Should these things shock me...

[injuredinmelee]

... that happened in College Football today?

Miami getting hammered by Louisville. Esp with their QB leaving the game and losing their stud rb in week one.

Florida State losing? Is Bobby B done? Past his prime? Got Tom Landry syndrome (the game has passed him by)?

Tech not scoring a touchdown for the first time in 72 games?

Neither Tech or TCU scoring a td. I thought this would be another game where they combined to score close to 100.

Michigan just absolutely hammering ND? IT makes me so happy to see the golden domers lose however but should i be shocked? Was the rest of the dlow shocked?

[Paratrooper]

Originally posted by injuredinmelee
[BGot Tom Landry syndrome (the game has passed him by)?
[/B]

I am only shocked by this statement. Tom Landry? That guy was a great coach........an icon. Not every year you will have a stellar year but that guy is the ONLY reason that Dallas to this day has the great reputation. Jimmy Johnson was on his way until Jerry Jones ran him off. When Jones hits the road it will be a good day for Dallas.

[WestTXLonghorn]

Shocked except for the Michigan/Notre Shame game. Michigan has upset the Domers in recent years and the Domers are consistently overrated every year. Surprised at the SCALE of the butt whooping. . .but not at the win by the Wolverines.

Also, class fans all around from Michigan. Was a great game there two years ago at the Rose Bowl against them.

[injuredinmelee]

Originally posted by Paratrooper
I am only shocked by this statement. Tom Landry? That guy was a great coach........an icon. Not every year you will have a stellar year but that guy is the ONLY reason that Dallas to this day has the great reputation. Jimmy Johnson was on his way until Jerry Jones ran him off. When Jones hits the road it will be a good day for Dallas.

I think landry is the best coach that the Boys ever had but the game had passed him by. His last two years were painful to watch.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Paratrooper
I am only shocked by this statement. Tom Landry? That guy was a great coach........an icon. Not every year you will have a stellar year but that guy is the ONLY reason that Dallas to this day has the great reputation. Jimmy Johnson was on his way until Jerry Jones ran him off. When Jones hits the road it will be a good day for Dallas.

The Landry Era 5 SB trips 2 wins
The Jones Era 3 SB trips 3 wins

I would say BOTH have helped put Dallas in the elite status of the NFL


Now back on topic as far as today..not shocked Michigan won, ND was overrated because their D is slow.

Fla State has no running game, that sets up their passing game, and I think the Bowden that is the problem is Jeff the OC

Not sure why everyone thought TT would score a bunch on TCU, this is not the same TCU team that went 5-6 the year Tech dropped 70 on them

[Paratrooper]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
[B]The Landry Era 5 SB trips 2 wins
The Jones Era 3 SB trips 3 wins

I would say BOTH have helped put Dallas in the elite status of the NFL
]

No way.........read this.

Tom Landry was the 1st and only coach the Dallas Cowboys had for their 1st 29 years! During the Dallas Cowboys 1st 5 seasons they struggled to sub .500 records. Once the Cowboys had their system in place they ran off an unprecedented string of 20 straight winning seasons starting in 1966 till 1985. The Cowboys became the most successful franchise in league history during Landry's tenure, winning 2 Super Bowls, 5 NFC Championships, and 13 division titles, becoming affectionately known as 'America's Team'. Tom Landry retired in 1988 he was second on the all time NFL list of coaches with 250 victories. He was enshrined in the Pro Football Hall of Fame a year later and years later he was inducted into the Dallas Cowboys Ring of Honor. Tom Landry was one of the Greatest Coaches to ever grace a sideline!

The Jones era hasn't come close to this. The Jones era has trouble putting two winning seasons together.

[Maroon87]

Miami getting hammered by Louisville.


No surprise there. Not for me at least.:)

[MagicMan]

florida state barely beat troy last week. no surprise that they lost to a decent team

[Paratrooper]

Originally posted by injuredinmelee
I think landry is the best coach that the Boys ever had but the game had passed him by. His last two years were painful to watch.

Same thing they said about Paterno of Penn State but not true.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Paratrooper
No way.........read this.

