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View Full Version : I don't want to stir anything up.....just thought this was interesting!!!



Ranger Mom
02-14-2003, 02:33 PM
There have been rumors flying around the past couple of weeks regarding the outcome of the Greenwood/Bandera game. I was at the game and have watched it on tape also, I CAN'T tell if the ref made a bad call or not, but...rumor has it that Dawson Wilber DID make the field goal in the 2nd overtime. Here is the article that was in Greenwood's paper this morning. Please don't shoot the messenger as she tries to type all of this since the paper doesn't have a website to link to.

I watched it 20 times. I watched it normal speed, slow motion and stop frame motion. The VHS copy I received from KMID Big 2, along with the DVC Pro showed the ball was clearly inside the left upright.
My first reaction was disbelief, followed closely by an introspective search for an explanation..an understanding. Having not reached a logical or rational conclusion, my next feeling was that of anger and a sense of betrayal. How could the ref had missed such an obvious call?
A while back I attended a Greenwood basketball game and found myself sitting next to the parents of a Greenwood Ranger football player. We discussed many things, including the heartbreak of coming so close to the championship only to be denied by a missed field goal. True...the field goal only assured each of the teams another possession and would not have guaranteed a championship.
But if you know this year's team..a very special team, you know they did not give up and, as they have in their remarkable run this past football season, would always find a way to win. This was destiny's team.
However, it turns out the field goal was NOT missed. Let me explain. The story about the field goal had been circulating in recent weeks and several folks had mentioned it, but not having a son on the team, I still recognized the need for closure to such a disappointment for team members, coaches, parents and fans who supported this dream team and figured they were doing and saying whatever was needed to find closure.
When I was invited to watch the video of the kick, I first though, "Well..okay. Sure..Uh huh.." fully expecting to see the ball pass above the upright on what surely had to be a difficult call. Referees are only human, despite what we sometimes think. However, considering the person who invited me to see for myself, I knew something interesting was there.
This person is as down to earth and practical a person I've ever know...even considering their devotion, if not fanaticism for the game, they would likely want to get on down the road and not dwell on the lost opportunity.
Well folks.....I watched the ball pass "INSIDE" the upright so many times I can tell you which way the points of the ball were pointing when it slid past the pole.
The key word here is "INSIDE"! On KMID Big 2's sophisticated equipment, and on AV Production's Video equipment, you could even see the ball hit the ribbon attached to the top of the upright as it was blowing toward the middle of the goalpost.
After watching it several times I started to notice several other interesting things. For example, the shadow of the ball passed cleanly inside the shadow of the goal post. The referee, whose job it was to make the call on that particular side of the goalpost was nearly 4 yards behind the upright and came running up “after” the ball cleared the crossbar.
All the NFL and college referees I’ve ever watched call a field goal or extra points, they did so from a position directly under the upright and followed the ball until it passed the goal post before running a few steps to signal the result by raising both arms skyward to indicate it was good…or waving their arms in a lower crossing motion to indicate it was missed, followed closely by a signal indicating the missed kick was wide or short. In this case they just waived it missed, and didn’t indicate whether it was wide or short.
I also noticed the away ref, the ref who stood under the other upright, followed the ball until it was about 15 yards from the goalpost and then suddenly looked away and down. It took me several minutes to realize the ball passed directly between the sun and ref’s field of vision. He was protecting his eyes.
After the kick cleared, he then turned to the other ref and waited for his call…he himself did not, could not, see the final few yards of the ball’s flight.
I’d like for the ref who missed the call to watch the tape I watched. I’d like to hear him say, “I blew the call.” I doubt very seriously the ref would even agree to watch, even in order to explain what it was I saw. I don’t think he would…but he might. I’d certainly like to ask. They asked the ref’s who blew the call on the New York Giant’s 3rd field goal attempt against San Francisco… and that bad call kept them out of the Super Bowl hunt….and he admitted a mistake had been made.
This, you might think, won’t change the outcome of the game…refs make mistakes all the time…during the course of any given season in any given sport there will be teams who either win or lose on a missed call…and you are right. It won’t change anything.
Then why, you might ask, am I bringing it up now? Because I can’t now know for sure if Greenwood actually lost….or at the very least if Bandera won…I feel like it is still in overtime and Greenwood isn’t going to get it’s turn…and the frustrating thing about this particular missed call is we’ll ask ourselves for the rest of our lives, “What if…..?”
You are probably asking yourself why can’t I let it go? Life goes on….the sun comes up tomorrow, etc.
Well…..I’ve talked with a few members of the football team. I bumped into some of them in the mall…at restaurants…around town. Each of them told me in their own way in their own words, “…It’s just the way things worked out….we did our best….we gave it all we had…and even a few “we’ll get ‘em next year”…etc.”
Their eyes and hearts, however, told me something else. They each felt personally responsible….”If I had only made that tackle, made that blocked, intercepted that pass, not slipped down on my cut…"missed that last field goal”.
Well……it turns out you didn’t. And the one indisputable fact about life is…..Life Ain’t Always Fair.
You’ve been robbed. I can’t tell you what value comes out of that particular experience, but it’s in there somewhere.
Just keep doing the one thing you always did best….Never Give Up, in spite of the calls you get…..and know that WE know you did your job, even if the ref didn’t do his!!

