statemant.

People who condone drug use just amaze me.

People who make excuses for drug heads just amaze me.

Making excuses for people makes it ok. I will not do that.
Bash me all you want.

If you dont stand for something you will fall for everything.

ok here goes

I think Drugs should be legal..What someone does to their own body is THEIR choice.

The "war on drugs" will NEVER be won..The government is just throwing our tax dollars into a neverending flushing toilet that will not be fixed. Instead we crowd our jail houses with druggies.

Why is drugs any worse than tobacco or drinking? Simply put..tobacco is a plant that pretty much propped up places here in the US like North Carolina.

IF Cocaine would have been that much of a cash cow to a state then I PROMISE you it would be tobacco illegal and not cocaine.

Legalize it..tax the crap put of it..and make HARSH..and I mean HARSH penalties for selling to a minor.

[BuffyMars]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
ok here goes

I think Drugs should be legal..What someone does to their own body is THEIR choice.

The "war on drugs" will NEVER be won..The government is just throwing our tax dollars into a neverending flushing toilet that will not be fixed. Instead we crowd our jail houses with druggies.

Why is drugs any worse than tobacco or drinking? Simply put..tobacco is a plant that pretty much propped up places here in the US like North Carolina.

IF Cocaine would have been that much of a cash cow to a state then I PROMISE you it would be tobacco illegal and not cocaine.

Legalize it..tax the crap put of it..and make HARSH..and I mean HARSH penalties for selling to a minor.

OMG!! I can't believe you just said that! You are going to Hades in a handbasket on a bobsled.

And I could not agree with you any more! :thumbsup:

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by BuffyMars
OMG!! I can't believe you just said that! You are going to Hades in a handbasket on a bobsled.

And I could not agree with you any more! :thumbsup:

Sweety u should know I have a vacation home in Hades already:devil:

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
ok here goes

I think Drugs should be legal..What someone does to their own body is THEIR choice.

The "war on drugs" will NEVER be won..The government is just throwing our tax dollars into a neverending flushing toilet that will not be fixed. Instead we crowd our jail houses with druggies.

Why is drugs any worse than tobacco or drinking? Simply put..tobacco is a plant that pretty much propped up places here in the US like North Carolina.

IF Cocaine would have been that much of a cash cow to a state then I PROMISE you it would be tobacco illegal and not cocaine.

Legalize it..tax the crap put of it..and make HARSH..and I mean HARSH penalties for selling to a minor.

:) Guess we are a bunch of hippies for thinking with an open mind. ;)

[99IHSMustang]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
ok here goes

I think Drugs should be legal..What someone does to their own body is THEIR choice.

The "war on drugs" will NEVER be won..The government is just throwing our tax dollars into a neverending flushing toilet that will not be fixed. Instead we crowd our jail houses with druggies.

Why is drugs any worse than tobacco or drinking? Simply put..tobacco is a plant that pretty much propped up places here in the US like North Carolina.

IF Cocaine would have been that much of a cash cow to a state then I PROMISE you it would be tobacco illegal and not cocaine.

Legalize it..tax the crap put of it..and make HARSH..and I mean HARSH penalties for selling to a minor.

"Drugs are bad... umkay!"

[Matthew328]

War on drugs likely won't be won....are drugs bad for you? YES!! But so is alcohol and tobacco...cigarettes kill more people than most narcotics...but that's another debate....

I am wondering if any baseball players who drank during prohibition would be excluded from the HOF in some folks eyes? It was illegal you know..

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by burnet44
[B]Sure
By not caring you condone it. you turn a blind eye too it.
I have always thought if you dont stand for something you will fall for everything.

Being in the HOF isnt a reward?

But do you ever forgive anyone? By all accounts, Irvin has gotten his life straightened out. He has to live with the scarlet letter for the rest of his life? I bet you wouldn't hold everyone to that standard?

What if someone in your church that you respected was discovered to be a drug user, adulterer, etc. What if they come before the church and repent. Would you forgive them?



