Vince Young or David Carr?

[FormerBellvilleBrahma]

If you were the one to say, who would be your QB, who would you pick? I fell the Houston Texans made a bad move not gettiing Vince for there #1 pick last year, and now I beat they feel the same way.

[Fal44]

I like them both since they are both showing improvements but Ill take VY. I think one of the reasons Vince young is doing so good is the fact he has the play calling of Norm chow....

[carter08]

I am a Texans fan
I will support Carr until they run him out of town
I am sticking with Carr
Vince would not do good on this team
I would pick Sage Rosenfels over both though

[DU_stud04]

ive still yet to see what david carr can do. maybe they can let him play for Indianapolis for one week. he'd probly freak out with all the time he would have hahaha

[Fal44]

Originally posted by DU_stud04
ive still yet to see what david carr can do. maybe they can let him play for Indianapolis for one week. he'd probly freak out with all the time he would have hahaha

LoL.. I would be nice to see carr play with a diffrent line..

[bulldogman06]

yea, carr is a great qb, just been behind a high school line his whole pro career. Im not sure who I would take, maybe VY because of age... even though carr is still young

[big daddy russ]

The Texans made the right move IMO. In hindsight, Young's coming into his own as an NFL QB, but Williams wasn't as bad of a pick as everyone seems to think.

Sure, you can say you'd RATHER have Young than Carr right now, but you have to look at the big picture. Would you rather have an elite DE and Carr or Young? There's the real question.

[Pudlugger]

So where was that big ole defensive end the Texans picked over VY on that last play? Huh? Eh?

the sound of Crickets

[big daddy russ]

He wasn't going to catch Vince, if that's what you're asking. The Texans are building a great defense. Now they need an elite safety (LaRon Landry, maybe?) and another corner and they'll be set on D, then an improved O-Line may lead to an improved offense.

Loaded question. Of course everyone and their dog is going to pick Vince. I chose Vince. But it looks a little different from the top, looking down at the big picture.

The Texans and the Titans both made great picks. Two different teams, two completely different scenarios.

[FormerBellvilleBrahma]

Originally posted by Pudlugger
So where was that big ole defensive end the Texans picked over VY on that last play? Huh? Eh?

the sound of Crickets

Did he even play? Did not hear his name called?

[JR2004]

Originally posted by Pudlugger
So where was that big ole defensive end the Texans picked over VY on that last play? Huh? Eh?

the sound of Crickets

Let's give credit where it's due. Williams did come up big with 2 tackles, an assist and one pass defended. Looks like the Texans got their money's worth today out of him!

Still a dumb pick by Houston, but I'm glad Vince wound up where he did and I'm sure he is too right about now.

[g$$]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
The Texans made the right move IMO. In hindsight, Young's coming into his own as an NFL QB, but Williams wasn't as bad of a pick as everyone seems to think.

Sure, you can say you'd RATHER have Young than Carr right now, but you have to look at the big picture. Would you rather have an elite DE and Carr or Young? There's the real question.

Russ - an elite DE does not get single blocked by TEs regularly. Williams was not worthy of the #1 overall. He was not the best defensive player on his college team. Should have traded down & gotten more picks OR just picked VY.

Texans franchise is in shambles from 5 years of poor decisions, period. It will take years to crawl out of this mess. All VY does is win & lead his team. David Carr - ugh! But the Texans have so many holes Carr takes all the blame as QB.

Carter, please do your homework on the Texans. Try being an objective fan please. My goodness your views on the Texans are just goofy. What team are you watching? They are just plain bad & embarrassing.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by g$$
Russ - an elite DE does not get single blocked by TEs regularly. Williams was not worthy of the #1 overall. He was not the best defensive player on his college team. Should have traded down & gotten more picks OR just picked VY.

Texans franchise is in shambles from 5 years of poor decisions, period. It will take years to crawl out of this mess. All VY does is win & lead his team. David Carr - ugh! But the Texans have so many holes Carr takes all the blame as QB.

Carter, please do your homework on the Texans. Try being an objective fan please. My goodness your views on the Texans are just goofy. What team are you watching? They are just plain bad & embarrassing.
I haven't been to a game yet and I've only watched three on TV, but he seems to get in the backfield pretty regularly and I've seen him hold his own against the run more than once.

I've also read a couple of articles (one was either on scout.com or nfldraftcountdown.com... I'll have to look it up) that said he's been developing nicely.

