Which NBA player is the G.O.A.T

[LeonJr]

GOAT=Greatest of all time
Leon says "The King all the way baby!"

[Emerson1]

Shaq. Without him the lakers and heat don't have their latest championships

[NDFootball]

Air Jordan comin at ya

[LeonJr]

Leon says "Air Jordan was a BA but only when he had Scotty Pippen"

[NDFootball]

Air Jordan will always be the greatest :cool:

LeBron ain't got nothin on MJ ;)

[luvhoops34]

Clyde "the glide" Drexler you foo.

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by Emerson1
Shaq. Without him the lakers and heat don't have their latest championships
you can say that about almost any championship team...the Heat dont win the title without Wade....

[NDFootball]

Pshhhh

you wish Michael would take anyone to school and do that really cool stretchy arm thing from Space Jam and dunk it

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
you can say that about almost any championship team...the Heat dont win the title without Wade....
You put a shaq in his prime on any team and they instantly become one of the best in the league.

I have never seen what the big deal with MJ was anyways.

[DU_stud04]

no bill russell fans????

[tigerpride_08]

gotta go with MJ no doubt...:clap:

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by Emerson1
You put a shaq in his prime on any team and they instantly become one of the best in the league.

I have never seen what the big deal with MJ was anyways.

yeah...those Orlando Magic teams he was on were AWESOME....

[Bulldog_12]

Pistol Pete?

[bandera7]

MJ all the way. He won by himself, most of the players that he had on his team were only seen as talented because MJ could make things happen for them too. Nobody can touch him.

[DU_stud04]

Hakeem Olajuwon????

[LeonJr]

Originally posted by Bulldog_12
Pistol Pete?

Leon wanted to Pistol Pete but only had 10 spots. Leon is a big Pistol Pete fan!

[maestro]

ok....i'll age myself here...

abdul-jabbar....

remember....the league changed rules because he and wilt....

[Bull's-eye]

Originally posted by DU_stud04
Hakeem Olajuwon????

Olajuwon carried the Rockets to back-to-back championships. He dominated 1995 MVP David Robinson in the playoffs and then made a young Shaq looked very bad in the '95 finals. One of the worst mistakes made by the Spurs was to give Robinson his MVP award in front of Olujuwon.

[DU_stud04]

Originally posted by Bull's-eye
Olajuwon carried the Rockets to back-to-back championships. He dominated 1995 MVP David Robinson in the playoffs and then made a young Shaq looked very bad in the '95 finals. One of the worst mistakes made by the Spurs was to give Robinson his MVP award in front of Olujuwon. :( and he isnt on the list.

[LeonJr]

I like him but he was a one hit wonder for the rockets!

[Bull's-eye]

Originally posted by LeonJr
I like him but he was a one hit wonder for the rockets!

Huh?? Olujuwon was a hit from day one and continued for many years. He was named one of the 50 greatest players. His 1995 playoffs, was one of the greatest ever. The 6th seeded Rockets knocked off the #3, #2 and 1st seeds to win the conference championship. At the time, they had the most road wins of any playoffs. He would totally dominate today's big men! He is easily one of the top ten best players.

[DU_stud04]

Originally posted by LeonJr
I like him but he was a one hit wonder for the rockets! wow.:doh: :doh: :doh:

he would dominate over ever big guy today, no one his size has ever had the quick feet movements. truly an awesome player head above others.

[LeonJr]

Leon loved the "Nigerian Dream Shake" but if you had a chance to draft any player in the history of the NBA, your telling me that Olujuwon would be your first pick! Maybe the best center but not G.O.A.T.!

[Matthew328]

its Jordan...no question....the man willed teams to win....he won six titles with the Bulls and other than Pippen and Rodman for the last three who else did they have??

[LeonJr]

Leon won't argue Jordan. He's 2nd behind the King to me!

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by Bull's-eye
Olajuwon carried the Rockets to back-to-back championships. yes this is true but i think it helped that this one guy decided to play baseball

[LeonJr]

Gooooood Call!

[Bull's-eye]

Originally posted by LeonJr
Leon loved the "Nigerian Dream Shake" but if you had a chance to draft any player in the history of the NBA, your telling me that Olujuwon would be your first pick! Maybe the best center but not G.O.A.T.!

A big man can usually dominate a game in many different areas. Most NBA coaches would start with a big man, so Olujuwon would get strong considerment. I watched Majic and Bird dominate with their teams where Jordan led teams struggled. In jordan's defense, those guys were surrounded by some great players.

A little unknown side note. The Rockets almost ended up with Jordan, Olajuwon and Drexler. Portland and Houston almost completed a trade that would of sent Ralph Sampson to the Trailblazers in exchange for Drexler and their top draft pick (#2 overall). Houston chose Olajuwon #1 and would of selected Jordan with the 2nd pick. Portland decide to keep Drexler and draft Sam Bowie ahead of Jordan.
:thinking:

[Bull's-eye]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
yes this is true but i think it helped that this one guy decided to play baseball

True, Jordan was not there during the first Rocket's championship, but the Jordan led Bulls were knocked out of the playoffs in the 1995 season. They lost to the Magic, the team Houston swept in the finals.

