6-3A point totals as of right now

[GreenMonster]

Iowa Park is +3

Burkburnett is +2

WF Hirschi is 0

Graham is -2

Vernon is -3


Burkburnett, Graham, and IP only need a win to get in.

Vernon needs a win by 3 or more to get in because they hold the head to head with Hirschi if they both finish at 0.

Burk can still lose and get in if that loss is by only 1 point because if they finish at 0 then Hirschi holds the head to head over Burk.

Graham, IP, and Vernon are in must win situations to get in.

Are you lost yet? I know I'm starting to confuse myself.

[GWOOD]

Good work Green Monster. You told me last spring you were way too lazy to do work like that! Do you remember that?

[GreenMonster]

Originally posted by GWOOD
Good work Green Monster. You told me last spring you were way too lazy to do work like that! Do you remember that?

HaHa! I am. You did state-wide baseball updates. This is just district 6. Wichita Falls Times Record News web site had all the scores I just added up the point totals and tried to untangle the play-off mess as I went.

[westcoast54]

Originally posted by GreenMonster
Iowa Park is +3

Burkburnett is +2

WF Hirschi is 0

Graham is -2

Vernon is -3


Burkburnett, Graham, and IP only need a win to get in.

Vernon needs a win by 3 or more to get in because they hold the head to head with Hirschi if they both finish at 0.

Burk can still lose and get in if that loss is by only 1 point because if they finish at 0 then Hirschi holds the head to head over Burk.

Graham, IP, and Vernon are in must win situations to get in.

Are you lost yet? I know I'm starting to confuse myself.

I'm sorry but, your are wrong. In a three way tie in this district, the points are only used to get one team in. For example if IP and Burk win Burk is the Champ, IP is second. becauese of points. and Hirschi is third because they beat Graham. I'm not going to go into all the scenerios but Hirschi is in no matter what happens next week.

[GreenMonster]

If that is the case then congratulations Huskies.

[westcoast54]

Originally posted by GreenMonster
If that is the case then congratulations Huskies.

Thank you!!!

[GreenMonster]

Originally posted by westcoast54
Thank you!!!

You are very welcome. Hirschi has made great strides and they have earned everything they get.

[Adidas410s]

so if I'm reading this correct...Graham is in with a win or a Vernon win. If Graham loses and Vernon wins...you would have this:

Hirschi 0
Graham -2
Vernon -3

Hirschi gets the 2nd spot and Graham gets the 3rd spot by virtue of their win over Vernon last night.

If Graham loses and IP wins...you would have this:

IP +3
Hirschi 0
Graham -2

IP gets the 2nd spot and Hirschi the 3rd spot by virtue of the their win over Graham.

Is that correct???

[GreenMonster]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
so if I'm reading this correct...Graham is in with a win or a Vernon win. If Graham loses and Vernon wins...you would have this:

Hirschi 0
Graham -2
Vernon -3

Hirschi gets the 2nd spot and Graham gets the 3rd spot by virtue of their win over Vernon last night.

If Graham loses and IP wins...you would have this:

IP +3
Hirschi 0
Graham -2

IP gets the 2nd spot and Hirschi the 3rd spot by virtue of the their win over Graham.

Is that correct???

That is what he is saying. He read the minutes not us. It sounds pretty screwy huh. Although, looking at your scenario Hirschi still goes as the 3rd place team per the point system. I don't doubt what he is saying though. I just don't like it. Doesn't make much sense to do it that way in my way of thinking. That's why I don't get paid the big bucks to make those decisions.

[westcoast54]

Yes Sir.

[GreenMonster]

OK, let's simplify this.

WF Hirschi = IN

Everyone else must win to get in.

[westcoast54]

It may sound screwy but I don't think it is. You use the points to get one of the three that are tied into the playoffs. Then you go head to head with the final two to decide the final spot.

[injuredinmelee]

we might run up to IP for this one friday night. Wylie ought to kill Comanche.

[fury900]

Burkburnett is in win (3-1) or loses a win (3-1)1D a loses (2-2) 2D a win Vs Vernon & IP

Graham is in win or loses a win (3-1) 1D a loses (2-2) 2D? a win Vs Vernon & IP

it is head to head with teams tie point

Vernon win is in 3D (2-2) a win Hirschi

IP win is in 3D (2-2) a win Hirschi

Hirschi is (2-2) lost to Vernon 17 -10 & IP 20 -7

head to head with teams tie with point

Hirschi is out ???????

[GreenMonster]

New scenario.

