One Dimensional Offenses

[Adidas410s]

Why don't they work anymore??? Is it because of improved defensive scheming??? You used to see teams that stayed in the wishbone, the wing-t, etc and could win all day but after the mid-90's Nebraska teams nobody has been able to do it. Today's one-dimensional offenses (from the Hal Mumme/Mike Leach breed) have shown flashes of brilliance but can't be sustained over a full season.

(in the words of Casey...)

DISCUSS

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
Why don't they work anymore??? Is it because of improved defensive scheming??? You used to see teams that stayed in the wishbone, the wing-t, etc and could win all day but after the mid-90's Nebraska teams nobody has been able to do it. Today's one-dimensional offenses (from the Hal Mumme/Mike Leach breed) have shown flashes of brilliance but can't be sustained over a full season.

(in the words of Casey...)

DISCUSS


Defensive schemes can stop a one-dimensional offense. If a team were to put eight men in the box against Giddings of Liberty Hill and had talented and athletic players, then they will be beaten.

[scrub c]

your x's have to be better than their o's.

period. dont matter what offense/defense.

[wooden bear]

I think that is is because level of athletic talent has gone up so much. Your players are able to do so much more now than they were back in the day. Like when you have zone blitzes and more complicated defensive packages now.

[Gobbla2001]

Don't ask me how Cuero has only given up 42 points to Liberty Hill the last two meetings, I'd have to say athleticism, but I don't know if it was the scheme...

Liberty Hill, though they run the ball 98% of the team, is two dimensional to me... their misdirection is another dimension... just me though

[Gobbla2001]

But back to the orginal question, the one dimensional offense does work... it always has and always will, UNTIL you meet a team who is VERY good at stopping your dimension... then it's no good... that's why it helps to draw water from both wells offensively and defensively...

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by Gobbla2001
But back to the orginal question, the one dimensional offense does work... it always has and always will, UNTIL you meet a team who is VERY good at stopping your dimension... then it's no good... that's why it helps to draw water from both wells offensively and defensively...

Case in point...look at Sweetwater and Liberty Hill. They can run you to death all season long...but then one team finds a way to stop it and they don't have a plan B. Same thing happened to Decatur in 2004. Granted, they had a good running back that had a bad ankle against Wylie...but once Wylie took away the big pass play and forced Decatur into having to throw the short, under routes...they didn't have a solid backup plan.

[Gobbla2001]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
Case in point...look at Sweetwater and Liberty Hill. They can run you to death all season long...but then one team finds a way to stop it and they don't have a plan B. Same thing happened to Decatur in 2004. Granted, they had a good running back that had a bad ankle against Wylie...but once Wylie took away the big pass play and forced Decatur into having to throw the short, under routes...they didn't have a solid backup plan.

But what Liberty Hill has right now is a program, they can run that misdirection like nothing else... they have atleast three capable runners in that offense and the offensive line is the best I've seen (not the biggest, though they're big, but by far the fastest and best blockers)... they're gunna be hard to stop even for a good defensive team because:

A. you never knew where that ball is going

and

B. their line is all over your ass and they reach their blocks, they're fast as hell...

And trust me, if they need to they WILL pass and they can, they'd just rather not...

You're not gunna whup Liberty Hill's ass score-wise, you're gunna have to outlast them and outscore them

[Old Tiger]

I say run the punt block/punt return defense against Giddings :p

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by Tiger WR
I say run the punt block/punt return defense against Giddings :p

Or just run Celina's patented 10-1 defense! ;)

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
Or just run Celina's patented 10-1 defense! ;) :clap: :clap:

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by Gobbla2001
But what Liberty Hill has right now is a program, they can run that misdirection like nothing else... they have atleast three capable runners in that offense and the offensive line is the best I've seen (not the biggest, though they're big, but by far the fastest and best blockers)... they're gunna be hard to stop even for a good defensive team because:

A. you never knew where that ball is going

and

B. their line is all over your ass and they reach their blocks, they're fast as hell...

And trust me, if they need to they WILL pass and they can, they'd just rather not...

You're not gunna whup Liberty Hill's ass score-wise, you're gunna have to outlast them and outscore them

I bet being a wide receiver on that team is boring!!:)

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
I bet being a wide receiver on that team is boring!!:) :thinking: They have wide receivers??? ;)

[Gobbla2001]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
I bet being a wide receiver on that team is boring!!:)

they don't have WR's there, they have RB's who line up outside every now and then ha

[Gobbla2001]

they have a good TE though... sneak attack, they may let that boy real loose come crunch time...

