MYTH: Teachers are underpaid....(interesting)

[kaorder1999]

MYTH: Teachers Are Underpaid

May 12, 2006 — Teachers are underpaid. Underpaid makes me ask, under what?

It's true that teachers have an important job instructing children, and many important people say, teachers are underpaid.

Democrats and Republicans applaud that line, but exactly what is "enough?" The average public school teacher makes $45,000 a year. That's $7,000 more than the average wage in America.

Still teachers at union rallies say they're underpaid.

At a 2005 rally, New York City's public advocate Betsy Gotbaum said, "For 20 years, they haven't been paid enough."

But where's the evidence? In a free country when jobs pay too little, people don't apply for them. Yet the opposite is true in many school districts.

This year Boston needed 675 new teachers. They got 2,800 applications — four for every job. In Los Angeles, it was five for every job. In New York, six. Chicago, 12. Kentucky had 11 applications per job, and Missouri, 19.

Still, we keep hearing that teachers don't make enough money.

Also, remember teachers are paid for just nine months of work. They have the summer off. Some work summer school, others relax.

Some teachers take the time off to relax, go to spas. One teacher I talked to said summers give him time to travel.

"If I'm going to be a good Spanish teacher, wouldn't it behoove me to spend some time in Mexico," he said.

It might, but the summer off means when you calculate teachers' hourly wages, you find teachers make more than chemists, physical therapists, psychologists, registered nurses, aircraft mechanics and firefighters.

Teachers demonstrated outside the "20/20" offices because they were mad at me for criticizing their union. They demanded I point out that many teachers work extra hours for no extra pay. OK. But it's also true that when it comes to teaching, most teachers aren't in it for the money. They just want to help the kids.

"It's about the kids," one teacher said. "I'm not a teacher for money, because I'd be a lawyer if I wanted money. I teach because I love kids."

That's right.

[kaorder1999]

just wanted to see what everyone else thinks....

[pirate44]

teachers are overpaid

[Snyder_TigerFan]

$45,000 - maybe not
$28,000 - yes

[PPHSfan]

While I love teachers I must say this.

You knew the job was dangerous and low paying when you decided to go to school to become one. So while I agree that you should be paid as much as the market will allow, I can't in good faith, listen to you complain when you don't make enough money.

[raider red 2000]

i have never had 3 months off.

in the fall i work about 85 hours a week.

in the sping about 60.

am i underpaid??????

i dont think so...if i wanted to make more money i could go find a job that sucks but pays better.

i love my job.....is it hard at times? YES.
Do I wish that I made more? SURE

[pirate44]

everyone asked will say they are underpaid. PPHSfan makes a good point.

[kaorder1999]

Let's say in your job all of a sudden expectations of you continued to rise and you find yourself having to put more and more of your personal time into your job what would you do? Or....let's say that all of a sudden your company tells you "We've decided not to pay you overtime anymore for your extra hours."

Do teachers go into the business knowing they arent getting paid for overtime. Of course they do. But all of a sudden in your own personal time you are asked to go to this Taks training and that Taks training and this Taks training and you have an open house you have to attend twice a month where you dont get home till 9 at night.

Though I have only been in education a short period of time I really do feel for those educators who have been in the business for a while. Their job description has DRASTICALLY changed. Administrators USED to let them do their job and teach young men and woman how to be be productive citizens. Now they have to to that AND make sure they pass the TAKS.

I think it's just natural for people to ask to be compensated for extra dudties.

[pirate44]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
Let's say in your job all of a sudden expectations of you continued to rise and you find yourself having to put more and more of your personal time into your job what would you do? Or....let's say that all of a sudden your company tells you "We've decided not to pay you overtime anymore for your extra hours."

Do teachers go into the business knowing they arent getting paid for overtime. Of course they do. But all of a sudden in your own personal time you are asked to go to this Taks training and that Taks training and this Taks training and you have an open house you have to attend twice a month where you dont get home till 9 at night.

Though I have only been in education a short period of time I really do feel for those educators who have been in the business for a while. Their job description has DRASTICALLY changed. Administrators USED to let them do their job and teach young men and woman how to be be productive citizens. Now they have to to that AND make sure they pass the TAKS.

I think it's just natural for people to ask to be compensated for extra dudties.
any other salaried employee accepts they have to put in extra time without extra pay. thats life.

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by pirate44
any other salaried employee accepts they have to put in extra time without extra pay. thats life.

you make a great point ......BUT

What about the teachers that WERE compensated for extra duties....(bus driving, Saturday Schools, etc....) But then all of a sudden are told.....sorry....not getting paid for those things...

[kaorder1999]

im just trying to get feedback....having class discussions on Inflation and economic changes...

[kaorder1999]

What about the Administrators that are making 70-100k and ARENT having to teach TAKS after school tutorials or ARENT having to drive busses or ARENT having to work 85-90 hours a week?

[KTJ]

I don't think the problem is being underpaid.

I think the problem is that there isn't really much of an increase in pay as you go on in teaching.

[raider red 2000]

our expectations are rising for a few reasons.

1- kids are not taught as much at home.
2- politicians- do not care about public education...or they are just cluless.
3- kids are not as motivated by long term goals...they want instand gratification....microwaves....cell phones....i-pods.....they want their MTV :) right now......scre waiting and working for something.....they want it...and want it now.

how does that change my job?
offer the info. explain why it is important. help the kdis that need help.

[PPHSfan]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
What about the Administrators that are making 70-100k and ARENT having to teach TAKS after school tutorials or ARENT having to drive busses or ARENT having to work 85-90 hours a week?

they chose a better paying career path.

[Snyder_TigerFan]

I think there is WAY to much emphasis given on these stupid tests, and not enough about what they are really needing to learn. But I guess that's another discussion.

[STANG RED]

In all professions there are people at opposite ends of the spectrum of pay. I'm sure some teachers are grossly underpaid, some about right, and I personally know several that are grossly overpaid if they make more than a nickle. This is the main problem I have with unions. Unions create a socialist atmosphere. Over acheivers cant be compensated for their good works that are over and above, and yet the bad ones, that dont even earn what they make, are protected by the union.

[txkmom]

I love what I do, and I knew what I was getting into. But, there are many misconceptions about teacher pay. Remember, administrators' salaries are usually figured into that average pay figure, as are the higher paying, more wealthy school districts that pay over state base. For the state minimum pay, I come to work early and stay late, it's not an 8-3 job. I usually work 7:10 - 4:30 daily, with 30 minutes for lunch. I take work home to grade at night and on weekends. I plan over weekends because there's not time during the day. I sponsor a club after school hours and coach a UIL group after school hours. I deal with a wide range of expectations, emotions, intelligence levels, fears, disabilities and extremes (from parents and students) that many people do not in their professions. If I can find training in my field during the summer, I go to it and I have to pay for it. Last year I worked until the first of June and began again August 2. I came in during the summer to work on my program, my room, and a mural for the school. And I wouldn't do it if I didn't want to. I love my field and most (!) of my kids. I have a good job at a good school with good people. However, the pay is not good. There's just no way around that. That's why we lose so many good teachers and others never enter the field.

[pirate44]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
im just trying to get feedback....having class discussions on Inflation and economic changes...
i think if any aspect of my job changed that i had a problem with, i'd start looking for another job.

