Can Texas get back in the NC Picture??? [Archive]

WestTXLonghorn

10-09-2006, 07:24 PM

Ohio State- Should go undefeated. Only tough game is the last one with Michigan but I think it's at Columbus so that'll help.

Florida- They played a pissed off Auburn squad this week. Ouch. Still have to play Georgia, the Gamecocks which will be interesting, and Florida State and then they have to play the SEC title game. Ouch. I think they drop a game here somewhere.

USC- The Trojans have been playing bad lately and aren't nearly as impressive as that #3 ranking. They could possibly drop one to Oregon or Notre Dame, but their real test comes against a Cal squad that looks like world beaters ever since the debacle with Tennessee. I think they drop a game or 2.

Michigan- Still has to play Iowa, etc., but they get the Buckeyes for their finale. I think they lose that game and go 12-1.

West Virginia- THE most overrated team in the Top 10. Could barely pull it out over East Carolina....Slaton and White can run great, but they never have to throw. Louisville has been looking stellar even w/o Bush and Brohm and I think the Mountaineers drop this game because it is at Louisville. Also, they play Cincinnati who has looked tough against Ohio State and Va. Tech. . .could be an upset there. They finish the season with Rutgers who has been surprisingly good. Could lose that game as well.

So, I definitely think Texas has an outside shot at the title game. The voters like underdogs but they also like seeing the defending champs play in the championship game again if they are there and deserving. Also, the BCS is going to help us out some. The Horns will have quality wins over around 3-4 Top 25 teams which will be much better than West Virginia and others. Gotta win out first though.

lostaussie

10-09-2006, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by wedo
i think that it is very realistic!! the only team in the top 5 that won't lose a game is tOSU. WV is overrated and will lose to louiville!! If not i think that they get jumped in the polls regardless if they are undefeated !! Everyone who votes knows that they have played no one!!! then hopefully a rematch Texas vs tOSU !!! Thats is how i picture it playing out!!!! what if louiville beats WV and jumps over Texas. so many scenarios to play out. Texas better just keep on winning. they certainly need some help!!!!

RMAC

10-09-2006, 07:46 PM

They've still got to win all of their games. You guys haven't been paying any attention to Phil at all. There's still a lot of football left to be played here and Texas, like it or not, is not guaranteed a spot even the in the Big XII title game. Anything can happen.

Bulldog_12

10-09-2006, 07:54 PM

I dont see Louisville beating WV. They had real trouble getting it going against Middle Tennessee. Eventually the talent took over and they pulled away, but I dont think the Cards can beat WV with their backups.

District303aPastPlayer

10-09-2006, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by Bulldog_12
I dont see Louisville beating WV. They had real trouble getting it going against Middle Tennessee. Eventually the talent took over and they pulled away, but I dont think the Cards can beat WV with their backups.

Brohm will be back by this weeks Cinci game at the earliest... the WVU game by the latest...

maestro

10-09-2006, 08:46 PM

of course they can.

Texas lost early. Pollsters tend to let teams back into the hunt.

Adidas410s

10-09-2006, 09:54 PM

people are also forgetting about Cal. If they can knock of USC they too would have a realistic shot of moving very high in the polls and could possibly overtake Texas...if nothing else than it's the voters way to make it up to Tedford for leaving them out of the BCS.

mrescape43

10-09-2006, 10:14 PM

I don't think that they have a chance. Only really good defense they have faced totally shut them down.

Bulldog_12

10-09-2006, 10:25 PM

Originally posted by mrescape43
I don't think that they have a chance. Only really good defense they have faced totally shut them down.

true, but nobody else that they will face has a very daunting defense at this point. Mizzou has one of the best and they wont play them until the Big 12 Championship. And not even that is guaranteed.

big daddy russ

10-09-2006, 10:32 PM

Originally posted by Adidas410s
people are also forgetting about Cal. If they can knock of USC they too would have a realistic shot of moving very high in the polls and could possibly overtake Texas...if nothing else than it's the voters way to make it up to Tedford for leaving them out of the BCS.
And Tennessee. If they win out, they would steal votes from UT based on the schedule they played.

WestTXLonghorn

10-09-2006, 10:39 PM

All of that might happen, but I doubt it.

When it comes down to the nitty gritty. . .UT will have the "best loss" in the country when stacked up against everyone else. If we had WVU's schedule then we might get leapfrogged, but we'll have several quality wins on our resume by season's end. Being the defending champs helps too. Who do you think the sportswriters will want to send to the championship game to face the Buckeyes? A ratings disaster like West Virginia, a team with one loss to a mediocre school like Tennessee or Cal, or the defending natty champs?

big daddy russ

10-09-2006, 10:44 PM

Originally posted by WestTXLonghorn
All of that might happen, but I doubt it.

When it comes down to the nitty gritty. . .UT will have the "best loss" in the country when stacked up against everyone else. If we had WVU's schedule then we might get leapfrogged, but we'll have several quality wins on our resume by season's end. Being the defending champs helps too. Who do you think the sportswriters will want to send to the championship game to face the Buckeyes? A ratings disaster like West Virginia, a team with one loss to a mediocre school like Tennessee or Cal, or the defending natty champs?
You're right about their pull with the National Championship in tow, but you're wrong about the Vols' and Bears' losses. The Vols lost to Florida by one. The Bears lost to Tennessee.

You still have a chance, but it's still an outside shot until someone beats WVU, Louisville, USC, Michigan, and/or Ohio State loses.

WestTXLonghorn

10-09-2006, 11:23 PM

Originally posted by big daddy russ
You're right about their pull with the National Championship in tow, but you're wrong about the Vols' and Bears' losses. The Vols lost to Florida by one. The Bears lost to Tennessee.

You still have a chance, but it's still an outside shot until someone beats WVU, Louisville, USC, Michigan, and/or Ohio State loses.

Oh, definitely it isn't better than an outside shot. However, I just don't see many teams with a loss jumping us when our loss was in week 2 to the #1 team in the land. Only team I can possibly see leapfrogging us is Louisville if they beat WVU and win-out.

I think the Auburn/Arkansas game just goes to show that there really isn't a single dominant team in college football this year. Anyone can get knocked off at any time and that is good news for Texas if we keep ourselves together and play tough every week.

I just have a sneaking suspicion that Florida, USC, and WV are going to take a tumble before the season is done which would hopefully put the Horns right behind the winner of tOSU/Michigan. Will be very interesting to see how the rest of the season plays out, especially once the BCS polls get released.

District303aPastPlayer

10-09-2006, 11:33 PM

Louisville wont beat WVU, i dont care if it is at the Pizza Hut Palace or wahtever... and if a 1 loss team gets into the Ship and there is another undefeated team out there... the National Championship is pretty much split... Ask LSU... their BCS title is all but forgotten thanks to USC

Old Tiger

10-10-2006, 12:00 AM

Originally posted by District303aPastPlayer
Louisville wont beat WVU, i dont care if it is at the Pizza Hut Palace or wahtever... and if a 1 loss team gets into the Ship and there is another undefeated team out there... the National Championship is pretty much split... Ask LSU... their BCS title is all but forgotten thanks to USC That sucks for them. They get no recognizition what so ever!!!

Stownhorse

10-10-2006, 12:26 AM

I think USC will lose to Oregon, they just dont have it this year.
I think Mich. steps up and puts tOSU's fire out.
I think Texas HAS to win out.
I think WV gets beat by Rutgers on Dec. 2.
I think Florida gets beat by Auburn or maybe even in Georgia.

And Texas will be lucky to get that haha

Bulldog_12

10-10-2006, 12:32 AM

Originally posted by Stownhorse

I think WV gets beat by Rutgers on Dec. 2.

Heres another scenario, say Rutgers beats both Louisville and WV and wins the Big East? Could they possibly jump up ahead of Texas in any BCS polls?

Stownhorse

10-10-2006, 12:40 AM

Originally posted by Bulldog_12
Heres another scenario, say Rutgers beats both Louisville and WV and wins the Big East? Could they possibly jump up ahead of Texas in any BCS polls?

Its possible. They are playing some good ball.

WestTXLonghorn

10-10-2006, 02:09 AM

Originally posted by District303aPastPlayer
Louisville wont beat WVU, i dont care if it is at the Pizza Hut Palace or wahtever... and if a 1 loss team gets into the Ship and there is another undefeated team out there... the National Championship is pretty much split... Ask LSU... their BCS title is all but forgotten thanks to USC

The East Carolina Pirates almost beat West Virginia, so I definitely think the Louisville Cardinals have a shot at least.;)

JasperDog94

10-10-2006, 08:49 AM

playoffs anyone?:(

Darren

10-10-2006, 09:01 AM

It would be nice to see Texas in the running again but they are going to need alot of help.

I just don't see it happening..

Old Tiger

10-10-2006, 09:02 AM

"Playoffs? Playoffs? We're just trying to win a damn game."

-Herm Edwards

injuredinmelee

10-10-2006, 09:02 AM

It really hurts the Horns playing in the big 12 this season. Top to bottom there is only one teir 1 team that being the Longhorns. Nebraska is overrated, Missouri who nows they havent really played anyone yet.

JasperDog94

10-10-2006, 09:39 AM

Nebraska being overrated could actually help us.

wedo

10-10-2006, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by JasperDog94
Nebraska being overrated could actually help us.

true that!!!

g$$

10-10-2006, 12:22 PM

West Va, weak schedule or not, is the wild card here. Plus they have some pull going back to beating Georgia last year in the Sugar Bowl. That win earned their program some respect.

Texas still has a shot. Lots of stuff has to fall right. But I believe an undefeated WVU will play undefeated Ohio St. in the end.

g$$

10-10-2006, 12:26 PM

And the Big 12 being down as a whole will NOT help Texas' strength of schedule. Had OU been undefeated (replay debacle...), it would have helped them more. If Mizzou runs the table, that would help the Big 12 title game. But Mizzou does go to Lincoln, as does Texas. We'll see I guess.

JasperDog94

10-10-2006, 12:44 PM

Also, if Tennessee goes the rest of the way in the SEC, then I think they leapfrog Texas.

KTJ

10-10-2006, 12:57 PM

Can we? Yes

Will we? There's no telling.

Before the Texas/OU game, people papers across the country said "no, they won't repeat." AFTER the Texas/OU game, I've read several papers calling UT the "best 1 loss team in the country." As long as we keep winning, there won't be any teams that will jump us. My prediction is as follows:

West Virginia: Still has to play at Pitt (rivalry) and at Louisville. They also play Rutgers at home the last game of the season. They will lose at least 1 of those 3. What's funny about WVU is that most pollsters are ranking them anywhere from #1 to #12. That difference is huge.

