The Rangers are done...

[Macarthur]

I was one of the folks that felt the deadline deals put them over the top. I still believe they have the best lineup in the west and have the best pitching staff they have had since the division championships.

What is the problem?

I'm not sure, but I think upper management should hold Buck accountable. This team is better than what they are playing. Daniels has done everything within his power to give these guys a chance and they are choughing it up. I'm afraid Buck needs to go. If you remember, he left NY and Arizona after four years and each team made huge strides after he left. This is his fourth year. For the record, I think he's back next year.

[STANG RED]

I cant help but like Buck, but I'm afraid you may be right. He just hasnt gotten the job done.

[Macarthur]

Don't get me wrong, I have no dislike for Buck. He has rebuilt this team into a legitimate contender in the West. The problem, I think, is similar to NY & Arizona. They just can't take the next step even with the talent available.

[Bearkat]

The RANGERS problem isn't Buck Showalter, it's their pitching. They lost last night 9-7. 7 runs should be more than enough to win a ball game. You very seldom see the RANGERS win a 1 run game. They swept the Mariners by out hitting them, not out pitching them. The RANGERS will not improve, no matter who the coach is, without pitching.

[Manck]

The answer to the Rangers' problem is simple.

ELIMINATE VLADIMIR GUERRERO!!!

[garageoffice]

Sad to say it...but I think you are correct. Fizzling under the summer sun once again!

[Phil C]

:(

[Bearkat]

Originally posted by Manck
The answer to the Rangers' problem is simple.

ELIMINATE VLADIMIR GUERRERO!!!


I think they were trying last night. Did you see how they were pithcing to Guerrero?

[VWG]

I am still holding out for hope. They have a 3 game series with the A's coming up after this next road trip.
My thinking is that if they can be within 3 to 4 games going into that series with Oakland.... at home... then they have a shot.
If they blow it and go into that series at or above a 5 game lead then it will be really tough. They have to take care of business and go into that Oakland series with a shot at picking up ground, otherwise it's time for clubhouse cleaning.

[Manck]

Originally posted by Bearkat
I think they were trying last night. Did you see how they were pithcing to Guerrero?
Don't get much Rangers' coverage in South Cackalacky.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by VWG
I am still holding out for hope. They have a 3 game series with the A's coming up after this next road trip.
My thinking is that if they can be within 3 to 4 games going into that series with Oakland.... at home... then they have a shot.
If they blow it and go into that series at or above a 5 game lead then it will be really tough. They have to take care of business and go into that Oakland series with a shot at picking up ground, otherwise it's time for clubhouse cleaning.

I think tonight is almost a make or break game for the them. Yeah they have 7 games with the A's and 6 with the Angels left after tonight (not to mention 9 against Seattle who they dominate)...but go look at the A's schedule. Since they played Texas, it's been 3 with Tampa Bay, 3 with Seattle, then 4 with KC and 3 with Toronto. That's a 13 game stretch where they will win 10-11 games. It's gonna be hard to make up ground when they have such a cupcake schedule late in the year.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by Bearkat
The RANGERS problem isn't Buck Showalter, it's their pitching. They lost last night 9-7. 7 runs should be more than enough to win a ball game. You very seldom see the RANGERS win a 1 run game. They swept the Mariners by out hitting them, not out pitching them. The RANGERS will not improve, no matter who the coach is, without pitching.

I disagree. Sure the pitching wasn't good last night, but neither was the Angels.

Their bullpen is one of the best in the league statistically. They have the best group of starters they've had since the division winners. Look at the other teams in the west and tell me that they have a significantly better pitching staff than Texas, and no one has a better lineup. They just simply don't. Texas has the best team in the west on paper. So, my question is what is wrong?

[GOFOR2]

They never buy any quality pitching. They will never be successful until they do that. Quit throwing money at home run hitters. Get some good pitching and defense.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by Macarthur
I disagree. Sure the pitching wasn't good last night, but neither was the Angels.

Their bullpen is one of the best in the league statistically. They have the best group of starters they've had since the division winners. Look at the other teams in the west and tell me that they have a significantly better pitching staff than Texas, and no one has a better lineup. They just simply don't. Texas has the best team in the west on paper. So, my question is what is wrong?

