controversial question for the religious

[pirate44]

i stopped making non-football threads since there were complaints, but it seems everyone is still doing it, so when in rome.....


anyway, with the announcement of the Fox news correspondant (and collegue) being freed (i guess he was freed), and the news he renounced his religion and converted to islam at gunpoint , put in the same position, would you renounce (insert your religion) and convert to Islam? Luke 12:9

[Txbroadcaster]

Real easy to say no I would not do that, but he had a GUN in his face. I wil NEVER blame someone for what they do on the threat of death

[pirate44]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Real easy to say no I would not do that, but he had a GUN in his face. I wil NEVER blame someone for what they do on the threat of death
this question has been haunting me since i heard of this mess. i hope i could tell them no, and trust in God whatever may happen, but then i wonder, what if God gave me the freedom to do what i can to get out alive and He will be forgiving. then i think, ok, i renounce Christianity and they immediately kill me anyway. then the Luke verse comes to mind. but then i think that Peter denied Christ. geez, ive been working long hours and i cant lose much more sleep over this

[3afan]

Originally posted by pirate44
in the same position, would you renounce (insert your religion) and convert to Islam? Luke 12:9

hell yeah I would! i'd say anything they want me to - ANYTHING!

[vet93]

Peter denied Christ 3 times and was lovingly restored by Jesus after the resurection. I would venture to say the same thing holds true to a gunpoint "conversion". Certainly there are times that we should stand up for our faith...we will have to trust God to tell us when those times may be...however, I don't think that Jesus would expect us in every situation to senselessly end our own life at the hand of some madman. He certainly worked through Peter after the denial. Who is to say that we wouldn't be called to a higher purpose by surviving....having said all of this...I think that some are called to be Martyrs and give their life as a testimony to their faith.

[DaHop72]

You would always hope that you would have the faith of Cassie Bernall and never renouce your faith, but I don't think anyone can really know what they would do unless they were put in that situation.

[pirate44]

Originally posted by vet93
Peter denied Christ 3 times and was lovingly restored by Jesus after the resurection. I would venture to say the same thing holds true to a gunpoint "conversion". Certainly there are times that we should stand up for our faith...we will have to trust God to tell us when those times may be...however, I don't think that Jesus would expect us in every situation to senselessly end our own life at the hand of some madman. He certainly worked through Peter after the denial. Who is to say that we wouldn't be called to a higher purpose by surviving....having said all of this...I think that some are called to be Martyrs and give their life as a testimony to their faith.
very true. and i dont think there is anything God cant forgive. but Peter later suffered a horrible crucifixion for NOT denying Christ. almost as if he had learned his lesson, and decided not to ever make the mistake again.

[99IHSMustang]

If you feel inside your heart that what is coming out is only becuase someone has a gun to your head... I don't see a problem with it...........................................

On the other hand if you feel that they might kill you anyways you can just tell him to stick that gun where the sun doesn't shine.

[garageoffice]

I think it's virtually impossible to answer this question until you are in that type of situation. Contrast this incident with the story that came out of the Columbine HS shootings. There's no way to know how someone else, or you yourself, will react. In fact, just like Peter, the ones who often protest the most that they would not fail are often the ones that do.

It sure is something interesting to think about, though.

[Bandera YaYa]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Real easy to say no I would not do that, but he had a GUN in his face. I wil NEVER blame someone for what they do on the threat of death For sure, I'd say anything they wanted me to say...it's not like I would mean it, but if it got me outta their hands and back to my loved ones, I'd say anything. God knows me and what I believe, so I wouldn't worry about that. :D

[garageoffice]

Originally posted by Bandera YaYa
For sure, I'd say anything they wanted me to say...it's not like I would mean it, but if it got me outta their hands and back to my loved ones, I'd say anything. God knows me and what I believe, so I wouldn't worry about that. :D

What if your faith and example turns out to be the sword that finds the chink in the armor of even one of the fanatics and results in his conversion? We don't know God's plans, or His timing. We are just asked to be His, and to be prepared, in season and out, to be witnesses.

Having said that, I still can't answer the question for myself, though. :D

[EricDraven]

Never know the answer until faced with that dilemma.

[Bandera YaYa]

Originally posted by garageoffice
What if your faith and example turns out to be the sword that finds the chink in the armor of even one of the fanatics and results in his conversion? We don't know God's plans, or His timing. We are just asked to be His, and to be prepared, in season and out, to be witnesses.

Having said that, I still can't answer the question for myself, though. :D You are right. I am weak. :(

[Blastoderm55]

Frankly this seems like a Catch-22. Why would an Islamic extremist force a prisoner to renounce their religion in favor of accepting Islam as their faith? Wouldn't they see that as a sign of weakness in an infidel? Just looking for another excuse to kill an innocent? These people don't make sense. Its bad enough our soldiers are dying, but having innocent civilians killed only compounds how ridiculous the situation in the Middle East has become.

