kenny rogers

[coach]

was he using an illegal substance or was it really dirt?

[kaorder1999]

dirt would be an illegal substance if he were using the dirt to weigh down the ball to cause it to do crazy stuff

[Snyder_TigerFan]

http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/images/2006/10/22/U4QXvNt2.jpg

[eagles_victory]

i think dirt is legal but the brown stuff has been spotted on his hands in all 3 postseason starts. It is kinda starage how his breaking ball has been breaking like never before. If its not dirt whats he going to tell us next hes been whipping his butt with his hand.

[coach]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
i think dirt is legal but the brown stuff has been spotted on his hands in all 3 postseason starts. It is kinda starage how his breaking ball has been breaking like never before. If its not dirt whats he going to tell us next hes been whipping his butt with his hand.

i think ive herd somone say that before

[Adidas410s]

K...so explain what happened the next 7 innings when he STILL threw shutout ball? He only gave up 1 more hit in the next seven innings.

[Snyder_TigerFan]

These pictures are from 2 different games. Cheater.
http://espn-ak.starwave.com/photo/2006/1023/mlb_rogers_hands_412.jpg

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by Snyder_TigerFan
These pictures are from 2 different games. Cheater.
http://espn-ak.starwave.com/photo/2006/1023/mlb_rogers_hands_412.jpg dont say that too loud kenny might come push you down lol

[kaorder1999]

interesting...

[Snyder_TigerFan]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
dont say that too loud kenny might come push you down lol

It's okay, I'm not holding a camera.:)

[JasperDog94]

I hope this story doesn't dominate what could be a great series. But I'm afraid that it will.:(

[kaorder1999]

if it does its his fault

[kaorder1999]

and he deserves everything coming his way. He's an idiot.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
and he deserves everything coming his way. He's an idiot. You wouldn't happen to be Rangers fan would you?;)

[kaorder1999]

actually no I'm not. I worked in Radio for a few years and covered a few Ranger games. He is an arrogant a-hole.

[Adidas410s]

it's amazing that the umpires didn't find anything. I just love how people can make all of these great accusations without any facts as to what it was.

Here is a photo of the umpires talking to Kenny at the end of the Top of the 1st.

http://espn-ak.starwave.com/photo/2006/1023/mlb_ap_rogers_ump_275.jpg

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
it's amazing that the umpires didn't find anything. I just love how people can make all of these great accusations without any facts as to what it was.

Here is a photo of the umpires talking to Kenny at the end of the Top of the 1st.

http://espn-ak.starwave.com/photo/2006/1023/mlb_ap_rogers_ump_275.jpg That ump better be glad he wasn't holding a camera...;)

[kaorder1999]

the umpired DID find something and just asked him "to remove the dirt" from his hand....this was AFTER LaRussa talked to the umpires about the weird movement on his pitches..

[kaorder1999]

from yahoo.com

Just consider the following:

1. During the top of the first inning, St. Louis Cardinals hitters complained to manager Tony La Russa that there was funny movement on Rogers' pitches.

2. La Russa then took the complaint to the umpires, although he didn't formally request an inspection of the Detroit Tigers' starting pitcher.

3. Home-plate umpire Alfonso Marquez, according to supervisor Steve Palermo, then noticed that Rogers had "a noticeable dirt mark of some sort on his left hand," which, if it was determined he was using intentionally to mark the ball to cause funny movement, would be cause for ejection.

4. So Marquez had a conversation with Rogers and, according to Palermo, said, "Kenny, that dirt thing that you've got on your hand, if you'll do me a favor and just take it off."

5. Rogers, according to Palermo, then washed his hands.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
the umpired DID find something and just asked him "to remove the dirt" from his hand....this was AFTER LaRussa talked to the umpires about the weird movement on his pitches..
Exactly. He didn't find anything illegal. These aren't exactly rookie umps out there. I'm pretty sure they could identify any illegal substances if in fact there was something to be found. They felt it was dirt...he removed it...end of story. This is a non-story becoming a story.

[Snyder_TigerFan]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
[B]it's amazing that the umpires didn't find anything. I just love how people can make all of these great accusations without any facts as to what it was.


The picture is pretty much all the facts I need. He just happens to have "dirt" on his hand in the same location during two different games?

[kaorder1999]

the fact is....in MULTIPLE games he had "dirt spots" on his PITCHING HAND. And all of a sudden after an umpire approaces him about it it's like, "wow, thanks...I didnt know I had it on my hand". That's the biggest load of BS. Pitchers are VERY particular about what is on their hands, especially their pitching hand.

