Breaking News: Minimum Wage increased [Archive]

AggieJohn

01-10-2007, 06:05 PM

WASHINGTON - The House of Representatives voted Wednesday to raise the federal minimum wage from $5.15 an hour to $7.25 by 2009, giving millions of poor Americans who work their best prospects in a decade to earn higher standards of living.

The legislation, which passed 315 to 116, doesn't include tax relief for small businesses, which President Bush says must be part of any increase he signs. Many Republicans say any such wage hike must be matched by incentives for small-business employers, particularly in the restaurant industry, which they say could lose the most when the minimum wage is raised.

Senate Democrats are expected to include some tax breaks in their version of the legislation in coming weeks and to urge House Democrats to go along, despite objections from liberal lawmakers and the AFL-CIO, in order to clear the Senate and win Bush's signature.

"It's very important we pass a minimum wage - it's also important that small businesses thrive in this country," said Sen. Claire McCaskill, D-Mo., one of the new crop of moderate-to-conservative Democrats who won election in November.

Americans working full-time jobs at the federal minimum wage would see their salaries rise under the proposed increase from about $11,000 a year to $15,000.

Democrats, back in control of Congress after a dozen years, see the minimum-wage increase as a key statement of their priorities. It's both a symbol to voters of the Democrats' ability to move legislation that Republicans bottled up for years and a reward to labor unions, a key constituency group for their party. It's also an idea overwhelmingly supported by Americans, including higher earners, polls show.

"This is a matter of fairness. This is a matter of human decency. This is a matter of human dignity," said Rep. John Lewis, D-Ga., a noted leader of the `60s civil rights movement. "It is time Congress actually reflects the will of the American people."

Rep. Jeb Hensarling, R-Texas, chairman of the Republican Study Committee, said "lucky" workers would see their pay rise to $7.25 an hour, but he predicted, "Many more will have their hours cut, many will have their benefits cut, and many will lose their jobs."

Rep. Wally Herger, R-Calif., called the legislation "detrimental to small-business growth and job creation."

The last time Congress increased the minimum wage was in 1997, and the nation's unemployment rate fell in each of the next three years as the economy boomed.

In the 10 years since the minimum wage was raised, lawmakers increased their own pay by more than $31,000, to $165,200 last year. And more than half of the states have adopted their own minimum-wage increases.

The proposed increase would affect an estimated 5.6 million workers, largely those employed in service industries and likely to vote Democrat: younger Americans, Hispanics, blacks and women.

It also could pressure employers to raise the salaries of more than 7 million other workers earning slightly more than the minimum wage, economists predict.

Democrats noted that Wal-Mart's chairman came out recently in support of the increase, saying the discount chain's customers have too little income.

Anna Burger, secretary-treasurer of the SEIU, a union representing service workers, applauded the House vote, saying, "We are pleased to see the House is listening to working families and acting on the issues that matter most to them."

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., said that if minimum-wage increases had kept up with the cost of living, the current minimum wage would be $9.05 an hour.

pirateman98

01-10-2007, 06:07 PM

No John, it is going up to 7.25 per hour by 2009. It passed the House and moves to the Senate.

Ps. I saw your first message and you had put 7.50....sorry, didn't know you were correcting it.

crzyjournalist03

01-10-2007, 06:11 PM

To me, every time minimum wage is increased, it's a joke....everybody else demands raises to offset the minimum wage increase, and then all the prices rise...it's a guaranteed way to bring inflation IMO.

AggieJohn

01-10-2007, 06:13 PM

it should be around 9 bucks

Blastoderm55

01-10-2007, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by AggieJohn
it should be around 9 bucks

That's a bit much. An evening at Sonic would be awfully expensive! :eek:

AggieJohn

01-10-2007, 06:18 PM

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
That's a bit much. An evening at Sonic would be awfully expensive! :eek: read the last line of the report

KTA

01-10-2007, 06:23 PM

That's a bit much. An evening at Sonic would be awfully expensive!

Shoot it already is:mad:

Blastoderm55

01-10-2007, 06:24 PM

Minimum wage has always been below the cost of living, hence the Dem push for a living wage, which would be well over $10 an hour for a typical family of four. As the wage hasn't kept up with inflation, a rise in price for services and goods is to be expected as stockholders won't want to lose out on the fat profits they've been reaping for the past decade. Sadly, they are the ones who control this. I'm torn on the issue of a living wage, because I truly do fear its repercussions.

Hansum Stranger

01-10-2007, 06:30 PM

The middle class will be the one's most affected by a rise in the minimum wages. The cost of goods will rise to offset the wage increase and most middle class families won't get a a raise to help offset the increase in prices.

jason

01-10-2007, 06:36 PM

say goodbye to the 'dollar menu'

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

01-10-2007, 06:46 PM

As far as the inflation goes, I saw every single person on here sit idly by and say nothing when the prices of gas, milk, eggs, produce, etc. went up, but as soon as we try to help out our fellow Americans, it is suddenly wrong. Let your big businesses make their record profits while Americans are living below the poverty line, because a family who is supported only by minimum wage jobs does just that. Whatever happened to help out your common man? There were people who were being underpaid for what they do, and once it is finally brought to a stop, all I see is pissing an moaning. Wake up.

DU_stud04

01-10-2007, 06:46 PM

so i wont get that same 2.10 bump? :(

jason

01-10-2007, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
I saw every single person on here sit idly by and say nothing when the prices of gas went up :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

i think EVERYBODY said something about gas prices.....

Hansum Stranger

01-10-2007, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by DU_stud04
so i wont get that same 2.10 bump? :(

If you already make above the new wage, then it's up to your company to decide if they want to give an increase. It is not mandatory for the company to have to do that.

DU_stud04

01-10-2007, 06:50 PM

i agree in helping out a "brother" but when the majority of people working these min wage jobs are younger people who decided not to go do something with thier lifes and are staying with their roomaites (parents) for free........then i dont believe in throwing them a bone. what about the people who have gone out and got their degrees and cant find work?

bulldogman06

01-10-2007, 06:53 PM

I am not going to say that minimum wage shouldnt be raised, but not so much! Raising it like that hurts the hard working people. Im not sayin everyone who works minimun wage is lazy, but most are. Everyone can get a better job. Everyone can go to college if they want. If they want. some people can not go to college and still be succesful, but that is beside the point. the point is that raising it this much helps the lazy people who do nothing and want to take the easy way, and hurts the guy who is starting his own business, just got outta college, worked hard, and is now having to pay the guy who waters the plants 7.25 an hour when he shouldnt be earning that much. it hurts the people who want to employ someone for a small job but cant because you have to start paying them more than they are worth. and it makes the small business raise prices to afford the other employees if they do decide that they are worth the money.

CenTexSports

01-10-2007, 06:56 PM

You have missed maybe the biggest impact on the economy. Every major union contract has a clause in it to meet or excede all minimum wage increases. So a union person in Detroit will be getting at least a couple of dollars raise on top of any other negoiated raises. This is a huge impact on the economy also.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

01-10-2007, 07:00 PM

Originally posted by DU_stud04
i agree in helping out a "brother" but when the majority of people working these min wage jobs are younger people who decided not to go do something with thier lifes and are staying with their roomaites (parents) for free........then i dont believe in throwing them a bone. what about the people who have gone out and got their degrees and cant find work?

I can agree with what you're saying, but those younger people aren't going to be living with their parents forever. I know people who didn't go out and get their degrees because they couldn't and life took them down another path. They were independent and their parents couldn't afford to send them to college and once they got out in the real world on their own, they had to support themselves. My father is one of those people, and granted he's not making minimum wage anymore, how is it fair when a man or woman with not other options has to go out and work and get underpaid? You're targeting a specific group of people, and you're exactly right in your assessment at the same time. It is comparable to people screwing the system over on welfare, but it is for the benefit of the majority. Sometimes in life you have to take some good with the bad, and I feel much better knowing the fact that a man and a woman with a couple of kids, both making minimum wage, will be better suited to buy their children food and clothing. There is too much poverty in America, and not all of it is self-induced. There are a lot of people out there working their fingers to the bone and trying to scrape by. Until you have done that on your own, don't try to take away from them because there are coat-tail riders. People like that are everywhere, but that is a fact of life. You're punishing everyone by keeping minimum wage down, not just the lazy people who will amount to very little in their lifetime.

BILLYFRED0000

01-10-2007, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
As far as the inflation goes, I saw every single person on here sit idly by and say nothing when the prices of gas, milk, eggs, produce, etc. went up, but as soon as we try to help out our fellow Americans, it is suddenly wrong. Let your big businesses make their record profits while Americans are living below the poverty line, because a family who is supported only by minimum wage jobs does just that. Whatever happened to help out your common man? There were people who were being underpaid for what they do, and once it is finally brought to a stop, all I see is pissing an moaning. Wake up.