[pirate44]

im not sure if its feasible, but i think all profesions should be paid according to merit

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by pirate44
im not sure if its feasible, but i think all profesions should be paid according to merit

Thats the way it should always work, but it's not that way when a union is involved, and never will be.

[zeus63]

Originally posted by pirate44
im not sure if its feasible, but i think all profesions should be paid according to merit

Yet, you say that teachers are overpaid. does this mean that you think the teaching profession has no merit?

[AggieJohn]

Originally posted by pirate44
teachers are overpaid teachers are overpaid in the north, in texas, we are not........ we are second to the bottom, are 6,000 below even the national average....that 45000 is a ludacris number, that's counting in administrators, it has too be

[pirate44]

Originally posted by zeus63
Yet, you say that teachers are overpaid. does this mean that you think the teaching profession has no merit?
just not as much as some teachers think. i think there are very good teachers who should get a nice raise. but to have a blanket increase is crazy. merit base raises seem to be the fairest way. why i posted they are overpaid was just a statement to get attention. i apologize. im sure there are just as many underpaid teachers as there are overpaid. but i do agree with PPHSfan when he said a teacher knows what they are getting into. any intelligent person knows how much they will make before they "sign the papers"

[Aesculus gilmus]

This only works one way, older female-on-younger male, but it appears some of the younger teachers have gone into the profession to specialize in "sexual counseling."

Seriously, I am not going to criticize the pay of teachers, one way or the other. They are having to act as surrogate parents in a lot of cases these days and that should be worth something, even if Junior isn't learning anything.

With most of the formerly good-paying jobs being outsourced to Third World countries, at least this is one payroll in my county that cannot be outsourced and these people in turn spend money in the local economy.

I would imagine that school districts are the leading overall employer in this county, inasmuch as we have seven districts and part of an eighth within our boundaries.

[bleedgreen]

You find me statistics on what the average salary is for a person with a bachelors degree and a masters degree and then let's make comparisons.

[pirate44]

Originally posted by AggieJohn
teachers are overpaid in the north, in texas, we are not........ we are second to the bottom, are 6,000 below even the national average....that 45000 is a ludacris number, that's counting in administrators, it has too be
why would you take a job that is mostly underpaid? i thought teachers were supposed to be smart

[AggieJohn]

Originally posted by pirate44
why would you take a job that is mostly underpaid? i thought teachers were supposed to be smart well we don't get into this profession for the money, and if you do thinking that, your doomed for a life of misery....

teachers really do enjoy getting to see students "get" that thing they don't understand...it's an addictive drug to us

but as far as pay goes.....my wife is getting paid 36000 this year, but after taxes, union dues, health insurance(big joke), and teacher retirement(bigger joke)...she might make 29,000.......it's ludacris...

[AggieJohn]

plus mike, you sit infront of a computer all day, we are "on stage" 8-9 hours a day...i think that that can get more exhausting...

[pirate44]

Originally posted by AggieJohn
well we don't get into this profession for the money,
then why do so many teachers complain about pay?

[pirate44]

Originally posted by AggieJohn
plus mike, you sit infront of a computer all day, we are "on stage" 8-9 hours a day...i think that that can get more exhausting...
actually i dont sit at a computer all day. who told you that?

[AggieJohn]

Originally posted by pirate44
actually i dont sit at a computer all day. who told you that? pphsfan.........in his "state of the Monarchy" speech......

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
The average public school teacher makes $45,000 a year. That's $7,000 more than the average wage in America...

This year Boston needed 675 new teachers. They got 2,800 applications — four for every job. In Los Angeles, it was five for every job. In New York, six. Chicago, 12. Kentucky had 11 applications per job, and Missouri, 19....

It might, but the summer off means when you calculate teachers' hourly wages, you find teachers make more than chemists, physical therapists, psychologists, registered nurses, aircraft mechanics and firefighters...
I don't have a problem with the article, just some of the facts it presents.

1. Maybe they make $7,000 a year more than your average American. But this is a job these teachers invested four years and $50K-$75K to do.

2. If $45K is the national average, then Texas is more underpaid than I ever imagined. One of my best friend's moms teaches at Rockport-Fulton HS. She has her Masters. She's been teaching for more than 30 years. She makes less than $40K.

My girlfriend, on the other hand, is looking at starting off right around the $40K mark and getting her loans paid off. But then again, she's getting certified to teach Special Ed and bilingual classes, and she'll be teaching at a Title I school.

3. Maybe Boston got 2,800 applications, but how many were from the same applicants?

4. They don't make more than RN's. Let's say you factor a teacher's salary over 12 months (an extra two months of work), we'll say that they make roughly $54K a year. I don't know where this guy is getting his stats from, but my mom (who has been an RN since 1976) has made more than that ever since the early-90's. From everything she's told me, the average RN makes roughly $65K a year, depending on where you work, how much overtime you put in, and how much you travel.

Sure, you make around $45K-$50K starting out, but there are so many little ways you can boost your pay. My mom works nights, and if you work so many hours over the period of a month they'll give you bonuses. She gets bonuses all the time.

Travel nurses, especially ones with experience, get paid well into the six figures.



Just pointing out some inconsistencies.

[pirate44]

Originally posted by AggieJohn
pphsfan.........in his "state of the Monarchy" speech......
i must have missed that one. oh well, it doesnt matter cuz im not comparing my pay with teachers. i do think my job is more pressure, more responsibility than teachers, but thats my opinion. im not compllaining about my pay. in fact i like it quite well. :D

[AggieJohn]

Originally posted by pirate44
i must have missed that one. oh well, it doesnt matter cuz im not comparing my pay with teachers. i do think my job is more pressure, more responsibility than teachers, but thats my opinion. im not compllaining about my pay. in fact i like it quite well. :D yeah, i would say YOURS is......but many aren't...there's a lot of crap that teachers have to put up with that most if not all jobs have too, and those things aren't worth the crap that we are getting paid

[pirate44]

Originally posted by AggieJohn
yeah, i would say YOURS is......but many aren't...there's a lot of crap that teachers have to put up with that most if not all jobs have too, and those things aren't worth the crap that we are getting paid
but you didnt take the job for pay. you took it cuz you liked it. im not understanding the kerryism

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by pirate44
but you didnt take the job for pay. you took it cuz you liked it. im not understanding the kerryism ROFL!!! I like my job. I get paid to sit here & talk to you guys and on occassion type up divorce decree, a will, a power of attorney, a brief and other legal documents. I do some filing, answer the phone, take a message or two, talk to you guys, talk to my boss, laugh at his jokes, read a book, do some bookkeeping, talk to you guys and put up with some criminals..oh wait I already mentioned I talked to you guys!!! :D :D

[pirate44]

Originally posted by pirate4state
ROFL!!! I like my job. I get paid to sit here & talk to you guys and on occassion type up divorce decree, a will, a power of attorney, a brief and other legal documents. I do some filing, answer the phone, take a message or two, talk to you guys, talk to my boss, laugh at his jokes, read a book, do some bookkeeping, talk to you guys and put up with some criminals..oh wait I already mentioned I talked to you guys!!! :D :D your job rocks!!!:thumbsup:

[AggieJohn]

Originally posted by pirate44
but you didnt take the job for pay. you took it cuz you liked it. im not understanding the kerryism i'm just saying we know that we aren't getting in this profession for the money, but we do know that it helps.....it sucks that we are the only profession that can't strike in texas

[pirate44]

Originally posted by AggieJohn
i'm just saying we know that we aren't getting in this profession for the money, but we do know that it helps.....it sucks that we are the only profession that can't strike in texas
if you want $$ and be able to work with children, become an engineer, lawyer, business man, etc. and coach little league

[3afan]

Originally posted by raider red 2000
.....
3- kids are not as motivated by long term goals...they want instand gratification....microwaves.....
...

microwaves? eh?

