How about that Vince Young and the Titans! [Archive]

JR2004

12-18-2006, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by BTEXDAD
He's a winner. Doesn't matter if he throws like uncle rico as described by some doubters, or if he should have thrown when he ran, like Merrill Hog said.
He will find a way to help his team win. Winners find a way to win and losers make excuses.

I gotta give the credit for this win to the defense since Tennessee's offense barely touched the field yesterday. The good thing though for Tennessee is that Vince didn't turn the ball over (Yes it was limited time on the field for the Titan's offense) like his counterpart Garrard did. Most of the credit though for yesterday has to go to the defense for making the plays when they had to. I think it's probably also fair to say that the entire team is playing with A LOT more confidence since Vince took over at QB. The team follows his lead and they're all playing so confident right now. Without Vince I don't know that Tennessee would have two wins right now. He's really transformed that whole franchise in just a few short months.

themsu97

12-18-2006, 10:39 AM

the team is playing alot better because they are all healthy... nothing against VY, he is good... but, the team getting healthy also has alot to do with it,
excuses... you are funny... as is your man crush on VY

Phil C

12-18-2006, 10:40 AM

:)

http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2006/01/05/PH2006010500133.jpg

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

12-18-2006, 11:25 AM

Vince Young this, Vince Young that. Why is it that everyone is in love with VY? There are ten other players on offense and a whole other set of eleven players on defense. Without a decent offensive line, backs, and receivers to catch the ball, Young would be absolutely nothing. Texas did well with a freshman quarterback at the helm, who did many things that VY didn't do when he first started leading the Longhorns. Since VY is God's gift to earth and always has been, what does that say about Colt McCoy? McCoy started off better than Young, so doesn't that mean he's going to be better than Vince?

Old Tiger

12-18-2006, 11:37 AM

Phil C

12-18-2006, 11:56 AM

Vince Young is the best thing to have happened since Buttered Popcorn!!

:)

injuredinmelee

12-18-2006, 11:59 AM

Vince Young would give Chuck Norris and atomic wedgie and make him like it.

Phil C

12-18-2006, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by injuredinmelee
Vince Young would give Chuck Norris and atomic wedgie and make him like it.

inj and the the pretty thing is that when he was at UT, VY and Chuck were on the same side. Frightening isn't it. :) And also Matthew was on our side - remember he was the hero of U-251. Plus Lance! :)

stxfootballfan

12-18-2006, 12:09 PM

What makes Vince so good is that he is so positive and confident, and it rubs off on his teammates. Why cant people be happy for him having a good season instead of bashing him every oppurtunity they get. I think many people seem to forget he is a ROOKIE on a team that did not appear to be very good at the beginning of the season. The Titans will only get better with 11 draft picks and plenty of money to spend next year. If Norm Chow resigns with the Titans next year that would be HUGE for the further development of Vince. And why does everyone talk about his throwing motion but no one seems to care about Phillip Rivers throwing motion?

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

12-18-2006, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by stxfootballfan
What makes Vince so good is that he is so positive and confident, and it rubs off on his teammates. Why cant people be happy for him having a good season instead of bashing him every oppurtunity they get. I think many people seem to forget he is a ROOKIE on a team that did not appear to be very good at the beginning of the season. The Titans will only get better with 11 draft picks and plenty of money to spend next year. If Norm Chow resigns with the Titans next year that would be HUGE for the further development of Vince. And why does everyone talk about his throwing motion but no one seems to care about Phillip Rivers throwing motion?

Jacksonville had over 350 yards of total offense and had the ball for over 44:00 minutes in the game. Tennessee had the ball for a little over 15:00 minutes and had around 94 yards of total offense. The Titans defense created 4 turnovers and scored 3 touchdowns on defense. The Titans defense and special teams accounted for over 360 yards by themselves...Vince Young must be rubbing off pretty damn good then. :hand:

injuredinmelee

12-18-2006, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Jacksonville had over 350 yards of total offense and had the ball for over 44:00 minutes in the game. Tennessee had the ball for a little over 15:00 minutes and had around 94 yards of total offense. The Titans defense created 4 turnovers and scored 3 touchdowns on defense. The Titans defense and special teams accounted for over 360 yards by themselves...Vince Young must be rubbing off pretty damn good then. :hand:

Vince is just a winner. It has been said several times on this thread alone but his team seems to have the utmost confidence in him and it affects the way they play. He makes any team he is on better. There is no denying that he is a future superstar. Right now he isnt a barn burner or tearing the league up but look what he has meant for that team since they named him the starter? Did the rest of the team have this much confidence in Volek?

bulldogman06

12-18-2006, 01:18 PM

Someone earlier said, why cant yall get off his case, hes a rookie havin a good year. EXACTLY! he is a rookie, havin a good year, not some all pro, proven player yet. i am just tired of hearin from people how a rookie is this good and that great and is playin better than most veterans etc etc. yea, there is one rookie close to doin that, but his name is Maurice Jones-Drew.

eagles_victory

12-18-2006, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by Phil C
Plus Lance! :) Lance who Bass? thats nasty phil

BTEXDAD

12-18-2006, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by bulldogman06
Someone earlier said, why cant yall get off his case, hes a rookie havin a good year. EXACTLY! he is a rookie, havin a good year, not some all pro, proven player yet. i am just tired of hearin from people how a rookie is this good and that great and is playin better than most veterans etc etc. yea, there is one rookie close to doin that, but his name is Maurice Jones-Drew.

Drew probably should be offensive rook of yr at least thru 14 games. Def rookie should be Damico Ryan from Texans.

I don't think anyone is saying vince is playing better than most veterans, but he is playing a lot better than that one veteran in Houston.

However, if you had the option to start your NFL team today, can you think of more than 7-8 QBs you'd rather have than VY?

Would you rather have Rex Grossman, Jake Delhomme, Harrington, Charlie Frye (Cleveland), Gradkowski (TB), Losman, Vick, Kitna, Plummer, Pennington, Brad Johnson (9 tds and 15 ints), or maybe you'd prefer Carr?

injuredinmelee

12-18-2006, 01:55 PM

ok now honestly of all the people that have basked vince on this thread how many of you are aggies? I know bbde and bulldogman are. Is this maybe and just maybe a case of maroon colored glasses clouding your perception?

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

12-18-2006, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by injuredinmelee
ok now honestly of all the people that have basked vince on this thread how many of you are aggies? I know bbde and bulldogman are. Is this maybe and just maybe a case of maroon colored glasses clouding your perception?

It has nothing to do with my perception, it is everyone elses who thinks that Vince Young is all there is to the team that he plays on. It happened to the Longhorns and now it is happening to the Titans. Sure, he's a gifted athlete and adds a lot to the Titans, but he's not the reason they won all of the games they have. Young was not the reason the Longhorns won all the games last year. There are a lot of people who are failing to realize that football is a team sport, not an individual one. This isn't golf. There are a lot of other great players who are overlooked because everyone is focused on one player. I did nothing to take away from Young, I only presented facts to you and everyone else that Young did not win this last game and he is not all the Titans have on their football team. Quit looking through your burnt orange colored glasses and see that.

turbostud

12-18-2006, 02:06 PM

Maybe Reggie McNeal could do better?

eagles_victory

12-18-2006, 02:08 PM

I love Vince as much as anybody (with the exception of Phil) but its hard for me to give Vince a whole lot of credit when the offense gains 98 yards. I agree with Gary lets give this defense some respect they have been outstanding... and if they werent running the ball so well it would be a lot harder for Vince to do what hes doing so lets credit the defense and run game and not say its all vince

pirate4state

12-18-2006, 02:12 PM

The thread title states what this thread is about. If you are tired of "hearing/reading" about how great we all think VY is then don't open the thread...simple! :)

eagles_victory

12-18-2006, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by pirate4state
The thread title states what this thread is about. If you are tired of "hearing/reading" about how great we all think VY is then don't open the thread...simple! :) when phil clutters the whole boardup with it each week it makes it tough

themsu97

12-18-2006, 02:35 PM

man crush...
Rex Grossman really is not that bad... Johnson is a journeyman but has won a superbowl... like that is the end all be all of qb's... heck even Trent Dilfer has won a superbowl...

pirate4state

12-18-2006, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by eagles_victory
when phil clutters the whole boardup with it each week it makes it tough Clutter? There are other people who clutter the board, at least with Phil you know what you are getting. His thread titles are always specific unless he is about to go off on a "this is a 3A board".

Next week everything changes, it will "officially" begin the off season on the downlow be prepared for TONS of CLUTTER!!

LitanyofFury

12-18-2006, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Vince Young this, Vince Young that. Why is it that everyone is in love with VY? There are ten other players on offense and a whole other set of eleven players on defense. Without a decent offensive line, backs, and receivers to catch the ball, Young would be absolutely nothing. Texas did well with a freshman quarterback at the helm, who did many things that VY didn't do when he first started leading the Longhorns. Since VY is God's gift to earth and always has been, what does that say about Colt McCoy? McCoy started off better than Young, so doesn't that mean he's going to be better than Vince?