Louisville: Already ranked behind Texas in the polls. They shouldn't jump UT based on the horridness of the Big East. Yeah, the Big 12 is not that great this year, but at least we have 4-5 schools ranked in the top 25. Plus, UT being UT should keep us ahead.

Florida: Will lose to Auburn this weekend. Mark it down. If they don't, they still have to get by Georgia at the Cocktail Party and they play at Florida State. (A key win by FSU will sort of salvage their season.)

Michigan: A possible trap game this weekend??? Michigan goes to Penn State on Saturday. It's an 8pm kickoff and the folks at Beaver Stadium will be ready for an upset. It's a perfect setup for an upset as well. If UM gets by PSU, they are clear sailing until the Ohio State game. (Michigan will beat Iowa soundly. Iowa is vastly overrated.)

Ohio State: Will win out. Only trap game is this weekend at Michigan State. I say that because Michigan State is notorious for beating a high ranked opponent just randomly during the season. It's happened before in the past and it can most certainly happen again.

USC: With the way USC is playing as of late, you've got to like the chances of the losing 1 or 2 games down the stretch. Arizona State, at Oregon State, Stanford, Oregon, California, Notre Dame, and at UCLA.

=====

I'm really not worried about us making it back to the NC game. If we do, that's great. But let's just win the Big 12 first. That should be the main goal. We do that, and we're automatically in a BCS game. Everything else will take care of itself. Texas fans shouldn't get caught up in trying to make it back to the MNC game. Just win and everything will fall into place. And if we don't, you should be happy with another Big 12 title and BCS bowl appearance. THIS SEASON WILL NOT BE A LOSS IF WE DON'T MAKE IT BACK TO THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP GAME. <--That's the point that I think some fans don't comprehend.

Bulldog_12

10-10-2006, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by KTJ

I'm really not worried about us making it back to the NC game. If we do, that's great. But let's just win the Big 12 first. That should be the main goal. We do that, and we're automatically in a BCS game. Everything else will take care of itself. Texas fans shouldn't get caught up in trying to make it back to the MNC game. Just win and everything will fall into place. And if we don't, you should be happy with another Big 12 title and BCS bowl appearance. THIS SEASON WILL NOT BE A LOSS IF WE DON'T MAKE IT BACK TO THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP GAME. <--That's the point that I think some fans don't comprehend.

I have a question regarding this, and it is serious. What do you think will happen with the fans, school, etc If this team hits a roadblock along the way and either doesnt win the championship game or even worse, doesnt make it. What is your perspective on what the general feelings would be?

wedo

10-10-2006, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by Bulldog_12
I have a question regarding this, and it is serious. What do you think will happen with the fans, school, etc If this team hits a roadblock along the way and either doesnt win the championship game or even worse, doesnt make it. What is your perspective on what the general feelings would be?

I think that the only way Texas doesn't win the BIG12 is if they all of a sudden have a bunch of injuries or just kill themselves!! No one in on the schedule will give Texas problems exept Nebraska and the A&M game might be close the first 3 quarters like last year only b/c its a rivalry and then the talent will take over!!!

Bulldog_12

10-10-2006, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by wedo
I think that the only way Texas doesn't win the BIG12 is if they all of a sudden have a bunch of injuries or just kill themselves!! No one in on the schedule will give Texas problems exept Nebraska and the A&M game might be close the first 3 quarters like last year only b/c its a rivalry and then the talent will take over!!!

You have to remember, this is college football. Its why they play the game. What if OSU actually hangs on this year to win? What if Phil is right and Baylor brings it this weekend (purely hypothetical). I mean, anything can happen on any saturday. Auburn looked pretty strong too and just had a really bad day. Texas is good, but I think they are more beatable then they have been as of late.

wedo

10-10-2006, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by Bulldog_12
You have to remember, this is college football. Its why they play the game. What if OSU actually hangs on this year to win? What if Phil is right and Baylor brings it this weekend (purely hypothetical). I mean, anything can happen on any saturday. Auburn looked pretty strong too and just had a really bad day. Texas is good, but I think they are more beatable then they have been as of late.

well any team is beatable!!! I think that Texas wasn't has good in week 2 as they are now!! Colt is playing a lot better and i think that he will lead them to the conf. title!! And yes anything CAN happen!! But this is how it should happen IMO!!!

Bulldog_12

10-10-2006, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by wedo
well any team is beatable!!! I think that Texas wasn't has good in week 2 as they are now!! Colt is playing a lot better and i think that he will lead them to the conf. title!! And yes anything CAN happen!! But this is how it should happen IMO!!!

Thats all fine and good, we all know what they SHOULD do, but I am asking what will happen and what will the attitudes be IF what they SHOULD do doesnt happen.

wedo

10-10-2006, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by Bulldog_12
Thats all fine and good, we all know what they SHOULD do, but I am asking what will happen and what will the attitudes be IF what they SHOULD do doesnt happen.

I 'll be a lil disappointed but o well !!! Texas as won a NC in my lifetime already!!! If not this year they will make a strong run next year and the year after IMO!!!

KTJ

10-10-2006, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by Bulldog_12
I have a question regarding this, and it is serious. What do you think will happen with the fans, school, etc If this team hits a roadblock along the way and either doesnt win the championship game or even worse, doesnt make it. What is your perspective on what the general feelings would be?

A 10-2 season is still pretty good, considering people thought we were going 9-3, 8-4, or 7-5 this year, wouldn't beat OU, and would possibly finish 3rd in the South.

Considering what happened last year, the good year we've had so far this year, and what we know about the next several years with this program, I think the fans will still be exicited about Texas football.

Bull Butter

10-10-2006, 03:17 PM

CBS Sportsline's Bowl projections have Texas vs. Boise St. in the Fiesta

KTJ

10-10-2006, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by Bull Butter
CBS Sportsline's Bowl projections have Texas vs. Boise St. in the Fiesta

A few other sites are predicting Texas vs Notre Dame in the Fiesta.

We'll see....

Bull Butter

10-10-2006, 03:23 PM

CBS was the only one i had seen so far. Who has the other projections?

GreenMachine

10-10-2006, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by KTJ
A few other sites are predicting Texas vs Notre Dame in the Fiesta.

We'll see.... Texas better hope not :D

WestTXLonghorn

10-10-2006, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by Bulldog_12
Thats all fine and good, we all know what they SHOULD do, but I am asking what will happen and what will the attitudes be IF what they SHOULD do doesnt happen.

Obviously if we don't win out then we don't deserve to go to a BCS game or the title game.

If we drop a game we shouldn't then of course the attitude is going to be that this team wasn't consistent enough to be ready for the big time. What other reaction would there be?

All that nonsense being said. . .I really don't see anyone except maybe Nebraska knocking us off. Last year the Big 12 got a bad rap but there were some really good teams out there. Texas Tech was MUCH better last year than this year. . .ATM benched Reggie "Weak Ankles" McNeal and brought in McGee with a surprise option attack which kept that game exciting, etc.

This year, the story is completely different. Texas Tech is fairly atrocious. ATM isn't good and they aren't going to be able to pull any surprises. Oklahoma State plays us at our house and after two years of them pulling 1st half heroics on us, I doubt Mack lets that happen again. Nebraska, while better than they have been recently is still not a great football team, but that game WILL be interesting since it is in Lincoln, even tho Texas is undefeated there against the Cornhuskers since Mack's been around.

It's just really hard to get upset by teams when you are extremely more athletic than they are and you play outstanding defense. Of course anything could happen on any given Saturday.

WestTXLonghorn

10-10-2006, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by GreenMachine
Texas better hope not :D

Yeah, because I'm sure Texas is scared of that VAUNTED Notre Dame defense and an offense that hasn't done jack against any teams worth mentioning.;)

GreenMachine

10-10-2006, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by WestTXLonghorn
Yeah, because I'm sure Texas is scared of that VAUNTED Notre Dame defense and an offense that hasn't done jack against any teams worth mentioning.;) Texas sure beat teams worth mentioning - North Texas, Rice, Iowa State, SHSU. Killer schedule. :eek: The only team worth mentioning, Ohio State, won convincingly. Oh, and Texas beat the sooners ;)

g$$

10-10-2006, 05:43 PM

I love that line about the A&M game last year. The "surprise option attack" against A&M. What?

1. Running the option & playing against the option is learned in every junior high in the country. It is assignment football - who's got dive, keep, & pitch on every play. QB reads the tackle or end, depending on what you're doing. Then play action pass off of that. That is weak - every player on that field had played against the option many times. This just in...it's been around for quite a while!

2. It was the worst kept secret in the country that McNeal was out for the game. McGee played the 2nd half vs. OU the previous week anyway. Courtney Lewis & VY are best friends from hs. Everyone knew McGee would be starting.

3. A&M played on emotion for most of 3 quarters & rallied around McGee. The blocked punt & muffed punt swung the ballgame. VY had a horrible game w/ 2 turnovers & 181 total yds. The better team won.

Just call a spade a spade. Texas won in the end but don't use the weak "option" excuse. Fran has run a lot of option everywhere he's been (be it triple option or the spread option). Maybe your coaches did not plan accordingly & make the necessary adjustments. Maybe A&M played pretty well. Or could that actually happen against your Horns? A&M did not invent some "new" offense that day. They just ran the heck out of an old one. Give me a break.

Old Tiger

10-10-2006, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by g$$
I love that line about the A&M game last year. The "surprise option attack" against A&M. What?

1. Running the option & playing against the option is learned in every junior high in the country. It is assignment football - who's got dive, keep, & pitch on every play. QB reads the tackle or end, depending on what you're doing. Then play action pass off of that. That is weak - every player on that field had played against the option many times. This just in...it's been around for quite a while!

2. It was the worst kept secret in the country that McNeal was out for the game. McGee played the 2nd half vs. OU the previous week anyway. Courtney Lewis & VY are best friends from hs. Everyone knew McGee would be starting.

3. A&M played on emotion for most of 3 quarters & rallied around McGee. The blocked punt & muffed punt swung the ballgame. VY had a horrible game w/ 2 turnovers & 181 total yds. The better team won.

Just call a spade a spade. Texas won in the end but don't use the weak "option" excuse. Fran has run a lot of option everywhere he's been (be it triple option or the spread option). Maybe your coaches did not plan accordingly & make the necessary adjustments. Maybe A&M played pretty well. Or could that actually happen against your Horns? A&M did not invent some "new" offense that day. They just ran the heck out of an old one. Give me a break. Not making any excuses but Vince was sick the entire week prior to the game.

g$$

10-10-2006, 05:50 PM

True, but are you making excuses? Every team in the country has injuries esp. in late November. Part of the game.