I would've liked to see them trade down, too, but not to get a QB. Out of the consensus top picks (Bush, Vince, Leinart and Williams), Williams was the best pick for the Texans. I would've loved to see D'Brick in Houston, but given the circumstances nobody will ever convince me they didn't go in the right direction.

[g$$]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I haven't been to a game yet and I've only watched three on TV, but he seems to get in the backfield pretty regularly and I've seen him hold his own against the run more than once.

I've also read a couple of articles (one was either on scout.com or nfldraftcountdown.com... I'll have to look it up) that said he's been developing nicely.

I would've liked to see them trade down, too, but not to get a QB. Out of the consensus top picks (Bush, Vince, Leinart and Williams), Williams was the best pick for the Texans. I would've loved to see D'Brick in Houston, but given the circumstances nobody will ever convince me they didn't go in the right direction.

I live in Houston & have seen every game, article, & analysis. Williams is a nice player but NOT worthy of the #1 overall. He is playing on a hurt foot now, but the point is still the same. He is a physical specimen who wowed the scouts at the combine. That does not make him a great football player (see Tony Mandarich, Robert Gallery, Ryan Leaf, etc.). I could not disagree more.

Williams is single blocked regularly by TEs. He is not disruptive as a #1 pick should be. He disappears for long stretches. He looks good in a uniform though!

Texans are a sad franchise right now. Even the grass in a retractable roof stadium is sub-par. Just embarrassing.

[FormerBellvilleBrahma]

I think the texan,s know they should have picked Vince or Reggie, Carr must be the owners step son or something for them to pick him over Bush, or Vince!

[mchavez]

You have to be high if you pick Carr!!

[bandera7]

ok I dont understand this post...I mean you have to look at the Texans situation. They have to play the Colts twice each year, and the only way to beat the Colts is to put pressure on Manning. And VY does not help that at all. Sure, right now you are hearing more from VY. I personally love VY, but I understand exactly what the Texans were thinking when they drafted Williams. Of course, I wasn't so shocked about them not picking Young as I was about them not picking Bush...the guy is phenomenal. Still, Williams will come into his own after a little bit more in the NFL...the stud will come out of him. Just because VY and Bush got off to faster starts does not mean that he isnt any good, it means he is a typical rookie that needs time to adjust to the NFL. And look at the past Super Bowl Champs. They won it from their Defense. If Offense was the X Factor, then the Colts would have won the Super Bowl the last 6 years.

[tigerpride_08]

i would deff pick Vincey because he's gonna turn out to be a great QB in the years to come...

[Old Tiger]

David Carr was overrated coming out of college

[Antec]

One defensive player doesn't win you ball game.

He needs a surrounding cast

Quarterbacks can win you ball game- even with mediocre surrounding cast


Vince could start for any team in the NFL- He'll be one of the best in 2-3 years if he stays healty and the Titans add some better players.

Winning is contagious and Vince is spreading it

Carr is not a winner and not contagious.

I still think if Dominque Davis was healthy and playing, the Texans could have 3-4 more wins

.
But he's not
The Texans also need a new punter. Chad Stanley is not getting the job done

They need Lechler from the Raiders- He's averaging almost 50 yards.


Think his contract runs out this year

[bandera7]

Vince could not start for any team in the NFL...he could not start for the Colts, for the Patriots, the Saints, the Bengals, the Steelers (when Roethlisberger is healthy), the Seahawks, or the Panthers for sure. There are many other teams where you could say well he MIGHT start for them. Vince is still a rookie. He will be one of the best around in 2 or 3 years, but right now there is no way he could start for every team in the NFL...that is a ridiculous statement. And one quarterback cannot win you a whole game, because no matter what in the NFL you dont score every possesion, and if your defense cant get a stop then you will lose every game.

[Bull Butter]

nm

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by bandera7
Vince could not start for any team in the NFL...he could not start for the Colts, for the Patriots, the Saints, the Bengals, the Steelers (when Roethlisberger is healthy), the Seahawks, or the Panthers for sure. There are many other teams where you could say well he MIGHT start for them. Vince is still a rookie. He will be one of the best around in 2 or 3 years, but right now there is no way he could start for every team in the NFL...that is a ridiculous statement. And one quarterback cannot win you a whole game, because no matter what in the NFL you dont score every possesion, and if your defense cant get a stop then you will lose every game. Jake Delhomme is overrated too.