Maybe because that "vaunted" Titans defense is DEAD LAST in the NFL. Vince's receivers are fairly mediocre. His O-Line isn't spectacular. Basically, the only good piece he has around him is Travis Henry and we all saw what he did Sunday when he got the rock.

It's fairly obvious you've got a chip on your shoulder about him. I mean the guy broke records in the NCAA and wasn't even a Senior. He's a freak. . .as evidenced by him bringing his team back for 3 come from behind wins 3 weeks in a row.

Right now Vince is beating teams and he's still got a LONG way to go learning reads, working out timing, etc. Just think about how insane he's going to be when he gets it all down. And yes, he will. His Sophomore year in college everyone said he couldn't throw. His Junior year he had a better passer efficiency than Matt Leinart, Cutler, everyone in the NCAA. I expect the same in the NFL especially considering he's got Norm Chow as his coordinator.

g$$

12-18-2006, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by themsu97
he did not have a chance... the Titans had the ball for all of 14 minutes of the game... how did the Jaguars lose?...
it was impressive to see VY score all those touchdowns on defense... he can surely do it all...
i was really impressed with that 60 yard field goal to beat the Colts that VY kicked...

Nice sarcasm, like it!

VY is a winner & we all know that. But he had a horrific game yesterday (98 yds. total offense) & they only had the ball like 14 minutes (lots of 3 & outs too). The Titans defense scored 3 tds & forced 4 turnovers. VY did not turn the ball over to his credit, but he did throw the ball away in the last minute when the Jags had no timeouts left. That was a rookie mistake & not very smart.

On the year, VY has 10 tds passing & 11 Ints (same as David Carr), & ranks 31st in the NFL in passing. How & if he develops as a passer will determine if he ever reaches true superstar status. His legs are his best weapon right now, & that will not always be the case as he gets older. Let's don't make his bust for Canton just yet guys! He has lots of work left to do, & no doubt he will improve. But please hold on...

Phil C

12-18-2006, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by g$$
Nice sarcasm, like it!

VY is a winner & we all know that. But he had a horrific game yesterday (98 yds. total offense) & they only had the ball like 14 minutes (lots of 3 & outs too). The Titans defense scored 3 tds & forced 4 turnovers. VY did not turn the ball over to his credit, but he did throw the ball away in the last minute when the Jags had no timeouts left. That was a rookie mistake & not very smart.

On the year, VY has 10 tds passing & 11 Ints (same as David Carr), & ranks 31st in the NFL in passing. How & if he develops as a passer will determine if he ever reaches true superstar status. His legs are his best weapon right now, & that will not always be the case as he gets older. Let's don't make his bust for Canton just yet guys! He has lots of work left to do, & no doubt he will improve. But please hold on...

The great UT quarterback Bobbly Layne once said "Don't give me records! Give me wins!"

:clap:

g$$

12-18-2006, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by Phil C
The great UT quarterback Bobbly Layne once said "Don't give me records! Give me wins!"

:clap:

That is true Phil, & I have given VY credit at every turn.

But, you & I had as much to do with the Titans winning yesterday as VY did. To say otherwise makes that person look stupid with a serious man crush. He does not play defense, special teams, or any other position besides QB (& not very well yesterday). He does instill belief & he is a winner, but come on. He had a bad rookie game yesterday. The defense & special teams won the game, period, for the Titans.

Yesterday:
Jags = 23 1st downs
Titans = 5 1st downs
...thus the huge disparity in TOP

Rational thoughts people!

stxfootballfan

12-18-2006, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Jacksonville had over 350 yards of total offense and had the ball for over 44:00 minutes in the game. Tennessee had the ball for a little over 15:00 minutes and had around 94 yards of total offense. The Titans defense created 4 turnovers and scored 3 touchdowns on defense. The Titans defense and special teams accounted for over 360 yards by themselves...Vince Young must be rubbing off pretty damn good then. :hand:

I dont see anywhere in my post where I said Vince plays defense and had a career day yesterday. Im talking about the season as a whole not one game. The biggest postive he can take from yesterdays game is he didnt turn the ball over. Watch any interview with his Titans teammates and they ALL say the same thing. Hes postive and confident and its infectious. He is a ROOKIE with alot to learn and with a great QB teacher in Norm Chow.

Highschoolfan78

12-18-2006, 04:41 PM

Vince will have more playoff apperearences than David Carr will once its all said and done. Damico Ryans is the best rookie defensive player by a long shot. Mario Williams should take some notes on how explosive Ryan's playing style is. Maurice Jones-Drew is a great back and has complimented Fred Taylor's style well. But i am giving some love to the offensive line and giving the SD Left tackle the offensive rookie of the year. Yeah, I watched ESPN, but after seeing their argument I am convinced he is the best rookie on offense this year blocking for LT.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

12-18-2006, 05:02 PM

Obviously, nobody has said that VY plays every position on the field, I didn't mean that in a literal sense, only that many posters feel that way. Young has more INTs than TDs and has led his team to a few victories, big deal. He's overrated right now, plain and simple. He has a long way to go, but everyone is hyping him up to be the best. Young is nowhere close to being a Peyton Manning, a Troy Aikman, or a Brett Favre in his prime, so stop making him out to be. I'm not saying he won't be there someday, but today is not that day. About his passer rating in college, it is beyond a shadow of a doubt that Leinart was a better passing quarterback in college, and apparently a lot more people besides me think so. How many Heisman Trophies does VY have? What about Leinart? I grew up a Longhorn fan, and just because I came to A&M doesn't mean that I don't support them. They fall behind the Aggies now, but that is based on principle of the matter. I saw a couple of years worth of VY, and he does make a lot of great plays, but look at what he has done since he became a professional. Come on people, wise up, he still has a long way to go, and when he does very little to win a game for his team, stop giving him all the credit in the world, that's my only argument.

LitanyofFury

12-18-2006, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Obviously, nobody has said that VY plays every position on the field, I didn't mean that in a literal sense, only that many posters feel that way. Young has more INTs than TDs and has led his team to a few victories, big deal. He's overrated right now, plain and simple. He has a long way to go, but everyone is hyping him up to be the best. Young is nowhere close to being a Peyton Manning, a Troy Aikman, or a Brett Favre in his prime, so stop making him out to be. I'm not saying he won't be there someday, but today is not that day. About his passer rating in college, it is beyond a shadow of a doubt that Leinart was a better passing quarterback in college, and apparently a lot more people besides me think so. How many Heisman Trophies does VY have? What about Leinart? I grew up a Longhorn fan, and just because I came to A&M doesn't mean that I don't support them. They fall behind the Aggies now, but that is based on principle of the matter. I saw a couple of years worth of VY, and he does make a lot of great plays, but look at what he has done since he became a professional. Come on people, wise up, he still has a long way to go, and when he does very little to win a game for his team, stop giving him all the credit in the world, that's my only argument.

Why is everyone making a big deal out of Vince having ONE FREAKING MORE INT THAN TDs?!?! Rex Grossman has about 50 INTs right now and that fool has been in the NFL 3-4 years. Nevermind the fact that several of Vince's INTs have been garbage picks caused by Norm Chow calling for him to bomb it out at the end of the half instead of taking a knee (specifically the first game against the Colts).

It's extremely obvious that w/o Vince playing the Titans were going to tank the entire season and maybe win 2 games. People scoff at this, but he makes everyone else around him (offense AND defense) better.

Finally, look at the game rationally. Vince got what 4 possessions the entire game? 1 of those possessions he drove his team down the field and Bironas missed a FG. Then, the next time they got back in was late in the 4th, up by 2 TDs, and they were on their own 1 yard line. Obviously they were just trying to run out the clock and weren't trying to make plays.

Also, Vince has terrible receivers. . .and even they were hurt! Bo Scaife was out, Ben Troupe was out. . .Travis Henry was a gametime decision to play and so he wasn't anywhere near 100%.

Some of you don't want Vince to get all the praise but at the same time you want him to get all the blame for the offensive struggles. So what. . .he had a bad game where he hardly saw the field. Guess what? He didn't turn the ball over and cost his team the game. Leinart threw 2 picks against the Broncos which directly contributed to the Cardinals losing that game. Rex Grossman throws about 3 picks a game which has cost his teams games at times. Brett Favre threw 3 picks himself Sunday while breaking records and made the game a lot closer than it needed to be.

We've all been saying that Vince needs time to develop. However, that doesn't mean that he isn't spectacular already. He's winning and his team is still in the playoff hunt which is more than what a LOT of QBs in the league can say. In fact, most people admit right now that if the Titans had stuck Vince in sooner the Titans would be headed to the playoffs even tho they have absolutely no stars on that team (Vince and Pacman)and their defense is terrible.

I think a lot of you are overstating how much praise we Vince "clones" are giving him. Of course Phil is all hot on him, but this guy is hot on EVERYTHING burnt orange so just ignore him.:D

g$$

12-18-2006, 06:12 PM

Yesterday:
Jags = 23 1st downs
Titans = 5 1st downs
...thus the huge disparity in TOP

VY is a winner & leader, but please stop the man crush. VY did very little yesterday to help them win. Not getting 1st downs is one of the reasons for TOP being so lopsided.