Old Tiger

10-10-2006, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by g$$
True, but are you making excuses? Every team in the country has injuries esp. in late November. Part of the game. Dude it's Vince Young! Everyone knows he would of hade 400+ total yards if he wasn't :D

g$$

10-10-2006, 06:05 PM

That's not a guarantee for anybody. I don't doubt he was a little sick. He played & his team won. No excuses.

I watched him throw for 63 yds. & run for 43 Sunday. Threw a pick too. Week before he was worse. That NFL is not so easy is it? Everybody on that field can run & tackle. No doubt he will get better but he will NOT be a superstar in the NFL. You have to be able to throw the ball down the field against multiple fronts & coverages. VY is an all-time great in college, but will be just another qb in the NFL.

You guys act like only God himself can prevent Texas from winning each game. You ever considered giving the other team credit? They give out scholarships too. Just wondering...

wedo

10-10-2006, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by g$$
That's not a guarantee for anybody. I don't doubt he was a little sick. He played & his team won. No excuses.

I watched him throw for 63 yds. & run for 43 Sunday. Threw a pick too. Week before he was worse. That NFL is not so easy is it? Everybody on that field can run & tackle. No doubt he will get better but he will NOT be a superstar in the NFL. You have to be able to throw the ball down the field against multiple fronts & coverages. VY is an all-time great in college, but will be just another qb in the NFL.

You guys act like only God himself can prevent Texas from winning each game. You ever considered giving the other team credit? They give out scholarships too. Just wondering...

VY will be a great qb in the NFL!! And he can throw the ball down field, he probably had the best arm beside cutler than all the other qb that came out this year!!! Yeah A&M played hard last year and they will this year, but they don't have the talent that Texas does last or this year !!!

g$$

10-10-2006, 06:57 PM

Having a decent arm & being able to read defenses are 2 entirely separate deals. Ex. Jeff George, & he flopped miserably. VY throws a good deep ball, but struggles to throw the deep cross or fit the ball into tight windows. There is very little separation by receivers in the NFL & these tough throws must be made. Great runner yes, good passer no. And 1 dimensional QBs in the NFL struggle big-time & eventually get hurt. Ex. Michael Vick (VY got hurt more in the preseason than his entire career at Texas - twice). I respect VY as a phenomenal athlete & leader, but the NFL is a whole different level. Athletic ability will only take you so far against those animals on Sundays esp. at a position like QB.

Please tell me you don't really believe the zone read offense will work in the NFL other than a few plays per game? VY will be a good NFL QB, but never great due to his passing skills & inability to read complex defenses. That is my opinion & time will tell.

WestTXLonghorn

10-10-2006, 07:14 PM

C'mon now g$$. Quit trying to spin things. We all know that pick he threw was a heave downfield right before the half on a ridiculous trick play.

Even the ESPN "experts" who normally talk a ton of trash about Vince have been talking about how good he's looked.

And yes, every team knows what the option is, but they sure don't prepare for it every week. ATM had run the option little to none before they played Texas and then it all of a sudden became their main attack? C'mon, now. Take off the marroon shades and realize that Fran was trying to pull off anything he could to beat Texas or at least keep the game close. He did that, and all the ATM faithful bought into it and how Fran was final turning the program yada yada and how Stephen McGee was going to take you guys to the promised land yada yada.

Anyway, I wish you'd stop trying to spin this into a Vince stinks in the NFL, and ATM really is good argument. The original question was would Texas drop a game and what would be the attitude in Austin if they did. It was a dumb question to begin with, but it had nothing to do with Vince at all and the Aggies were only used as a small part of a larger argument about the Big 12. Please, quit obsessing and trying to start fights over this stuff. If anything I said offended you, sorry. . .but there's no need to spin it as a personal attack against you or your team and then use that as an excuse to talk down about Vince.

EDIT: Vince throws spectacular passes. He just happens to have junk for receivers who consistently drop balls on him, like Wade who dropped a sure TD pass late in the 4th quarter which would have won them the game against the Colts.

g$$

10-10-2006, 07:28 PM

I respect the heck out of VY, & said so above. I do not think he will be an NFL superstar at QB. You're right about last week's pick, but the week before he threw some horrible balls into traffic & paid the price. He has charisma & uncanny athletic ability, but he will struggle to pass in the NFL. The Titans are crap, agreed. Bud Adams took him because of the Houston connection & to sell tickets. Time will tell, but I think Leinart & Cutler will be better pros when it's all said & done.

A&M ran the spread option all year w/ Reggie. It really did not suit his strengths & ability to improvise to be honest. McGee did run the ball more vs. Texas than Reggie would have. McGee will be fine as he develops his game. He has struggled a lot throwing the ball & he stares down receivers right now. He may have a new coaching staff to help him too. McGee has ability & lots of intangibles too.

I answered the original question on Texas & needing some help along the way. WVU is the wild card IMO. If they are undefeated & beat Louisville (on the road) & Rutgers, Texas will not jump them no matter how much some complain.

**I NEVER said A&M was good. I think they go 7-5 (then crappy bowl) & we have a new coach next year. I just asked that Texas fans be objective & give other teams credit occasionally.

Old Tiger

10-10-2006, 09:35 PM

Originally posted by g$$
That's not a guarantee for anybody. I don't doubt he was a little sick. He played & his team won. No excuses.

I watched him throw for 63 yds. & run for 43 Sunday. Threw a pick too. Week before he was worse. That NFL is not so easy is it? Everybody on that field can run & tackle. No doubt he will get better but he will NOT be a superstar in the NFL. You have to be able to throw the ball down the field against multiple fronts & coverages. VY is an all-time great in college, but will be just another qb in the NFL.

You guys act like only God himself can prevent Texas from winning each game. You ever considered giving the other team credit? They give out scholarships too. Just wondering... Not many NFL quarterbacks were superstars. Peyton Manning, Elie Manning, Carson Palmer, Troy Aikman. It's all about their second and third seasons.

Old Tiger

10-10-2006, 09:38 PM

On another note Vince is as accurate as Matt Leinarts with the arm strength of Cutler and the legs of Vick

Note - I'm not saying he has the speed of vick but the foot speed.

WTF-82

10-10-2006, 09:51 PM

N0, They beat a good Ou team but a team that might not be in
the top 25 when the season ends. But I do think Texas is a top 10 maybe 8. Another problem schedule is weak specially if Nebraska does not pick it up there strengh of schedule will keep getting weaker and weaker as the year goes on as some of the
big 12 teams get dropped.

wedo

10-10-2006, 11:37 PM

Originally posted by g$$
I respect the heck out of VY, & said so above. I do not think he will be an NFL superstar at QB. You're right about last week's pick, but the week before he threw some horrible balls into traffic & paid the price. He has charisma & uncanny athletic ability, but he will struggle to pass in the NFL. The Titans are crap, agreed. Bud Adams took him because of the Houston connection & to sell tickets. Time will tell, but I think Leinart & Cutler will be better pros when it's all said & done.

A&M ran the spread option all year w/ Reggie. It really did not suit his strengths & ability to improvise to be honest. McGee did run the ball more vs. Texas than Reggie would have. McGee will be fine as he develops his game. He has struggled a lot throwing the ball & he stares down receivers right now. He may have a new coaching staff to help him too. McGee has ability & lots of intangibles too.

I answered the original question on Texas & needing some help along the way. WVU is the wild card IMO. If they are undefeated & beat Louisville (on the road) & Rutgers, Texas will not jump them no matter how much some complain.

**I NEVER said A&M was good. I think they go 7-5 (then crappy bowl) & we have a new coach next year. I just asked that Texas fans be objective & give other teams credit occasionally.

Hey g$$ quit stealing my thread man !! This thread had nothing to do with Texas M&A ok!! lets just talk about the thread without talking about M&A

WestTXLonghorn

10-10-2006, 11:59 PM

In regards to Texas I think we'll be fine. We will more than likely win out and that right there assures us a BCS bowl bid. We'll get matched up against some overrated team like West Virginia or Notre Dame and we'll more than likely beat them with our dominant defense and stellar running game. I wouldn't call that a bad season at all.

We still have an outside shot at the title game and you only have to look at the schedules of the teams ahead of us to see that it is still a possibility.

At the end of the season we'll be sitting fine even playing in the Big 12 during a down year. We'll have quality wins over Oklahoma, Nebraska, and maybe Mizzou if they beat Nebraska as well and win the North. Add to that the fact that we're going to get votes just for being the defending champs and I don't see anyone jumping us. Especially if it's a team like Louisville who would be a ratings disaster for the BCS. So, we need WV, Michigan, USC, and Florida to lose. Not a single one of those teams are in the clear.

USC is looking very weak and they haven't even hit the tough part of their schedule. Cal or Oregon or Notre Dame could knock them off.

Michigan has to play Penn State then Iowa and then Ohio State and they just lost their best receiver in Manningham indefinitely.

West Virginia has been playing sub-par against sub-par competition and has to play Louisville and a surprisingly good Rutgers team.

And finally Florida. They have to knock off a pissed off Auburn team this week @ Auburn, then knock off Georgia, then knock off Spurrier's Gamecocks which are looking very good, and then knock off their rival FSU. Oh yeah, then they have to win the SEC title game.

If we keep our stuff together and win out we're for sure in a big time BCS bowl and have a good shot at sneaking into the title game.

JHS_c/o_06'

10-11-2006, 12:10 AM

All i know is that A&M sure looked good against Army and Kansas St. The Horns better watch out, maybe the fact that the game is in Austin will give them that extra 'bit' to beat them.

WestTXLonghorn

10-11-2006, 12:23 AM

Originally posted by JHS_c/o_06'
All i know is that A&M sure looked good against Army and Kansas St. The Horns better watch out, maybe the fact that the game is in Austin will give them that extra 'bit' to beat them.

Psssssssssssssssst!!! Hey, buddy! ATM doesn't even play Kansas State this year. Just thought you might like to know.
;)

Bulldog_12

10-11-2006, 12:29 AM

Originally posted by WestTXLonghorn
Psssssssssssssssst!!! Hey, buddy! ATM doesn't even play Kansas State this year. Just thought you might like to know.
;)

:thumbsup: He's a roadrunner, what do you expect?;)

YBS

10-11-2006, 07:41 AM

If Meechigan beats OSU you bet your fanny texas goes to the NC game. No way Florida or USC will win out, and West Virginia is honestly an afterthought for most voters, no offense to any fans. That leaves Louisville on the outside looking in w/ Texas and Michigan playing in a rematch of the 04/05 Rose Bowl. :eek:

greenpride

10-11-2006, 12:43 PM

wedo

10-11-2006, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by greenpride
You must be kidding, right?

