Most overrated college football coach?

[JakefootballGOD]

who is the most over rated coach and why?

[coach]

coach fran- what has he done won in the wac or mac or what ever that con was when coachoing for TCU.......and don even get me started what he has done a t a&m.

Larry Cocker- cant control own players and had all the talent in the world

[Cameron Crazy]

Coach Weiss!

[JakefootballGOD]

total agreed on that one....

i mean i like the ags, but he hasnt done a freaking thing, he did beat the horns this year, but other than that i dont count loosing by 1 point everytime this year a good season, and then getting smashed in the bowl game...

Larry...he is done, will never have a prime time job again!

[JakefootballGOD]

coach cubbs...is way overrated too...in he 3 big ball games this year got SMASHED!!!

freaking funny....

[g$$]

FRAN, y'all know what I think of him. 25-23 overall in 4 years, 2 blowout bowl losses, 2 wins vs. Tech/OU/Neb/Texas, & the worst loss in school history 77-0! Case closed, & making more than $2 million per year.

But hey, the facilities look great & only put us $6 million in the hole right now. Great job!

[JakefootballGOD]

lol...dude that freaking awesome

A&M should have never fired R.C. I know alot of people didnt like
him, but he had some of the biggest wins in school history

the game against K state, when sir parker took the slant pass to the house..was awesome, to bad fran can't get people like that at a&m anymore!

[Phil C]

Originally posted by g$$
FRAN, y'all know what I think of him. 25-23 overall in 4 years, 2 blowout bowl losses, 2 wins vs. Tech/OU/Neb/Texas, & the worst loss in school history 77-0! Case closed, & making more than $2 million per year.

But hey, the facilities look great & only put us $6 million in the hole right now. Great job!

SPARE NO EXPENSE!!

:mad:

[JakefootballGOD]

hey but he beat the horns this year...that is all that matters

i can't wait until he goes on the road to maimi, and see what goes down...if the get slummed there, wow

that is a down and out program, and if they beat a&m he will be a gonner in my mind

[g$$]

Originally posted by JakefootballGOD
lol...dude that freaking awesome

A&M should have never fired R.C. I know alot of people didnt like
him, but he had some of the biggest wins in school history

the game against K state, when sir parker took the slant pass to the house..was awesome, to bad fran can't get people like that at a&m anymore!

RC's a good man, & I worked for him & respect him. It was time for a change though to try & get over the hump. It has not happened.

A&M right now has the 32nd ranked recruiting class in the country. That is inexcusable with the resources & facilities & academics at A&M. People, like recruits & hs coaches, just don't like Fran. He is pompous & arrogant. He rubs people wrong. He will never be the answer at A&M. NEVER.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by JakefootballGOD
hey but he beat the horns this year...that is all that matters

i can't wait until he goes on the road to maimi, and see what goes down...if the get slummed there, wow

that is a down and out program, and if they beat a&m he will be a gonner in my mind

Beating Texas 1 time out of 4. Losing to Tech multiple times...and it was UGLY both times in Lubbock. Losing to Baylor....BAYLOR!!! :eek: You are a donk if you think that beating Texas ONE TIME when their QB was barely able to throw a pass is all that matters.

Miami isn't a down and out program by any means. Go take a look at their recruiting classes the past few years...and also at the # of NFL prospects they have put out. The U is anything but down and out.

Oh...and if beating Texas 1 time out of 3 is all that matters...then why would he get fired for losing to Miami??? :confused: Don't contradict yourself in the same post! ;)

[g$$]

Originally posted by JakefootballGOD
hey but he beat the horns this year...that is all that matters

i can't wait until he goes on the road to maimi, and see what goes down...if the get slummed there, wow

that is a down and out program, and if they beat a&m he will be a gonner in my mind

Beating Texas is NOT all that matters. Too many people think that way. What matters is body of work & being a consistently good program, not 1 random win.

If you think that way, A&M will never get over the hump as a program. NEVER. It takes more than that.

Next year's road schedule: Miami (still has athletes & new coach), Mizzou, OU, NEB, & Tech. Say good-bye Fran!

[JakefootballGOD]

correct...

i loved r.c. he was a great guy...trying to get over the top of that hump doesnt look so bad right now...after the last couple of seasons.

for the money that fran gets he is freaking horrible.

the next coach at A&M needs to be a defensive coach, we need the wrecking crew back..that is the problem

fram is to offensive minded....

[bobcat1]

Mack Brown. If he does not have a Vince Young, he can not win a big game. And plus the Applewhite decision sucked big chocolate chunks!

[JakefootballGOD]

i was be a smart a**....i know what you mean

i was talking as in the a&m faculty...my buddy teachs there and the people there love him, but they know if he doesn't do well this year he is done...

i will take one more bad year to get his butt out of CS

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by bobcat1
Mack Brown. If he does not have a Vince Young, he can not win a big game. And plus the Applewhite decision sucked big chocolate chunks!

they beat BlowU this year with VY (a first for Mack)...and they pulled come from behind victories vs Nebraska AND Texas Tech. Let me guess...that was all Colt McCoy??? :D:D:D

[JakefootballGOD]

correct, if texas doesn't have VY, there are nothing but underachievers!!!!


if anyone doubts that, prove me wrong?

[crzyjournalist03]

I'd have to put Tommy Bowden up there. Outside of his last name, what has he really done to put Clemson over the top?

[pirate4state]

http://www.buzzlife.com/forums/images/smilies/adopt.gif

[g$$]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
Beating Texas 1 time out of 3. Losing to Tech multiple times...and it was UGLY last year in Lubbock. Losing to Baylor....BAYLOR!!! :eek: You are a donk if you think that beating Texas ONE TIME when their QB was barely able to throw a pass is all that matters.

Miami isn't a down and out program by any means. Go take a look at their recruiting classes the past few years...and also at the # of NFL prospects they have put out. The U is anything but down and out.

Oh...and if beating Texas 1 time out of 3 is all that matters...then why would he get fired for losing to Miami??? :confused: Don't contradict yourself in the same post! ;)


Fran's 4 years:

Fran is 1-3 vs. Texas
" 1-3 vs. Tech
Zero wins vs. NEB
Zero wins vs. OU

= 2 wins vs. those 4

& lost once to Baylor
& worst loss in school history
& 2 blowout bowl losses
& 25-23 overall
& he is a jerk
& he treats people like crap
& he is fat!

Be gone Frannie!

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by g$$
Fran's 4 years:

Fran is 1-3 vs. Texas
" 1-3 vs. Tech
Zero wins vs. NEB
Zero wins vs. OU

= 2 wins vs . those 4

& lost once to Baylor
& worst loss in school history
& 2 blowout bowl losses
& 25-23 overall
& he is a jerk
& he treats people like crap
& he is fat!

Be gone Frannie!

Oops...I put him down for 3 seasons. I couldn't remember how far back the mediocrity went...:(

[JakefootballGOD]

hey adidas....

talent doesn't mean anything..if you dont play as a team you wont win a thing...

i was being a smart A**, when i was talking about a&m beating texas, i know its not the only thing that matters....

i hate fran, he needs to be FIRED...

[g$$]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
Oops...I put him down for 3 seasons. I couldn't remember how far back the mediocrity went...:(

They run together sometimes! Mediocrity is being kind...


I agree with the poster who said Tommy Bowden. His days may be numbered at Clemson too. Never finishes a season strong.

[burnet44]

saban
too much money
for what he has done
there are 10 guys with better cred than him

mac
carroll
joe pa
bobby
tressel
stoops
coker
carr
steve
guy at mount union

[JakefootballGOD]

did you just say that mack brown is a better coach than saban?