Burk loses to Graham by 1 putting them at +1
Vernon beats IP by 3 putting them at 0
Hirschi is also at 0

Graham is in due to the win.
Burk is in due to the point system
Vernon is in due to the head to head over Hirshi

HA! I knew that Hirschi wasn't a lock yet. :D

[GWOOD]

Originally posted by GreenMonster

HA! I knew that Hirschi wasn't a lock yet. :D

I wasn't convinced they were in because WOS87 had not deemed them so!:D

[GreenMonster]

It's too confusing. This why we love it though. This district is the most perfect scenario the UIL could have hoped for. All 5 teams still have play-off hopes going into week 10. It doesn't get any more evenly matched than that. The cats at Hirschi have done a great job over there this year. The kids over there deserved better than what they had been getting Coaching-wise over the past 5 or 6 years and they finally have it. That is a proud program that the WFISD had ignored and allowed to sink to the very bottom. Coach Searcy and his staff have breathed life back into the Huskies though and have raised the "Titanic" and are well on their way to restoring her to her former glory. Great work guys.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by GreenMonster
New scenario.

Burk loses to Graham by 1 putting them at +1
Vernon beats IP by 3 putting them at 0
Hirschi is also at 0

Graham is in due to the win.
Burk is in due to the point system
Vernon is in due to the head to head over Hirshi

HA! I knew that Hirschi wasn't a lock yet. :D

So does the district count every game in the positive points system? I thought that only the games between the teams involved in the tiebreaker would count. In that case, your scenario wouldn't count.

[WOS87]

The way it usually is done is if there is a 3-way tie, then only the games between the 3 teams are counted in the point system.
From my calculations Hirschi could potentially be the Division I playoff rep, the Division II Top Seed, the Division II Runnerup or not even qualify for the playoffs depending on which of the 4 possible outcomes happens.....

DISTRICT 6 Standings after Week 9

(1) Burkburnett 2-1 (7-2)
(3) Graham 2-1 (4-5)
(2) Wichita Falls Hirschi 2-2 (7-3)
(5) Vernon 1-2 (4-5)
(4) Iowa Park 1-2 (5-4)

There are 2 district matchups remaining:

Remaining District Games Ranked from Most Predictable to Least Predictable

Burkburnett favored over Graham (Wk 10) 81%
Vernon favored over Iowa Park (Wk 10) 53%

4 Possible Outcomes

(1) If Burkburnett and Vernon win next week the three playoff teams will be 1st - Burkburnett (Division I) , 2nd - Hirschi, 3rd - Vernon
(2) If Burkburnett and Iowa Park win next week the three playoff teams will be 1st - Burkburnett (Division I) , 2nd - Iowa Park, 3rd - Hirschi
(3) If Graham and Vernon win next week the three playoff teams will be 1st - Graham , 2nd - Vernon, 3rd - Hirschi (Division I)
(4) If Graham and Iowa Park win next week the three playoff teams will be 1st - Graham, 2nd - Iowa Park, 3rd - Burkburnett (Division I)

[wimbo_pro]

Good lord....make it simple for the rest of us and tell us this...where is region 1? LOL...just kidding.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by WOS87
The way it usually is done is if there is a 3-way tie, then only the games between the 3 teams are counted in the point system.
From my calculations Hirschi could potentially be the Division I playoff rep, the Division II Top Seed, the Division II Runnerup or not even qualify for the playoffs depending on which of the 4 possible outcomes happens.....

DISTRICT 6 Standings after Week 9

(1) Burkburnett 2-1 (7-2)
(3) Graham 2-1 (4-5)
(2) Wichita Falls Hirschi 2-2 (7-3)
(5) Vernon 1-2 (4-5)
(4) Iowa Park 1-2 (5-4)

There are 2 district matchups remaining:

Remaining District Games Ranked from Most Predictable to Least Predictable

Burkburnett favored over Graham (Wk 10) 81%
Vernon favored over Iowa Park (Wk 10) 53%

4 Possible Outcomes

(1) If Burkburnett and Vernon win next week the three playoff teams will be 1st - Burkburnett (Division I) , 2nd - Hirschi, 3rd - Vernon
(2) If Burkburnett and Iowa Park win next week the three playoff teams will be 1st - Burkburnett (Division I) , 2nd - Iowa Park, 3rd - Hirschi
(3) If Graham and Vernon win next week the three playoff teams will be 1st - Graham , 2nd - Vernon, 3rd - Hirschi (Division I)
(4) If Graham and Iowa Park win next week the three playoff teams will be 1st - Graham, 2nd - Iowa Park, 3rd - Burkburnett (Division I)

according to another poster the district manual states that positive points is only used to determine a winner in a 3-way tie and then the 3rd place spot is determined by head to head.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by wimbo_pro
Good lord....make it simple for the rest of us and tell us this...where is region 1? LOL...just kidding.