This has nothing to do with school affiliation. He is NOT anywhere near a good passer right now (& the stats say so too, 31st in passing, 10 tds & 11 Ints, etc.). Give him time, but to give him credit for the defense & special teams winning the game yesterday makes you look silly.

When you have 98 total yds., the conversation ends right there.

stxfootballfan

12-18-2006, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
How many Heisman Trophies does VY have?

LOL, what does a Heisman Trophy have to do with the NFL?

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

12-19-2006, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by stxfootballfan
LOL, what does a Heisman Trophy have to do with the NFL?

Tell that to the other guy who brought up the idea that Young was a better passing QB in college than Matt Leinart....

Phil C

12-19-2006, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Tell that to the other guy who brought up the idea that Young was a better passing QB in college than Matt Leinart....

Big in the 50s the Aggies had great teams under Coach Bryant. They were a strong running team but they rarely passed. But when they needed too they got results. The main point is to be able to complete passes when you have to in order to win. The Aggies did just that. A joke went around that said "A&M can't pass a lick except for touchdowns."

themsu97

12-19-2006, 11:57 AM

Rex Grossman may have been in the league 4 years but this is his first full year, so he is still a rookie in many regards... know your facts...
I remember distinctly a rookie named Vick who set the world and league on fire, even beat Green Bay in a playoff game at Green Bay,
league adjusted, defenses adjusted and now the defenses are making him throw the ball... Vick has a cannon, no touch...
I remember at a camp once and the kids asked Brian Urlacher who was the hardest qb to sack, which some of the kids stated Michael Vick, to which Urlacher stated, "Not for Me"... he said in this league we can all run and after awhile the defenses know how to make a guy make plays with his mind and arm...
VY's biggest advantage that Carr never had is Norm Chow, if VY does not progress under him, then we know who is at fault...
and yes, some of you have a man crush on VY...

Phil C

12-19-2006, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by themsu97
Rex Grossman may have been in the league 4 years but this is his first full year, so he is still a rookie in many regards... know your facts...
I remember distinctly a rookie named Vick who set the world and league on fire, even beat Green Bay in a playoff game at Green Bay,
league adjusted, defenses adjusted and now the defenses are making him throw the ball... Vick has a cannon, no touch...
I remember at a camp once and the kids asked Brian Urlacher who was the hardest qb to sack, which some of the kids stated Michael Vick, to which Urlacher stated, "Not for Me"... he said in this league we can all run and after awhile the defenses know how to make a guy make plays with his mind and arm...
VY's biggest advantage that Carr never had is Norm Chow, if VY does not progress under him, then we know who is at fault...
and yes, some of you have a man crush on VY...

DON'T INSULT THE VINCE YOUNG FANS!

:mad: :mad: :mad:

themsu97

12-19-2006, 12:03 PM

what, to compare him to the one qb comparable to him, Vick... and Vick of course did not win a national championship in college, largely due to the fact that his team was not nearly as talented as VY's team...
think of that draft, the Chargers traded that pick and the Falcons took Vick, and all the Chargers recieved was Tomlinson and Brees... not bad

BTEXDAD

12-19-2006, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by themsu97

VY's biggest advantage that Carr never had is Norm Chow, if VY does not progress under him, then we know who is at fault...
and yes, some of you have a man crush on VY...

Please, themsu97, you're showing your ignorance of the NFL. I'm not disputing that Chow is considered a good coach and developer of QBs, but Kubiak was recognized as one of the best offensive coordinators in the game b4 99% of NFL had even heard of Chow.

stxfootballfan

12-19-2006, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Tell that to the other guy who brought up the idea that Young was a better passing QB in college than Matt Leinart....

Im a big Vince fan and have followed him since his sr of HS but i wouldnt say he was a better passer than Matt in college They were both great college players and I think they are both doing a good job as Rookies starting in the NFL

themsu97

12-19-2006, 12:44 PM

ignorance... now you are showing yours... everyone with any knowledge of football knows who Norm Chow is... most also know that Palmer killed Couch, and then look what he and Capers did to Carr... I am not comparing the two, would not be fair to either... Carr had to start with a franchise from scratch, not an ideal situation for anyone...
not comparing the two either, but I do remember not too long ago that a qb in Tampa was considered overrated and people wanted out of the league then he went to San Francisco and had a good career, Steve Young...
not that Carr is Young, all I am saying is you never know and there is not a qb right now that could help the Texans, even VY...

stxfootballfan

12-19-2006, 12:47 PM

bulldogman06

12-19-2006, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by stxfootballfan
Tony Romo could do it!:)

you must be joking.... Romo is on a very talented team that has no real weakness other than the line in some cases. The Texans have more holes than swiss cheese, Carr basically only has Andre Johnson.

themsu97

12-19-2006, 01:39 PM

what is even more amazing... the game this past weekend had Todd Wade on a team doing a phenominal job on the line... he did not perform in Texas...

bulldogman06

12-19-2006, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by LitanyofFury
Why is everyone making a big deal out of Vince having ONE FREAKING MORE INT THAN TDs?!?! Rex Grossman has about 50 INTs right now and that fool has been in the NFL 3-4 years. Nevermind the fact that several of Vince's INTs have been garbage picks caused by Norm Chow calling for him to bomb it out at the end of the half instead of taking a knee (specifically the first game against the Colts).

It's extremely obvious that w/o Vince playing the Titans were going to tank the entire season and maybe win 2 games. People scoff at this, but he makes everyone else around him (offense AND defense) better.

Finally, look at the game rationally. Vince got what 4 possessions the entire game? 1 of those possessions he drove his team down the field and Bironas missed a FG. Then, the next time they got back in was late in the 4th, up by 2 TDs, and they were on their own 1 yard line. Obviously they were just trying to run out the clock and weren't trying to make plays.

Also, Vince has terrible receivers. . .and even they were hurt! Bo Scaife was out, Ben Troupe was out. . .Travis Henry was a gametime decision to play and so he wasn't anywhere near 100%.

Some of you don't want Vince to get all the praise but at the same time you want him to get all the blame for the offensive struggles. So what. . .he had a bad game where he hardly saw the field. Guess what? He didn't turn the ball over and cost his team the game. Leinart threw 2 picks against the Broncos which directly contributed to the Cardinals losing that game. Rex Grossman throws about 3 picks a game which has cost his teams games at times. Brett Favre threw 3 picks himself Sunday while breaking records and made the game a lot closer than it needed to be.

We've all been saying that Vince needs time to develop. However, that doesn't mean that he isn't spectacular already. He's winning and his team is still in the playoff hunt which is more than what a LOT of QBs in the league can say. In fact, most people admit right now that if the Titans had stuck Vince in sooner the Titans would be headed to the playoffs even tho they have absolutely no stars on that team (Vince and Pacman)and their defense is terrible.

I think a lot of you are overstating how much praise we Vince "clones" are giving him. Of course Phil is all hot on him, but this guy is hot on EVERYTHING burnt orange so just ignore him.:D

Wow, Grossman has 50 INTS? he has 22 TD and 17 INT, in 14 games. lets compare that with Vince... who has 10 TD and 11 INT in 11 games started adn 13 games played in.... I would take Grossman over Young this year if we only go by those stats. "That fool" Grossman has been in the league longer, but this is his first official year to be the unanimous starter. Oh and Vince got 4 possesions, ok, on his last possesion he did one of the worst things he could of done other than just to give the ball to them. He threw it... to nobody at all, it was just a ball thrown away. WHY? they could have run another 40 seconds off the clock but instead he throws it to an open spot on the field. that was horrible. They definitely could have lost that game because of it. Haha and then you say Grossmann throws 3 picks a game, costing his team games... how many have they lost? oh yea, 2.

And my favorite part, "I think a lot of you are overstating how much praise we Vince "clones" are giving him. Of course Phil is all hot on him, but this guy is hot on EVERYTHING burnt orange so just ignore him.:D" NO, we are not overstating it, when you say you would rather have VY than Grossmann this year, or you say he makes the defense play better (HOW?!?!), and Phil praises everyone, no matter what color uniform they wear. it is you who throw out false facts and make ridiculous statements that make us all mad about VY. I like him, and I think he will be special, but he isnt yet, so please dont tell me he is.

BTEXDAD

12-19-2006, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by themsu97
ignorance... now you are showing yours... everyone with any knowledge of football knows who Norm Chow is... most also know that Palmer killed Couch, and then look what he and Capers did to Carr... I am not comparing the two, would not be fair to either... Carr had to start with a franchise from scratch, not an ideal situation for anyone...
not comparing the two either, but I do remember not too long ago that a qb in Tampa was considered overrated and people wanted out of the league then he went to San Francisco and had a good career, Steve Young...
not that Carr is Young, all I am saying is you never know and there is not a qb right now that could help the Texans, even VY...