Here are some of the most telling stats on the Rangers pitching staff:

H/9 - 9.77 (last in AL West)
K/9 - 6.04 (last in AL West)
BB/9 - 3.18 (2nd in AL West)
Pitches/Inning - 16.43 (3rd in AL West)
Opp BA - .277 (highest in AL West)

I can't find stats that breakdown the relief pitching so I'll have to put them together later. These numbers alone aren't very good though so to say they have the best pitching in the West by the numbers is absurd. Based on players and the statistics, I would put them either 3rd or 4th.

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by Macarthur

Their bullpen is one of the best in the league statistically. They have the best group of starters they've had since the division winners. Look at the other teams in the west and tell me that they have a significantly better pitching staff than Texas, and no one has a better lineup. They just simply don't. Texas has the best team in the west on paper. So, my question is what is wrong? I disagree completely the bullpen is very weak right now Bower is emploding. A lot of the pitchers are young the only one really going strong was Littleton and hes very young and got hung with the loss last night. The Rangers bullpen is a MAJOR weakness right now. It may have not shown up yet but it will kill them from here on out. There starters are pretty good but they just lost Wells to the DL. But for most of the year they have been starting Koronka and Rhienager and neither one of them was very good. There rotation just got strong you have to have a good rotation all year. Not to mention Millwood not living up to his contract. Im a huge Rangers fan but I think its highly improvable that they make the playoffs. It would be defying history the A's always come on in the second half the Rangers always wilt away in the summer heat.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
Here are some of the most telling stats on the Rangers pitching staff:

H/9 - 9.77 (last in AL West)
K/9 - 6.04 (last in AL West)
BB/9 - 3.18 (2nd in AL West)
Pitches/Inning - 16.43 (3rd in AL West)
Opp BA - .277 (highest in AL West)

I can't find stats that breakdown the relief pitching so I'll have to put them together later. These numbers alone aren't very good though so to say they have the best pitching in the West by the numbers is absurd. Based on players and the statistics, I would put them either 3rd or 4th.

Not absurd at all. Granted, if you go simply by stats they don't look good, but that's exactly the point of my post. They should be much better; why are they not?

Starters:

Tex - Millwood 11-8 4.73ERA
Padilla 12-7 4.39
Eaton 2-2 4.41
Volquez 1-1 3.00
K. Wells 1-0 5.63
This is a solid 5 rotation - Koronka and Rheineker have been servicable #5's during the first part of the season. It appears Wells and Volquez are an upgrade at #4 & #5.

Oak - D Haren 10 9 3.58 30 (Won't be back this year, I think)
B Zito 12 8 3.83
J Blanton 13 9 4.53
E Loaiza 6 7 5.97
K Saarloos 5 6 4.77
With Haren out, I like Texas' rotation better

LAA - J Lackey 10 9 3.35
E Santana 12 6 4.36
K Escobar 8 10 3.89
J Weaver 3 10 6.29 (Has been a major bust; hurt)
H Carrasco 3 3 4.38
J Weaver 8 0 2.14 (They have hit on a youngster)
J Saunders 4 0 1.67 (another youngster they appear to have hit on)
Would like to have those kids that appear to be hits, but they are rookies. Again, Texas' rotation looks better to me.

Seattle - I'm not going to waste my time on Sea.

Oakland's bullpen is signifcantly better number-wise than everyone else, but Texas is better than LA. I think the bullpen is fine. And those that complain about them not going out and getting pitching, they have been going out and getting pitching. Did it ever occur to you that everyone else in the major leagues is trying to acquire pitching, as well? They did spend $60 million on Millwood. And talk all you want about the pitching, this teams weakness the last couple of years has been offense. Up until the last week or so, the offense has been a major disappointment this year.

My point is that given the offensive firepower on this team, the pitching is more than enough to be winning this division. The line-up is second only to maybe the Yankees, IMO.

So what is the problem? I think this team being at .500 at home this year is completely unacceptable. An offensive team playing in their offensive home park should be over .650 at home. It appears what has happened is that the hitting and pitching have been too streaky and they are rarely clicking at the same time.

[Adidas410s]

You said this...

Originally posted by Macarthur
Their bullpen is one of the best in the league statistically. They have the best group of starters they've had since the division winners. Look at the other teams in the west and tell me that they have a significantly better pitching staff than Texas,

and then said the exact opposite...

Originally posted by Macarthur
Not absurd at all. Granted, if you go simply by stats they don't look good, but that's exactly the point of my post. They should be much better; why are they not?

