Interesting observation of Tx HS football

[Old QB]

I was visiting with relative ( a former hs coach) on Xmas eve.. He said that he'd recently had a discussion with a sports writer concerning the very successful football programs such as 5a schools as SLC, Austin West Lake, Katy & Lake Highlands. He said that these schools are in very wealthy school districts. Many of the kids are from very wealthy families. Therefore, many of these players have their own personal trainers, dietitians & they're sent to the best of various football camps. Those districts usually hire the best coaches money can buy. Consequently, some of the poorer districts, such as inner city schools, don't have an equal chance to compete. Makes sense. He also said that in some cases the kids who can't make the team in these rich districts because of the huge supply of talent, that the parents simply move or buy a second home in adjacent 4a or 3a districts. Some of you may dispute this, I don't know but I just found it interesting.

[injuredinmelee]

While some of it may be true more power to them. IF you got it use it! Not Southlakes responsibility to make sure an athlete at an urban school has the same. The schools must provide certain things but I dont care if Johhnys mom cant get him a personal traniner when Reginalds mom can get her son one.

[JR2004]

Originally posted by Old QB
I was visiting with relative ( a former hs coach) on Xmas eve.. He said that he'd recently had a discussion with a sports writer concerning the very successful football programs such as 5a schools as SLC, Austin West Lake, Katy & Lake Highlands. He said that these schools are in very wealthy school districts. Many of the kids are from very wealthy families. Therefore, many of these players have their own personal trainers, dietitians & they're sent to the best of various football camps. Those districts usually hire the best coaches money can buy. Consequently, some of the poorer districts, such as inner city schools, don't have an equal chance to compete. Makes sense. He also said that in some cases the kids who can't make the team in these rich districts because of the huge supply of talent, that the parents simply move or buy a second home in adjacent 4a or 3a districts. Some of you may dispute this, I don't know but I just found it interesting.

Those schools do have a nice built-in advantage over inner-city schools. I have to kinda laugh when I hear about these kids at SLC or Westlake or HP that have personal trainers...Inner city schools aren't anywhere close to being on equal footing. If you see an inner city school make a deep run in the playoffs it's more than likely going to be due to a ridiculously talented roster like what Lincoln had in 2004 with Richetti Jones and Byron Eaton among others.

DISD is doing the best they can to help out the football teams in the school district, but the disparity between city schools and suburban schools in terms of facilities and MONEY is not even close. I just kinda have to shake my head anytime I go into Madison's "weight room"...It's in an old boiler room (The school building is a national historical monument that's 90 years old) that serves as a JV locker room/equipment storage area. They have so little room in there that they have to put some of their dilapidated workout equipment in an old shower area. Suburban schools have it so dang good in comparison.

Oh well at least the city schools have the market cornered when it comes to basketball from 5A to 3A these days. :)

[big daddy russ]

What about Dallas Carter, Houston Yates, the entire Aldine ISD, etc? Last I checked, Texas City and LaMarque weren't exactly "rich."

I think that the wealthier areas do have some advantages, but that it has as much to do with genetics as it does the advantages money can buy. You'd be surprised at the number of ex-college players that live in my in-laws' subdivision in Katy. Look at all the ex-UT players that live in the Austin Westlake district (hell, Earl Campbell's played for them) and the same goes for Southlake Carroll, Highland Park, etc. Granted, HP and SLC are as much ex-NFL as ex-college, but you get the picture.

There was a study that said that tall, athletic people tend to make more money in life. I think you have to take into account the fact that many of these ex-college athletes who got their bachelor's and a successful job move to these areas and IMO that plays as much into their success as all the 'additional training.'

Don't get me wrong, the additional training doesn't hurt, but Corpus Christi Ray had all the Ocean Drive kids (all the richest of the rich in CC). Farrah Fawcett lives (lived?) there, the Butts that own HEB grocery live there, and tons of other extremely wealthy people live there. Likewise, Rockport has some extremely wealthy citizens. Hell, George Strait and Nolan Ryan have houses in between Rockport and Aransas Pass (in the Rockport school district, though their kids don't go to school there), but they hardly get any of their kids picked up by colleges.

Neither of those schools have cranked out as many college kids as middle-class Calallen high school. Calallen has some money, but they're definitely not a 'rich' area. Middle class, lots of farming, the best football factory in CC.

Like I said, I'm not going to argue that the money to dole out on all that extra training hurts at all, I just think there are TONS of other factors that make those areas good and not just the training. The built-in talent is a great start, the extra training just puts that talent over the top.

[JR2004]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
What about Dallas Carter

Carter...They haven't won a state title since 88 (I'm counting it no matter what the UIL says) and won't be winning one or even winning their region anytime soon. The money dynamic has altered the landscape for inner city schools greatly since Carter's heyday under Freddie James. DISD came to this same realization several years ago and did their own studies on the matter. They weren't even giving suburban schools a good game 90 percent of the time in the regular season or playoffs in football. It's why the Jesse Owens athletic complex exists over off of I-20. They'll never get equal footing with suburban schools in football, but DISD realized that to give their schools at least a shot at competing they were going to need to spend some money so they did and it's at least made the district somewhat respectable on the football field.

