Not Band Related.... [Archive] - Texas DownLow Forum

handNthedirt

11-08-2006, 09:25 PM

If there is a Democrat in 3aDL that would like to address this question and further my understanding, it would be greatly appreciated.

If you hate war, hate the fact we are in Iraq fighting a war, and think any attempt to improve homeland security is bogus, then how do you think the U.S. should make our country more safe? And as a major player in the global fight against terror, how should we protect ourselves and other innocent humans against terror?

I'm not trying to stir up any commotion, I'd just really really love to hear your take on it....honestly.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

11-08-2006, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by handNthedirt
If there is a Democrat in 3aDL that would like to address this question and further my understanding, it would be greatly appreciated.

If you hate war, hate the fact we are in Iraq fighting a war, and think any attempt to improve homeland security is bogus, then how do you think the U.S. should make our country more safe? And as a major player in the global fight against terror, how should we protect ourselves and other innocent humans against terror?

I'm not trying to stir up any commotion, I'd just really really love to hear your take on it....honestly.

I do hate the fact that we are fighting the war in Iraq. America was led into war in Iraq under false pretenses, and through mismanagement of the situation, it has gotten out of hand. The war was supposed to be self-sustaining, but it hasn't been. The war was supposed to make America safer, but there were no WMD's or any links of Al Queda to the Iraqi leadership. I don't think that any attempt to improve homeland security is bogus, I think that we should secure our borders and take the necessary steps to make everyone safe, but that doesn't mean that I think that a pre-emptive strike on a nation is necessary. I do think Saddam was a tyrant and a horrible leader, but that is what the UN is for. America needs to strengthen relationships with other nations through peaceful manners and explore the opportunities of diplomacy. Brute force isn't the way to solve problems.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

11-08-2006, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
I do hate the fact that we are fighting the war in Iraq. America was led into war in Iraq under false pretenses, and through mismanagement of the situation, it has gotten out of hand. The war was supposed to be self-sustaining, but it hasn't been. The war was supposed to make America safer, but there were no WMD's or any links of Al Queda to the Iraqi leadership. I don't think that any attempt to improve homeland security is bogus, I think that we should secure our borders and take the necessary steps to make everyone safe, but that doesn't mean that I think that a pre-emptive strike on a nation is necessary. I do think Saddam was a tyrant and a horrible leader, but that is what the UN is for. America needs to strengthen relationships with other nations through peaceful manners and explore the opportunities of diplomacy. Brute force isn't the way to solve problems.

Also, I'm not for the relinquishing of American civil liberties to be protected, either. I believe that we fought to earn every right that we have, and we should never give up those rights in the wake of fear.

sweetwater07

11-08-2006, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Also, I'm not for the relinquishing of American civil liberties to be protected, either. I believe that we fought to earn every right that we have, and we should never give up those rights in the wake of fear.

i agree and nicely said....i believe Bush is leading this country in the wrong direction and he did lead us to war under misdirecting the American ppl through his so called "weapons of mass destruction"...i wish he would look up what diplomacy means and stop using our soldiers as the worlds piece for..and you are right...the U.N. is in existence for a reason

handNthedirt

11-08-2006, 09:40 PM

secure our borders? taller fences? huh? have we been attacked on our homeland since 9/11? if your were elected to office, what are the necessary steps you would take to make everyone safe?

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

11-08-2006, 09:49 PM

Originally posted by handNthedirt
secure our borders? taller fences? huh? have we been attacked on our homeland since 9/11? if your were elected to office, what are the necessary steps you would take to make everyone safe?