I am not self righteousness. I get punished daily for my mess ups.

You may not think you are, but your attitude reeks of self-righteousness.



He just because he is a drug head doesnt mean that I have to agree to let him into the HOF.

I suppose not. Would you feel different if he were not a drug head anymore?



Seperation of a person of who he is isnt possible. The guy is a drughead who just happens to play football. HE IS BOTH.
So was Elvis who just happened to be a good singer. If you dont want the scruitiny then dont do drugs.

I still will stand by my statemant.

Again, no redemption in your world?


People who condone drug use just amaze me.

People who make excuses for drug heads just amaze me.

Making excuses for people makes it ok. I will not do that.
Bash me all you want.

People in glass houses that throw stones amaze me.


If you dont stand for something you will fall for everything.

Tired.

Txbroadcaster, I think you are on to something. However, I would be more in favor of decriminalization of drugs instead of making them legal.

[BuffyMars]

Just out of curiosity, since we are still on this subject....

What about all of the "role model" athletes that cheat on their wives?

Are they setting a good example for young America? I mean if thats what we are worried about.

Does that mean they should not be included in the HOF?

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by BuffyMars
Just out of curiosity, since we are still on this subject....

What about all of the "role model" athletes that cheat on their wives?

Are they setting a good example for young America? I mean if thats what we are worried about.

Does that mean they should not be included in the HOF?

Hwy Warren Moon was arrested for spousal abuse..NOT A PEEP about that when he got elected

[BuffyMars]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Hwy Warren Moon was arrested for spousal abuse..NOT A PEEP about that when he got elected

OMG! YOU DON'T SAY! :rolleyes:

[Macarthur]

That's the problem with folks like Burnet44's line of thinking. Where do you draw that line and who makes that decision? And obviously, Burnet44 would never forgive anyone that ever makes a mistake so there would only be about 5 people in the HOF.

[District303aPastPlayer]

Originally posted by Macarthur
That's the problem with folks like Burnet44's line of thinking. Where do you draw that line and who makes that decision? And obviously, Burnet44 would never forgive anyone that ever makes a mistake so there would only be about 5 people in the HOF.

thats giving too many people credit for living "perfect" lives...

[burnet44]

you guys are not reading my


terrible english

I just said dont let him in to the HOF
because he did/does drugs

Let him do all the drugs he wants
let ESPN keep him as an analyst


just dont let him into the HOF

forgive him all you want
he is a great guy

just dont reward drug users
but if you are going to
barry, lt, merryman ect
let em all in

No one has answerd this

WHY TEST FOR DRUGS
SUSPEND DRUG USERS IN THE LEAGUE
WHEN YOU LET THEM INOT THE HOF

QUIT DRUG TESTING
ITS A WASTE OF TIME

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by burnet44
you guys are not reading my


terrible english

I just said dont let him in to the HOF
because he did/does drugs

Let him do all the drugs he wants
let ESPN keep him as an analyst


just dont let him into the HOF

forgive him all you want
he is a great guy

just dont reward drug users
but if you are going to
barry, lt, merryman ect
let em all in

No one has answerd this

WHY TEST FOR DRUGS
SUSPEND DRUG USERS IN THE LEAGUE
WHEN YOU LET THEM INOT THE HOF

QUIT DRUG TESTING
ITS A WASTE OF TIME

Why single out drug users? That is my question..how is drug use worse than spousal abuse? Also Irvin NEVER FAILED a drug test while in the NFL

[themsu97]

wow... the screaming liberals are awake now... why screen murderers... dwi's... heck make it all legal and we can have mass chaos... one compromise leads to others and then there are no laws...drugs are illegal, Irvin got caught...
and honestly, not a great receiver anyway and I would be willing to bet if it were like baseball, he would never get in...
a certain # have to get in every year and you do not have to recieve a certain amount of votes...
I bet ya'll think that Palmeiro, Canseco and McGuire should get in to the baseball hof