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by Snyder_TigerFan
The picture is pretty much all the facts I need. He just happens to have "dirt" on his hand in the same location during two different games?

exactly....

[kaorder1999]

Im sorry Adidas but having "dirt marks" on the same place on your hand in multiple games IS a story in my opinion.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
the fact is....in MULTIPLE games he had "dirt spots" on his PITCHING HAND. And all of a sudden after an umpire approaces him about it it's like, "wow, thanks...I didnt know I had it on my hand". That's the biggest load of BS. Pitchers are VERY particular about what is on their hands, especially their pitching hand.

So explain how he still pitched 7 innings of 1 hit ball after it wasn't there? If it was something that was making that big of a difference on his pitches...one would think that there would have been a dropoff in performance once it was removed. :thinking:

For the record...he went 7 more innings with 5K's, 2 BB's, and 1 hit.

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
So explain how he still pitched 7 innings of 1 hit ball after it wasn't there? If it was something that was making that big of a difference on his pitches...one would think that there would have been a dropoff in performance once it was removed. :thinking:

For the record...he went 7 more innings with 5K's, 2 BB's, and 1 hit. how do you know he didnt put it back on? And if he cheated in the first he cheated it doesnt matter what happened after cheating is cheating

[kaorder1999]

I never disputed the fact that he was a good pitcher. I could cheat on a test that I'm actually prepared for and stop cheating halfway through and do well on the test. The fact that he did well the rest of the way out doesn't automatically clear him of anything.

If he was using the substance to mark the ball to make it do crazy things then that was just putting him WAY over the top. He's already a great pitcher but IF he were marking the ball it would have made him even better

[AggieJohn]

What was it?
http://espn-ak.starwave.com/photo/2006/1023/radio_u_rogers_490.jpg

[piratebg]

Maybe he stuck his hand down the back of his pants and scratched his butt.

[GreenMonster]

maybe it was photoshopped

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by GreenMonster
maybe it was photoshopped

LOL The Fox camera guy photoshopped it to get back at Kenny for attacking a fellow cameraman

[Snyder_TigerFan]

It's already being debated....

http://bbs.3adownlow.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53259

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
how do you know he didnt put it back on? And if he cheated in the first he cheated it doesnt matter what happened after cheating is cheating

I guess you missed the part where Fox showed that from the 2nd inning on...there was nothing there.

[PHS Wildcats]

Aww Ranger fans, you got to love them:clap:

[Adidas410s]

Steve Palermo, umpire supervisor for Major League Baseball, said there was no indication that Rogers had applied any substance, intentionally, to the baseball. Any dirt on Rogers' hand, Palermo said, came as a result of simple competitive acts.
 "There is absolutely no detection that Kenny Rogers put anything on the ball," he said. " … That rule calls for deliberately doctoring the ball in some regard."

Again...if the umpires didn't feel that anything illegal was being done (remember...Weaver was pitching with the same balls and if they were doctored then he too would have noticed it)...then there is nothing else to discuss here unless you want to call the umpires a bunch of liars.

[CenTexSports]

Dusty Baker after the game said that pitchers alledgedly use this stuff all the time but they put it in their cap, behind their head, or in their crotch. Kenny probably just moved the location of the material after he washed his hands. I am not a fan of Kenny (Gaylord Perry) Rogers.

[kaorder1999]

whats even funnier then the fact that you guys think we are crazy for actually thinking Rogers would do this is the fact that you think its only Ranger fans who think he's guilty.

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by AggieJohn
What was it?
http://espn-ak.starwave.com/photo/2006/1023/radio_u_rogers_490.jpg

look behind his ear...something looks funny there too. COuld be just a shadow or something though

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
look behind his ear...something looks funny there too. COuld be just a shadow or something though

I'm thinking maybe you should break out the rubber gloves and do a cavity search on him. You'll probably find some dirty, brown substances along the way! ;)

[eagles_victory]

Look at the facts Kenny Rogers "the gambler" the only gambling this guy does is folds in the second half of every season. He wasnt as bad this year but he didnt have half the wins he had at the first of the year. He had been rocked a few times then he comes in and is just on fire shutting down fantastic lineups.