Whew....my fingers are tired. Anyway, the newspaper article also had 4 still shots of the field goal. Like I said, I have only watched my video and can't tell anything one way or another. But I can understand the author's point on....what if?? But...my momma always told me, "IF is a big word" :D :D :D

Old Dog
02-14-2003, 03:14 PM
Ranger Mom....If only the human error part of the game could be put aside, wouldn't it be great; especially the adult errors that end up affecting the kids? But that can't happen because the game has to have refs and they are human. Maybe the game needs a time when the ref can say "I don't know" or "I couldn't see". If the ref had called it good and not really seen it, then the other team would have been slighted. Seems about like a coin flip sometimes.

There will always be games in which the "real" outcome is in doubt. Look at the National Championship game that Ohio St won. Lots of folks saw what they perceived as a ref error in that game that changed the outcome.

I was in a bi-district game in the "stone age" that ended tied. We lost on first downs even though we out rushed and out passed the other team. But, the arrangement looked at first downs as the second tie breaker....we lost! 40 years later and it still sticks in my craw, so don't plan to get over it too soon. LOL!

<small>[ February 14, 2003, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: Old Dog ]</small>

Ranger Mom
02-14-2003, 03:25 PM
Actually, when this all first came out, I was shocked. But I do have to say that the players probably took it better than anyone...I had made a comment on an earlier thread that the Ranger's are gonna be HUNGRY next year. All this has done is to make them even hungrier. The players are the smart ones, they have moved on. It just seems to be us old die-hard fans that keep wanting to rehash it!!

BULLDOGFAN
02-14-2003, 03:52 PM
I have looked at the video over and over from every angle and I have come to the conclusion you are right...

The Loch Ness Monster is real.

Bandera wins...game over.

<small>[ February 14, 2003, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: BULLDOGFAN ]</small>

Bandera YaYa
02-14-2003, 11:47 PM
OH MY GOSH...I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS! I HAVE A COPY OF THE GAME ALSO, AND I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT IF THE REF MADE A BAD CALL, THE RANGER KICKER AND THE REST OF THE PLAYERS THAT WERE MOST CERTAINLY LOOKING AT THAT BALL, WOULD HAVE CAUSED A HUGE COMMOTION, AT THE VERY LEAST, AT THAT PRECIS MOMENT. AFTER LOOKING AT THE GAME TAPE,I DIDN'T SEE THAT HAPPENEING AT ALL. TO SUGGEST THAT NOW BANDERA SHOULD NOT HAVE WON, AND TRYING TO TAKE AWAY OUR WIN BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE CANNOT GET OVER THE FACT THAT THEY LOST, IS REALLY PATHETIC. I'M SORRY, BUT THE GAME IS OVER. THE RANGERS PLAYED A GREAT GAME AND THEY HAVE NOTHING TO BE ASHAMED OF AT ALL, BUT THE SORE LOSERS THAT ARE TRYING TO TAKE THIS WIN AWAY FROM US SHOULD BE ASHAMED. PLEASE, OUR KIDS ARE JUST AS GREAT AS YOUR KIDS ARE, AND THEY TOO HAD THIS DREAM. THE GAME IS OVER AND YOU'LL JUST HAVE TO ACCEPT IT AND TRY NOT TO LET IT RUIN YOUR LIFE. IF YOU ARE SITTING AROUND STEWING ABOUT THIS, YOU HAVE ENTIRELY TOO MUCH TIME ON YOUR HANDS AND PERHAPS YOU SHOULD FIND A REAL CAUSE, LIKE WORLD HUNGER, TO DEVOTE YOUR TIME TO. PLEASE DO NOT DISGRACE YOURSELF AND SUBJECT YOUR KIDS TO THIS KIND OF AN EXAMPLE. PEACE.

wildstangs
02-15-2003, 12:01 AM
YaYa...I certainley have not heard any Ranger fans saying they should have won. No one is trying to take credit away from Bandera. I too would bring up the subject though. Now I havent seen the tape or anything, but I am sure the Greenwood fans wouldnt make up a story like this.