[burnet44]

no matter how much money you have
it takes work

ol coach always told me the following
its still true today

there are 2 things you win with

toughness and talent

you can win some games with talent
and you can win some games with toughness
but you can win all your games with both

if the argument about afluent kids having so much advantage is true

why dont we see em playing on sundays?

work is the difference
you acheive nothing without work
reguardless of facilities or money

[vet93]

I have had similar discussions before about this phenomena...I called it the "suburban effect". The suburban effect is usually seen in areas with a "city" population of at least 100,000. The effect centers around kids who would have ordinarily lived in a city move out to a surburban school that has a good reputation for schools, coaches, and athletics. West Texas Examples of schools who have somewhat benefited from this effect either currently or in the past are: Frenship, Wall, Abilene Wylie, and Midland Greenwood. I would suggest that their are other communities in other areas who have also benefited from this effect. I am not complaining...this is just an observation over the years.

[lion75]

There is another side to this. Many schools who don't benefit from this inner city advantage may have a somewhat different advantage. An isolated town (like Vernon) can have as many as 70 to 90% of their players that have been together since the 1st grade. If you have never done this, it is impossible to understand the "foxhole" effect that it has. Vernon was ranked 68th in the state by the Harris Polls in September and made to the semifinals and I can assure you it was not on raw talent or advanced training techniques. It was comraderie and a long history together that pushed this team to a remarkable achievement.

[lion75]

Originally posted by lion75
There is another side to this. Many schools who don't benefit from this inner city advantage may have a somewhat different advantage. An isolated town (like Vernon) can have as many as 70 to 90% of their players that have been together since the 1st grade. If you have never done this, it is impossible to understand the "foxhole" effect that it has. Vernon was ranked 68th in the state by the Harris Polls in September and made to the semifinals and I can assure you it was not on raw talent or advanced training techniques. It was comraderie and a long history together that pushed this team to a remarkable achievement. I meant to say" suburban advantage"

[Alaska cat]

Originally posted by lion75
There is another side to this. Many schools who don't benefit from this inner city advantage may have a somewhat different advantage. An isolated town (like Vernon) can have as many as 70 to 90% of their players that have been together since the 1st grade. If you have never done this, it is impossible to understand the "foxhole" effect that it has. Vernon was ranked 68th in the state by the Harris Polls in September and made to the semifinals and I can assure you it was not on raw talent or advanced training techniques. It was comraderie and a long history together that pushed this team to a remarkable achievement.

It is that exactly that makes Celina Celina and SLC SLC..they have all been playing together since Pee Wees

And you can believe if the program needs something it gets it. They have extremely active Booster clubs

[Maroon87]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Neither of those schools have cranked out as many college kids as middle-class Calallen high school. Calallen has some money, but they're definitely not a 'rich' area. Middle class, lots of farming, the best football factory in CC.




BDR I'm glad that someone with a firm knowledge of the CC area such as yourself posted that analysis. Somehow we always get referred to as the "rich" school in CC. We do have some families that are quite wealthy, but we've got nothing on Ray, King, and Carroll.


Thanks for clearing that up...:D :cool:

[BobcatBenny]

My opinion is that money drives the coaching. This is the most important factor in having a successful program.

If you have money, you can attract the best coaching.

I have seen and believe that how well kids are organized and coached is what makes a bunch of average kids beat the heck out of teams with talent.

Take Liberty Hill and Celina as examples. Two well coach programs. Each had distinctly different programs, the Liberty Hill team ran the wing T offense with robotic like efficiency. The Celina team likewise runs the 10-1 defense with robotic like effort.

The coaches matched the kids with certain talents and abilities to the correct positions. This maximized each teams efficiency and effort. Quite amazing! :)

[LHPfactory]

I am a police officer in Austin, I was also one in Houston before that . I deal with the community alot and have noticed big differences in the attitued and work ethic of kids from small towns and suburbs versus inner city schools. Disunity and lack of persistance seem to plague the inner city youth mentality. I feel bad for these kids, I have witnessed 5A football games with only 25 people in the stands. Alot of these kids are left to figure out how to survive on their own and have an individual attitude. Lack of parental guidance and community support is one reason so many of these kids join gangs (they are seeking family). In contrast when you look at towns like Celina, LH, Wimberley, etc, as well as suburbs like Katy, you have intact homes that work as a unit and are nurturing and supportive. These kids learn how to function as a unit at home and that is the essence of building a winning team. Team unity is likely the key to success of a highschool team. Take LH for example, we have some good athletes, however, we are not loaded with D1 talent, but the team unity is all pro. Not all inner city kids have bad families however, look at Vince Young, his mother and grandmother were very active in his life and look where he is.

[rundoe]

Originally posted by BobcatBenny
My opinion is that money drives the coaching. This is the most important factor in having a successful program.

If you have money, you can attract the best coaching.

I have seen and believe that how well kids are organized and coached is what makes a bunch of average kids beat the heck out of teams with talent.

Take Liberty Hill and Celina as examples. Two well coach programs. Each had distinctly different programs, the Liberty Hill team ran the wing T offense with robotic like efficiency. The Celina team likewise runs the 10-1 defense with robotic like effort.

The coaches matched the kids with certain talents and abilities to the correct positions. This maximized each teams efficiency and effort. Quite amazing! :)

I can garantee you that good coaching and hard work got the LH Panthers to where they got this year. My sons (one a senior and one a freshman) were up every morning all summer working out in the off season with 99% of the team. Their drive and determination won them to the State championship.

The fans and boosters were there to support them every game no matter where, ask their opposition!!!

It had very little to do with money.

It was hard work and wanting it bad enough to go take it. If something was needed, new weightroom equip. etc. The Boosters or parents stepped up.

IT was all hard work, on both the kids, parents, and coaches part that got us the State Championship.

I will say this, the kids got up on their own and came together as a team. THEY deserve the glory because they earned it.
Good Post LPHFACTORY