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by Bull's-eye
True , Jordan was not there during the first Rocket's championship, but the Jordan led Bulls were knocked out of the playoffs in the 1995 season. he didnt have a full season under his belt he came in half way through and didnt quite get in full shape. But not taking away from the Rockets that team would of pushed if not beat some of the Bulls championship teams

[LeonJr]

Ha sanybody heard of Earl "The Goat'' Managoat? Jordan,Johnson,Chamberlain,etc, all say this guy would have been the best if he would not have hit the pipe!

[Bull's-eye]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
he didnt have a full season under his belt he came in half way through and didnt quite get in full shape. But not taking away from the Rockets that team would of pushed if not beat some of the Bulls championship teams

Jordan averaged 31.5 points in the Orlando series. Jordan had a 55 point playoff game against the Knicks, so I don't him being rusty or out of shape. The previous season, the Jordan-less Bulls were 55-27. This shows most great players can't do it by themselves. Some people say that during the Bull's championship run, the league lacked quality teams. In the 80's, Boston and LA prevented each other from winning a string of championships.

[District303aPastPlayer]

Originally posted by DU_stud04
no bill russell fans????

11 in 13... Enough said.

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by Bull's-eye
. Some people say that during the Bull's championship run, the league lacked quality teams. In the 80's, Boston and LA prevented each other from winning a string of championships. that may be true but you can't take away from the bulls they can only beat who they played

[Gobbla2001]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
they can only beat who they played

that's good stuff...

you get 1000 points...

[Bull's-eye]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
that may be true but you can't take away from the bulls they can only beat who they played

:clap: :clap: The Rockets could only beat who they played, so you can't take away from their championships because Jordan was playing baseball.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by LeonJr
GOAT=Greatest of all time
Leon says "The King all the way baby!"
.
Why do you have Lebron there? He been in the league for what two years?:confused: :eek: :confused:

[Bull's-eye]

Oscar Robertson, Moses Malone, Karl Malone, David Robinson, Tim Duncan, Walt Frazier, George Gervin, Elvin Hayes are some more candidates.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Bull's-eye
Oscar Robertson, Moses Malone, Karl Malone, David Robinson, Tim Duncan, Walt Frazier, George Gervin, Elvin Hayes are some more candidates.
.
Oviously, Leonjr has no respect for David Robinson(a HOF guy who has contributed more of his fortune than any other NBA guy imho to youth development).

[Bull's-eye]

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
Why do you have Lebron there? He been in the league for what two years?:confused: :eek: :confused:

He's not there yet and hasn't done it long enough, some would argue he not even the best current player.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Bull's-eye
He's not there yet and hasn't done it long enough, some would argue he not even the best current player.
.
lol
My question was rhetorical...

[GreenGobbla]

jordan hands down..no one can compete with mj

[Bull's-eye]

Where's Kobe? Nowitzki? Nash? Durant???? :D

[bulldogman06]

Duncan has to be somewhere on this list. He may not be number 1 (MJ easily by the way), but he has to be top 10. what he has done has been amazing, the little stuff, only player in his first however many seasons to make 1st team defense or some crazy stat like that. plus without him the spurs are still, well, the spurs of the early 90s

[Bearkat]

Jordan

[big daddy russ]

Most versatile, skilled player of all time is probably Oscar Robertson. At almost 6'6" and running the point, he could handle the ball every bit as well as "Tiny" Archibald or Bob Cousy, saw passing lanes that noone this side of Pistol Pete and Jason Kidd have seen since, was stronger than most of the pivots in his day, and could get to the rim with the best of them.

Oh, and he was taller than the average SF of the early- to mid-60's. Hell, the great Laker tandem of Elgin Baylor (a SF) and Jerry West (SG) was 6'5" and 6'2," respectively.

The only player to come along since that you could even remotely compare to the Big O was Magic Johnson. Those are the only two HOF-caliber "big" PG's in history, and Robertson could do anything he wanted with a basketball.

Tex Winter said that Kobe's already a more skilled, polished player than Jordan ever was. The only physical attribute that Jordan had on Kobe was strength on the low blocks and getting to the hoop. Once Kobe nails the ability to get his teammates up for a game, we'll be mentioning him in the same breath as Jordan. BTW, has a much less-talented cast than Jordan EVER did. Odom's good and Bynum will be good, but he's making Smush Parker look like the guy he used to be on the playgrounds instead of the NBA scrub he would be on most teams.

The guy who changed the game more than anyone... without a doubt Wilt the Stilt. No, it's not Jordan, believe it or not. Jordan never had the rules changed exclusively for him. He was the most skilled big man ever. The first seven-footer to ever play the game at a high level was also quite possibly the most skilled big man ever (though the Admiral, Lew, and Moses Malone would argue that). Would've dominated anyone in any era, Shaq, Kareem, and Moses included. Well, anyone except the one man who stood in his way during his own time.