[burnet44]

arrested on/with drugs

people who make excuses for drug users amaze me

and as for other crimes
yeah I would be in favor of that

bashing me will continue here

Im just tired of rewarding illegal behavior just because they are good athletes


fire away

make excuses for them

Im sure OJ is ok too

he is in mike is in
let em all in

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by burnet44
arrested on/with drugs

people who make excuses for drug users amaze me

and as for other crimes
yeah I would be in favor of that

bashing me will continue here

Im just tired of rewarding illegal behavior just because they are good athletes


fire away

make excuses for them

Im sure OJ is ok too

he is in mike is in
let em all in

I have not bashed u once on here..I understand what ur saying..I am just saying until the HOF makes it a bylaw that players off field problems will be taken into consideration I dont think it should be that big of a deal

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by pirate4state
:) Guess we are a bunch of hippies for thinking with an open mind. ;)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/KRSimmons/bpic202.jpg


DISCLAIMER: I am neither agreeing or disagreeing with this thread. This pic is for Rita, who will understand and get a kick out of it!!!

I think she will anyway!! :)

[coach]

i dont see anyone cryin over the fact that oj is in the hof and hes a damned murderer.......the hof is what you do on the football field not in his personal life.....i guareentee you he isnt the only one in the hof that had a problem wit drugs...give him credit he has really cleaned up..congrats "Playmaker"

[BuffyMars]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/KRSimmons/bpic202.jpg


DISCLAIMER: I am neither agreeing or disagreeing with this thread. This pic is for Rita, who will understand and get a kick out of it!!!

I think she will anyway!! :)

I love it! It wouldn't be the 1st time I have been called one! =) I need to save that pic for my avatar, haha!!

[burnet44]

Irvin hasnt iM SURE HE HAS SINCE THEN

OK NATE NEWTON GETS IN NEXT?

(Nov. 27, 2005)

Ex-Cowboy Michael Irvin Arrested
Former Star Receiver Charged With Possession



(AP) Former Dallas Cowboys receiver Michael Irvin was charged with misdemeanor possession of drug paraphernalia after police searched his vehicle during a traffic stop, Plano police said Sunday.

Irvin, a semifinalist for the Pro Football Hall of Fame, was arrested on an outstanding warrant for speeding in Irving after being pulled over Friday afternoon for speeding in Plano, the Plano Police Department said. Police spokesman Mike Johnson said he didn't know what kind of paraphernalia was found.

Irvin paid a fine on the speeding ticket and posted bond on the drug paraphernalia possession charge. He was released about an hour after he was pulled over.

Irvin, a member of three Super Bowl championship teams with the Cowboys, retired in July 2000 and works as a studio analyst for ESPN.

An ESPN spokesman had no immediate comment.

In 1996, Irvin pleaded no contest to felony cocaine possession in exchange for four years of deferred probation, a $10,000 fine and dismissal of misdemeanor marijuana possession charges.

THAT NIGHT HE WAS IN WACO
WATCHING SLC PLAY ABILENE
I SAW HIM ON THE SIDE LINE

[BuffyMars]

<-------Bangs head on desk....HARD...REPEATEDLY......CONCUSSION PLEASE! :foul:

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by BuffyMars
<-------Bangs head on desk....HARD...REPEATEDLY......CONCUSSION PLEASE! :foul:

LOL

[burnet44]

please use a pillow

[Txbroadcaster]

Irvin's response


Dont you judge me Earl!!

[BuffyMars]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Irvin's response


Dont you judge me Earl!!