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by Gobbla2001
they don't have WR's there, they have RB's who line up outside every now and then ha

Well....that shows how much I know!!:blush:

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by Gobbla2001
they don't have WR's there, they have RB's who line up outside every now and then ha

that sounds like Sanger. They had no QB and 4 RB's. Almost every play they would like up 3 RB's together in the backfield...and sometimes 4 would be back there bunched together. They would then snap it and either do a direct snap/run or some type of zone read run. When they tried to throw...their QB ended up having to scramble for his life. It was strange...

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
Or just run Celina's patented 10-1 defense! ;)

You can pretty well do that against Sweetwater, but that one lonely DB had better have a gameboy or something to keep himself entertained, or he'll fall asleep by half time.:)

I hate a pass happy offense to, but my god, you have to at least be able to throw it with confidence when you have to. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Gobbla2001]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
that sounds like Sanger. They had no QB and 4 RB's. Almost every play they would like up 3 RB's together in the backfield...and sometimes 4 would be back there bunched together. They would then snap it and either do a direct snap/run or some type of zone read run. When they tried to throw...their QB ended up having to scramble for his life. It was strange...

that is strange, I've seen it before, but just a couple of times during a game, not as a base offense...


Anyone runnin' the Y-Stack out there?

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by STANG RED
I hate a pass happy offense to, but my god, you have to at least be able to throw it with confidence when you have to. :mad: :mad: :mad: I agree somewhat. A pass happy offense can be fun to watch if the QB/WR are in a groove, but you get a QB/WR who are off and you are in for a long ass game. :doh: Never hurts when you can pass & catch. :)

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by STANG RED
You can pretty well do that against Sweetwater, but that one lonely DB had better have a gameboy or something to keep himself entertained, or he'll fall asleep by half time.:)

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[big daddy russ]

One-dimensional offenses still work, but all the big boys want to have a plan B nowadays. They think it's necessary, but it's not.

Nebraska played for a national title, what, five years ago? And that was with Frank Solich's option offense and a QB who couldn't throw a rock into a pond. That QB still won the Heisman.

As a matter of fact, just look at what Solich has done with that same offense up at Ohio. They went from the doormat of the MAC to first place in just two years. And they still have inferior talent to teams like Kent State, Central and Western Michigan, Akron, and Northern Illinois.

Vice versa, look at what former NFL head man June Jones has done in Hawaii. He churns out record-setting QB's like Timmy Chang and Colt Brennan year after year and has those kids competing (and competing fiercely) in one of the toughest mid-major conferences in the nation. And all this with a tiny recruiting base. 99% of the Warriors' roster is from Hawaii.

While we're looking at passing offenses, let's go back to Mike Leach. Where was Tech during the Spike Dykes years? An occasional top-25 finish and some great runners like Bam Morris and Byron Hanspard, but there wasn't a season that has really stuck with anyone. Just consistent, mid-level success defined by fourth-tier bowls. Enter Leach, and they're suddenly challenging for the Big XII South every year, they played in the Holiday Bowl (and put a whipping on a top-ten team) two years ago, and they've been consistently playing in second-tier bowls ever since. Oh, and they're still only the fourth-biggest draw for Texas recruits. Heck, even Nebraska and Okie State have recruited almost as well as the Red Raiders over the past four years, but the Raiders just keep winning.

That's the long answer. The short answer is that they still work, they still work well, they're just not en vogue right now.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
One-dimensional offenses still work, but all the big boys want to have a plan B nowadays. They think it's necessary, but it's not.

Nebraska played for a national title, what, five years ago? And that was with Frank Solich's option offense and a QB who couldn't throw a rock into a pond. That QB still won the Heisman.

As a matter of fact, just look at what Solich has done with that same offense up at Ohio. They went from the doormat of the MAC to first place in just two years. And they still have inferior talent to teams like Kent State, Central and Western Michigan, Akron, and Northern Illinois.

Vice versa, look at what former NFL head man June Jones has done in Hawaii. He churns out record-setting QB's like Timmy Chang and Colt Brennan year after year and has those kids competing (and competing fiercely) in one of the toughest mid-major conferences in the nation. And all this with a tiny recruiting base. 99% of the Warriors' roster is from Hawaii.