Plus you think the umpires are going to throw Kenny out bc then he would have to be suspended for the rest of the World Series which gives the Cardinals an advantage. Which makes the series less likely to go seven you think major league baseball wants another sweep no way they want this thing to go seven and there going to try there hardest to get it there.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
look behind his ear...something looks funny there too. COuld be just a shadow or something though
:doh: :doh: Well, that explains it right there. When he pulled his head out of his butt, something was transferred to his hand. :devil:

[kaorder1999]

From ESPN....

"After the game, Rogers denied that his meeting with the umpires had anything to do with the substance on his hand. "

Guess he didn't think that the Umpire would talk to the media.

"So Marquez had a conversation with Rogers and, according to Palermo, said, "Kenny, that dirt thing that you've got on your hand, if you'll do me a favor and just take it off."

[buffpride]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
look behind his ear...something looks funny there too. COuld be just a shadow or something though


ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!

[kaorder1999]

FROM ESPN.COM

We learned in journalism class that you should always start these tales with the person involved. So fine. We'll let Rogers give his fascinating version of these events.

What was on his hand? "A big clump of dirt," Rogers said.

And where did that clump come from? It was "dirt and rosin" he used to "rub up the baseball," and it was "left on my hand when I rubbed them up."

Yet even after warming up and then throwing 18 pitches to five different hitters in the first inning, he still "didn't know it was there." But then "they told me, and I took it off, and it wasn't a big deal."

Oh. So the umpires told him to "take it off?" Well, no, he claimed. He "just saw it." He "didn't know it was there until after the inning." So he simply "took it off, and it wasn't a big deal."

And that shot that the TV cameras showed of Rogers in deep second-inning conversation with plate ump Alfonso Marquez? "He just came and told me how much time I had between the innings."

Oh. So Marquez never mentioned that humongous clump of dirt? "No."

All righty then. So that's the end of it. Right? A clump of dirt happened to appear on his pitching hand, and he wiped it off, and then went back to being Sandy Koufax.

Or maybe not.

Because his own manager, Mr. Jim Leyland, said the umpires "made Kenny wash his hands." And Steve Palermo, an MLB umpiring supervisor, reported that Marquez "asked Kenny to remove that dirt, so there wouldn't be any question as far as that controversy."

Great. Took care of that controversy stuff in no time flat, didn't they? Cleared it right up.

So this should be the point where we should be moving on to talk about Rogers' sensational evening on the old pitcher's mound, right? Nope. Sorry. Not quite yet.

Because if Rogers was so darned innocent, how come he was trying so hard to deny everything except his pitch count?

[vet93]

I think that it COULD be some kind of clear "sticky" substance that is only noticeable when it attracts dirt...if indeed those photos from two seperate games were not photoshopped...the evidence could be somewhat indicting....

[kaorder1999]

either a sticky substance that could attract and cause the dirt to stick on his hand OR pine tar. (ESPN was the first to bring up the pine tar possibility)

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by vet93
I think that it COULD be some kind of clear "sticky" substance that is only noticeable when it attracts dirt...if indeed those photos from two seperate games were not photoshopped...the evidence could be somewhat indicting....

Uh oh...don't start in with the cream and the clear!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

[kaorder1999]

an ESPN Poll

3) Do you believe Kenny Rogers was knowingly attempting to gain an advantage with the substance that cameras showed on his hand in the first inning of Game 2?


62.2% Yes

37.8% No

BUT IM SURE ITS JUST RANGER FANS VOTING.....

[Snyder_TigerFan]

Originally posted by vet93
I think that it COULD be some kind of clear "sticky" substance that is only noticeable when it attracts dirt...if indeed those photos from two seperate games were not photoshopped...the evidence could be somewhat indicting....

The caption under the photo from ESPN reads -

Shots of Rogers' hand from Game 3 of the ALCS, left, and Sunday.

[3afan]

well - the ump and the opposing manager said it was nothing, so lets just go with that .............

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by 3afan
well - the ump and the opposing manager said it was nothing, so lets just go with that .............

welcome to the world of investigative media. Stories aren't allowed to be "nothing" anymore...sorry! ;)

[kaorder1999]

Rafael Palmeiro told the nation he had never taken steriods and never will. He goes on to be suspended for violating the leagues illegal steroid policy. Of course since Bonds says he never used steriods all of america is just supposed to sit back and believe him. By god Kenny said it was nothing so I guess I'm supposed to believe him too! Man I'm an idiot.