You ought to stick to football. Unless you can site something that backs up your point that is not statistical garbage. The simple truth is that people are poor or not and in many cases it is because of choices they make. Throw in illegal immigration that artificially depresses wages and then throw in only modest inflation and you get a bunch of crap. No one can prove anything except that we have poverty in this country and much of it comes from south of the border. The minimum wage will never pass nor should it. The government has no business telling business what they should pay their employees. Or to put the shoe on the other foot, suppose the gov tells you that you have to take a 30 percent cut in pay to fund the living wage, how would you feel?

wedo

01-10-2007, 07:07 PM

wedo

01-10-2007, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
I can agree with what you're saying, but those younger people aren't going to be living with their parents forever. I know people who didn't go out and get their degrees because they couldn't and life took them down another path. They were independent and their parents couldn't afford to send them to college and once they got out in the real world on their own, they had to support themselves. My father is one of those people, and granted he's not making minimum wage anymore, how is it fair when a man or woman with not other options has to go out and work and get underpaid? You're targeting a specific group of people, and you're exactly right in your assessment at the same time. It is comparable to people screwing the system over on welfare, but it is for the benefit of the majority. Sometimes in life you have to take some good with the bad, and I feel much better knowing the fact that a man and a woman with a couple of kids, both making minimum wage, will be better suited to buy their children food and clothing. There is too much poverty in America, and not all of it is self-induced. There are a lot of people out there working their fingers to the bone and trying to scrape by. Until you have done that on your own, don't try to take away from them because there are coat-tail riders. People like that are everywhere, but that is a fact of life. You're punishing everyone by keeping minimum wage down, not just the lazy people who will amount to very little in their lifetime.

I don't think anyone could say this much better!! Taking the words right out of my head

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

01-10-2007, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
You ought to stick to football. Unless you can site something that backs up your point that is not statistical garbage. The simple truth is that people are poor or not and in many cases it is because of choices they make. Throw in illegal immigration that artificially depresses wages and then throw in only modest inflation and you get a bunch of crap. No one can prove anything except that we have poverty in this country and much of it comes from south of the border. The minimum wage will never pass nor should it. The government has no business telling business what they should pay their employees. Or to put the shoe on the other foot, suppose the gov tells you that you have to take a 30 percent cut in pay to fund the living wage, how would you feel?

Or, let us have corporate billionaires while people in our nation are going hungy. I'm with you on illegal immigration 100%, send them back and let us strengthen our borders and our economy. If you want, when I go to HEB later on, I can take some snapshots of how much milk is and post it on here. Either you're not eating, or you're failing to see that the prices of everything have gone up due to inflation, and in fact the argument. I never said anything about the living wage, only that I think it is time for Americans to be paid a little more for what they do. AMERICANS. Nowhere did I say illegal immigrants. Congress has given themselves pay raises over the past ten years+, and minimum wage has not gone up. Inflation has, which means that the $5.15 an hour isn't worth as much as it used to be. Can you grasp that concept? It means that businesses are actually saving money due to inflation and paying their employees less. Did you catch that one too? Have you even considered that idea? You can go as far as saying that an increase in minimum wage has been brought about to offset the increasing inflation rate. WHAT A CONCEPT! Maybe you should stick to not posting until you have some common knowledge about the situation at hand. Have a great night, and I'll catch you on another thread.

pirate4state

01-10-2007, 07:16 PM

HI BBDE!!!!!! :D :D :D :D

p.s. I haven't read any of these posts, but when I get time I will...I just know I won't be disappointed!!! :p :p

BILLYFRED0000

01-10-2007, 07:22 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Or, let us have corporate billionaires while people in our nation are going hungy. I'm with you on illegal immigration 100%, send them back and let us strengthen our borders and our economy. If you want, when I go to HEB later on, I can take some snapshots of how much milk is and post it on here. Either you're not eating, or you're failing to see that the prices of everything have gone up due to inflation, and in fact the argument. I never said anything about the living wage, only that I think it is time for Americans to be paid a little more for what they do. AMERICANS. Nowhere did I say illegal immigrants. Congress has given themselves pay raises over the past ten years+, and minimum wage has not gone up. Inflation has, which means that the $5.15 an hour isn't worth as much as it used to be. Can you grasp that concept? It means that businesses are actually saving money due to inflation and paying their employees less. Did you catch that one too? Have you even considered that idea? You can go as far as saying that an increase in minimum wage has been brought about to offset the increasing inflation rate. WHAT A CONCEPT! Maybe you should stick to not posting until you have some common knowledge about the situation at hand. Have a great night, and I'll catch you on another thread.

You missed the point. IN a capitalistic society that wishes to remain free the last thing you want is for the government to tell you how to live. Throwing money at it with government regulation is the road to perdition and is the cause of most of the issues that you wish to rail about. When you refer to corporate billionaires you fall directly into the trap that liberals have in mind which is class warfare while behind the scenes they support every single thing which maintains this seperation including but not restricted to the corp billionaires and unions and government telling you how to live.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

01-10-2007, 07:30 PM

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
You missed the point. IN a capitalistic society that wishes to remain free the last thing you want is for the government to tell you how to live. Throwing money at it with government regulation is the road to perdition and is the cause of most of the issues that you wish to rail about. When you refer to corporate billionaires you fall directly into the trap that liberals have in mind which is class warfare while behind the scenes they support every single thing which maintains this seperation including but not restricted to the corp billionaires and unions and government telling you how to live.

Well, let me give you a little history lesson. There is no such thing as free enterprise. As long as there are tariffs, labor unions, minimum wage, antitrust laws, the Environmental Protection Agency, etc., there never will be. The idea that you bring up is called laissez faire, and it obviously failed. Don't believe me, look at The Great Depression. A simple brush up on your history would have made you realize as much before you once again stepped into this argument. Welfare, social security, medicare, and medicaid are just a list of goverment programs to combat poverty. There have been leaders in the position to take these away, but knew it was for the best of our society. They weren't liberals, just people who knew that it was their responsibility to do the right thing. History will show you that more people agree with the ideas that I am representing than the ones you are. You are in the minority, and also very vague and uninformed. As I suggested earlier, you should not post about this until you present that you have an understanding of the situation at hand.

DU_stud04

01-10-2007, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
I can agree with what you're saying, but those younger people aren't going to be living with their parents forever. I know people who didn't go out and get their degrees because they couldn't and life took them down another path. They were independent and their parents couldn't afford to send them to college and once they got out in the real world on their own, they had to support themselves. My father is one of those people, and granted he's not making minimum wage anymore, how is it fair when a man or woman with not other options has to go out and work and get underpaid? You're targeting a specific group of people, and you're exactly right in your assessment at the same time. It is comparable to people screwing the system over on welfare, but it is for the benefit of the majority. Sometimes in life you have to take some good with the bad, and I feel much better knowing the fact that a man and a woman with a couple of kids, both making minimum wage, will be better suited to buy their children food and clothing. There is too much poverty in America, and not all of it is self-induced. There are a lot of people out there working their fingers to the bone and trying to scrape by. Until you have done that on your own, don't try to take away from them because there are coat-tail riders. People like that are everywhere, but that is a fact of life. You're punishing everyone by keeping minimum wage down, not just the lazy people who will amount to very little in their lifetime.

haha, i knew i could get you to write something good, great write up as usual;)

AggieJohn

01-10-2007, 07:44 PM

BILLYFRED0000

01-10-2007, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Well, let me give you a little history lesson. There is no such thing as free enterprise. As long as there are tariffs, labor unions, minimum wage, antitrust laws, the Environmental Protection Agency, etc., there never will be. The idea that you bring up is called laissez faire, and it obviously failed. Don't believe me, look at The Great Depression. A simple brush up on your history would have made you realize as much before you once again stepped into this argument. Welfare, social security, medicare, and medicaid are just a list of goverment programs to combat poverty. There have been leaders in the position to take these away, but knew it was for the best of our society. They weren't liberals, just people who knew that it was their responsibility to do the right thing. History will show you that more people agree with the ideas that I am representing than the ones you are. You are in the minority, and also very vague and uninformed. As I suggested earlier, you should not post about this until you present that you have an understanding of the situation at hand.