[mean_green]

I must chime in on the VY vs. Carr topic. First of All, The Texans made a horrible pick in Mario Williams, Williams may be an outstanding athlete, but he's no #1 pick. VY could have brought a lot to the Texans, he could have brought excitement within the team, excitement within the community. VY could have brought a winning attitude and playmaking ability. Reggie bush would have been a better pick than Williams, Bush would have given the Texans an explosive player that can return punts, catch passes and run out of the backfield. This whole bull about beating the Colts is ridiculous. They have to worry about winning 14 other games as well. Clearly without a doubt the Texans made a bad decision. The Titans feed of of VY and that is why they are winning, the team feels confident with VY in the game, and when you take a game over in the Pro's like you did in College then you know you have arrived. VY is unstoppable so far on 3rd down situations. When the Titans got the ball in overtime I knew it was over. VY took that game in his hands just like he did in College. On ESPN it showed that VY ran that 46 yard winning TD in 4.7 seconds. That is unbelievable in pads, if he ran 46 yards in a 4.7, then his 40 must have been about a 4.5. Truely an amazing athlete playing QB. Him or Bush should have been picked number 1 by the Texans without a doubt. Poor excuse for for the Texans about beating the Colts. How bout trading down and taking some O-line man to protect Carr. Bad decisions equals bad team.

[un b weavable]

Originally posted by mchavez
You have to be high if you pick Carr!!

You have to be high to think carr is that bad. He had the best passer rating in the league through the first 6 or 7 weeks behind probably the worst offensive line in the league. I wouldnt have taken VY at the beginning of the season mainly because i dont really like him, but the texans didnt need a quarterback. I would have definitely taken reggie bush.

[un b weavable]

Originally posted by un b weavable
You have to be high to think carr is that bad. He had the best passer rating in the league through the first 6 or 7 weeks behind probably the worst offensive line in the league. I wouldnt have taken VY at the beginning of the season mainly because i dont really like him, but the texans didnt need a quarterback. I would have definitely taken reggie bush.

Oh i forgot to answer the original question.... I would take carr even though VY is starting to show me he's NFL worthy.

[GreenGobbla]

nice sig. bron

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by un b weavable
You have to be high to think carr is that bad. He had the best passer rating in the league through the first 6 or 7 weeks behind probably the worst offensive line in the league.

Yes he had the highest passer rating, but that did not tell the complete story. Take the second week of season. Indy dominates the Texans 42-24..Carr throws three TD,,,PROBLEM is he throws all three in 4th Q after the game is pretty much over. In the first 7 weeks the Texans were 2-5. So his great passer rating accounted for all of two wins.

[g$$]

Anyone who puts much stock into NFL qb passer ratings as the be all/end all just does not know football. Carr is not a winner, VY is for sure, case closed. The Texans have many holes no doubt, but the problems begin at qb.

Bad decisions = bad franchise for 5 years now

[un b weavable]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Yes he had the highest passer rating, but that did not tell the complete story. Take the second week of season. Indy dominates the Texans 42-24..Carr throws three TD,,,PROBLEM is he throws all three in 4th Q after the game is pretty much over. In the first 7 weeks the Texans were 2-5. So his great passer rating accounted for all of two wins.

If the rest of the team didnt suck maybe he would be able to do a little more. One person is not gonna make a change on that team, so taking VY wouldnt have done anything for them.

[un b weavable]

Originally posted by GreenGobbla
nice sig. bron

Thanks boo, yours is pretty awesome too.

[BTEXDAD]

Originally posted by JR2004
Let's give credit where it's due. Williams did come up big with 2 tackles, an assist and one pass defended. Looks like the Texans got their money's worth today out of him!



I'm assuming you're being sarcastic in saying the texans got their money's worth out of him Sunday. That output is average in the league at best. According to NFL.com, Williams is not even in the top 30 in the AFC in sacks. He did have one game earlier with two sacks. Now if he did that consistently, I would say he's earning his money.

[g$$]

Originally posted by un b weavable
If the rest of the team didnt suck maybe he would be able to do a little more. One person is not gonna make a change on that team, so taking VY wouldnt have done anything for them.

VY would have rejuvenated a franchise dying on the vine right now, on the field & off. If you think David Carr is the answer, then I have a couple of real estate deals I would love to discuss with you! This is Carr's 5th year - I gave him thru year 3 to show progress - & he has regressed. No doubt he is NOT the only problem, but if you don't believe in your QB then all is lost.

