legalized statewide casino gambling

[pirate44]

without saying where the taxing funds go, are you for the legalization of casino gambling in our great state of Texas?

[IHStangFan]

well, I can say that I enjoy hitting up the casino every once in a blue moon, but without knowing where the taxes and whatnot would go or how they would be used....I cannot honestly say.

[pirate44]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
well, I can say that I enjoy hitting up the casino every once in a blue moon, but without knowing where the taxes and whatnot would go or how they would be used....I cannot honestly say.
the reason i say that, is because id hate to legalize it only because we are funding a program with the taxing dollars. i was more interested in what peoples general thoughts on casino gambling in Texas

[Adidas410s]

If it provides additional state funding...that could potentially lead to lower sales and/or property taxes and (important to many) increased education funding. I am all for it...

Plus...I could find a poker game a lot more often when I get back into playing here pretty soon.

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by pirate44
the reason i say that, is because id hate to legalize it only because we are funding a program with the taxing dollars. i was more interested in what peoples general thoughts on casino gambling in Texas okay, then let me say I wouldnt be against it completely.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
okay, then let me say I wouldnt be against it completely.

why?

People's general perception of gambling is far from reality these days. I think there are a lot of preconcieved notions that developed during the mob era of Las Vegas and many people don't realize that they no longer exist.

[pirate44]

personally, without putting a whole lot of thought into it, im against it, but can you imagine the fuss that Louisiana would make if we decided to vote on it? they'd spend millions on lobbying against it.

[CenTexSports]

I don't care what you call it, it is still a tax and the poorest form of a tax. The people that can least afford it will gamble (proportionally) the most and you wind up with higher crime rates and poverty. Don't get me wrong, I go to the casino but I will vote against gaming every time. Look around Atlantic City or Shreveport, do you see a better town or better facilities? No way.

I do not want to see my taxes raised but I prefer that to legalized gaming in Texas. Why not legalize prostitution, weed, and other drugs to gain tax revenue from them?

[Cat22]

I do not gamble much at all, but the few times I've been to the casinos in Louisiana I've noticed that the majority of people there are from Texas. In the parking garages I would say 85% to 90% of the vehicles have Texas plates. We are losing alot of money to Louisiana.

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by CenTexSports
Why not legalize prostitution, weed, and other drugs to gain tax revenue from them? :thinking: Good idea! :D

[Old Tiger]

As long as it's like Oklahoma 18+

[tigerpride_08]

we might be losing money to lousiana but i don't want texas to be known for casinos...no need to corupt such a awesome state!

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
Plus...I could find a poker game a lot more often when I get back into playing here pretty soon. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Sweetwater Red]

I want to reply to this. But, I'm having a little trouble expressing
it with out having to write a 5,000 word essay.

Maybe this will convey how I feel about Casinos.

The problem with Casinos are ...

90% of the people that gamble at them can't afford to.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by Sweetwater Red
I want to reply to this. But, I'm having a little trouble expressing
it with out having to write a 5,000 word essay.

Maybe this will convey how I feel about Casinos.

The problem with Casinos are ...

90% of the people that gamble at them can't afford to.

true...you don't ever see the guy in Suburbia, Texas winning the lottery! ;)

However, I must ask this...

Who are we to judge what others choose to do with their money? As long as their actions are legal, then they are allowed to make their own decisions without judgement from others.

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
true...you don't ever see the guy in Suburbia, Texas winning the lottery! ;)

However, I must ask this...

Who are we to judge what others choose to do with their money? As long as their actions are legal, then they are allowed to make their own decisions without judgement from others. :clap: :clap: THANK YOU!

[Sweetwater Red]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
true...you don't ever see the guy in Suburbia, Texas winning the lottery! ;)

However, I must ask this...

Who are we to judge what others choose to do with their money? As long as their actions are legal, then they are allowed to make their own decisions without judgement from others.

True.

But, what about when it's a woman whose got 5 kids and living
off welfare and she blows her govt. check?
Or, it's a little 75 year old blue haired widow gambling away her
Social Security check? :thinking:

[CHS_Grad '85]

"People want economy and they will pay any price to get it."
- Lee Iacocca

[Haunta Yo]

70% of Louisiana's casinos revenue is from TEXAS.

