UT sues Aggie Outfitters

[neck_06]

if this isn't being a sore loser, then i don't know what is.

UT sues over sawed-off horns
Vendor claims logo parody protected under First Amendment
By: Rick Rojas

"Saw 'em off," a logo often seen printed on T-shirts and other apparel, is at the center of a legal dispute between the University of Texas and a College Station merchant.

The UT Board of Regents filed a formal legal complaint against College Station-based Aggieland Outfitters and its parent company, Kalcorp Enterprises, for manipulating the UT longhorn silhouette on the products.

"Defendants' unauthorized use of UT Marks complained herein is likely to cause confusion, to cause mistake, or to deceive customers," wrote Louis T. Pirkey, an attorney representing the Board of Regents, in the complaint.

Merchandise with the logo has been sold since 1997, and there have not been any complaints, until now, said Fadi Kalaouze, owner of Aggieland Outfitters and Kalcorp.

Kalaouze attempted to trademark the logo, but was denied by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office.

"The similarities among the marks and the goods are so great to create a likelihood of confusion," according to the final action of the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office.

Kalaouze said he holds "seven copyrights with the longhorn at different angles."

The suit was filed Dec. 4, just days after Texas A&M had beaten UT in football on Nov. 24.

". . . UT's complaint is a legally baseless display of poor sportsmanship," according to Kalcorp's motion to dismiss.

Both the office of the Board of Regents and the public affairs office at UT were contacted, but neither was available for comment.

Kalaouze, Class of 1991, is an immigrant from Lebanon who paid his way through A&M by selling T-shirts in the main hallway of the MSC. Since then, his business has grown into Aggieland Outfitters, which he started in 2000 with his wife Hege, Class of 1990.

The saw 'em off products make up the majority of his sales, and this business is his family's source of income. If Aggieland Outfitters were forced to halt the sale of these products, it may push them out of business, he said.

"This is a big chunk of what we do; this is our identity," Kalaouze said.

"All we have worked for in the past 15 years would go down the drain."

In the lawsuit, UT says Kalaouze's product takes advantage of the University's long-standing reputation:

"Defendants' unauthorized use of the UT marks?enables them to trade on and receive the benefit of goodwill built up at great labor and expense over many years by UT."

However Kalaouze said, "in all this time, we've never had a Longhorn come in requesting that design."

Kalaouze said this is not just a fight for his livelihood - it's a fight to save a valued Aggie tradition.

"Part of who we are as Aggies is sawing the horns off the longhorns, and we must keep doing that," he said.

Travis Nap designed the sawed off Longhorn logo more than 10 years ago and was one of the partners in filing the copyright application.

"That saying (saw 'em off) has been part of our tradition for a very long time," Nap said. "The fight song is the origin of that logo."

Nap said this lawsuit is a baseless and ridiculous impulse that will be good for A&M in the end.

"This is a part of cherished rivalry between two great schools," he said. "The problem is UT has too many lawyers trying to justify their jobs."

Kalaouze said this unjustified lawsuit is comparable to the biblical fight of David and Goliath, with his small business being pitted against the richest university in the state.

However, he said he had spoken with several lawyers before deciding to pursue this costly legal fight, and all told him the saw 'em off logo is a parody - which is protected under the First Amendment of the Constitution, he said.

"If we defend it right, we are going to win," Kalaouze said.

[Adidas410s]

The funniest quote from this article...


"Part of who we are as Aggies is sawing the horns off the longhorns, and we must keep doing that," he said.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

I have one of the Saw 'Em Off stickers on the back window of my truck. :D

[JasperDog94]

nm

[Txbroadcaster]

IF and I mean IF The store is using or manipulating a UT trademark, then how is it any different than A&M suing the Seahawks for using the 12th man?

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
IF and I mean IF The store is using or manipulating a UT trademark, then how is it any different than A&M suing the Seahawks for using the 12th man?


The thing is, it's not the UT Trademark anymore, it's a different logo.

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
IF and I mean IF The store is using or manipulating a UT trademark, then how is it any different than A&M suing the Seahawks for using the 12th man?

I guess I just don't "get it"! I think both lawsuits are petty!:rolleyes:

[Phil C]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
IF and I mean IF The store is using or manipulating a UT trademark, then how is it any different than A&M suing the Seahawks for using the 12th man?