Looked good against Army?? Yeah and Army just didn't almost win that game!! Actually Army should have won that game!! And then Army goes and gets slapped around by Rice!! man thats something to bragg about!!!

YBS

10-11-2006, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by wedo
Looked good against Army?? Yeah and Army just didn't almost win that game!! Actually Army should have won that game!! And then Army goes and gets slapped around by Rice!! man thats something to bragg about!!!

Unless A&M runs the table up until the T+1 game, I'm thinking texas doesn't have much to worry about :(

g$$

10-11-2006, 03:09 PM

If the guy above really thinks VY has the arm of Cutler & the accuracy of Leinart, with the raw speed of Vick then I sure hope you're never a coach. Cutler has a cannon & Vanderbilt smarts, Leinart is very accurate & has played in a pro style offense, & Vick is sick fast with quickness too (not a passer).

VY is a strong runner with unusual quickness & deception for a man his size. Watch the USC game again & count how many passes were thrown in the air more than 15 yds. downfield. I believe it is around 6 for the game (in the air, not run after catch). Now, give him credit for being a physical freak & an exceptional leader. He also is behind the learning curve after coming from the shotgun, zone read offense suited to him in college. That will NEVER work in the NFL more than a few plays.

But, all qbs need 3 yrs. in the pros before we can accurately judge them & the team around them. Time will tell on VY's progress at the highest level. But please don't put studs like both Mannings, Palmer, or Aikman in the same sentence as a raw VY. That is not fair or accurate.

WVU will not be jumped if they run the table. If they do that, they will have beaten more quality teams than Texas on the year. Compare both schedules & strength of teams. And the name Texas with 1 loss will not enable them to jump undefeated WVU or Louisville, depending on who wins. That's reality.

**A better comparison for VY would be to Randall Cunningham. Similar build & elusive, but Cunningham had a very strong arm. And as all running qbs do, he got hurt a lot in the NFL.

Old Tiger

10-11-2006, 03:16 PM

G$$

Originally posted by g$$
If the guy above really thinks VY has the arm of Cutler & the accuracy of Leinart, with the raw speed of Vick then I sure hope you're never a coach. Cutler has a cannon & Vanderbilt smarts, Leinart is very accurate & has played in a pro style offense, & Vick is sick fast with quickness too (not a passer).

Did you not read my post? I said not the speed of Vick!

Vince Young
Completion Percentage - 65.2
Rating - 163.9

Matt Leinart
Completion Percentage - 65.7
Rating - 157.7

Jay Cutler
Completion Percentage - 59.1
Rating - 126.1

*These were their final year in college*

Originally posted by Tiger WR
Not many NFL quarterbacks were superstars in their first year. Peyton Manning, Elie Manning, Carson Palmer, Troy Aikman. It's all about their second and third seasons.
Read that post again.

KTJ

10-11-2006, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by g$$
If the guy above really thinks VY has the arm of Cutler & the accuracy of Leinart, with the raw speed of Vick then I sure hope you're never a coach. Cutler has a cannon & Vanderbilt smarts, Leinart is very accurate & has played in a pro style offense, & Vick is sick fast with quickness too (not a passer).

VY is a strong runner with unusual quickness & deception for a man his size. Watch the USC game again & count how many passes were thrown in the air more than 15 yds. downfield. I believe it is around 6 for the game (in the air, not run after catch). Now, give him credit for being a physical freak & an exceptional leader. He also is behind the learning curve after coming from the shotgun, zone read offense suited to him in college. That will NEVER work in the NFL more than a few plays.

But, all qbs need 3 yrs. in the pros before we can accurately judge them & the team around them. Time will tell on VY's progress at the highest level. But please don't put studs like both Mannings, Palmer, or Aikman in the same sentence as a raw VY. That is not fair or accurate.

WVU will not be jumped if they run the table. If they do that, they will have beaten more quality teams than Texas on the year. Compare both schedules & strength of teams. And the name Texas with 1 loss will not enable them to jump undefeated WVU or Louisville, depending on who wins. That's reality.

**A better comparison for VY would be to Randall Cunningham. Similar build & elusive, but Cunningham had a very strong arm. And as all running qbs do, he got hurt a lot in the NFL.

Prelim BCS Standings have Texas at 8th (or 7th, but I'm sure it's 8th) and WVU at 11th or 12th.

Granted, all of that means nothing right now, but I just felt like responding.

:D

g$$

10-11-2006, 03:23 PM

Those are NOT their NFL #s. And, VY ran in the low 4.5s for the scouts, & Vick ran in the 4.3s when he came out. You do the math.

Speed = Foot Speed - what do you think is the difference based on your post below? Quickness is entirely different.

from Tiger WR: Note - I'm not saying he has the speed of vick but the foot speed. (huh?)

Time will tell on all 3 qbs. VY will be a good NOT great qb in the NFL in my opinion. Let it play out.

**Cutler played for Vanderbilt & put up those #s in the rugged SEC. Offensive Player of Year too. Look at the difference in teammates, etc. Cutler has a chance to be a really good one for Denver playing under Shanahan, maybe by next year.

Bulldog_12

10-11-2006, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by KTJ
Prelim BCS Standings have Texas at 8th (or 7th, but I'm sure it's 8th) and WVU at 11th or 12th.

Granted, all of that means nothing right now, but I just felt like responding.

:D

Didnt you get the Memo that we are no longer discussing the horns chances to get back in it, but in fact we are talking about VY in the NFL?????

Do your research KTJ!:mad:

WestTXLonghorn

10-11-2006, 03:27 PM

I'm too tired of the Vince hating to bother doing it, but if anyone likes they can go look up Peyton Manning's stats in his first year. They can also go look up Troy Aikman's and every other great QB in the NFL. They all stunk their first year.

Vince runs a sub 4.5 40. Vince is 235 lbs. of pure muscle and power. Vince was the 3rd most efficient passer in the NCAA. He completed 65%, the exact same as Matt Leinart when Leinart had been coached by Norm Chow (now Vince's coach) and Pete Carroll. . .two NFL caliber coaches. Oh yeah. . .Leinart had better receivers too.

Vince needs time to learn the plays and get adjusted to the speed of the NFL. That's it. Once that happens it's lights out. People have been saying he can't run in the NFL. . .well, he had a 20 yrd. TD run against the best team in the AFC and if his receivers were worth a damn and could catch his beautiful passes they would have beat the Colts soundly.

Vince is a freak of nature and it is just assinine to continue trying to degrade his perfomances and ability. ATM fans and others constantly talked about how much better Reggie McNeal was than Vince. What's Reggie doing now? Playing on the practice squad and getting pulled over by the Cincy police because he was in the car with a drunk driver. People constantly talked about how Vince couldn't throw. He then became a better passer than Matt Leinart and threw for over 3000 yrds while also rushing for over 1000. . .a feat that has NEVER been accomplished before. People then said he was too stupid to make it in the NFL and that no one would draft him. He's now already starting after what, 5 games?

I mean, seriously, do some of you have such loathing for the Longhorns that you're going to talk bad about the greatest college football player of his generation? If you want to say you don't like Vince, fine. But please, don't go off the deep end and start talking about how he's only going to be a mediocre QB in the NFL. The man has the greatest force of will I've ever seen in my life. If ever there was a natural born leader, it's Vince Young. That coupled with his freakish athletic ability is going to almost guarantee he's a huge success in the NFL unless he gets hurt. He plays on probably the worst team in the NFL and he spured them on to almost beat the Colts last week.

Also, again. . .please quit bringing Vince up in threads that have nothing to do with him g$$. It's ridiculous and it makes you look like a jealous little kid who can't get over the fact that he doesn't have the newest bike on the block or something. If you want to start a seperate thread to try and talk down about VY, be my guest but try and keep this one on topic.

Old Tiger

10-11-2006, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by g$$
Those are NOT their NFL #s. And, VY ran in the low 4.5s for the scouts, & Vick ran in the 4.3s when he came out. You do the math.

Speed = Foot Speed - what do you think is the difference based on your post? Quickness is entirely different.

Time will tell on all 3 qbs. VY will be a good NOT great qb in the NFL in my opinion. Let it play out.

**Cutler played for Vanderbilt & put up those #s in the rugged SEC. Offensive Player of Year too. Look at the difference in teammates, etc. Cutler has a chance to be a really good one for Denver playing under Shanahan, maybe by next year. I said legs but ok. How dare you tarnish the name of VY!

KTJ

10-11-2006, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by Bulldog_12
Didnt you get the Memo that we are no longer discussing the horns chances to get back in it, but in fact we are talking about VY in the NFL?????

Do your research KTJ!:mad:

SHOW SOME COMPASSION BULLDOG!

BTW, what's your score prediction for Saturday?

mwynn05

10-11-2006, 03:39 PM

Texas has to win out...and you heard it here that will NOT happen Texas is down this year thats just all there is to it...

WestTXLonghorn

10-11-2006, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by mwynn05
Texas has to win out...and you heard it here that will NOT happen Texas is down this year thats just all there is to it...

Texas is going to go 11-1 and they're having a "down year."

Yep, the tide has turned my friends.:D

EDIT: Here's a trivia question for all of you.

Which is the only team in college football has won 10 games each of the past five season?

Hint: They start with Long and end with horns.;)

Bulldog_12

10-11-2006, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by KTJ
SHOW SOME COMPASSION BULLDOG!

BTW, what's your score prediction for Saturday?

56-7 for you guys

35-24 us (may be optimistic, but at this time in Aggie football, I have to stay that way 24/7:D )

Old Tiger

10-11-2006, 03:41 PM

hahahaha

g$$

10-11-2006, 03:41 PM

I never compared Reggie McNeal to anything except a thug. Never liked him one bit.

The thread took this turn when West TX made the stupid statement about the "new option attack". It went from there.

I am not jealous of VY & have given him credit at every turn. If you think VY kept the Titans in that game, then you don't know football. Their running game & defense kept them in it. VY had a very basic game plan to work with too because they don't trust him with the offense. Wunderlich Score anybody? He completed less than 50% of his passes & had 106 total yds. for the game. He did nothing after the 1st quarter.