I don't think you follow me. I do not suggest that some government is a bad thing. I suggest that the more you regulate the more you drive the cost and the more it takes a society to live.
To continue to prop up their version of society( and believe me it is their version) the liberals want to believe that you and I are too stupid to take care of ourselves at all. I think you could fall into that category because you don't see what I am talking about at all. I personally think I can take care of my self and that is the great divide. You want Mommy(gov) to make sure everything is all right while I left mommy a long time ago. If I cannot make it on my own there are always alternatives in the private sector or just marry a rich girl. :D

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

01-10-2007, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
I don't think you follow me. I do not suggest that some government is a bad thing. I suggest that the more you regulate the more you drive the cost and the more it takes a society to live.
To continue to prop up their version of society( and believe me it is their version) the liberals want to believe that you and I are too stupid to take care of ourselves at all. I think you could fall into that category because you don't see what I am talking about at all. I personally think I can take care of my self and that is the great divide. You want Mommy(gov) to make sure everything is all right while I left mommy a long time ago. If I cannot make it on my own there are always alternatives in the private sector or just marry a rich girl. :D

There you go again, throwing out that term "liberal." Go ahead, point the finger, but economic programs such as minimum wage are what helped drag America out of the Depression and has done things to help keep us out of it again. Putting food in the mouths of our children is never a bad thing, but I guess that the 8 year old little boy or girl who goes to bed hungry every night should be punished to suit your beliefs and your idea that everyone should be self-sufficient and big business should do whatever they can to maximize profits. Let us forget protecting worker's rights. You still have yet to bring a feasible argument to the table, only broadcasting the fact that you support big business. With ideas like this, I'm sure that you support child labor, too. I bet that you're fully against people earning overtime wages, too, huh? Man, wise up and look past yourself to the people in America who need help. It would also be great if you could refrain from throwing the term liberal out there. Thanks and Gig 'Em.

RMAC

01-10-2007, 08:53 PM

The proposed increase would affect an estimated 5.6 million workers, largely those employed in service industries and likely to vote Democrat: younger Americans, Hispanics, blacks and women.

This will help Americans in the short term, but again, it will hit the middle class the hardest. Now, yes, the Democrat controlled House did this and it will be good now, but it will take a toll and like I said, it will more than likely hit the middle class, those that will more than likely not get a pay increase, the hardest. The point I'm making with that quote above is that it looks good now, but this is one thing the voters will remember in 2008. And it was written by a newspaper in Washington, so let's not say that it was written by a conservative writer.

injuredinmelee

01-10-2007, 08:58 PM

well here goes the prices on everything skyrocketing. Of course the dems that run the place now ust want to make the people happy with fluff and feel good ideas because they know that most people that vote democrat have no idea of the consequences.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

01-10-2007, 09:06 PM

Originally posted by RMAC
This will help Americans in the short term, but again, it will hit the middle class the hardest. Now, yes, the Democrat controlled House did this and it will be good now, but it will take a toll and like I said, it will more than likely hit the middle class, those that will more than likely not get a pay increase, the hardest. The point I'm making with that quote above is that it looks good now, but this is one thing the voters will remember in 2008. And it was written by a newspaper in Washington, so let's not say that it was written by a conservative writer.

We had a dissolving middle class long before this. Just because some analyst says that this is going to hurt the middle class doesn't mean that it is. This was meant to help the lower and middle class, and it will, contrary to what Fox News might be saying. (Not saying you got it from there, either, just making the point.)

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

01-10-2007, 09:09 PM

Originally posted by injuredinmelee
well here goes the prices on everything skyrocketing. Of course the dems that run the place now ust want to make the people happy with fluff and feel good ideas because they know that most people that vote democrat have no idea of the consequences.

As though the prices of everything haven't been steadily increasing over the past 7 years... Have you been living under a rock? Complain about people being paid just amounts for their labor, but sit back idly and say nothing when our economy is in shambles and inflation is on the steady rise.

CenTexSports

01-10-2007, 09:15 PM

OK, one more. Most of the democratic leadership is old money and it is a bad situation when the interest rate is low. They need at least 7% interest to maintain their money, that way they don't have to work for it. And the higher the interest, the better for them.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

01-10-2007, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by CenTexSports
OK, one more. Most of the democratic leadership is old money and it is a bad situation when the interest rate is low. They need at least 7% interest to maintain their money, that way they don't have to work for it. And the higher the interest, the better for them.

Clarify your anticedents. Who is this "they" you speak of. Also, the Federal Reserve is the one who controls the interest rate. Just making sure you know that. ;)

bullfrog_alumni_02

01-10-2007, 09:30 PM

i do agree with the idea of people making more money, but i dont agree with how they are doing it. IMHO, we need to fix our inflation problem to make the dollars we do have worth more. puting more out there iwll in the end only hurt ourselves, because businesses, such as resturaunts and manufacturers will have to raise the cost of the goods they produce (which by my best guess is where the majority of the minimum wage folks are earning an honest dollar) in order to match the rising cost of that to pay their employees. i know we live in a day and age in america where we expect everything to work our way and to never have to lift a finger to earn anything, but we need to realize our country is the way it is today because of people being willing to make the sacrifices required to keep it that way. if we dont willingly make the sacrifices, they will most likely be made for us. I hope and pray that my wife and I are not around to see the day when that happens, but who knows...the next black tuesday could be next week!!

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

01-10-2007, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by bullfrog_alumni_02
i do agree with the idea of people making more money, but i dont agree with how they are doing it. IMHO, we need to fix our inflation problem to make the dollars we do have worth more. puting more out there iwll in the end only hurt ourselves, because businesses, such as resturaunts and manufacturers will have to raise the cost of the goods they produce (which by my best guess is where the majority of the minimum wage folks are earning an honest dollar) in order to match the rising cost of that to pay their employees. i know we live in a day and age in america where we expect everything to work our way and to never have to lift a finger to earn anything, but we need to realize our country is the way it is today because of people being willing to make the sacrifices required to keep it that way. if we dont willingly make the sacrifices, they will most likely be made for us. I hope and pray that my wife and I are not around to see the day when that happens, but who knows...the next black tuesday could be next week!!

Hey man, good post. I like it. :thumbsup:

DU_stud04

01-10-2007, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by bullfrog_alumni_02
but who knows...the next black tuesday could be next week!! its about that time isnt it?:thinking: good post

eagles_victory

01-10-2007, 10:09 PM

GOFOR2

01-10-2007, 10:14 PM

Originally posted by AggieJohn
it should be around 9 bucks

Are you kidding? If you want a higher minimum wage, get an education.

eagles_victory

01-10-2007, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by GOFOR2
Are you kidding? If you want a higher minimum wage, get an education. some people just dont understand that like gary said not everyone can get an education

SintonFan

01-10-2007, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by AggieJohn
it should be around 9 bucks
.
You are clueless to real life and market forces.:hand:

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

01-10-2007, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by GOFOR2
Are you kidding? If you want a higher minimum wage, get an education.

Yeah, tell that to the people who lack the intelligence or cannot afford to go to college. Not everyone can be as fortunate as others, and I consider myself lucky that I have the opportunity to go to college and better myself and understand there are people who would go to hell and back to be in my shoes right now.

GOFOR2

01-10-2007, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by eagles_victory
some people just dont understand that like gary said not everyone can get an education

Raising the minimum wage lessens the demand for workers in those areas with workers earning minimum wage. All this means more workers who cannot work anywhere else will fewer and fewer opportunities as employers (usually small time) cannot hire on more help or cannot afford to keep the help they have. Economics 101.

SintonFan

01-10-2007, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by eagles_victory
some people just dont understand that like gary said not everyone can get an education
.
Yes, but everyone who is poor can get Government help(low-cost loans at the minimun). It takes effort. Don't blame the government if someone doesn't want to improve themself.

GOFOR2

01-10-2007, 10:24 PM

I say all this, but then you have other businesses like HEB who can afford to pay the hike, but even that affects the number of people they will hire, because hires are based on economics: Demand and Supply of Labor.

eagles_victory

01-10-2007, 10:26 PM

Originally posted by GOFOR2
I say all this, but then you have other businesses like HEB who can afford to pay the hike, but even that affects the number of people they will hire, because hires are based on economics: Demand and Supply of Labor. yea that was the first thing i said when i heard it. thanks for the lesson but i already passed Economics 101

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

01-10-2007, 10:26 PM

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
Yes, but everyone who is poor can get Government help(low-cost loans at the minimun). It takes effort. Don't blame the government if someone doesn't want to improve themself.

You act like this is a perfect world, and whatever a person wants is within their grasp, all they have to do is reach out and grab it. That is not the case, some people have a family started and can't go to college. Some people go overseas and protect our freedom, others just can't cut it in college and there isn't anything that is going to change that. This isn't the perfect world, but I can definately understand where you are coming from. Not everyone is in a position to make themselves better than a minimum wage job, and that is an unfortunate truth in life for some people. Giving them a little more buck for their work isn't necessarily a bad thing. It is a positive thing for families all across America. With proper management of our economy beforehand, we would not be in a position where the inflation is so high that we need to pay workers more to compensate for it. The prices of everything is going up, but the wages of employees is not. What does that say about our economy and the apprecation of employees?