You're changing your statement. Your weren't comparing Young and Carr in previous statement.
You said Carr doesn't have anyone like Norm Chow. My statement was that Kubiak is considered a better offensive mind and developer of talent than Chow. (of course that may not be the same thinking after this season).
That's reason that Kubiak had offers as head coach at several colleges and is now head coach in Nfl while chow was not hired for head coach job at stanford and why he's still just an assistant. Because he's NOT considered as qualified a coach as Kubiak.

themsu97

12-19-2006, 03:55 PM

Kubiak has a track record... Chow is still considered a genius as far as qb's go, ie Palmer and Leinart... Young can only get better with Chow... also Young is fresh out of college...
Kubiak has to undo what Capers damaged... that will take more time and Kubiak may not be patient enough...

BTEXDAD

12-19-2006, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by themsu97
Kubiak has a track record... Chow is still considered a genius as far as qb's go, ie Palmer and Leinart... Young can only get better with Chow... also Young is fresh out of college...
Kubiak has to undo what Capers damaged... that will take more time and Kubiak may not be patient enough...

I can agree with you there. Chow really has done well everywhere he's been. Credited with developing Young (steve), Jim Mcmahon and several of the other QBs at BYU. I was simply trying to make point that Kubiak has an even better reputation (so far). But you are right in that Carr had played 4 yrs prior to Kubiak coming to Houston.

Kubiak seems like pretty good guy and I'm sure he'd like to give Carr another year to become familiar with system, but there are some serious rumblings in H-town that don't want that.
I'm UT and VY fan, but if you look at my old posts pre 2006 nfl draft, I was one of those saying trade down from #1 and get more picks. Don't need Bush or Young (although I wanted Young b4 bush if it was one or the other).
I thought Carr would greatly improve with Kubiak. It just hasn't happened and with Domanick Davis going down, fans pretty much feel that either Bush or Young would have been better than what they got.
Things still need to play out to see who did best in draft, but natives are restless in Houston. They're willing to give Kubiak some time, but it sounds like not too many are interested in giving more time to Carr.
Last two games will make or break Houston careers for quite a few Texan players, I'm afraid, and some are pretty much gone already.
It's been one of those years for Texans. Colts werent playing well for a few weeks, but looked really good Monday nite. Just the Texans luck that Colts come in playing well and still fighting for second bye in AFC. It would be great to see a Texans victory, but will be tough.

LitanyofFury

12-19-2006, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by bulldogman06
Wow, Grossman has 50 INTS? he has 22 TD and 17 INT, in 14 games. lets compare that with Vince... who has 10 TD and 11 INT in 11 games started adn 13 games played in.... I would take Grossman over Young this year if we only go by those stats. "That fool" Grossman has been in the league longer, but this is his first official year to be the unanimous starter. Oh and Vince got 4 possesions, ok, on his last possesion he did one of the worst things he could of done other than just to give the ball to them. He threw it... to nobody at all, it was just a ball thrown away. WHY? they could have run another 40 seconds off the clock but instead he throws it to an open spot on the field. that was horrible. They definitely could have lost that game because of it. Haha and then you say Grossmann throws 3 picks a game, costing his team games... how many have they lost? oh yea, 2.

And my favorite part, "I think a lot of you are overstating how much praise we Vince "clones" are giving him. Of course Phil is all hot on him, but this guy is hot on EVERYTHING burnt orange so just ignore him.:D" NO, we are not overstating it, when you say you would rather have VY than Grossmann this year, or you say he makes the defense play better (HOW?!?!), and Phil praises everyone, no matter what color uniform they wear. it is you who throw out false facts and make ridiculous statements that make us all mad about VY. I like him, and I think he will be special, but he isnt yet, so please dont tell me he is.

Listen, if you want me to go find the clip of Vince's teammates all raving about how awesome he is I will, it was on Orangebloods just the other day. After this last game Pacman and guys on the defense straight up said that having Vince around makes them play harder. They know that with him they have a chance to win every game and so they're motivated.

My point about Grossman is that he's been sitting and learning in the league for 4 years and he still makes a TON of mistakes. Brett Favre is one of the top 5 all-time QBs and he STILL makes a LOT of mistakes. Vince isn't screwing his team over and you know he's only going to get better. Also. . .let's stick Grossman on the Titans and see how many wins and losses he has. The only reason the Bears are 12-2 is because of their defense which is now starting to fade down the stretch.

And I'm the one supposedly throwing out false facts and ridiculous statements? Go look up the passer rating of Vince and Matty Whineart in college when Matt was a SENIOR and Vince was a JUNIOR. . .it's called passing efficiency. I'll give you one guess as to which one was better. Here's a hint. . .it wasn't the guy taking ballroom dancing classes.

Seriously tho, I don't need to defend Vince. The guy has led his terrible team to 3 comeback victories and 5 wins in a row and he's still got them in the playoff hunt. I'd take him anyday of the week and twice on Sundays just because of the leadership aspect and fire he brings to a football team. Guys like him and WANT to play well when they're around him.

EDIT: And don't lie Bulldog. . .we all know you made this site since YOU'RE the one with the VY man crush.

Someone is a tad jealous... (http://www.vinceyoungsucks.com/)

themsu97

12-19-2006, 04:23 PM

Vince was a redshirt junior... Matt was a true senior... makes them the same age with the same amount of time in the system... take off the orange colored glasses... all we are saying is that VY is not the end all be all... Applewhite was a winner, Ken Dorsey was a winner...

LitanyofFury

12-19-2006, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by themsu97
Vince was a redshirt junior... Matt was a true senior... makes them the same age with the same amount of time in the system... take off the orange colored glasses... all we are saying is that VY is not the end all be all... Applewhite was a winner, Ken Dorsey was a winner...

And neither made it to the NFL. . .well, Dorsey did as a 6-7th round draft pick who never saw the field.

And when have I ever said Vince was the be all and end all? You guys sure do have some wild imaginations. I specifically said Vince had a long way to go in his maturation process as a passer, etc.

Thanks for playing tho!

BTEXDAD

12-19-2006, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by themsu97
Vince was a redshirt junior... Matt was a true senior... makes them the same age with the same amount of time in the system... take off the orange colored glasses... all we are saying is that VY is not the end all be all... Applewhite was a winner, Ken Dorsey was a winner...

2001: Leinart redshirted as a freshman quarterback in 2001, his first year at USC. He spent the season as the co-backup to Carson Palmer, although he never got into a game.

Fifth yr senior, themsu97. VY was 4th yr jr.

themsu97

12-19-2006, 04:35 PM

just read some of the stuff you put out there... saying that Vince is better than most of the guys mentioned... just wait and see... his maturation better include becoming a pocket passer and making the correct reads... it will not be long before defenses catch up...
college is just that college, there is no exact science to the draft... Rodney Peete was considered a better qb out of college than Troy Aikman and we all know how that turned out... people said that Emmit was too slow to be a running back in the NFL, Payton did not play big time college ball...
10 games does not a stud make...
and exactly how was that a come back against the Texans, last I saw the Titans were up 20-17 when Carr led the Texans back on a game tying field goal, see, more made up stats to make Young look better...
thanks for playing tho

themsu97

12-19-2006, 04:38 PM

I read where Leinart was not red shirted, he started as the back up... i will go back and look, could be wrong info... what team would you rather be qbing for right now, Houston, Tennesee or Arizona?
bet most of you would say the Titans...
Tennessee is better than being in Oakland though... so that disproves the theory that a defense makes a great team... the Raiders are like 5th in the league in defense so Grossman has to account for something...
learn to manage the game is all you have to do...

LitanyofFury

12-19-2006, 04:42 PM

Of course we'll have to wait and see. Heck, VY might go out and break his leg in the next game (God forbid) or something. Still, he's done some awesome things already as a rookie so you gotta think the future is bright.

Here's the link to what I was talking about. On the right-hand side you'll see a video box. Use the little arrows to scroll right a ways until you see Albert Haynesworth's fat face. The caption will say 'Titans Sing VY's Praises'.

Those guys love him already and he hasn't even been in an entire season.Titan Players Love Vince (http://newschannel5.com/Global/category.asp?C=85076&nav=menu374_5)

BTEXDAD

12-19-2006, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by themsu97
just read some of the stuff you put out there... saying that Vince is better than most of the guys mentioned... just wait and see... his maturation better include becoming a pocket passer and making the correct reads... it will not be long before defenses catch up...
and exactly how was that a come back against the Texans, last I saw the Titans were up 20-17 when Carr led the Texans back on a game tying field goal, see, more made up stats to make Young look better...
thanks for playing tho

Texans were ahead of Titans 14-6 in third qtr and 17-13 in 4th qtr. Let's see :thinking: If Titans are behind, that would mean they've got to come from behind to win.
Look at the stuff you're writing b4 you start calling someone else out.
That comment you made earlier (which I've already corrected once) about VY being redshirt jr and Leinart being TRUE senior is completely false. Leinart was in his fifth year at usc and his 5th year in the program.