College stats will get you a cup of coffee in the NFL. They don't guarantee anyone success. Tom Brady split time in college, now look at him? Time will tell on VY's success or failure in the league.

Old Tiger

10-11-2006, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by g$$
I never compared Reggie McNeal to anything except a thug. Never liked him one bit.

The thread took this turn when West TX made the stupid statement about the "new option attack". It went from there.

I am not jealous of VY & have given him credit at every turn. If you think VY kept the Titans in that game, then you don't know football. Their running game & defense kept them in it. VY had a very basic game plan to work with too because they don't trust him with the offense. Wunderlich Score anybody? He completed less than 50% of his passes & had 106 total yds. for the game. He did nothing after the 1st quarter.

College stats will get you a cup of coffee in the NFL. They don't guarantee anyone success. Tom Brady split time in college, now look at him? Time will tell on his success or failure in the league. How many rookie QB's are trusted with the offense, seriously. NONE, not even Ben Roethlisburger. The Steelers used the run game to protect him.

Old Tiger

10-11-2006, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by WestTXLonghorn
Texas is going to go 11-1 and they're having a "down year."

Yep, the tide has turned my friends.:D

EDIT: Here's a trivia question for all of you.

Which is the only team in college football has won 10 games each of the past five season?

Hint: They start with Long and end with horns.;) Texas is the winningest team of the decade thus far.

1. Texas .854 (70-12)
2. Miami .848 (67-12)
3. OU .845 (71-13)
4. USC .790 (64-17)
4. (tie) Ohio State .790 (64-17)

g$$

10-11-2006, 03:57 PM

Very few are, correct. But I would submit Dan Marino as one. He went to his only Super Bowl in his 2nd year.

VY's biggest obstacle will be becoming a pro qb in a pro style offense. Can he throw the ball down the field? Everyone knows he can run. Time will tell.

Old Tiger

10-11-2006, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by g$$
Very few are, correct. But I would submit Dan Marino as one. He went to his only Super Bowl in his 2nd year.

VY's biggest obstacle will be becoming a pro qb in a pro style offense. Can he throw the ball down the field? Everyone knows he can run. Time will tell. That is what the scouts were most impressed with the accuracy on the deep ball.

Old Tiger

10-11-2006, 04:39 PM

Quote from his Prospect Profile for the Draft

Young is a rare athlete for a quarterback which allowed him to consistently make big plays -- both with his arm and his feet. Despite a raw throwing technique, he can get rid of the ball very fast and can make strong and accurate throws all over the field when he strides into his throws. He has the arm strength to make deep throws with zip and accuracy. He has outstanding playing strength to keep feet and make throws while defenders are grabbing at him and can run through tackles while scrambling. He is a great young man with outstanding character -- his work ethic, leadership and intangibles give him the tools to deal with being the leader of a team early in career.

g$$

10-11-2006, 04:43 PM

Throwing the deep ball & being an accurate passer are 2 different things. It's all the other throws - the deep post, the digs, the outs, all made in tight spaces. Darrell Lamonica threw a great deep ball for the Raiders, so did Jeff George, etc., & they flopped miserably as pro qbs. Lots of other things factor in too. Compare it to a pitcher who has good velocity but can't locate, no command. Throwing hard does not make one a good pitcher. He better be able to pitch, have late movement, change speeds, & locate.

We disagree, big deal. Let it play out. And NOT all scouts were impressed with his passing ability. All loved his athleticism & leadership abilities.

Colt McCoy throws a great deep ball. Are you in love with his arm strength?

Old Tiger

10-11-2006, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by g$$
Throwing the deep ball & being an accurate passer are 2 different things. It's all the other throws - the deep post, the digs, the outs, all made in tight spaces. Darrell Lamonica threw a great deep ball for the Raiders, so did Jeff George, etc., & they flopped miserably as pro qbs. Lots of other things factor in too. Compare it to a pitcher who has good velocity but can't locate, no command. Throwing hard does not make one a good pitcher. He better be able to pitch, have late movement, change speeds, & locate.

We disagree, big deal. Let it play out. And NOT all scouts were impressed with his passing ability. All loved his athleticism & leadership abilities.

Colt McCoy throws a great deep ball. Are you in love with his arm strength? You show a lack of knowledge in football. Throwing the deep ball and being accurate are not two different things. Anyone can throw a deep ball but to put it on the spot where it needs to be comes with accuracy. See the post above yours.

Colt can make all of the throws too.

g$$

10-11-2006, 04:53 PM

I don't know football? I just said there is a distinct difference between a big arm & accuracy. What don't you understand? Give me a break. Maybe you don't know football.

I never said he would flop. I think he will be a GOOD but not great pro qb.

Funny how after the Ohio St. game many Horns were questioning Colt's arm strength & ability to make all throws. Now after beating a few mediocre teams, he is the next great thing. Time will tell on that too. Rick McIvor had a great arm at Texas, but that is all he had. It takes more than that fella. VY's biggest hurdle may be the mental side of the game. Time will tell, but right now he looks very raw & not ready for the complexity of NFL defenses.

Old Tiger

10-11-2006, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by g$$
I don't know football? I just said there is a distinct difference between a big arm & accuracy. What don't you understand? Give me a break. Maybe you don't know football.

I never said he would flop. I think he will be a GOOD but not great pro qb.

Funny how after the Ohio St. game many Horns were questioning Colt's arm strength & ability to make all throws. Now after beating a few mediocre teams, he is the next great thing. Time will tell on that too. Rick McIvor had a great arm at Texas, but that is all he had. It takes more than that fella. VY's biggest hurdle may be the mental side of the game. Time will tell, but right now he looks very raw & not ready for the complexity of NFL defenses. It pretains to the fact that I said Vince had arm strenght and accuracy.

He will be great with work ethic and character.

I was not one of those people who questioned Colt after the Ohio State game. I thought he did very well. Nice one trying to play that card.

g$$

10-11-2006, 05:00 PM

Jeff Blake has been regarded for years as throwing a great deep ball. Is he a good NFL qb? He got benched by the lowly Raiders & has played for a bunch of teams, with little success.

Throwing a good deep ball does NOT make you an accurate passer on all the tough intermediate throws in tight spaces. Ken Stabler had a mediocre arm, but he was very accurate in the 15-25 yd. range. Maybe you should study the game more.

One does not always equal the other. Again, that is like saying a guy who throws hard is a good pitcher. Does not always work that way. He better have more in his arsenal.

Old Tiger

10-11-2006, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by Tiger WR
It pretains to the fact that I said Vince had arm strenght and accuracy.

;)

g$$

10-11-2006, 05:06 PM

In a general sense, you could not be more wrong. Accuracy & arm strength are totally different (obviously you want both). You believe in VY, good for you. I have questions about his mental acumen & ability to put the ball in tight spots. Time will tell.

Athletic ability at that level will only take you so far. I was referring to Horn fans in general after the Ohio St. game. Read their message boards. Time will tell on McCoy too. 6 games does not make a career.

Old Tiger

10-11-2006, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by g$$
In a general sense, you could not be more wrong. Accuracy & arm strength are totally different (obviously you want both). You believe in VY, good for you. I have questions about his mental acumen & ability to put the ball in tight spots. Time will tell.

Athletic ability at that level will only take you so far. I was referring to Horn fans in general after the Ohio St. game. Read their message boards. Time will tell on McCoy too. 6 games does not make a career. I never said they were the same they are just not two totally different things. Accuracy on the deep ball is what most NFL scouts look for. To throw the deep ball well you have to place the ball well and to do that accuracy is needed.

g$$

10-11-2006, 05:17 PM

You are backtracking. Deep ball accuracy & making the intermediate throws in tight spaces are 2 different things. I have given you examples (arm strength related) both in football & baseball.

I played college baseball. I could catch up to most anyone with good gas. What separates hitters is those who can hit the guys w/ good breaking stuff. The same thing that separates pitchers who only throw hard. They either wash out or become situational relief guys. MLB hitters will catch up with heat at some point. You better have more in your bag.

VY is a heck of an athlete. Now let's see if he can become an NFL qb against the best defenders in the world.

Old Tiger

10-11-2006, 05:18 PM

It backs up what I originally posted?

When throwing the Dig route you don't want the ball to get there slow you need arm strength and the accuracy to place it between the defenders. If the ball doesn't get there quick enough it will be picked off by the defenders breaking on the pass.

g$$

10-11-2006, 05:22 PM

Pro scouts look for guys who can make ALL the throws.

That is why a head case like Ryan Leaf went so high in the draft. And the same reason Tom Brady lasted until the 6th round. Brady makes up for it with his brain, & he has done quite well.

Time will tell on VY. Right now he is not ready for what's being thrown at him. His team is also not good either.

Old Tiger

10-11-2006, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by g$$
Pro scouts look for guys who can make ALL the throws.

That is why a head case like Ryan Leaf went so high in the draft. And the same reason Tom Brady lasted until the 6th round. Brady makes up for it with his brain, & he has done quite well.

Time will tell on VY. Right now he is not ready for what's being thrown at him. His team is also not good either. Exactly! Thank you and in his Draft Prospect Profile provided by the NFL it stated he can make all the throws. Stated Here;

accurate throws all over the field

All over the field means the deep ball too. To throw the deep ball you have to have arm stregth and accuracy.

Ken Dorsey is a perfect example. He was accurate but did not have arm stregth and never made it in the league.

g$$

10-11-2006, 05:28 PM

Exactly. And that is the question you are finally comprehending - can VY put the ball in tight spots on intermediate routes against NFL defenders? The deep ball is NOT a question. Time will tell. But right now he has not shown the ability to do that. Have you seen him in the NFL? Poor guy has been thrust into starting by owner Bud Adams to sell tickets. Look at his passer rating so far.

I know the game too, ok. We are beating a dead horse.

Time will tell...

Old Tiger

10-11-2006, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by g$$
Exactly. And that is the question you are finally comprehending - can VY put the ball in tight spots on intermediate routes against NFL defenders? The deep ball is NOT a question. Time will tell. But right now he has not shown the ability to do that. Have you seen him in the NFL? Poor guy has been thrust into starting by owner Bud Adams to sell tickets. Look at his passer rating so far.

I know the game too, ok. We are beating a dead horse.

Time will tell... I think we're both right though, honestly. lol

g$$

10-11-2006, 05:37 PM

Dorsey is a poor example. He had a BELOW avg. arm at best. The deep ball is not where pro qbs make their living. It's all the other throws in the course of a game.

Guys with avg. arm strength make up for it with accuracy & smarts. But you have to have a good enough arm to make the necessary throws or you're gone.