[Black_Magic]

For the amount of education a teacher MUST get inorder to be certified to teach , they are underpaid compared to other profesions who go to school for the same amount of time. Intresting that you have the comment on here about teachers know the profession is not high paying as an argument that teachers are NOT underpaid.:thinking: Police are underpaid for sure.

[pirate44]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
For the amount of education a teacher MUST get inorder to be certified to teach , they are underpaid compared to other profesions who go to school for the same amount of time. Intresting that you have the comment on here about teachers know the profession is not high paying as an argument that teachers are NOT underpaid.:thinking: Police are underpaid for sure.
out of innocent curiosity, which jobs that have the same education, do you think, in comparison, make techers look underpaid?

[AggieJohn]

Originally posted by pirate44
out of innocent curiosity, which jobs that have the same education, do you think, in comparison, make techers look underpaid? i think you are missing his point mike.....an electical engineer from A&M can go into a job making 60000 out of the gate........a Texas grad from McCombs can come out of school and land a job that gets him 70000.......but a teacher comes out of texas and gets paid 22,000 from the state and then turns around and has to have the other potential 14000 come from the district so that they might make 36000 a year....

[pirate44]

Originally posted by AggieJohn
i think you are missing his point mike.....an electical engineer from A&M can go into a job making 60000 out of the gate........a Texas grad from McCombs can come out of school and land a job that gets him 70000.......but a teacher comes out of texas and gets paid 22,000 from the state and then turns around and has to have the other potential 14000 come from the district so that they might make 36000 a year....
my point is, just what i asked. i want to know which jobs that have the same education, does he think, in comparison, make techers look underpaid?

[Underwater Basketweaver]

I would like to put in my .02 cents on this subject, although it may turn into more like 2 dollars.

I've been teaching/athletic training for 8 years now. I just now reached the 40K plateau. That includes my teachers salary, coaching stipend and some other small incentive pays. An 8th year teacher makes a state minimum of 32,500 or so. Take taxes out and your looking at around 26,000 as just a rough estimate. Please name me one other profession that requires a minimum of a bachelor's degree and the ability to pass multiple state exams, (similar to the bar exam, although probably not as difficult) to prove that the four + years (because we all know most don't get a bachelor's in four years) gave us the knowledge to teach the subject we teach, and in the eighth year of experience only makes 32,500 dollars a year. Stop saying we only work nine months a year. We don't get out until June, after the kids get out we still have some work to do for a few days, then we start back at the beginning of August, well before the kids come back. Not to mention the training and things we must take during the summer to maintain our ability to teach. After all is said and done we get about 4 weeks off during the summer. I think it is not uncommon for people to have 4 weeks of vacation per year, on top of holidays and such.

I love my job, I don't complain much about money, because like many have said, I knew what I was getting in to. I love teaching kids, but I didn't know I was going to have to raise 75% of them as well, because less and less parents are doing their jobs at home. Just because I love my job, doesn't mean that I don't have a right to want to do better for myself and my family financially. You wonder why some teachers aren't very good, it's because it's hard to convince some of them to do our job for this pay, so sometimes those who would be the best teachers go elsewhere. That leaves some jobs open for teachers who may not be as good, but will take the low pay. I am a republican at heart, but Bush and Perry are ruining teachers, by blaming the low performance of students on teachers. 2 reasons I believe this: Have you been around a high school classroom lately? Have you seen some of the kids these days? We have some great kids who want to learn everything we can. We also have some kids who have no support at home, no motivation, and could care less if they learn anything. We are lucky the law still makes them come to school.
2nd reason: If you want quality teachers to teach, then pay them a quality amount. Then, let them teach, instead of making them teach kids how to take a stupid test that the state is mandating.

Lastly, we don't have a union in the state of Texas. Texas is a non-union state. We have the organizations that help us lobby with the congress, but we aren't allowed to strike and we can't buck the system or we get fired and lose our license. That's not a union. The only real benefit teacher's have is our retirement, and it's pretty weak by most standards.

[Underwater Basketweaver]

Originally posted by pirate44
my point is, just what i asked. i want to know which jobs that have the same education, does he think, in comparison, make techers look underpaid?

We are at the bottom. Take a look at this link.



Beginning salaries for Bachelor's Degreed Professions (http://www.jobweb.com/SalaryInfo/05_summer.htm)

[MagicMan]

my dad is a cop and he puts in about 12 extra hours every week and doesnt get paid overtime. he also works 12 months every year. cops are underpaid.

[AggieJohn]

Originally posted by MagicMan
my dad is a cop and he puts in about 12 extra hours every week and doesnt get paid overtime. he also works 12 months every year. cops are underpaid. cops and teachers and firefighters are the worst paid for what they do

[Hannibal]

My turn.

I've been teaching/coaching for 7 years now. I have just hit the $40k mark--that is with an increase from the state, increase locally, and picking up another sport to coach. No, I didn't get into it for the money. Would more money be nice? YES. However, those of you who say that teachers don't get paid enough: come sit with me for a week. See what kind of crap that I have to put up with. AND CAN'T DO SQUAT ABOUT MOST OF IT!! Mainly because I deal with teenagers from 14 to 18 years old. Then to top it off, I have parents come in and tell me that I don't know how teach. Or scream curses at me IN FRONT OF MY FAMILY at football and baseball games. Just once I would LOVE to be able to go to your job and scream and cuss at you for your "ineptitude".

A couple of years ago I calculated how much I make an hour, with teaching, practice, games, meetings, laundry, bus driving, and everything else that I do. It came out to $0.57 and hour.

Would I trade it for anything else? Not a chance.

Tell me this: where would you like to be on Friday nights during the fall-- in the stands or on the sidelines??

I have the greatest job in the world-- I teach our country's future.

And if you think you can do better, then get your degree and bring your butts to the sidelines.

[pirate44]

my point. if you like what you do, stay doing it. if you feel you are underpaid, do what millions of people do, get a job you dont like that pays a lot. just quit bellyachin. geez. this isnt a communist society. you are albe to make as much money as you want. luckily my pay is adjusted by merit. if the day comes when my work isnt meritous enough and i dont like my pay, i will move on. i wont cry and complain "poor me, i want to make more money and do what I want!!" whoever keeps saying that firefighter and cops are underpaid, i say RIGHT ON!! ALL the "hero" jobs should get paid big bucks. :clap:

[AggieJohn]

i just know that the only way to get $$$$ in this occupation is going to the administration side

[pirate44]

Originally posted by AggieJohn
i just know that the only way to get $$$$ in this occupation is going to the administration side that, or a hundred other jobs. isnt administrator and a teacher 2 different worlds? if if you like to teach kids, why would someone become an administrator? im ignorant about this and would like some insight.

