National Healthcare

[Bullaholic]

I think the time is long overdue for America to consider adoption of an affordable, dependable, basic national healthcare system. Time to drop the partisan politics and bickering, and listening to the special interest lobbyists. I am an independent businessman who believes very strongly in the free enterprise system, but our private care health system has run amuck, and we must consider a fair, and honest alternative plan for those who cannot afford healthcare. Let everyone pay their "fair" share and let those who can afford selective, private healthcare above the provisions of the national plan be allowed to pay the difference. I hope this thread does not turn into a political debate---there has been enough "blame" levied by both parties for failure to adopt a national healthcare system, that all Americans are "sick" of hearing it and both parties are to blame for the "gridlock" on this issue. It is just not right for some hard working American families to have to deplete their life savings if a loved-one suffers a serious illness. I hope national healthcare is a reality soon for all Americans.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060530/wl_canada_nm/canada_usa_canada_col_1;_ylt=AqZNoDrtmX5.etQa_80a. hiaK8MA;_ylu=X3oDMTA5bGVna3NhBHNlYwNzc3JlbA--

[SintonFan]

No solcialized healthcare! Why do you think all those Canadian nurses work here?

[Bullaholic]

Originally posted by SintonFan
No solcialized healthcare! Why do you think all those Canadian nurses work here?

You were too quick on the "trigger", SF---read info in link above.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
You were too quick on the "trigger", SF---read info in link above.
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Sorry. It's just that socialist stuff makes me jumpy.:doh:

[Blastoderm55]

We've already got socialist tendencies in this country. May as well make healthcare more attainable for the working class.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
We've already got socialist tendencies in this country. May as well make healthcare more attainable for the working class.

this comment scares me.

[Blastoderm55]

What scares you more? Our nation helping the citizens who can't afford healthcare, or our nation building insurmounting debt by waging wars in foreign lands? Hmmmm...

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
What scares you more? Our nation helping the citizens who can't afford healthcare, or our nation building insurmounting debt by waging wars in foreign lands? Hmmmm...

the thought process of your prior comment that I quoted scares me. I wasn't referring to the issues.

[CenTexSports]

I like the Dave Chappell idea. In one of his skits, he was running for President and his platform was guarrenteeing Candian type healthcare. He promised if elected, that everyone would receive a card printed by the US government that was identical to the Canadian insurance card and all the individual had to do was to get across the border to get help.

[44INAROW]

I normally stay out of these kinds of threads, but I just felt like replying to this :D I have a problem with working folks having to choose between having affordable (?) healthcare or food on the table while many of those that CHOOSE not to work but continually spit out babies left and right have free medical coverage GIVEN to them - and that's how I feel....:mad:

[Blastoderm55]

I agree completely. The system currently in place is too easily abused. My point of view is coming from my status as a small business owner/operator, and getting health insurance for myself at an affordable price has been next to impossible so far. I refuse to believe that in this nation, those of us who are the in betweens have to deal with working JUST to have healthcare. It takes away all initiative to better oneself when you're rewarded better by staying home and collecting a welfare check while you and your family are covered by Medicaid.

[Macarthur]

I've worked in healthcare for over 10 years and I believe the time has come for major change.

We have so many issues it's not even funny. We are a very unhealthy country. I think you could take that statistics stated in the article and apply them to most european countries, as well. Our system is broken and it will not be able to sustain itself. I read a statistic not too long ago that you will spend 85% of all the money you ever spend on your health care in the last 3 months of your life. In short, we are spending huge sums of money during the dying cycle and we are only really extending life a few weeks. At some point, we have to decide if that is worth it. In most cultures, people go home and die with dignity with their family. Americans generally don't do that. I could go on and on; there are just so many issues.

One last note, notice we are the only country in the world whose poor people are fat.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by Macarthur
One last note, notice we are the only country in the world whose poor people are fat.

and the rich people are skinny!!!! :thinking:

[Blastoderm55]

Very true. Its a lot cheaper to feed a family with dollar menu fast food than it is to feed that same family with nutritious home cooked meals using fresh ingredients from Whole Foods. With the prevelance of two income families, many don't have a choice simply because there are only so many hours in a day and kids are coming home with more homework at younger ages.

[Aesculus gilmus]

Everybody got on the bandwagon of the so-called "Global War on Terror" after 9-11, not thinking it might well have been rogue elements of our own government that either allowed or even caused it to happen. Some of us saw through it as it was happening. But no one would listen to us. Indeed, we were shouted down as being unpatriotic.

So here we are five years and several trillion more dollars in hock to the Chinese, Japanese and others. We no longer have the luxury of "national healthcare" or other socialistic schemes. All the discretionary money now goes to the "global war" and always will. You have lost control of the political system. There will be no political solution.

Nationalism plus socialism equals Nazism (National Socialism in German). That's where we are. America is going to get it right where Germany failed. That's the attitude.

[CenTexSports]

Once again, I hear the voice of Democratic Socialism. The problem is to get those that have been trained to abuse the system into the workforce and those that flood the system through illegal entry into the country out of the system. Otherwise all we do in move the cost from our company's premium to our tax payment. The same people pay the bill.

Fix the ROOT CAUSE not the result.

[GreenMonster]

Originally posted by Aesculus gilmus
Everybody got on the bandwagon of the so-called "Global War on Terror" after 9-11, not thinking it might well have been rogue elements of our own government that either allowed or even caused it to happen. Some of us saw through it as it was happening. But no one would listen to us. Indeed, we were shouted down as being unpatriotic.

So here we are five years and several trillion more dollars in hock to the Chinese, Japanese and others. We no longer have the luxury of "national healthcare" or other socialistic schemes. All the discretionary money now goes to the "global war" and always will. You have lost control of the political system. There will be no political solution.

Nationalism plus socialism equals Nazism (National Socialism in German). That's where we are. America is going to get it right where Germany failed. That's the attitude.

Amen. Who exactly was it that nominated the US to police the rest of the world anyway? National healthcare on a small scale is a good idea IMO. Small regional free clinics would definitely ease the traffic in the Emergency rooms. The ER in Wichita Falls is always littered with welfare cases with a runny nose simply because these people know that they can't be turned away and must be treated. I watched a man walk in the door with a badly cut hand that was bleeding heavily be asked to "apply direct pressure to the wound and have a seat. We'll be with you just as soon as there is someone available to take down your medical information." I don't understand this. Take the guy back, start working on him and send your information taker into his room with a clipboard for crying out loud, it's not like he's going to be leaving anytime soon.

[spiveyrat]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
Let everyone pay their "fair" share and let those who can afford selective, private healthcare above the provisions of the national plan be allowed to pay the difference.


If this were the case, the "private" healthcare might be less expensive than the "public" healthcare. If the private companies wouldn't have to "absorb" the costs of non-payers, chances are their healthcare would be less expensive. But, that's just one aspect. This is a very compex issue. Medicine companies and lawsuits are also major contributors.