Tom Landry was the 1st and only coach the Dallas Cowboys had for their 1st 29 years! During the Dallas Cowboys 1st 5 seasons they struggled to sub .500 records. Once the Cowboys had their system in place they ran off an unprecedented string of 20 straight winning seasons starting in 1966 till 1985. The Cowboys became the most successful franchise in league history during Landry's tenure, winning 2 Super Bowls, 5 NFC Championships, and 13 division titles, becoming affectionately known as 'America's Team'. Tom Landry retired in 1988 he was second on the all time NFL list of coaches with 250 victories. He was enshrined in the Pro Football Hall of Fame a year later and years later he was inducted into the Dallas Cowboys Ring of Honor. Tom Landry was one of the Greatest Coaches to ever grace a sideline!

The Jones era hasn't come close to this. The Jones era has trouble putting two winning seasons together.

You dont have to list the great acheivments of the Landry Era, I know what they are..I am not debating his place in history and honestly feel he gets left out when talk of the greates coaches in the NFL is brought up.

but you also have to take in account a few things...There was NO salary cap in Landry's day or even a true FA system. Meaning the great teams who drafted well could stockpile players and pretty much keep them until they deemed them done.

As far as the Jones era barely able to have two winning seasons. I guess you have forgotten the 6 straight winning seasons with 6 play-off trips 4 NFC championship trips and 3 SB WINS..something LAndry could not even do.

Again not knocking Landry but he should have retired honestly in 85 after the miracle 10-6 team that somehow made the play-offs even though they were not that good. After that it was downhill for Landry. He would not change up his offense, and his famous flex defense had been solved, yet he was stubborn and would not change. He himself admitted before he died he hung around about 3 years to long.

[Paratrooper]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
[B]

As far as the Jones era barely able to have two winning seasons. I guess you have forgotten the 6 straight winning seasons with 6 play-off trips 4 NFC championship trips and 3 SB WINS..something LAndry could not even do.
]

20 straight winning season is a much greater feat than 6. 5 NFC Championships, not trips, is greater than 3 Championships. I will agree that they have had more SB Wins, but who Dallas was playing in the 70s with Pittsburg and the Steel Curtain was much greater than taking out Buffalo. Last year Dallas.........ummm.......watched the playoffs at home just like I did. Dallas will be pressed to go to the playoffs this year. It still boils my blood that idiot Jerry Jones fired Tom Landry.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Paratrooper
20 straight winning season is a much greater feat than 6. 5 NFC Championships, not trips, is greater than 3 Championships. I will agree that they have had more SB Wins, but who Dallas was playing in the 70s with Pittsburg and the Steel Curtain was much greater than taking out Buffalo. Last year Dallas.........ummm.......watched the playoffs at home just like I did. Dallas will be pressed to go to the playoffs this year. It still boils my blood that idiot Jerry Jones fired Tom Landry.

Again I am NOT..REPEAT NOT saying a negative about LAndry..I am saying is he was in a system that allowed him to build a team and hold onto them as long as HE wanted..under the same system when Jones was there, the Cowboys dominated...You honestly think that if the salary cap is never implemented that the Cowboys dont stay a top team all the way until the triplets retire? Dallas lost their depth that made the three SB teams so great because of the cap.

[Paratrooper]

Sorry I will never concede that the Jerry Jones era was better than the Landry era. Dallas was always the team to beat back then. I see Jerry Jones as a feastering cock roach. The guy fires Landry and then when he finally does get a good coach in Johnson he runs him off also.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Paratrooper
Sorry I will never concede that the Jerry Jones era was better than the Landry era. Dallas was always the team to beat back then. I see Jerry Jones as a feastering cock roach. The guy fires Landry and then when he finally does get a good coach in Johnson he runs him off also.

I never said one era was better than the other..And what was Jones suppose to do? Let Landry suffer thru a couple more years? Landry was NOT going to turn it around, the game had passed him by simple as that, happens to all the great ones. IMO Jones saved Landry's reputation because 2-3 more years of 3-13 would not have looked good.

Jones could have let the old owner fire him, but he said I should do it and was a man to fly down and meet Landry in person to do it.