Secure the borders by providing money to build a fence and put more border patrol agents in the field and more eyes in the sky. I would then deport all illegal aliens and allow them back once they attain their citizenship in a legal manner. I would follow that up by attaining ever bit of intelligence that I could, and getting the UN to help America fight the war on terror. Begin peace talks with North Korea and other hostile nations. All of this in no specific order.

handNthedirt

11-08-2006, 09:53 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
...I would follow that up by attaining ever bit of intelligence that I could

would you be willing to get as much intelligence possible by any means possible?

sweetwater07

11-08-2006, 09:55 PM

Originally posted by handNthedirt
would you be willing to get as much intelligence possible by any means possible?

no peoples rights should not be infringed upon to recieve and gather information

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

11-08-2006, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by handNthedirt
would you be willing to get as much intelligence possible by any means possible?

As long as it is within the allowance of the Constitution, yes. Civil liberties are something that our veterans fought for, and we should honor that by maintaining those same principles, no matter what the situation is. There are ample legal techniques to attain the information we need.

handNthedirt

11-08-2006, 10:07 PM

would our veterans who fought for our civil liberties give a damn if phone lines were tapped for the safety of ten, hundreds, or thousands of American lives?

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

11-08-2006, 10:08 PM

Originally posted by handNthedirt
would our veterans who fought for our civil liberties give a damn if phone lines were tapped for the safety of ten, hundreds, or thousands of American lives?

I know quite a few who would, actually. I can name one of them if you would like: my father.

sweetwater07

11-08-2006, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by handNthedirt
would our veterans who fought for our civil liberties give a damn if phone lines were tapped for the safety of ten, hundreds, or thousands of American lives?

you can't ask ppl to forfeit their personal rights/freedoms to justify helping the gov. gather information that they should be able to do w/out tapping phone lines and etc.

handNthedirt

11-08-2006, 10:13 PM

different strokes for different folks, I reckon.....I'm a big believer that drastic times call for drastic measures.

handNthedirt

11-08-2006, 10:15 PM

Originally posted by sweetwater07
you can't ask ppl to forfeit their personal rights/freedoms to justify helping the gov. gather information that they should be able to do w/out tapping phone lines and etc.

tap the hell outta my phone if it could possibly save an American life....I've got nothing to hide.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

11-08-2006, 10:15 PM

Originally posted by handNthedirt
different strokes for different folks, I reckon.....I'm a big believer that drastic times call for drastic measures.

Benjamin Franklin once state, "A man who is willing to give up his freedoms in the wake of fear does not deserve freedom at all."

sweetwater07

11-08-2006, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Benjamin Franklin once state, "A man who is willing to give up his freedoms in the wake of fear does not deserve freedom at all."

exactly..our forefathers didn't fight for our freedoms for us just to allow them to be infringed upon because "desperate times call for desperate measures"........

handNthedirt

11-08-2006, 10:23 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Benjamin Franklin once state, "A man who is willing to give up his freedoms in the wake of fear does not deserve freedom at all."

that's a pretty relevant quote....seeing how velcro hadn't even been dreamt of at the time, not to mention chemical/nuclear warfare....or hijacking our planes filled with innocent lives and turning them into missiles against us.

sweetwater07

11-08-2006, 10:26 PM

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

11-08-2006, 10:26 PM

Originally posted by handNthedirt
that's a pretty relevant quote....seeing how velcro hadn't even been dreamt of, not to mention chemical/nuclear warfare....or hijacking our planes filled with innocent lives and turning them into missiles against us.

The man helped build our country. All of those who signed the Declaration of Independence were willing to DIE to give everyone the equal rights they deserved, and thousands have died since them to ensure that we still have those rights today. If a person wants to live a life without freedoms, then they can move to Russia, or China, where their government has already taken them away. People would die to be an American and have the same rights as us, so why should we take them for granted and give them up at the first sight of danger?

handNthedirt

11-08-2006, 10:37 PM

I don't need a history lesson. I know so much about the guy I that I don't respect him, the same way most of his constituents didn't. As a matter of fact, Adams, Washington, Jefferson( I respect the hell outta these great leaders), and your boy, Franklin.....all terrorists in the eyes of the British, but, that is neither here nor there....you're taking life for granted when something as minor as listening to phone conversations between alleged terrorists for the sake of saving lives irks you the way it does.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

11-08-2006, 10:42 PM

Originally posted by handNthedirt
I don't need a history lesson. I know so much about the guy I that I don't respect him, the same way most of his constituents didn't. As a matter of fact, Adams, Washington, Jefferson( I respect the hell outta these great leaders), and your boy, Franklin.....all terrorists in the eyes of the British, but, that is neither here nor there....you're taking life for granted when something as minor as listening to phone conversations between alleged terrorists for the sake of saving lives irks you the way it does.