Every Louisiana casino that was operational after Katrina and Rita had their best financial quarter EVER during that time.

FEMA money working on all the hardways!

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by Sweetwater Red
True.

But, what about when it's a woman whose got 5 kids and living
off welfare and she blows her govt. check? Then that's sad, but it is still her name on the check.

Or, it's a little 75 year old blue haired widow gambling away her
Social Security check? :thinking: She is 75, I think she can do whatever the hell she wants to do with her little check!

[Emerson1]

They need to make the legal gambling age 16.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by Sweetwater Red
True.

But, what about when it's a woman whose got 5 kids and living
off welfare and she blows her govt. check?
Or, it's a little 75 year old blue haired widow gambling away her
Social Security check? :thinking:

I'm not saying that I agree with the decisions that many people make when it comes to gambling.

Personally, I don't play any casino games...I will only play poker. The reason for that is because, unlike any other game, you are playing against the player, not the house. Also, while luck is a significant factor in the short run, the luck balances out in the long run and the more skilled players will win in the long run because skill (both mathematical and psychological) is about 95% of what is required to be a successful player...regardless of the stakes at which you play.

The biggest downfall to a poker player (and it's the same with people who frequent other gaming activities as well) is their inability to manage a bankroll. Many people ignore the long run scenario and instead look at the potential short term gain (while ignoring the loss potential) and will expose themselves to games that are either too tough or too high in stakes. A bad session can cripple ones bankroll and leave them in debt that they can't get out of...because once you start playing the game for the money, then you are playing scared and your ability to make correct decisions will diminish. In games other than poker, then is when a casino is able to make a significant amount of money because instead of being a 52-60% favorite, the house will now win 75+% of the time...and you have put yourself at a tremendous disadvantage.

K...I'm going to cut this novel short before I get past the prologue! ;)

[Macarthur]

We should pass it. It's rediculous for it to be illegal. It's an old puritan mindset that lead to the failure that was prohibition. It's very small minded. Also, it is a myth that gambling and crime go together.