Tom Brady, Steve Young, Ken Stabler, Joe Montana - none had cannons for arms. All won Super Bowls.

Good conversation. Time will tell if VY has the accuracy & mental acumen to succeed.

Old Tiger

10-11-2006, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by g$$
Dorsey is a poor example. He had a BELOW avg. arm at best. The deep ball is not where pro qbs make their living. It's all the other throws in the course of a game.

Guys with avg. arm strength make up for it with accuracy & smarts. But you have to have a good enough arm to make the necessary throws or you're gone.

Tom Brady, Steve Young, Ken Stabler, Joe Montana - none had cannons for arms. All won Super Bowls.

Good conversation. Time will tell if VY has the accuracy & mental acumen to succeed. I never said anything about his arm. His accuracy was what people liked about him. :D

I got a psychology class to go to fun debating with you. We must do it again.

Thanks for helping the cause, btw ;) :D

wedo

10-11-2006, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by g$$
If the guy above really thinks VY has the arm of Cutler & the accuracy of Leinart, with the raw speed of Vick then I sure hope you're never a coach. Cutler has a cannon & Vanderbilt smarts, Leinart is very accurate & has played in a pro style offense, & Vick is sick fast with quickness too (not a passer).

VY is a strong runner with unusual quickness & deception for a man his size. Watch the USC game again & count how many passes were thrown in the air more than 15 yds. downfield. I believe it is around 6 for the game (in the air, not run after catch). Now, give him credit for being a physical freak & an exceptional leader. He also is behind the learning curve after coming from the shotgun, zone read offense suited to him in college. That will NEVER work in the NFL more than a few plays.

But, all qbs need 3 yrs. in the pros before we can accurately judge them & the team around them. Time will tell on VY's progress at the highest level. But please don't put studs like both Mannings, Palmer, or Aikman in the same sentence as a raw VY. That is not fair or accurate.

WVU will not be jumped if they run the table. If they do that, they will have beaten more quality teams than Texas on the year. Compare both schedules & strength of teams. And the name Texas with 1 loss will not enable them to jump undefeated WVU or Louisville, depending on who wins. That's reality.

**A better comparison for VY would be to Randall Cunningham. Similar build & elusive, but Cunningham had a very strong arm. And as all running qbs do, he got hurt a lot in the NFL.

How in the world do you think that WV has played a better schedule!!! East Caolina, Marshall, maryland come on!! they haven't even played a ranked team yet!! Thats crazy!! yeah i know Texas played Rice and SHSU!! But ohio state, OU , Nebraska are all ranked and if texas wins out they will play Mizzou and they are ranked!!! A one loss team will jump WV!!

g$$

10-11-2006, 06:26 PM

Because #5 WVU is undefeated & still has to play @ #7 Louisville & home for #24 Rutgers. Nebraska is ranked (#21/20) & Mizzou is currently #19/21. But there is lots of season left. Mizzou running the table would greatly help Texas's strength of schedule in a Big 12 title game.

But, if all holds the same, & WVU beats the #7 team on the road, that trumps a 1 loss Texas team. Who could Texas claim as a better win than that? WVU also won the Sugar Bowl last year so their program is riding high.

Louisville & WVU are the wild cards, depending on who wins Nov. 2nd. Blame the Big 12 for being down, & 1 loss teams need help to move back up. Hope that helps. The Big East is top heavy just like our Big 12. Bad teams in both leagues.

WestTXLonghorn

10-11-2006, 06:28 PM

Originally posted by wedo
How in the world do you think that WV has played a better schedule!!! East Caolina, Marshall, maryland come on!! they haven't even played a ranked team yet!! Thats crazy!! yeah i know Texas played Rice and SHSU!! But ohio state, OU , Nebraska are all ranked and if texas wins out they will play Mizzou and they are ranked!!! A one loss team will jump WV!!

g$$ hasn't even bothered to look at their schedule. That's why he thinks they're better. All he knows is that he's picking against the Horns.

If West Virginia wins out then they can go to the title game and lose. I doubt they'll win out tho. If you can't handle a pathetic East Carolina team then I have doubts about whether you'll be able to put away teams like Louisville and whoever you'd meet in the BCS.

g$$

10-11-2006, 06:33 PM

I've got their schedule right in front of me partner. Now what? I stated fact & it is not a bias against Texas. Now what sparky?

Refute what I said...

And WVU & Louisville are in the same conference. Called the Big East ok?

g$$

10-11-2006, 06:37 PM

I've also watched both teams play. WVU has speed to burn, & Louisville is getting qb Brohm back this week (lost RB Bush for year). Both are good teams. Saying that about East Carolina is just stupid - how about Ok State the past 2 years for your beloved Horns? Games like that happen, & you find a way to win & get out alive.

Don't single me out boy - I posted fact & you as usual came with garbage. Grow up boy.

wedo

10-11-2006, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by g$$
I've got their schedule right in front of me partner. Now what? I stated fact & it is not a bias against Texas. Now what sparky?

Refute what I said...

WV Sucks and so does M&A!!!! now what bud??

wedo

10-11-2006, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by g$$
I've also watched both teams play. WVU has speed to burn, & Louisville is getting qb Brohm back this week (lost RB Bush for year). Both are good teams. Saying that about East Carolina is just stupid - how about Ok State the past 2 years for your beloved Horns? Games like that happen, & you find a way to win & get out alive.

Don't single me out boy - I posted fact & you as usual came with garbage. Grow up boy.

And what were the final scores of those games!! In the second half of both Texas blew them out!!! WV only beat EC by like 10 or somthing like that!!!

g$$

10-11-2006, 06:40 PM

Juvenile, that's what. How come Horn fans have trouble giving other teams credit? Should have beaten Ohio St. so quit whining. Want some cheese with that "whine"?

Your futile attempt at A&M humor is not funny either. It makes you look even dumber. And you proved that with your lack of knowledge of other teams around the country.

This just in...more teams than just Texas play football!

g$$

10-11-2006, 06:44 PM

Doesn't matter, but it was 27-10 WVU over East Carolina. Just win right? That's what y'all said when you beat a bad Ok State team after trailing at half both years. Let the season play out.

But if WVU or Louisville is undefeated, slim chance for Texas as a 1 loss team.

NC= Ohio St. vs. WVU
(w/ Florida, USC, Michigan, & Louisville all losing 1 game)

Old Tiger

10-11-2006, 07:26 PM

Originally posted by g$$
Juvenile, that's what. How come Horn fans have trouble giving other teams credit? Should have beaten Ohio St. so quit whining. Want some cheese with that "whine"?

I give other teams credit so please do not sterotype me you sheep raping Aggie. I would like some cheese please, make it muenster and give me a ritz cracker and i'll be set :D

WestTXLonghorn

10-11-2006, 07:42 PM

g$$ is like most Aggsy fans at this point. He's teetering on the edge of sanity and another loss is going to send him over the deep end.

Yes, g$$. . .we know that more teams other than Texas play football. How do we know this? Texas beats them. Now please. . .go off on another rant about Vince or something so we can have another good laugh at your expense.

On another, more interesting note. . .I got to see Vince's TV show on BET. Really cool stuff. Not only is he a freak on the football field, he's got a lot of character as well.

fireman1

10-12-2006, 01:04 PM

its very possible that Texas can get back to the NC just need a couple of teams to lose this weekend

raider red 2000

10-12-2006, 02:07 PM

as most of yall know....i am not an aggie fan or a ut fan. i wihs they both lost every week....but that is besides the point.

i think that it is stupid to get into a debate about whose sheep are better looking and about whose cow just got turned in to cheap hot dogs.

anyways. texas has a good chance to win out and goto a BCS game. they will not ahve another chance at OSU or against Mich if Mich beats OSU.

texas will still get paid for being in a bcs bowl game....but the national championship hopes are gone. had VY not jumped ship for teh cash in the NFL then the talk would be much different.

anyways horns fans sorry but that is my opinon and i think it is probably the way that it plays out.

also even if all of the above teams lose a game...i think that an SEC team gets in with 1 loss before ut.

GO TECH...but please dont throw 2 TD passes to the defense :(

BTEXDAD

10-12-2006, 02:10 PM

g$$

10-12-2006, 02:35 PM

BTEXDAD: I have repeatedly said VY has a strong arm & the deep ball is not a question. However, making the intermediate throws in tight spaces & putting the ball on the receiver is where I have questions. In a route progression, a qb looks at 3 levels: deep, intermediate, & short (depending on play, down & distance, etc.). You can assign #s as you wish, but I would say <15=short, 15-25=intermediate, & >25=deep. Throwing a good deep ball & being an accurate passer are different things. Many ex. of this, like Vick, George, Blake, Lamonica, etc. Much like a baseball pitcher who has good velocity & cannot locate his pitches. We've all known guys with good arms who aren't pitchers. You better have more in your bag.

VY may well turn out to be the best qb since sliced bread. Right now, I have questions on his mental acumen & ability to read defenses, & the accuracy of his arm. Arm strength is not in question. He's a big, strong guy who can throw it 70 yds. in the air. In the USC game, count how many throws were made in the air at 15 yds. or more with accuracy. Can he drop back & deliver the ball on target & on time for deep outs, posts, digs, stops, etc. That is the big question for me. He may very well prove me wrong, & more power to him. I root for all guys from the state of Texas to do well. I have nothing but respect for VY, but I am entitled to an opinion.

Tiger WR: I thought you were better than a sheep comment. I have never owned a sheep in my life. If I wanted to stoop to your level, I would break out tree-hugging/hippie/gay/liberal themes, but I will refrain because that is juvenile & not representative of everyone at Texas. Why don't you show some maturity & do the same?

West TX: another loss by Fran only gets us one step closer to a new coach. I would love Chizik, Pellini, or others to be in maroon SOON. You still never refuted the WVU argument because you have nothing. If they win out, it trumps anything Texas has done this season. Deal with it. Texas still goes to a BCS Bowl.

Objectivity people, that's all.

Old Tiger

10-12-2006, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by BTEXDAD
[QUOTE]Exactly. And that is the question you are finally comprehending - can VY put the ball in tight spots on intermediate routes against NFL defenders? The deep ball is NOT a question. [QUOTE]

You lost me, g$$. In one quote of yours which I didn't post, you said intermediate routes were 15-20 yards and a QB had to throw them to be successful in pros.
In first quote above you're saying VY doesn't have strong arm and that in USC game he threw very few over 15 yards. I assume
that would be intermediate routes(?)
In second quote above you say that there's question as to whether he can throw intermediate balls but the deep ball is NOT a question. Does that mean he has strong arm? I'm confused. Are you talking about when I owned him on this topic :D

g$$

10-12-2006, 02:40 PM

You're the same guy who admitted (above) that we both had good points before you ran off to Psychology Class. Better cut your losses as you NEVER owned anything.