HAHAHAHA!!!! :clap:

But I am afraid that perhaps you and I will be the only ones to know that quote. :thinking:

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by BuffyMars
HAHAHAHA!!!! :clap:

But I am afraid that perhaps you and I will be the only ones to know that quote. :thinking:

Still a classic line :)

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Why does any of this matter? He played the game of football and was great at it, that is what he was being recognized for. We have had Presidents who have lied and stolen. We have elected officials in Congress who have bankrupted companies, committed fraud, and been caught with drugs, but are the people who run our country. People make mistakes and humans are prone to error, and last time I checked, none of you are perfect and have room to act like he committed murder.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
People make mistakes and humans are prone to error, and last time I checked, none of you are perfect and have room to act like he committed murder.

excuse me..I am perfect..and if I am not..I lie and say I was anyway

[BuffyMars]

We should do a poll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :dispntd: :crazy1: :crazy: :tongue:

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
excuse me..I am perfect..and if I am not..I lie and say I was anyway

Jesus has been reborn, ladies and gentlemen. :rolleyes:

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Jesus has been reborn, ladies and gentlemen. :rolleyes:

not reborn..I never went anywhere....my son :eek: :p :devil:

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by themsu97
[B]wow... the screaming liberals are awake now...

Not a liberal. Typical response.



why screen murderers... dwi's... heck make it all legal and we can have mass chaos...

Well, first the type of drug crimes we are talking about here are a far cry from murder. Typical strawman argument.


one compromise leads to others and then there are no laws...

Completely non-sensical and unsubstantiated.



drugs are illegal, Irvin got caught...

duh?


and honestly, not a great receiver anyway

This may be the dumbest thing you've said so far. So do all the 39 or so HOF voters not have a clue? Unbelievable.


I would be willing to bet if it were like baseball, he would never get in...

the baseball HOF has much worse characters than Irvin. Checkit out!



a certain # have to get in every year and you do not have to recieve a certain amount of votes...

Only 3 are required each year. You're really reaching on this one.



I bet ya'll think that Palmeiro, Canseco and McGuire should get in to the baseball hof

Nope sure don't. They used performance enhancing drugs. They cheated the game of baseball. Different circumstances.

See, that's what happens when you "conservatives" try to pidgeon hole everyone that disagrees with you as "liberals".




Burnet44, I really want you to answer the question I posed:

But do you ever forgive anyone? By all accounts, Irvin has gotten his life straightened out. He has to live with the scarlet letter for the rest of his life? I bet you wouldn't hold everyone to that standard?

What if someone in your church that you respected was discovered to be a drug user, adulterer, etc. What if they come before the church and repent. Would you forgive them?

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Macarthur
Not a liberal. Typical response.




Well, first the type of drug crimes we are talking about here are a far cry from murder. Typical strawman argument.



Completely non-sensical and unsubstantiated.




duh?



This may be the dumbest thing you've said so far. So do all the 39 or so HOF voters not have a clue? Unbelievable.



the baseball HOF has much worse characters than Irvin. Checkit out!




Only 3 are required each year. You're really reaching on this one.




Nope sure don't. They used performance enhancing drugs. They cheated the game of baseball. Different circumstances.

See, that's what happens when you "conservatives" try to pidgeon hole everyone that disagrees with you as "liberals".




Burnet44, I really want you to answer the question I posed:

But do you ever forgive anyone? By all accounts, Irvin has gotten his life straightened out. He has to live with the scarlet letter for the rest of his life? I bet you wouldn't hold everyone to that standard?

What if someone in your church that you respected was discovered to be a drug user, adulterer, etc. What if they come before the church and repent. Would you forgive them?


This post made me smile. :thumbsup:

[themsu97]

don't try to pidgeon hole anyway...but a leopard usually cannot change it's spots... or at least I am told...
Irvin was not that great of a receiver... would he have been good anywhere else, imo,nope... what did he do once Novacek retired...not a lot...

and only the NFL has a quota for how many people get in each year... and it is not by a percentage of voters like MLB... so, yoour arguement there is the one that is idiotic... but what do I expect from the perfect smart guy like you...
drug crimes are usually murder, stats and facts, but that would never get in your way would it...
noone said that Ty Cobb and Gaylord Perry deserved to be in... just was talking about how one was elected... again that whole fact thing again huh?
people disagree with me all the time, it is part of the job and knowing some facts and not caring about others...
people are okay in their opinions, as long as they can say something rational to support it... Irvin still repeatedly gets in trouble with the law... and in my book, does not deserve the hof... I am a huge Palmeiro fan, loved the guy from back in the Thunder and Lightning days at Mississippi State, but he cheated, and it may have been that one time but you know what, he still broke the law and does not deserve to get in...