I think giving healthcare over to government is a bad idea. They screw up everything they touch.

[Aesculus gilmus]

Originally posted by spiveyrat
I think giving healthcare over to government is a bad idea. They screw up everything they touch.

I agree with you. So why did everyone agree on going several trillion more in debt to wage a so-called "global war" which will last for "generations"? It is that same government which is in charge of the war. So why is it a good idea? As you say, they screw up everything they touch.

But that decision was made and the U.S. will never be the same. This bogus war will go on forever. We won't be any safer, just poorer (except for the well-connected who make money off war and there are always a lot of those types).

Texas' medical costs really cannot be blamed on lawyers anymore. The voters passed a constitutional amendment severely limiting damages one can recover from doctors and hospitals. That election occurred in 2003, I think.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Aesculus gilmus
I agree with you. So why did everyone agree on going several trillion more in debt to wage a so-called "global war" which will last for "generations"? It is that same government which is in charge of the war. So why is it a good idea? As you say, they screw up everything they touch.

But that decision was made and the U.S. will never be the same. This bogus war will go on forever. We won't be any safer, just poorer (except for the well-connected who make money off war and there are always a lot of those types).

Texas' medical costs really cannot be blamed on lawyers anymore. The voters passed a constitutional amendment severely limiting damages one can recover from doctors and hospitals. That election occurred in 2003, I think.
.
Why does it seem like everytime someone even mentions government or anything close to it you bring up the war in Iraq! What makes you so unique that you have to constantly, endlessly bring up the same thing again over and over again...:mad:

[PPHSfan]

I think I would support a federal health-care plan before I would support federal health care. If the government wanted to offer me health insurance at an affordable rate I would gladly pay the premiums. I own a medium sized business, and health-care insurance is second only to workers comp. when it comes to me writing big checks every month. I personally pay around eight hundred bucks a month just for my family. I don't know about most of you, but it seems unfair that I pay that much just because I am not "employeed".

[wedo]

A friend of my is 20 and she has no insurance at all!! Before she turned 18 she was on medicaide!! At that was because her mom was a divorced single mom with no college degree!! Her mom worked her a$$ off for what they had with 4 girls!!! So i hate it when people say that Medicaide and WIC is stupid not everyone abuses the system!!! B/c she has 4 little sisters that are all under 18, its not her moms fault that she got divorced!!! Know my friend is in college working at Wal-Mart trying to get by without any insurance!! she has was sick a few months ago and had to go to the doctor, and that bill was crazy!!! So i think that we need more affordable healthcare for sure!!!

[SintonFan]

We were paying $1500 a month for just three employees. I know exactly what folks are concerned about.
Frankly, health insurance wasn't even affordable until the 50's. Before that only the wealthiest could afford it. When the 50's came around employers started to offer it to lure qualified employees to work for them. I'm not sure what the percentage of folks who had health insurance was back then was but it has risen every decade until now most people have it.
The actual fact that most have health insurance has helped to drive up cost. In essence we are paying a middle man to pay our hospitals and doctors. If more folks would have opted for catastrophic coverage(which is what many of would agree is the main reason we had it back some 10 years or so, since doctor's visit costs and prescription drug coverage was cheaper.) Until recently, paying for your doctors out of pocket was much more economically feasable as a business owner. It's become less that way now as the per visit cost has skyrocketed.
This I'm sure is gonna bring a whole ton of grief my way, but heck, so be it.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
I think the time is long overdue for America to consider adoption of an affordable, dependable, basic national healthcare system. Time to drop the partisan politics and bickering, and listening to the special interest lobbyists. I am an independent businessman who believes very strongly in the free enterprise system, but our private care health system has run amuck, and we must consider a fair, and honest alternative plan for those who cannot afford healthcare. Let everyone pay their "fair" share and let those who can afford selective, private healthcare above the provisions of the national plan be allowed to pay the difference. I hope this thread does not turn into a political debate---there has been enough "blame" levied by both parties for failure to adopt a national healthcare system, that all Americans are "sick" of hearing it and both parties are to blame for the "gridlock" on this issue. It is just not right for some hard working American families to have to deplete their life savings if a loved-one suffers a serious illness. I hope national healthcare is a reality soon for all Americans.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060530/wl_canada_nm/canada_usa_canada_col_1;_ylt=AqZNoDrtmX5.etQa_80a. hiaK8MA;_ylu=X3oDMTA5bGVna3NhBHNlYwNzc3JlbA--
.
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Oooooh, Canada must have a better health-care system because of their Socialized health-care system. The report forgot to mention that Canadians have to wait for several months JUST TO SEE THEIR DOCTOR!
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I also found suspect these parts of the article:

The researchers analyzed data from a telephone survey of 3,505 Canadian and 5,103 U.S. adults.

The researchers said the study population was representative of 206 million U.S. adults and 24 million Canadian adults but noted that only half the Americans contacted took part in the survey, and 60 percent of the Canadians.
.
Goodness, prop up ALL the junk science... please...:hand:

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Yes, we do need a uniformed system of healthcare in our country, and we need to make better decisions on what our country spends its money on. We can't go throwing our money away on wars that are not ours and giving tax breaks to the wealthy and then expect to keep borrowing it from Japan and China.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Yes, we do need a uniformed system of healthcare in our country, and we need to make better decisions on what our country spends its money on. We can't go throwing our money away on wars that are not ours and giving tax breaks to the wealthy and then expect to keep borrowing it from Japan and China.
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So are you saying that our nurses uniforms are not adequate?
Don't answer, it's rhetoric...

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
So are you saying that our nurses uniforms are not adequate?
Don't answer, it's rhetoric...

Well, I've seen a few where they would have looked better off of them, but that's just me...:D

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Well, I've seen a few where they would have looked better off of them, but that's just me...:D
.
:eek:
I bet they were Canadian!:p

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
:eek:
I bet they were Canadian!:p

Well, I wasn't really concerned with where they came from, I was too busy enjoying the view and hoping for a better one. ;)

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
.
Oooooh, Canada must have a better health-care system because of their Socialized health-care system. The report forgot to mention that Canadians have to wait for several months JUST TO SEE THEIR DOCTOR!
.
I also found suspect these parts of the article:


.
Goodness, prop up ALL the junk science... please...:hand:

See I missed SintonFan's blind faith in our current government and the propoganda he spews. Glad I am back so I can have my daily laugh:D :D :D

Did you read that book? You know...the slow read...