Old Tiger

10-12-2006, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by g$$
You're the same guy who admitted (above) that we both had good points before you ran off to Psychology Class. Better cut your losses as you NEVER owned anything. I still owned you :D

Thanks for helping the cause :thumbsup:

g$$

10-12-2006, 02:44 PM

The only thing you own is a lack of football knowledge. You & West TX must study together. It shows everytime you post.

Like I said, time will tell on VY & that's fair. Prove it VY.

KTJ

10-12-2006, 02:47 PM

I still think Fran will be back next year.

Chizik to Michigan State, North Carolina, staying at Texas (which we've heard is a very good possibility) or going to the NFL.

Old Tiger

10-12-2006, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by g$$
The only thing you own is a lack of football knowledge. You & West TX must study together. It shows everytime you post.

Like I said, time will tell on VY & that's fair. Prove it VY. Dude I could be a scout and recruiting analyst. My football knowledge and the breakdown of positions is good.

Old Tiger

10-12-2006, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by KTJ
I still think Fran will be back next year.

Chizik to Michigan State, North Carolina, staying at Texas (which we've heard is a very good possibility) or going to the NFL. I hope he stays. He is getting very good pay for being an assistant but I know his dream is to become a head coach. Good luck to him he is a great coach!

g$$

10-12-2006, 02:51 PM

How about Chizik to LSU if they lose a couple more games, which is possible? The Cajuns are not happy with Les Miles. Talent evaluators say LSU has the most talent in the nation. I listened to one this morning talking about it. Said they have many 1st day draft picks, yet the team is not showing it. ??

g$$

10-12-2006, 02:53 PM

Tiger WR: better stick to your day job in Psychology Class!

Just kidding, let it go, but I am disappointed in your sheep comment. Guess I had you pegged wrong. Oh well.

big daddy russ

10-12-2006, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by KTJ
I still think Fran will be back next year.

Chizik to Michigan State, North Carolina, staying at Texas (which we've heard is a very good possibility) or going to the NFL.
We miss him too :(, but we got lucky with Muschamp. I still think he gets a shot at Mississippi State, Texas A&M (pending Fran's season and whether or not some deep-pocketed alums step up to the plate), Miami or 'Bama. 'Bama fans aren't happy with slightly-better-than-average seasons and Chizik could ressurrect that program quickly.

As much as the NFL pays, I still believe that he's more of a college guy. He was tempted by Jax, but chose to take pretty much the same position at UT. I think his love for the college game, the headaches that come with an NFL job, and a head coaching shot keeps him within the ranks of the NCAA.

g$$

10-12-2006, 03:00 PM

See, RUSS comes thru with an objective, well-thought out post. No hate. Good stuff. Need more of them!

I see Chizik as a college HC next year, location TBD.

mwynn05

10-12-2006, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by WestTXLonghorn
Texas is going to go 11-1 and they're having a "down year."

Yep, the tide has turned my friends.:D

EDIT: Here's a trivia question for all of you.

Which is the only team in college football has won 10 games each of the past five season?

Hint: They start with Long and end with horns.;) are you illiterate i said they are going to lose again

WestTXLonghorn

10-12-2006, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by mwynn05
are you illiterate i said they are going to lose again

Yeah, that must be it. I'm illiterate. :rolleyes:

WestTXLonghorn

10-12-2006, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by KTJ
I still think Fran will be back next year.

Chizik to Michigan State, North Carolina, staying at Texas (which we've heard is a very good possibility) or going to the NFL.

Fran will be around FOR AT LEAST another year. The ATM alums are too dumb to get rid of him sooner than that.

g$$: IF. . .and that's a HUGE IF. . .West Virginia wins out, then no. . .they are NOT a lock to jump Texas. At best one of their quality wins has 1 loss and the other has 2, assuming the Scarlet Knights and the Cardinals win the rest of their games. The rest of their schedule stinks so bad that the BCS is going to murder them in the computer portion of the polls. I've seen WVU as low as in the mid-teens with preliminary rankings.

We all know how much of a joke Georgia is and so I don't think the voters are going to give a whole lot of credence to a 1 point win over the Bulldogs last year, especially considering how crappy the ratings were for that game. So, I really don't see WVU getting into the title game. They can definitely get into a BCS game. . .heck, it might even be against us, but the title game is a stretch.

I'm not sure they even win out tho. Pat White has only thrown the ball 63 times this season and that's been against horrid competition. What happens once they meet a team (like Louisville) that can stop the run? If not for the fact that they don't really deserve to be there, I'd love for my Horns to get the Mountaineers if we didn't reach the title game. Why? We'd kill them. Our run D is insane and their offense wouldn't stand a chance.

Finally, quit blathering on about how you want people to be objective. No one here has said Texas is a lock for the title game. People have been VERY objective while also being optomistic about the Horns chances. Just like you can be optomistic that the Ags will win another game and make it to a bowl.;)

wedo

10-12-2006, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by g$$
Juvenile, that's what. How come Horn fans have trouble giving other teams credit? Should have beaten Ohio St. so quit whining. Want some cheese with that "whine"?

Your futile attempt at A&M humor is not funny either. It makes you look even dumber. And you proved that with your lack of knowledge of other teams around the country.

This just in...more teams than just Texas play football!

Why wasn't it funny?? Aggies call Texas tu instead of ut!! Its the same thing, i got tired of hearing that so i started calling A&M M&A

g$$

10-12-2006, 05:43 PM

1. You're no one's dad (sure not mine), you're a kid, so pipe down about what you "want" me to do. I made a simple request & not an order about objectivity. Big difference. Heck, I "want" you to grow up, but I know better.

2. Every A&M loss brings us one step closer to a new coach. So leave me out of that optimistic (spelled correctly) equation. 7-5 then crappy bowl, hopefully big alums buy him out. I've stayed true to that all along.

3. WVU & Louisville will both be undefeated when they play Nov. 2nd, so your 1 loss idea holds no water. If WVU wins that game, they will have beaten a Top 10 on the road. Louisville would slide, not WVU. That trumps anything Texas will have done. Name 1 Top 10 team Texas will have beaten this year, home or away? Neb nor Mizzou will be Top 10 even if they continue to win (plus they play each other).

4. Last year's tv ratings hold no credence with the BCS #s. That is tv stuff, not computers & the 2 major polls. You're reaching there big-time. If that was the case, USC & LSU would have played a few years ago (not OU after loss to K State).

5. Your act is tired. Football, nor athletics in general, was invented in Austin, TX. Other teams play good ball. Take off your homer, burnt-orange tinted shades & watch them. That would be refreshing.

big daddy russ

10-12-2006, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by WestTXLonghorn
g$$: IF. . .and that's a HUGE IF. . .West Virginia wins out, then no. . .they are NOT a lock to jump Texas. At best one of their quality wins has 1 loss and the other has 2, assuming the Scarlet Knights and the Cardinals win the rest of their games. The rest of their schedule stinks so bad that the BCS is going to murder them in the computer portion of the polls. I've seen WVU as low as in the mid-teens with preliminary rankings.

We all know how much of a joke Georgia is and so I don't think the voters are going to give a whole lot of credence to a 1 point win over the Bulldogs last year, especially considering how crappy the ratings were for that game. So, I really don't see WVU getting into the title game. They can definitely get into a BCS game. . .heck, it might even be against us, but the title game is a stretch.
They may not be a lock, but why wouldn't an undefeated jump a one-loss team? It happened two years ago, remember? Week 13, Wisconsin loses. Previously-fifth-ranked Cal slides up to four. Meanwhile, Utah jumps up over a one-loss Texas squad.

Utah's "signature win" was over a highly-overrated and unranked Texas A&M squad during week one. UT, meanwhile, had wins over four ranked teams... including Mizzou, Tech, Okie State and A&M.

I know that most people on this board think that West Virginia's vastly overrated, but you have to remember that most voters don't feel the same way. IF (big if) both teams win out, UT has a 1% chance of realistically keeping WVU out of the NC.

BTW, strength of schedule accounts for less than 5% of the BCS formula since they switched it up in 2005. The only part of the formula that takes SOS into account are the computer rankings, and some of the computer polls don't even use SOS. I know Massey doesn't, can't remember who else. For others, it's only a small part of their equation.

When you take into account the fact that most of these polls use the AP, USA Today, and several other voter polls as huge factors in their polls, those voters become well over 80% of the total equation.

If you think they're going to leave out an undefeated team from a BCS conference WITH a signature win (and yes, if WVU wins at Papa John's the voters will consider Louisville a signature win) in favor of a one-loss Longhorn squad that doesn't have any signature wins, get ready for a heartbreak.

g$$

10-12-2006, 05:49 PM

wedo: still juvenile & I have not used that term to describe Texas. Both are fine schools. Did you even go there or just bought a t-shirt? I'm guessing t-shirt & like to use the word "we" about the Horns.

big daddy russ

10-12-2006, 05:51 PM

Oh, and one more thing... Georgia had an AMAZING team last year, one that took Auburn the distance with a hobbled stud QB. Don't mistake this year's Bulldogs for the UGA teams the past four years. They were a top ten-caliber team last year that played SEVEN top 20 teams and beat four of them, including a then-third-ranked LSU.

Yeah, they were that good last year. WVU just had a fast, athletic team that went blow for blow with Shockley and those WR's.

g$$

10-12-2006, 05:52 PM

Well-stated Russ, & right on point. Get ready for a heartbreak Horns. BCS yes, jump undefeated WVU no.

KTJ

10-12-2006, 09:23 PM

Originally posted by g$$
Well-stated Russ, & right on point. Get ready for a heartbreak Horns. BCS yes, jump undefeated WVU no.

How is it a heartbreaker? Are we expected to make the NC game? Should we be there?

How would making it to a 3rd straight BCS bowl game be a heartbraker?

WestTXLonghorn

10-12-2006, 09:45 PM

Originally posted by g$$
1. You're no one's dad (sure not mine), you're a kid, so pipe down about what you "want" me to do. I made a simple request & not an order about objectivity. Big difference. Heck, I "want" you to grow up, but I know better.

2. Every A&M loss brings us one step closer to a new coach. So leave me out of that optimistic (spelled correctly) equation. 7-5 then crappy bowl, hopefully big alums buy him out. I've stayed true to that all along.