There is little documentation of a causal relationship between crime and gaming.
Research conducted by the National Opinion Research Center (NORC) at the University of Chicago for the federal National Gambling Impact Study Commission (NGISC) found that “… the casino effect is not statistically significant for any of the … crime outcome measures.”
In its final report released in June 1999, the NGISC noted that it had attempted to investigate the relationship between crime and legalized gaming through studies by NORC and the National Research Council. These studies concluded that “insufficient data exists to quantify or define that relationship.” A further examination by the General Accounting Office confirmed the NGISC findings.
In 1998, 24 sheriffs and chiefs of police from gaming jurisdictions nationwide submitted to the National Gambling Impact Study Commission Crime and Gaming: Statement of Findings, which reported no connection between gaming and crime in their jurisdictions. Testimony before the commission by other law enforcement and public officials from gaming communities across the country told a similar story and, in fact, pointed to a decrease in crime in their communities.
A March 2000 report by the Public Sector Gaming Study Commission, a nonpartisan organization of state legislators who chair or are members of legislative committees responsible for gaming in their states, stated: “… the majority of the information collected during the past decade indicates there is no link between gambling, particularly casino-style gambling, and crime. The security on the premises of gambling facilities, the multiple layers of regulatory control, and the economic and social benefits that gambling seem to offer to communities are effective deterrents to criminal activity.”
A 1997 study conducted by Peter Reuter at the University of Maryland for the Greater Baltimore Committee concluded the following: “[I]n no case is there any evidence that casinos have had a major impact on the crime rates of towns or metropolitan areas in which they are located.”
A 2000 National Institute of Justice-funded study reported that “the casinos do not appear to have any general or dramatic effect on crime, especially in communities that do not have a high concentrations of casinos.”
A 1997 study by Jeremy Margolis, a former director of the Illinois State Police, assistant U.S. attorney for the Northern District of Illinois and Illinois inspector general, found: “[T]here is little valid evidence to support the notion that the presence of casino gaming in a community has any meaningful impact on crime rates.”
Crime statistics show that communities with casinos are as safe as—if not safer than—communities that do not have casinos. According to 2002 data collected from nearly 17,000 law enforcement agencies nationwide and published in the FBI’s Uniform Crime Report:
The crime rate in the Las Vegas metropolitan area, which includes crimes committed by the nearly 35 million annual visitors, is lower than many other major American tourist destinations, including Honolulu; Miami; Myrtle Beach, S.C.; New Orleans; Orlando, Fla.; and Phoenix.
Since 1980, Atlantic City, N.J., has experienced a significant drop in cases of violent and street crime—the murder rate fell 54 percent, instances of robbery fell 56 percent and instances of vehicle theft fell 86 percent—despite an increase in gaming opportunities in the area.
Between 1994 and 2002—during which time three casinos were opened—the crime rate in Detroit has dropped by more than one-quarter.
Despite a 35 percent population increase in Joliet, Ill., instances of murder, robbery, assault, burglary, larceny theft and vehicle theft all have decreased.
Orlando, Fla., which attracts 43 million visitors annually to its theme parks and other nongaming entertainment, experienced a 3.8 percent increase in vehicle theft between 1994 and 2002, while the national rate dropped 19 percent.
Those who attribute an increase in crime to the presence of casinos routinely fail to account for the fact that casinos are popular tourist destinations. When this influx of people is properly accounted for, there is no increase in crime rates when comparing pre- and post-casino periods.
A study by the Illinois Criminal Justice Information Authority, a state agency that works to improve the criminal justice system in Illinois, pointed to several factors linked to the presence of casinos that work to reduce the area crime rate, including higher levels of pedestrian traffic around casinos, economic prosperity, lower unemployment, and an increase in taxes from casinos for more police and security programs.
The evidence also does not support a conclusion that the gaming industry contributes to white-collar crime.
An August 1999 study, “Casino Gambling and White-Collar Crime: An Examination of the Empirical Evidence,” by Professor Jay Albanese of Virginia Commonwealth University examined the impact of casino gaming on white-collar crime. The most comprehensive study to date on the subject, it reported that the evidence does “not support the claim that casino gaming contributes significantly to trends in embezzlement, forgery, and fraud.”

The study found an overall net decrease in arrests for white-collar crimes in the largest casino jurisdictions from 1988 to 1996, based on an analysis of arrest data in these communities obtained from the FBI crime reporting unit. The study also found, for the crimes of fraud and forgery, casino jurisdictions reported significant decreases in arrests, whereas the nation as a whole experienced considerable increases.

[Sweetwater Red]

Originally posted by pirate4state



OK, I'll try again.

When people that are already living in or near poverty gamble
away what assistance they are getting that put's a burden on
the state which makes it's way to you, me, and anyone else
who works 40+ hours a week.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by Sweetwater Red
OK, I'll try again.

When people that are already living in or near poverty gamble
away what assistance they are getting that put's a burden on
the state which makes it's way to you, me, and anyone else
who works 40+ hours a week.

What burden are they placing on the state...or on us? It's not like the state will give them MORE money because they gambled off their initial money. I'm confused...:thinking:

[Sweetwater Red]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
What burden are they placing on the state...or on us? It's not like the state will give them MORE money because they gambled off their initial money. I'm confused...:thinking:

Ok, I am basing my opinion on a news show about the positive
and negative effects of state run casinos. They made good
arguments for both sides. The one that stood out most to me
was the effect of low income people gambling and the effect it
had on the state and tax-payers.
I don't remember the specifics. I just remember it was a bad thing
where I was concerned personally. I threw it out there because
I was hoping that someone else would know what I was refering
to and help back it up with facts because I am just winging it.
I will research this some so I don't look like a complete idiot.:D

[Old Tiger]