[SintonFan]

Come on now...
did you REALLY read "Men in Black"?:eek: :p
I read it and you need to give me proof you did. Besides, even watching, much less reading Al Franken lowers one's IQ(lol "the slow read").:nerd:

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by rockdale80
See I missed SintonFan's blind faith in our current government and the propoganda he spews. Glad I am back so I can have my daily laugh:D :D :D

Did you read that book? You know...the slow read...
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Where do I spew propaganda?
Can you tell me how long it takes for Canadians to get an office visit on average? Several months from the time they first call. Of course you would have an envious position in regards to Canada as they are pretty darn Socialists(ack ack Communist in my book... what's the difference)...:rolleyes: :p :hand:

[Aesculus gilmus]

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
Why does it seem like everytime someone even mentions government or anything close to it you bring up the war in Iraq! What makes you so unique that you have to constantly, endlessly bring up the same thing again over and over again...:mad:

I don't think I have used the word "Iraq" here; you did. What they declared after 9/11 was "Global War on Terror" to last possibly for the next 100 years, as someone (I think Rumsfeld) said during that era. Iraq had nothing to do with that. It was a sideshow. Cheney and others thought Iraq would be over within a few weeks. It was to be a "cakewalk."

"Global war" costs more money than you have. The government has no money. It must either get the money from you or borrow it from others either in this country or overseas. In recent years, more and more of the borrowed funds are coming from Asia. It will be up to future generations now in high school and younger to pay this back with interest or, should we default on the debt, to live in a Third World economy.

The government establishes priorities. Its priority is "global war"; not your healthcare costs. And another sad fact is that you have lost control of the political system. I am pretty sure you never would have voted for anyone other than those in power already, but even if you had that idea, it wouldn't matter. The elections are rigged. The corporate controllers own the voting machines and the source code. All it takes is a cell phone call to flip hundreds of thousands of votes from one candidate to the other. There is no paper trail anymore. I remember when Diebold first put in an ATM machine at my bank 25 years ago or so. When you withdrew money from it, it gave you a receipt for your records. Diebold now makes touchscreen voting machines, but you get no receipt on how you voted. No paper trail. Makes it easier to steal elections without a trace.

[spiveyrat]

Originally posted by Aesculus gilmus
Diebold now makes touchscreen voting machines, but you get no receipt on how you voted. No paper trail. Makes it easier to steal elections without a trace.

That's a good idea. I've never thought of that. I think we should get receipts from computerized voting machines. I wouldn't go so far as to say the elections are rigged. But giving voters receipts would be somewhat of a deterrant to rigging elections, if anyone was ever so inclined.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
.
Oooooh, Canada must have a better health-care system because of their Socialized health-care system. The report forgot to mention that Canadians have to wait for several months JUST TO SEE THEIR DOCTOR!
.
I also found suspect these parts of the article:


.
Goodness, prop up ALL the junk science... please...:hand:

You can continue to stick you head in the sand and say everything is okay and we have the greatest healthcare system in the world. Now that's the biggest lie ever told.

We have great healthcare for people with money.

BTW, sometimes people in this country have to wait weeks or even months to see specialists. I think Canadians wait to see doctors has been overblown and has more to do with where they live and the availablility of doctors in their area.

[PPHSfan]

People with money SHOULD have great healthcare.:D If it weren't for people with money this country would fall.

[Blastoderm55]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
People with money SHOULD have great healthcare.:D If it weren't for people with money this country would fall.

That's funny. Currently, its the people with money who are causing this country to fall. Go figure.

[cdlvj]

Just the other day, was at the local Walmart pharmacy. Several senior citizens and others in line each paying their co-pay or more to get their medicines.

Then this well dressed individual gets his turn and they hand him his medicine, and he pays nothing.

What is wrong with this picture, as out of all the customers, he is one that can well afford to pay the co-pays.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
People with money SHOULD have great healthcare.:D If it weren't for people with money this country would fall.

I'm not sure how to take this. Can you elaborate?

[cdlvj]

Originally posted by Macarthur
I'm not sure how to take this. Can you elaborate?

I agree Mac, It is like some 4% of US population owns over 60+% of the wealth. Thats why the economy is so out of kilter, no one else has any money.

Oh the economy is great, yeah for the haves and have mores.

[spiveyrat]

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
That's funny. Currently, its the people with money who are causing this country to fall. Go figure.

Without people with money, you have no employers. No employers = no jobs. People "with money" aren't evil. :eek:

[Blastoderm55]

Originally posted by spiveyrat
Without people with money, you have no employers. No employers = no jobs. People "with money" aren't evil. :eek:

There's a difference between rewarding entrepreneurs for their risks and allowing corporations to rob its employees blind. Enron anyone? I firmly believe that their is only so much that each person needs. I realize that comes off as a somewhat socialist and perhaps even communist idea, but I think things would be way better if the desparity between those at the top and those at the bottom (note the rapidly disappearing middle class) wasn't so great.

[spiveyrat]

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
There's a difference between rewarding entrepreneurs for their risks and allowing corporations to rob its employees blind. Enron anyone? I firmly believe that their is only so much that each person needs. I realize that comes off as a somewhat socialist and perhaps even communist idea, but I think things would be way better if the desparity between those at the top and those at the bottom (note the rapidly disappearing middle class) wasn't so great.

Is every large company like Enron?

Yes, that is socialist/communist thinking. Thank God for Capitalism!

[Blastoderm55]

Originally posted by spiveyrat
Is every large company like Enron?

Yes, that is socialist/communist thinking. Thank God for Capitalism!

Well, if its evil to want the best for my family and everyone else, then bring on the devil horns baby. I'm not talking entitlements. I'm talking opportunities gained through persistance and hard work. THAT is capitalism. An endless caste system where money passes through generation after generation while those outside the money remain without it? That is feudalism, and that is the track our nation is on.

[Blastoderm55]

Oh, and there are currently enough former corporate execuitives behind bars to classify them as a prison gang. Its safe to say that many companies are just like Enron.

[wedo]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
People with money SHOULD have great healthcare.:D If it weren't for people with money this country would fall.

Money=Greed= Evil !!!!1

[spiveyrat]

Opportunity is out there for anyone to grab.

[spiveyrat]

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
Oh, and there are currently enough former corporate execuitives behind bars to classify them as a prison gang. Its safe to say that many companies are just like Enron.

I didn't say there weren't others out there. But the majority do things legally because there are incentives not to engage in criminal activity i.e. those of which you speak.

[Bandera YaYa]

Originally posted by wedo
A friend of my is 20 and she has no insurance at all!! Before she turned 18 she was on medicaide!! At that was because her mom was a divorced single mom with no college degree!! Her mom worked her a$$ off for what they had with 4 girls!!! So i hate it when people say that Medicaide and WIC is stupid not everyone abuses the system!!! B/c she has 4 little sisters that are all under 18, its not her moms fault that she got divorced!!! Know my friend is in college working at Wal-Mart trying to get by without any insurance!! she has was sick a few months ago and had to go to the doctor, and that bill was crazy!!! So i think that we need more affordable healthcare for sure!!! You kids stay in school and get a degree and get a good paying job that provides insurance for you and your future families. AND just where is the father of all these kids.....sounds like he dumped his kids as well as his wife! As a single parent having raised two girls, it is hard but you gotta get a good paying job.....flipping burgers won't cut it. Pleading ignorance isn't a reason for a free ride. You gotta take care of yourselves, cuz you can't depend of the gov't to bail you out and you shouldn't anyways. The welfare etc., systems are all abused and messed up. I know it really helps some in desperate need, but you still have to plan for taking care of yourself! I pay over $700 a month for insurance on me and my girls. I hate it but I know it's something I have to do. Just wanting to say, get your education above all!! (Why doesn't she have insurance with Wal-Mart??) :)

[Blastoderm55]

Wal-Mart, as with other employers, don't have to give benefits to people classified as part time. The person in question is a student, so probably is on schedule for anywhere between 10-20 hours a week. Thanks to determination, she'll probably pickup an extra shift or two and stay late a few times a week, but she'll still be thought of as a part timer so long as they keep her restricted to no more than 40 hours in any single department.