:D :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Phil C]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
I have one of the Saw 'Em Off stickers on the back window of my truck. :D

It works sometimes but it sure didn't work last night at the Women's basketball game did it Big?

:)

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
The thing is, it's not the UT Trademark anymore, it's a different logo.

Still, if a logo resembles to the point of looking exactly like a trademarke and money is made from it then they can sue...Now I am not saying they should sue or anything, I was just pointing out how they could

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
I guess I just don't "get it"! I think both lawsuits are petty!:rolleyes:

I am the queen of petty. :D :D

[BTEXDAD]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
IF and I mean IF The store is using or manipulating a UT trademark, then how is it any different than A&M suing the Seahawks for using the 12th man?

agreed also. But as someone else said, both lawsuits are petty (and childish. )

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by BTEXDAD
agreed also. But as someone else said, both lawsuits are petty (and childish. ) well we are talking about UT/A&M and there are lawyers involved so there ya go :devil:

[Bulldog_12]

QUOTE]Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.[/QUOTE]

Freedom of speech and freedom of the press. It is not the exact logo of texas, it is a parody of it. Thus it is covered in the first amendmant. If that is the case, OU can sue them for making t-shirts that have the OU symbol on them (i.e. you cant spell douche-bag without OU). Its been going on for ten years now and we just now are hearing about it? Please, this is rediculous.

Oh, and with the 12th man. It is an exact replica of the phrase that was trademarked by A&M, which makes it illegal.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Bulldog_12
QUOTE]Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Freedom of speech and freedom of the press. It is not the exact logo of texas, it is a parody of it. Thus it is covered in the first amendmant. If that is the case, OU can sue them for making t-shirts that have the OU symbol on them (i.e. you cant spell douche-bag without OU). Its been going on for ten years now and we just now are hearing about it? Please, this is rediculous.

Oh, and with the 12th man. It is an exact replica of the phrase that was trademarked by A&M, which makes it illegal. [/QUOTE]


I agree IF it is not part of the trademark rules...I know SOME schools that use their rival school's logo in anyway on stuff, they actually PAY their rival for the right to use, and also give it the trademark symbol.

[jason]

Originally posted by neck_06


"This is a big chunk of what we do; this is our identity," Kalaouze said.

"All we have worked for in the past 15 years would go down the drain."

maybe a&m should dedicate themselves to something other than ut bashing - everybody (except the aggies in their bubble at college station) knows that UT is the premier university in the state, they (aggies) need to get over it

[injuredinmelee]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
The thing is, it's not the UT Trademark anymore, it's a different logo.

its the same thing.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
The thing is, it's not the UT Trademark anymore, it's a different logo. It's still copyright protected.

[Bulldog_12]

Originally posted by injuredinmelee
its the same thing.

But its not. There are in fact horns on the original bovine head, but none on the parody steer, thus making it different from the longhorn.

I like saying thus. I always feel like it makes me have a better argument if I throw that in.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Still, if a logo resembles to the point of looking exactly like a trademarke and money is made from it then they can sue...Now I am not saying they should sue or anything, I was just pointing out how they could

I understand where you are coming from too, but UT has only trademarked the Longhorn logo. Although they are similiar, they are completely different, with different connotations and feeling being associated with each one of them.

[coach]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
IF and I mean IF The store is using or manipulating a UT trademark, then how is it any different than A&M suing the Seahawks for using the 12th man?
nonot the same thing the aggies came up with the 12th man long before the seahawks and also longhorns are just sore losers this guy is a baby

[JasperDog94]

You guys are confusing trademark and copyright.

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by coach
nonot the same thing the aggies came up with the 12th man long before the seahawks and also longhorns are just sore losers this guy is a baby

great argument!

[coach]

we wouldnt have this problem if that guy was such a baby

[JasperDog94]

It's interesting to see some aggies do a 180 on the issue of suing over copyrighted logos. :nerd:

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
great argument!

HEY!!!! Did I miss the annoucement??:(

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
HEY!!!! Did I miss the annoucement??:(

haha...just got home...i will Post an announcement!