Texans - please start over now!

[un b weavable]

Originally posted by g$$
VY would have rejuvenated a franchise dying on the vine right now, on the field & off. If you think David Carr is the answer, then I have a couple of real estate deals I would love to discuss with you! This is Carr's 5th year - I gave him thru year 3 to show progress - & he has regressed. No doubt he is NOT the only problem, but if you don't believe in your QB then all is lost.

Texans - please start over now!

I didnt say David Carr was "the answer" to their problems because obviously he isnt, but neither is VY in my opinion.

[g$$]

If you lived in Houston maybe you would understand. People are more than frustrated with this franchise, they are starting not to care (lots of empty seats & not renewing season tix). Tix sold is different than butts in those seats.

VY would have changed the face of this franchise & only improved every week. Poor drafts & FA decisions have crippled the Texans. Casserly was a joke then & now. It will take years to crawl out of this mess. Apathy has set in buddy.

[un b weavable]

:rolleyes: Im just gonna stop trying.

[g$$]

Originally posted by un b weavable
:rolleyes: Im just gonna stop trying.

OK. :)

[Highschoolfan78]

David Carr will only go the playoffs a few times in his career.. no more than 3.. Vince will see the playoffs more in his career. He is a born leader

[g$$]

Originally posted by un b weavable
:rolleyes: Im just gonna stop trying.

Vince Young = 6 wins in last 8 games.........(rookie year)
David Carr = 6 wins in last 29 games..........(5th year)
(yes, I know it is a team game, but...)


I will stop now too. :)

[un b weavable]

Originally posted by g$$
Vince Young = 6 wins in last 8 games.........(rookie year)
David Carr = 6 wins in last 29 games..........(5th year)
(yes, I know it is a team game, but...)


I will stop now too. :)

Vince Young with the Texans = probably not much different from what David Carr has done.

[g$$]

Originally posted by un b weavable
Vince Young with the Texans = probably not much different from what David Carr has done.

Please stop - you look stupid. Give VY credit for being a leader & phenomenal athlete who instills belief in everyone around him.

If you don't see that, seek something other than sports as a hobby. And I am an Aggie too who respects what the guy has done & will do in the future. VY did it in hs at Houston Madison, college at Texas, & in the pros at Tennessee. Enough said.

Are you related to Charley Casserley or something?

[un b weavable]

Originally posted by g$$
Please stop - you look stupid. Give VY credit for being a leader & phenomenal athlete who instills belief in everyone around him.

If you don't see that, seek something other than sports as a hobby. And I am an Aggie too who respects what the guy has done & will do in the future. VY did it in hs at Houston Madison, college at Texas, & in the pros at Tennessee. Enough said.

Are you related to Charley Casserley or something?

I do give the guy credit, i just dont think he would magically fix all the problems in Houston.

[g$$]

Originally posted by un b weavable
I do give the guy credit, i just dont think he would magically fix all the problems in Houston.

Never said he would fix all the problems & poor picks, etc.

But, VY would make them better right now & the franchise would have new life too. Right now, apathy has set in & people are frustrated & moving towards not caring. On & off the field, VY should have been selected. If not, then Bush. If not either, trade down & get more picks. The O-line has been a problem since day one. But to stay with Carr is a huge mistake then & now. NO ONE BELIEVES IN HIM & never will.

[un b weavable]

Originally posted by g$$
Never said he would fix all the problems & poor picks, etc.

But, VY would make them better right now & the franchise would have new life too. Right now, apathy has set in & people are frustrated & moving towards not caring. On & off the field, VY should have been selected. If not, then Bush. If not either, trade down & get more picks. The O-line has been a problem since day one. But to stay with Carr is a huge mistake then & now. NO ONE BELIEVES IN HIM & never will.

I believe in him. :D

[g$$]

Originally posted by un b weavable
I believe in him. :D

Then you, Carr, & former GM Casserley are all on the Titanic going down fast.

Watch what happens after the season. Kubiak cannot fix no heart, no leadership, no pocket presence, no instincts, etc. Carr was a 1 year wonder at Fresno State who cannot be fixed after all the hits & bad picks by mgmt. Houston will move in another direction (either by draft or free agency). Watch & see. He may still be on the roster if they cannot trade him though. Maybe the Raiders will take him in return for the failed Phillip Buchanon trade (gave up 2 high draft picks). Buchanon was cut earlier this year.