[garageoffice]

Originally posted by Bandera YaYa
You are right. I am weak. :(


No, no, no....that's certainly not my point...or maybe it is and I'm weak, too! :(

My point is just that I don't think we can answer the question definitively until we are forced to do so. Courage and strength are sometimes found in the most unlikely places, especially when provided by a loving God.

[Bandera YaYa]

Originally posted by garageoffice
No, no, no....that's certainly not my point...or maybe it is and I'm weak, too! :(

My point is just that I don't think we can answer the question definitively until we are forced to do so. Courage and strength are sometimes found in the most unlikely places, especially when provided by a loving God. I agree......I would hope that I would always stand up for my faith, but these people are insane, and I wouldn't worry about what they make me do or say. If they would believe, with a gun pointed in my face, anything I would say, then they are the idiots. They are violent, insane cowards......

[EricDraven]

Just to play devil's advocate: Wouldn't real faith assure you that no matter what they do to your earthly body, it will not affect your heavenly soul?

[STANG RED]

I wouldnt renounce my faith in my heart, but I'd certainly tell that ragheaded idiot with a gun anything he wants to hear, if it keeps me alive. He has nothing to live for anyway, and will probably soon die for his moronic cause anyway.

[EricDraven]

Originally posted by STANG RED
I wouldnt renounce my faith in my heart, but I'd certainly tell that ragheaded idiot with a gun anything he wants to hear, if it keeps me alive. He has nothing to live for anyway, and will probably soon die for his moronic cause anyway.

Convert. Ask for gun to kill infidels. Waste camel jockeys. Repeat.:devil:

[pirate44]

when i first think of the Luke verse, it says:


12:9. But he that shall deny me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.

so that tell me, no matter what, dont Deny God. but then i read on and further down verse 12 says:


12:12. For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what you must say.

the last verse tell me that in the situation, God will be with me and my words will be inspired by Him. i hope so.

[BTEXDAD]

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
Frankly this seems like a Catch-22. Why would an Islamic extremist force a prisoner to renounce their religion in favor of accepting Islam as their faith? Wouldn't they see that as a sign of weakness in an infidel? Just looking for another excuse to kill an innocent? These people don't make sense. Its bad enough our soldiers are dying, but having innocent civilians killed only compounds how ridiculous the situation in the Middle East has become.

Jihads have been around forever. Middle East countries fight each other until they feel someone has invaded them, then they band together for Jihad to fight invading infidels. If they can drive infidels away, they turn back around and fight each other. The situation hasn't suddenly become ridiculous. It's been ridiculous for many years.
Oil is main reason US has big interest in the area (headline news), and since environmentalists fight against increasing oil drilling in many areas of US, unless more fuel efficient machinery or alternative fuel sources can be developed at reasonable prices, we will continue to be in middle east. There's lots of oil still available in Pacific off west coast and in undeveloped areas of Alaska, but doesn't appear they'll be opened to new exploration and drilling anytime soon.

I forget, what was this thread about?

[luvhoops34]

Originally posted by pirate44
i stopped making non-football threads since there were complaints, but it seems everyone is still doing it, so when in rome.....


I pointed this same thing out yesterday but got jumped on for bringing it up, sooo like you said, "when in rome" LOL

I think in a stressful situation like those newsmen were in it doesn't matter what you say to get out of the situation. God knows what's really in your heart. Do what you have to do to save yourself.

[Gsquared]

Originally posted by pirate44
i stopped making non-football threads since there were complaints, but it seems everyone is still doing it, so when in rome.....


anyway, with the announcement of the Fox news correspondant (and collegue) being freed (i guess he was freed), and the news he renounced his religion and converted to islam at gunpoint , put in the same position, would you renounce (insert your religion) and convert to Islam? Luke 12:9
You bet your arse I would! Id just take it back once I got home!

[sweetwater07]

i dont have a religion...so i wouldn't have much to renounce...
but i would assume that you would say anything to keep you alive

[garageoffice]

Originally posted by Gsquared
You bet your arse I would! Id just take it back once I got home!

Just make sure you have your fingers crossed while you say it! :D

[BJG40]

John 14:1-2 - Let not your heart be troubled ; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Heaven is prepared for those who abide in His words. 1 John 3:24.- Now he who keeps His commandments abide in Him...

So if we keep his commandments than we should not fear death because there is a better place prepared for us anyways.

Also, Romans 8:32- 32 He who did not spare His ow Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give all things & I John 3:16- By this we know love that he laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the bretheren.

So if we are commanded to lay down our lives for our bretheren and Christ laid down His life for us shouldnt we be willing to do the same?