No, you're taking your liberties for granted and giving the government more control whenever you succumb to fear. If you want to relinquish your own liberties and rights to the government, then that is fine, but don't give up everyone elses with yours.

handNthedirt

11-08-2006, 10:51 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
No, you're taking your liberties for granted and giving the government more control whenever you succumb to fear. If you want to relinquish your own liberties and rights to the government, then that is fine, but don't give up everyone elses with yours.

then tell me how a civilian can fight terrorism without sacrificing some of his/her freedoms....and don't tell me to enlist in the military, I have too many old injuries.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

11-08-2006, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by handNthedirt
then tell me how a civilian can fight terrorism without sacrificing some of his/her freedoms....and don't tell me to enlist in the military, I have too many old injuries.

It has been done in the fast with efficiency and the possession of the same rights as before, so why sacrifice them now just because someone has convinced you that you have to. And yes, I will tell you to enlist or join the police force, because that is the only way. Also, support your troops.

handNthedirt

11-08-2006, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
It has been done in the fast with efficiency and the possession of the same rights as before, so why sacrifice them now just because someone has convinced you that you have to. And yes, I will tell you to enlist or join the police force, because that is the only way. Also, support your troops.

it's a new enemy willing to take their life to take yours...and unlike the Japanese kamikazes, these monsters are willing to take out their own to get to you.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

11-08-2006, 11:10 PM

Originally posted by handNthedirt
it's a new enemy willing to take their life to take yours...and unlike the Japanese kamikazes, these monsters are willing to take out their own to get to you.

There have been enemies in the past, and America has seen more threatened times. If you want to go back and look at history, look at McCarthyism during those times. The government taking control in times of fear is not the answer, and neither is giving up your rights. The people of America should never have to sacrifice their rights, they would be doing an injustice to all of those who serve our country now and the people who served before them by taking their blood and their sacrifice of life and limb for granted. You have your point of view and I have mine, and I suggest we just leave it at that, alright?

handNthedirt

11-08-2006, 11:12 PM

Originally posted by sweetwater07
...very intellegent...
Republicans=illiterate fools

the correct spelling is intelligent....you're welcome.

handNthedirt

11-08-2006, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
There have been enemies in the past, and America has seen more threatened times. If you want to go back and look at history, look at McCarthyism during those times. The government taking control in times of fear is not the answer, and neither is giving up your rights. The people of America should never have to sacrifice their rights, they would be doing an injustice to all of those who serve our country now and the people who served before them by taking their blood and their sacrifice of life and limb for granted. You have your point of view and I have mine, and I suggest we just leave it at that, alright?

McCarthyism? whatta joke! that was straight up propoganda...all he said, she said...lives were lost, characters destroyed...but no way in hell are you comparing those times to these times! Anyway, you're right, Americans shouldn't have to forfeit their rights for the sake of their neighbor...just saying I would.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

11-09-2006, 01:07 AM

Originally posted by handNthedirt
McCarthyism? whatta joke! that was straight up propoganda...all he said, she said...lives were lost, characters destroyed...but no way in hell are you comparing those times to these times! Anyway, you're right, Americans shouldn't have to forfeit their rights for the sake of their neighbor...just saying I would.

That's fine. I'm glad that you're serious about getting this nation protected and that is definately something that you, I, and everyone else can agree upon.

handNthedirt

11-09-2006, 01:11 AM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
That's fine. I'm glad that you're serious about getting this nation protected and that is definately something that you, I, and everyone else can agree upon.

sure, we all want safety, but what it boils down to is how do we go bout' gettin that safety without military presence?