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by themsu97
don't try to pidgeon hole anyway...but a leopard usually cannot change it's spots... or at least I am told...
Irvin was not that great of a receiver... would he have been good anywhere else, imo,nope... what did he do once Novacek retired...not a lot...

and only the NFL has a quota for how many people get in each year... and it is not by a percentage of voters like MLB... so, yoour arguement there is the one that is idiotic... but what do I expect from the perfect smart guy like you...
drug crimes are usually murder, stats and facts, but that would never get in your way would it...
noone said that Ty Cobb and Gaylord Perry deserved to be in... just was talking about how one was elected... again that whole fact thing again huh?
people disagree with me all the time, it is part of the job and knowing some facts and not caring about others...
people are okay in their opinions, as long as they can say something rational to support it... Irvin still repeatedly gets in trouble with the law... and in my book, does not deserve the hof... I am a huge Palmeiro fan, loved the guy from back in the Thunder and Lightning days at Mississippi State, but he cheated, and it may have been that one time but you know what, he still broke the law and does not deserve to get in...

Irvin played 4 seasons without Novacek 96-99

In those four seasons he played a full season in two of them...in those two seasons

1997 Dal 75 1,180 15.7 9
1998 Dal 74 1,057 14.3 1

Other two season did not play full season..BUT in 96 still
1996 Dal 64 962 15.0 2

in 99 when he was hurt was off to maybe best start of his career..ALL without Novacek..or a quality #2 WR

and sorry but the whole without certain player does not hold alot of water

Where would Montana been without Rice? Aikman without Irvin? Emmit Smith without both

Like him or not, Irvin was a top WR while in the game

[themsu97]

which are average numbers... Rice did far better... Irvin,imo, was not one of the top receivers in the game... good receiver, yes, hof receiver, no... he was part of a great team... whoopty do... Troy Brown was part of a great team but is not hof... thanks for the proof...

[burnet44]

Burnet44, I really want you to answer the question I posed:

But do you ever forgive anyone? By all accounts, Irvin has gotten his life straightened out. He has to live with the scarlet letter for the rest of his life? I bet you wouldn't hold everyone to that standard?

What if someone in your church that you respected was discovered to be a drug user, adulterer, etc. What if they come before the church and repent. Would you forgive them?

I forgive each period of everyday
all teachers do
they dont have to come before the church for forgiveness
and me forgiving them is no big deal since im not the JUDGE
I forgive Irvin-he can do as he wants-I really dont care

all I said was I would not let him into the HOF
we forgave him didnt we?
we still let him play?
if that aint forgiveness?
he works a high profile well paying job at ESPN
Yeah I think the guy has been forgiven a lot

WAL-Mart wouldnt hire him
but I think the League has forgiven him
(just cuz he could play)

Now answer mine?

WHY IN THE WORLD DO WE DRUG TEST?
YOU CAN DO DRUGS AND GET INTO THE HALL
SO WHY DOES IT MATTER THAT WE TEST

all we are gonna do is test em, forgive em, (10X), let em play

we are wasting money on drug testing
the police are too

just forgive em and let em play

simple easy system

saves money, time and newspaper space
Id quit testing all together

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by themsu97
which are average numbers... Rice did far better... Irvin,imo, was not one of the top receivers in the game... good receiver, yes, hof receiver, no... he was part of a great team... whoopty do... Troy Brown was part of a great team but is not hof... thanks for the proof...


No one has compared him to Rice..Jerry Rice is best WR of all time..no question.

But to compare Irvin to someone like Troy Brown makes no sense. Brown has had ONE 1,000 yard season.