[mwynn05]

I think its so funny how before Texas won the NC for several years (even calling for his job) all people talked about was how Mack couldn't win the big game...Then they won the NC and its like he's always done it

[JakefootballGOD]

agreed on that one....that is why longhorn fans are the most annoying people in the world

[mwynn05]

Originally posted by JakefootballGOD
agreed on that one....that is why longhorn fans are the most annoying people in the world Not even longhorn fans as much as the media

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by mwynn05
Not even longhorn fans as much as the media Hey, they did beat "the greatest college football team of all time".:rolleyes: :D :D

[JakefootballGOD]

i work with a bunch of horns fans...that is why i say that

[g$$]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
Hey, they did beat "the greatest college football team of all time".:rolleyes: :D :D

Hey, Mack is a good guy & has it going in Austin, no doubt. But let's remember in all his years of coaching, he has won exactly 1 conference championship (& the NC in that same year with a guy named Vince). As far as skins on the wall go, that is not all that impressive. Yes, he has the NC, but a whole lot of wins resulting in 1 conference championship too as a head coach. It could be argued "underachievers" too with that talent in Austin.

Let's not annoint him Bud Wilkinson or Darrell Royal or Bear Bryant here, ok!

[JakefootballGOD]

i already said that...but i'm glad that someone seconds my thoughts.....

but i would like the horns to play in the SEC for one season, and see what there record would be

[Phil C]

Originally posted by g$$
RC's a good man, & I worked for him & respect him. It was time for a change though to try & get over the hump. It has not happened.

A&M right now has the 32nd ranked recruiting class in the country. That is inexcusable with the resources & facilities & academics at A&M. People, like recruits & hs coaches, just don't like Fran. He is pompous & arrogant. He rubs people wrong. He will never be the answer at A&M. NEVER.

Come on g! No. 32 ain't bad. That means only 31 schools were ranked ahead of you. I know No. 66 would love to trade places with you. Count your blessings!!

[Phil C]

Originally posted by bobcat1
Mack Brown. If he does not have a Vince Young, he can not win a big game. And plus the Applewhite decision sucked big chocolate chunks!

:D

I knowed all along that was coming. First it was that he couldn't ever win a big game! Then Vince can't throw! Now it's he can't win without Vince. And when he does that they will come up with something else.

Old Sureshot knows!

:)

[Phil C]

Originally posted by JakefootballGOD
i already said that...but i'm glad that someone seconds my thoughts.....

but i would like the horns to play in the SEC for one season, and see what there record would be

Excelente Bien! No SEC team would have beat the Horns with Vince and very few without Vince. Things go in cycles. You will see.

Few of you will ever remember or know about 1 + 2 + 3 = 8.

:)

[g$$]

Originally posted by Phil C
Come on g! No. 32 ain't bad. That means only 31 schools were ranked ahead of you. I know No. 66 would love to trade places with you. Count your blessings!!

Sarcasm noted, & no thanks to #66. A&M should be better, period.

[Phil C]

Originally posted by mwynn05
I think its so funny how before Texas won the NC for several years (even calling for his job) all people talked about was how Mack couldn't win the big game...Then they won the NC and its like he's always done it

A magnificient year indeed! :)

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[Phil C]

Originally posted by JakefootballGOD
agreed on that one....that is why longhorn fans are the most annoying people in the world

:eek:

Present Company excepted of course! :)

[Phil C]

Originally posted by JakefootballGOD
i work with a bunch of horns fans...that is why i say that

HOW LUCKY CAN YOU GET!!

:D

Joy to Spare and Happiness on Jake!
If it weren't for good luck Jake would have no luck at all!

:)

[JakefootballGOD]

i'm not talking about with vince...lets faced it the kid was great!! but that was in the past

i would like the horns NOW, to compeat outside of the sorry 12, and see what they would do

they barley beat iowa, a sub 500 ball club

[Phil C]

Come on Jake! SHOW SOME COMPASSION!

Of course we enjoyed it when we won the NC in 2005.

I even remembered enjoying it in 1963, 1969 and 1970 (well half of one in 1970).

We are entitled to enjoy it!

Don't you remember how you enjoyed the A&M football NC in 1939! You really had it great then. No wait ______!

:)

[JakefootballGOD]

i know i enjoyed watching it...it was one of the best games i will ever see in my entire life!!

[bobcat1]

Originally posted by g$$
Hey, Mack is a good guy & has it going in Austin, no doubt. But let's remember in all his years of coaching, he has won exactly 1 conference championship (& the NC in that same year with a guy named Vince). As far as skins on the wall go, that is not all that impressive. Yes, he has the NC, but a whole lot of wins resulting in 1 conference championship too as a head coach. It could be argued "underachievers" too with that talent in Austin.

Let's not annoint him Bud Wilkinson or Darrell Royal or Bear Bryant here, ok!

That is the truth. I mean he has all the talent any coach should need to win every year. He just flat can't coach period. How many choke jobs did we as Texans go through with Zero U and Stoops before Vince???????? Zactly my point! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by JakefootballGOD
they barley beat iowa, a sub 500 ball club Don't forget that Iowa was a top 10 team before injuries. When healthy (which they were in the Alamo Bowl) they were probably a top 20 team.

[pirate4state]

I just know this isn't gonna turn into another UT/A&M bash fest, right???

[bobcat1]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
Don't forget that Iowa was a top 10 team before injuries. When healthy (which they were in the Alamo Bowl) they were probably a top 20 team. Any more whitewash coming????????

[bobcat1]

:D :D How about Bash Mack about the head and neck thread? ;)

[JasperDog94]

I'll just leave it at this:

I'll take Mack Brown any day. Are there better coaches? A few. I'll take my chances with the coach we've got than to bring in the next greatest coach and take a chance on him being a dud.

[g$$]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
Don't forget that Iowa was a top 10 team before injuries. When healthy (which they were in the Alamo Bowl) they were probably a top 20 team.

You are reaching Jasper. Iowa had troubles all year, not just injuries. You have been reading Litany's stuff too much. Iowa was not good, period. Texas played flat & it showed in getting an ugly win. Iowa's team speed problem meant more than a few injuries. They were not & are not a Top 20 team. Quit trying to justify an ugly win.

And before you say it, yes A&M lost & deserved to be beaten like that. Cal was flat better. And Fran gets 1 more year.

[JakefootballGOD]

were not bashing him, just stating that he is an underachieving coach that is all....

if he wouldn't have signed VY, no confrence championships, and sure no NT.....the same amount fran has at A&M

[carter08]

Pat Hill- Fresno State

[JakefootballGOD]

he is over rated?

[carter08]

Originally posted by JakefootballGOD
he is over rated?

Yes
He can't beat Boise
and he coached David Carr

[JakefootballGOD]

he is horrible...i watch the game were LSU beat them 38 to 6 should have been worse but they called the dogs off...it was awesome, typical pack 10 team...SOFT

[Maroon87]

Originally posted by JakefootballGOD


if he wouldn't have signed VY, no confrence championships, and sure no NT.....the same amount fran has at A&M


If my aunt had a package, she'd be my uncle.:rolleyes:

[JakefootballGOD]

so one player makes a coach?

thats what your saying....

[carter08]

Originally posted by Maroon87
If my aunt had a package, she'd be my uncle.:rolleyes:

And your uncle would also be an uncle
That would make them gay

[Maroon87]

Originally posted by carter08
And your uncle would also be an uncle
That would make them gay


Figure of speech, junior. Don't get in over your head.