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

11-09-2006, 01:12 AM

Originally posted by handNthedirt
sure, we all want safety, but what it boils down to is how do we go bout' gettin that safety without military presence?

Well, diplomacy worked in the Cold War, and that situation was a thousand times greater than the one we are in now, so why not give it a shot?

Old Tiger

11-09-2006, 01:12 AM

Was that one traitors name Benedict Arnold(spelling)?

handNthedirt

11-09-2006, 01:13 AM

....since military force seems to be the uncommon denominator.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

11-09-2006, 01:13 AM

Originally posted by Tiger WR
Was that one traitors name Benedict Arnold(spelling)?

Yep, he was a traitor during the American Revolution.

handNthedirt

11-09-2006, 01:14 AM

Originally posted by Tiger WR
Was that one traitors name Benedict Arnold(spelling)?

yeah, his eggs are good too, what about him?

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

11-09-2006, 01:15 AM

Originally posted by handNthedirt
yeah, his eggs are good too, what about him?

Go look at my last post on the end of Page 2. (In case you didn't see it.)

GreenMonster

11-09-2006, 01:17 AM

Originally posted by handNthedirt
would you be willing to get as much intelligence possible by any means possible?

Not if it violates my Civil Rights or your Civil Rights for that matter. I also believe that our prisoners of war should be allowed the same rights that we as Americans are. Why, you might ask, because if we stoop to the levels of our combatants we are no better than they are, just different.

handNthedirt

11-09-2006, 01:21 AM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Well, diplomacy worked in the Cold War, and that situation was a thousand times greater than the one we are in now, so why not give it a shot?

the cold war was another different situation...that was nuclear, this is more hit and miss, guerilla warfare with suicidal tendencies, which puts anybody anywhere in jeopardy...even their own. radical muslims want you dead!

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

11-09-2006, 01:23 AM

Originally posted by handNthedirt
the cold war was another different situation...that was nuclear, this is more hit and miss, guerilla warfare with suicidal tendencies, which puts anybody anywhere in jeopardy...even their own. radical muslims want you dead!

And each other dead, what's new? I'm not going to give up my rights, because that is what they REALLY want.

Old Tiger

11-09-2006, 01:25 AM

We should kill Benedict Arnolds skeleton!

handNthedirt

11-09-2006, 01:30 AM

giving up a few of our rights of privacy to weed the terrorists out of our society is exactly what the they don't want. 99% of their violence is premeditated with numerous individuals involved...which requires some sort of organizatrion and communication.

handNthedirt

11-09-2006, 01:37 AM

...which is why the terrorists want us to all vote demo douche.

Blastoderm55

11-09-2006, 01:40 AM

Originally posted by handNthedirt
...which is why the terrorists want us to all vote demo douche.

Wow. Just wow. I'm sure the Saudis are huge contributors to Dems campaigns. Oh wait, they have ties to Bush and his cronies, as well as major interests in the Carlyle groups. Well fudgesticks. I guess some other terrorists are the ones forking over the camels for those liberal sissy-boys.

Old Tiger

11-09-2006, 01:41 AM

Why can't we all just be united under God?

handNthedirt

11-09-2006, 01:43 AM

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
Wow. Just wow. I'm sure the Saudis are huge contributors to Dems campaigns. Oh wait, they have ties to Bush and his cronies, as well as major interests in the Carlyle groups. Well fudgesticks. I guess some other terrorists are the ones forking over the camels for those liberal sissy-boys.

smoov moov leavin billy "cigarman" clinton outta the middle eastern affairs.

Blastoderm55

11-09-2006, 01:43 AM

Originally posted by Tiger WR
Why can't we all just be united under God?

Because God doesn't like gays, women, children, Jews, blacks, asians, hispanics, handicapped, the poor or the deformed. At least that's what we've been led to believe.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

11-09-2006, 01:43 AM

Originally posted by handNthedirt
...which is why the terrorists want us to all vote demo douche.