3. WVU & Louisville will both be undefeated when they play Nov. 2nd, so your 1 loss idea holds no water. If WVU wins that game, they will have beaten a Top 10 on the road. Louisville would slide, not WVU. That trumps anything Texas will have done. Name 1 Top 10 team Texas will have beaten this year, home or away? Neb nor Mizzou will be Top 10 even if they continue to win (plus they play each other).

4. Last year's tv ratings hold no credence with the BCS #s. That is tv stuff, not computers & the 2 major polls. You're reaching there big-time. If that was the case, USC & LSU would have played a few years ago (not OU after loss to K State).

5. Your act is tired. Football, nor athletics in general, was invented in Austin, TX. Other teams play good ball. Take off your homer, burnt-orange tinted shades & watch them. That would be refreshing.

1. You're an old man who acts like a kid by getting his rocks off on trying to flame Longhorn fans on a message board. Congrats.

2. 7-5 and a crappy bowl because of 2 Louisiana high schools and 2 service acadamies on your resume. Last time ATM had a winning season? 2004. Last time they won a bowl game? I couldn't find it, it was so long ago. Heck, even ATM is embarrassed so they don't have the records posted on their website!

http://www.aggieathletics.com/index2.php?SID=MFB&pageID=1402

3. You say that WVU will be undefeated with such certainty like you're Nostradamus or something. How do we know this? West Virginia got all they could handle from East freaking Carolina! That game was 17-10 deep into the 4th quarter so you can't even really claim it was a first half fluke, etc. . .and please, don't pull out some nonsense about Texas vs. Okie Lite. We're talking about West Virginia here, not the Longhorns you obsessive freak.

Also, the BCS has been known to do some absolutely INSANE things in its short tenure as the measuring stick for college football. However, you seem to act like things are written in stone and that you understand the system inside and out. Why can't a Texas team with a loss to the consensus #1 be ahead of a WVU team that's undefeated. Crazier things have happened.

You're also doing a pretty big disservice to Nebraska and Mizzou. Why couldn't either of those teams crack the Top 10 if they win out? Both of them probably won't since they play each other and they'll play the Longhorns (Mizzou only if they beat Nebraska and win the Big 12 north) but it's definitely possible one of them will. Mizzou is already ranked 19th! Surely 9 teams above them will lose before seasons end and if they were to roll through their schedule they'd EASILY be in the Top 10 going into the Big 12 title game. Personally I don't think they've shown much but they're getting a lot of pub from the sports media.

4. Last year's TV ratings DO hold power over this year. Why? Because the BCS equation is 2/3s. . .that's a huge majority in case you didn't know. . .reliant on the HUMAN polls. I'm not claiming to know the mind of all the pollsters like you seem to, but it sure does seem at least plausible that the pollsters would rather see the defending champs ahead of a Big Least (in competition AND in ratings) team. I'm not even saying it would be fair. . .I'm just being "objective" and saying it would be possible.

5. Please, oh great wise one. . .tell me what my "act" happens to be. I haven't said one thing outrageous or homerific in this entire thread. At best I've said that Texas has an outside shot at the title game and is probably a lock for a BCS game. . .which any sports analyst/player/coach would tell you is perfectly reasonable.

Maybe you should stop trying to find the speck in my eye and worry about the plank in your own! Every college thread you participate in devolves into you hating on Texas, Vince Young, and accusing Texas fans of being these crazy insane idiots that don't understand anything about sports because we're all such HUGE homers. It's a tired and old argument. No one here thinks that the Horns are the be all and end all of the college football world or the sports world in general. Well, maybe Phil. . .but the rest of us, no. We aren't afraid to admit that our teams have been exceptional lately and have the great likelihood of continuing to be successful. We won a freaking national championship last year in football, why wouldn't we be optimistic (better?) about our team this season? In fact, I've been surprised at how subdued Texas fans have been. I can only imagine how rabid Aggsy fans would be if they actually won a game over Tech, Texas, or Oklahoma or actually won a bowl game. Look how crazy they went over Stephen McGee leading his team to a double-digit loss to Texas last year! Oklahoma fans have lost only 2 straight to Texas in the RRS (I'm NOT calling it the RRRivalry. Its shootout damnit!) and they're already screaming about leaving the Big 12!

My fellow Longhorn fans and I have been giving PLENTY of props to other college football teams. Ohio State whipped us on our own field and they look like the real deal. If Florida wins out with their schedule then they deserve to have a shot at some NFL teams. However, I think that most sports fans, experts, etc. agree that there is no clear cut #2 team this season. So guess what? That means that the defending champs are still in the mix even with 1 loss. I know this makes your blood boil, but get over it.

Please, you don't have to admit it to everyone here, but at least admit it to yourself that the real reason you go around shouting and foaming at the mouth about homer Longhorn fans is because of your own team's failures. I mean, you're telling me that if the Ags won a college football championship a year prior that you wouldn't be optimistic about them the next year, even with a loss to the #1 team in the land? ATM has a lot of GREAT qualities. However, owning Texas in athletics is not one of them. So, Texas fans are well within their bounds to point out the Ags failures on the field and also to point out the failures of other Big 12 teams on the football field as well. The Big 12 stinking as a whole hurts Texas who is actually striving for excellence on the playing field. We WANT ATM to get better because it'll make the conference better and shine a better light on the kids in our state, part of the country, etc. as a whole. Texas is the class of the Big 12 and the part of the elite in the nation right now. No one is suggesting that it is going to stay that way forever. College football is a cyclical thing. However, we're enjoying our stay on top of the mountain and we think our team's coaches and administrators have put our team in a position to compete for the top spot for a long time to come. That isn't being a homer or whatever other nonsense you've called it. That's supporting your team and applauding them on their hard work.

So, enough already. Find a new shtick or at least quit on this old one please.

Old Tiger

10-12-2006, 09:54 PM

My well thought opinion about important upcoming games.

Tech has the most upside to upset UT because of their passing game. Texas defense has been supsect against the pass this year but Chizik will have them ready against the Tech offense. The Tech defense will not be able to stop the run and when they play up on the run we will most likely counter with the playaction pass. Mizzou showed that they are also vulnerable against the pass too on defense.

As for Texas A&M, they will be forced into passing situations and I don't think McGee can make all the throws he needs to and especially under the pressure that he will be under. Texas will shut down the A&M run game as they did with Adrian Peterson. Peterson is a combination of Courtney Lewis and Javorskie Lane. He is faster and as strong as Lewis and Lane with elusiveness too. All in all Texas will stop the run and force McGee to win the game with his arm which will not happen.

WestTXLonghorn

10-12-2006, 10:01 PM

Originally posted by Tiger WR
My well thought opinion about important upcoming games.

Tech has the most upside to upset UT because of their passing game. Texas defense has been supsect against the pass this year but Chizik will have them ready against the Tech offense. The Tech defense will not be able to stop the run and when they play up on the run we will most likely counter with the playaction pass. Mizzou showed that they are also vulnerable against the pass too on defense.

As for Texas A&M, they will be forced into passing situations and I don't think McGee can make all the throws he needs to and especially under the pressure that he will be under. Texas will shut down the A&M run game as they did with Adrian Peterson. Peterson is a combination of Courtney Lewis and Javorskie Lane. He is faster and as strong as Lewis and Lane with elusiveness too. All in all Texas will stop the run and force McGee to win the game with his arm which will not happen.

What?!?! You, a Horn fan actually think Texas will be the mighty Red Raiders and Aggies?!?!

HOMER ALERT! HOMER ALERT!

;)

g$$

10-13-2006, 02:30 PM

West TX: was that your PhD dissertation on "why I'm a Longhorn" or a rebuttal to why Texas won't play in the NC game?

If being 10-12 years older than you makes me older & wiser, so be it. Fine by me.

I have given Texas' program & VY kudos at every turn. I just don't like homers or bandwagon fans. My school is down in football & I have acknowledged such & hope for change soon. Other sports are flourishing. Both are great academic schools.

Bet you were one heck of a manager/trainer in your "playing" days. Go get 'em! If you have self-esteem or anger issues that you would like to discuss, then I'm available. It would do you a lot of good. No computer - just us. We'll have cheese & "whine" & work everything out. If not, we'll come to some sort of resolution. Deal?

BTW, it's where teams are ranked when you play them that counts most in the formula. Like beating a Top 10 on the road, etc. I don't know how it will play out - no one does - but I can have an opinion just like anybody else. And, I am very familiar with the formulas, polls, conferences, etc. used to determine BCS rankings. TV ratings do not matter. Remember Pitt vs. Utah Fiesta Bowl?

KTJ (whom I respect): I was quoting the "heartbreaker" line from the previous post. Agreed, no shame in a BCS game ever.

WestTXLonghorn

10-13-2006, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by g$$
West TX: was that your PhD dissertation on "why I'm a Longhorn" or a rebuttal to why Texas won't play in the NC game?

If being 10-12 years older than you makes me older & wiser, so be it. Fine by me.

I have given Texas' program & VY kudos at every turn. I just don't like homers or bandwagon fans. My school is down in football & I have acknowledged such & hope for change soon. Other sports are flourishing. Both are great academic schools.

Bet you were one heck of a manager/trainer in your "playing" days. Go get 'em! If you have self-esteem or anger issues that you would like to discuss, then I'm available. It would do you a lot of good. No computer - just us. We'll have cheese & "whine" & work everything out. If not, we'll come to some sort of resolution. Deal?

BTW, it's where teams are ranked when you play them that counts most in the formula. Like beating a Top 10 on the road, etc. I don't know how it will play out - no one does - but I can have an opinion just like anybody else. And, I am very familiar with the formulas, polls, conferences, etc. used to determine BCS rankings. TV ratings do not matter. Remember Pitt vs. Utah Fiesta Bowl?

KTJ (whom I respect): I was quoting the "heartbreaker" line from the previous post. Agreed, no shame in a BCS game ever.

Seriously, at times you actually sound like you know what the heck you're talking about. . .and then you try calling out someone to fight you on the internet. Before you just did it in PMs to me and now you've actually gone and done it in a public thread. Congrats on finally flipping your lid and showing your true colors to everyone here.

Nice dig at me with the "trainer" remarks tho. That's usually what most people resort to when they know they've totally been owned. Ad hominem attacks and then ask the other person to meet them somewhere to "settle it."

For any mods reading this. . .why haven't you ROMmed this guy yet? Not only has he gone out of his way to pick fights on this message board he's now trying to pick real life fights as well. Insane.