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by jason
maybe a&m should dedicate themselves to something other than ut bashing - everybody (except the aggies in their bubble at college station) knows that UT is the premier university in the state, they (aggies) need to get over it

In your opinion it might be. I personally think they're both great instutions, each having better fields of study. In petroleum engineering, which is what I'm pursuing, has a premiere teaching staff and more nationally acclaimed department. The bashing goes both ways, UT isn't innocent, so don't try to paint it all one sided. I have a Saw 'Em off sticker in the spirit of fun and tradition, but look back and quote one time where I talked down on UT and said it was a bad school. You have almost 3800 posts to choose from.

[bulldogman06]

I could understand if we took the actual pic of the longhorn and used it, but we didnt. we did what we do, and we sawed em off. the thing with seattle used teh exact same thing, I mean, come on, change it to like, the 12th player, or something, like we did, but dont take it exactly the way we had it. and again, they were not using it for parody purposes, as we are. I dont believe its a big deal, Ive seen many shirts criticizing rival schools everywhere

[bulldogman06]

Oh, and also, I only bash UT when we play them and in a joking spirit. I am from Texas, first and foremost, and If UT is playing anybody but A&M, I am pulling for them. Same goes for Tech, hell, same goes for SHSU, SFA, UH, Baylor, every Texas team.

[JHS_c/o_06']

As a UT fan, and someone who is 3 months away from being a UT student. I think the lawsuit is stupid......mainly because the whole sawed off horns thing is stupid. The guy in the article was right, "sawing em' off" is a MAJOR part of the aggie tradition. They have built their school and traditions around hating Texas. And i know it goes both ways sometimes, but alot of times, it comes more from the aggies then anyone else. And if they want to sell stickers. whatever. do it, i dont care. I put that under the same category as the whole t.u. thing, stupid and childish. And if being able to do both of those things somehow makes them feel better about themselves. Then i guess do it...because everyone has the right to feel good about themselves. But just remember this, do you remember back in say....1st grade..or maybe even younger....when you tried to tell someone something and they said " I know you are but what am I" and that was all they would respond with.....that is pretty much what you are doing.....and it.....like this entire ordeal....is stupid.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by JHS_c/o_06'
As a UT fan, and someone who is 3 months away from being a UT student. I think the lawsuit is stupid......mainly because the whole sawed off horns thing is stupid. The guy in the article was right, "sawing em' off" is a MAJOR part of the aggie tradition. They have built their school and traditions around hating Texas. And i know it goes both ways sometimes, but alot of times, it comes more from the aggies then anyone else. And if they want to sell stickers. whatever. do it, i dont care. I put that under the same category as the whole t.u. thing, stupid and childish. And if being able to do both of those things somehow makes them feel better about themselves. Then i guess do it...because everyone has the right to feel good about themselves. But just remember this, do you remember back in say....1st grade..or maybe even younger....when you tried to tell someone something and they said " I know you are but what am I" and that was all they would respond with.....that is pretty much what you are doing.....and it.....like this entire ordeal....is stupid. Nice response. I think you pretty much summed it up.

[Bulldog_12]

Are we still seriously arguing over this? Its a stupid lawsuit. The logos are not the same and cannot be taken as a texass symbol. I dont think any horn fans see it and go, oh look at that texas shirt, I think I will buy that. They are completely different. Its made in parody to the longhorn, therefore, protected.

12th man was an exact recreation of a copyrighted phrase. Nobody trademarked the saw'ed off longhorn, which makes it fair game.

And yeah, I could write almost the exact same thing JHS did about some of you guys when it comes to arguing and pretty much hit the nail on the head.

[Txbroadcaster]

Just to clarify what I said on first page

I dont think their is grounds for a lawsuit, All I said was IF it was ruled or considered that they were using the likeness of a trademark, then how would it be different that the 12th man situation.

Again I think it is a petty lawsuit but I was just throwing out a question.

[loyalleopard]

Teasippers, quit yer' whinning!!!!

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by loyalleopard
Teasippers, quit yer' whinning!!!! :rolleyes:

[BTEXDAD]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Just to clarify what I said on first page

I dont think their is grounds for a lawsuit, All I said was IF it was ruled or considered that they were using the likeness of a trademark, then how would it be different that the 12th man situation.

Again I think it is a petty lawsuit but I was just throwing out a question.

Both were/are stupid lawsuits. Aggies filed one, Longhorns filed one. They are even. Move on.

Let the poor guy make money on his t-shirts, horns. And aggies, what the hell difference does it make if people in Washington state use the twelfth man wording also?