You call those stats "average"..They were top ten in the league. Not sure how that is "average"

We have not even talked about his postseason stats which are second ONLY to Jerry Rice.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by themsu97
[B]don't try to pidgeon hole anyway...but a leopard usually cannot change it's spots... or at least I am told...

Yes you did.


Irvin was not that great of a receiver... would he have been good anywhere else, imo,nope... what did he do once Novacek retired...not a lot...

I think the previous post pretty much showed you on this one.



and only the NFL has a quota for how many people get in each year... and it is not by a percentage of voters like MLB... so, yoour arguement there is the one that is idiotic... but what do I expect from the perfect smart guy like you...

Yeah, I must be an idiot because I don't have a clue what you are trying to say here.

I simply made the comment that the NFL must induct 3 per year. I didn't say that was good or bad; just making a comment.


drug crimes are usually murder, stats and facts, but that would never get in your way would it...

Can you show me some facts/stats. Who did Irvin kill?


noone said that Ty Cobb and Gaylord Perry deserved to be in... just was talking about how one was elected... again that whole fact thing again huh?

Again, you are not making a bit of sense. I think you're on drugs.

Oh and by the way, the NFL HOF does require an 80% vote so who has their facts straight?



people disagree with me all the time, it is part of the job and knowing some facts and not caring about others...

The fact that people disagree with you all the time should tell you something, shouldn't it?


people are okay in their opinions, as long as they can say something rational to support it...

Couldn't have said it better myself.


Irvin still repeatedly gets in trouble with the law...

repeatedly? Don't give me that 2005 pipe in the car thing.



and in my book, does not deserve the hof...

Well, that's your opionion, but people that know football virtually all disagree with you.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by burnet44
I forgive each period of everyday
all teachers do
they dont have to come before the church for forgiveness
and me forgiving them is no big deal since im not the JUDGE
I forgive Irvin-he can do as he wants-I really dont care

You're still avoiding that question.


all I said was I would not let him into the HOF
we forgave him didnt we?
we still let him play?
if that aint forgiveness?
he works a high profile well paying job at ESPN
Yeah I think the guy has been forgiven a lot

WAL-Mart wouldnt hire him
but I think the League has forgiven him
(just cuz he could play)

Fair enough.



Now answer mine?

WHY IN THE WORLD DO WE DRUG TEST?
YOU CAN DO DRUGS AND GET INTO THE HALL
SO WHY DOES IT MATTER THAT WE TEST

all we are gonna do is test em, forgive em, (10X), let em play

I agree that the drug testing is a joke. They should either do random or nothing at all. If they fail, they should not play.


we are wasting money on drug testing
the police are too

just forgive em and let em play

I never said that.

[themsu97]

not really... Irvin was average, plain and simple... but to you Boys fans you can have him in the hof... to mention Stabauch, Pearson and Irvin together is just sacrilidge...
people argue with me all the time because that is just what I teach people to do... how to justify an arguement...not my fault you are a little slow... you have to teach that disagreement is okay and it is just that, disagreement, that leads to change and progress... having a hard time adjusting to that concept... Irvin is average, sorry,
answer this... if you go to an AA meeting and admit that you are an alcoholic, you are always one... so what does that make Irvin?...
as for post season records, to achieve those you have to be part of a great team, not a great individual... I mean deion branch is pretty impressive in the post season, but does that make him hof material... by most of your arguements I guess so...

[Txbroadcaster]

If someone wants to argue Irvin should not be in because of his drug problem, then I understand because a valid point can be made why he should be kept out...BUT

If someone is trying to say Irvin was not that good, then sorry your hatred for him or the Cowboys is blinding you.

Regular season
7 of 12 years with 1000 yards..another year 60 yards from 1000

Top 10 in either Yards, Receptions, and TDs at least 7 of his 12 years.