BTEXDAD

12-19-2006, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by themsu97
I read where Leinart was not red shirted, he started as the back up... i will go back and look, could be wrong info... what team would you rather be qbing for right now, Houston, Tennesee or Arizona?
bet most of you would say the Titans...
Tennessee is better than being in Oakland though... so that disproves the theory that a defense makes a great team... the Raiders are like 5th in the league in defense so Grossman has to account for something...
learn to manage the game is all you have to do...

before the season, titans were picked to be behind Texans.

Here's the USC link about Leinart. He had to have been redshirted. No matter what he made on his wonderlic, he wasn't smart enough to graduate in 3 yrs and just take ball room dancing his 4th.

http://usctrojans.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/leinart_matt00.html

LitanyofFury

12-19-2006, 04:58 PM

For those of you that don't wanna scroll down through that prissy boy's bio.;)

'Leinart redshirted as a freshman quarterback in 2001, his first year at USC.'

I think "thesmu" has been fairly owned on this topic. Leave the debating up to people that make a halfway decent argument like g$$.:p

EDIT: And all the "Experts" were picking Arizona to be in the playoffs this year. Whoops!

g$$

12-19-2006, 06:29 PM

Originally posted by themsu97
Rex Grossman may have been in the league 4 years but this is his first full year, so he is still a rookie in many regards... know your facts...
I remember distinctly a rookie named Vick who set the world and league on fire, even beat Green Bay in a playoff game at Green Bay,
league adjusted, defenses adjusted and now the defenses are making him throw the ball... Vick has a cannon, no touch...
I remember at a camp once and the kids asked Brian Urlacher who was the hardest qb to sack, which some of the kids stated Michael Vick, to which Urlacher stated, "Not for Me"... he said in this league we can all run and after awhile the defenses know how to make a guy make plays with his mind and arm...
VY's biggest advantage that Carr never had is Norm Chow, if VY does not progress under him, then we know who is at fault...
and yes, some of you have a man crush on VY...

It takes a fellow Brazoria County guy to come with facts, good job buddy. At that level, everybody can scoot, so you better have more in the bag. :clap:

g$$

12-19-2006, 06:35 PM

Originally posted by BTEXDAD
Please, themsu97, you're showing your ignorance of the NFL. I'm not disputing that Chow is considered a good coach and developer of QBs, but Kubiak was recognized as one of the best offensive coordinators in the game b4 99% of NFL had even heard of Chow.

That is not true. Norm Chow made his name developing qbs at BYU under Lavell Edwards. Guys like McMahon, Wilson, Bosco, Detmer, Nielsen, & others. Anyone who knows anything about football has known Chow for many years, long beofre USC. He chose to stay in college hoping for a HC job until he gave Tennessee a shot with old buddy Jeff Fisher.

LitanyofFury

12-19-2006, 06:39 PM

Originally posted by g$$
It takes a fellow Brazoria County guy to come with facts, good job buddy. At that level, everybody can scoot, so you better have more in the bag. :clap:

Then obviously the Texans need to work on that because Vince "scooted" past their entire team including the #1 draft pick for a 40 yard TD in OT. He's also "scooted" his way to 500 yards and 5 TDs which is more than Reggie Bush.;)

And I think you're mistaking facts with opinions. Not surprised tho considering what part of the state both of you hail from.:D

g$$

12-19-2006, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by LitanyofFury
Then obviously the Texans need to work on that because Vince "scooted" past their entire team including the #1 draft pick for a 40 yard TD in OT. He's also "scooted" his way to 500 yards and 5 TDs which is more than Reggie Bush.;)

And I think you're mistaking facts with opinions. Not surprised tho considering what part of the state both of you hail from.:D

You bet West TX Longhorn, Abiliene has more churches than people. Keep it! That place shakes when you fly over it.

I respect VY, just saying he is far from a finished product.

BTW, Brazoria County is south of Houston (Harris County).

LitanyofFury

12-19-2006, 07:06 PM

Originally posted by g$$
You bet West TX Longhorn, Abiliene has more churches than people. Keep it! That place shakes when you fly over it.

I respect VY, just saying he is far from a finished product.

BTW, Brazoria County is south of Houston (Harris County).

Dunno who that guy is, but I do know that the "parts" of Texas are pretty big. So, if someone was addressing me and talked about the "part" of Texas I was from they'd be talking about people anywhere from here on out to El Paso and up past Lubbock.

And you're definitely right! VY is VERY far from a finished product. Pretty scary tho, huh? He's already winning games now. . .no telling what he'll do when he gets it all down and perfected.

Old Tiger

12-19-2006, 07:08 PM

carter08

12-19-2006, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by LitanyofFury
Dunno who that guy is, but I do know that the "parts" of Texas are pretty big. So, if someone was addressing me and talked about the "part" of Texas I was from they'd be talking about people anywhere from here on out to El Paso and up past Lubbock.

And you're definitely right! VY is VERY far from a finished product. Pretty scary tho, huh? He's already winning games now. . .no telling what he'll do when he gets it all down and perfected.

You just admitted to it in another thread

LitanyofFury

12-19-2006, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by carter08
You just admitted to it in another thread

Admitted to what and where?

necks_c/09

12-19-2006, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Vince Young this, Vince Young that. Why is it that everyone is in love with VY? There are ten other players on offense and a whole other set of eleven players on defense. Without a decent offensive line, backs, and receivers to catch the ball, Young would be absolutely nothing. Texas did well with a freshman quarterback at the helm, who did many things that VY didn't do when he first started leading the Longhorns. Since VY is God's gift to earth and always has been, what does that say about Colt McCoy? McCoy started off better than Young, so doesn't that mean he's going to be better than Vince?

im about to answer all ur lil' questions.......

Everyone is in love w/ young for the same reason their in love w/ Romo. It's a canderella story b/c when they came in their teams won, its that simple. He's a diffence maker.....

They had these same players when volek was playing for them but did he win? No. You say no b/c of injuries, but how much healthier can u get than the beginning of the season?

Fact is the whole team is playing w/ more confidence. The offense is playing better and the defense is playing better and its translating to wins. I just wanna know y u dont like him. Just sounds like ur a hater to me....but thats just my opinion.

Oh and by the way, what Qb would be something if they had no O-line, backs, and recievers?

Duh!

ur comparing young to McCoy......Texas had 3 or 4 losses this season and didnt make the big 12 championship game but w/ young they went undefeated and won a championship game....

yeah he started out great but that doesnt mean anything for the future.......

BTEXDAD

12-20-2006, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by g$$
That is not true. Norm Chow made his name developing qbs at BYU under Lavell Edwards. Guys like McMahon, Wilson, Bosco, Detmer, Nielsen, & others. Anyone who knows anything about football has known Chow for many years, long beofre USC. He chose to stay in college hoping for a HC job until he gave Tennessee a shot with old buddy Jeff Fisher.
He did help develop these QBs and some of them did well in pros.
However, although BYU won the national championship in 1984, it was recognized for many years as simply a strong college offensive football program much like Texas Tech has been for the past few years. Tech coach, Leach, won't get many if any calls from Nfl to be hired as coach or offensive coordinator just as Chow didn't get them for years. Chow was thought of for years as simply a good "college" offensive coordinator, just as leach is.
Chow finally got into a high profile program at USC and was able to reverse some of the thinking about himself.
My statement to thesmu was that Kubiak was considered one of the best offensive coordinators in nfl before 99% of NFL had heard of chow.
It may have been too strong a statement on my part to say that 99% had never heard of Chow, and I'll back down on that, but 99% of the NFL wasn't interested in giving him job while 100% of them would have hired Kubiak as offensive coordinator already back in the 90's.
Chow may very well change the thinking of his former NFL doubters though.
When I made statement, I was responding to thesmu's comment that VY had a better offensive coach in Chow than Carr did (in Kubiak). I did acknowledge in a later post that for four years carr didn't have a top flight off coordinator and Kubiak may never be able to get him back on the right track.

themsu97

12-20-2006, 10:49 AM

most of y'all read only what you want and that is fine...all I am saying is that VY is not the end all be all and he is not the greatest...right now all he has is potential...
there are more than one factor to why the Titans are winning... defense is the main reason... how many td's does Pacman Jones have right now... his punt and kickoff returns are playing a huge part...
VY's td against the Texans was a bad call on d, blitz 7 and then man to man...
right now, i would still want Leinart, what he did against the Bears was outstanding...
and I would rather have been on the Titans than the other two...
all I am saying is get over your man crush on the guy...
and I do bring facts to the table and I would not say that ya'll are the experts either...
that would be a very moronic statement...
actually have met VY several times...
and he does have the advantage on Carr for being with Chow so early and his team does not have the problems that the Texans have

Phil C

12-20-2006, 10:54 AM

Soon to be IQ question:

Vince Young is to ______
as Michael Jordan is to Basketball!

There will be a variety of answers but choose football.

:)

themsu97

12-20-2006, 11:20 AM

would not count on it...
ie... see Atlanta- michael Vick
just use the same analogy...
the league wants so bad to have a qb to do all that and it just has not equated, because eventually a qb has to make reads and throw the football downfield...