I'm confused :thinking: :confused:

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
I disagree completely the bullpen is very weak right now Bower is emploding. A lot of the pitchers are young the only one really going strong was Littleton and hes very young and got hung with the loss last night. The Rangers bullpen is a MAJOR weakness right now. It may have not shown up yet but it will kill them from here on out. There starters are pretty good but they just lost Wells to the DL. But for most of the year they have been starting Koronka and Rhienager and neither one of them was very good. There rotation just got strong you have to have a good rotation all year. Not to mention Millwood not living up to his contract. Im a huge Rangers fan but I think its highly improvable that they make the playoffs. It would be defying history the A's always come on in the second half the Rangers always wilt away in the summer heat.

The Rangers bullpen is ranked #6 in the AL. That is not very weak. I agree that their youth has started to show the last few weeks. However, as I said before, the pitching has been good enough. The first 2/3 of the season, I put on the offense. They seem to be picking it up recently, but they are going to have to kick some major ass the next month to stay in it.

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by Macarthur
The Rangers bullpen is ranked #6 in the AL. That is not very weak. I agree that their youth has started to show the last few weeks. However, as I said before, the pitching has been good enough. The first 2/3 of the season, I put on the offense. They seem to be picking it up recently, but they are going to have to kick some major ass the next month to stay in it. They also are either first or second behind kansas City if there second in blown saves.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
You said this...


and then said the exact opposite...


I'm confused :thinking: :confused:


I understand where that might be confusing.


Their total stats have declined significantly since the all-star break. Their bullpen is ranked #6 in the AL this year. That's with the horrible start by Cordero who blew double digit saves the first two months of the season. I also think you have to take the Ballpark into consideration. Oakland plays in the very pitcher friendly park and Texas' starters have performed better than Oak. Now, Oak's bullpen has been very good this year. However, if Cordero has not blown 11 saves, what would the Rangers record be? Granted, they may not have won all of those 11, but it's not unreasonable to think they should have won 9 of those 11. That puts them right there with Oak and maybe a game or two ahead.

Here's what it boils down to for me. If you look at the totality of the pitching stats, they look middle of the pack in the AL. however, if you mine down and look deeper at some of the numbers, especially considering the Ballpark, I think the pitching has been better than any of us expected.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
They also are either first or second behind kansas City if there second in blown saves.

True. I think that's been the biggest wart for the bullpen this year. Cordero blew 11 saves. If it's safe to assume they would have won 9 of those 11, they would be tied or a game up on Oakland.

However, as I said in my earlier post, I think excluding the Cordero meltdown, they have been better than any of us expected.

[Adidas410s]

where are you getting this "the bullpen is Ranked #6 in the AL" this year? Yes Texas bullpen has been better than expected...up until the 8th and 9th innings.

Yes Cordero had 9 blown saves...but Texas still went 4-5 in the games when he was charged with a blown save so it's not 9 losses...it's only 5. By comparison, Texas is 0-3 when Otsuka was charged with a blown save.

You can't really pin it all on Cordero. Texas has had inferior pitching all season long when compared to the A's and Angels. Koronka was good for a few starts...but then teams figured him out. Rheinecker was even better his first time through facing an opponent. However, he was consistently getting rocked anytime he faced the same team more than once. Nobody expected those guys to make starts for the Rangers...let alone perform as well as they did. The Rangers are fortunate to still be where they are in the standings. Their pitching (both starting and relief) has been consistently inconsistent other than Otsuka this year.

Yes they need a solid setup guy. They also need a solid, dependable #3 and/or #4 starter (Padilla is a 3 now that Eaton is back) that can be counted on to put up a 13-10 record. The Angels have solid starters in Lackey, Weaver, and Santana and maybe even out of Saunders (too early to tell). Even if Colon comes back at 80% of what he was last year...he's still as good as anybody the Rangers send to the bump. They also have a solid bullpen with Shields, Romero, Escobar, and Donnally before going to K-Rod in the 9th. Texas doesn't have near the talent in the bullpen that the Angels have.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
[B]where are you getting this "the bullpen is Ranked #6 in the AL" this year? Yes Texas bullpen has been better than expected...up until the 8th and 9th innings.

mlb.com


Yes Cordero had 9 blown saves...but Texas still went 4-5 in the games when he was charged with a blown save so it's not 9 losses...it's only 5. By comparison, Texas is 0-3 when Otsuka was charged with a blown save.

mlb.com says Cordero blew 11 saves. I didn't look at their record once he has blown the save so I stand corrected on that one. True on Otsuka, but those are the only 3 he has blown.