[g$$]

Originally posted by JakefootballGOD
he is horrible...i watch the game were LSU beat them 38 to 6 should have been worse but they called the dogs off...it was awesome, typical pack 10 team...SOFT

Fresno State is in the Pac 10 now? That is news to all of us!

Pat Hill does a good job with what he has at Fresno guys. Very respected by football people, like NFL guys. He used to coach with Belichick too.

[JakefootballGOD]

i guess so...

[JakefootballGOD]

sorry a mistype...i meant to type west coach...sorry about that


i never said anything about pat hill...some one else he was overrated....i dont see how he can be, just becuase he has the worst QB in nfl come from his school! just kidding he is getting better, my jury was out on him before this year, but he showed me alot this year...he just needs a line in front of him

[LitanyofFury]

Mack is not this almighty recruiter like some would have you believe.

Over his tenure at Texas his average recruiting classes come out to 10.2. Yes, outside of the Top 10. The average national ranking over that same time span? Around 8.

He's also the winningest coach in the past decade and if it wasn't for Bob "I sold my soul to the devil" Stoops. . .Texas probably would have 5-7 conference titles and would have been to more than one MNC and so on and so forth.

Ok. . .that's all I got. Don't wanna start any fights and get this thread locked or anything. . .:cool:

[JakefootballGOD]

no fights here...were just trying to see who is over rated...thats all...i think we all know that the most over rated coach in america is FRAN...

[g$$]

Originally posted by JakefootballGOD
i guess so...

Being on the West Coast does not put you in the Pac(ific) 10 Conference buddy! Pat Hill is a good coach doing the best with what he has. Former NFL asst. who always has a competitive team. About all you can ask for at Fresno.

Being in Texas does not automatically put you in the Big 12 either!

[carter08]

Originally posted by JakefootballGOD
no fights here...were just trying to see who is over rated...thats all...i think we all know that the most over rated coach in america is FRAN...

Wrong
Larry Coker
Bob Stoopes
Tommy Tuberville

[JakefootballGOD]

yes i know that, i said i mis-typed it...

calm down bro...

[Bullaholic]

I'll put Nick Saban on the "watch" list if he fails to improve 'Bama any after his 1st season. We'll see if his LSU success was the result of a "sackfull" of talent every year, or his coaching genius. The more I find out about Saban, the less I like him-----but i will give him time to prove himself at Alabama before I form a permanent opinion.

[JakefootballGOD]

he will be "that guy" if he doesn't have a good season quick....

and the only reason why he did what he did at lsu is jerry denardo, built it up before he got there!!!

so we will see

[g$$]

Originally posted by carter08
Wrong
Larry Coker
Bob Stoopes
Tommy Tuberville

You might want to look at those 3 guys' records before making that statement. Stoops & Coker have NCs, & Tuberville has a done a great job at Auburn (he should have played for a NC too).

Wow Carter, you outdid yourself there buddy!

[Phil C]

Ok Everyone! I got a good ideal! Let's now discuss coaches other than Coach Mack or Coach Fran!

Good idea!!

[g$$]

Originally posted by LitanyofFury
Mack is not this almighty recruiter like some would have you believe.

Over his tenure at Texas his average recruiting classes come out to 10.2. Yes, outside of the Top 10. The average national ranking over that same time span? Around 8.

He's also the winningest coach in the past decade and if it wasn't for Bob "I sold my soul to the devil" Stoops. . .Texas probably would have 5-7 conference titles and would have been to more than one MNC and so on and so forth.

Ok. . .that's all I got. Don't wanna start any fights and get this thread locked or anything. . .:cool:

Disagree. If you are known as Mr. February, then your recruiting prowess is well-known. Having top 10 classes yearly is not by accident (10.2 avg. as you say).

Those #s are subjective anyway as we all know. And Bob Stoops is in your conference, so it is what it is: 1 conference championship in all his years of coaching.

[JakefootballGOD]

what about MR.Sweatervest himself?

[LitanyofFury]

Originally posted by g$$
Disagree. If you are known as Mr. February, then your recruiting prowess is well-known. Having top 10 classes yearly is not by accident (10.2 avg. as you say).

Those #s are subjective anyway as we all know. And Bob Stoops is in your conference, so it is what it is: 1 conference championship in all his years of coaching.

Go look up the stats. The whole "Mack is the greatest recruiter ever" is a myth. He does a great job, but he isn't anywhere near the best.

Oklahoma has (except for the past year or so) routinely pulled in MUCH better classes than Texas has. Remember top recruits like Peterson and Bomar going to OU?

Sorry, but I just don't believe you can say Mack has underachieved. He consistently wins 9+, 10+ games a season AND he gets bowl wins as well. Say what you want about Vince winning those games recently, but the reason Vince was on campus was because of Mack, even tho that year Vince was the only 5* Texas picked up. While most programs do good for a year or so and then fall off and have terrible seasons (Michigan, Ohio St., Penn St., Florida St., Miami, etc.) Mack's team never does. They always pull in 9 wins or more and get to a bowl game.

Say what you want about Mack, but he's acheived more than any other coach in the NCAA in the past decade. The only coach recently to have more success than him is Pete Carroll at USC and Mack beat him in the head to head matchup.

I'm not going to sit here and put down other coaches, but there's a LOT of guys out there running teams that have underachieved and trying to throw Mack in with them is ridiculous. The guy turned around a TERRIBLE program and made it the winningest in college football. Saying he's an underachiever just doesn't make sense.

[tiger_94]

Originally posted by LitanyofFury
Sorry, but I just don't believe you can say Mack has underachieved. He consistently wins 9+, 10+ games a season AND he gets bowl wins as well. Say what you want about Vince winning those games recently, but the reason Vince was on campus was because of Mack, even tho that year Vince was the only 5* Texas picked up. While most programs do good for a year or so and then fall off and have terrible seasons (Michigan, Ohio St., Penn St., Florida St., Miami, etc.) Mack's team never does. They always pull in 9 wins or more and get to a bowl game.

Say what you want about Mack, but he's acheived more than any other coach in the NCAA in the past decade. The only coach recently to have more success than him is Pete Carroll at USC and Mack beat him in the head to head matchup.

I'm not going to sit here and put down other coaches, but there's a LOT of guys out there running teams that have underachieved and trying to throw Mack in with them is ridiculous. The guy turned around a TERRIBLE program and made it the winningest in college football. Saying he's an underachiever just doesn't make sense.
That is a great and true post.

[htowntransplant]

Originally posted by bobcat1
Mack Brown. If he does not have a Vince Young, he can not win a big game. And plus the Applewhite decision sucked big chocolate chunks!

i agree...

when you recruit like Texas does, you should consistently have a national championship contender. Mack Brown hasnt won many big games. Vince young single handidly won both rose bowls. Texas wouldnt win a national championship without vince. it was because of the double threat spread option that allowed the running game to thrive. This season was extremely subpar in the running game and the o-line didnt really look as dominate as it typically woulda looked under vince young.

as far as the most underrated college coach....no doubt its greg schiano of rutgers

[LitanyofFury]

Originally posted by htowntransplant
i agree...

when you recruit like Texas does, you should consistently have a national championship contender. Mack Brown hasnt won many big games. Vince young single handidly won both rose bowls. Texas wouldnt win a national championship without vince. it was because of the double threat spread option that allowed the running game to thrive. This season was extremely subpar in the running game and the o-line didnt really look as dominate as it typically woulda looked under vince young.

as far as the most underrated college coach....no doubt its greg schiano of rutgers

Ummm. . .when has Texas NOT had a shot at the national title these past few years? You take away that 1 loss to Oklahoma each year and Texas is right there to take OU's place in the title game or at least be in the running for it.