GOFOR2

01-10-2007, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by eagles_victory
yea that was the first thing i said when i heard it. thanks for the lesson but i already passed Economics 101

Its actually Labor Economics 203.

GOFOR2

01-10-2007, 10:30 PM

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

01-10-2007, 10:31 PM

Originally posted by GOFOR2
I say all this, but then you have other businesses like HEB who can afford to pay the hike, but even that affects the number of people they will hire, because hires are based on economics: Demand and Supply of Labor.

Maybe we should start cutting jobs at the top. How about less management jobs with people making hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. Why not cut them first, that way we can hire more workers who actually do the tasks that make the businesses run to offset them? Let us start by cutting the jobs at the top to create more jobs at the bottom, that way we can compensate for this increase in minimum wage, because you know the upper-level employees are going to want more money too. Since you're paying them two to three times as much as the workers making minimum wage, you can afford to lose three or four of them to hire more people. It would make the workplace run a lot smoother, with less paperwork and more productivity. That is a noble idea in my opinion, and a logical one at that, but do you really think management is going to allow that? Nope, they're going to get their pay raise and a hard-working American is going to lose a job.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

01-10-2007, 10:34 PM

Originally posted by GOFOR2
This is one way in which inflation spirals.

Inflation was spiraling out of control long before this was passed. If you want to complain about inflation, combat it from the source that fueled it long before this.

lepfan

01-10-2007, 10:35 PM

Originally posted by GOFOR2
Are you kidding? If you want a higher minimum wage, get an education. In many instances education has nothing to do with your pay. I have a college degree with about 30 hours of graduate level classes....my son has an entry level job making almost what I am making a year. There is a possiblity of him getting another job soon (again entry level) and his starting pay would be what I was making teaching in Texas 3 years ago! Sad for me....

Some people reach their potential at "do you want fries with that". Others start at that position and build job skills while moving ahead in life. In some cases extended education will get you ahead, in others it just takes a brain with the will to do the best with the ability you have.

We have to have burger flippers, ditch diggers, etc. Not everyone can be CEO of McDonalds. You get out of life what you put into life!!!

Txbroadcaster

01-10-2007, 10:37 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
You act like this is a perfect world, and whatever a person wants is within their grasp, all they have to do is reach out and grab it.

Your right this is not a perfect world, but you know what hard work can do alot. If someone is not cut out for College then they can go to a trade school of MANY different types..or that can work their tails off to work there way up the chain inside the fast food place they work. The big question is how long are they in that "dead end" job.

I am a college graduate..but I got my degree at 29 years old AFTER a divorce and I have a daughter. I worked two jobs PLUS did the required work of my field of study which meant many hours outside of class busting my hump. I spent many days on less than 2-3 hours of sleep, but I did my work and my school work.

I am not agianst the raise, I am agianst people not wanting to better themselves and just about EVERYBODY can find a niche in the job world and bust their hump to go up even if just a little ways up.

But as you stated this is not a perfect world, and not everyone can be helped by others. Sometimes they have to make the decision to get off the mat themselves

SintonFan

01-10-2007, 10:39 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
You act like this is a perfect world, and whatever a person wants is within their grasp, all they have to do is reach out and grab it. That is not the case, some people have a family started and can't go to college. Some people go overseas and protect our freedom, others just can't cut it in college and there isn't anything that is going to change that. This isn't the perfect world, but I can definately understand where you are coming from. Not everyone is in a position to make themselves better than a minimum wage job, and that is an unfortunate truth in life for some people. Giving them a little more buck for their work isn't necessarily a bad thing. It is a positive thing for families all across America. With proper management of our economy beforehand, we would not be in a position where the inflation is so high that we need to pay workers more to compensate for it. The prices of everything is going up, but the wages of employees is not. What does that say about our economy and the apprecation of employees?
.
I had two kids and went back to college. It's not a perfect world and we are not perfect people. Why do you question what I posted? Why defend those who most likely just want a handout instead of a "hand up"? Jeez, just go ahead and blame Bush for everything.:rolleyes: Where are you getting info that the economy is so terrible even now? It's on a downturn but it aint all that bad. Gimme some links pointing out where everything RIGHT NOW is going up. I just paid $1150 for something that would have cost over $50,000 ten years ago.:kiss:

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

01-10-2007, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Your right this is not a perfect world, but you know what hard work can do alot. If someone is not cut out for College then they can go to a trade school of MANY different types..or that can work their tails off to work there way up the chain inside the fast food place they work. The big question is how long are they in that "dead end" job.

I am a college graduate..but I got my degree at 29 years old AFTER a divorce and I have a daughter. I worked two jobs PLUS did the required work of my field of study which meant many hours outside of class busting my hump. I spent many days on less than 2-3 hours of sleep, but I did my work and my school work.

I am not agianst the raise, I am agianst people not wanting to better themselves and just about EVERYBODY can find a niche in the job world and bust their hump to go up even if just a little ways up.

But as you stated this is not a perfect world, and not everyone can be helped by others. Sometimes they have to make the decision to get off the mat themselves

You're exactly right, and I understand completely where you are coming from.

SintonFan

01-10-2007, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Inflation was spiraling out of control long before this was passed. If you want to complain about inflation, combat it from the source that fueled it long before this.
.
What proof do you have to back this up?:thinking:

SintonFan

01-10-2007, 10:43 PM

BBDE, I'll get back with you tomorrow on this. I gotta do some more work to justify my $15+ hourly wage.:D

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

01-10-2007, 10:43 PM

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
I had two kids and went back to college. It's not a perfect world and we are not perfect people. Why do you question what I posted? Why defend those who most likely just want a handout instead of a "hand up"? Jeez, just go ahead and blame Bush for everything.:rolleyes: Where are you getting info that the economy is so terrible even now? It's on a downturn but it aint all that bad. Gimme some links pointing out where everything RIGHT NOW is going up. I just paid $1150 for something that would have cost over $50,000 ten years ago.:kiss:

I don't have to give you links Daniel, I know you're smart enough to understand my argument, which was broad. As far as your last statement, you're right, if you're talking about computers, microwaves, a new Dodge Viper....;)

As far as the economy being poor, look at the economy now and compare to that of oh, let's say, 10 years ago, and tell me that this one is superb.

Oh yeah, and it is all Bush's fault. Happy? :D ;)

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

01-10-2007, 10:44 PM

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
What proof do you have to back this up?:thinking:

Go to the grocery store. Compare the prices today to that of ten years ago. Tell me that inflation is not the reason that prices have gone up and justify it, and then I will stop making that assertion. ;)

SintonFan

01-10-2007, 10:45 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
I don't have to give you links Daniel, I know you're smart enough to understand my argument, which was broad. As far as your last statement, you're right, if you're talking about computers, microwaves, a new Dodge Viper....;)

As far as the economy being poor, look at the economy now and compare to that of oh, let's say, 10 years ago, and tell me that this one is superb.

Oh yeah, and it is all Bush's fault. Happy? :D ;)
.
10 years ago the forces that fueled that market bursted into the "High Tech Bubble". How did that work out?:p
.
And yes I'm too stupid to know where you get your info(I can't read your mind lol).

lepfan

01-10-2007, 10:47 PM

This is going 'you know where' QUICK...

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

01-10-2007, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
10 years ago the forces that fueled that market bursted into the "High Tech Bubble". How did that work out?:p
.
And yes I'm too stupid to know where you get your info(I can't read your mind lol).

You can't? Maybe I had you confused with some other guy. I don't get my info from any websites, I just look at the way times have changed. Even with the burst of the high-tech bubble, the prices of things were nothing compared to what they are now.

GOFOR2

01-10-2007, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by lepfan
In many instances education has nothing to do with your pay. I have a college degree with about 30 hours of graduate level classes....my son has an entry level job making almost what I am making a year. There is a possiblity of him getting another job soon (again entry level) and his starting pay would be what I was making teaching in Texas 3 years ago! Sad for me....

Some people reach their potential at "do you want fries with that". Others start at that position and build job skills while moving ahead in life. In some cases extended education will get you ahead, in others it just takes a brain with the will to do the best with the ability you have.

We have to have burger flippers, ditch diggers, etc. Not everyone can be CEO of McDonalds. You get out of life what you put into life!!!

education does not always mean 4 years of college.

lepfan

01-10-2007, 10:52 PM

Originally posted by GOFOR2
education does not always mean 4 years of college. I do agree with that....that is pretty much what I was trying to say...just did not do a good job of it obviously. In my post I was referring to education a "college degree"..sorry for the confusion.