[spiveyrat]

Originally posted by Snyder_TigerFan
These pictures are from 2 different games. Cheater.
http://espn-ak.starwave.com/photo/2006/1023/mlb_rogers_hands_412.jpg

Looks like he's had a haircut since then. :D

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by spiveyrat
Looks like he's had a haircut since then. :D

remember...that could have been photoshopped....:rolleyes:

[IHStangFan]

thats snuff spit.....he spit on his hand :D

[3afan]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
welcome to the world of investigative media. Stories aren't allowed to be "nothing" anymore...sorry! ;)

either are non-stories! :cool:

[kepdawg]

A baseball player may have cheated? :eek:

What's next? Santa Clause isn't real? :rolleyes:

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by kepdawg
A baseball player may have cheated? :eek:

What's next? Santa Clause isn't real? :rolleyes: Okay - that was funny!!! LOL!! :D

[g$$]

Everybody is always trying to gain an advantage. Yes, I think Rogers had an illegal substance on his hand. Pitchers do it all the time. Pine tar, silicone, vaseline, etc. are used to get a better grip on the ball, just like a batter's bat. A pitcher will put it on his hand, neck, under the bill of the cap, catcher's glove, another player will rub the ball up, etc. Catchers will use their shin guards to scuff a ball & so will other players on the team using sharpened eyelets on their gloves. But, a foreign substance on the ball will deface the ball & can cause more movement into the wind going to home plate. Ask Gaylord Perry if it works! Jay Howell got suspended 2 games for using pine tar in 1988 World Series.

Look at the color of the stuff on his hand. Sure looks like pine tar mixed with dirt & resin (yellowish tint & sticky). Dirt is NOT an illegal substance by itself. Pine tar for a pitcher is illegal because it gives him an advantage. LaRussa blew it by not asking for Rogers to be checked more closely (maybe due to his close ties with Leyland). Rogers washed his hands but his left hand was still discolored. He probably just changed the spot on his body or got another player to help him out. He is not the first or last to do it. But today there are so many cameras, internet, etc. & so it's hard to hide much nowadays. LaRussa is as much to blame as Rogers for not asking the umps to check him out more closely. Get into his head if nothing else.

EDIT: **ESPN is reporting the stuff is an iodine mixture, the same stuff used by musicians & people who use their hands a lot. Also used to close cuts not needing stitches. Tacky substance that stains the hands. Could it help? Heck yeah.

[eagles_victory]

guy goes from an 8.85 era. and hasnt beat the yankees in 13 years and catches fire and becomes unhittable hmm 23 scorless innings

[mwynn05]

Originally posted by g$$
Everybody is always trying to gain an advantage. Yes, I think Rogers had an illegal substance on his hand. Pitchers do it all the time. Pine tar, silicone, vaseline, etc. are used to get a better grip on the ball, just like a batter's bat. A pitcher will put it on his hand, neck, under the bill of the cap, catcher's glove, another player will rub the ball up, etc. Catchers will use their shin guards to scuff a ball & so will other players on the team using sharpened eyelets on their gloves. But, a foreign substance on the ball will deface the ball & can cause more movement into the wind going to home plate. Ask Gaylord Perry if it works! Jay Howell got suspended 2 games for using pine tar in 1988 World Series.

Look at the color of the stuff on his hand. Sure looks like pine tar mixed with dirt & resin (yellowish tint & sticky). Dirt is NOT an illegal substance by itself. Pine tar for a pitcher is illegal because it gives him an advantage. LaRussa blew it by not asking for Rogers to be checked more closely (maybe due to his close ties with Leyland). Rogers washed his hands but his left hand was still discolored. He probably just changed the spot on his body or got another player to help him out. He is not the first or last to do it. But today there are so many cameras, internet, etc. & so it's hard to hide much nowadays. LaRussa is as much to blame as Rogers for not asking the umps to check him out more closely. Get into his head if nothing else.

EDIT: **ESPN is reporting the stuff is an iodine mixture, the same stuff used by musicians & people who use their hands a lot. Also used to close cuts not needing stitches. Tacky substance that stains the hands. Could it help? Heck yeah. espn also reported the same thing was there in the same spot in the yanks and a's series'

[coach]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
guy goes from an 8.85 era. and hasnt beat the yankees in 13 years and catches fire and becomes unhittable hmm 23 scorless innings
qiut tryin to make escuses for the stanks what about the other three games......

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by coach
qiut tryin to make escuses for the stanks what about the other three games...... they won one of them u can talk when little boston wins the divison