If Colt McCoy doesn't get speared in the head by a KSU player then Texas would have been in the running for the title AGAIN this year, at the least back in another BCS bowl game.

Sorry, but your argument that Texas hasn't been contending for the title is a little off. When you win 10+ games a season you're part of college football's elite and right there for a shot at the title game.

Also. . .on a side note. . .great recruiting doesn't equal success for ANY coach. Pete Carroll has had his pick of the best kids in the nation for a few years now. He's STOCK FULL of 5 stars on his team and they lost to Oregon St. (who Mizzou almost beat) and UCLA. They're just lucky enough not to have to play a conference title game and the sports media loves them so they're going to get a BCS game every year they're close, kinda like Notre Dame. Sometimes recruits just don't pan out or play up to the level they should. A LOT of kids offa that #1 recruiting class of '02 never panned out for the Horns.

Brian Pickryl 5 star: never did anything at TE.

Albert Hardy 4 star: got injured and never played FB.

Chase Pittman 4 star: had a knee injury and left.

Marco Martin 4 star: severe injury in HS his senior season before he got to UT, never contributed

Garnett Smith 4 star: starting LB his sophomore season. . .ankle injury and never regained his starting spot

Edorian McCullough 5 star: never did a thing for the Horns

The list goes on and as g$$ always likes to say. . .you can only recruit 25 kids a year. Lots of those guys just don't pan out, or they screw up (Ramonce) and end up having to leave the team. Combine that with the fact that the Horns have taken small classes the past few years:

2003 (18), 2004 (20), and 2005 (15)

...and you don't have NEAR the recuiting prowess that a lot of you are claiming UT has.

[bobcat1]

Originally posted by LitanyofFury
Ummm. . .when has Texas NOT had a shot at the national title these past few years? You take away that 1 loss to Oklahoma each year and Texas is right there to take OU's place in the title game or at least be in the running for it.

If Colt McCoy doesn't get speared in the head by a KSU player then Texas would have been in the running for the title AGAIN this year, at the least back in another BCS bowl game.

Sorry, but your argument that Texas hasn't been contending for the title is a little off. When you win 10+ games a season you're part of college football's elite and right there for a shot at the title game.

IF IF IF IF Grandma would of had a ........ 10-0 is real good Start When you can't get the big one done you under achieve. Zero U had no problem whippin his arse year after year after year. My favorite play was when Roy Williams of Zero U leaped the center to hit Simms in the mouth for a loss. Awesome college play! I loved that play!!!!!!!!!!!

[LitanyofFury]

Originally posted by bobcat1
IF IF IF IF Grandma would of had a ........ 10-0 is real good Start When you can't get the big one done you under achieve. Zero U had no problem whippin his arse year after year after year. My favorite play was when Roy Williams of Zero U leaped the center to hit Simms in the mouth for a loss. Awesome college play! I loved that play!!!!!!!!!!!

Congrats to Oklahoma. Really. They've been great. However, the only national title Stoops ever won was with his predecessor's recruits. Since then he's been getting beat down in BCS games. Also, it now seems like the reason he was doing so well was because all his players were on the payroll along with his coaches.....

And in the Stoops/Brown era Oklahoma leads the series 5 to 3. I think most people let the 5 year streak cloud their judgement....the recent history of the series is almost dead even and Texas still leads the all-time series by quite a bit.

[bobcat1]

Brown has beat ZeroU 3 of 8 tries. That's an accomplishment in some folks eyes. I guess Vince helped him win 2 of those. So that leaves 1 out of 6 without Vince. LMAO He is as solid of an under achiever as has been posted on this thread. Until Vince all of Texas wanted him fired! LMAO.

[LitanyofFury]

Originally posted by bobcat1
Brown has beat ZeroU 3 of 8 tries. That's an accomplishment in some folks eyes. I guess Vince helped him win 2 of those. So that leaves 1 out of 6 without Vince. LMAO He is as solid of an under achiever as has been posted on this thread. Until Vince all of Texas wanted him fired! LMAO.

Alright. That's your opinion and you're welcome to it.

[sinfan75]

No they didn't!!

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by bobcat1
Brown has beat ZeroU 3 of 8 tries. That's an accomplishment in some folks eyes. I guess Vince helped him win 2 of those. So that leaves 1 out of 6 without Vince. LMAO He is as solid of an under achiever as has been posted on this thread. Until Vince all of Texas wanted him fired! LMAO. Vince only beat OU once.

[AggieJohn]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
Vince only beat OU once. yeah, that's what i was about too say....


and my 2 cents...fran is over-rated...

[charlesrixey]

John L. Smith
Nick Saban
Tommy Bowden
Dennis Franchione
Gary Barnett
Rick Neuheisel

there's more, but i started thinking about the underrated coaches and i lost my train of thought

[charlesrixey]

Originally posted by bobcat1
Brown has beat ZeroU 3 of 8 tries. That's an accomplishment in some folks eyes. I guess Vince helped him win 2 of those. So that leaves 1 out of 6 without Vince. LMAO He is as solid of an under achiever as has been posted on this thread. Until Vince all of Texas wanted him fired! LMAO.


i hate to disagree with another bobcat, but...........

[West22]

Texas winning is a direct result of a recruting all of the blue chippers in tx so they have no reason not to win .It is the same as having premier players at SLC every year .Who ever the coach is they will always win a lot of games. Texas has gotten the best players in the state for as long as I remember so anytime someone else beats them it is quite a feat.,<A&M>

[bobcat1]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
Vince only beat OU once.
OOPS! My bad. Then 2 times out of 7 without Vince. Does that look better? LOL

[LitanyofFury]

Originally posted by bobcat1
OOPS! My bad. Then 2 times out of 7 without Vince. Does that look better? LOL

You sure do "LOL" and "LMAO" alot. Is it because:

A) You spend WAY too much time on AIM

B) You're just a really jovial fellow

C) You have an overinflated opinion of how funny you are....

[bobcat1]

The answer is B backed up by your logic which really makes me LMAO and I do really like laughing at people who take themselves way too serious! :p

[charlesrixey]

Originally posted by West22
Texas winning is a direct result of a recruting all of the blue chippers in tx so they have no reason not to win .It is the same as having premier players at SLC every year .Who ever the coach is they will always win a lot of games. Texas has gotten the best players in the state for as long as I remember so anytime someone else beats them it is quite a feat.,<A&M>

right

coaching has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with it
what was Texas' record the year before mack brown took over?

4-7

just a thought

[bobcat1]

Originally posted by charlesrixey
right

coaching has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with it
what was Texas' record the year before mack brown took over?

4-7

just a thought

Just a thought, Were they playing Stephen F Austin and UNT back then? I really don't know or it wouldn't be a thought.

[LitanyofFury]

Originally posted by bobcat1
The answer is B backed up by your logic which really makes me LMAO and I do really like laughing at people who take themselves way too serious! :p

I don't take myself way too serious. I just take people who have no clue what they're talking about with a grain of salt.;)

[g$$]

Originally posted by LitanyofFury
Ummm. . .when has Texas NOT had a shot at the national title these past few years? You take away that 1 loss to Oklahoma each year and Texas is right there to take OU's place in the title game or at least be in the running for it.

If Colt McCoy doesn't get speared in the head by a KSU player then Texas would have been in the running for the title AGAIN this year, at the least back in another BCS bowl game.

Sorry, but your argument that Texas hasn't been contending for the title is a little off. When you win 10+ games a season you're part of college football's elite and right there for a shot at the title game.