You will be educated to the extent you allow yourself to be educated!!! (I tell this to my kids all the time)

SintonFan

01-10-2007, 10:53 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
You can't? Maybe I had you confused with some other guy. I don't get my info from any websites, I just look at the way times have changed. Even with the burst of the high-tech bubble, the prices of things were nothing compared to what they are now.
.
Yes, but if the "High Tech bubble" had never burst we'd probably pay a cool quarter million for our new Hummers H3's paying $6 a gallon for gas.:D
.
G-man, I've watched CNN and some other "info networks" and they will give an ulcer to acheive ratings imho.;)
.
Egads! I gotta get back to work! lol

GOFOR2

01-10-2007, 10:55 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Maybe we should start cutting jobs at the top. How about less management jobs with people making hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. Why not cut them first, that way we can hire more workers who actually do the tasks that make the businesses run to offset them? Let us start by cutting the jobs at the top to create more jobs at the bottom, that way we can compensate for this increase in minimum wage, because you know the upper-level employees are going to want more money too. Since you're paying them two to three times as much as the workers making minimum wage, you can afford to lose three or four of them to hire more people. It would make the workplace run a lot smoother, with less paperwork and more productivity. That is a noble idea in my opinion, and a logical one at that, but do you really think management is going to allow that? Nope, they're going to get their pay raise and a hard-working American is going to lose a job.

I cant believe I am responding to such an irrational argument. But about your upper level employees...these are the brains fo the companies and the people who drive the ideas for profit. Money is what makes the business world go. Its who can come up with ideas to make more money, not about who can physically move the product. If you are ticked about their penisons....these are amounts that were negotiated long before the person decided to leave the business. Now for other unscrupulous individuals such as the World Com and Enron guys, well they should fry. But you get paid what your worth, for what you produce, and in our post-industrial economy, that doesnt always mean how hard you physically work. I am not agreeing with it but that is the ways things work.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

01-10-2007, 10:55 PM

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
Yes, but if the "High Tech bubble" had never burst we'd probably pay a cool quarter million for our new Hummers H3's paying $6 a gallon for gas.:D
.
G-man, I've watched CNN and some other "info networks" and they will give an ulcer to acheive ratings imho.;)
.
Egads! I gotta get back to work! lol

Better than watching Fox News, if you ask me. The only person I will watch, IF I watch CNN is Lou Dobbs. I like him and agree with him the majority of the time. I think he's more of a moderate than anything else, but that is just my opinion. I watch him once every two months, maybe.

GOFOR2

01-10-2007, 10:57 PM

Originally posted by lepfan
I do agree with that....that is pretty much what I was trying to say...just did not do a good job of it obviously. In my post I was referring to education a "college degree"..sorry for the confusion.

You will be educated to the extent you allow yourself to be educated!!! (I tell this to my kids all the time)

I understood you. I was just reiterating it for BBD.

SintonFan

01-10-2007, 10:59 PM

Mods, please don't shut this thread down. Heck! Make it a "sticky"!:D

pirate4state

01-10-2007, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by lepfan
This is going 'you know where' QUICK...

Where? I haven't read any of this stuff do I need to close it? I'm lazy and no one is paying me $5.15 to read it....so......:D

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

01-10-2007, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by GOFOR2
I understood you. I was just reiterating it for BBD.

Don't you reiterate me. :mad:

SintonFan

01-10-2007, 11:00 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Better than watching Fox News, if you ask me. The only person I will watch, IF I watch CNN is Lou Dobbs. I like him and agree with him the majority of the time. I think he's more of a moderate than anything else, but that is just my opinion. I watch him once every two months, maybe.
.
I don't watch Fox News.:p
.
ps. I get my news from 3ADownlow... j/k:D

GOFOR2

01-10-2007, 11:04 PM

This is a good thread. Alot of good arguments for and against and alot of theory and practical based arguments, but I have to go to bed. Peace.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

01-10-2007, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
I don't watch Fox News.:p
.
ps. I get my news from 3ADownlow... j/k:D

Lies, lies I say.

luvhoops34

01-10-2007, 11:13 PM

I think this is just like a lot of things the government does. It looks good on the outside but it will end up making people worse off in the long run because of inflation.

And I beg to disagree, but I am not responsible for making someone else a living wage. That is up to them. I don't pay taxes and work my butt off so somebody can slack and make minimum wage and then complain about it.

This will hurt all of us, in the pocketbook.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

01-10-2007, 11:15 PM

Originally posted by luvhoops34
I think this is just like a lot of things the government does. It looks good on the outside but it will end up making people worse off in the long run because of inflation.

And I beg to disagree, but I am not responsible for making someone else a living wage. That is up to them. I don't pay taxes and work my butt off so somebody can slack and make minimum wage and then complain about it.

This will hurt all of us, in the pocketbook.

Do you fully grasp the concept of inflation? Items cost more, and people are being paid less. This is an action of offsetting the inflation.

Txbroadcaster

01-10-2007, 11:17 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Do you fully grasp the concept of inflation? Items cost more, and people are being paid less. This is an action of offsetting the inflation.

ehh yes and no..in theory more money for the consumer is a good thing..BUT companies will offset the pay increase with increase in cost of products. That is the vicious circle inflation is. IT is easy to say hey 10 years ago this cost less...Well 20 years ago it cost less than it did 10 years ago. It not just inflation, it also has to do with supply and demand as well.

shankbear

01-10-2007, 11:19 PM

Small business forms the backbone of the American economy. Higher minimum wages for newer small business employees will cause those small businesses to hire fewer workers. It is a cycle. If the small businesses do not hire then what good is a higher minimum wage?

luvhoops34

01-10-2007, 11:22 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
ehh yes and no..in theory more money for the consumer is a good thing..BUT companies will offset the pay increase with increase in cost of products. That is the vicious circle inflation is. IT is easy to say hey 10 years ago this cost less...Well 20 years ago it cost less than it did 10 years ago. It not just inflation, it also has to do with supply and demand as well.

Thank you! There is one person who does not understand the concept of inflation and it's not me.

pirate4state

01-10-2007, 11:23 PM

Ok people. Stay on track and try not to kill each other. No one wants this closed, right? Play nice!

luvhoops34

01-10-2007, 11:24 PM

Originally posted by shankbear
Small business forms the backbone of the American economy. Higher minimum wages for newer small business employees will cause those small businesses to hire fewer workers. It is a cycle. If the small businesses do not hire then what good is a higher minimum wage?

Thank you, thank you, thank you! :D

GOFOR2

01-10-2007, 11:25 PM

Originally posted by pirate4state
Ok people. Stay on track and try not to kill each other. No one wants this closed, right? Play nice!

You still up?

pirate4state

01-10-2007, 11:28 PM

Originally posted by GOFOR2
You still up? Well, duh!! I thought you were going to bed??

GOFOR2

01-10-2007, 11:38 PM

Originally posted by pirate4state
Well, duh!! I thought you were going to bed??

you know me. i cant stay away from the drama.

Txbroadcaster

01-10-2007, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by luvhoops34
Thank you! There is one person who does not understand the concept of inflation and it's not me.

are you saying I dont or are u agreeing?

pirate4state

01-10-2007, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by GOFOR2
you know me. i cant stay away from the drama. i haven't bothered to read the thread. you can fill me in tomorrow.

luvhoops34

01-10-2007, 11:44 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
are you saying I dont or are u agreeing?

Hell I don't know! I would have to go back and re read the damm post you made. :D

If I thanked you, then I'm agreeing with you. :D

DU_stud04

01-10-2007, 11:45 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
You act like this is a perfect world, and whatever a person wants is within their grasp, all they have to do is reach out and grab it. everything is within your grasp, it all depends on how hard you truely want it, and as for not having the money for college,, there are thousands of dollars unclaimed in scholorships to help everyone, as well as government help systems ie. FAFSA. pretty much anyone these days can find the one way to go to college and having it paid for, its just the want, the desire to do so. im not stating on things for our parents, im talking about now.

back to say what isnt within our reach, are you to tell a 8 year old that he can not possibly be a millionaire by the age of 14? why, because you dont want to believe its possible or you dont want to see someone reach that level years before you if you ever get there? well there are 8 year olds out there with ideas and the will to do so, and i even just finished watching a show on about 5 differnt kids who made it big even before they could legally buy cigarretts. they wanted it, and they took it.

in "the land of oppritunity" there are many ways to become successful, its up to you to decided how your gonna travel the bumpy road and how to make travel easier from switching your tires from squares to circles.

sectionCwannabe

01-11-2007, 12:13 AM

the last time min. wage went up i didnt get a raise in pay from my company, but the cost of living started to rise. I had to get a decond job just to make up the difference in my budget. It hit my family pretty hard. Will do the same this time if it passes. Guess i better start looking for a min wage job for a second job so when it gets raised i kinda feel like i get something this time lol.

lepfan

01-11-2007, 12:20 AM

Originally posted by DU_stud04
everything is within your grasp, it all depends on how hard you truely want it, and as for not having the money for college,, there are thousands of dollars unclaimed in scholorships to help everyone, as well as government help systems ie. FAFSA. pretty much anyone these days can find the one way to go to college and having it paid for Could you send me that information....every avenue we went down had so many blocks...there were so many stipulations...age, race, parental income, etc....