You can't really pin it all on Cordero.

True.


Texas has had inferior pitching all season long when compared to the A's and Angels.

True on the As, but the stats just don't say that compared to the Angels.


Koronka was good for a few starts...but then teams figured him out. Rheinecker was even better his first time through facing an opponent. However, he was consistently getting rocked anytime he faced the same team more than once. Nobody expected those guys to make starts for the Rangers...let alone perform as well as they did.

No doubt that those guys gave more than anyone expected. That's kinda my point.


The Rangers are fortunate to still be where they are in the standings. Their pitching (both starting and relief) has been consistently inconsistent other than Otsuka this year.

But again, I think going into the season had you told me the pitching stats, given the names we had on the roster, I would have taken it. I think the offense has been much more inconsistent than the pitching.


Yes they need a solid setup guy. They also need a solid, dependable #3 and/or #4 starter (Padilla is a 3 now that Eaton is back) that can be counted on to put up a 13-10 record. The Angels have solid starters in Lackey, Weaver, and Santana and maybe even out of Saunders (too early to tell).

But again, the Rangers top 2/3 (Eaton now in the rotation) have been as good as those three. And keep in mind the good Weaver was a complete surprise to LA. They were depending on the other Weaver and he was horrible.


Even if Colon comes back at 80% of what he was last year...he's still as good as anybody the Rangers send to the bump.

That may be true, but he's done for the year.


They also have a solid bullpen with Shields, Romero, Escobar, and Donnally before going to K-Rod in the 9th. Texas doesn't have near the talent in the bullpen that the Angels have.

But statistically, the Rangers bullpen has been better, excluding the blown saves (ERA, inherited runners scoring, etc.)

This is how the rangers rank in the AL in some of these key stats:

Avg. against - .249 ranks them #5 (Oak is #4 at .248)
Holds - They are tied at #4 with 35
Hits per 9 innings they are #5 with 8.41
K to BB ratio #3 with 2.10
on base avg. tied #4 with .324
slug % #3 at .368

So I'm not saying they have been outstanding. What I am saying is that given the park they pitch in, they have been more than adequate. I think the offensive inconsistency has been more of an issue this year and for the last several years, quite frankly.

[Adidas410s]

I don't know if it's been offensive inconsistency this year as much as not as much power from the offense. I'll have to pull some numbers here in a bit and see how overall production has changed. I'll do that here in a bit and get back to you.

I definitely agree on the pitching...other than Millwood and Cordero I think we can be pretty happy with the production that we've had. Plus Volquez has shown signs that he can be a legit starter and next season we might finally see Danks up here. Right now he is lighting it up in AAA.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
I don't know if it's been offensive inconsistency this year as much as not as much power from the offense. I'll have to pull some numbers here in a bit and see how overall production has changed. I'll do that here in a bit and get back to you.

I definitely agree on the pitching...other than Millwood and Cordero I think we can be pretty happy with the production that we've had. Plus Volquez has shown signs that he can be a legit starter and next season we might finally see Danks up here. Right now he is lighting it up in AAA.

Yeah, I sure hope either Diamond or Danks pans out. Volquez appears to have #2 type stuff.

The offensive power has definately been down. If you look at the aggregate numbers, the offense is like top 5 in all of baseball. That's why I think just the numbers can be decieving.

I think the biggest problem I see is that the Rangers have very few guys that work pitchers deep into the count. IF you consistently watch the really good teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, As, etc, they are really good at making pitchers throw lots of pitches. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a ranger hitter swing at ball 4 on 3-0 or 3-1. Rudy is widely regarded as one of the best hitting coaches, but I think that has been a real weakness of his hitters for some time.

[crzyjournalist03]

what I find funny is how the team wins five in a row, blows one, and all the sudden there's people talking about "they're done"...

Last I checked, winning five out of six the rest of the way would have this team running away with the division by the end of the year.

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
what I find funny is how the team wins five in a row, blows one, and all the sudden there's people talking about "they're done"...