Also. . .on a side note. . .great recruiting doesn't equal success for ANY coach. Pete Carroll has had his pick of the best kids in the nation for a few years now. He's STOCK FULL of 5 stars on his team and they lost to Oregon St. (who Mizzou almost beat) and UCLA. They're just lucky enough not to have to play a conference title game and the sports media loves them so they're going to get a BCS game every year they're close, kinda like Notre Dame. Sometimes recruits just don't pan out or play up to the level they should. A LOT of kids offa that #1 recruiting class of '02 never panned out for the Horns.

Brian Pickryl 5 star: never did anything at TE.

Albert Hardy 4 star: got injured and never played FB.

Chase Pittman 4 star: had a knee injury and left.

Marco Martin 4 star: severe injury in HS his senior season before he got to UT, never contributed

Garnett Smith 4 star: starting LB his sophomore season. . .ankle injury and never regained his starting spot

Edorian McCullough 5 star: never did a thing for the Horns

The list goes on and as g$$ always likes to say. . .you can only recruit 25 kids a year. Lots of those guys just don't pan out, or they screw up (Ramonce) and end up having to leave the team. Combine that with the fact that the Horns have taken small classes the past few years:

2003 (18), 2004 (20), and 2005 (15)

...and you don't have NEAR the recuiting prowess that a lot of you are claiming UT has.

Good points, but not all correct. You can't take Stoops out of the equation. That's like saying the ugly girl would win Miss America if she was pretty enough! It is what it is: 1 conference championship in 20+ years of being a HC.

Colt was not speared - heads collided when Texas ran the qb sneak twice on the goal line because they had no power running game all year (Melton, now at DE like I told you in September). Nothing was illegal about that hit, just unfortunate & football. No penalty either, right?

Mack has done well, but Carroll has him with NCs & big games won. Look that up. Nobody bats .1000 in recruiting, you just hope to limit your misses. Some of those were self-inflicted too.

- Marco Martin = big loser, hurt & then molested a child
- Edorian McCullough = grade problems & busted for drugs in the same car with Larry Dibbles, Selvin Young, & Aaron Harris years ago (got off of course, but drugs were found in car near Madisonville)
- Chase Pittman = solid career at LSU, will play on Sundays; left Texas b/c of brother Cole's tragic death
- etc. like all schools

You don't have to be #1 to have great recruiting classes. Texas has averaged per class 10.2 nationally recruiting. So, the label "underachieved" could be argued if you put stock in those #s. I don't personally b/c I have seen way too many busts. Barry Sanders was given a scholarship at the last minute by OK State, & he did alright for himself. Colt was a 2* right?

Bottom line is this: Texas should have won more than 1 conference title the past 10 years. The talent has been on campus. Yes, they were down under Mackovic, but he did win 1 conference title (thus they were not terrible, just sliding). McWilliams won 1 SWC title also & got stomped by Miami. So did A&M (Big 12) in 1998. That is the albatross around Mack's neck & now VY is gone. See what happens in the near future...

[LitanyofFury]

Originally posted by g$$
Good points, but not all correct. You can't take Stoops out of the equation. That's like saying the ugly girl would win Miss America if she was pretty enough! It is what it is: 1 conference championship in 20+ years of being a HC.

Colt was not speared - heads collided when Texas ran the qb sneak twice on the goal line because they had no power running game all year (Melton, now at DE like I told you in September). Nothing was illegal about that hit, just unfortunate & football. No penalty either, right?

Mack has done well, but Carroll has him with NCs & big games won. Look that up. Nobody bats .1000 in recruiting, you just hope to limit your misses. Some of those were self-inflicted too.

- Marco Martin = big loser, hurt & then molested a child
- Edorian McCullough = grade problems & busted for drugs in the same car with Larry Dibbles, Selvin Young, & Aaron Harris years ago (got off of course, but drugs were found in car near Madisonville)
- Chase Pittman = solid career at LSU, will play on Sundays; left Texas b/c of brother Cole's tragic death
- etc. like all schools

You don't have to be #1 to have great recruiting classes. Texas has averaged per class 10.2 nationally recruiting. So, the label "underachieved" could be argued if you put stock in those #s. I don't personally b/c I have seen way too many busts. Barry Sanders was given a scholarship at the last minute by OK State, & he did alright for himself. Colt was a 2* right?

Bottom line is this: Texas should have won more than 1 conference title the past 10 years. The talent has been on campus. Yes, they were down under Mackovic, but he did win 1 conference title (thus they were not terrible, just sliding). McWilliams won 1 SWC title also & got stomped by Miami. So did A&M (Big 12) in 1998. That is the albatross around Mack's neck & now VY is gone. See what happens in the near future...

Considering I wasn't here in September. . .but whatever.

I still don't understand why you think Mack should have won more conference titles. Like I said. . .Oklahoma's draft classes have consistently been higher than Texas'. So, obviously they've had more talent than Texas and a lot of the time that's shown on the field.

Mack came in to a program in shambles that had just finished going 4-7. He then made an immediate turn-around and a decade later the Horns are the winningest football team in the NCAA during that time. During that time Texas has wins over LSU, USC, Ohio State, and Michigan. . .some of the best programs of all time.

So how can you say he's an underachiever? In reality. . .the original post of this thread was talking about OVERRATED coaches. . .which Mack obviously isn't because most everyone says he sucks and the only reason he's won anything is because of Vince. Nevermind the fact that the reason Vince was on campus at UT instead of at Miami is because of Mack. . .and nevermind the fact that if you take the best player/players off of any championship team they aren't champions. Take Bush or Leinart offa USC. No titles. Take Clarrett offa Ohio State from a few years ago. . .or Weinke offa the Seminoles. . .no titles. So that argument is just downright stupid, especially given the improvements Vince made from his freshman to his sophomore to his junior years. I know Vince is a freak (I'm his biggest supporter), but he didn't develop on his own ya know.

I mean, sorry, but as a Horn fan I'm damn glad Mack is the coach. While other teams have to sit through mediocre years and years when they know they don't have any shot at a bigtime game, I always know the Horns have a shot to get to a BCS bowl or the title. I've also had to endure a LOT less losses than most college football fans have. I've also gotten to see some of the best games every played thanks to Mack.

At the end of the day, Mack is a successful coach who HAS won. Blame all the winning on Vince you want, it won't change the fact that the Horns have been more successful in the BCS than any other Big 12 team and any other team across the country except for USC. That's pretty impressive for ANY program/coach but especially at Texas where the fans are rabid about their football and in the Big 12 which has been arguably the best/most successful conference in the BCS era.

And no. . .Colt was a 3*. But wait. . .Mack is an overrated, underachieving coach. . .no WAY in heck did he have ANYTHING to do with that 3* redshirt Freshman being the best freshman QB in the NCAA....;)

And yes. . .it WAS a spear job by the KSU linebacker on Colt. The refs don't catch everything. . .just like they didn't catch the fact that Selvin crossed the plane of the goal-line 2 plays earlier....

[g$$]

Originally posted by LitanyofFury
Considering I wasn't here in September. . .but whatever.

I still don't understand why you think Mack should have won more conference titles. Like I said. . .Oklahoma's draft classes have consistently been higher than Texas'. So, obviously they've had more talent than Texas and a lot of the time that's shown on the field.

Mack came in to a program in shambles that had just finished going 4-7. He then made an immediate turn-around and a decade later the Horns are the winningest football team in the NCAA during that time. During that time Texas has wins over LSU, USC, Ohio State, and Michigan. . .some of the best programs of all time.

