? for football refs

[BTEXDAD]

In Brenham's 4A playoff game (which they lost) against TX city, they told me about and some are still complaining about a call.
On a kickoff by TX City, there was a fairly short pooch kick. The Brenham guy attempting to field ball in air did not call for a fair catch and a TX city player hit him before ball was in Brenham player's hand. Ball was loose and recovered by TX city.
Some Brenham people say TX city had to let brenham player field ball b4 they could hit him. I was saying they're thinking of a punt and that rules are somewhat different on kickoff since it's a live ball. My feeling was that only way TX city HAD to let brenham player catch ball b4 hitting him was if a fair catch had been called for. Can someone answer this?

[TexDoc]

The opportunity to catch a kick applies in both cases of punts (scrimmage kicks) and kickoffs (free kicks). If a receiving team player is in position to make the catch he must be given an unmolested opportunity to make the catch, regardless of whether or not it is a free kick or scrimmage kick or if a fair catch is called for.

The Brenham people are right.

A lot of teams are kicking the high pooch kick now and the coaches seem to think like you, that they can nail the receiver before the ball gets there and recover the ball. That is a 15 yard penalty from the spot of the foul.

Another odd play on a kickoff is when a receiver is in position to make a catch and a kicking team player jumps up and catches or bats the ball in the air, before striking the ground, before the receiver has had a chance to catch the ball. Although there is no contact, this is still a foul. The kicking team has impeded the receiving team’s opportunity to catch the kick.

[Blastoderm55]

Originally posted by TexDoc

Another odd play on a kickoff is when a receiver is in position to make a catch and a kicking team player jumps up and catches or bats the ball in the air, before striking the ground, before the receiver has had a chance to catch the ball. Although there is no contact, this is still a foul. The kicking team has impeded the receiving team’s opportunity to catch the kick.

So how does this work on onsides kicks? The kicking team has to allow the receiving team an opportunity to field the ball? That's not the way I've ever seen it played. Live ball after ten yards.

[TexDoc]

Ah, very good question. So, what is the big difference between what you usually see with on-side kicks and pooch kicks?

Answer: pooch kicks have not yet touched the ground. On-side kicks usually start with the kicker kicking the top of the ball so the ball immediately strikes the ground.

The rule is, there is no protection for the receiver after the ball strikes the ground.

So, the reason on-side kicks usually start with a kick that causes the ball to immediately strike the ground is because it takes away the receiver's rights to catch the ball unmolested.

As far as on-side kicks, the kicking team cannot block the receiving team until the ball can be legally touched by the kicking team. In other words, the ball has to go ten yards from where it was kick and/or strike a receiving team player before the kicking team can touch the ball or legally block the receiving team.

Part two of this is when does the clock start? If the kicking team touches the ball before it goes 10 yards then the clock does not start when the kicking team touches it. If the ball has gone 10 yards before the kicking team touches it then the clock does start. That's because the clock starts when legally touched by either team. The kicking team touching the ball before it has gone 10 yards without touching the receiving team is considered illegal touching.

[tree8400]

what about Celina they do this atleast twice a game and get about half of them i do not understand the rules on this.

[TexDoc]

What do they do? Pooch kick?

The best thing the receiving team can do on a pooch kick is do a fair catch.

[redfish961]

TexDoc, I've got 2 more questions I'd like to ask. Both scenarios were during the recent Waco High vs. Brownwood game.

The first was a pooch kick on a kickoff where the Brownwood receiver signaled for a fair catch. Another Brownwood player,positioned behind the receiver that signaled for the fair catch, actually received the ball and proceeded to run. The question is, does the player that signals for the fair catch have to be the one to receive the ball? And if not, is it a delay of game penalty on the receiving team?


The second scenario was on a screen pass play. The QB dropped back and passed the ball to a waiting receiver that was behind the line of scrimmage.Contact was made by the defender well before the ball got there. Is that considered an interference penalty? By the way, this was possible because the pass protection had dropped back along with the QB, thereby setting up the screen.

Thanks for your time and it's great to have a good source on the rules.

[JasonTX]

Originally posted by redfish961
TexDoc, I've got 2 more questions I'd like to ask. Both scenarios were during the recent Waco High vs. Brownwood game.

The first was a pooch kick on a kickoff where the Brownwood receiver signaled for a fair catch. Another Brownwood player,positioned behind the receiver that signaled for the fair catch, actually received the ball and proceeded to run. The question is, does the player that signals for the fair catch have to be the one to receive the ball? And if not, is it a delay of game penalty on the receiving team?


The second scenario was on a screen pass play. The QB dropped back and passed the ball to a waiting receiver that was behind the line of scrimmage.Contact was made by the defender well before the ball got there. Is that considered an interference penalty? By the way, this was possible because the pass protection had dropped back along with the QB, thereby setting up the screen.

Thanks for your time and it's great to have a good source on the rules.

The first question: When a player gives a valid or invalid fair catch signal it is a team commitment. Actual wording of the rule is on 6-5-2: No Team B player shall carry a caught or recovered ball more than two steps in any direction after a valid or invalid fair catch signal by any Team B player. This is generally not something that officials are nitpicking on. If a player may not have seen the signal he'll get some latitude, but we'll be hammering down on the whistle.

Second question: The contact must be beyond the line of scrimmage in order for pass interence rules to kick in. You could have some other foul such as a block in the back, holding etc., but not pass interference.

[VAMike]

Originally posted by redfish961


The first was a pooch kick on a kickoff where the Brownwood receiver signaled for a fair catch. Another Brownwood player,positioned behind the receiver that signaled for the fair catch, actually received the ball and proceeded to run.

Did they stop the play or let the receiver advance?

[redfish961]

Originally posted by VAMike
Did they stop the play or let the receiver advance?

They didn't stop the play, but the actual receiver didn't get any further than 2 steps and the steps he did get were laterally,not forward.

In both cases, it appears the correct ruling was made and I actually thought the pass interference would not apply in the instance I specified, since the receiver was not past the line of scrimmage. Just heard lots of grumbling from the stands and wasn't sure myself.

Thanks much for the info.

[3afan]

hey VAMIke - you headed to Salem for the game Saturday?

Does a "crew" call this game or officials from all over the country?

[VAMike]

It will be a crew, reportedly from Indiana. I am going to be down there about 50 miles away and if the weather is good, I'll go over. Otherwise I'll just watch from the couch.

[TexDoc]

If VAMike (aka TXMIKe), Jason or I give you an answer about rules, you can take it to the bank. We kick around rules all year long. Jason is right on with his answers, as usual, even for a North Texas boy.

[CenTexSports]

Texdoc, how many playoff games did you call this year?

[$cooter!]

i think its the NCAA rule also i know on my game it is, i do short pooch kicks all the time and when they dont call fair catch i try to take their head off then i get a penalty afterwards.

[TexDoc]

centex I've done 2 and have one this week, a championship game.

[CenTexSports]

Way to go! I did a semi final for TAPPS and a very good 2A first round.

[TexDoc]

My first championship. Been 20 years in the making.

[CenTexSports]

I called a 4a state championship but it was in Mississippi.

[TexDoc]

The initials wouldn't be MK would they?

[CenTexSports]

No.

[TexDoc]

Okay. We have an ex airforce guy with those initials who was in Miss for a while. Thought it might be you.