And with the announcement of the slashing of student aid, along with raising of the interest rate on loans, going to college is becoming more and more difficult. The ones who manage it are the rich, and those who sacrifice their life in the military.

[Blastoderm55]

Originally posted by spiveyrat
I didn't say there weren't others out there. But the majority do things legally because there are incentives not to engage in criminal activity i.e. those of which you speak.

Like the ones who hire illegals to do slave labor? Or do you speak of the ones who hire slick lobbyists to pedal their influence over Capitol Hill?

[Bandera YaYa]

Originally posted by cdlvj
Just the other day, was at the local Walmart pharmacy. Several senior citizens and others in line each paying their co-pay or more to get their medicines.

Then this well dressed individual gets his turn and they hand him his medicine, and he pays nothing.

What is wrong with this picture, as out of all the customers, he is one that can well afford to pay the co-pays. So what do you mean.....how do you think his was paid for?? Are you trying to imply simply because he was well dressed, he got it free???? I didnt know there was some fancy insurance for the rich that allowed them to get it for free?? :confused: :confused:

[Blastoderm55]

He probably had a credit card on file. That or it was one of the Waltons. :p

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by spiveyrat
Opportunity is out there for anyone to grab.

Opportunity is out there for those who have money. You can't start up a business without money. You can have an idea, but if you don't have the money to invest in your idea, then you have nothing. It is like trying to run for office, you have to have money to get your name out there, if you don't, then you might as well not even try to run. You said the people with the money aren't evil, but sure they are. Look at the oil companies, they buy up all of the smaller companies and monopolize on the market because they can. There is no shortage of oil, just a shortage of companies. Look at all of the companies who are outsourcing American jobs to other nations and then importing the products back in because it is cheaper and creates a larger profit. Look at the companies, such as Alcoa, who are trying to take away retirement employee benefits because "it is too expensive" even though there are thousands of retirees who spent their entire life making that company billions of dollars. Don't even try to say that large companies aren't greedy, they're not going to do any of the working men and women of America any favors, the number one goal is getting more and more money, and you are stupid if you think otherwise.

[Bullaholic]

Before we get too carried away on the "rich vs poor" argument, it may be good to draw on a little historical reference for perspective's sake. I am not saying that any of you embrace the ideas expressed in the following, but similar thoughts have been stated. We must be careful when drawing conclusions about the "evils" of the American society and try not to "lash out" in frustration, but rather try to change things within our system, which is, even with it's flaws, the greatest economic engine in the history of mankind.

http://www.anu.edu.au/polsci/marx/classics/manifesto.html

[Bandera YaYa]

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
Wal-Mart, as with other employers, don't have to give benefits to people classified as part time. The person in question is a student, so probably is on schedule for anywhere between 10-20 hours a week. Thanks to determination, she'll probably pickup an extra shift or two and stay late a few times a week, but she'll still be thought of as a part timer so long as they keep her restricted to no more than 40 hours in any single department.

And with the announcement of the slashing of student aid, along with raising of the interest rate on loans, going to college is becoming more and more difficult. The ones who manage it are the rich, and those who sacrifice their life in the military. My friend also works part time with Walmart and she takes advantage of their insurance program. So I am confused here. I know juggling school and work is hard, I have a daughter who does that too. But it can be done, millions do it. You say" thanks to her determination"...well she should be determined, as it is her life and for her future. Just don't play the victim card here, everyone has choices to make...and it does sound like she is choosing well. She doesn't want to end up in the situation like her mom found herself in. Really, good for her. Tell her to keep on working hard....for her future. College can be very difficult to attend....but thank goodness for the "rich people" who give money to colleges so they can exist and can give grants to those who need them. Let's not bite the hand that does feed us in some ways.

[wedo]

Originally posted by Bandera YaYa
You kids stay in school and get a degree and get a good paying job that provides insurance for you and your future families. AND just where is the father of all these kids.....sounds like he dumped his kids as well as his wife! As a single parent having raised two girls, it is hard but you gotta get a good paying job.....flipping burgers won't cut it. Pleading ignorance isn't a reason for a free ride. You gotta take care of yourselves, cuz you can't depend of the gov't to bail you out and you shouldn't anyways. The welfare etc., systems are all abused and messed up. I know it really helps some in desperate need, but you still have to plan for taking care of yourself! I pay over $700 a month for insurance on me and my girls. I hate it but I know it's something I have to do. Just wanting to say, get your education above all!! (Why doesn't she have insurance with Wal-Mart??) :)

Her mom did end up going back to school and got her CNA!!! But the nursing home where she works takes to much out of her check if she had the insurance. then she would be able to pay all of her bills by herself!!! She has Medicaid for her kids only, she has no insurance. My friend was taking 16 credit hours in school, so that means she couldn't go to work until around 3 everyday and stay till 11 just about 5 days a week, she is working around 35 hours a week and you can't get benefits unless you work 40 or more!!!

[spiveyrat]

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
Like the ones who hire illegals to do slave labor? Or do you speak of the ones who hire slick lobbyists to pedal their influence over Capitol Hill?

Huh? :thinking:

[spiveyrat]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Opportunity is out there for those who have money. You can't start up a business without money. You can have an idea, but if you don't have the money to invest in your idea, then you have nothing. It is like trying to run for office, you have to have money to get your name out there, if you don't, then you might as well not even try to run. You said the people with the money aren't evil, but sure they are. Look at the oil companies, they buy up all of the smaller companies and monopolize on the market because they can. There is no shortage of oil, just a shortage of companies. Look at all of the companies who are outsourcing American jobs to other nations and then importing the products back in because it is cheaper and creates a larger profit. Look at the companies, such as Alcoa, who are trying to take away retirement employee benefits because "it is too expensive" even though there are thousands of retirees who spent their entire life making that company billions of dollars. Don't even try to say that large companies aren't greedy, they're not going to do any of the working men and women of America any favors, the number one goal is getting more and more money, and you are stupid if you think otherwise.