[Hannibal]

So teachers aren't heroes??? Who taught you to read? Who taught you basic math? Who taught you right and wrong and that following the rules is a good thing? Who taught you the value of an education, even when you were a teenager and knew everything already? I bet that you can recall just about every teacher you ever had.

I wish my pay was based on merit. I had a 96% pass rate (46 out of 48 students)for my English classes last year on the TAKS test. I won district in baseball. I think that I merit what I earn and more.

Your job depends on your performance. Mine depends on how well I can get teenagers to perform in the classroom and on the field.

[pirate44]

Originally posted by Hannibal
So teachers aren't heroes??? Who taught you to read? Who taught you basic math? Who taught you right and wrong and that following the rules is a good thing? Who taught you the value of an education, even when you were a teenager and knew everything already? I bet that you can recall just about every teacher you ever had.

I wish my pay was based on merit. I had a 96% pass rate (46 out of 48 students)for my English classes last year on the TAKS test. I won district in baseball. I think that I merit what I earn and more.

Your job depends on your performance. Mine depends on how well I can get teenagers to perform in the classroom and on the field.
actually i wouldnt lump them into "hero" category. maybe SOME could be. but i would say people whose job it is to put their lives on the line for the safety of others are "HEROS" please dont say techers should be named in that same group.


and like i said before, (to the ones who bellyache, not the ones who dont) quit bellyachin about pay. do something about it.

and i can remember anyone's name who i am in contact for 9 months of a year every day. so what?

[CenTexSports]

First: Texas is not a non-union state. I don't know what you teach but you did not learn that one right. Texas is a Right to Work state. A union can exist in Texas just like any other state Only in a RTW state, you do not have to join.

Second: If any teacher wants to be a plumber or roofer or a factory worker, there are plenty of jobs out there. See how hard and how many hours you work doing that. Ther are no oportunties for stripends or extra duty. There are few air conditioners and the summers get pretty hot in all of these jobs. Moxt of these jobs get little if any paid vacation and do not get the opportunity to have most of the summer off.

Third: Teachers choose to be teachers. If you don;t like it, stop bitching and work somewhere else. I had to quit college after three years but I have worked hard and make a pretty good living at over twice a well paid teacher.

Fourth: Teachers are under appreciated but not under paid. If they were, in this free market economy they would be paid more.


People are paid not by the importance of thier job, the capability of the person in the job or the difficulty of the job. They are paid on the difficulity of obtaining replacements if one is needed. (capability comes in only where you will be paid within the pay scale). Football coaches are a prime example of this. If Mack Brown came to any of our high schools to coach, he could not get what he is making now just because he is Mack Brown. He might get more that the current coach but it would still be within the schools pay scale.

[BlitzemAll]

Originally posted by pirate44
my point. if you like what you do, stay doing it. if you feel you are underpaid, do what millions of people do, get a job you dont like that pays a lot. just quit bellyachin. geez. this isnt a communist society. you are albe to make as much money as you want. luckily my pay is adjusted by merit. if the day comes when my work isnt meritous enough and i dont like my pay, i will move on. i wont cry and complain "poor me, i want to make more money and do what I want!!" whoever keeps saying that firefighter and cops are underpaid, i say RIGHT ON!! ALL the "hero" jobs should get paid big bucks. :clap:

What on earth do you not realize about someone fighting to fix an injustice????? I have been in this business 26 years, and am a 3rd generation teacher. I have seen the changes to the job, and some are good, most are bad. Most of the people griping are trying to tell the idiots who do not undertsand anything, just 1 thing......"we like the job, we like dealing with kids, and would like nothing more than to get paid enough to continue" and I'll tell you something else, one post said we knew the pay, and the dangers when we signed on......sorry, no way......this job was not nearly as dangerous in the 80's as it is now... and teh 3 months off thing, look at a school calendar sometime, ends in june, starts in august...some people might get 8 weeks, no coaches ever do, but classroom teachers might. As for the salary argument, that article on education being last says enough, we train hard, we should be payed well....as for those who do not cut it, fire them...easy enough...but pay those who can do their job

[CenTexSports]

What a poor attitude teachers seem to have. I have NEVER heard more whining than there is from teachers. You need to look at how the REAL world (US economy) works. Y|ou are all paid what the job justifies.

But don't get me wrong on one thing. If you can get more, do so. That is the American economic way. Just quit all of the whininng about what you agree to do for what you get paid. People are VERY TIERD of hearing it.

[pirate44]

Originally posted by BlitzemAll
As for the salary argument, that article on education being last says enough, we train hard, we should be payed well....as for those who do not cut it, fire them...easy enough...but pay those who can do their job
you and i agree on something.

but if your gonna fight an injustice, fight the fact that your pay is not based upon merit. thats where you have an argument. otherwise move to a socialist state. or find a diferent job. sometimes the jobs we all sign up for in the beginning (not just teaching) eventually changes scope and begins to suck. i guess when that happens, instead of finding something else, ill just cry about it.

[MagicMan]

some people are just stuck in places that pay well under the state average for their jobs. someone i know researched her hourly wage and found out people with less qualifications as her were being paid an average of $6 per hour more than her. she brought this up to her bosses and they raised her pay a little but still not as high as it should be. if u want to make some money then just start researching how bacteria can help eliminate pollutants. i hear thats been paying well

[Pudlugger]

Originally posted by Hannibal
My turn.

I've been teaching/coaching for 7 years now. I have just hit the $40k mark--that is with an increase from the state, increase locally, and picking up another sport to coach. No, I didn't get into it for the money. Would more money be nice? YES. However, those of you who say that teachers don't get paid enough: come sit with me for a week. See what kind of crap that I have to put up with. AND CAN'T DO SQUAT ABOUT MOST OF IT!! Mainly because I deal with teenagers from 14 to 18 years old. Then to top it off, I have parents come in and tell me that I don't know how teach. Or scream curses at me IN FRONT OF MY FAMILY at football and baseball games. Just once I would LOVE to be able to go to your job and scream and cuss at you for your "ineptitude".

A couple of years ago I calculated how much I make an hour, with teaching, practice, games, meetings, laundry, bus driving, and everything else that I do. It came out to $0.57 and hour.

Would I trade it for anything else? Not a chance.

Tell me this: where would you like to be on Friday nights during the fall-- in the stands or on the sidelines??

I have the greatest job in the world-- I teach our country's future.

And if you think you can do better, then get your degree and bring your butts to the sidelines.

This guy is a dedicated professional. Bravo! We need teachers like Hannibal.

There is a lot more to a satisfying profession than money. To go to work every day knowing what you do matters and looking forward to it is priceless. Nontheless, you need to be able to take care of your family. The average national salary is way more than what teachers in Texas make, even when adjusted for cost of living.