Jordan is another interesting fellow...
which brings the next question...
what makes someone great, because they win? or because they changed the way the game was played...
because if it is championships didn't Russell win 11,
and if it is the latter, well then julius erving took the game to a new level

stxfootballfan

12-20-2006, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by themsu97

right now, i would still want Leinart, what he did against the Bears was outstanding...

Bears D is over rated, Most of their wins are from teams with a less than .500 winning % Everyone will see in the playoffs that Dennis Green was right "The Bears are exactly who we thought they were!"

themsu97

12-20-2006, 11:37 AM

they cannot cover very well and if the front four does not get there they can be exposed... and that front four is hurting without Tommy Harris... and now they will not have Tank Johnson for a while it apprears

bulldogman06

12-20-2006, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by LitanyofFury
Listen, if you want me to go find the clip of Vince's teammates all raving about how awesome he is I will, it was on Orangebloods just the other day. After this last game Pacman and guys on the defense straight up said that having Vince around makes them play harder. They know that with him they have a chance to win every game and so they're motivated.

My point about Grossman is that he's been sitting and learning in the league for 4 years and he still makes a TON of mistakes. Brett Favre is one of the top 5 all-time QBs and he STILL makes a LOT of mistakes. Vince isn't screwing his team over and you know he's only going to get better. Also. . .let's stick Grossman on the Titans and see how many wins and losses he has. The only reason the Bears are 12-2 is because of their defense which is now starting to fade down the stretch.

And I'm the one supposedly throwing out false facts and ridiculous statements? Go look up the passer rating of Vince and Matty Whineart in college when Matt was a SENIOR and Vince was a JUNIOR. . .it's called passing efficiency. I'll give you one guess as to which one was better. Here's a hint. . .it wasn't the guy taking ballroom dancing classes.

Seriously tho, I don't need to defend Vince. The guy has led his terrible team to 3 comeback victories and 5 wins in a row and he's still got them in the playoff hunt. I'd take him anyday of the week and twice on Sundays just because of the leadership aspect and fire he brings to a football team. Guys like him and WANT to play well when they're around him.

EDIT: And don't lie Bulldog. . .we all know you made this site since YOU'RE the one with the VY man crush.

Someone is a tad jealous... (http://www.vinceyoungsucks.com/)

Wow, moron I have already said, I like VY, he will be great, im not jealous, im just tired of hearin how great he is already, he is a rookie, makin rookie mistakes, his crap still stinks, etc. he will be great, but right now he isnt yet. you say, "I'd take him anyday of the week and twice on Sundays just because of the leadership aspect and fire he brings to a football team." Id take 15 qbs over him, in no order, the manning bros, Brees, Rivers, Palmer, McNaab, Bulger, Brady, Hasselback, Favre, Green, Roethlisberger, Delhomme, Pennington, and McNair. In a few years, maybe none of them, but right now, he is still a rookie

Emerson1

12-20-2006, 01:55 PM

McNabb is the most overrated player in the league.

bulldogman06

12-20-2006, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by Emerson1
McNabb is the most overrated player in the league.

I thought so before this year, but he did impress me before he got hurt

themsu97

12-20-2006, 02:18 PM

McNabb is not overrated... very good qb...

Highschoolfan78

12-20-2006, 02:24 PM

Daunte Culpepper is over-rated.. not mcnabb

3afan

12-20-2006, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by themsu97
McNabb is not overrated... very good qb...

apparently Garcia is just as good ..............

themsu97

12-20-2006, 02:32 PM

Garcia has been to the pro bowl and for a stint of about 4 years was one of the top qb's in the league... how we quickly forget... Garcia knows how to manage a game... one of the knocks on Carr is just that...

Phil C

12-20-2006, 02:35 PM

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20061210/capt.7f180352454c4a3eb8785c4c7592b1f7.titans_texan s_football_htt117.jpg

g$$

12-20-2006, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by themsu97
would not count on it...
ie... see Atlanta- michael Vick
just use the same analogy...
the league wants so bad to have a qb to do all that and it just has not equated, because eventually a qb has to make reads and throw the football downfield...

Jordan is another interesting fellow...
which brings the next question...
what makes someone great, because they win? or because they changed the way the game was played...
because if it is championships didn't Russell win 11,
and if it is the latter, well then julius erving took the game to a new level

Great post, & I love Dr. J & he did change the way the game is played when he broke into the old ABA, then over to the NBA. But, Jordan took it from there & became a global icon. Fashion even changed with Jordan & the long shorts. Heck, the NBA was never better than with Bird, Magic, & Jordan. Bird was my all-time favorite. Bill Russell was great too & has 11 rings, but he also had Cousy, Havlicek, Jones, etc. to help him out. Russell is probably the greatest defensive player of all time. Good stuff.

LitanyofFury

12-20-2006, 04:58 PM

Originally posted by bulldogman06
Wow, moron I have already said, I like VY, he will be great, im not jealous, im just tired of hearin how great he is already, he is a rookie, makin rookie mistakes, his crap still stinks, etc. he will be great, but right now he isnt yet. you say, "I'd take him anyday of the week and twice on Sundays just because of the leadership aspect and fire he brings to a football team." Id take 15 qbs over him, in no order, the manning bros, Brees, Rivers, Palmer, McNaab, Bulger, Brady, Hasselback, Favre, Green, Roethlisberger, Delhomme, Pennington, and McNair. In a few years, maybe none of them, but right now, he is still a rookie

Hey, it's all opinion around here so you don't need to resort to personal attacks. That's just childish.

Also, maybe YOU'RE tired of hearing about Vince, but obviously the rest of the nation isn't. He's an alternate for the Pro-Bowl, he's won the ROY award three times more than any other rookie, he's gotten more SI covers than any other player since Michael Jordan. So, congrats on being in the minority. Also, congrats on you wanting to take "15 other quarterbacks over him." Most objective people would admit that if you stuck any of those other QBs on the Titans they'd still stink. Vince is a leader and his team mates love him. Oh, and by the way. . .he beat BOTH the Manning kids. Whoops. And that's an asinine argument considering you're comparing a TRUE NFL rookie QB to guys that have been in the league for years. I mean, do I really need to compare Vince's numbers to all-time greats like Elway, Aikman, etc.?

Hrm. . .Vince's crap still stinks? He's broken the record for rushing yards by a rookie QB. He's lead his team to 5 wins ina row. He's got better numbers than Leinart and Gradkowski the other rookie QBs. What? You don't believe me?

Matt Leinart 205 364 2385 56.3 w/ 10 TDs passing to 12 INTs

Vince Young 156 301 1789 51.8 w/ 10 TDs passing to 11 INTs + 463 yards rushing and 5 TDs.

He's definitely a strong candidate for the rookie of the year award, too.

If you don't like hearing about him. . .here's a hint. . .don't read the threads! I haven't seen one yet that was disguised so you didn't know it was about Vince. Seems like you're just a tad bitter. Nevermind that you never bring any FACTS to the table to back up your inane ramblings.

Actually, it's rather fun ticking you off over this stuff. You take this stuff just a tad too seriously and when you post it looks like you're genuinely upset. It's just a game. It's just a forum. You can quit at anytime if it ain't workin' for ya!

Vince is doing just fine (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=smith_michael&id=2703350&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab5pos1) ;)

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

12-20-2006, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by LitanyofFury
Hey, it's all opinion around here so you don't need to resort to personal attacks. That's just childish.

Also, maybe YOU'RE tired of hearing about Vince, but obviously the rest of the nation isn't. He's an alternate for the Pro-Bowl, he's won the ROY award three times more than any other rookie, he's gotten more SI covers than any other player since Michael Jordan. So, congrats on being in the minority. Also, congrats on you wanting to take "15 other quarterbacks over him." Most objective people would admit that if you stuck any of those other QBs on the Titans they'd still stink. Vince is a leader and his team mates love him. Oh, and by the way. . .he beat BOTH the Manning kids. Whoops. And that's an asinine argument considering you're comparing a TRUE NFL rookie QB to guys that have been in the league for years. I mean, do I really need to compare Vince's numbers to all-time greats like Elway, Aikman, etc.?

Hrm. . .Vince's crap still stinks? He's broken the record for rushing yards by a rookie QB. He's lead his team to 5 wins ina row. He's got better numbers than Leinart and Gradkowski the other rookie QBs. What? You don't believe me?

Matt Leinart 205 364 2385 56.3 w/ 10 TDs passing to 12 INTs

Vince Young 156 301 1789 51.8 w/ 10 TDs passing to 11 INTs + 463 yards rushing and 5 TDs.

He's definitely a strong candidate for the rookie of the year award, too.

If you don't like hearing about him. . .here's a hint. . .don't read the threads! I haven't seen one yet that was disguised so you didn't know it was about Vince. Seems like you're just a tad bitter. Nevermind that you never bring any FACTS to the table to back up your inane ramblings.