So how can you say he's an underachiever? In reality. . .the original post of this thread was talking about OVERRATED coaches. . .which Mack obviously isn't because most everyone says he sucks and the only reason he's won anything is because of Vince. Nevermind the fact that the reason Vince was on campus at UT instead of at Miami is because of Mack. . .and nevermind the fact that if you take the best player/players off of any championship team they aren't champions. Take Bush or Leinart offa USC. No titles. Take Clarrett offa Ohio State from a few years ago. . .or Weinke offa the Seminoles. . .no titles. So that argument is just downright stupid, especially given the improvements Vince made from his freshman to his sophomore to his junior years. I know Vince is a freak (I'm his biggest supporter), but he didn't develop on his own ya know.

I mean, sorry, but as a Horn fan I'm damn glad Mack is the coach. While other teams have to sit through mediocre years and years when they know they don't have any shot at a bigtime game, I always know the Horns have a shot to get to a BCS bowl or the title. I've also had to endure a LOT less losses than most college football fans have. I've also gotten to see some of the best games every played thanks to Mack.

At the end of the day, Mack is a successful coach who HAS won. Blame all the winning on Vince you want, it won't change the fact that the Horns have been more successful in the BCS than any other Big 12 team and any other team across the country except for USC. That's pretty impressive for ANY program/coach but especially at Texas where the fans are rabid about their football and in the Big 12 which has been arguably the best/most successful conference in the BCS era.

And no. . .Colt was a 3*. But wait. . .Mack is an overrated, underachieving coach. . .no WAY in heck did he have ANYTHING to do with that 3* redshirt Freshman being the best freshman QB in the NCAA....;)

And yes. . .it WAS a spear job by the KSU linebacker on Colt. The refs don't catch everything. . .just like they didn't catch the fact that Selvin crossed the plane of the goal-line 2 plays earlier....

1. Not a spear & you know it. Just football. The bigger question is why is your qb your best power runner there on the goal line TWICE? You are reaching again for a poor performance. Colt did not play defense did he? Iowa was avg. too & not just injury related.

2. Never said Mack was an underachiever. I did say it could be argued as he has won 1 conference championship in his LIFE. Excuse me, Colt was a 3* recruit, not a 2. Same point as I do not value those #s as the be all/end all like most. Why the question? Because it is Texas football, that is why. Expectations are high every year & they should be.

3. Recruiting #s do not mean automatic NCs. Ask Ole Miss right now. Will not happen.

4. Name 1 big game (truly big game) Mack Brown has won in his career without Vince Young? Name one...LSU in Cotton Bowl does not count as BIG. Texas fell to the Cotton.

5. Mack is certainly a good coach & great recruiter. But he has had troubles winning the big game, esp. without Vince Young. That is not me talking, it is the facts. Prove me wrong...

6. You were here in September arguing Melton's merits. I told you where he would end up (DE). Should have listened then WTL.

[g$$]

Did Carson Palmer win a split title at USC? I could be wrong but I thought they did his senior year when he won the Heisman...

[TexanAlum_06]

Im glad to have Mack as our coach. He does get out-coached from time to time, but who doesnt. Ask bob stoops about the fiesta bowl. Now do I honestly think Mack has choked in big games, yes I have. But I dont blame it all on him. I still maintain that Greg Davis was apart of the problem. in our 5 losses to OU. mainly the 2 that were blowouts. The offensive playcalling was terrible. Or look at most big games we have lost because of lack of offense (OSU this year). he had a terrible game plan! Mack Brown doesnt call the plays. Yeah some people say that davis did a great job of molding the offense around VY's talents. But IMO VY made GD look better. and I put most of the blame on him for our running game problems and not willing to scrap the zone read which OBVIOUSLY doesnt work without a mobile QB, but yet they kept on running it. and with all talent we had at reciever with Williams, Thomas, and Johnson.a couple of years back that were never used. We do have the talent to play for a NC year in year out but sometimes it just doesnt happen. upsets happen. teams Implode.... it happens. it is apart of this game. PERIOD. with all said Im happy to have Mack and I think he is a good coach. I think he should get rid of Davis and get someone thats a little more creative. but thats just me.

[TexanAlum_06]

Originally posted by g$$
Did Carson Palmer win a split title at USC? I could be wrong but I thought they did his senior year when he won the Heisman... No that was the year that Iowa randomly was really good and they played them in the Orange Bowl and beat them. USC had 2 losses that year. At Kansas State and a loss on the road to Washington State.

[g$$]

Originally posted by TexanAlum_06
Im glad to have Mack as our coach. He does get out-coached from time to time, but who doesnt. Ask bob stoops about the fiesta bowl. Now do I honestly think Mack has choked in big games, yes I have. But I dont blame it all on him. I still maintain that Greg Davis was apart of the problem. in our 5 losses to OU. mainly the 2 that were blowouts. The offensive playcalling was terrible. Or look at most big games we have lost because of lack of offense (OSU this year). he had a terrible game plan! Mack Brown doesnt call the plays. Yeah some people say that davis did a great job of molding the offense around VY's talents. But IMO VY made GD look better. and I put most of the blame on him for our running game problems and not willing to scrap the zone read which OBVIOUSLY doesnt work without a mobile QB, but yet they kept on running it. and with all talent we had at reciever with Williams, Thomas, and Johnson.a couple of years back that were never used. We do have the talent to play for a NC year in year out but sometimes it just doesnt happen. upsets happen. teams Implode.... it happens. it is apart of this game. PERIOD. with all said Im happy to have Mack and I think he is a good coach. I think he should get rid of Davis and get someone thats a little more creative. but thats just me.

I like this guy. Objective Longhorn, good stuff. :thumbsup:

[g$$]

Originally posted by TexanAlum_06
No that was the year that Iowa randomly was really good and they played them in the Orange Bowl and beat them. USC had 2 losses that year. At Kansas State and a loss on the road to Washington State.

You're right, I am thinking of when Auburn should have played them & not OU/LSU in Sugar. LSU split with them right? Thanks.

[TexanAlum_06]

I try. lol. ;)

[LitanyofFury]

Originally posted by g$$
1. Not a spear & you know it. Just football. The bigger question is why is your qb your best power runner there on the goal line TWICE? You are reaching again for a poor performance. Colt did not play defense did he? Iowa was avg. too & not just injury related.

2. Never said Mack was an underachiever. I did say it could be argued as he has won 1 conference championship in his LIFE. Excuse me, Colt was a 3* recruit, not a 2. Same point as I do not value those #s as the be all/end all like most. Why the question? Because it is Texas football, that is why. Expectations are high every year & they should be.

3. Recruiting #s do not mean automatic NCs. Ask Ole Miss right now. Will not happen.

4. Name 1 big game (truly big game) Mack Brown has won in his career without Vince Young? Name one...LSU in Cotton Bowl does not count as BIG. Texas fell to the Cotton.

5. Mack is certainly a good coach & great recruiter. But he has had troubles winning the big game, esp. without Vince Young. That is not me talking, it is the facts. Prove me wrong...

6. You were here in September arguing Melton's merits. I told you where he would end up (DE). Should have listened then WTL.

1. Go watch the replay. It was a spear.

2. You're right. Texas has higher standards than probably any other team in the nation.

3. I said this over and over in my earlier posts so no idea why you're bringing this up.

4. Umm. . .ever hear of the win in '98 over #7 ranked Nebraska and then the win over #6 ranked Aggies later in the year? 1999, #18 Texas over #3 ranked Nebraska 24-20. Among many other big wins. . .all WITHOUT Vince. Yes, the Vince argument is lame and an excuse Horn haters use because they can't deal with Texas' success.