I know people in the horse racing industry have been trying to get casino's and gambling in Texas for years. If the casino's and gambling came to Texas it would increase the pay of the horse tracks. Example a $3,000 maiden purse in Texas would be like $5,000+ dollars in Louisiana.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by Sweetwater Red
Ok, I am basing my opinion on a news show about the positive
and negative effects of state run casinos. They made good
arguments for both sides. The one that stood out most to me
was the effect of low income people gambling and the effect it
had on the state and tax-payers.
I don't remember the specifics. I just remember it was a bad thing
where I was concerned personally. I threw it out there because
I was hoping that someone else would know what I was refering
to and help back it up with facts because I am just winging it.
I will research this some so I don't look like a complete idiot.:D

lol...nice! I'm not trying to be the devil's advocate, but I can't come up with any financial burden that it would place upon others that doesn't already exist. Say these people have to go to shelters for food...already funded. They put their kids up for adoption...already funded. Any type of poverty that they may incur as a result of their habit is already funded...whether by the government of private donations. I just can't come up with anything else....

[Chris Hart]

The LOVE OF MONEY is the root of ALL evil, and why do people gamble? Mostly because they LOVE money = disaster

I'm again it...

[GreenMonster]

Originally posted by Sweetwater Red
state run casinos.

Screw that. Privatization is the only way to go. My argument is that this state loses VERY large sums of money to our neighboring states in the other businesses that go with gaming. Hotel/motel, shopping, dining, entertainment, and vacation dollars are all lost to just the neighboring states that allow casino gaming. I live less than 20 miles from the nearest Indian casino in Oklahoma. It has been there roughly 5 years and they have expanded 5 or 6 times and there is a new casino going up right now as I type this that will be even closer to the Red River. There are 5 or 6 of these casinos within 50 miles of my driveway. It is a Multi-million dollar industry for southern Oklahoma making most of that money from Texans.

[wildstangs]

.

[wildstangs]

Definitely need them. Texas loses so much tourist money to our surronding states. Notice that three of the four states that border us have gambling.

I have gambled in New Mexico and Oklahoma. The places are always crowded, and if you take a quick look in the parking lot, over half of the plates are Texas.

I am heading out to Ruidoso in a couple of weeks. Further than Thackerville or Randlette, but Oklahoma charges a commission on blackjack and the scenery just isn't as nice.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by Haunta Yo
70% of Louisiana's casinos revenue is from TEXAS.

Every Louisiana casino that was operational after Katrina and Rita had their best financial quarter EVER during that time.

FEMA money working on all the hardways! This is the exact reason we don't need it. Don't make it easier for people to gamble away the money that they earn or are given.

Casinos are just like the lottery. They are a tax on people that are terrible at math.

[pirate44]

i am beginning to believe that the people have to be allowed to make that decision. im pretty sure it would be voted down though because of the fears some of us have mentioned. but i would like for it to go to a vote.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by GreenMonster
Screw that. Privatization is the only way to go. My argument is that this state loses VERY large sums of money to our neighboring states in the other businesses that go with gaming. Hotel/motel, shopping, dining, entertainment, and vacation dollars are all lost to just the neighboring states that allow casino gaming. I live less than 20 miles from the nearest Indian casino in Oklahoma. It has been there roughly 5 years and they have expanded 5 or 6 times and there is a new casino going up right now as I type this that will be even closer to the Red River. There are 5 or 6 of these casinos within 50 miles of my driveway. It is a Multi-million dollar industry for southern Oklahoma making most of that money from Texans.

true...true...

[Ranger Mom]

I didn't read all these posts so I may have missed this hashed in there somewhere.

I enjoy going to Vegas and would love to be able to do that occasionaly without going to another state.

I don't feel like I should be held responsible if some "irresponsible" person decides to gamble away money they can't afford to lose.

[pirate44]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
I didn't read all these posts so I may have missed this hashed in there somewhere.

I enjoy going to Vegas and would love to be able to do that occasionaly without going to another state.

I don't feel like I should be held responsible if some "irresponsible" person decides to gamble away money they can't afford to lose.
i consider Las vegas a second home and i think it would spoil it if Texas offered something similar (lets face it, there's only one vegas). it would be like living in the south pole and vacationing in the north pole (except for the cool tour of Christmas Land).

