Pit-Bulls

[mustang04]

I was just reading around on the internet about denver exterminating pit-bulls. i honestly think its BS, pit-bulls are VERY loving dogs as well as good family guardians.....we got one when i was 3 and it lived until football season of my senior year in highschool....best dog ive ever had, he had a personality and i'll tear up sometimes when i think about how he used to smile

now i have 3 pit-bulls, one brindle male, a brindle female, and a female blue-pit (all are registered purebred and have papers)

they are so fun and they jump and wanna play, and when they get around both my baby nephews, they know somehow that they cant be rough by trying to play, so they just lick them lol

what are yalls opinions?

[SintonFan]

Pits are abused by people who want to make them vicious. Most I come across are very loving, intelligent dogs.

[mustang04]

it just amazes me how ppl vote them killer dogs without any explanation.

[District303aPastPlayer]

i believe, like everything else and everyone else, you are a product of your environment. so in that case, if the dogs are raised to be family pets, then they will be family pets. if they are raised by idiots who want to fight them, then they will be killer dogs.
i find it funny how young teens see them as a status symbol because some musicians/artists have them, such as DMX. If anyone has ever taken notice, DMX raises them to sell them, and they are friendly in interviews. i dont know where i am going with this... but like any other dog, raise it right and it will be okay

[mustang04]

Originally posted by District303aPastPlayer
i believe, like everything else and everyone else, you are a product of your environment. so in that case, if the dogs are raised to be family pets, then they will be family pets. if they are raised by idiots who want to fight them, then they will be killer dogs.
i find it funny how young teens see them as a status symbol because some musicians/artists have them, such as DMX. If anyone has ever taken notice, DMX raises them to sell them, and they are friendly in interviews. i dont know where i am going with this... but like any other dog, raise it right and it will be okay

amen! ive seen chihauhaus that IF they were the size of pits, they would be freakin scary....its ppl who raise them to fight or beat them and dont feed them to where they have to fight off other pits of the same liter for food that make me mad....i can almost promise it would be hard to find someone who raised a pit with love and compassion but it still turned on them...i dont see that happening

its the owner

[District303aPastPlayer]

will the 5 people who say that they are killer explain why they think so?

[mustang04]

Originally posted by District303aPastPlayer
will the 5 people who say that they are killer explain why they think so?

they cant..they'll just go by rumors or by a friends friend who got attacked..but i bet they didnt research the owner...if ya honestly think that they just 'snap' for no reason...that really shows your logical intelligence

[Emerson1]

I think it's how they are being raised. Everytime you see a pitbull attack it's in a trashy neighborhood and there are 10 other dogs that it is living with in a bad enviroment.

[lepfan]

I did not vote on the poll....BUT....we had friends who raised a pit bull from about 8 weeks old to about 2 years. The dog was raised with children and adults and had always been a very calm dog. One day the dog snapped at a kitten they had....he then bit the kittens head off...when the 'owner' walked out the back door (after seeing what had happened) the dog came toward him barking and growling at him. This guy had a 2 year old daughter and made a very important decision in a split second. He was a police officer and had just gotten dressed for work and was about to leave when he saw all this happen...as the dog was coming toward him growling with kitty blood dripping the guy pulled his gun out and shot the dog DEAD! It really bothered him to do that because it was a pet he had raised PLUS>>>>he had to account for the firing of his gun.

This dog had been raised as a family pet....I do believe they product of your environment theory too....but, I don't know how to explain this incident. All I can think is he just reacted to the kitty before thinking

My daughter was bit in the face by a part chow who was the most loving dog around...I am not sure what happened, but he knew the minute he bit her he messed up. His owner called his name and he went to the corner of the yard and put his head down.

[lepfan]

Originally posted by Emerson1
I think it's how they are being raised. Everytime you see a pitbull attack it's in a trashy neighborhood and there are 10 other dogs that it is living with in a bad enviroment. Not always...the story I just wrote about happened in an affluent neighborhood and was the only dog. There were 2 kittens in the family. I think that as with people---we can not stereotype animals! Not all pit bulls are dangerous....I will say I have been more afraid of some wiener dogs than some of the pits I have been around!!! Some of those things are vicious!

[pirate44]

i have heard similar stories. im not sure if its the breed. i do know that some breeds have been overbred and have disorders. dalmations are a good example. maybe thats the case with pit bulls, im not sure though.

[lepfan]

Originally posted by pirate44
i have heard similar stories. im not sure if its the breed. i do know that some breeds have been overbred and have disorders. dalmations are a good example. maybe thats the case with pit bulls, im not sure though. Dalmations are just as likely to 'reach out and bite you' .... I have heard that some are 'overbred'....that may be the case....?????

[Fal44]

I say it just how you raise them. i have had pitbulls and they have been great never attacked me or any of my freinds. Always listened to me just like any other dogs i have or had, its just some idiots that raise them to fight maybe some dogs are just plain mean i been around some that are just mean.

[smustangs]

i agree reg its crap cuz as soon as i get my own place im going to get one. i have wanted for a long time but no place for it. any dog responds to how it is treated and these type of dogs just happen to have the muscle build and body type to be bad and ppl treat them that way so they are bad and then they get the bad rap for it

[rockdale80]

I have one and it is a great dog. I will say that I have never owned a more intelligent dog, and I have had several different kinds. I think they act how they are raised, but I do know that some are inbred which leads to some mental incapacities. If you are getting one that is purebred then ask to see the pedigree of the parents. If they aren't inbred then you will have a great dog on your hands, but like any other breed...if they are inbred then you may have problems.

[pirateman98]

My roommate has raised her Pit for three years now. I have been around him and he is one of the most sweetish, kindish, PUSSY-CAT dog you would ever meet. My roommate wouldn't want me to say that but it is true. The dog has his own pet name Picksy and she is a cat. This dog would rather lick you to death than bite you. It's all in how you raise the dog that counts. The dog name is Papi Chulo and he lives up to his name. They are some sexy looking dogs in my opinion.

[CHS_CG]

I think its how they are raised. Everybody/everything has a jack@$$ button and if you own a pit and always violent with them they are gunna be violent to others. I honestly think any dog you raise violently will be mean!

[Chief Woodman]

seen way too many time folks that say "my pit bull is so gentle with my kids" Then one day they snap and altough they never bit a person before, the child is dead. A very dangerous breed. Kill 'em all.

[mustang04]

Originally posted by Chief Woodman
seen way too many time folks that say "my pit bull is so gentle with my kids" Then one day they snap and altough they never bit a person before, the child is dead. A very dangerous breed. Kill 'em all.

well maybe the parents need to watch their kids more closely with their dogs....ive seen TONS of other breeds of dogs snap on lil kids because the kids pulling on their tails the wrong way or doing something to the dog that is uncomfortable....my parents busted my butt any time i did something that could surprise the dog or hurt him in some way....

[big daddy russ]

Directly a product of how they were raised.

I've had several buddies who raised them. One of my buddies grew up on a ranch, broke horses, etc. He knew when to be firm and when it was time to play. Got his pit (named Lucky) about 10 years ago. Never had any problems with his him. Neither have his nieces and nephews who are always over.

Another is just an ex-Marine who picked his up in NYC. He found Bela wandering around the streets in a bad neighborhood (where he lived for a while), picked her up, and nursed her back to health. She was obviously bred for fighting, but he's had her for almost seven years now and she's been a great dog to him and all the rest of us. She's very overprotective of Robert, but once you get to know her the only way she'd ever hurt you is by wagging that danged tail of hers. Feels like a whip when they get excited.

On the other hand, I have a friend who's been too leinient with everyone in his life. His wife, his kids (all three of whom are now in HS/JH), and his pit. About three years ago, just before I moved to College Station, Max (his pit) went crazy. Lucky for John, he was the only one in the house and was able to defend himself with a broken broomstick. Was forced to put him down.

You never know how these things really are being raised, but it sounds like Reggie and his family knew how to raise theirs. Like my buddy Bobby said (the first guy-- grew up breaking horses), they're a lot like children. You give them too much slack, they think they can do whatever. You treat them bad or abuse them, they become a reflection of their owners.

[Chief Woodman]

Originally posted by mustang04
well maybe the parents need to watch their kids more closely with their dogs....ive seen TONS of other breeds of dogs snap on lil kids because the kids pulling on their tails the wrong way or doing something to the dog that is uncomfortable....my parents busted my butt any time i did something that could surprise the dog or hurt him in some way....

Sometimes yes, but it is inherent in the breed. Too many times the very person (adult) who is closest to them and treats them correctly still ends up on the wrong side of the biting machine.

[mustang04]

Originally posted by Chief Woodman
Sometimes yes, but it is inherent in the breed. Too many times the very person (adult) who is closest to them and treats them correctly still ends up on the wrong side of the biting machine.

go read a book about them first....have you ever read a dog owners manual about pits?? will tell you everything you need to know! you have your opinion and im glad you threw it out on the disussion board cuz thats why i created this thread

i guess it just takes havin one since you were a baby for 15 years and it dying ur last year at home before you go to college to see their true worth...cuz obviously by the stats produced by this poll, many people have an objection to pits

EITHER WAY! i had mine and i still cry when i think about him, and i have the ones that are alive right now which one is playing in the living room with my nephew right now

[Gobbla2001]

I've had a black lab and a german sheppard turn on me...

guess we need to get rid of them too...

my freaking taco bell dog has gone off once or twice, she's just little...

raise 'em right and you've got a chance, that goes with any dog...

[Chief Woodman]

go read a book about them first....have you ever read a dog owners manual about pits?? will tell you everything you need to know! you have your opinion and im glad you threw it out on the disussion board cuz thats why i created this thread

Don't have to read the book. I have only had to treat the folks mauled by them critters. AND fight the things off with an axe while trying to treat the injured. I hope things always work well for folks who own/love those critters. Will also be willing to treat them and listen to them say " he's never even growled at anyone before...I do not know what got into him...." One ever growls at me near my home...my over/under 410 shotgun shell shooting derringer will do my talking for me....

[injuredinmelee]

maybe the old addage is true you can take the person out of the ghetto but you cant take the ghetto out of the person. Instincts are something you cannot get rid of. Pit Bulls have an agressive instinct. IF you can constantly insure that that instinct is never brought to the surface then more power to you. Why have something that has the potential for danger? Why not choose a breed that is less prone to acts of violence? I for one do not find Pits to be an attractive breed of dog. I would not own one and I do not let my kids around pits or any other dog that we do not know whether it be pit, shepard, or retreiver. I wont have a gun where my kids can obtain it because there is that potential for danger. Why not remove the threat?

[injuredinmelee]

this topic actually stared me to thinking enough that I did a little reading and thought some of you might find some of this interesting:
Animal Temperment Testing (http://http://www.animalfarmfoundation.org/item.php?id=5&topic=0&item=336)

[SintonFan]

injured, surely you own a gun, right? At least to put down an offending chihuahua right?:p

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by injuredinmelee
maybe the old addage is true you can take the person out of the ghetto but you cant take the ghetto out of the person. Instincts are something you cannot get rid of. Pit Bulls have an agressive instinct. IF you can constantly insure that that instinct is never brought to the surface then more power to you. Why have something that has the potential for danger? Why not choose a breed that is less prone to acts of violence? I for one do not find Pits to be an attractive breed of dog. I would not own one and I do not let my kids around pits or any other dog that we do not know whether it be pit, shepard, or retreiver. I wont have a gun where my kids can obtain it because there is that potential for danger. Why not remove the threat?
.
The aggresiveness was bred into pits, it can be bred out of them too.:nerd: :)

[footballgal]

Can you say "Dog Whisper"? :D

I love that show!

[injuredinmelee]

Originally posted by SintonFan
injured, surely you own a gun, right? At least to put down an offending chihuahua right?:p
I do won some. THey are usually used on cats that leave me surprises in the garden etc..

[mustang04]

Originally posted by injuredinmelee
Why have something that has the potential for danger?

because it was worth the "risk" (as you think of it) to have a dog that was with me throughout the years...if your gonna talk about potential for danger, i guess that means you dont drive an automobile...i mean since there is ALWAYS the potential for danger...theres a potential for danger with just about anything...hell...why the hell do highschoolers play highschool football? i mean after that kid in everman breaking his neck along with many other injuries players have endured thru the years, 'why play something that has the potential for danger?'

bottom line....pits are what i was raised with and are what im going to raise my kids with, they are very loyal dogs and have more personality that just about any other breed

[luvhoops34]

We have owned LOTS of pit and half pit dogs. Never had problems with any of them towards people and excellent with kids.

They are hell on other dogs, cats and varmits, though!

Seriously, I have read about avoiding the in bread ones.

[injuredinmelee]

Originally posted by mustang04
because it was worth the "risk" (as you think of it) to have a dog that was with me throughout the years...if your gonna talk about potential for danger, i guess that means you dont drive an automobile...i mean since there is ALWAYS the potential for danger...theres a potential for danger with just about anything...hell...why the hell do highschoolers play highschool football? i mean after that kid in everman breaking his neck along with many other injuries players have endured thru the years, 'why play something that has the potential for danger?'

bottom line....pits are what i was raised with and are what im going to raise my kids with, they are very loyal dogs and have more personality that just about any other breed

I can control my car and I can predict by pattern what the cars around me are going to do or are doing and can react so. While your arguemnt is fine i choose not to have them around. I dont find them nice to look at etc. To each his own just telling you my thoughts.

[mustang04]

Originally posted by injuredinmelee
I can control my car and I can predict by pattern what the cars around me are going to do or are doing and can react so.

haha...so you think that makes it impossible for you to be involved in an accident??? u dont control your car...you control the speed and direction at which it goes, but several things can happen that are out of your control

either way...i just didnt like the comment about "potential dangers" cuz we all participate in sumthin during our life that brings us pleasure but has its dangers...and for me its owning every pit that i love to have

[injuredinmelee]

ok ill take the bait...

Driving is a danger but it is also a danger that is a necessity. We live in a society where you must drive. Sure there are avenues of public transportation etc but your same school boy logic applies to public transportation. Driving is a necessary evil to use your philosophy, an animal that has potential for danger is not a necessary evil.

[DU_stud04]

i like these dogs, i have a friend that has 5 pups, all full breed. id take one but kinda hard to sneek a dog in the dorms

and i also think its how they are raised.

[scrub c]

bad dog breed...

loose cannons that will flip out, maybe not on you, but will go off at any time.

all dogs are/were bred for a specific pupose, pits are bred to fight and kill.
what else do you need to hear?

[scrub c]

oh yeah and I vote to kill them all off

[CenTexSports]

Dogs have inbred instincts. If you take a pointer that has been raised in the city to the country and turn it loose, wait until he senses a bird and see what happens. Or take a Lab to the lake for the first time and throw a stick in the water and watch him jump in and get it.

The same goes with Pit Bulls. When the right stimulus is there watch out because their instincts take over. Almost every attack you hear about, you hear the owners talk about how gentle and loving their pet is. Why take the risk of getting yourself or a loved one hurt.

[scrub c]

great reply centex

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by scrub c
oh yeah and I vote to kill them all off
.
I've noticed a trend today where we want to eliminate all risks associated living life in general. If this trend continues then I think we will end up having to register pitts and others like them as weapons or worse. It's a continuous slide down a path of less freedoms led by political correctness and what is deemed "safe".
I whole-heartedly disagree with you on this.

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by mustang04
they cant..they'll just go by rumors or by a friends friend who got attacked..but i bet they didnt research the owner...if ya honestly think that they just 'snap' for no reason...that really shows your logical intelligence I voted they were dogs with killer instincts I was the first one to do so and it doesnt say why on the question if you want a why answer then put it on the question you asked a question I gave my opinion if your are going to attack the people who voted against you just bc they disagree with you then what is the point in having the poll? Dont make a poll and get mad bc you dont hear what you want to hear people are hear to give there honest opinons not to please mustang04

[Gobbla2001]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
I voted they were dogs with killer instincts I was the first one to do so and it doesnt say why on the question if you want a why answer then put it on the question you asked a question I gave my opinion if your are going to attack the people who voted against you just bc they disagree with you then what is the point in having the poll? Dont make a poll and get mad bc you dont hear what you want to hear people are hear to give there honest opinons not to please mustang04

This is what he says here, but I'm will to bet Reggie has a "Shut Up, you're an idiot" message in his PMs haha...

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by Gobbla2001
This is what he says here, but I'm will to bet Reggie has a "Shut Up, you're an idiot" message in his PMs haha... lol no i didnt send him a pm but i got one of those messages on my cell phone

[mustang04]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
I voted they were dogs with killer instincts I was the first one to do so and it doesnt say why on the question if you want a why answer then put it on the question you asked a question I gave my opinion if your are going to attack the people who voted against you just bc they disagree with you then what is the point in having the poll? Dont make a poll and get mad bc you dont hear what you want to hear people are hear to give there honest opinons not to please mustang04

i asked for explanations and i made that comment BEFORE anybody gave any legit explanations....i even thanked a few for their comments whether it was pro or con pits....maybe u need to read around the thread a little more

[Gobbla2001]

Originally posted by mustang04
i asked for explanations and i made that comment BEFORE anybody gave any legit explanations....i even thanked a few for their comments whether it was pro or con pits....maybe u need to read around the thread a little more

So, did you get that message in your pm's :p ?

[mustang04]

Originally posted by Gobbla2001
So, did you get that message in your pm's :p ?

haha...nahhhh...i dont think eagles victory could stoop to chief ohera's level on sending those kinda pm's hahaha:D

[mustang04]

Originally posted by CenTexSports
Dogs have inbred instincts. If you take a pointer that has been raised in the city to the country and turn it loose, wait until he senses a bird and see what happens. Or take a Lab to the lake for the first time and throw a stick in the water and watch him jump in and get it.



...good point, but thats not always the case...ive seen animals raised in places then released to where their kind is usually found and they were confused and wouldnt have survived

thats why pit bulls that have been RAISED to fight could whoop up on a pit-bull raised by a caring and responsible family in most cases..because he was raised in that environment where it was expected of him to use his instincts

thats why its such a big issue about releasing animals raised in a zoo into the wild....ppl are afraid that that creature wont have the survival skills and knowledge to survive on its own because it became dependent

BUT! then again..theres always that lion on that PIXAR movie "Madagascar"...his instincts came out and he chased after his best friend who was a zebra!

[SWMustang]

The drug dealers always have 'em. If the cops chase after the drug dealer on foot they turn the dog loose to slow down the cop. I'm gonna have to give the thumbs down on owning a pit bull. I've watched numerous news reports in Houston of these dogs mauling people. The owners ALWAYS say how sweet the dog is and that this has never happened before. My niece was bit on the neck by a pit bull that had never bit anyone before. Insurance companies are not real fond of providing homeowners insurance to owners of Pits. Any dog can turn on you and bite, but a pit bull can inflict a lot of damage. For me this is what I had in mind for my daughter:

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j200/pattonwb/kns.jpg

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by mustang04
haha...nahhhh...i dont think eagles victory could stoop to chief ohera's level on sending those kinda pm's hahaha:D i beg to differ lol jk im not very intrested in this tread so maybe i could of kept my mouth shut or should i say my fingers off the keyboard well anyhow I couldnt tell you the first thing about Pit Bulls but hey i started a little trouble which is and was my intention so its not all bad

[Chief Woodman]

Originally posted by luvhoops34
We have owned LOTS of pit and half pit dogs. Never had problems with any of them towards people and excellent with kids.

.



I am sure that Roy of Sigfreid and Roy thought the same of his "Tame" tiger until the tiger was behind him and saw Roy's neck (The natural attacking position for Tigers). 'Till then he was just a tame 'ole kitty. But when the natural instinct is there, sooner or later it has a better than average chance that it will overpower ANY training or love shown by the owner.

For those of you who are defending this breed based on your personal past experiences let me just say this. We are all creatures of experience and we tend to think something will not happen to us because so far it has not. But that is just unrealistic.....I had a guy in a HAZMAT class I was teaching tell me that he did not need safety glasses because the process he worked on had never harmed him. Further, his supervisors were just being "jerks" for enforcing the rule requireing him to wear the glasses. He said that every oportunity he had when they were not watching he would take them off just to prove his point. Sadly for him about 6 months after the class his luck ran out. That was about six years ago, and as far as I know he is still blind

[scrub c]

yup, dangerous breed...

[vet93]

Having had alot of experience with pitbulls in my practice...I would say that most pitbulls are very good, loving dogs. Much has been written about how they are raised and I think that living in a stable loving, well socialized home has alot to do with how well pitbulls respond to people. Here is what seperates pitbulls from many other breeds....the tools and instincts that they have been bred to have in regards to biting can be devastating. Most dogs are fear biters...they bite and let go. Pitbulls will bite and hang on and keep biting until the victim is no longer moving. That is why you see more severe maulings and bite damage with pitbulls. I personally like pitbulls for the most part...but if I owned one...if it showed any propensity to bite...then I would euthanize the dog. The safety of my family and the liability associated with biting another person is too great of a burden to have to deal with.

[CHS_CG]

SOMEBODY BUY ME A PUPPY PLEASE

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
I've noticed a trend today where we want to eliminate all risks associated living life in general. If this trend continues then I think we will end up having to register pitts and others like them as weapons or worse. It's a continuous slide down a path of less freedoms led by political correctness and what is deemed "safe".
I whole-heartedly disagree with you on this.

Reducing risks we can control has nothing to do with limiting freedoms, in this case. If one ever attacks one of my children, the dog owners freedom will not be something I'm concerned about. I'm approaching this as a father of three, and I have to agree with injured. The fact is the breed was bred to fight and that's where it's instincts lie.

[DaHop72]

Originally posted by vet93
Having had alot of experience with pitbulls in my practice...I would say that most pitbulls are very good, loving dogs. Much has been written about how they are raised and I think that living in a stable loving, well socialized home has alot to do with how well pitbulls respond to people. Here is what seperates pitbulls from many other breeds....the tools and instincts that they have been bred to have in regards to biting can be devastating. Most dogs are fear biters...they bite and let go. Pitbulls will bite and hang on and keep biting until the victim is no longer moving. That is why you see more severe maulings and bite damage with pitbulls. I personally like pitbulls for the most part...but if I owned one...if it showed any propensity to bite...then I would euthanize the dog. The safety of my family and the liability associated with biting another person is too great of a burden to have to deal with. Folks, that's the bottom line cause vet93 ought to know.

[Macarthur]

mustang04, I have to ask if a bit bull you own ever attacks your children or anyone else, and God forbid kills someone, are you still going to feel the same way?

Will you still assume the risk is the same with say a lab, retriever, collie?

The problem I see here is that this is a risk that affects everyone that lives around these dogs. You as the owner have a choice and understand the risks involved. Your children and the people that live around you do not have a choice in the matter. It comes down to where do your personal freedoms end and the safety of others begin.

For the sake of argument, what if your neighbor had a "bad" pit-bull. It's clear that it's a ticking time bomb. What rights do I have as a parent and neighbor?

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Macarthur
Reducing risks we can control has nothing to do with limiting freedoms, in this case. If one ever attacks one of my children, the dog owners freedom will not be something I'm concerned about. I'm approaching this as a father of three, and I have to agree with injured. The fact is the breed was bred to fight and that's where it's instincts lie.
.
"Reducing risks"... huh.
I then say we should ban all hand-guns because the potential harm can they do is even greater than the potential risks associated with pit bulls. Yes, it's a little over the top but reducing risks in today's politically correct world is sometimes skewed toward things that pertain to our freedoms. I'm basically saying that we do give up rights without even contemplating the big picture and what it might lead to further down the road. just my opinion...

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
"Reducing risks"... huh.
I then say we should ban all hand-guns because the potential harm can they do is even greater than the potential risks associated with pit bulls. Yes, it's a little over the top but reducing risks in today's politically correct world is sometimes skewed toward things that pertain to our freedoms. I'm basically saying that we do give up rights without even contemplating the big picture and what it might lead to further down the road. just my opinion...

The two are not on the same scale. Owning a hand gun is a fundamental right mentioned in the Bill of Rights. I don't believe owning a dog bred to kill that has a detailed history of mauling and killing young and old is quite the same thing. I suppose you were against the law that made it mandatory to wear seatbelts?

[SintonFan]

Not at all Mac. I've got some shred of common sense.:p
.
I think a solution for pits might be a national council that might make recomendations towards maybe "breeding in" more pleasant qualities for pits. It would take time but be more fruitful than lets say killing off a whole breed of dogs.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by SintonFan
Not at all Mac. I've got some shred of common sense.:p
.
I think a solution for pits might be a national council that might make recomendations towards maybe "breeding in" more pleasant qualities for pits. It would take time but be more fruitful than lets say killing off a whole breed of dogs.

I never said I'm for killing off the entire breed. I'm not comfortable with that, but I'm not sure what the comprimise is between total freedom and killing off the breed. I think there certainly needs to be something done, but it being practical is the biggest problem.