I don't have time to respond to this except to say that's BS. You liberal thinking people think the whole world is out to get you. You can't live your life forever being the victim. You can choose to say there is no opportunity or you can choose to try to do something about your situation. Just as you can choose to be grumpy or you can choose to be happy. Yaya's first comment into this thread is right on. Amen sister-friend! :thumbsup:

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by spiveyrat
I don't have time to respond to this except to say that's BS. You liberal thinking people think the whole world is out to get you. You can't live your life forever being the victim. You can choose to say there is no opportunity or you can choose to try to do something about your situation. Just as you can choose to be grumpy or you can choose to be happy. Yaya's first comment into this thread is right on. Amen sister-friend! :thumbsup:
No, what is BS is a hard working American citizen working all of their life trying to make something of themselves and their family and have large companies try to hold them down. You can't say for a second that the people with the money are trying to better the situation of those that have none, they are only trying to get more for themselves by using the sweat and blood of those who work for them.

[Bandera YaYa]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Opportunity is out there for those who have money. You can't start up a business without money. You can have an idea, but if you don't have the money to invest in your idea, then you have nothing. It is like trying to run for office, you have to have money to get your name out there, if you don't, then you might as well not even try to run. You said the people with the money aren't evil, but sure they are. Look at the oil companies, they buy up all of the smaller companies and monopolize on the market because they can. There is no shortage of oil, just a shortage of companies. Look at all of the companies who are outsourcing American jobs to other nations and then importing the products back in because it is cheaper and creates a larger profit. Look at the companies, such as Alcoa, who are trying to take away retirement employee benefits because "it is too expensive" even though there are thousands of retirees who spent their entire life making that company billions of dollars. Don't even try to say that large companies aren't greedy, they're not going to do any of the working men and women of America any favors, the number one goal is getting more and more money, and you are stupid if you think otherwise. Well with that kind of thinking, you are doomed to fail.....might as well just give up and head down to the welfare office. Opportunity IS there for everyone. It's what our country was molded on. I'm not saying doing what you want will be easy or without trials........Yes you need money to start up a business, but you can earn that money, might take you many years, but hard work and determination usually pays off. You are young. You're hopes and dreams won't come true over nite. I have heard so many young people say what you just did......but you gotta earn your way.....you can' t just sit there in High school and play that card.....you haven't experienced life yet and you haven't worked towards your dream.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Bandera YaYa
Well with that kind of thinking, you are doomed to fail.....might as well just give up and head down to the welfare office. Opportunity IS there for everyone. It's what our country was molded on. I'm not saying doing what you want will be easy or without trials........Yes you need money to start up a business, but you can earn that money, might take you many years, but hard work and determination usually pays off. You are young. You're hopes and dreams won't come true over nite. I have heard so many young people say what you just did......but you gotta earn your way.....you can' t just sit there in High school and play that card.....you haven't experienced life yet and you haven't worked towards your dream.

Don't even begin to act like you know me. I have been working towards my dream for the past 6 years, and I will make something of myself, because my father has been working all of his life to give me the opportunity that he didn't have. I am well aware what our country was molded upon, and it was not molded upon the greed and corruption that our country faces today. I'm not going to sit back and squander the opportunity that my father has worked so hard to give me. You have no right to judge me or act like you know me, because you don't.

[spiveyrat]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
No, what is BS is a hard working American citizen working all of their life trying to make something of themselves and their family and have large companies try to hold them down. You can't say for a second that the people with the money are trying to better the situation of those that have none, they are only trying to get more for themselves by using the sweat and blood of those who work for them.

You're always all lemons and no lemonade. And with an attitude like that you have the potential of being the oppressed victim all your life. :( If you have always been among the less fortunate, I am sorry. But there is opportunity in this country to better your situation. It is all dependent on whether you have the drive to take a swing at it.

[Macarthur]

Gosh, I'm not sure where to go after some of these posts.

First, I don't think many here want socialism. I also chuckle with some of the "pure capitalist" on here thinking that Capitalism is the holy grail. Unabridged Capitalism will lead to Enron. There has to be checks and balances. The profit motive unchecked will always take advantage of people.

As with all these posts, on both sides, the truth lies somewhere in between. It does take money to make money. However, there is much more opportunity here than anywhere else in the world. Having said that, it is very difficult for someone to break their socio-economic caste, if you will, very difficult.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Macarthur
You can continue to stick you head in the sand and say everything is okay and we have the greatest healthcare system in the world. Now that's the biggest lie ever told.

We have great healthcare for people with money.

BTW, sometimes people in this country have to wait weeks or even months to see specialists. I think Canadians wait to see doctors has been overblown and has more to do with where they live and the availablility of doctors in their area.
.
Can you tell me where I said we have the greatest healthcare system in the world? Where did I say that? Where?
I'd appreciate you not putting words in my er keyboard.
But Canada is not really as great as you all would make it out to be. It is socialized healthcare. This should not even be considered for us. Have you ever heard of anything, besides our military, that the government can do better and cheaper than the private sector can do? The government is NOT the answer as that would actually either drive up the cost of healthcare or force doctors to take a huge paycut, which would in essence lead to a loss of quality of healthcare.
Again where did I say we have the greastest healthcare system in the world?:confused: :hand:

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Macarthur
Gosh, I'm not sure where to go after some of these posts.

First, I don't think many here want socialism. I also chuckle with some of the "pure capitalist" on here thinking that Capitalism is the holy grail. Unabridged Capitalism will lead to Enron. There has to be checks and balances. The profit motive unchecked will always take advantage of people.

As with all these posts, on both sides, the truth lies somewhere in between. It does take money to make money. However, there is much more opportunity here than anywhere else in the world. Having said that, it is very difficult for someone to break their socio-economic caste, if you will, very difficult.
.
You just said it was difficult for someone to break their socio-economic caste(you should had said status), but is it impossible? I think not. It's very possible but it takes drive and determination...
I started my own business with $1500 out of pocket, It doesn't take much money at all.:hand:

[SintonFan]

And just so you you know?
I do believe we have the best healthcare system in the world.:p :inlove:

[cdlvj]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Opportunity is out there for those who have money. You can't start up a business without money. You can have an idea, but if you don't have the money to invest in your idea, then you have nothing. It is like trying to run for office, you have to have money to get your name out there, if you don't, then you might as well not even try to run. You said the people with the money aren't evil, but sure they are. Look at the oil companies, they buy up all of the smaller companies and monopolize on the market because they can. There is no shortage of oil, just a shortage of companies. Look at all of the companies who are outsourcing American jobs to other nations and then importing the products back in because it is cheaper and creates a larger profit. Look at the companies, such as Alcoa, who are trying to take away retirement employee benefits because "it is too expensive" even though there are thousands of retirees who spent their entire life making that company billions of dollars. Don't even try to say that large companies aren't greedy, they're not going to do any of the working men and women of America any favors, the number one goal is getting more and more money, and you are stupid if you think otherwise.

And if you have a great idea, before you can even get it going, it will be stolen. Case in point the DVR's.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by cdlvj
And if you have a great idea, before you can even get it going, it will be stolen. Case in point the DVR's.
.
The communist Chinese steal everything. I always wondered where my socks would disappear to in the washing machine ...
then I found a deep hole behind it leading to China.:p

[pirate44]

health is good. i like health

[Blastoderm55]

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
The communist Chinese steal everything. I always wondered where my socks would disappear to in the washing machine ...
then I found a deep hole behind it leading to China.:p

Dawn those wascawee wabbits!