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by pirate44
i consider Las vegas a second home and i think it would spoil it if Texas offered something similar (lets face it, there's only one vegas). it would be like living in the south pole and vacationing in the north pole (except for the cool tour of Christmas Land).

Have you ever been to casinos in NM, OK, or LA? They are NOTHING like Las Vegas. Las Vegas is now the entertainment capital that uses gambling as it's main source of revenue. Other casinos are simply gambling establishments. Notice the difference in advertising alone...

Bellagio homepage:

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/3273/bellagio5gy.jpg

Horseshoe Bossier City homepage:

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/9574/horseshoe4ze.jpg

Las Vegas casinos market themselves in an entirely different way than any other casino. I don't think they having easier access to casinos in Texas would diminish the Las Vegas "experience" at all. When you go to a Winstar or Shreveport, you know you are going there to gamble. When you go to Las Vegas, you are going to have a good time...and gambling might be a major or minor part of that. The first time I went to Las Vegas...my friends and I were there for 4 days and I played in 2 poker morning poker tournaments. Other than that, we went to shows, clubs, the pool at Mandalay Bay, the Forum Shops...there are so many other things to do in Las Vegas than just gamble. It's a totally different experience and really shouldn't be compared against other casinos who focus on gambling.

[pirate44]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
Have you ever been to casinos in NM, OK, or LA? They are NOTHING like Las Vegas. Las Vegas is now the entertainment capital that uses gambling as it's main source of revenue. Other casinos are simply gambling establishments. Notice the difference in advertising alone...

Bellagio homepage:

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/3273/bellagio5gy.jpg

Horseshoe Bossier City homepage:

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/9574/horseshoe4ze.jpg

Las Vegas casinos market themselves in an entirely different way than any other casino. I don't think they having easier access to casinos in Texas would diminish the Las Vegas "experience" at all. When you go to a Winstar or Shreveport, you know you are going there to gamble. When you go to Las Vegas, you are going to have a good time...and gambling might be a major or minor part of that. The first time I went to Las Vegas...my friends and I were there for 4 days and I played in 2 poker morning poker tournaments. Other than that, we went to shows, clubs, the pool at Mandalay Bay, the Forum Shops...there are so many other things to do in Las Vegas than just gamble. It's a totally different experience and really shouldn't be compared against other casinos who focus on gambling.
i wil give you my reasoning (remember, i said no place could totally duplicate Vegas)

Texas does everything bigger and better (its not just a saying). the population and the concentration large corporate entities makes me believe a gambling Texas would be way more Vegas-like than any of the other states. with the amount of Texans who drop money in vegas, louisiana, etc., dropping in in Texas cities, its bound to be bigger and better than all the places you mentioned. it would definately pass Atlantic City and Reno as #2.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by pirate44
i wil give you my reasoning (remember, i said no place could totally duplicate Vegas)

Texas does everything bigger and better (its not just a saying). the population and the concentration large corporate entities makes me believe a gambling Texas would be way more Vegas-like than any of the other states. with the amount of Texans who drop money in vegas, louisiana, etc., dropping in in Texas cities, its bound to be bigger and better than all the places you mentioned. it would definately pass Atlantic City and Reno as #2.

Fair point...I could definitely see that happening. I wonder if the casinos would be built into your major cities or would they be built in growing areas (i.e. N of Frisco, S of Austin, NW of Houston, N of San Antonio) so that the community grows up around the casino (ala Las Vegas) instead of the other way around (ala A-City, Shreveport, etc). :thinking:

[pirate44]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
Fair point...I could definitely see that happening. I wonder if the casinos would be built into your major cities or would they be built in growing areas (i.e. N of Frisco, S of Austin, NW of Houston, N of San Antonio) so that the community grows up around the casino (ala Las Vegas) instead of the other way around (ala A-City, Shreveport, etc). :thinking:
it wouldnt suprise me if there is a stipulation where gambling institutions have to be worth x amount of money or they are taxed by the state an exorbitant amount to choke off any small joint that may want to join in.