5. Mack had a bad run against Stoops' paid players for 5 years, yes. That really was the only "big game" he couldn't win. The only other "big game" that he lost was the Big 12 championship game against Colorado after they'd already crushed Colorado earlier in the year. Chalk that one all up to Chris "I'm a choker" Simms.

6. Please, don't start this nonsense again. It makes you look like a fool. And yes, Melton sucks. That's why he's playing defense now.

EDIT: And I give even more credit to Mack considering he's won as much as he has with a millstone like Greg Davis hanging around his neck.;)

[TexanAlum_06]

Originally posted by g$$
You're right, I am thinking of when Auburn should have played them & not OU. LSU split with them right? Thanks.

Yeah Auburn got screwed. that was a load of crap. NO OU shouldnt have played LSU in 03 when they got blow out by Kstate and still played for the NC. and USC claims they won because they went undeafeted. but yet auburn doesnt get to say they had a split NC and they went undefeated, Thats called Media politics. its CHEAP. Im sorry but kiss my crippled a$$( quote from forrest gump ) IMO if you dont play in the NC game, then you are not national champions.Period. thats how I see it.

[g$$]

Originally posted by LitanyofFury
1. Go watch the replay. It was a spear.

2. You're right. Texas has higher standards than probably any other team in the nation.

3. I said this over and over in my earlier posts so no idea why you're bringing this up.

4. Umm. . .ever hear of the win in '98 over #7 ranked Nebraska and then the win over #6 ranked Aggies later in the year? 1999, #18 Texas over #3 ranked Nebraska 24-20. Among many other big wins. . .all WITHOUT Vince. Yes, the Vince argument is lame and an excuse Horn haters use because they can't deal with Texas' success.

5. Mack had a bad run against Stoops' paid players for 5 years, yes. That really was the only "big game" he couldn't win. The only other "big game" that he lost was the Big 12 championship game against Colorado after they'd already crushed Colorado earlier in the year. Chalk that one all up to Chris "I'm a choker" Simms.

6. Please, don't start this nonsense again. It makes you look like a fool. And yes, Melton sucks. That's why he's playing defense now.

1. You're wrong & still reaching to justify something in your mind. Nothing but football & stupid play calling.

2. You asked, I answered. No higher than 10 or so other teams every year too.

3. You put way too much stock in recruiting #s, not me fella.

4. Did those so-called big wins lead to conference titles? NO, so nothing more than a good win, not season changing. Keep researching a BIG win without VY.

5. I hate OU too, but you sound like you are making excuses. Maybe the NCAA will find proof, maybe not. Texas is not squeaky clean either (nobody is). Texas just got beat in those games.

6. Should have listened in September. Melton was never a good RB, certainly a great athlete, thus now on defense at DE.

[g$$]

Originally posted by LitanyofFury

EDIT: And I give even more credit to Mack considering he's won as much as he has with a millstone like Greg Davis hanging around his neck.;)

Mack hired him, life-long friend, has defended him repeatedly, & he still has a job. Won the Frank Broyles Award (asst. coach) too. I am not a fan either of his play calling, but blame Mack for keeping him instead of deflecting blame. That is lame.

GD has done a good job developing qbs at Texas. GD used to coach at A&M in the early '80s, he & Kubiak are still tight.

[LitanyofFury]

Originally posted by g$$
Mack hired him, life-long friend, has defended him repeatedly, & he still has a job. Won the Frank Broyles Award (asst. coach) too. I am not a fan either of his play calling, but blame Mack for keeping him instead of deflecting blame. That is lame.

GD has done a good job developing qbs at Texas. GD used to coach at A&M in the early '80s, he & Kubiak are still tight.

No no no. . .Vince did it all on his own, remember? Without Vince, Mack and Greg would be a bunch of nobodies who hadn't ever won a big game. . .ever! :rolleyes:

[g$$]

Originally posted by LitanyofFury
No no no. . .Vince did it all on his own, remember? Without Vince, Mack and Greg would be a bunch of nobodies who hadn't ever won a big game. . .ever! :rolleyes:

I NEVER said that Litany, others did. Football is a team game, but VY was the difference-maker. Mack is forever grateful.

[JJ7997]

Originally posted by bobcat1
Mack Brown. If he does not have a Vince Young, he can not win a big game. And plus the Applewhite decision sucked big chocolate chunks!

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by g$$
4. Name 1 big game (truly big game) Mack Brown has won in his career without Vince Young? Name one...LSU in Cotton Bowl does not count as BIG. Texas fell to the Cotton. OU this past year. If not for the shoddy refs OU would have been undefeated going into that game.

[g$$]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
OU this past year. If not for the shoddy refs OU would have been undefeated going into that game.

That is a good win, not a BIG win. Big wins are season changing, conference title games, BCS bowl games, NCs, etc. You say that only because of recent history (Mack is 3-5 vs. OU, including losing 5 in a row). Did Texas win the conference this year? NO. Big wins translate into big seasons!

Keep researching...

[LitanyofFury]

Originally posted by g$$
That is a good win, not a BIG win. Big wins are season changing, conference title games, BCS bowl games, NCs, etc. You say that only because of recent history (Mack is 3-5 vs. OU, including losing 5 in a row). Did Texas win the conference this year? NO. Big wins translate into big seasons!

Keep researching...

I'd call winning 10 games a bowl a "big season". . .for any other school that's a banner year that you many not see for awhile. At Texas? Ho-hum.

If you wanna talk about overrated:

Jeff Tedford (tho he did just MUTILATE the Ags)

Charlie Weiss (hasn't beat a decent team yet since he's shown up at South Bend)

Rich Rodriquez (claims to have invented the spread offense ??? and is currently kicking the butt of a bunch of cupcakes each year and that's it)

Larry Coker (won a title with Butch Davis' kids, almost won another. . .then they graduated and things went downhill. . .probably because his face looks like it was made outta playdough)

And. . .as in RECENT history. . .Bob Stoops. Yes, Bob Stoops is overrated.

Stoops' performance since his brother (the real "Big Game Stoops") left at the end of the 2003 season:

Since 1999 Since 2003
vs Top 10 8-5 (62%) 1-4 (20%)
vs Top 25 18-12 (60%) 6-9 (40%)
Bowls 4-4 (50%) 1-3 (25%)
BCS Bowls 2-3 (40%) 0-3 (0%)

Can you spot the trend since '03? Look real hard through your Crimson glasses and you may be able to see it. Meanwhile, the following are Mack's records over the same periods:

Since 1999 Since 2003
vs Top 10 6-11 (35%) 3-3 (50%)
vs Top 25 23-15 (61%) 14-4 (78%)
Bowls 6-3 (66%) 3-1 (75%)
BCS Bowls 2-0 (100%) 2-0 (100%)

I don't mean to let the facts get in the way of a weak argument, but somehow, somewhere along the line, reality and myth got crossed, and it seems that Oklahoma fans have bought into the myth lock, stock and barrell. Nevermind the collapse at the end of 2003 with "the greatest team of all time", never mind the 40 point loss to USC in the Orange Bowl, never mind the loss to TCU on your home field, never mind an embarassing loss to a D-IAA team in the Fiesta Bowl.....all is well in Norman and Stoops is clearly on the right path. So what if you backdoored your way into another conference title (which frankly. . .as bad as the Big 12 was this year, means absolutely JACK) because the best player in the conference (The Terror from Tuscola) got injured?