I really would like to look into what you say is out there.

DU_stud04

01-11-2007, 12:25 AM

Originally posted by lepfan
Could you send me that information....every avenue we went down had so many blocks...there were so many stipulations...age, race, parental income, etc....

I really would like to look into what you say is out there. sure thing, ill try and find you some of the information i had when i was a senior in highschool might take a day or two

LH Panther Mom

01-11-2007, 12:34 AM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Go to the grocery store. Compare the prices today to that of ten years ago. Tell me that inflation is not the reason that prices have gone up and justify it, and then I will stop making that assertion. ;)
Compare a pay check now to a pay check ten years ago. Which came first.....the chicken or the egg? You raise minimum wages, cost of goods goes up because it costs the employer more to pay their employees. Sure, a person is "making" more money, but it is also costing them more to live on. So, again.....which came first.....the wage increase or the cost of goods? :nerd: :nerd:

JR2004

01-11-2007, 01:25 AM

Most humorous take I've seen on this issue came from Orangebloods. It was posted by a guy named Bevobus.

"Sooner fans are getting a payraise!"

DU_stud04

01-11-2007, 01:28 AM

Originally posted by JR2004
Most humorous take I've seen on this issue came from Orangebloods. It was posted by a guy named Bevobus.

"Sooner fans are getting a payraise!" hahahahaha, thats hilarious :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Hansum Stranger

01-11-2007, 06:50 AM

A friend of mine owns his own feed mill and has already stated that his goods will increase the same day wages go up. So if you get a $2 raise and his products go up $2, how much of a raise did you really get? The hardest working group of our country, the middle class, will be getting the shaft.

Phil C

01-11-2007, 09:05 AM

It could also cost jobs because a lot of businesses can't afford to pay employees the increase amount. :(

Ranger Mom

01-11-2007, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by jason
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

i think EVERYBODY said something about gas prices.....

I complained about the milk prices and thought about buying a cow!!

luvhoops34

01-11-2007, 09:47 AM

Nobody has addressed this particular issue. By raising the minimum wage, won't this attract more illegal aliens????

And if employers are having trouble paying the minimum wage, won't this be an incentive to them to hire illegal aliens and pay them less, thus squeezing out jobs for LEGAL AMERICAN CITIZENS?

spiveyrat

01-11-2007, 10:12 AM

I keep hearing about this inflation that is spiraling out of control. I am aware that there is some modest inflation now because of the price of fuel. But it is far from out-of-control. :rolleyes:

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/p4s90/inflation.jpg

spiveyrat

01-11-2007, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by luvhoops34
Nobody has addressed this particular issue. By raising the minimum wage, won't this attract more illegal aliens????

And if employers are having trouble paying the minimum wage, won't this be an incentive to them to hire illegal aliens and pay them less, thus squeezing out jobs for LEGAL AMERICAN CITIZENS?

:eek: I never thought of that. Good point! :clap:

lepfan

01-11-2007, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
I complained about the milk prices and thought about buying a cow!! You should see the amounts of milk these dairies have been pouring out....because the trucks can't get to them to pick it up. The other option is to stop milking....but I do think the cows would holler about that!!!!!

Black_Magic

01-11-2007, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
To me, every time minimum wage is increased, it's a joke....everybody else demands raises to offset the minimum wage increase, and then all the prices rise...it's a guaranteed way to bring inflation IMO. Thats the whole problem with america. You have business owners saying they will have to raise prices to pay these people. In reality you have MANY business owners that COULD absorb the increase them selves. These owners could maybe do without that new boat or vacation home.. But no!! dont ask them to do without anything. Greed. I know it may be hard on a few. BUT as a whole in regards to the economy , the wealthy could ablsorb most of the increase with no real problem. BUT they wont. Greed is prevelant. Its a shame that many think you can raise a kid and suport your self with a $5 an hour job.. You just cant do it.. THis is LONG overdue!

BILLYFRED0000

01-11-2007, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
There you go again, throwing out that term "liberal." Go ahead, point the finger, but economic programs such as minimum wage are what helped drag America out of the Depression and has done things to help keep us out of it again. Putting food in the mouths of our children is never a bad thing, but I guess that the 8 year old little boy or girl who goes to bed hungry every night should be punished to suit your beliefs and your idea that everyone should be self-sufficient and big business should do whatever they can to maximize profits. Let us forget protecting worker's rights. You still have yet to bring a feasible argument to the table, only broadcasting the fact that you support big business. With ideas like this, I'm sure that you support child labor, too. I bet that you're fully against people earning overtime wages, too, huh? Man, wise up and look past yourself to the people in America who need help. It would also be great if you could refrain from throwing the term liberal out there. Thanks and Gig 'Em.

Sorry could not get back to you. The term liberal is appropriate.
The view point is liberal. It assumes that government not only has the right but can enforce a standard of living by creating law.
Plain foolishness. If minimum wage was the answer poverty would have been eliminated then reappeared the last time they raised it. I am in favor of government doing what the constitution says it can do nothing more nothing less. There are always ways to make it work but you have to improve yourself. I have had 4 careers and may be taking a fifth. It is not the 50's and loyalty to the job no longer applies.

Black_Magic

01-11-2007, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
Sorry could not get back to you. The term liberal is appropriate.
The view point is liberal. It assumes that government not only has the right but can enforce a standard of living by creating law.
Plain foolishness. If minimum wage was the answer poverty would have been eliminated then reappeared the last time they raised it. I am in favor of government doing what the constitution says it can do nothing more nothing less. There are always ways to make it work but you have to improve yourself. I have had 4 careers and may be taking a fifth. It is not the 50's and loyalty to the job no longer applies. Its not about being the 50s or any other decade. Your Adam Smith attitude and Laissez-faire attitude has been proven wrong by history. If the government does not regulate business then the powerfull exploit the powerless. thats a fact of history. If left unregulated you would have rich and powerfull tanking advantage of labor. Low wages, no health insurance, NO safety regulations, no limit on working hours ect... The government should make it stick with laws against raising prices to offset the raise unless the company can show a LOSS that is directly related to the wage increase. Imagine an owner who is living very well actualy absorbing the wage ingrease and doing without that second Lexus or not taking that European vacation??:thinking: Boy thats harsh.

BILLYFRED0000

01-11-2007, 11:57 AM

Wrong again.

The underlying priciple is that government can enforce standard
of living with law. This is the principle under discussion. There is nothing wrong with unfair labor laws because these things can be construed as a crime because there is a victim. However, to say that government can enforce a standard of living is like saying it can create money out of thin air. It has no meaning or value and while it can be enforced it does not solve the underlying issue.

It all comes down to an old saw.

If you give a man a fish he eats for a day. Teach him to fish and he eats for a lifetime(actually sits in a boat and drinks beer all day).

The minimum wage is a workaround not a solution. Standard of living cannot be enforced. It can be improved and to do that the
individual must take responsibility for himself and make the necessary adjustments.

Fotbol

01-11-2007, 12:00 PM

Guess I can go and get the job at Mickey D's now:rolleyes:

Black_Magic

01-11-2007, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
Wrong again.

The underlying priciple is that government can enforce standard
of living with law. This is the principle under discussion. There is nothing wrong with unfair labor laws because these things can be construed as a crime because there is a victim. However, to say that government can enforce a standard of living is like saying it can create money out of thin air. It has no meaning or value and while it can be enforced it does not solve the underlying issue.

It all comes down to an old saw.

If you give a man a fish he eats for a day. Teach him to fish and he eats for a lifetime(actually sits in a boat and drinks beer all day).