Jordan was the best mix. One of the top ten or 20 most skilled players of all time who was also one of the only wings in the history of the game (Larry Bird was the only other, though he did play some PF when McHale would go out) who could will his team to championships. His flash eventually made him the media darling whenever media saturation of the NBA started coming into full maturity in the late-80's and early-90's, and that hypercoverage (plus the best players of his time calling him the "greatest") led to the point where we're at today.

He is, by default because of a huge lack of knowledge, considered the greatest ever. The media didn't really start paying attention to the NBA until the mid-80's, in the height of the Bird/Magic wars. They knew who guys like Wilt, the Big O, and George Mikan were. They just didn't actually know them.

Ever heard Wilt, Oscar Robertson, or Red Auerbach say that Jordan's the greatest ever? You won't. They never bought into it.

The greatest player ever is the one the media's forgotten. Played under Auerbach, gave Bob Cousy his first real inside threat, and made John Havlicek and Sam and KC Jones some of the best outside scorers of their day. Nobody seems to appreciate how dogged this guy was and how far he would go to win. If the ability to "will" your team to a win is the ultimate deciding factor of how "great" a player is, then this guy has a corner on the market. If the ability to shut down not only the other's team's best player, but their entire offense, is the mark of the greatest ever, then nobody (not Dikembe, not Ben Wallace, not MJ, not Wilt, nobody) could do it like him. If making those around you better is the mark, nobody can touch him.

A year after retiring, he was watching the NBA Finals from the sidelines. His former team retained All-Stars Don Nelson, John Havlicek, and JoJo White after his retirement, but they weren't there that day. They went from world champions to 34-48, good for second-to-last in the Eastern Conference over the period of a year. Instead, he was watching the Lakers and Knicks duke it out.

This was Walt Frazier's series. The one where he became a hero... coming out onto the court even though he was lame. And when Bill Russell saw this, he said the competitor in him came out. He wasn't looking at it as a feel-good story, he was looking at it as if he were a Laker playing in that game. He said it pissed him off, and that he would've gone out of his way to "beat up" up the Knicks' best player and "send him back out of the game." That kind of stuff doesn't happen in Russell's world.

Sure, he only averaged about 17 points a game in an era when the average score was somewhere in the 120-130 range, but offense isn't everything. He's still regarded as a great passer, he INVENTED help defense, and single-handedly held entire teams in this score-happy era to around 90 points per game. Imagine if the Suns (who play absolutely zero defense) started holding other teams to 60 points a game, but they were still scoring 100-110.

That's what Bill Russell did. He dominated a game more than anyone at any time, controlled the outcome more than Jordan could've ever hoped to, and turned nobodys into All-Stars.

In my little head, the "greatest" means the player who had the most impact of the outcome of every game in which he played. By that mark, Bruce Bowen's a greater player than Ron Mercer (who used to score 20 a game) ever was. Russell's not the most skilled, most versatile, or most flashy, but nobody could beat him. In ten years of trying, Wilt, probably the best all-around player to ever meet the hardwood this side of Kobe, only did it once. The only other time it happened was in '58, at the hands of the guy who, until Karl Malone and Tim Duncan emerged, was considered the best PF to ever play the game.

Eleven championships in 13 years. No other team has ever done that, and no other team leader can lay claim to that kind of track record.

Sorry MJ. I know the media loves you. Hell, I loved watching you. But you're not the greatest.



Originally posted by bandera7
MJ all the way. He won by himself, most of the players that he had on his team were only seen as talented because MJ could make things happen for them too. Nobody can touch him.
Scottie may be the most underrated player to ever play the game. A la Lou Gehrig when he first retired.*

The Bulls made it two deep the year MJ wasn't there and then took the Eastern Conference reps seven games before bowing out. The Bulls weren't a one-horse team when MJ played for them.


*Gehrig played in Babe Ruth's shadow the first eight years of his career, then led the Yanks for a couple of years by himself before settling into Joe Dimaggio's shadow. Dimaggio came into the league in '36, and by the time Gehrig retired in '39 was a full-blown superstar. Gehrig was thought of by many baseball fans as a second-tier star in the Pippen mold when he first retired, but is now almost universally considered the greatest first baseman to ever play the game.

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by big daddy russ






Scottie may be the most underrated player to ever play the game. A la Lou Gehrig when he first retired.*

. Some people argue that Scottie is the most overrated player of all time. Being named one of the NBAs 50 greatest players its hard to say hes underrated

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
Some people argue that Scottie is the most overrated player of all time...
That's what I'm talking about. He is one of the 50 greatest, whether they want to acknowledge it or not. He single-handedly took the starting lineup of himself, BJ Armstrong, Toni Kukoc, Horace Grant, and Bill Wennington to the second-best record in the East. Don't try to minimize his accomplishments. He was EASILY one of the 50 greatest of all time.

If people call him the 50th-best of all time, he's underrated, but maybe underappreciated is the better word. Nobody nowadays seems to remember how great he was and everyone chalks his success up to Jordan.

Jordan had nothing to do with it. He was a bad man that Tex Winter molded into a great player.

[pirate4state]

:eek: dang, not much of a contest