[Blastoderm55]

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
You just said it was difficult for someone to break their socio-economic caste(you should had said status), but is it impossible? I think not. It's very possible but it takes drive and determination...
I started my own business with $1500 out of pocket, It doesn't take much money at all.:hand:

What kind of business? Mine (RTO) takes about $1500 just to gain one account and turn a profit in two years. :doh:

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by SintonFan
And just so you you know?
I do believe we have the best healthcare system in the world.:p :inlove: That might be true, but it isn't saying much. :p :D :D

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
What kind of business? Mine (RTO) takes about $1500 just to gain one account and turn a profit in two years. :doh:
.
Some bizzez take more money the others. Ehh... what can you do?

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by SintonFan
And just so you you know?
I do believe we have the best healthcare system in the world.:p :inlove:

If by the best you mean we have the most innovative, highly skilled workers and desired outcomes, then I would agree with you. The problem is that the vast majority of Americans do not have access to this.


If I could give some suggested reading material:

Critical Condition : How Health Care in America Became Big Business--and Bad Medicine

by Donald L. Barlett, James B. Steele

[spiveyrat]

Originally posted by Macarthur
If by the best you mean we have the most innovative, highly skilled workers and desired outcomes, then I would agree with you. The problem is that the vast majority of Americans do not have access to this.


If I could give some suggested reading material:

Critical Condition : How Health Care in America Became Big Business--and Bad Medicine

by Donald L. Barlett, James B. Steele

I'll bet that is an interesting read.

Do you really mean the "vast majority"? I'd have a hard time believing that. In fact, I'd have a hard time believing half.

[Blastoderm55]

I don't have much healthcare. I'd have to cut my company's budget for alarm, electricity, and CPA services if I wanted to add it as an expense. If I cover it all myself, I'll never get out of personal credit card debt. The only coverage I have is a plan through Qualified Health that will pay me if I ever get a bullet in the butt or stay in the ER for a week. Too bad they don't offer vision or dental.

[PPHSfan]

Money and opportunity are not just for the wealthy. They are just for the people who are willing to take risks and work hard. Those without, always complain about those that have. I can show anyone in the world how to acquire wealth, starting with nothing but hard work and desire. The problem is most people don't realize just how HARD the wealthy work.

[wedo]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
Money and opportunity are not just for the wealthy. They are just for the people who are willing to take risks and work hard. Those without, always complain about those that have. I can show anyone in the world how to acquire wealth, starting with nothing but hard work and desire. The problem is most people don't realize just how HARD the wealthy work.

I don't doubt that the wealthy work hard but they do have more oppurtunity!! A kid that goes to college and has their parents pay every cent of tuition, books and pays for them to live in apartment. Has a better chance of finishing college than someone that has to work 30-40 hour a week and school and the same time and when you do this its very hard to be a full-time student!!And if your not a full time student 12 credit hours or more then you do not recieve finacially aid!! And the result is school is too exspensive and most drop out!!

i know it can be done with hard work believe me!! Iam doing it right now its hard!!! Im lucky that i have a father that is willing to sacrafice for me!!! I know what is like to work i am 20 and im have been working since i was 15!! My first job was at a welding shop and now i am determined to finish school so i don't have to work like that again!! But for some people they don't have their parents that can finacially help them finish school!!!!

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Opportunity is out there for those who have money. You can't start up a business without money.
Please come talk to our CEO sometime. You might just be surprised what a person can do with no money. He and the partners graduated college, lived on mayo & cheese sandwiches and at least a couple slept in the offices for a while....with no employees but themselves. Roughly 36 years later, our company is kicking butt and taking names. And from what I know, none of them grew up rich. Heck, the CEO graduated from Brownwood.

I haven't read but about half the thread, but IMO, affordable healthcare should be available to people. Not everyone has the type profession or job that provides insurance, or insurance at a reasonable rate. I'm lucky, in that my employer covers the cost of the employee's premium and the rates for dependants are very affordable.

[rockdale80]

ON INSURANCE

Well that was a long read and since everyone else has tossed in their two cents I will throw in mine. Just because the medical system here is the best in the world does not mean there is no room for improvement. The way rates are rising and the policies offered makes it hard for someone that barely makes ends meet provide coverage for their family. I work for a small company that offers me coverage and it is relatively affordable for me, but the plan is not very comprehensive and does not include dental or vision. I think for the amount of money I pay for it that it could be more comprehensive, and if I were married or had children it would almost triple when they were added to my plan. This would make it VERY unaffordable for me. Many insurance providers make it a very big hassle for anyone to actually use their policy and it isn't always the easiest thing to have surgery because of all the red tape they make you cut to use a policy YOU pay for.

ON CORPORATIONS

Sure corporations arent evil. They do provide jobs for plenty of americans and without them the poverty level would sky rocket and this country would not be what it is today. There is a point when it is not all about the money though. Many companies are laying off people at an alarming rate due to outsourcing of jobs, new technology, and a growing immigration problem. This means those middle class americans are no longer the back bone of the company many spent their entire lives helping build. How is that fair to anyone? It may not be to purposly keep anyone down, but it does not help anyone up either. I think there should be certain protections for employees that give day in and day out of their lives to a company that they cannot be as indespensible as scrap paper. I think you should be atleast guaranteed that your retirement can never be taken away...under any circumstances. Call me crazy for believing that, but think about where you would be if yours was taken away.

ON COLLEGE

I am 25 and work my way through school. Sure I should probably be out, and it is not entirely because of the cost that I am not. The cost ,however, is the biggest reason. I typically work 60 hours a week so I can afford to take 9-12 hours of school a semester. Sometimes I cant afford it so I take less. I am not complaining about what I do to make my way through and I will have more opportunities when I am finished. But since I have been in college they have taught the same classes and have the same requirements as before, and the price my the first semester at 16 hours was $1450 and the cost for 16 hours now is about $3800. What changed? NOTHING but the cost of someone trying to better themselves.

The underlying point of all of this is that from businesses to college to insurance you dont get what you pay for anymore. It seems like everything is based on the bottom dollar and no longer about the employees that work only to be laid off for cheaper labor or have their retirement taken away, or the insurance policy holder to pay in only to hassled when they actually need it and have their rates continue to increase, or the college student that can barely afford to pay tuition only for it to continue to rise. Say what you want but if you walked a mile in my shoes you would understand why I see things the way I do. Everything is about cutting costs and increasing profit, and whoever it hurts is a small price to pay to pad someone else's pockets.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
Money and opportunity are not just for the wealthy. They are just for the people who are willing to take risks and work hard. Those without, always complain about those that have. I can show anyone in the world how to acquire wealth, starting with nothing but hard work and desire. The problem is most people don't realize just how HARD the wealthy work.