In addition, we have nothing to fear. I know one cant truly comprehend the deathly situation until you are put into it but we can prepare for it and have no fear. Romans 8:31- What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us who can be against us? ...AMAZING... But if we were to die and lived according to His word, then we wont be seperated from Him. Romans 8:37-39- Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels, nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depthnor any other created thing, shall be able to seperate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Phillipians 1:21- For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

I know that when the day comes, I do not want to be the one who denied Jesus and God who has done SO MUCH for me. Besides, if I was killed, it would only be gain. If I wasnt killed, then I could continue to strive to serve Him in the wonderful life that I have been blessed with on this earth.

[Txbroadcaster]

Yea the whole hey it is ok if you die cause your in heaven thing just does not work for me...As great as heaven may be, my wife, and daughter are not there yet, so Iam not ready to go there..So I would say anything short of Texas High School Football suxs..if forced to say that, put a bullet in my brain

[pirate44]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Yea the whole hey it is ok if you die cause your in heaven thing just does not work for me...As great as heaven may be, my wife, and daughter are not there yet, so Iam not ready to go there..So I would say anything short of Texas High School Football suxs..if forced to say that, put a bullet in my brain
I was thinking the same for my wife and son. i know i was put on this earth to be a partner to my wife, a father and mentor to my son and a provider to both. I will pray first im never put in that position. second, i will pray if i am, that my actions and words will be guided by God's will.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by luvhoops34
I pointed this same thing out yesterday but got jumped on for bringing it up, sooo like you said, "when in rome" LOL

IMO, threads which garner discussion are fine.....those which seem to have absolutely no rhyme or reason are the "post padding" ones. (That's just one person's interpretation.....)

[pirate44]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
IMO, threads which garner discussion are fine.....those which seem to have absolutely no rhyme or reason are the "post padding" ones. (That's just one person's interpretation.....)
amen to that sister....i mean mom

[BJG40]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Yea the whole hey it is ok if you die cause your in heaven thing just does not work for me...As great as heaven may be, my wife, and daughter are not there yet, so Iam not ready to go there..So I would say anything short of Texas High School Football suxs..if forced to say that, put a bullet in my brain

I totally respect that but that's how great Heaven will be. Its not the personal "paradise " thats what is great about heaven. Its being in Gods presence. We may not even be able to fully comprehend that. However, and I say this with all sincerity, respect, and good intentions but maybe by living for God and striving to be with Him is the best thing for our families.

[MHSvarsity2007]

even after reading all of these replies, i dont know what i would do in that situation...something to ponder i suppose. :thinking:

[DU_stud04]

id like to say that i would religiously stay strong, but u never know what u would say with a loadedgun in your face

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by BJG40
I totally respect that but that's how great Heaven will be. Its not the personal "paradise " thats what is great about heaven. Its being in Gods presence. We may not even be able to fully comprehend that. However, and I say this with all sincerity, respect, and good intentions but maybe by living for God and striving to be with Him is the best thing for our families.

Sorry, but Heaven is not greater than hugging my daughter, kissing my wife, see my child grow up and exp life and become an adult. That to me is heaven

[vet93]

In all honesty...it comes down to faith as to whether we would lay our life down for Jesus. We must ask ourselves...can the same God who created the universe take care of my wife and child if something were to happen to me...the answer is of course, yes...if you put you faith in God. To put one's family before God is a form of idolatary which is forbidden in the Bible in the 10 commandments. The story of Abraham and Isaac is the ultimate example of someone putting God before everything else. Having said all of this....only God knows how we will and should react. This is a question to where there is no definite answer...however, it does make us examine our faith and what priority that we put in it!


Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Sorry, but Heaven is not greater than hugging my daughter, kissing my wife, see my child grow up and exp life and become an adult. That to me is heaven

[Gobbla2001]

difficult question....

If you had asked me around 3 years ago I would have said point blank that you might as well get it over with because I am not converting to your religion to save my ass...

But in the past few years I've thought about other things in relation to "saying things".... or "acting" like you're "doing things"...

To me, until someone proves me wrong (which may happen right now) I can say what I want, but words are words, not feelings... words are not your heart...

I'd be set free, go back home and send them a sweet little recorded video message:

"SIKKKKKKKKKKE... God Bless your family when you're bomed!"

[Hupernikomen]

Originally posted by pirate44
very true. and i dont think there is anything God cant forgive.

There is one sin that is unpardonable..

I would hope and pray none of us ever have to go through this situation, but I can't help wonder if this guy hadn't consider this very thing might happen to him and had prepared himself to survive.

Polycarp wouldn't have recanted.

Not to steal the thread, but Foxe's Book of Martyrs is a must read for Christians.

[kepdawg]

shoot me

[theyoefnshow]

Keep in mind the Book of Revelation. Mark of the Beast is the Mark of the Beast. If you take it, no matter what the reason (usually faced w/ execution otherwise) that is INSTANT damnation upon the return of Christ. Sorry, physical body is great and all but to spend an ETERNITY in hell? I'll pass. Read the book "23 Minutes in Hell." It'll make u think twice.