Finished in top 10 career stats

Post season
second most receptions and yards in NFL history

PER GAME in the play-offs

Jerry Rice AVERAGED 5 receptions for 88 yards and just under one TD per play-off game

Irvin averaged 5 receptions for 82 yards and just under one TD a game in the play-offs

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by themsu97
not really... Irvin was average, plain and simple... but to you Boys fans you can have him in the hof... to mention Stabauch, Pearson and Irvin together is just sacrilidge...
people argue with me all the time because that is just what I teach people to do... how to justify an arguement...not my fault you are a little slow... you have to teach that disagreement is okay and it is just that, disagreement, that leads to change and progress... having a hard time adjusting to that concept... Irvin is average, sorry,
answer this... if you go to an AA meeting and admit that you are an alcoholic, you are always one... so what does that make Irvin?...
as for post season records, to achieve those you have to be part of a great team, not a great individual... I mean deion branch is pretty impressive in the post season, but does that make him hof material... by most of your arguements I guess so...

I love a debate..and you keep spouting how to justify an argument..but you have yet to do so. You claim Irvin is average..yet show NO proof to back it up that on the field he was merely average

[Txbroadcaster]

another fun little fact

an AVERAGE game for Both guys

Taking all their stats and dividing it by games played

Rice..5 receptions 75 yards .06 TD an average game thru his career


Irvin 4.72 receptions 74 yards .05 TD per game

So in an average game..their stats are not so far apart..for the legend Rice..and the "average" player u say Irvin was

[NDFootball]

Originally posted by themsu97
not really... Irvin was average, plain and simple... but to you Boys fans you can have him in the hof... to mention Stabauch, Pearson and Irvin together is just sacrilidge...
people argue with me all the time because that is just what I teach people to do... how to justify an arguement...not my fault you are a little slow... you have to teach that disagreement is okay and it is just that, disagreement, that leads to change and progress... having a hard time adjusting to that concept... Irvin is average, sorry,
answer this... if you go to an AA meeting and admit that you are an alcoholic, you are always one... so what does that make Irvin?...
as for post season records, to achieve those you have to be part of a great team, not a great individual... I mean deion branch is pretty impressive in the post season, but does that make him hof material... by most of your arguements I guess so...


you're making yourself look stupid...stop while you're behind...

Attaway to try and bring politics into the thread with the liberal comment...ignorant remarks like that don't get you much :rolleyes: and you're calling someone else slow?

We aren't arguing whether Irvin did cocaine or not...we've been arguing whether he should be in the Hall of Fame. What does the whole AA thing have to do with any of this thread??why are you in this thread again? Nice try though junior.

So once you can post something that makes sense and doesn't bash someone in almost all your posts, come back and we might take you a little more seriously :thumbsup:

[BuffyMars]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
another fun little fact

an AVERAGE game for Both guys

Taking all their stats and dividing it by games played

Rice..5 receptions 75 yards .06 TD an average game thru his career


Irvin 4.72 receptions 74 yards .05 TD per game

So in an average game..their stats are not so far apart..for the legend Rice..and the "average" player u say Irvin was

You have way too many numbers in your head my friend....its scary....NO WONDER YOU WERE BAD AT MATH! Too many dang stats in your head! No room for anything else!:tongue:

[burnet44]

why test for drugs in the NFL?

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by burnet44
why test for drugs in the NFL?

So if a person tests positive for a drug one time then that means they never can be a HOF?

Cause Brett Farve admitted he was a user..so I guess he is out

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
So if a person tests positive for a drug one time then that means they never can be a HOF?

Cause Brett Farve admitted he was a user..so I guess he is out

Brett Farva - LMAO :D

Seriously? Why are y'all still talking about this??? :rolleyes: He is IN and no amount of whatever you are doing is gonna change that.

As long as y'all don't call each other names this thread will remain open. I haven't bothered to read most of the posts so IF someone has been called a name before THIS post, report it b/c I'm not gonna go back and read all of this. :rolleyes:


IRVIN = HOF'er party on!!!

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/KRSimmons/bpic202.jpg


DISCLAIMER: I am neither agreeing or disagreeing with this thread. This pic is for Rita, who will understand and get a kick out of it!!!

I think she will anyway!! :)

:clap: :clap: ROFL!