Listen here, if you think that your work is hard, why don't you trade jobs with a man who builds fence for a living, or does other various jobs of equal difficulty and can never get anywhere in the world. You think the way you have it is hard? I laugh at you, greed has already consumed you. You think that just because you are successful then it means that everyone else can be, but not everyone else has had the same opportunity to succeed as you have, but there are certainly people out there who are willing to sacrifice and work to make it somewhere in the world and are running towards a dead end. I would love more than anything to see the CEO of Alcoa to go out and build a mile of fence in a day. I know that it took a lot of work for the people that run the companies to get to where they are, but you can never convince me that sitting in an office with air conditioning and padded leather seats is more physically taxing than going out and doing an honest days work. The people that go out and build this country are just as important to our nation as those who sit at the top of companies as well. The "little men" are who make everything click, the man or woman in the office can make the decisions, but the men and women working at the bottom of the totem pole are the ones who really keep the company going. I don't think that it is right for the people at the top to crap on the working class just to make a quick buck, but that's just me.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Listen here, if you think that your work is hard, why don't you trade jobs with a man who builds fence for a living, or does other various jobs of equal difficulty and can never get anywhere in the world. You think the way you have it is hard? I laugh at you, greed has already consumed you. You think that just because you are successful then it means that everyone else can be, but not everyone else has had the same opportunity to succeed as you have, but there are certainly people out there who are willing to sacrifice and work to make it somewhere in the world and are running towards a dead end. I would love more than anything to see the CEO of Alcoa to go out and build a mile of fence in a day. I know that it took a lot of work for the people that run the companies to get to where they are, but you can never convince me that sitting in an office with air conditioning and padded leather seats is more physically taxing than going out and doing an honest days work. The people that go out and build this country are just as important to our nation as those who sit at the top of companies as well. The "little men" are who make everything click, the man or woman in the office can make the decisions, but the men and women working at the bottom of the totem pole are the ones who really keep the company going. I don't think that it is right for the people at the top to crap on the working class just to make a quick buck, but that's just me. lol...18

[sinfan75]

You act like building fences is a poor mns job. I know a few people who started out building fences and ended up starting their own fence building companies. One of went on to starting up an oilfield construction company because of his successful fence company. Actually starting up a fence company is fairly cheap compared to starting up other forms of business.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by sinfan75
You act like building fences is a poor mns job. I know a few people who started out building fences and ended up starting their own fence building companies. One of went on to starting up an oilfield construction company because of his successful fence company. Actually starting up a fence company is fairly cheap compared to starting up other forms of business.
I never said or thought that it was a poor man's job, I think that it is a working man's job, the real men who make this country work, not the paper pushing managers who tell people to do the job, these are the real people who go out and get their hands dirty and sweat for a living.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Listen here, if you think that your work is hard, why don't you trade jobs with a man who builds fence for a living, or does other various jobs of equal difficulty and can never get anywhere in the world. You think the way you have it is hard? I laugh at you, greed has already consumed you. You think that just because you are successful then it means that everyone else can be, but not everyone else has had the same opportunity to succeed as you have, but there are certainly people out there who are willing to sacrifice and work to make it somewhere in the world and are running towards a dead end. I would love more than anything to see the CEO of Alcoa to go out and build a mile of fence in a day. I know that it took a lot of work for the people that run the companies to get to where they are, but you can never convince me that sitting in an office with air conditioning and padded leather seats is more physically taxing than going out and doing an honest days work. The people that go out and build this country are just as important to our nation as those who sit at the top of companies as well. The "little men" are who make everything click, the man or woman in the office can make the decisions, but the men and women working at the bottom of the totem pole are the ones who really keep the company going. I don't think that it is right for the people at the top to crap on the working class just to make a quick buck, but that's just me.
.
Stop with the class war speech. It's not American and is one of the tenets of the communist manifesto. And yes, in this country, that is STILL a bad word.:hairpunk:

[Blastoderm55]

Its only a bad word because a communist economy is currently whipping our butts on the world stage. We won't survive trying to outspend them this time around. They already own most of our debt. :doh:

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
Its only a bad word because a communist economy is currently whipping our butts on the world stage. We won't survive trying to outspend them this time around. They already own most of our debt. :doh:
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It's a bad word because it is inherently evil and abolishes all unalienable rights, including the right to own property.
Please tell me you're not for communism?:confused:

[Blastoderm55]

Communism? Me? No.

I would like more equality on our individual pursuit of happiness and prosperity. Yeah we can startup our own businesses, but according to the NFIB, not many will survive, much less prosper.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
Communism? Me? No.

I would like more equality on our individual pursuit of happiness and prosperity. Yeah we can startup our own businesses, but according to the NFIB, not many will survive, much less prosper.
.
Phew!:D
We are NFIB members, it's true that most businesses fail. For any successful businesses, it takes several attempts before they tend to take off. It takes extreme hard work, dedication and willingness to not let failure stop you.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Okay SintonFan, I have every right to express my opinions, and in no way are they communist. I am all for everyone having equal rights and treatment. You are a man who supports the Patriot Act and voted against gay marriage just because you think that your beliefs should run our country. Don't sit back and call me a communist, you are a person who wants our country to be built upon what you believe and nothing else. You have been close-minded to the hardships of others, blaming it on laziness and lack of determination, but that is not right. You do a great job of pointing the finger at others and show a lack of consideration. Why don't you open your eyes to the people in our country who are suffering and trying to better their situation. You think that the road to success is paved with gold, but it's not, there are people out there who are fighting as hard as they can to climb up the ladder, but there are people at the top of corporations who push the ladder off of the ledge and let them fall, the same people who used the people below him to hold up the ladder so they could climb to the top. My beliefs aren't communist, they are happening every day. Look at the greedy Enron's that we have in our nation and all of the companies who are outsourcing jobs because it is cheaper to have someone else do it overseas than our own fellow Americans. The way I see it, they are selling out for a quick buck, and that is not American. But in your eyes, I guess that me looking at it that way is communism, right?

[wedo]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Okay SintonFan, I have every right to express my opinions, and in no way are they communist. I am all for everyone having equal rights and treatment. You are a man who supports the Patriot Act and voted against gay marriage just because you think that your beliefs should run our country. Don't sit back and call me a communist, you are a person who wants our country to be built upon what you believe and nothing else. You have been close-minded to the hardships of others, blaming it on laziness and lack of determination, but that is not right. You do a great job of pointing the finger at others and show a lack of consideration. Why don't you open your eyes to the people in our country who are suffering and trying to better their situation. You think that the road to success is paved with gold, but it's not, there are people out there who are fighting as hard as they can to climb up the ladder, but there are people at the top of corporations who push the ladder off of the ledge and let them fall, the same people who used the people below him to hold up the ladder so they could climb to the top. My beliefs aren't communist, they are happening every day. Look at the greedy Enron's that we have in our nation and all of the companies who are outsourcing jobs because it is cheaper to have someone else do it overseas than our own fellow Americans. The way I see it, they are selling out for a quick buck, and that is not American. But in your eyes, I guess that me looking at it that way is communism, right?



man dude your good!! i wish i good put my thoughts into words like that!!! good job!!! Its exactly what i was thinking!!!!!!