I will NEVER understand why people act like Jones firing LAndry was such a bad thing. It sucked yea, but that was because Landry would not admit back then it was time to go.

[Paratrooper]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
I never said one era was better than the other..And what was Jones suppose to do? Let Landry suffer thru a couple more years? Landry was NOT going to turn it around, the game had passed him by simple as that, happens to all the great ones. IMO Jones saved Landry's reputation because 2-3 more years of 3-13 would not have looked good.

Jones could have let the old owner fire him, but he said I should do it and was a man to fly down and meet Landry in person to do it.

I will NEVER understand why people act like Jones firing LAndry was such a bad thing. It sucked yea, but that was because Landry would not admit back then it was time to go.

There are folks out there you just don't fire. The Don Shula's, Vince Lombardi's, Chuck Knoll's, Bear Bryant's, and the Joe Paterno's. There are some in the pro ranks and in the college ranks you just don't get rid of in an arrogant manner. Landry was in this type of company of the elite. I am actually surprised that someone didn't shoot Jerry Jones over that. I know he had death threats after he did that.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Paratrooper
There are folks out there you just don't fire. The Don Shula's, Vince Lombardi's, Chuck Knoll's, Bear Bryant's, and the Joe Paterno's. There are some in the pro ranks and in the college ranks you just don't get rid of in an arrogant manner. Landry was in this type of company of the elite. I am actually surprised that someone didn't shoot Jerry Jones over that. I know he had death threats after he did that.


How was it arrogant? Being arrogant would have made the old owner or Tex to fire him. Arrogant would have been picking up the phone to do it...Being a MAN about it is flying down and facing a legend and being honest.

And I disagree..NO ONE has carte blanche to stay as long as they want in the world of sports IMO..what happened to the teams you named because the coach's stayed to long? It took year's for the teams to return to form..Dallas was back in 5. Sorry but sometimes even legends need to be shown the door

My question to you..You feel the same way about a player who is a legend but reaching that point where they no longer are productive? Should they be able to play for as long as THEY want?

[Paratrooper]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
How was it arrogant? Being arrogant would have made the old owner or Tex to fire him. Arrogant would have been picking up the phone to do it...Being a MAN about it is flying down and facing a legend and being honest.

And I disagree..NO ONE has carte blanche to stay as long as they want in the world of sports IMO..what happened to the teams you named because the coach's stayed to long? It took year's for the teams to return to form..Dallas was back in 5. Sorry but sometimes even legends need to be shown the door

My question to you..You feel the same way about a player who is a legend but reaching that point where they no longer are productive? Should they be able to play for as long as THEY want?

Landry found out on his way to the stadium. :confused: Players only get a certain life as their bodies just run out of steam, but coaches are different. There was a lot of talk about Paterno getting the axe just recently. Penn State recovered and showed all the nay sayers that Joe could coach. Pittsburgh still has this philosophy to this day. Knoll coached for years and years and now Cohwer. They could have given Cohwer the axe but the Pittsburgh owner sticks with his coach and it has paid huge dividends by what happened last year. Landry would have recovered also. There are plenty of coaches out there, but there are very few that are ever elite. Tom Landry spanned almost 3 decades of football. He had to adapt as equipment, rules, and personal changed but he always managed to get it done.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Paratrooper
Landry found out on his way to the stadium. :confused:


uhh no Landry was in Austin..He knew the team was being sold, he did not know his status. There was an article in one of the DFW papers that ran a picture of Jones, and Jimmie Johnson together at a Mexican resturant. He still did not know. The old owner offered to fire him, but Jones said no I will do it.

ALL that comes from Landry's book. I just checked to make sure. Jones flew down to Austin and met with Landry at a golf course. Was honest and upfront. Said it was time for a change.

And how do you know Landry would have recovered. He himself said that for the 89 season he thought the team was just about to turn a corner and he was going to build the team around Hershel Walker. This was a team that was 3-13 in 88. That is not about to turn a corner. That is a team in decline.

And the "bodies" of coaches might last, but they still reach a point where they are not able to keep up with the changes of the game. It happens.