One big problem I have with public education is the notion that all children deserve a liberal education (see John Dewey's book Democracy and Education). Back in the day when they taught industrial arts many young men and women learned useful trades and skills in school and went on to satisfying jobs. Not anymore. Now you have kids so alienated from the college prep curricula that they are a disruption or distraction in the classroom. On top of that US schools are now completely feminized. 90% of the disciplinary problems are with boys. Girls out achieve boys in every area except math. That is because the teaching models favor polite attentive girls as opposed to squiming ascertive and aggressive boys. Boys tend to question things--why do we need to do this assignment? Girls just go to work on it. This is seen as rebeliousness, an affront to authority. Boys need more hands on activities and space to move around in. Instead of recognizing this, teachers, school psychologists and administrators view this as a pathology needing medication . ADD-HD is a real disorder but it has become way over diagnosed as a way of dealing with the difference in hard wiring of boys and girls in the classroom. Many kids would benefit from industrial arts and would be happier in the long run. A good diesel mechanic can make in excess of $100,000/year. We all know what contractors, electricians and plumbers can make. Throw in IT and communication technologies and the opportunities are unlimited. But no, these poor children should not be deprived of a liberal (not in the political sense, but in the academic sense) education. We have drop outs, disciplinary problems, low performance problems, and criminal activity as a result. Many who go on to college are only doing so "to get a good job". They have little interest or committment to scholarship. I say the Dewey model needs to be thrown out and the system entirely restructured to include career training pathways, more boy friendly environments, and discard the one size fits all college prep liberal education that we now have. A robust liberal education is a good thing, but not for everyone. That is viewed as elitist and undemocratic, but is it right to force this on kids who neither want it or have the where with all to succeed in the academic realm? Offering more choices is not undemocratic, it is what makes our free market economy so vibrant and flexible.

[Black_Magic]

Originally posted by BlitzemAll
What on earth do you not realize about someone fighting to fix an injustice????? I have been in this business 26 years, and am a 3rd generation teacher. I have seen the changes to the job, and some are good, most are bad. Most of the people griping are trying to tell the idiots who do not undertsand anything, just 1 thing......"we like the job, we like dealing with kids, and would like nothing more than to get paid enough to continue" and I'll tell you something else, one post said we knew the pay, and the dangers when we signed on......sorry, no way......this job was not nearly as dangerous in the 80's as it is now... and teh 3 months off thing, look at a school calendar sometime, ends in june, starts in august...some people might get 8 weeks, no coaches ever do, but classroom teachers might. As for the salary argument, that article on education being last says enough, we train hard, we should be payed well....as for those who do not cut it, fire them...easy enough...but pay those who can do their job YOU dont like to hear it .. Im sorry.. NO I take it back, Im not sorry. I dont care if you are tired of hearing it. Its a fact. Some people dont like the truth.. Clearly some of you want your cake and eat it too. You want a TOP NOTCH education for your children and expect and many accept nothing less. But yet you would pay a Plumber or an electritian more money to work on your houses. Yet you say Children are the most valuable thing we have. You want experts but think paying peanuts is acceptable.. Sounds like some have champagne tast on beer budgets.:eek: Dont like hearing the facts then dont listen but they will be disclosed like it or not.:D

[CenTexSports]

WOW. There was not a SINGLE fact in the last post. Strictly opinion. Paying teachers what corporate CEO's make will not make them better teachers just less whinny. What I expect is for teachers to do the job they are paid to do and do it well. The merit should be whether they keep the job or not.

[GOFOR2]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
MYTH: Teachers Are Underpaid

May 12, 2006 — Teachers are underpaid. Underpaid makes me ask, under what?

It's true that teachers have an important job instructing children, and many important people say, teachers are underpaid.

Democrats and Republicans applaud that line, but exactly what is "enough?" The average public school teacher makes $45,000 a year. That's $7,000 more than the average wage in America.

Still teachers at union rallies say they're underpaid.

At a 2005 rally, New York City's public advocate Betsy Gotbaum said, "For 20 years, they haven't been paid enough."

But where's the evidence? In a free country when jobs pay too little, people don't apply for them. Yet the opposite is true in many school districts.

This year Boston needed 675 new teachers. They got 2,800 applications — four for every job. In Los Angeles, it was five for every job. In New York, six. Chicago, 12. Kentucky had 11 applications per job, and Missouri, 19.

Still, we keep hearing that teachers don't make enough money.

Also, remember teachers are paid for just nine months of work. They have the summer off. Some work summer school, others relax.

Some teachers take the time off to relax, go to spas. One teacher I talked to said summers give him time to travel.

"If I'm going to be a good Spanish teacher, wouldn't it behoove me to spend some time in Mexico," he said.

It might, but the summer off means when you calculate teachers' hourly wages, you find teachers make more than chemists, physical therapists, psychologists, registered nurses, aircraft mechanics and firefighters.

Teachers demonstrated outside the "20/20" offices because they were mad at me for criticizing their union. They demanded I point out that many teachers work extra hours for no extra pay. OK. But it's also true that when it comes to teaching, most teachers aren't in it for the money. They just want to help the kids.

"It's about the kids," one teacher said. "I'm not a teacher for money, because I'd be a lawyer if I wanted money. I teach because I love kids."

That's right.

You have no clue what teachers deal with, especially those that do it for all the right reasons. Walk a mile in the shoes of a teacher, and you might understand. I dont hear anyone complaining when auto unions get raises. They dont come out and say they are underpaid, but they always bargain for better wages, working conditions and fringe benefits....isnt that the purpose of any union for that matter?

Teachers not only need to know their content, but they must also play the role of psychologist, nurse/doctor, coach, nutritionist, social behaviorist, disciplinarian, sitter, and in some cases mother/father or figure. Teachers, in many cases, spend more time with other kids than their own. That right there is a big sacrifice. The job for a teacher doesnt stop when the last bell rings, unlike many other jobs.

[GOFOR2]

Originally posted by pirate44
any other salaried employee accepts they have to put in extra time without extra pay. thats life.

You homeschooling your kids?

[BlitzemAll]

Originally posted by pirate44
you and i agree on something.

but if your gonna fight an injustice, fight the fact that your pay is not based upon merit. thats where you have an argument. otherwise move to a socialist state. or find a diferent job. sometimes the jobs we all sign up for in the beginning (not just teaching) eventually changes scope and begins to suck. i guess when that happens, instead of finding something else, ill just cry about it.

it might depend on how much time you have invested in your retirement etc, if I was a 5th year teacher I might consider just moving on...but I have a lot of time effort and blood invested in this and I am willing to fight for what I think is right, but I do not take the "pity me" attitude....I only get fired up when people bash all educators for the whining they hear from a few. And yes, I admit a few whine

[STANG RED]

Take this for what it is worth. I do know personally, of many elementary school teachers that go to WalMart and other places every year, and will spend hundreds of $$, of their own money, just to have enough supplies of crayons, tablets, penciles etc... to make sure even those kids that arent sent any by their parents will still have what they need. It's a shame that schools dont have enough in their budgets to meet these needs, but in fact they dont. It's an even bigger shame that these kids are sent to school by their parent(s), without all the neccesary supplies. These teachers feel like they have no choice but to go spend their own money on these supplies though, because the bottom line is, the preformace of their students (or lack there of), is judged as a direct reflection on them. Too bad we cant fire the parents!