Hey man, there is a fine line that can't be crossed in this discussion. Try to keep the political parties out and the issue in play.

Old Tiger

11-09-2006, 01:44 AM

Harsh...

Old Tiger

11-09-2006, 01:44 AM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Hey man, there is a fine line that can't be crossed in this discussion. Try to keep the political parties out and the issue in play. What is the topic? I forgot to read

Blastoderm55

11-09-2006, 01:45 AM

Originally posted by handNthedirt
smoov moov leavin billy "cigarman" clinton outta the middle eastern affairs.

Way to live in the 90s. :rolleyes: Should we go all the way back to when the White House was torched by the British in an attempt to illustrate government ineptitude?

handNthedirt

11-09-2006, 01:48 AM

just the opinions of a good ol' boy....you sound like more of an independent than a full blown lefty, bbde.

handNthedirt

11-09-2006, 01:50 AM

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
Way to live in the 90s. :rolleyes: Should we go all the way back to when the White House was torched by the British in an attempt to illustrate government ineptitude?

he was the last demo in the white house...and he desecrated the oval office...he also lied under oath.

Old Tiger

11-09-2006, 01:51 AM

His pimp hand is still strong!

handNthedirt

11-09-2006, 01:53 AM

BBDE, answer me this, what are your thoughts on abortion?

Old Tiger

11-09-2006, 01:53 AM

Originally posted by handNthedirt
BBDE, answer me this, what are your thoughts on abortion? I'm against it INLESS a girl is raped and ends up pregnant because of it.

Sorry I'm not BBDE but that is my opinion on that.

Blastoderm55

11-09-2006, 01:54 AM

Originally posted by handNthedirt
he was the last demo in the white house...and he desecrated the oval office...he also lied under oath.

At least his intern was of age and of the opposite sex. People on the other side have issues, man. The preemptive strike against Iraq should could also, very soon, be argued to be a lie under oath. At least no fine men and women died due to the BJ.

Old Tiger

11-09-2006, 01:55 AM

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
At least his intern was of age and of the opposite sex. People on the other side have issues, man. The preemptive strike against Iraq should could also, very soon, be argued to be a lie under oath. At least no fine men and women died due to the BJ. I heard Monica received a sore throat and a adjetated eye because of the incident but that is the only injuries due to the giving of the BJ by Monica to President Clinton.

Blastoderm55

11-09-2006, 01:58 AM

Originally posted by Tiger WR
I heard Monica received a sore throat and a adjetated eye because of the incident but that is the only injuries due to the giving of the BJ by Monica to President Clinton.

It could get ugly if I commented on this, so on that note, I'm gonna go to bed. :D :p

Good times, good times.

GreenMonster

11-09-2006, 01:59 AM

Originally posted by handNthedirt
giving up a few of our rights of privacy to weed the terrorists out of our society is exactly what the they don't want. 99% of their violence is premeditated with numerous individuals involved...which requires some sort of organizatrion and communication. you act like this is the only solution to the problem. Give up your rights to privacy and all will be fine. I say screw that. We live in the land of the FREE and the home of the BRAVE. FREEDOM comes first. It's perfectly alright to be BRAVE, but bravery is defined as the quality or state of being brave: COURAGE. Courage is defined as the mental or moral strength to venture, persevere, or withstand danger. We will weather this storm from the terrorists and we will become stronger for it. If we start giving away our freedoms we are giving in to the terrorists and not being courageous in what we believe in. Beyond that we would be throwing our nation's values, our political base, in the garbage. In other words, we would be playing to not lose instead of playing to win. Be true to your roots and don't let the opposition dictate your gameplan. Do I think there is potential for innocent lives to be lost? Yes I do. Do I think that it will be worth it in the end? Yes I do. Why, because I think our country has the mental and moral strength to venture, persevere, or withstand danger.