Last I checked, winning five out of six the rest of the way would have this team running away with the division by the end of the year. people say there done bc they cant beat LAA.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
what I find funny is how the team wins five in a row, blows one, and all the sudden there's people talking about "they're done"...

Last I checked, winning five out of six the rest of the way would have this team running away with the division by the end of the year.

eagles_victory is right.

They are in a critical point of the season right now. They almost had to take these two against LA. Sure, they still have time, but they are getting close to needing an Oakland meltdown to win it.

What I am referencing is not the last 5 out of 6 games. This season is nearing the end and the rangers are a .500 team. They do not have .500 talent. I am extremely frustrated at how the season has turned out, especially with the committment the front office has made. Daniels & Hicks were probably the most aggressive team as the trade deadline neared.

I heard Evan Grant (rangers beat reporter) on the radio this morning and he brought up a good point. Going back to two years ago when they were in it late in the year, the rangers just have a knack for making stupid mistakes during a pennett race. I mean what the hell was Padilla thinking last night?


crzyjournalist03, if the rangers finish four or more games back from Oakland, will you consider this year a disappointment?

[crzyjournalist03]

Originally posted by Macarthur
eagles_victory is right.

They are in a critical point of the season right now. They almost had to take these two against LA. Sure, they still have time, but they are getting close to needing an Oakland meltdown to win it.

What I am referencing is not the last 5 out of 6 games. This season is nearing the end and the rangers are a .500 team. They do not have .500 talent. I am extremely frustrated at how the season has turned out, especially with the committment the front office has made. Daniels & Hicks were probably the most aggressive team as the trade deadline neared.


crzyjournalist03, if the rangers finish four or more games back from Oakland, will you consider this year a disappointment?

that depends on how many wins oakland ends up with...if Texas finishes five games back of Oakland, but the A's end up with 97 wins, no, I won't be disappointed. If the A's finish with 87 wins though, I would be very disappointed if the Rangers wound up more than four games out.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
that depends on how many wins oakland ends up with...if Texas finishes five games back of Oakland, but the A's end up with 97 wins, no, I won't be disappointed. If the A's finish with 87 wins though, I would be very disappointed if the Rangers wound up more than four games out.

I think that's a very valid point. However, given the fact that Oakland's pitching is dinged and given the fact that they have a very mediocre offense, I don't see Oakland keeping up the blistering pace they have been on. I look up and down Oakland's line-up and I can't figure out how they are winning the division. And then it occurs to me, they know how to play baseball. Oakland & LA are better managed clubs and they have smart baseball players.

[crzyjournalist03]

Originally posted by Macarthur
I think that's a very valid point. However, given the fact that Oakland's pitching is dinged and given the fact that they have a very mediocre offense, I don't see Oakland keeping up the blistering pace they have been on. I look up and down Oakland's line-up and I can't figure out how they are winning the division. And then it occurs to me, they know how to play baseball. Oakland & LA are better managed clubs and they have smart baseball players.


good point there, but if you're really looking for a reason that the A's are on top, check the schedule...

August has been full of games against Seattle, Tampa, and Kansas City...after this week, Oakland's schedule gets much tougher. Out of all three teams in the race, the Rangers have the easiest schedule left by far starting next Monday...that's when it will be do-or-die for Texas in my opinion.

[Macarthur]

Well, that would explain their winning streak. The deal is, this division is wide open. The front office has done everything within its power to improve this team and I believe they have. It's now up to the guys on that bench to do it. We will see.

[SintonFan_inAustin]

i stop watching last night game after padilla gave up on the team and decided he was done for the night and just threw at the hitter so he could get tossed. But i am addictive to the Rangers every year and log back on to MLB and watch the rest of the game. One thing that nobody seems to be mentioning is LEE is a avg to below avg outfielder and hes causing them outs. He is slow to get to the ball and that weak throw to home. omg. Put him at DH and put Stairs in the outfield.

[GreenMonster]

I don't think this team is ready to throw in the towel just yet. HUGE win tonight in a must win situation AND a great team building exercise put into motion by the pitching staff protecting the hitters. A good ol' rugby scrum is great for building team morale!! Loved the pitcher flipping his glove off pulling up his sleeves as he sauntered off the mound and then throwing a huge haymaker. Good stuff indeed!

[Macarthur]

maybe this is the jolt they need.

as someone said earlier the A's have a difficult stretch coming up so maybe we can gain some ground.