:mad: :mad: :mad:

;) ;)

[GreenMonster]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
according to another poster the district manual states that positive points is only used to determine a winner in a 3-way tie and then the 3rd place spot is determined by head to head.

He never said "positive" points just points. I think it is on a plus or minus 14 system where the maximum points you can earn/lose is 14. That has been the case in the past. Not sure about anything though. We need Westcoast to fill in the holes. He's either a coach or has connections that allow him access to the minutes of the District Meeting where this was all determined for this season. He obviously read over it last night per his own admission.

[WOS87]

There are only 4 possible scenarios since only 2 games are left for the regular season. If the tiebreaker is as I understand it to be it would go like this. A combined positive and negative point differential would determine the 1st place winner of a 3-way tie. The 2nd and 3rd places would be determined by their game head-to-head.

Scenario 1: Burkburnett beats Graham AND Vernon beats Iowa Park

District Standings
Burkburnett 3-1
Graham 2-2
Hirschi 2-2
Vernon 2-2
Iowa Park 1-3

Burkburnett is the District Champ and the Division I playoff rep

In the 3-way tie between Graham, Hirschi and Vernon:
Graham lost to Hirschi by 17 (but only 13 points are counted), and beat Vernon by 7 = -6 for combined points
Vernon lost to Graham by 7 and beat Hirschi by 7 = 0 for combined points
Hirschi loss to Vernon by 7 and beat Graham by 17 (+13) = +6 for combined points

Hirschi is the Division II Top seed and Graham would be the 3rd place team and Division II Runnerup due to winning the head-to-head against Vernon.

Scenario 2: Burkburnett beats Graham AND Iowa Park beats Vernon

District Standings
Burkburnett 3-1
Graham 2-2
Hirschi 2-2
Iowa Park 2-2
Vernon 1-3

Burkburnett is the District Champ and the Division I playoff rep

In the 3-way tie between Graham, Hirschi and Iowa Park:
Graham lost to Hirschi by 17 (but only 13 points are counted), and beat Iowa Park by 4 = -9 combined
Iowa Park lost to Graham by 4 and beat Hirschi by 13 = +9 combined
Hirschi loss to Iowa Park by 13 and beat Graham by 17 (+13) = 0 combined

Iowa Park is the Division II Top seed and Hirschi would be the 3rd place team and Division II Runnerup due to winning the head-to-head against Graham

Scenario 3: Graham beats Burkburnett AND Vernon beats Iowa Park

District Standings
Graham 3-1
Burkburnett 2-2
Hirschi 2-2
Vernon 2-2
Iowa Park 1-3

Graham is the District Champ and the Division II top seed

In the 3-way tie between Burkburnett, Hirschi and Vernon:
Burkburnett lost to Hirschi by 7, and beat Vernon by 3 = -4
Vernon lost to Burkburnett by 3 and beat Hirschi by 7 = +4
Hirschi loss to Vernon by 7 and beat Burkburnett by 7 = 0

Vernon is the Division II Runnerup and Hirschi would be the 3rd place team and the Divison I playoff rep due to winning the head-to-head against Burkburnett.

Scenario 4: Graham beats Burkburnett AND Iowa Park beats Vernon

District Standings
Graham 3-1
Burkburnett 2-2
Hirschi 2-2
Iowa Park 2-2
Vernon 1-3

Graham is the District Champ and the Division II top seed

In the 3-way tie between Burkburnett, Hirschi and Iowa Park:
Burkburnett lost to Hirschi by 7 and beat Iowa Park by 6 = -1
Iowa Park lost to Burkburnett by 6 and beat Hirschi by 13 = +7
Hirschi lost to Iowa Park by 13 and beat Burkburnett by 7 = -6

Iowa Park is the Division II Runnerup and Hirschi would be the 3rd place team and Divison I rep due to winning the head-to-head against Burkburnett

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by WOS87
It will all depend on the exact rules set out by the district


There are only 4 possible scenarios since only 2 games are left for the regular season. There are multiple ways to break the tie: positive points only counts only points in games that a team wins with losses counting as 0, positive and negative points combined includes margins of loss and margins of victory, and in both there is usually a maximum number of points per game that are counted (usually anywhere from 13 to 21)