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by loyalleopard
Teasippers, quit yer' whinning!!!!
wahhh the seahawks are using the 12th man. They shouldn't get to because they actually sell out their stadium unlike us aggsys


;)

[KL3]

Originally posted by jason
maybe a&m should dedicate themselves to something other than ut bashing - everybody (except the aggies in their bubble at college station) knows that UT is the premier university in the state, they (aggies) need to get over it

This coming from a Tarleton St. alum. I bet UT appreciates fans like you who love the university so much, but didn't want you at their school.

[mwynn05]

Originally posted by KL3
This coming from a Tarleton St. alum. I bet UT appreciates fans like you who love the university so much, but didn't want you at their school. Well maybe he wanted to play college basketball and didn't get an offer from Texas?

[buff4life]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
I understand where you are coming from too, but UT has only trademarked the Longhorn logo. Although they are similiar, they are completely different, with different connotations and feeling being associated with each one of them.

Except that the second was based off of the first one...

[buff4life]

Originally posted by loyalleopard
Teasippers, quit yer' whinning!!!!

well we'll keep doin that while we are the BEST university in the State...keep it cool in hickville

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by buff4life
Except that the second was based off of the first one...

What about Dr. Thunder or any of the spin-offs of major beverage companies? The same thing applies here.

[Bull Butter]

Originally posted by buff4life
well we'll keep doin that while we are the BEST university in the State...keep it cool in hickville

This coming from someone who resides in that cultural mecca known as Giddings.:eek:

[sinton66]

Originally posted by coach
nonot the same thing the aggies came up with the 12th man long before the seahawks and also longhorns are just sore losers this guy is a baby

They are saying the comparison is the same. The Seahawks 12th man flag does not look like the original A&M 12th man flag just as the sawed-off logo does not look like the original UT logo. Where's the difference. Lawsuit principle is the same.

[eagles_victory]

t

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by sinton66
They are saying the comparison is the same. The Seahawks 12th man flag does not look like the original A&M 12th man flag just as the sawed-off logo does not look like the original UT logo. Where's the difference. Lawsuit principle is the same.

Actually, there is a difference. The 12th Man in Seattle personifies the same thing as the 12th Man at Texas A&M. There is no difference between the two of them. Look at the current Longhorn logo, they have that logo copywritten and trademarked, but that logo and that logo only. This is a different logo with a different meaning and with different feelings associated with it. There is a BIG difference.

[Emerson1]

This isn't about crying about the Aggies using the logo... A dentist office in austin calledLonghorn Dental couldn't use it. Bevo's (a bar) had to change their name. Even UT student organizations have had times when they have to get approval to use the official Longhorn logo. Is it a little stingy? Sure... but hey, they don't make the top of the college sports markets for bringing in the bucks by being lax with their trademarks and copyrights.

I think they should let them keep making the shirts, as long as part of the profit went back to Texas, then every time a longhorn SAW an aggsy wearing one the appropriate response would be, "Cha Ching" thanks for supporting longhorn athletics

[Bulldog_12]

Originally posted by sinton66
They are saying the comparison is the same. The Seahawks 12th man flag does not look like the original A&M 12th man flag just as the sawed-off logo does not look like the original UT logo. Where's the difference. Lawsuit principle is the same.

They also made 12th man jerseys. The only number jersey you can get for A&M is 12. It also says 12th man on it, which is the copyrighted name. It wasnt the flag that was the problem.

[Pmoney]

Originally posted by Emerson1
I think they should let them keep making the shirts, as long as part of the profit went back to Texas, then every time a longhorn SAW an aggsy wearing one the appropriate response would be, "Cha Ching" thanks for supporting longhorn athletics
i like that idea :clap:

[sinton66]

Originally posted by Bulldog_12
They also made 12th man jerseys. The only number jersey you can get for A&M is 12. It also says 12th man on it, which is the copyrighted name. It wasnt the flag that was the problem.

The Seattle jerseys were a different color, no?

[Bulldog_12]

Originally posted by sinton66
The Seattle jerseys were a different color, no?

once again, its not the color, the flag, or anything else. It was the phrase 12th man. It was on the jersey that Seattle made. That made the jersey an infringement on copyrighted material.

[RMAC]

All I know is that as an unbiased party, this will never end. I won't say anything one way or the other since I'm not a copyright law guru, but either way, both universities make millions each year. Sometimes I wonder though, really, what is the point?