The minimum wage is a workaround not a solution. Standard of living cannot be enforced. It can be improved and to do that the
individual must take responsibility for himself and make the necessary adjustments. Individuals do take respnsibility for them selves. people work hard and make only $5 an hour. You can not support your self and a kid on that. Thats a fact. Minimum wage should be so a person and a child could live ABOVE the Poverty level. at $5 you cant do that. If your working TWO. jobs at minimum wage now you could barely make it. I think the Fat Cats have it just fine right now. your thinking is backwards. Why would you begrudge thousands of hard working people a 2 dollar raise?? why should it be ok for the fat cat to shift this back on to the poor worker who through his hard work and cheap labor makes the fat cat even fatter??? People know how to fish. they just cant catch enough to actually feed them selves no matter how hard they try. Your wrong about the government enforcing a standard of living. they can enact safty laws that protect people, labor laws that keep companies from exploiting labor that would negativly effect the standard of living. The government could crack down on FAT CATS who do nothing to absorb these increases when they could by hitting them in the teeth with taxes for shifting the burdon to the worker. Its the governements job to protect the people of this country not only from outside danger and opression but from within as well.

zeus63

01-11-2007, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by Black_Magic
Individuals do take respnsibility for them selves. people work hard and make only $5 an hour. You can not support your self and a kid on that. Thats a fact. Minimum wage should be so a person and a child could live ABOVE the Poverty level. at $5 you cant do that. If your working TWO. jobs at minimum wage now you could barely make it. I think the Fat Cats have it just fine right now. your thinking is backwards. Why would you begrudge thousands of hard working people a 2 dollar raise?? why should it be ok for the fat cat to shift this back on to the poor worker who through his hard work and cheap labor makes the fat cat even fatter??? People know how to fish. they just cant catch enough to actually feed them selves no matter how hard they try. Your wrong about the government enforcing a standard of living. they can enact safty laws that protect people, labor laws that keep companies from exploiting labor that would negativly effect the standard of living. The government could crack down on FAT CATS who do nothing to absorb these increases when they could by hitting them in the teeth with taxes for shifting the burdon to the worker. Its the governements job to protect the people of this country not only from outside danger and opression but from within as well.

:clap: :clap: :clap:
Well put!!

luvhoops34

01-11-2007, 12:59 PM

Here's something for yall to chew on. My sister moved to Bellingham, WA a year ago. Minimum wage in Washington state is already $8/hr.

Housing is astronomical there. Her house which is on the market in Corpus Christi, right off of Ocean dr and Alameda for $180,000 would cost her over $300,000 there. And that's not within walking distance of the bay either.

Groceries are out of site. She has to shop at three different stores to try and save money. One of them being a warehouse type grocery.

My brother in law got a job selling used cars because he speaks Spanish. They pay him minimum wage, BUT only for some many hours. After that you have to clock out. If you want to make any kind of living wage there, you have to work off the clock and not get paid unless you sell cars. So you end up putting in a ton on hours just to make $500/wk if you're lucky.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

01-11-2007, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by spiveyrat
I keep hearing about this inflation that is spiraling out of control. I am aware that there is some modest inflation now because of the price of fuel. But it is far from out-of-control. :rolleyes:

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/p4s90/inflation.jpg

Take your charts and all of your graphs, but that doesn't change the fact that the price of common goods has gone up. It has either gone up due to inflation or corporate greed. Take your pick, but don't throw crap charts out there to try to change the truth of the matter.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

01-11-2007, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Compare a pay check now to a pay check ten years ago. Which came first.....the chicken or the egg? You raise minimum wages, cost of goods goes up because it costs the employer more to pay their employees. Sure, a person is "making" more money, but it is also costing them more to live on. So, again.....which came first.....the wage increase or the cost of goods? :nerd: :nerd:

Well, look at it this way, we haven't had a minimum wage increase in around ten years, give or take a few. What is the difference between a gallon of milk today and a gallon of milk ten years ago? If people are being paid the same minimum wage the entire time, then why is the price going up? Cows aren't a scarcity these days. The same applies for eggs, ground beef, and the list can go on and on. So, I guess to answer your question, the rising cost of goods went up before the wage increase. I know you're smart enough to figure that out.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

01-11-2007, 03:15 PM

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

01-11-2007, 03:20 PM

This is my last reply to this, simply because people are failing to grasp the concepts of poverty, inflation, and the cost of living. Until someone can actually give me solid reasons with evidence that the price of everything is going to go through the roof because of this, then I fail to see the point in trying. A lot of you call me the Fencepost because you say that I would argue with one, well, let me tell you, I feel like I've been trying to argue with a lot of them lately. Look past yourselves and your greed to the hard-working Americans who are living in poverty and actually need the assistance. As Phil would say, show some compassion.

Txbroadcaster

01-11-2007, 03:49 PM

SINTON81

01-11-2007, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by AggieJohn
In the 10 years since the minimum wage was raised, lawmakers increased their own pay by more than $31,000, to $165,200 last year.

This is the part that tick me off.:mad: :mad:

BILLYFRED0000

01-11-2007, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
This is my last reply to this, simply because people are failing to grasp the concepts of poverty, inflation, and the cost of living. Until someone can actually give me solid reasons with evidence that the price of everything is going to go through the roof because of this, then I fail to see the point in trying. A lot of you call me the Fencepost because you say that I would argue with one, well, let me tell you, I feel like I've been trying to argue with a lot of them lately. Look past yourselves and your greed to the hard-working Americans who are living in poverty and actually need the assistance. As Phil would say, show some compassion.

You just cannot grasp it can you. Forcing people to pay more simply makes it more expensive and they cannot afford to live again and thus the circle continues. Upping the minimum wage
will actually add to the inflation not solve it thus meaning absolutely nothing to the minimum wage earner and costing the middle classes a bigger piece of their pie. It has nothing to do with greed and everything to do with bad policy.

We raised minimum wage before. Tell me what did it solve?

Snyder_TigerFan

01-11-2007, 05:20 PM

Boy, I wish I could get a 40% raise over the next 2 years.

Blastoderm55

01-11-2007, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
We raised minimum wage before. Tell me what did it solve?

So you'd be ok with no minimum wage, putting that segment of our workforce on par with the earning power of those in Asia?

BILLYFRED0000

01-11-2007, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
So you'd be ok with no minimum wage, putting that segment of our workforce on par with the earning power of those in Asia?

Not at all. It is not either or. What I suggest is that the system we have works poorly and depends on a political body to enforce a standard of living when they themselves are corrupt and prone
to whims of their own. Further, when you raise those peoples pay you raise costs of the businesses which depend on that the most which include but are not restricted to fast food, some custodial jobs, etc. Now those will not raise that much costs in relation to a lot of businesses but the businesses it tends to hit the hardest are the Mom and Pop, small business, etc which are the people who can least afford it. Wal Mart does not pay minimum for example and will still have to give raises but because of their purchasing power they can spread the cost out. But the small businesses are being driven out and by the very people who
say they are for the little guy. And it further supports big business because they can afford it while the little guy cannot. In the end it helps the very people we accuse of greed while hurting the people we need the most in business for competition. It is pure common sense but also statistically provable. In the end it is self defeating. It is social economics, giving everybody a living.
When we all have a living we will all be poor.

Adidas410s

01-11-2007, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
This is my last reply to this, simply because people are failing to grasp the concepts of poverty, inflation, and the cost of living. Until someone can actually give me solid reasons with evidence that the price of everything is going to go through the roof because of this, then I fail to see the point in trying. A lot of you call me the Fencepost because you say that I would argue with one, well, let me tell you, I feel like I've been trying to argue with a lot of them lately. Look past yourselves and your greed to the hard-working Americans who are living in poverty and actually need the assistance. As Phil would say, show some compassion.

It's not that prices ARE going to go through the roof...but consider that those making minimum wage haven't had a raise in 10 years. Some say "well they're about to get a 40% raise"...annualize that out and it's a 4% raise/year that they never got. That's still not keeping up with the annualized growth rate of the country since the last rate hike to $5.15...but it's doing a good job. For the record, from 1997 to 2005 the growth rate works out to about 5% per year (before adjusting for inflation)...well above the standard 3% that economists commonly accept as a "strong growth" figure.

pero chato

01-11-2007, 05:47 PM

I agree with several points on both sides of this discussion. I will add the following:

* It's time to raise the minimum wage--not sure by how much.
I don't think it will hurt the economy.

*Does anyone actually know of a single parent trying to support a family on minimum wage? My son started working at United Supermarket as a bag boy and they started him off above minimum wage at age 16. He's worked his way up to assistant manager in one of the depts. Point is, in a strong economy, most employers will pay more than the minimum or at least give a raise if you work hard and are dependable.

*Corporate greed does exist. There are examples of good CEO's who share the profits with the employees, but there are lots of the bad ones who we call "fat cats".

*Congressional raises disgust me.