Scenario 1: Burkburnett beats Graham AND Vernon beats Iowa Park

District Standings
Burkburnett 3-1
Graham 2-2
Hirschi 2-2
Vernon 2-2
Iowa Park 1-3

Burkburnett is the District Champ and the Division I playoff rep

In the 3-way tie between Graham, Hirschi and Vernon:
Graham lost to Hirschi by 17 (but only 13 points are counted), and beat Vernon by 7 = -6 for combined points, +7 using positive points
Vernon lost to Graham by 7 and beat Hirschi by 7 = 0 for combined points and +7 using positive points
Hirschi loss to Vernon by 7 and beat Graham by 17 (+13) = +6 for combined points, +13 using positive points

Hirschi is the Division II Top seed no matter how the tie is broken. Vernon would be the 3rd place team using combined points, Graham would be the 3rd place team using positive points due to winning the head-to-head against Vernon.

Scenario 2: Burkburnett beats Graham AND Iowa Park beats Vernon

District Standings
Burkburnett 3-1
Graham 2-2
Hirschi 2-2
Iowa Park 2-2
Vernon 1-3

Burkburnett is the District Champ and the Division I playoff rep

In the 3-way tie between Graham, Hirschi and Iowa Park:
Graham lost to Hirschi by 17 (but only 13 points are counted), and beat Iowa Park by 4 = -9 combined, +4 for positive points
Iowa Park lost to Graham by 4 and beat Hirschi by 13 = +9 combined or +13 for positive points
Hirschi loss to Iowa Park by 13 and beat Graham by 17 (+13) = 0 combined or +13 positive points

Iowa Park is the Division II Top seed. Hirschi would be the 3rd place team and would be the Division II Runnerup unless the point cutoff happened to be more than 13 points, then Hirschi would be the top seed in Division II.

Scenario 3: Graham beats Burkburnett AND Vernon beats Iowa Park

District Standings
Graham 3-1
Burkburnett 2-2
Hirschi 2-2
Vernon 2-2
Iowa Park 1-3

Graham is the District Champ and the Division II top seed

In the 3-way tie between Burkburnett, Hirschi and Vernon:
Burkburnett lost to Hirschi by 7, and beat Vernon by 3 = -4 combined or +7 positive points
Vernon lost to Burkburnett by 3 and beat Hirschi by 7 = +4 combined or +7 positive points
Hirschi loss to Vernon by 7 and beat Burkburnett by 7 = 0 or +7 positive points

There would be another 3-way tie using only positive points. Vernon is the Division II Runnerup using combined points and Hirschi would be the 3rd place team and also be the Divison I playoff rep.

Scenario 4: Graham beats Burkburnett AND Iowa Park beats Vernon

District Standings
Graham 3-1
Burkburnett 2-2
Hirschi 2-2
Iowa Park 2-2
Vernon 1-3

Graham is the District Champ and the Division II top seed

In the 3-way tie between Burkburnett, Hirschi and Iowa Park:
Burkburnett lost to Hirschi by 7 and beat Iowa Park by 6 = -1 combined or +6 positive points.
Iowa Park lost to Burkburnett by 6 and beat Hirschi by 13 = +7 combined or +13 positive points.
Hirschi lost to Iowa Park by 13 and beat Burkburnett by 7 = -6 combined or +7 positive points.

Iowa Park is the Division II Runnerup. Hirschi would be the 3rd place team and Divison I rep using either head-to-head or positive points and Burkburnett would be the 3rd place team and Division I rep using combined points.

Thanks for putting that all down on paper. Obviously, knowing the exact way that the point system is set up will clarify some of this...but I don't think it really impacts the scenarios that much.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[WOS87]

It is true that if only the winner of a 3-way tie is determined using a point system and if the 2nd and 3rd place teams are determined by head-to-head then Hirschi is in no matter what.

If combined point differentials are used to break 3-way ties all the way down, then Hirschi could potentially be left out.

[Cameron Crazy]

Originally posted by westcoast54
I'm sorry but, your are wrong. In a three way tie in this district, the points are only used to get one team in. For example if IP and Burk win Burk is the Champ, IP is second. becauese of points. and Hirschi is third because they beat Graham. I'm not going to go into all the scenerios but Hirschi is in no matter what happens next week. Yes you are right they are in!

[Chunkthepill]

so regardless, burk win = in, burk loss = out?

is that right?