[Black_Magic]

Originally posted by CenTexSports
WOW. There was not a SINGLE fact in the last post. Strictly opinion. Paying teachers what corporate CEO's make will not make them better teachers just less whinny. What I expect is for teachers to do the job they are paid to do and do it well. The merit should be whether they keep the job or not. FACT is Teacher make less than Plumbers( who dont even need a degree much less a degree that takes 5 years to complete). Teachers are incharge of our "babies" but yet we pay someone who trains dogs for a living more. It takes the average teacher 5 years of college to become certified to teach. Public school teachers must have 24 hours of strictly education classes ( classes that teach teachers how to teach others) on top of the regular degree. Yet college professors are not required to take even one hour of education classes in order to teach college students:eek: . You want you cake and eat it to. You want to gripe about quality of education, pay peanuts, and have the right to go to school and gripe about what your kid is not getting..

[GOFOR2]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
im just trying to get feedback....having class discussions on Inflation and economic changes...

U r correct. Many other jobs offer standard of living adjustments. Many school districts dont do that. Heck many dont offer reward based incentives either....this is why you might find less than stellar teachers, because there is practically no incentive to improve yourself. I know some folks who still believe you can feed your athletes with $5, and still others who have not seen a budget increase in their programs in 20 years.

Times have changed folks, but the mentality on how a teacher should be paid has not.

By the way, how exactly is that lottery money helping education?

[pirate44]

Originally posted by GOFOR2
You homeschooling your kids?
put your question in the context of that quote. because i dont see the relevence between whether i home school and the fact salaried employees are asked to put in more time than non-salaried.

[pirate44]

Originally posted by BlitzemAll
it might depend on how much time you have invested in your retirement etc, if I was a 5th year teacher I might consider just moving on...but I have a lot of time effort and blood invested in this and I am willing to fight for what I think is right, but I do not take the "pity me" attitude....I only get fired up when people bash all educators for the whining they hear from a few. And yes, I admit a few whine
those few are the only ones i have a problem with. like i said, many are underpaid, but many are overpaid too. the retirement is a good point, but many people take a great paying job without chances of a 401k or retirement plan. that is just a choice that we as adults have to make. im not anti-teacher. i have too many loved ones in that profession. but i call it the way i see it and dont assume all teachers are deserving of high pay. must i apologize for my opinions? (thats retoricle)

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
MYTH: Teachers Are Underpaid

May 12, 2006 — Teachers are underpaid. Underpaid makes me ask, under what?

It's true that teachers have an important job instructing children, and many important people say, teachers are underpaid.

Democrats and Republicans applaud that line, but exactly what is "enough?" The average public school teacher makes $45,000 a year. That's $7,000 more than the average wage in America.

Still teachers at union rallies say they're underpaid.

At a 2005 rally, New York City's public advocate Betsy Gotbaum said, "For 20 years, they haven't been paid enough."

But where's the evidence? In a free country when jobs pay too little, people don't apply for them. Yet the opposite is true in many school districts.

This year Boston needed 675 new teachers. They got 2,800 applications — four for every job. In Los Angeles, it was five for every job. In New York, six. Chicago, 12. Kentucky had 11 applications per job, and Missouri, 19.

Still, we keep hearing that teachers don't make enough money.

Also, remember teachers are paid for just nine months of work. They have the summer off. Some work summer school, others relax.

Some teachers take the time off to relax, go to spas. One teacher I talked to said summers give him time to travel.

"If I'm going to be a good Spanish teacher, wouldn't it behoove me to spend some time in Mexico," he said.

It might, but the summer off means when you calculate teachers' hourly wages, you find teachers make more than chemists, physical therapists, psychologists, registered nurses, aircraft mechanics and firefighters.

Teachers demonstrated outside the "20/20" offices because they were mad at me for criticizing their union. They demanded I point out that many teachers work extra hours for no extra pay. OK. But it's also true that when it comes to teaching, most teachers aren't in it for the money. They just want to help the kids.

"It's about the kids," one teacher said. "I'm not a teacher for money, because I'd be a lawyer if I wanted money. I teach because I love kids."

That's right.
.
You mentioned 20/20... was this a John Stossel piece from 20/20?

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Pudlugger
This guy is a dedicated professional. Bravo! We need teachers like Hannibal.

There is a lot more to a satisfying profession than money. To go to work every day knowing what you do matters and looking forward to it is priceless. Nontheless, you need to be able to take care of your family. The average national salary is way more than what teachers in Texas make, even when adjusted for cost of living.

One big problem I have with public education is the notion that all children deserve a liberal education (see John Dewey's book Democracy and Education). Back in the day when they taught industrial arts many young men and women learned useful trades and skills in school and went on to satisfying jobs. Not anymore. Now you have kids so alienated from the college prep curricula that they are a disruption or distraction in the classroom. On top of that US schools are now completely feminized. 90% of the disciplinary problems are with boys. Girls out achieve boys in every area except math. That is because the teaching models favor polite attentive girls as opposed to squiming ascertive and aggressive boys. Boys tend to question things--why do we need to do this assignment? Girls just go to work on it. This is seen as rebeliousness, an affront to authority. Boys need more hands on activities and space to move around in. Instead of recognizing this, teachers, school psychologists and administrators view this as a pathology needing medication . ADD-HD is a real disorder but it has become way over diagnosed as a way of dealing with the difference in hard wiring of boys and girls in the classroom. Many kids would benefit from industrial arts and would be happier in the long run. A good diesel mechanic can make in excess of $100,000/year. We all know what contractors, electricians and plumbers can make. Throw in IT and communication technologies and the opportunities are unlimited. But no, these poor children should not be deprived of a liberal (not in the political sense, but in the academic sense) education. We have drop outs, disciplinary problems, low performance problems, and criminal activity as a result. Many who go on to college are only doing so "to get a good job". They have little interest or committment to scholarship. I say the Dewey model needs to be thrown out and the system entirely restructured to include career training pathways, more boy friendly environments, and discard the one size fits all college prep liberal education that we now have. A robust liberal education is a good thing, but not for everyone. That is viewed as elitist and undemocratic, but is it right to force this on kids who neither want it or have the where with all to succeed in the academic realm? Offering more choices is not undemocratic, it is what makes our free market economy so vibrant and flexible.
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Awesome post!:clap: :clap:

[GOFOR2]

Originally posted by CenTexSports
What a poor attitude teachers seem to have. I have NEVER heard more whining than there is from teachers. You need to look at how the REAL world (US economy) works. Y|ou are all paid what the job justifies.

But don't get me wrong on one thing. If you can get more, do so. That is the American economic way. Just quit all of the whininng about what you agree to do for what you get paid. People are VERY TIERD of hearing it.

You might be grumpy too if you had to raise other people's kids and get crapped on by people like you.

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
FACT is Teacher make less than Plumbers( who dont even need a degree much less a degree that takes 5 years to complete).

Actually, plumbers & electricians have to prove 12,000+ hours of on the job training just to take the (very hard) 4 hour journeyman exam. After receiving that, he can go on to take the (very very very hard & comprehensive) 8 hour Masters exam. If and when he passes that, he still has to get bonded and insured before being allowed to apply for a contractors license. The state of Texas regulates all of this, and it is all very expensive. Finally after all of this, he must continually spend thousands of dollars per year to keep all this up, buy tools, replace tools, vehicle costs, administrative costs, etc..etc...etc...Dont think for a minute that plumbers and electricians are getting rich when you pay one $75 or so for a service call. If he is a good business man, and is doing everything right, he might be making between 10 to 15% profit at best. It's actually usually somewhere between 5 and 10%.

