3 team scrimmages...

[AggieJohn]

blah.......as a ref, i hate this

[kaorder1999]

aggie...got a question for oyu you can answer as a ref.

Let's say a team is running a wing type of offense...they run a play with one receiver is route.....he is held 15 yards downfield by the defender. A pass is never thrown and qb is sacked....do you make that defensive holding call? And keep in mind its a pretty obvious hold

[Adidas410s]

let me guess...this happened in a scrimmage for you recently KA?

[kaorder1999]

not mine but one I watched

[Adidas410s]

I would think that typically a hold would not be called without a pass being thrown or a run coming towards the players. However, if the official felt that the QB didn't throw the pass because of the holding...then maybe that justifies making the call. Do you think that might have been the case?

Either way...definitely a gray area exists based on the given information.

[kaorder1999]

this is what i was told by an official afterwards when I brought it up. Since a throw was not made it was considered a running play when the QB being tackled. My point is kind of what you were saying. My point is...the throw could not be made because the lone receiver in route was being held. If hes not held then a throw can be made. I was told that if a throw was not made then a call would not be made. Didnt make a lot of sense to me. That hold directly impacts the play.

He threw a flag for the hold and then waved it off because the QB didn't make a throw...well..the QB didnt make a throw because his lone receiver was being held

[DaHop72]

I would think the flag should stand since the quartback was attempting a pass. As you said, he may not have thrown the pass do to seeing the receiver being held. IMO

[Adidas410s]

yeah it would pretty much come down to being a judgement call on the part of the official and I am sure that you would get a varied answer depending on whom you ask.

[kaorder1999]

thats my thoughts exactly. The official made it very obvious that teams WOULD NOT get that call on Friday nights. Crazy

[DaHop72]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
thats my thoughts exactly. The official made it very obvious that teams WOULD NOT get that call on Friday nights. Crazy That's crazy, if you have a good defensive line that can rush the passer you could get away with holding on any play that involves a pass. I would think it would cause an official a lot of grief due to the judgement side of this play. I would bet if you talked to another official and gave him the same scenerio you would probably get a different answer.

[AggieJohn]

he shouldn't of waived the flag, you call it if it's blatent....

the rule of thumb is that if a grandma watching her child can see something happen and say "wouldn't that be a foul" then that's when you throw a flag....

I probably would of called it if it was blatent, but the fact that the their was no pass wouuld make me want to pass on flaggin that

In other words, their is holding on any play, it just depends on if you as ref think its causing a detrement to the play.