*If you are still making minimum wage after a year on the job, look for a new job or work smarter or move to a town with better job opportunities. I remember a sign in Austin outside Der Weinersnitchel (sp) offering $100 signing bonus and $10.00/hr.

*America is still the land of opportunity. But there are no guarantees that just because you work hard, you will or should be rewarded with better pay.

BILLYFRED0000

01-11-2007, 05:47 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
This is my last reply to this, simply because people are failing to grasp the concepts of poverty, inflation, and the cost of living. Until someone can actually give me solid reasons with evidence that the price of everything is going to go through the roof because of this, then I fail to see the point in trying. A lot of you call me the Fencepost because you say that I would argue with one, well, let me tell you, I feel like I've been trying to argue with a lot of them lately. Look past yourselves and your greed to the hard-working Americans who are living in poverty and actually need the assistance. As Phil would say, show some compassion.

You really misunderstand me. I do not disagree with your basic
premise. Merely the solution. Government regulation has increased the cost, along with the increase in taxes by said government. To increase the status quo is to merely allow the system to continue unabated which will mean more taxes etc.
By 2030 it is projected that entitlements will be app 70% of the national budget. We will be taxed out of existence and minimum wage will not solve that issue at all. Fixing poverty is a lovely goal but this does not nor will not solve it in the long term. This is a systemic problem not a poverty problem and if we continue to ignore the real issues minimum wage will never keep up or solve the issue.

BILLYFRED0000

01-11-2007, 05:51 PM

luvhoops34

01-11-2007, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Funny how you say people who dont agree with youy have no grasp on the concepts. Maybe they just dont agree with the application of the wage. Does not mean they dont grasp the concept. Every problem has different avenues to solve. Some can never truly be solved.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

luvhoops34

01-11-2007, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by Black_Magic
The government should make it stick with laws against raising prices to offset the raise unless the company can show a LOSS that is directly related to the wage increase. Imagine an owner who is living very well actually absorbing the wage increase and doing without that second Lexus or not taking that European vacation??:thinking: Boy that's harsh.

Sounds like communism to me.....:(

This is a free country and why should we penalize small business owners for making a profit????

BILLYFRED0000

01-11-2007, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by luvhoops34
Sounds like communism to me.....:(

This is a free country and why should we penalize small business owners for making a profit????

Socialism. Make sure we all have a piece of somebodies pie whether we deserve it or not. It does not work. Increase wages and you will make the businesses find ways to do more with less to keep costs down. YOu know they say people are the highest cost and the easiest way to cut cost to business is to cut people.

luvhoops34

01-11-2007, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
Socialism. Make sure we all have a piece of somebodies pie whether we deserve it or not. It does not work. Increase wages and you will make the businesses find ways to do more with less to keep costs down. YOu know they say people are the highest cost and the easiest way to cut cost to business is to cut people.

Sorry, I mean socialism....:o

LH Panther Mom

01-11-2007, 06:44 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Well, look at it this way, we haven't had a minimum wage increase in around ten years, give or take a few. What is the difference between a gallon of milk today and a gallon of milk ten years ago? If people are being paid the same minimum wage the entire time, then why is the price going up? Cows aren't a scarcity these days. The same applies for eggs, ground beef, and the list can go on and on. So, I guess to answer your question, the rising cost of goods went up before the wage increase. I know you're smart enough to figure that out.
Try this on for size. 10 years ago Joe worked at McDonald's for minimum wage. Joe still works at McDonald's 10 years later for minimum wage. At what point is it JOE'S responsibility to get out and find something better OR do a better job for the same company to earn a raise? Companies give raises to employees.....yes, including McDonald's. If I'm still working for minimum wage for 10 years, then the WAGE doesn't seem to be the problem, imo.

BILLYFRED0000

01-11-2007, 07:16 PM

Bandera YaYa

01-11-2007, 09:36 PM

Hupernikomen

01-11-2007, 10:02 PM

I think the thread states both sides of the issue very well and shows that Pres. Bush is exactly right in demanded that if we raise the minimum wage that we give some tas relief to small businesses. Sadly, this issue like ever other one will be highly politicized and little good will come from it.

Blastoderm55

01-12-2007, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Try this on for size. 10 years ago Joe worked at McDonald's for minimum wage. Joe still works at McDonald's 10 years later for minimum wage. At what point is it JOE'S responsibility to get out and find something better OR do a better job for the same company to earn a raise? Companies give raises to employees.....yes, including McDonald's. If I'm still working for minimum wage for 10 years, then the WAGE doesn't seem to be the problem, imo.

That's an excellent scenario, now consider this one that I've found to be quite common.

Maggie is a single mother to two children. She was previously employed in a manufacturing plant under the ownership of Furniture Brand International. Maggie did an excellent job, and had done so for nearly a decade, being in charge of providing smoothed wood solids for the construction of pure oak bedroom furniture.

One day, Maggie and her coworkers gathered around their foreman and were told that the plant was to be shut down effective immediately. Cheap Asian imports have led to the demise of the American case goods industry, and Maggie's position along with those of her friends have been effectively outsourced to China, The Phillipines, Vietnam and Singapore.

Maggie's first reaction was to panic. She'd put in over ten years of devoted work with this employer, and would have been eligible for retirement benefits in about eight. Worse, she and her children would no longer have medical insurance, as there is no way she could cover the full costs of coverage, especially without a job.

But, Maggie refused to dwell in her layoff, and figured she could get a job elsewhere for comparable pay and benefit. Unfortunately, Maggie was wrong, as nearly all manufacturing jobs, regardless of field, have been outsourced to Asia or South America, leaving this highly-skilled worker out of a job in which she could employ her craft.

So Maggie, with savings running out and monthly bills due right around the corner took a job at a local fast food parlor. There, she was hired at a minimum wage of $5.15, less than a third of what she previously made. There are no benefits, no sick days, and she could risk the loss of her job if she needs to take a personal day any time within her 90 day probationary period. Maggie would be eligible for a raise after her 90 day evaluation, and with some advancement would also have the opportunity to take part in the employer's group health plan, coming at the whopping cost of $400 per month.

Now, this employer would be construed as fair to Maggie. The employer gave Maggie about 35 hours a week, making sure to never go more than 40 hours in order to keep her on as a "part-time" worker. At this rate, Maggie's take-home pay of $160 a week would never cut it. She had a mortgage, a car payment, and most importantly, two children to take care of. $640 per month will simply not cut it. So, Maggie, pride pushed aside, applied for food stamps and additional government assistance, hoping to be able to at least provide medical coverage to her children.

She stuck it out at the fast food parlor. She lost her car, had light and water turned off, and credit is shot. But she survived her 90 day probationary period, and after her evaluation was given a 25% raise. Now, she makes a whopping $6.44 an hour. Maggie was hoping for at least a chance as shift manager or assistant manager, but apparently opportunity does not come around often in this place. Now, Maggie freaks. She's suffered three months of hell along with her children. Her food stamps fell through, and Medicaid for her children got slashed out of the government's budget.

What will Maggie do now? Granted, $7.25 an hour would not help her very much, this example is just another indictment of how corporate America has destroyed American lives.

My business is closing down at the end of March. I sure hope I can find something better than Maggie. :(

Snyder_TigerFan

01-12-2007, 11:57 AM

Blast....that is a very common scenario that the US should address. I worked for a company a few years ago that manufactured computers. They moved their operations to Mexico where labor was much cheaper. Luckily I was not affected like 100+ of the other employees were, but this was a very depressing time to see all of these people being layed off after several years of steady employment. I got out of there as quick as I could. Good luck to you. This is a HUGE problem in the US.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

01-12-2007, 12:02 PM

I know I said I wouldn't post on this thread, but I would like to apologize. You all made some very good points and I was wrong to just go out and say you were all uneducated on the ideals. I'm sorry.

BTEXDAD

01-12-2007, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by Blastoderm55

My business is closing down at the end of March. I sure hope I can find something better than Maggie. :(

What type of business do you have, Blast?

Blastoderm55

01-12-2007, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by BTEXDAD
What type of business do you have, Blast?

Sell and lease furniture, appliances, and electronics.

BILLYFRED0000

01-12-2007, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
I know I said I wouldn't post on this thread, but I would like to apologize. You all made some very good points and I was wrong to just go out and say you were all uneducated on the ideals. I'm sorry.

No you understand the problem very well. It is an issue of how to solve it. Because of unfair labor laws and lower standards of living around the world it is harder and harder for the US to compete. Every time we raise our standard of living we force companies to look elsewhere to compete. It is a complex situation and we are at the top of the food chain so to speak. If it was not for the service industries and high tech we would be in dire straits now. If we do not cut our entitlement mentality I cannot begin to predict what might happen.