Old Tiger

11-09-2006, 01:59 AM

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
It could get ugly if I commented on this, so on that note, I'm gonna go to bed. :D :p

Good times, good times. lol, I just like to have a little fun. Spice up everyones life here :D

handNthedirt

11-09-2006, 02:01 AM

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
At least his intern was of age and of the opposite sex. People on the other side have issues, man. The preemptive strike against Iraq should could also, very soon, be argued to be a lie under oath. At least no fine men and women died due to the BJ.

how many more innocent Iraqis would have been slaughtered and buried in a shallow mass grave had we not kicked in the door like gang busters and nabbed up the walking definition of inhumanity, Sadaam?

GreenMonster

11-09-2006, 02:02 AM

Originally posted by handNthedirt
how many more innocent Iraqis would have been slaughtered and buried in a shallow mass grave had we not kicked in the door like gang busters and nabbed up the walking definition of inhumanity, Sadaam?

Not our fight. We give up our rights and we could be the next innocents being slaughtered by our own government.

Old Tiger

11-09-2006, 02:02 AM

Oh say can you see by the dawns early lights...what so proudly we we hail at the twighlights last gleaming...whose broad stripes and bright starts....you know the rest

handNthedirt

11-09-2006, 02:08 AM

Originally posted by GreenMonster
you act like this is the only solution to the problem. Give up your rights to privacy and all will be fine. I say screw that. We live in the land of the FREE and the home of the BRAVE. FREEDOM comes first. It's perfectly alright to be BRAVE, but bravery is defined as the quality or state of being brave: COURAGE. Courage is defined as the mental or moral strength to venture, persevere, or withstand danger. We will weather this storm from the terrorists and we will become stronger for it. If we start giving away our freedoms we are giving in to the terrorists and not being courageous in what we believe in. Beyond that we would be throwing our nation's values, our political base, in the garbage. In other words, we would be playing to not lose instead of playing to win. Be true to your roots and don't let the opposition dictate your gameplan. Do I think there is potential for innocent lives to be lost? Yes I do. Do I think that it will be worth it in the end? Yes I do. Why, because I think our country has the mental and moral strength to venture, persevere, or withstand danger.

I too believe that we'll persevere as a country, but why salvage innocent lives when we can make "game time adjustments," which I mean no disrespect by referring to our country's dire situation as a game. Lemme break it down like this...It's like creating the flu antibiotic...the flu is always changing, therefore, in order to survive, your defense must change. This is the age of information/technology.

handNthedirt

11-09-2006, 02:11 AM

Originally posted by GreenMonster
Not our fight. We give up our rights and we could be the next innocents being slaughtered by our own government.

it's not our fight per say, but democracy defends all....which reminds me how dissappointed I am as an American that we haven't interviened with the genocide in Africa.

GreenMonster

11-09-2006, 02:18 AM

Originally posted by handNthedirt
I too believe that we'll persevere as a country, but why salvage innocent lives when we can make "game time adjustments," which I mean no disrespect by referring to our country's dire situation as a game. Lemme break it down like this...It's like creating the flu antibiotic...the flu is always changing, therefore, in order to survive, your defense must change. This is the age of information/technology.

Here's how I view the phone tapping fiasco. In this country I have every right to play my music just as loud as I want whenever I want. That is until my right to play loud music infringes on my next door neighbor's right to peace and quiet. By changing the laws to catch a few there will be innocents stepped on in the process. If it ain't right, it ain't right. You are trying to choose the lesser of 2 evils by giving up everyone's rights to privacy to save a few lives. Be brave and put that into God's hands. When it's your time, it's just simply your time. Don't go making rash changes to our Constitution that has survived 230 years because there are a few loonies out there willing to put you in your grave.

handNthedirt

11-09-2006, 02:20 AM

Absolutely, 100%...it's all in God's hands, and I'm good with that.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

11-09-2006, 02:20 AM

Originally posted by handNthedirt
BBDE, answer me this, what are your thoughts on abortion?