While we're looking at passing offenses, let's go back to Mike Leach. Where was Tech during the Spike Dykes years? An occasional top-25 finish and some great runners like Bam Morris and Byron Hanspard, but there wasn't a season that has really stuck with anyone. Just consistent, mid-level success defined by fourth-tier bowls. Enter Leach, and they're suddenly challenging for the Big XII South every year, they played in the Holiday Bowl (and put a whipping on a top-ten team) two years ago, and they've been consistently playing in second-tier bowls ever since. Oh, and they're still only the fourth-biggest draw for Texas recruits. Heck, even Nebraska and Okie State have recruited almost as well as the Red Raiders over the past four years, but the Raiders just keep winning.

That's the long answer. The short answer is that they still work, they still work well, they're just not en vogue right now. LMAO!! "a QB that couldn't throw a rock into a pond" thats freakin CLASSIC!!

[GreenMonster]

I disagree with your views on one dimensional. Nebraska was never one dimensional. You had to stop the dive, the keep, and the pitch. That's 3 dimensions right there. Then of course once they get rolling you start moving more people into the box and the next thing you know they just lit up the scoreboard with a 60 yard bomb. That's dimension #4. I think coaches just got impatient. Score now! Whatever. They also have the NFL dictating what is "good" football. I don't think it's necessarily better football but has a wider appeal. The NFL's main goal is to draw viewers and be entertaining to as many people as possible. Therefore balance is what they shoot for. The teams that win are closer to being balanced or even a little run heavy mainly due to pounding the football late in the game to eat away clock and powder back a W. On the college level schools find it harder to recruit players to their program if they don't run an offense that is NFL friendly. Kids don't want to go to a school that might get them labeled as being a system player that can only be successful in a similar offense. High schools tend to follow trends. These trends seem to come from coaches that were grad students or players at the college level that drop down into the HS ranks. These guys coach what they know. They have a little success and it spreads like wildfire. Someone already stated my belief. No matter what you run you still have to have the horses to run it. The veer, the bone, the wing T, the single wing, and any number of other "old school" offensive schemes can still be run very effectively if the coach knows what he's doing, is dedicated to doing it, and has the kids to make it go. What's bad is that these coaches that know what they are doing with any of these offenses are getting few and far between because of the nomadic lifestyle of the coach. No one stays in one place under a mentor long enough to learn the ins and outs of an "old school" system. Anyone can draw up a handful of pass patterns 3 or 4 running plays and call it an offense but I find it more entertaining to watch a coach masterfully out manuever the opposing coach with his play-calling skill and perfect execution of an offensive system. The "spread" isn't a system it's an alignment with a collection of plays masquerading as a system. And that, my friends, is my $.02.

[Gobbla2001]

but a team a team who was great at getting outside penetration (vs. the option) and stopping dives and traps in between the tackles would stop Nebraska... Nebraska had their best seasons when they had atleast some faith in a passing game... the thing is that Nebraska still passed now days that offense doesn't work as well...

If all you do is run dives and traps, and you reach a team who can stop it, you're not gunna score as much... but if you run dives and trap, and have an okay passing game, you have a better chance at scoring... chances are you will not find a defense who is great at stopping two different dimensions at the same time before you find one that is great at stopping one...

[LHMom]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
I bet being a wide receiver on that team is boring!!:)

We don't have any players in that position! LOL

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Gobbla2001
but a team a team who was great at getting outside penetration (vs. the option) and stopping dives and traps in between the tackles would stop Nebraska... Nebraska had their best seasons when they had atleast some faith in a passing game... the thing is that Nebraska still passed now days that offense doesn't work as well...

If all you do is run dives and traps, and you reach a team who can stop it, you're not gunna score as much... but if you run dives and trap, and have an okay passing game, you have a better chance at scoring... chances are you will not find a defense who is great at stopping two different dimensions at the same time before you find one that is great at stopping one...
That's where a good defense comes into play. You can stop any offense under the sun. Even USC's. Every offense out there will hit a snag somewhere along the way, balance or no balance.

Sure, you may get that occasional '05 USC-type offense that comes through from time to time, but that's as much a case of a group of kids completely outclassing everyone else as anything. They had the second- or third-best OL in the country, quite possibly the best QB, two of the five best RBs, and the best WRs in college football. There aren't many defenses that can stand up to the scheme AND the personnel.

[pirate4state]

I miss football........:(

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by pirate4state
I miss football........:(
Me too, but it's fun rereading this thread. :D


:hand: :hand: To you Adidas. :p

[Haunta Yo]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
I bet being a wide receiver on that team is boring!!:)

I'd rather be a "bored wide receiver" playing a week 16 game than a "fun" wide receiver watching 6 playoff games from the stands.

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Me too, but it's fun rereading this thread. :D


:hand: :hand: To you Adidas. :p

There were more I could have "ttt" but some things are better left alone. :devil: :D