Bandera YaYa
02-15-2003, 12:53 AM
I AM HUGE FAN OF RANGER MOM AND I AM NOT SAYING ANYTHING AGAINST HER, SHE SAID SHE WAS ONY THE MESSENGER.....BUT THERE ARE RANGER FANS TALKING ABOUT THIS, AS THE PERSON WRITING THE NEWPAPER ARTICLE, STATED. I'M SORRY, BUT I DO TAKE OFFENSE TO THIS. I DO NOT APPRECIATE IT AT ALL. APPARENTLY, THERE ARE SOME WANTING TO TAKE THIS TITLE AWAY FROM US, AS I AM SURE WE ARE BEING SLIGHTED IN VARIOUS CONVERSATIONS THROUGHOUT THE TOWN, I.E. BASKETBALL GAMES. IF THEY WANT TO SAY WE WON ONLY BECAUSE THE REF MADE A BAD CALL, AND IT WILL MAKE THEM FEEL BETTER, THEN SO BE IT. WHATEVER FLOATS THEIR BOAT!! I SINCERELY WISH THEM GOOD LUCK IN THE FUTURE. AS GREAT AS IT WAS TO BE A STATE CHAMP ( AND BELIEVE ME, IT WAS THE BEST), IT WAS STILL JUST A GAME IN THIS THING WE CALL LIFE. WHAT REALLY COUNTS IS HOW WE LIVE OUR LIVES...

vet93
02-15-2003, 10:48 AM
YaYa...I understand your points. I have not seen the film and never will. However...I do need to make a point of clarification on one point that you made. I was a kicker and there is no person on the field that watches the kick more intently than the kicker as it goes through the uprights. Because of the angles involved and because there is no "slow motion" on the field, it is virtually impossible for the kicker or the players at that angle to tell whether the kick was good when it is that close. That is why none of the players said anything...they rely totally on the official to make the call. A camera angle is often more telling because it gives you the benefit of being able to judge depth based on the shadow of the football. Also, if the official was truly out of position, then it is possible that he could have missed the call because he would not have been at the proper angle. I don't think that anybody is trying to "take" the game away from Bandera. And it is certainly easy from someone who is sitting in the lofty position of being a state champion to tell teams that lost to just "get over it" or "its time to move on". Having lost a game that I felt my team could have won late in the playoffs...it is certainly not that easy to "let it go". Continue to bask in the fun and glory of being a state champion because it was a well deserved victory and season long accomplishment for your team. But try to show a little bit of grace and mercy for those teams who were not able to gain the prize. They will have to live with the fact that they may have been a play or two away from a state championship themselves.


Bandera YaYa:
OH MY GOSH...I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS! I HAVE A COPY OF THE GAME ALSO, AND I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT IF THE REF MADE A BAD CALL, THE RANGER KICKER AND THE REST OF THE PLAYERS THAT WERE MOST CERTAINLY LOOKING AT THAT BALL, WOULD HAVE CAUSED A HUGE COMMOTION, AT THE VERY LEAST, AT THAT PRECIS MOMENT. AFTER LOOKING AT THE GAME TAPE,I DIDN'T SEE THAT HAPPENEING AT ALL. TO SUGGEST THAT NOW BANDERA SHOULD NOT HAVE WON, AND TRYING TO TAKE AWAY OUR WIN BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE CANNOT GET OVER THE FACT THAT THEY LOST, IS REALLY PATHETIC. I'M SORRY, BUT THE GAME IS OVER. THE RANGERS PLAYED A GREAT GAME AND THEY HAVE NOTHING TO BE ASHAMED OF AT ALL, BUT THE SORE LOSERS THAT ARE TRYING TO TAKE THIS WIN AWAY FROM US SHOULD BE ASHAMED. PLEASE, OUR KIDS ARE JUST AS GREAT AS YOUR KIDS ARE, AND THEY TOO HAD THIS DREAM. THE GAME IS OVER AND YOU'LL JUST HAVE TO ACCEPT IT AND TRY NOT TO LET IT RUIN YOUR LIFE. IF YOU ARE SITTING AROUND STEWING ABOUT THIS, YOU HAVE ENTIRELY TOO MUCH TIME ON YOUR HANDS AND PERHAPS YOU SHOULD FIND A REAL CAUSE, LIKE WORLD HUNGER, TO DEVOTE YOUR TIME TO. PLEASE DO NOT DISGRACE YOURSELF AND SUBJECT YOUR KIDS TO THIS KIND OF AN EXAMPLE. PEACE.