I say let the woman decide what she does with her body. That does not mean that I think that it is right, but not everybody looks at it that way. There is nothing in the Constitution that says that abortion is illegal, and the Supreme Court ruled that abortion was a justifiable means of birth control. I hold the contention that the unborn child is dependent on the mother, and that the mother has the right to decide what she does with her body. That is just my idea, but I don't think that a person should be able to have an abortion and a clear conscience.

handNthedirt

11-09-2006, 02:21 AM

a demo with a conscience? thatta boy!

GreenMonster

11-09-2006, 02:23 AM

Originally posted by handNthedirt
it's not our fight per say, but democracy defends all....which reminds me how dissappointed I am as an American that we haven't interviened with the genocide in Africa. This is why the UN was created. We are the most powerful nation in the world politically as well as militarily. Use the political hand to solve the problem. If you were to have a disagreement with a co-worker and you slugged said co-worker in the nose instead of trying to work out your differences like adults then you might go to jail and would probably be fired. It's the same concept on a much larger scale. Don't just strike out, save that military might for when you absolutely need it. Don't use it as a threat or intimidating factor either, it only makes you look like a bully to the rest of the world.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

11-09-2006, 02:23 AM

Originally posted by handNthedirt
how many more innocent Iraqis would have been slaughtered and buried in a shallow mass grave had we not kicked in the door like gang busters and nabbed up the walking definition of inhumanity, Sadaam?

That is not just the job of the United States to solve, that is a worldwide problem that everyone should be addressed, and the necessary steps to get all nations involved in the effort weren't made. That wasn't the reason we went into Iraq, however.

handNthedirt

11-09-2006, 02:26 AM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
That is not just the job of the United States to solve, that is a worldwide problem that everyone should be addressed, and the necessary steps to get all nations involved in the effort weren't made. That wasn't the reason we went into Iraq, however.

As a supporter of our President, I do believe that he finished his daddy's bid'ness....and however you choose to look at it, the world is a better place. have you not seen all the pics on the internet, that the media won't televise, with US soldiers and Iraqis with joy on their faces? right is right, and wrong is wrong...I believe we did, and are still doing, the right thing.

GreenMonster

11-09-2006, 02:27 AM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
That wasn't the reason we went into Iraq, however.

True, we went to finish a fight that Bush I and his cronies (yep, the same one's Bush II had on his side) wished they had finished the first time. Had we finished that fight then I would have been all for it. It was the right time and we were there for the right reasons.

GreenMonster

11-09-2006, 02:30 AM

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

11-09-2006, 02:32 AM

Originally posted by handNthedirt
As a supporter of our President, I do believe that he finished his daddy's bid'ness....and however you choose to look at it, the world is a better place. have you not seen all the pics on the internet, that the media won't televise, with US soldiers and Iraqis with joy on their faces? right is right, and wrong is wrong...I believe we did, and are still doing, the right thing.

I am a firm believer in one thing, and that is help nobody that is willing to help themselves. The Iraqi citizens were in a position to do something about the oppression that they were facing. It is obvious that they have guns and bombs. Why should we decide what they want? They have already proven that they do not want democracy, so how are you going to force that on a group of people who don't want it, better yet, have you seen what has happened since democracy was implemented there? American's won their independence by facing the battle head on and putting their lives on the line. I'm not trying to give you a history lesson, but not until we demonstrated to other nations that we were serious about attaining our freedom, we were alone in the battle, but after we proved to everyone and ourselves that we had the desire and the fight to stick it out until the end did we receive support and the rest is history. Sometimes doing the right thing isn't always doing the right thing. Not all soldiers believe in what they fight for, but they do it because it is their obligation to do so. Look back at Vietnam for example, the largest example of discontent amongst both Americans and troops alike. Soldiers will fight regardless, because that is their duty and they are noble in doing so, but I would much rather have Saddam in power and our troops alive and well back in the states. My opinion would of course be different granted the Iraqi citizens would have actually made a stand for themselves, but they did not.