[SintonFan]

This is one of my favorite John Stossel pieces:
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Stupid in America
Why your kids are probably dumber than Belgians
John Stossel


For "Stupid in America," a special report ABC will air Friday, we gave identical tests to high school students in New Jersey and in Belgium. The Belgian kids cleaned the American kids' clocks. The Belgian kids called the American students "stupid."

We didn't pick smart kids to test in Europe and dumb kids in the United States. The American students attend an above-average school in New Jersey, and New Jersey's kids have test scores that are above average for America.

The American boy who got the highest score told me: "I'm shocked, 'cause it just shows how advanced they are compared to us."

The Belgians did better because their schools are better. At age ten, American students take an international test and score well above the international average. But by age fifteen, when students from forty countries are tested, the Americans place twenty-fifth. The longer kids stay in American schools, the worse they do in international competition. They do worse than kids from countries that spend much less money on education.

This should come as no surprise once you remember that public education in the USA is a government monopoly. Don't like your public school? Tough. The school is terrible? Tough. Your taxes fund that school regardless of whether it's good or bad. That's why government monopolies routinely fail their customers. Union-dominated monopolies are even worse.

In New York City, it's "just about impossible" to fire a bad teacher, says schools chancellor Joel Klein. The new union contract offers slight relief, but it's still about 200 pages of bureaucracy. "We tolerate mediocrity," said Klein, because "people get paid the same, whether they're outstanding, average, or way below average." One teacher sent sexually oriented emails to "Cutie 101," his sixteen year old student. Klein couldn't fire him for years, "He hasn't taught, but we have had to pay him, because that's what's required under the contract."

They've paid him more than $300,000, and only after 6 years of litigation were they able to fire him. Klein employs dozens of teachers who he's afraid to let near the kids, so he has them sit in what they call "rubber rooms." This year he will spend twenty million dollars to warehouse teachers in five rubber rooms. It's an alternative to firing them. In the last four years, only two teachers out of 80,000 were fired for incompetence.

When I confronted Union president Randi Weingarten about that, she said, "they [the NYC school board] just don't want to do the work that's entailed." But the "work that's entailed" is so onerous that most principals just give up, or get bad teachers to transfer to another school. They even have a name for it: "the dance of the lemons."

The inability to fire the bad and reward the good is the biggest reason schools fail the kids. Lack of money is often cited the reason schools fail, but America doubled per pupil spending, adjusting for inflation, over the last 30 years. Test scores and graduation rates stayed flat. New York City now spends an extraordinary $11,000 per student. That's $220,000 for a classroom of twenty kids. Couldn't you hire two or three excellent teachers and do a better job with $220,000?

Only a monopoly can spend that much money and still fail the kids.

The U.S. Postal Service couldn't get it there overnight. But once others were allowed to compete, Federal Express, United Parcel, and others suddenly could get it there overnight. Now even the post office does it (sometimes). Competition inspires people to do what we didn't think we could do.

If people got to choose their kids' school, education options would be endless. There could soon be technology schools, cheap Wal-Mart-like schools, virtual schools where you learn at home on your computer, sports schools, music schools, schools that go all year, schools with uniforms, schools that open early and keep kids later, and, who knows? If there were competition, all kinds of new ideas would bloom.

This already happens overseas. In Belgium, for example, the government funds education—at any school—but if the school can't attract students, it goes out of business. Belgian school principal Kaat Vandensavel told us she works hard to impress parents. "If we don't offer them what they want for their child, they won't come to our school." She constantly improves the teaching, "You can't afford ten teachers out of 160 that don't do their work, because the clients will know, and won't come to you again."

"That's normal in Western Europe," Harvard economist Caroline Hoxby told me. "If schools don't perform well, a parent would never be trapped in that school in the same way you could be trapped in the U.S."

Last week, Florida's Supreme Court shut down "opportunity scholarships," Florida's small attempt at competition. Public money can't be spent on private schools, said the court, because the state constitution commands the funding only of "uniform, . . . high-quality" schools. But government schools are neither uniform nor high-quality, and without competition, no new teaching plan or No Child Left Behind law will get the monopoly to serve its customers well.

A Gallup Poll survey shows 76 percent of Americans are either completely or somewhat satisfied with their kids' public school, but that's only because they don't know what their kids are missing. Without competition, unlike Belgian parents, they don't know what their kids might have had.

John Stossel is an ABC News correspondent and co-anchor of 20/20. His special Stupid in America airs Friday, January 13, at 10 pm.

Subscribe to Reason today! It's easy. Do it right from your computer. Subscribe to the print edition or the electronic edition.
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Sadly the necessary changes for school competition will never happen so long as teacher unions control what happens. I know many teachers here in Texas would love for a union to come knocking on our door.
Wake up America!!!
What we are doing now is NOT working for our children.:o :o :(

[GOFOR2]

John is correct. It ticks me off that kids just seem to get dumber and dumber each and every year. We as a society are failing them by allowing our government to put the educational system on the back burner. It seems that it is so much more important to learn what is on the TAKS rather than what is going on in Foreign Policy, Economics, Government, Biology, Physics and Math.

[CenTexSports]

I have never crapped on a teacher. I respect their choice of profession and admire their dedication. I jest detest their whinning just like I do those that whine in the companies that I have worked for.

I have moved my family twice for better paying jobs and I can not stand to listen to people that think they deserve more just because.

[JasperDog94]

Teaching vs. Babysitting

Who would get paid more?

Most babysitters charge 3.00 per hour per child.

3.00 per hour
25 kids (average)
6 hours per day

That totals 450.00 dollars per day.

177 school days.

Total: 79,650

I know I wasn't making that kind of money when I left the educational field.

[raider red 2000]

Originally posted by 3afan
microwaves? eh?

i was getting at the fact that lots of young people would rather have something not so good fast instead of waiting and putting time and effort into something worthwile.

[gato 76]

Originally posted by raider red 2000
i have never had 3 months off.

in the fall i work about 85 hours a week.

in the sping about 60.

am i underpaid??????

i dont think so...if i wanted to make more money i could go find a job that sucks but pays better.

i love my job.....is it hard at times? YES.
Do I wish that I made more? SURE

A coach at Bay City told me,you won't get rich coaching/teaching but you will have fun in this job.

[Underwater Basketweaver]

Originally posted by CenTexSports
WOW. There was not a SINGLE fact in the last post. Strictly opinion. Paying teachers what corporate CEO's make will not make them better teachers just less whinny. What I expect is for teachers to do the job they are paid to do and do it well. The merit should be whether they keep the job or not.

One thing I have to disagree with here. Paying better will not make tachers better is not true. In any profession if you pay better you attract higher quality people and then the competition eliminates the lower quality people, so by paying more you will get better teachers. It may not happen overnight, but it will happen. The problem right now is there is no competition. If you have teaching certificate you can get a job somewhere. Even if you don't have a teaching certificate you can get a job teaching, a couple of years ago there were 10,000 teachers in texas without one because of the shortage of teachers. why is there a shortage of certified/quality teachers. Um...I don't know, maybe cause you can't make much money at it.

Since when is it whining to ask for a raise. Maybe it is a result of the fact that teachers tend to complain to the public. The reason for that is that teachers only get paid better if the public votes for congressmen/women that care about teachers/education. If we get our message out to the people, then maybe they will vote with education as part of their thoughts. It may sound like whining, but we as teachers are only trying to to better for ourselves like everyone else. What is wrong with making a valuable job, that we love doing, more attractive with higher pay. This doesn't seem like whining, it seems like ambition.