[big daddy russ]

The Texans need to build a team first, and stop worrying about repeatedly plugging the same holes.

In hindsight, was Williams the right pick? Nope. Was Vince the right pick? Nope.

If you want to know who the right pick was, take a look down the list of O-Line prospects. D'Brick was the right pick. Marcus McNeill (another Auburn guy who's already more than holding his own) was the right pick. Nick Mangold, AJ Hawk, Michael Huff, and Darnell Bing were the right picks.

The Texans aren't in bad shape because of David Carr. They're in bad shape because they continually fail to address their problems along the line. When you build a franchise that's supposed to win for the long haul, look at the offensive and defensive lines before looking at every glamorous player in the draft.

Eric Winston was a great pick, IMO, but they need more than just him on that line. I wasn't high on Chester before the draft and still think they should've picked someone else earlier in the draft. I was screaming for them to take less than "market" for that number one overall, trade down to take D-Brick, and pick up a second- and fifth-rounder also.

I think Davis is the perfect type of runner for Kubiak's offense, but we now know he can't hold up any better than a Kia, so we need to address the backfield as well (Adrian Peterson, maybe?).

I liked the Texans going for defense instead of Bush. I guess I would've rather seen them take Michael Huff, just not at number one.

Oh, and for more discussion, look here (http://bbs.3adownlow.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39282&highlight=reggie+bush). That's what we all had to say leading up to the draft.

[BTEXDAD]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
The Texans need to build a team first, and stop worrying about repeatedly plugging the same holes.


Oh, and for more discussion, look here (http://bbs.3adownlow.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39282&highlight=reggie+bush). That's what we all had to say leading up to the draft.

Even tho I'm huge VY fan, I was one that said trade down and get several picks. The injury (again) to Dom Davis and the continued regression of Carr have made that thought seem not so good.
I'm sure you noticed of the 3 options us intelligent people on 3a downlow voted on, the option of taking a d lineman with number one pick wasn't one of them.

[Bull's-eye]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
The Texans aren't in bad shape because of David Carr. They're in bad shape because they continually fail to address their problems along the line.

I get tired of this excuse or hearing Emmitt Smith was only great because of his great line. Before Emmitt, the Cowboy's offensive line was considered a joke. With Emmitt, those same guys became All-Pro. Look how much better the Cowboy's line is with Romo at QB. Bottom line, Vince Young or Bush would definately improve the Texan O-line. Both players are such a threat that opposing defenses must respect their big play abilities. When playing Vince, teams try to contain him in the pocket. They don't dare bring the DE's or he will run right by them. He is very hard to sack, which avoids the huge negative plays and buys more time for his receivers. Vince is great at running just enough to get a first down and keeping a drive going. There are many things that don't show up in the QB ratings. He just does what it takes to win and I haven't seen that in David Carr.

[footballgal]

When I hear the name Vince Young, I also think of the name Reggie Bush..........all I have to say about that is..... WHAT THE HECK WAS HOUSTON THINKING, DURING THE DRAFT!!!!!!!!!:mad: NOOO! let's get a defensive guy, what is his name anyways???:doh:

[g$$]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
The Texans need to build a team first, and stop worrying about repeatedly plugging the same holes.

In hindsight, was Williams the right pick? Nope. Was Vince the right pick? Nope.

If you want to know who the right pick was, take a look down the list of O-Line prospects. D'Brick was the right pick. Marcus McNeill (another Auburn guy who's already more than holding his own) was the right pick. Nick Mangold, AJ Hawk, Michael Huff, and Darnell Bing were the right picks.

The Texans aren't in bad shape because of David Carr. They're in bad shape because they continually fail to address their problems along the line. When you build a franchise that's supposed to win for the long haul, look at the offensive and defensive lines before looking at every glamorous player in the draft.

Eric Winston was a great pick, IMO, but they need more than just him on that line. I wasn't high on Chester before the draft and still think they should've picked someone else earlier in the draft. I was screaming for them to take less than "market" for that number one overall, trade down to take D-Brick, and pick up a second- and fifth-rounder also.

I think Davis is the perfect type of runner for Kubiak's offense, but we now know he can't hold up any better than a Kia, so we need to address the backfield as well (Adrian Peterson, maybe?).

I liked the Texans going for defense instead of Bush. I guess I would've rather seen them take Michael Huff, just not at number one.