The ONLY reason why conference titles matter at all is because Texas plays in the Big 12 which means it gives you an auto-bid to the BCS and the Fiesta Bowl. Several conferences don't even feel it important enough to play a conference title game! Why? It's asinine. It's just another game for the conference to make money off of. In fact, when they held a vote. . .all but I think one of the coaches in the Big 12 voted to abolish the conference championship game. However, the guys in charge decided no. . .the conference definitely needed to play ANOTHER game. . .

And oh yeah. . .let's not forget the most overrated and underachieving coach of all-time. . .Mr. Dennis "Little Debbie" Franchioni.

So. . .if the only argument you have against Mack being overrated or an underachiever is conference titles. . .you're on a sinking ship, especially considering the mass evacuations that are happening up there in Norman. You can't count on freak accidents like Colt getting hurt every year, and it definitely seems like the tide has turned in the RRS which leaves Texas the clear favorite for the Big 12 crown each year.

[g$$]

Where was Cal before Jeff Tedford? Think hard now...nowhere! Not overrated one bit.

Never said Mack stunk, just said he has 1 conference championship in his life as a HC. You seem to devalue winning your own league for some reason...maybe b/c that has not been Mack's strength?

Good points on Stoops. However, & I hate OU, the man can coach. His teams get better throughout the season each year. Bowls have been a problem no doubt. Boise's D1-AA now (sarcasm noted)?

You are right on conference title games. Coaches voted it down, Presidents voted for it. Simply a $$ issue.

McCoy was not the best player in the Big 12. Freshman, yes he was. Peterson was the best player before the injury. Carriker from NEB probably the best defensive player & high pick too. You're swinging from McCoy's jock again Litany. He has 3 years left. Bet you were one of the ones who thought a 2A kid would never make it big too...good for him proving many of you OB's wrong who talked him down before the season.

[JakefootballGOD]

and what quality wins does texas have this year?

neb on the road was a good one...but other than that...10 wins doesnt mean a thing in the small 12....come on dude...

you got beat by A&M and K state...and barley beat iowa a sub 500 ball culb...what a great season!

[dogdad]

I think Todd Dodge is the most over-rated coach

He hasn't coached a game yet at UNT and the fans are already worried about losing him to a big program

[JakefootballGOD]

there some schools like that are just stepping stones...UNT has always been one...that is prally why

[LitanyofFury]

Originally posted by g$$
Where was Cal before Jeff Tedford? Think hard now...nowhere! Not overrated one bit.

Never said Mack stunk, just said he has 1 conference championship in his life as a HC. You seem to devalue winning your own league for some reason...maybe b/c that has not been Mack's strength?

Good points on Stoops. However, & I hate OU, the man can coach. His teams get better throughout the season each year. Bowls have been a problem no doubt. Boise's D1-AA now (sarcasm noted)?

You are right on conference title games. Coaches voted it down, Presidents voted for it. Simply a $$ issue.

McCoy was not the best player in the Big 12. Freshman, yes he was. Peterson was the best player before the injury. Carriker from NEB probably the best defensive player & high pick too. You're swinging from McCoy's jock again Litany. He has 3 years left. Bet you were one of the ones who thought a 2A kid would never make it big too...good for him proving many of you OB's wrong who talked him down before the season.

Ummm. . .I live right down the road from where he used to play. I kept up with all his games and even got to see him play a few times. I knew the kid had the goods, just didn't know if he'd get a chance considering the good QB prospects Texas has and the fact that for the longest time we thought Vince was coming back.

And yes. . .Colt McCoy was the best player in the Big 12 considering the fact that he's a redshirt Freshman and he outplayed the other QBs in the league and schooled almost every defense he saw except for Ohio St. at the first of the year and ATM when he wasn't at 100%. And what would you know about what the OBs say? Are you a paying member? Are you secretly a Longhorn lover on the inside? Please, stop acting like you know what our fans think/act like/etc. Outside of OU sucks and ATM is weird you can't know for sure ANYTHING that Texas fans think. Oh yeah. . .and that Greg Davis should get the boot.

[LitanyofFury]

Originally posted by JakefootballGOD
and what quality wins does texas have this year?

neb on the road was a good one...but other than that...10 wins doesnt mean a thing in the small 12....come on dude...

you got beat by A&M and K state...and barley beat iowa a sub 500 ball culb...what a great season!

And pray tell who had a better one in the Big 12? We beat both teams in the championship game and we were one of the few Big 12 teams to actually win their bowl game. Who cares if you win the Big 12 championship if you go to the Fiesta Bowl and embarrass yourself by being the first team to lose to a mid-major in a BCS bowl?

Outside of the Big 12 I can only think of a few teams who could say they had better seasons. USC (even tho they dropped 2 like we did to inferior competition), Boise St., LSU, Louisville (even tho if they played in any other conference they would have lost 3 or more), Wisconsin since they only lost 1, and then of course Florida. Outside of those teams Texas had the most successful year and if not for the Baby-Faced Assassin getting hurt, we'd probably have won 12 games and notched another BCS win even tho the game with the Smurfs would have been very tough.

[JakefootballGOD]

who did texas loose to again...and who did lsu loose to....dont ever compare those teams again...LSU would stomp texas and i mean stomp...texas performance in the huge bowl game they went to...was pretty close to embarssing too...come on man!!!

just face it texas was weak this year!!!!

[LitanyofFury]

Originally posted by JakefootballGOD
who did texas loose to again...and who did lsu loose to....dont ever compare those teams again...LSU would stomp texas and i mean stomp...texas performance in the huge bowl game they went to...was pretty close to embarssing too...come on man!!!

just face it texas was weak this year!!!!

Man, you're dense. I never compared them. I said that outside of LSU and those other top teams, Texas performed better than anyone ELSE. Thus, I compared Texas to the "rest of the pack."

And LSU got "stomped" by Florida who played close games against teams like Vanderbilt the ENTIRE year and they got beat by Auburn who wasn't exactly stellar the entire season either. LSU was damn good. . .but beating down the Irish, especially in a bowl game, isn't exactly an impossible feat these days.

The facts are that Texas suffered some major injuries on the defensive side of the ball, especially in the Linebacking corp. Thus, the secondary had to support the run the entire year and they had to do it with some true freshmen like Deon Beasley and some so-so players like Palmer and Foster at times during the season. Thus, the defense was never as dominant as it should have been. Same thing for the offensive line when Dockery went down which forced Blaylock inside to play guard and for the Horns to have to play Ulatowski out at right tackle. I'm not making excuses for them, but the Horns played admirably considering the obstacles they had to overcome. And if you think 10 wins is weak I'd like to know which team you're a fan of. . .because outside of Texas NO team in the NCAA has been able to sustain that kind of winning in the past decade.

Don't let a little thing like facts get in the way of your prejudice there bud!

[AggieJohn]

Originally posted by JakefootballGOD
who did texas loose to again...and who did lsu loose to....dont ever compare those teams again...LSU would stomp texas and i mean stomp...texas performance in the huge bowl game they went to...was pretty close to embarssing too...come on man!!!

just face it texas was weak this year!!!! i agree, i think it shows how much one recruit can change a team

[JakefootballGOD]

aggiejohn...this might be the first time we have ever agreed on a subject...BUT YES YOUR RIGHT!!!!

[LitanyofFury]

Originally posted by JakefootballGOD
aggiejohn...this might be the first time we have ever agreed on a subject...BUT YES YOUR RIGHT!!!!

Hate to nit-pick, but YOU'RE a hoot.

[pirate4state]

blah, blah, blah, blah.....

moving on.....

:rolleyes: