Where Do You Rank Dirk Today?

[Adidas410s]

If you had to take 1 player to start your team FROM TODAY GOING FORWARD...what would your draft board look like???

I think the top 3 are pretty obvious choices...but things get kinda gray after that. You can make a case for Duncan at #4 based on what he has done up until this year. However, the recurring foot injury is something that worries me and something that may very well lead to the end of his career in the next few years.

1 - Kobe Bryant/Lebron James
2 - Kobe Bryant/Lebron James
3 - Dwayne Wade
4 - Dirk Nowitzki
5 - Tim Duncan
6 - Steve Nash
7 - Kevin Garnett
8 - Elton Brand
9 - Shaquille O'Neal
10 - Yao Ming

What would yours look like?

[Adidas410s]

Geez...I thought this would be an interesting topic to discuss today. I guess not! :rolleyes:

[BTEXDAD]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
Geez...I thought this would be an interesting topic to discuss today. I guess not! :rolleyes:

Apparently not a lot of basketball fans on line, adidas.

Every time I watch Dirk (except the fourth game against Phx.), I get more impressed with him. Seven foot tall with those long arms, can play inside very effectively and as good an outside shooter as there is in the league. I'd have him ahead of Duncan as you have.
Just using your top ten, I think I would move Elton Brand up a couple places to sixth and drop Nash and Garnett. Move Yao ahead of Shaq simply due to age considerations. Yao's best years ahead, Shaq on downside of his career.
Tracey mcrady simply too injury prone to be in top ten. Hell of a talent though.

[Old Tiger]

1. Lebron
2. Shaq
3. Timmy D

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by Tiger WR
1. Lebron
2. Shaq
3. Timmy D

any reasoning on this?

[Old Tiger]

Lebron is Lebron



Shaq is a great precense inside in the paint. Without Shaq Kobe would not have won those titles.


Timmy D league MVP numerous times.

[eagles_victory]

1. Lebron
2. Kobe
3. Wade
4. Amare Stoudamire ( when hes healthy he was a beast last year)
5. Dirk ( he is rapidly rising i didnt think he was a top ten player earlier this year)
6. Tim Duncan
7. Steve Nash
8. Allen Iverson
9. Kevin Garnett
10.Shaq
11. Elton Brand
12. Vince Carter
13. T- Mac
14. Gilbert Arenas
15. Carmelo Anthony

Honarble Mention : Manu, Ron Artest, Shawn Marion, Jason Kidd, Chris Paul, Ray Allen

I hope i didnt forget someone but i bet i did

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by Tiger WR
Lebron is Lebron



Shaq is a great precense inside in the paint. Without Shaq Kobe would not have won those titles.


Timmy D league MVP numerous times.

With Shaq and Duncan though...note that I asked this question from today GOING FORWARD. Shaq's productivity has dropped off a lot the past two years...and Duncan's recurring foot injuries aren't getting any better.

[Adidas410s]

There is a page on ESPN that is called the "Hollinger Statistics." It attempts to determine the "most efficient" player in terms of overall production. Here are the regular season Top 25 rankings:


Hollinger Player Statistics What is PER?
Team Stats

Sort Options
Positions: All | PG | SG | SF | PF | C Players on pace to play 2000 or more minutes, or play in 70 or more games
Regular Season | Playoffs
Hollinger Stats: Player Efficiency Rating
RNK Player GP Min FG% FT% TS% Ast TO Usg ORR DRR Reb PER
1 Dirk Nowitzki, DAL 81 38.1 .480 .901 .589 10.2 7.1 27.5 4.6 23.5 14.2 28.20
2 LeBron James, CLE 79 42.5 .480 .738 .568 17.6 8.8 31.4 2.6 17.1 9.8 28.17
3 Kobe Bryant, LAL 80 40.9 .450 .850 .559 11.5 8.0 35.3 2.6 12.7 7.6 28.11
4 Dwyane Wade, MIA 75 38.6 .495 .783 .577 19.8 10.6 30.1 4.5 12.6 8.7 27.68
5 Kevin Garnett, MIN 76 38.9 .526 .810 .589 16.3 9.5 23.3 8.9 29.7 19.6 26.88
6 Elton Brand, LAC 79 39.2 .527 .775 .580 10.1 8.4 24.6 9.3 19.9 14.8 26.67
7 Allen Iverson, PHI 72 43.1 .447 .814 .543 17.9 8.4 32.9 1.7 7.1 4.4 26.02
8 Yao Ming, HOU 57 34.1 .519 .853 .592 6.5 11.3 26.4 9.1 25.7 17.5 25.78
9 Shaquille O'Neal, MIA 59 30.6 .600 .469 .586 8.8 13.0 26.6 11.7 23.1 17.6 24.47
10 Gilbert Arenas, WAS 80 42.3 .447 .820 .581 17.3 10.6 28.7 2.0 7.8 4.8 23.87
11 Paul Pierce, BOS 79 39.1 .471 .772 .582 15.2 11.1 28.2 3.1 17.5 10.5 23.71
12 Shawn Marion, PHO 81 40.3 .525 .809 .591 8.1 7.1 19.4 8.7 23.6 16.3 23.66
13 Chauncey Billups, DET 81 36.1 .418 .894 .602 33.1 8.1 23.4 1.6 8.7 5.1 23.43
14 Steve Nash, PHO 79 35.5 .512 .921 .632 36.2 12.1 23.4 1.9 11.1 6.6 23.29
15 Chris Bosh, TOR 70 39.3 .505 .816 .585 10.8 9.3 22.6 8.7 20.6 14.4 23.23
16 Tim Duncan, SAS 80 34.8 .484 .629 .523 13.5 10.6 25.1 10.0 26.9 18.7 23.13
17 Pau Gasol, MEM 80 39.2 .503 .689 .555 17.9 11.3 24.5 7.5 20.0 13.8 22.76
18 Manu Ginobili, SAS 65 27.9 .462 .778 .593 19.9 10.2 23.2 2.8 11.9 7.5 22.43
19 Ray Allen, SEA 78 38.7 .454 .903 .590 13.4 8.8 25.3 2.8 10.6 6.6 22.28
20 Chris Paul, NOR 78 36.0 .430 .847 .546 31.4 9.4 22.3 2.5 14.8 8.5 22.14
21 Carmelo Anthony, DEN 80 36.8 .481 .808 .563 9.3 9.4 28.5 4.9 10.7 7.8 22.10
22 Tracy McGrady, HOU 47 37.1 .406 .747 .494 14.9 8.0 32.0 3.1 17.2 10.3 22.03
23 Zydrunas Ilgauskas, CLE 78 29.3 .506 .834 .576 7.0 11.9 22.0 12.6 18.1 15.3 21.98
24 Vince Carter, NJN 79 36.8 .430 .799 .536 14.5 9.1 29.3 5.4 13.4 9.3 21.68
25 Michael Redd, MIL 80 39.1 .450 .877 .574 10.6 7.8 25.6 2.9 10.2 6.5 21.34

[Adidas410s]

as a follow up to that last post...this summarizes his rankings and has the 04/05 Top 10 players

The Player Efficiency Rating (PER) is a rating of a player's per-minute productivity.

To generate it, I created formulas -- which I've outlined in tortuous detail in "Pro Basketball Forecast" -- that return a value for each of a player's accomplishments. That includes positive accomplishments, such as field goals, free throws, 3-pointers, assists, rebounds, blocks and steals, and negative ones, such as missed shots, turnovers and personal fouls.

Two important things to remember about PER is that it's per-minute and pace-adjusted. It's a per-minute measure because that allows us to compare, say, Drew Gooden to Donyell Marshall, even though there is a wide disparity in the minutes they played. I also adjust each player's rating for his team's pace, so that players on a slow-paced team like Indiana aren't penalized just because their team's games have fewer possessions than those of a fast-paced team such as Phoenix.

Bear in mind that this rating is not the final, once-and-for-all answer for a player's accomplishments during the season. This is especially true for players such as Bruce Bowen and Trenton Hassell who are defensive specialists but don't get many blocks or steals. What PER can do, however, is summarize a player's statistical accomplishments in a single number. That allows us to unify the disparate data on each player that we try to track in our heads (e.g., Danny Fortson: great rebounder, high-percentage shooter, turnover machine, fouls like crazy, etc.) so that we can move on to evaluating what might be missing from the stats.

I set the league average in PER to 15.00 every season.

Among players who played at least 500 minutes in 2004-05, the highest rating was Kevin Garnett's 28.35. The lowest was Theron Smith's 5.10.

"PER" RANKINGS 2004-05 (minimum: 500 min.)
Top 10 PER Bottom 10 PER
Kevin Garnett 28.35
Tim Duncan 27.13
Shaquille O'Neal 26.95
Amare Stoudemire 26.69
Dirk Nowitzki 26.18
LeBron James 25.75
Andrei Kirilenko 24.45
Kobe Bryant 23.28
Allen Iverson 23.23
Yao Ming 23.22

[schu1213]

s

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
With Shaq and Duncan though...note that I asked this question from today GOING FORWARD. Shaq's productivity has dropped off a lot the past two years...and Duncan's recurring foot injuries aren't getting any better.
This was the only year for Duncan to have this particular type of injury, and he just played through it. This was the first time his foot has been a ligament problem, and it's not a bad problem, just one that needs to be rested.

I had plantar fasciitis when I was working construction right out of HS. It kept hurting the more hours I worked (I was putting in 80-90 hours a week at the time), but when work slowed down and I was scaled back to 35 hours a week it was completely gone within a month or two.

Duncan has the same problems that most big men do, just not as bad. Look at Yao, Shaq, Marcus Camby, Kareem, Ralph Sampson, etc. He'll be great for another 3-4 years.

[schu1213]

Originally posted by Tiger WR
1. Lebron
2. Shaq
3. Timmy D

How do you not have Kobe in the top 3? Shaq and TD cant be in there now, maybe two or 3 years ago but not now. I say Lebron, Kobe, and then Nash with Garnett coming close.

[big daddy russ]

By the way:

1. LeBron
2. Kobe
3. Dwight Howard (best young post in the league)
4. Kevin Garnett (he just turned 30)
5. Timmy D
6. Elton Brand
7. Dirk
8. Chris Bosh
9. Shaun Livingston
10. Emeka Okafor
11. Tracy McGrady
12. Dwayne Wade
13. Gilbert Arenas
14. Chris Paul
15. Yao (is still developing... will never be a David Robinson-type athlete, but WILL eventually dominate games)


And remember this name: Qyntel Woods. He's a free agent with the Knickerbockers. He'll be a good one.

Others considered:
Shawn Marion
Andrew Bogut
Boris Diaw
Allen Iverson
Andrei Kirilenko
Baron Davis
Jason Richardson
Nene Hilario
Carmelo Anthony
Steve Nash
Paul Pierce
Mike Bibby
Vince Carter
Jermaine O'Neal
Ray Allen
Pau Gasol
Zach Randolph
Michael Redd
J.R. Smith

[DaRaiderz]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
And remember this name: Qyntel Woods. He's a free agent with the Knickerbockers. He'll be a good one.

Thats if he can stay away from the funny looking cigarettes. I think he has two drug suspensions on his record. And D Wade 12th????? Probably the lowest Ive seen any human put him on this list.

From today forward, I'd go with...

1. LeBron - obviously to me
2. Kobe - best player in the league now, but going forward, Lebron is far more valuable
3. Dirk - finally getting the press he deserves, and Im not a Mav fan. He's Larry Bird without the passing skills but better going to the rim on the dribble
4. Tim Duncan - one bad year and people start to forget how dominant he can be, and Im not a Spur fan
5. Dwayne Wade - only reason he's not #3 is because I personally value big men more than guards
6. Elton Brand - been great for three years and people finally noticed this year. Averaged 30 and 10 in the Suns series. That kind of points and rebounds average has only been done one other time in a playoff series, EVER...Kareem did it with the Bucks in the 70s. He's made me money in fantasy b-ball 3 years in a row
7. Tracy McGrady - back problems are scary but he is every bit as talented as Dwayne Wade, with a better 3pt shot. Remember how good he was in '05?
8. Amare Stoudamire - again, injury concerns but still very, very young. Remember how good he was in '05?
9. Chris Paul - Stephon Marbury's scoring skills with Steve Nash's court vision and leadership skills.
10. Paul Pierce - just like Elton used to be. Great, but lost on a crappy team. He's only 28 even though most people think he's well over 30.

Howard and Bosh are right their with Pierce at #10 for me.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by DaRaiderz
Thats if he can stay away from the funny looking cigarettes. I think he has two drug suspensions on his record. And D Wade 12th????? Probably the lowest Ive seen any human put him on this list..
You're right, but if he can get on the right team with the right guys, he'll be another T-Mac.

And the only wings I put ahead of Wade were Kobe and LeBron... and LeBron's more of a point forward than an actual wing. I just think it's harder for a wing player to take over a game than it is a post or a PG.

When Shaq and Gary Payton leave, we'll see what he can do. Until then, I'm still a little skeptical of his ability to single-handedly make a team a championship contender.

[Maroon87]

1) Kobe
2) Lebron
3) D Wade
4) Dirk
5) Duncan
6) Elton Brand
7) Billups
8) Arenas
9) Garnett
10) McGrady

[District303aPastPlayer]

can i ask a question. . . was michael jordan made the best player in the league with a great supporting cast of role players, or does everyone think he could have done what he did with the Clippers of the 90s....

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by schu1213
How do you not have Kobe in the top 3? Shaq and TD cant be in there now, maybe two or 3 years ago but not now. I say Lebron, Kobe, and then Nash with Garnett coming close. Kobe is too selfish if I was trying to start a team. A young humble talent like Lebron or veteran leadership from Shaq and Timmy D