Oh, and for more discussion, look here (http://bbs.3adownlow.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39282&highlight=reggie+bush). That's what we all had to say leading up to the draft.


Russ, you make some good points as always. And I agree that the O-line has never been addressed, until this year with Spencer (now hurt) & Winston. Next year I think Spencer will be at RT & Winston at RG, with changes at LT, etc. It ALL starts up front.

I favored trading down by the way too & acquiring more picks before the draft. Now that Carr has regressed even more, I have changed my mind & want a new direction at QB (maybe Matt Schaub from Atlanta??).

But, this franchise needed a spark. People here are so down right now. Apathy has set in big-time. I see it & hear it everyday. VY should have been the pick, not just to play QB but to breathe life into a dormant franchise. He would have been the face of the Texans for 10 years. The guy is only going to improve & his intangibles & leadership are unquestioned.

If you want to know what is wrong with the Texans, just look at all the drafts & see how many of those picks are still with the team. Look specifically at 2nd & 3rd round picks (Joppru, Hill, Hollings, etc.). Look at Travis Johnson, a #1 DT bust. Boselli, Todd Wade, Morlon Greenwood, etc. - all FA busts or never played due to injury. The only solid #1 picks were Andre Johnson & Dunta Robinson. Blame mgmt. for this over 5 years.

Last year's draft was solid: Williams (though not IMO at #1 overall), D. Ryans (probable ROY on defense), Spencer, Winston, TE Daniels, etc. The Saints have 34 new players this year on their roster, & I expect a similar overhaul in Houston. Another solid draft too must happen. As for Carr, it is time for a change, & not all of it is his fault. A change of scenery will be good for both parties.

[4x100jackets]

Texans SUCK

[g$$]

Originally posted by Bull's-eye
I get tired of this excuse or hearing Emmitt Smith was only great because of his great line. Before Emmitt, the Cowboy's offensive line was considered a joke. With Emmitt, those same guys became All-Pro. Look how much better the Cowboy's line is with Romo at QB. Bottom line, Vince Young or Bush would definately improve the Texan O-line. Both players are such a threat that opposing defenses must respect their big play abilities. When playing Vince, teams try to contain him in the pocket. They don't dare bring the DE's or he will run right by them. He is very hard to sack, which avoids the huge negative plays and buys more time for his receivers. Vince is great at running just enough to get a first down and keeping a drive going. There are many things that don't show up in the QB ratings. He just does what it takes to win and I haven't seen that in David Carr.

That is not entirely true. Dallas built a great line thru the draft & free agency. Erik Williams, Newton, Stepnoski, Tuinei, etc., & then kept them together for years. No doubt though that elite players like Emmitt Smith & VY make a line look better though. Those guys just make plays & you don't have to hold blocks as long. The 2 go hand in hand.

Houston's line has been a revolving door of bad players. When Chester Pitts is the best you have, that spells trouble right there (& they passed up Clinton Portis to take him).

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Bull's-eye
I get tired of this excuse or hearing Emmitt Smith was only great because of his great line. Before Emmitt, the Cowboy's offensive line was considered a joke. With Emmitt, those same guys became All-Pro...
Emmitt was drafted in '90. Jimmy Johnson rolled into town in '89. The only Dallas All-Pro linemen who were there before Johnson was Nate Newton, who had been there since '86, and elder statesman Mark Tuinei, who had been around since '83.

Mark Stepnoski arrived in '89, but the real turning point was when Erik Williams came into the league in '91. Possibly the most athletic OL in the league at 300+ (which was HUGE back in those days) and absolutely dominant at OT. Sure, Kevin Gogan stayed on through '93, but he left because they picked up Larry Allen (an huge upgrade) in the draft. And Gogan made the All-Pro squad in '94, but he was living off his name by that point in time.

It wasn't Emmitt and Troy that made that line work. It was players with more ability. The Texans are in the same boat. One or two good linemen can't plug five holes at the same time.

[bandera7]

beating the colts is not a good excuse? You have to beat the colts to win the division, and besides, if you can beat the colts, you can beat anybody. So by drafting a DE are you saying that he would only be able to put pressure on Manning? He would put pressure on every quarterback there, and ruin a lot of gameplans, not just the Colts gameplan. Defense wins Championships, to have a good team, you have to start with a Good defense. Maybe the Texans should have picked a different defensive player, but picking a defensive player, and the best on there as far as they knew, was not a bad decision. The bad decisions come from not finding some studs for the O Line in the offseason.