[CenTexSports]

It is whining when you continously ask for something and bitch and moan about how how little it is when you don't get what you want (maybe the teachers spend too much time around the kids because they sound more like children that the kids do sometimes). Teachers have gotten raises every year and they have gotten more than most professions in the last ten years.

I promise you there are many higher paying jobs in industry and with service companies out there and not enough good people to fill them. If you really want to make more money, have the guts to step ont on a limb and go for it. You might have to move or prove that you deserve more money but if you REALLY want it, it is there. I don't personnally believe that most teachers want to earn more money, they want more money given to them.

Once again, I respect the job teachers do and I acknowledge the important role that they occupy but I am SOOOOOOO tired of hearing their collective whining.

[SWMustang]

I guess every school district is different, but the district I'm in (Klein) pays 40K for a 10 month contract with no experience. That's doesn't seem too bad. Now with 10 years of experience the pay is only 45K which isn't too great.

[Phil C]

I don't know about the teachers salaries today but I think that even though they may still be low it is better than in the past. For many years they were underpaid though. I think it was because of recent memories of the great depression of the 1930s. Back then teachers weren't paid high either but they had study work enough for 4 families to get by. So when the depression end they had to fight this being overpaid thing for years. I think in the late 70s it started to get more reasoable for them but because of the Great Depression thing it took a while.

[raider red 2000]

Originally posted by gato 76
A coach at Bay City told me,you won't get rich coaching/teaching but you will have fun in this job.


i love it.

i am sure that at BC this year isnt as fun as in the past...but the cats will be back soon.

[gato 76]

Originally posted by raider red 2000
i love it.

i am sure that at BC this year isnt as fun as in the past...but the cats will be back soon.

They will its just the fans there are just a little spoiled.

[Underwater Basketweaver]

I don't know where you all went to school, but I think every teacher who had anything to do with me (if I do say so myself) turning out as well rounded as I am should have made a 100 K a year for just having to deal with me. To all of you who are being so hard on teachers in this thread, I hope you were perfect in school, and you were the easiest kid to educate in the history of the world. If not, you should go back and apologize to all of your teachers after the things you have portrayed about them on this thread. I'm sure you had some teachers (not all) that had some positive influence on where you are today. If not, then you were just being babysat, and learned through osmosis.

[SWMustang]

Originally posted by Underwater Basketweaver
I don't know where you all went to school, but I think every teacher who had anything to do with me (if I do say so myself) turning out as well rounded as I am should have made a 100 K a year for just having to deal with me. To all of you who are being so hard on teachers in this thread, I hope you were perfect in school, and you were the easiest kid to educate in the history of the world. If not, you should go back and apologize to all of your teachers after the things you have portrayed about them on this thread. I'm sure you had some teachers (not all) that had some positive influence on where you are today. If not, then you were just being babysat, and learned through osmosis.

I think your post sums up the problem. You have arbitrarily picked a number that you think teachers are worth. The school district has picked a number that the market will bear. Every year a whole new crop of energetic teachers join the teaching ranks and they're all too happy to take the jobs.

[Rabbit'93]

Let me start off by saying I have a tremendous amount of respect for teachers and what they do and put up with.

That being said do i think teachers are under paid, my answer is no. School systems are not in the business of making money. The highest paying jobs are the ones that have a product/service to offer for a price. The higher the demand the more you can charge the bigger profit margin you have. ECO 101. Take a teacher that works 9 months out of the year making 40000. That equates to roughly $27.77 and hour. It took me 8 years to make that in a manual labor industry. I am a salaried employee and endure constant changes and processes. I arrive at work @ 6:30am and do not leave until 5:00. 52.5 hr a week if I'm not on call then it jumps to over 65 hrs a week. I do it because i like what I do, I'm good at it and I've worked hard and am now nicely compensated.

Life is all about decisions.

[JasperDog94]

BTW - Just because someone applies for a job doesn't mean that they are qualified to do the job. Do you guys have any idea how many uncertified teachers there are teaching?

[CenTexSports]

To UWBW;

Even though I lettered (started at middle linebacker) two years and lettered three years (starting catcher) three years, I was never sent to the principle's office, never got detention, graduated 5th in my class and never got in trouble (my dad says I just never got caught but this is the only thing I have ever know him to be wrong about). I never took a drink until I was of legal age, have not had a ticket of any kind in 30 years, and I have never smoked. (I do curse ocassionally and beat my wife)

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by CenTexSports
(I do ... beat my wife) Who doesn't?:blush:

[mrescape43]

Teachers are underpaid. They must have a bachelors degree and should receive better compensation.

[SWMustang]

Originally posted by mrescape43
Teachers are underpaid. They must have a bachelors degree and should receive better compensation.

A bachelor's degree is worth whatever someone wants to pay you for it. you aren't entitled to any job making any minimum salary just because you have it.

[Highschoolfan78]

Here's a joke some of you might find funny. I currently am a student pursuing a secondary education degree to teach history.



JOKE:
I'm fed up with teachers and their hefty salary guides.



What we need here is a little perspective.



If I had my way, I'd pay these teachers myself...I'd pay them Babysitting wages. That's right. Instead of paying these outrageous taxes, I'd give them $3.00 an hour out of my own pocket. And I'm only going to pay them for five hours, not coffee breaks. That would be $15.00 a day. Each parent should pay $15.00 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children. Even if they have more than one child, it's still cheaper than private day care.



Now, how many children do they teach in a day, maybe twenty? That's $15 X 20 = $300 a day. But remember they only work 180 days a year! I'm not going to pay them for all those vacations.



$300 X180 = $54,000

(Just a minute, I think my calculator needs batteries.)



I know you teachers will say, "What about those who have ten years of experience and a Master's degree?" Well, maybe, (just to be fair) they could get the minimum wage, and instead of just babysitting, they could read the kids a story. We can round that off to about $5.00 an hour, times 5 hours, times 20 children.



$5.00 X 5 X 20. That's $500 a day times 180 days.



That's $90,000.

HUH? Wait a minute...!

Let's get a little perspective here. Babysitting wages are too good for those teachers. Did anyone see a salary guide around here

[kaorder1999]

people seem to forget that a teachers salary is divided into 12 months and are also only paid ONCE a month in most cases. You used to be able to elect to take your pay in 10 months making the monthy income much better but that option doesnt seem to exist anymore....

let's also remember that school districts pay roughly 500k to 700k annualy for TAKS trainings for teachers and admin....i know a district last year that paid almost 300k for TAKS workbooks.

[kaorder1999]

if I were able to take my pay fivided by 9 months and wasnt obligated during the summer break at all to work for the school and was able to get a summer job that would be idea. BUT....I have in the last few years spent at least 3 weeks during the summer at some sort of TAKS training.....a week of Insevice....coaching school......2 a days....summer workouts.....we cant get jobs in the summer. It would be idea to get my salary in 9 payments and not have ANY summer obligations like most believe we dont have

[formermbcouns]

I sincerely hope you're being sarcastic or something, Pirate. If you're not, all I can say is WOW!



Originally posted by pirate44
teachers are overpaid