[Paratrooper]

I was watching a documentary on it and I remember Landry said he found out actually on the radio. I thought it said he was headed to the stadium but maybe I was wrong on that. However, just as I showed though that the elite coaches do adapt. You can't just fire a coach because he has 2 or 3 bad years. Luckily for Penn State they never did it nor do they have that philosphy with the Pittsburgh Steelers. If Jerry Jones wasn't so arrogant why did he run Jimmy Johnson off?

[Txbroadcaster]

2 or 3 bad years???? they had missed the play-offs in 4 of the last 5 years and the one year they made it was the 85 team that had also been beat by the Bears one game 44-0 and the Bengals one game 56-21..That might be the worst team to win a division with 10 wins. On top of that they were NOT getting any better. This was not a young team that had talent in 88, they were an old team with one good RB and one good LB and that is it.

This is from the Dallas Morning NEws

Tex Schramm and Jones flew from Dallas to Landry's vacation home near Austin on Saturday afternoon and Jones broke the news to Landry that he was out. Then, at a news conference at Valley Ranch team headquarters that began shortly after 8 p.m., Schramm broke down.

"It was a very difficult meeting," Schramm said. "It's very, very sad. It's tough when you break a relationship you've had for 29 years. That's an awful long time."

Landry was not available for comment. "For Tom, he was emotional," said Schramm, who stood red-eyed and solemnly to the side during most of the news conference


On if he regrets the way in which he took over the team: "From the get-go, I retained two of the top PR firms in the nation. One was from Washington, D.C. and the other one nearby in Texas. I'm not going to give their names. But the interesting thing is that I had the opportunity to do it differently. Bum Bright said he would make all the changes I wanted before I bought the club. But I was advised that the heads-up way to do it was to address any changes face to face. I know that my gut was telling me that I needed to have a personal dialogue with Coach Landry. After we won one or two Super Bowls, I ran into some of those same PR people, and they told me they'd come up with a whole standard in PR advice based on our situation.

[Paratrooper]

Dallas has had only 4 good years since Jones has taken the helm 92-95 out of 16 years he has now had this franchise. Other than that Dallas has royally sucked since then with no end in site. I really hope they make the playoffs this year but I don't see it happening. Maybe with a track record like that they need to get a new owner. :thinking:

[lostaussie]

i just read this whole thread.............quite entertaining. lots of back and forth, no name calling, lots of facts. very good job of debating a point that you guys seem to both be very passionate about. :clap::clap:

[3afan]

why should ANYTHING shock us anymore?

[Bubba-Joe]

Ole bubba joe just wasted about 5 min. reading this thread
but he got his first cup of coffee down so something good happened

good lawd Txbroadcaster you must have been sniffin ragweed
TOM LANDRY is and always will be the greatest coach in the state of TEXAS
Jerry Jones come from Arkansas - gawd almighty Arkansas fer petes sake
that alone should say nuff
Tom played at UT
fought in the big war and built the COWBOYS

Jerry Jones is from Arkansas

again Arkansas nothing else needs to be said
Arkansas makes me want to shoot somebody
you know cousins can legally marry in Arkansas
Jerry Jones sheeeesssseee

[Paratrooper]

Originally posted by lostaussie
i just read this whole thread.............quite entertaining. lots of back and forth, no name calling, lots of facts. very good job of debating a point that you guys seem to both be very passionate about. :clap::clap:

Thanks. It just doesn't pay to name call and I respect Txbroadcasters opinion - don't agree with it but I respect it. Some people will try to make it personal but they usually have no other point to make so they lash out just like when a child doesn't get his way.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Paratrooper
Thanks. It just doesn't pay to name call and I respect Txbroadcasters opinion - don't agree with it but I respect it. Some people will try to make it personal but they usually have no other point to make so they lash out just like when a child doesn't get his way.


You suck you boo boo head;) :p

Just kidding..I can debate all day long. Not sure why people get personal all the time. First it is plain immature and also it destroys any point they are trying to make.

[Bubba-Joe]

Tx and Para you guys are okay but Bubba still says that Jerry Jones is from ARKANSAS

good Lawd Arkansas it don't get much worse than that