Ranger Mom
02-15-2003, 11:53 AM
I feel I need to clarify something here. No one, and I repeat, no one has ever mentioned wanting to take the title away from Bandera. If Dawson did in fact make the field goal, then it goes into a 3rd overtime - (which would have been pretty cool!!)But you know the old saying, shoulda, coulda, woulda.
I don't want anyone from Bandera to think that we in Greenwood think you don't deserve the championship, because you do!!
I had contemplated posting this, because I didn't want anyone to think this was how all of Greenwood was feeling, this is just one man's account of the game.

I WAS curious to see what others had to say!!! :D

Bandera YaYa
02-16-2003, 12:10 AM
ok. Thanks for the clarification, I didn't want to think that ya'll were thinking like that. I wish that someone didn't have to lose, because iI really think both teams were awesome to have made it that far! Sorry i got upset, but I didn't want to think people were saying we had a cheap win. Anyway, like I said, it's all in the past and I only wish for good things for both sets of players. We lost our BB game tonite, so we are out of the playoffs.....oh well, it's on to Baseball and I do think we'll fare better there...we lost but we had a great time afterwards with the boys, it's all about making good memories and realizing how special these kids are and sending them into the world as prepared as possible...it's a whole different ballgame after high school and especially in these troubled times in the world we have. Anyways, always good to talk to you Ranger Mom!!

Ranger Mom
02-16-2003, 12:26 AM
That was EXACTLY why I hesitated posting it. I didn't want anyone to think we were just all sitting around talking about it. I was actually surprised to see the article in the newspaper! Anyway...to bad about the b-ball team, I think Greenwood plays next week. Our girls played last night and got hammered by Perryton, but it was pretty cool that our football team and both basketball teams went 10-0 this year. I guess I am getting ready to be fully immersed in track. My son runs sprints and does the triple jump and my daughter runs long distance, so that usually means my daughter runs the first and last race and my son runs in between. It sure does make for a long day AND our track isn't any good so we don't get to host ANY track meets. :( Oh well...I guess it's something to do while waiting for football season to roll around again! :D

Bandera YaYa
02-16-2003, 11:07 PM
YEAH, TRACK MEETS ARE AN ALL DAY AFFAIR, BUT FUN TO WATCH! GOOD LUCK TO YOUR SON AND DAUGHTER HOPE THEY WIN THEIR EVENTS!! I'M GEARING UP TO WATCH BASEBALL, WE SHOULD HAVE A REALLY GOOD TEAM AND I LOVE WATCHING THE GAME.....THOSE GAMES CAN LAST A LONG TIME, TOO. TAKE CARE AND THANKS FOR THE SUPPORT. YA YA!

sinton66
02-17-2003, 12:27 AM
RangerMom, things like this happen, and more often than people will admit. It is unfortunate when it happens in a playoff game or the championship. A similar thing happened in our championship game with Everman last year. We were 4 points behind going into the final two minutes of the game. Everman was down to a fourth down play, and threw a pass into the endzone for a touchdown to put the game out of reach. Our local TV station showed a tape that clearly showed it was not caught, but trapped and subsequently declared we were "robbed". Truth told, I doubt that we could have moved the ball 80 yards for a score with about a minute and a half left against that great Everman defense, but it would have been interesting to see the team try. This doesn't mean that any of us think Everman didn't deserve the win, they certainly did. Things like this are what prompted the NFL to install instant replay into their version of the game. Unfortunately, until we find a way to resolve these things, they will remain something we all just have to live with. As you can see though, I can definitely sympathize with your team.