Actually, it's rather fun ticking you off over this stuff. You take this stuff just a tad too seriously and when you post it looks like you're genuinely upset. It's just a game. It's just a forum. You can quit at anytime if it ain't workin' for ya!

Vince is doing just fine (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=smith_michael&id=2703350&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab5pos1) ;)

Apparently you lost sight on what this argument was started over. It was simply that there are other people on the team besides VY, and he did not win them the game this past Sunday, but despite all of that, everyone is trying to make it out like he's better than he is and gives him all the credit for the wins when he doesn't deserve it. The facts are simple, he's not as good as everyone gives him credit for and he is overrated. Nobody is really bitter about anything except for you, my only reason for posting anything on this thread is in hope that people will reach in, grab both ears, and pull their head out of their butts and see what is actually going on here. Young is not the best quarterback in the league, and he never will be. I remember the exact same hype being brought up for Vick when he came into the league, and he started off strong, but look at him now. Vick is even better than Young is. The Titans won a couple of fluke games, notably against the Colts, and if the DL from the Giants would have finished the play, they would have lost there, also. The defense literally won the game last week, scoring more points than the other team by themselves. I hope that even you could see that, and also realize that Young is nowhere near the quarterback that Peyton Manning is, so there is no need to even compare the two. Young couldn't carry Manning's, Favre's, or Aikman's jock strap, so quit acting like he can. I didn't hear anyone saying that Steve McNair was the reason that the Titans were winning games last season or the season before that, or even the season before that, so why is it that you can take a team of similar composition and say that Young is the reason that they win, even when he has little to do with the outcome? Wise up people.

LitanyofFury

12-20-2006, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Apparently you lost sight on what this argument was started over. It was simply that there are other people on the team besides VY, and he did not win them the game this past Sunday, but despite all of that, everyone is trying to make it out like he's better than he is and gives him all the credit for the wins when he doesn't deserve it. The facts are simple, he's not as good as everyone gives him credit for and he is overrated. Nobody is really bitter about anything except for you, my only reason for posting anything on this thread is in hope that people will reach in, grab both ears, and pull their head out of their butts and see what is actually going on here. Young is not the best quarterback in the league, and he never will be. I remember the exact same hype being brought up for Vick when he came into the league, and he started off strong, but look at him now. Vick is even better than Young is. The Titans won a couple of fluke games, notably against the Colts, and if the DL from the Giants would have finished the play, they would have lost there, also. The defense literally won the game last week, scoring more points than the other team by themselves. I hope that even you could see that, and also realize that Young is nowhere near the quarterback that Peyton Manning is, so there is no need to even compare the two. Young couldn't carry Manning's, Favre's, or Aikman's jock strap, so quit acting like he can. I didn't hear anyone saying that Steve McNair was the reason that the Titans were winning games last season or the season before that, or even the season before that, so why is it that you can take a team of similar composition and say that Young is the reason that they win, even when he has little to do with the outcome? Wise up people.

So were the 1-point losses to the Colts and the Ravens "fluke" losses?:confused:

Seriously. . .before the season started could you even name 5 guys on the Titans football team? I don't think anyone here ever said it was 100% Vince. However, since the Titans defense is dead last in the NFL and Vince's receivers are a bunch of nobodies I think he's carrying his weight. Actually the past two seasons the Titans won 6 games and 4 games. So, Vince has already helped them improve on those marks.

So what about Peyton Manning? He's a great QB but he chokes under pressure. He hasn't won jack! Also, quit acting like just because Vince has all this hype that he isn't going to pan out. Elway had quite a bit of hype when he was a rookie as well as a lot of other great QBs.

What's sad is that I'm almost 100% sure you were one of the same guys saying Vince couldn't throw, and that Vince wouldn't win a title and beat USC, and that Vince wouldn't get drafted high, and that Vince wouldn't win any games in the NFL. It's like a broken record and then Vince makes you eat a new plate of crow every time. It's hilarious!

Please, someone archive this post for a few years down the road when the Titans are hoisting the Lombardi Trophy! And why don't you stop trying to convince people that Vince Young who won two Rose Bowl MVP awards, who won a title in college, who beat the greatest team of all time, who broke records, who got drafted #3 overall, who's won 7 games as a rookie, who's up for the ROY award, and who's an alternate for the Pro-Bowl isn't good. . .and maybe start trying to convince them that you aren't severely mentally disabled.;)

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

12-20-2006, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by LitanyofFury
So were the 1-point losses to the Colts and the Ravens "fluke" losses?:confused:

Seriously. . .before the season started could you even name 5 guys on the Titans football team? I don't think anyone here ever said it was 100% Vince. However, since the Titans defense is dead last in the NFL and Vince's receivers are a bunch of nobodies I think he's carrying his weight. Actually the past two seasons the Titans won 6 games and 4 games. So, Vince has already helped them improve on those marks.

So what about Peyton Manning? He's a great QB but he chokes under pressure. He hasn't won jack! Also, quit acting like just because Vince has all this hype that he isn't going to pan out. Elway had quite a bit of hype when he was a rookie as well as a lot of other great QBs.

What's sad is that I'm almost 100% sure you were one of the same guys saying Vince couldn't throw, and that Vince wouldn't win a title and beat USC, and that Vince wouldn't get drafted high, and that Vince wouldn't win any games in the NFL. It's like a broken record and then Vince makes you eat a new plate of crow every time. It's hilarious!

Please, someone archive this post for a few years down the road when the Titans are hoisting the Lombardi Trophy! And why don't you stop trying to convince people that Vince Young who won two Rose Bowl MVP awards, who won a title in college, who beat the greatest team of all time, who broke records, who got drafted #3 overall, who's won 7 games as a rookie, who's up for the ROY award, and who's an alternate for the Pro-Bowl isn't good. . .and maybe start trying to convince them that you aren't severely mentally disabled.;)

I would take Peyton Manning on my team, starting QB, any day over Vince Young or any other quarterback in the NFL. Hype is something that isn't real, and that is all that is surrounding Young. I have yet to see anything that proves that he is great. He did good things in college, but this is a whole different level of football. All that aside, you are 100% wrong. I was born and raised a Longhorn fan, and supported the Longhorns all the way through last year. Since going to A&M this is the first thing that I have been anything but a Longhorn, and I am a proud Aggie now. I said that he had a poor throwing style in college, but I never doubted that the Longhorns would win a National Championship. That's right, I said Longhorns, that's plural. That means it was more than one person, but the only person who receives credit is Young. I never doubted that Young would get drafted high, nor did I doubt that he would win some games. Vince Young has yet to make me eat crow. Young has not won 7 games, the team that he has been on has, and maybe you should stop being so ignorant to that fact. He's an alternate for the Pro Bowl, that's being a better quarterback than how many people? It's all hype, the same hype that you are giving him, so are the sportwriters. To me, Vince Young is the Jackson Pollack of art, throw a bunch of paint incoherently on a canvas and when one person says it is a masterpiece, everyone jumps on the bandwagon. I never said that Young wasn't as good, but he's not as good as you or everyone else is trying to make him out to be. Look at the truth instead of what you perceive it to be. Football is a team sport, and Vince Young is not the entire team. I'm willing to give VY the credit he deserves, are you? Also, I can guarantee you 100% that I am more intelligent than you and my mind is working just fine. ;)

Old Tiger

12-20-2006, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
I would take Peyton Manning on my team, starting QB, any day over Vince Young or any other quarterback in the NFL. Hype is something that isn't real, and that is all that is surrounding Young. I have yet to see anything that proves that he is great. He did good things in college, but this is a whole different level of football. All that aside, you are 100% wrong. I was born and raised a Longhorn fan, and supported the Longhorns all the way through last year. Since going to A&M this is the first thing that I have been anything but a Longhorn, and I am a proud Aggie now. I said that he had a poor throwing style in college, but I never doubted that the Longhorns would win a National Championship. That's right, I said Longhorns, that's plural. That means it was more than one person, but the only person who receives credit is Young. I never doubted that Young would get drafted high, nor did I doubt that he would win some games. Vince Young has yet to make me eat crow. Young has not won 7 games, the team that he has been on has, and maybe you should stop being so ignorant to that fact. He's an alternate for the Pro Bowl, that's being a better quarterback than how many people? It's all hype, the same hype that you are giving him, so are the sportwriters. To me, Vince Young is the Jackson Pollack of art, throw a bunch of paint incoherently on a canvas and when one person says it is a masterpiece, everyone jumps on the bandwagon. I never said that Young wasn't as good, but he's not as good as you or everyone else is trying to make him out to be. Look at the truth instead of what you perceive it to be. Football is a team sport, and Vince Young is not the entire team. I'm willing to give VY the credit he deserves, are you? Also, I can guarantee you 100% that I am more intelligent than you and my mind is working just fine. ;) I'd take Tom Brady over Peyton Manning. He knows how to get it done in the post season but hey what do I know :p

You never doubted the Longhorns winning the NC because you were one before the conversion took playce :D:D:D:p

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

12-20-2006, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by Tiger WR
I'd take Tom Brady over Peyton Manning. He knows how to get it done in the post season but hey what do I know :p

You never doubted the Longhorns winning the NC because you were one before the conversion took playce :D:D:D:p

Tom Brady would be my backup to Manning....He knows how to win championships.

Old Tiger

12-20-2006, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Tom Brady would be my backup to Manning....He knows how to win championships. So your saying start Peyton till the playoffs then play Brady? :D:p Perfect logic!!! lol

stxfootballfan

12-20-2006, 06:02 PM

Philip Rivers has a poor throwing motion hes doing just fine, I dont see any reason Vince cant do just as good as Phillip once he gets better talent around him and more time with Norm Chow.

LitanyofFury

12-20-2006, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
I would take Peyton Manning on my team, starting QB, any day over Vince Young or any other quarterback in the NFL. Hype is something that isn't real, and that is all that is surrounding Young. I have yet to see anything that proves that he is great. He did good things in college, but this is a whole different level of football. All that aside, you are 100% wrong. I was born and raised a Longhorn fan, and supported the Longhorns all the way through last year. Since going to A&M this is the first thing that I have been anything but a Longhorn, and I am a proud Aggie now. I said that he had a poor throwing style in college, but I never doubted that the Longhorns would win a National Championship. That's right, I said Longhorns, that's plural. That means it was more than one person, but the only person who receives credit is Young. I never doubted that Young would get drafted high, nor did I doubt that he would win some games. Vince Young has yet to make me eat crow. Young has not won 7 games, the team that he has been on has, and maybe you should stop being so ignorant to that fact. He's an alternate for the Pro Bowl, that's being a better quarterback than how many people? It's all hype, the same hype that you are giving him, so are the sportwriters. To me, Vince Young is the Jackson Pollack of art, throw a bunch of paint incoherently on a canvas and when one person says it is a masterpiece, everyone jumps on the bandwagon. I never said that Young wasn't as good, but he's not as good as you or everyone else is trying to make him out to be. Look at the truth instead of what you perceive it to be. Football is a team sport, and Vince Young is not the entire team. I'm willing to give VY the credit he deserves, are you? Also, I can guarantee you 100% that I am more intelligent than you and my mind is working just fine. ;)

Yeah. Say it and it makes it so.:rolleyes:

Considering no one ever said it was all Vince and you just pulled that out of your butt to make your argument work. . .that's really intelligent. I applaud your sharp and stabbing wit. Obviously people who know just a tad bit more about football than you do think Vince is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Need I go and REPOST all the quotes from Norm Chow, Jeff Fisher, all the Titans players and fans. . .all the old NFL QBs that are raving about him? Yeah. ALL hype. Here's your gold star!

:thumbsup:

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

12-20-2006, 06:41 PM

Originally posted by LitanyofFury
Yeah. Say it and it makes it so.:rolleyes:

Considering no one ever said it was all Vince and you just pulled that out of your butt to make your argument work. . .that's really intelligent. I applaud your sharp and stabbing wit. Obviously people who know just a tad bit more about football than you do think Vince is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Need I go and REPOST all the quotes from Norm Chow, Jeff Fisher, all the Titans players and fans. . .all the old NFL QBs that are raving about him? Yeah. ALL hype. Here's your gold star!

:thumbsup:

So, from now on I should assume that when you say that Vince Young has won 7 straight games, I should assume that you really meant the Titans? I'm going by what you say at face value, not making up anything, so nice try. You don't need to repost any quotes from Jeff Fisher or the Titans fans or assistant coaches, of course they're going to talk him up and see a bright future for him. It is all hype, because I have yet to see any great results from him. The Titans winning a few games doesn't mean that they're Super Bowl bound and Young is the greatest quarterback who ever lived. :hand:

Come back and talk after Young has more touchdowns than interceptions and has a higher quarterback rating, completion percentage, rushing yards, and more total touchdowns than any quarterback who is currently in the league or has retired. Until then, quit acting like he already has.

g$$

12-20-2006, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
So, from now on I should assume that when you say that Vince Young has won 7 straight games, I should assume that you really meant the Titans? I'm going by what you say at face value, not making up anything, so nice try. You don't need to repost any quotes from Jeff Fisher or the Titans fans or assistant coaches, of course they're going to talk him up and see a bright future for him. It is all hype, because I have yet to see any great results from him. The Titans winning a few games doesn't mean that they're Super Bowl bound and Young is the greatest quarterback who ever lived. :hand:

Come back and talk after Young has more touchdowns than interceptions and has a higher quarterback rating, completion percentage, rushing yards, and more total touchdowns than any quarterback who is currently in the league or has retired. Until then, quit acting like he already has.

Don't fall into his web of deceit BBDE & Bulldog! Y'all are too smart for that. Learn from me previously! West TX is nothing but trouble & now just under a different name. He has a serious man crush/love for VY. Let him be. I bet his bed sheets have Horns & VY's signature on them. You know he "saw VY on campus a few times"! Whew hoo jock sniffer!

That being said, VY is a terrific talent & the future is bright. He must improve as a passer though to reach superstar status.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

12-20-2006, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by g$$
Don't fall into his web of deceit BBDE & Bulldog! Y'all are too smart for that. Learn from me previously! West TX is nothing but trouble & now just under a different name. He has a serious man crush/love for VY. Let him be. I bet his bed sheets have Horns & VY's signature on them. You know he "saw VY on campus a few times"! Whew hoo jock sniffer!

That being said, VY is a terrific talent & the future is bright. He must improve as a passer though to reach superstar status.

So, what you're trying to say is that LitanyofFury=WestTxLonghorn=DA?

g$$

12-20-2006, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
So, what you're trying to say is that LitanyofFury=WestTxLonghorn=DA?

You got it!! :)

LitanyofFury

12-20-2006, 07:12 PM

Looks like you fellas are the ones that have the man crush. . .on each other.

Again BBDE, why WOULDN'T the Titans have a chance at being Super Bowl bound? They've already won 7 games with a terrible team and could possibly win 9. Next year they have 11 draft picks and are $41 mill under the cap and most of their team is made up of younger players. Pretty good situation for any team.

And also again. . .never said Vince was the greatest ever. Just saying that he's performed very well and is already showing his leadership abilities and has a CHANCE at being a very good QB in the league.

g$$

12-20-2006, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by LitanyofFury
Looks like you fellas are the ones that have the man crush. . .on each other.

Again BBDE, why WOULDN'T the Titans have a chance at being Super Bowl bound? They've already won 7 games with a terrible team and could possibly win 9. Next year they have 11 draft picks and are $41 mill under the cap and most of their team is made up of younger players. Pretty good situation for any team.

And also again. . .never said Vince was the greatest ever. Just saying that he's performed very well and is already showing his leadership abilities and has a CHANCE at being a very good QB in the league.

Yeah, we all make posts about each other & sing around the campfire at night too. You are the only one who falls into that category in your man crush for all things VY. Have you seen him walking around Tennessee lately too? Please tell...

But, once a jock sniffer always a sniffer I guess. Have a blast West TX Longhorn (& you are still fooling no one).

LitanyofFury

12-20-2006, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by g$$
Yeah, we all make posts about each other & sing around the campfire at night too. You are the only one who falls into that category in your man crush for all things VY. Have you seen him walking around Tennessee lately too? Please tell...

But, once a jock sniffer always a sniffer I guess. Have a blast West TX Longhorn (& you are still fooling no one).

You have a disturbing fixation on clothing that covers male genitalia. Maybe you should see a therapist about that. . .or come out of the closet, one of the two.

g$$

12-20-2006, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by LitanyofFury
You have a disturbing fixation on clothing that covers male genitalia. Maybe you should see a therapist about that. . .or come out of the closet, one of the two.

So you admit that you are West TX Longhorn, coming out of the closet? My girlfriend seems to like me as I am, thanks.

TMer25

12-20-2006, 07:59 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
So, from now on I should assume that when you say that Vince Young has won 7 straight games, I should assume that you really meant the Titans? I'm going by what you say at face value, not making up anything, so nice try. You don't need to repost any quotes from Jeff Fisher or the Titans fans or assistant coaches, of course they're going to talk him up and see a bright future for him. It is all hype, because I have yet to see any great results from him. The Titans winning a few games doesn't mean that they're Super Bowl bound and Young is the greatest quarterback who ever lived. :hand:

Come back and talk after Young has more touchdowns than interceptions and has a higher quarterback rating, completion percentage, rushing yards, and more total touchdowns than any quarterback who is currently in the league or has retired. Until then, quit acting like he already has.

The only problem with I have with that is the QB rating part. That doesn't always tell the whole story. Johnny Unitas would have the 48th alltime QB rating, but I don't think many would say he was the 48th best quarterback ever. I think he would fall alot higher on that list. Joe Namath is another, his all time rating would fall around the #123. Both would be behind such great quarterbacks like Neil O'Donnell, Jeff George, Elvis Grbac, and even Aaron Brooks(end sarcasm). That's one stat i've always thought was very overrated.