[Blastoderm55]

Frankly, pure capitalism scares me more than communism. Its scary to imagine business that have no government restrictions. There would be no unions, no insurance, no consumer protection, no laws against price gauging and fixing, no minimum wage, you name it. These are facets of pure capitalism that are ignored by people who believe that we have a real capitalist economy. Our current mixed market economy takes from capitalism AND socialism, yet can still be improved. My biggest gripe? Stop giving tax breaks to the wealthy. If they want to make a donation to add a write off on their returns, that's fine, but this administrations's continued burdening of the middle class with the majority of this country's taxes (in proportion to income) is just ridiculous. If us hovering between the middle and lower class have to pay 15% of what we make toward income, property, and sales taxes, guess what rich boy, you should too. 15% of a million is a lot you say? Well guess what, 15% to someone making a 100th of that is a hell of a lot too.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Okay SintonFan, I have every right to express my opinions, and in no way are they communist. I am all for everyone having equal rights and treatment. You are a man who supports the Patriot Act and voted against gay marriage just because you think that your beliefs should run our country. Don't sit back and call me a communist, you are a person who wants our country to be built upon what you believe and nothing else. You have been close-minded to the hardships of others, blaming it on laziness and lack of determination, but that is not right. You do a great job of pointing the finger at others and show a lack of consideration. Why don't you open your eyes to the people in our country who are suffering and trying to better their situation. You think that the road to success is paved with gold, but it's not, there are people out there who are fighting as hard as they can to climb up the ladder, but there are people at the top of corporations who push the ladder off of the ledge and let them fall, the same people who used the people below him to hold up the ladder so they could climb to the top. My beliefs aren't communist, they are happening every day. Look at the greedy Enron's that we have in our nation and all of the companies who are outsourcing jobs because it is cheaper to have someone else do it overseas than our own fellow Americans. The way I see it, they are selling out for a quick buck, and that is not American. But in your eyes, I guess that me looking at it that way is communism, right?
.
Where did I call you communist? I asked Blasto if he was but thank goodness he said no.
Stop putting word in my keyboard. I said that bringing up class warfare(envy for some) is one of the tenets of the communist manifesto...
It's the truth.
G, I do feel for those that struggle but I tend to spend more time taking care of my family and our future, instead of putting my energies into worrying about what I can't do.:rolleyes:
As a person ages they do tend to think a little more with your mind instead of you "heart". Using your mind solves problems while using mainly your "heart" leads to ulcers and doesn't accomplish much.
It sounds pretty cold-hearted but it isn't. Like PPHSFan said, the rich in this country employ those in the middle class and those who are poor. That's not a bad thing, that a good thing... it's just that for some on here it seems like the glass is always half-empty while if they'd stop being so hard on every little thing that has happened in recent times they'd realize it was half-full or more.:)

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
Frankly, pure capitalism scares me more than communism. Its scary to imagine business that have no government restrictions. There would be no unions, no insurance, no consumer protection, no laws against price gauging and fixing, no minimum wage, you name it. These are facets of pure capitalism that are ignored by people who believe that we have a real capitalist economy. Our current mixed market economy takes from capitalism AND socialism, yet can still be improved. My biggest gripe? Stop giving tax breaks to the wealthy. If they want to make a donation to add a write off on their returns, that's fine, but this administrations's continued burdening of the middle class with the majority of this country's taxes (in proportion to income) is just ridiculous. If us hovering between the middle and lower class have to pay 15% of what we make toward income, property, and sales taxes, guess what rich boy, you should too. 15% of a million is a lot you say? Well guess what, 15% to someone making a 100th of that is a hell of a lot too.
.
The poor pay no taxes...:p

[Blastoderm55]

They might get fat tax return checks, but they still pay into a social security fund that they'll likely never utilize, as well as 8 and a quarter on every dollar they spend. Hell, the desparities even apply on the corporate level. I'm a small corporation, and can buy 52" RCA HDTVs for $1234 THROUGH A BUYING GROUP while Wal-Mart sells the same TV minus a few features for $896!!! How can any business compete with that???

[wedo]

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
Where did I call you communist? I asked Blasto if he was but thank goodness he said no.
Stop putting word in my keyboard. I said that bringing up class warfare(envy for some) is one of the tenets of the communist manifesto...
It's the truth.
G, I do feel for those that struggle but I tend to spend more time taking care of my family and our future, instead of putting my energies into worrying about what I can't do.:rolleyes:
As a person ages they do tend to think a little more with your mind instead of you "heart". Using your mind solves problems while using mainly your "heart" leads to ulcers and doesn't accomplish much.
It sounds pretty cold-hearted but it isn't. Like PPHSFan said, the rich in this country employ those in the middle class and those who are poor. That's not a bad thing, that a good thing... it's just that for some on here it seems like the glass is always half-empty while if they'd stop being so hard on every little thing that has happened in recent times they'd realize it was half-full or more.:)

IMO its sounds like you were born into money!!! Although you may have work to get what you have now but it sounds like you always had someone there to support you!!! Which most of America doesn't have!! and by that i mean "money"

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by wedo
IMO its sounds like you were born into money!!! Although you may have work to get what you have now but it sounds like you always had someone there to support you!!! Which most of America doesn't have!! and by that i mean "money"
.
Quite the opposite. I wore handed-down "roach stompers" as a child. Do you know what those are? Well, in the 80's they became vogue and turned into Vans. Go figure...
I also wore hand-me down plaid pants and was mercilessly taunted because you could tell I was poor. We had food stamps. We bought groceries in town, social stigma and all. My dad, God Bless Him, was a manager(taking a huge pay cut from his last job) of a little known propane dealership in Mathis, who just happened to lose his job in Corpus Christi at CPC International. The plant shut down for various reasons, one of them being is the local unions constant demands. We had food stamps and very lean Christmas' until he was somewhat compensated for years of work in the mids 80's. My brothers and I had more fun with the "Dreambooks" Sears and JC Penny Christmas catalogs than anything else we ever got for on Christmas morning! Mainly a few new items of clothes or underwear, God Bless my parents for doing so!
All the while my Dad planted ten acres of Broom Corn for us four boys to harvest.... just to give us a taste of what he did growing up. He and HIS three brothers had to hand pick a few hundred acres of cotton every year! I hated it at the time, being 8 and then 9, but have learned to appreciate what my Dad did for us as it taught us a work ethic and opened our eyes as to what we could do and what IS POSSIBLE! My dad made ZERO prfit from that broom corn we harvested. This while my friends were playing Atari or riding their bikes(just being kids).
My Father is known as one of the hardest working men in the area and he made sure us children knew what it took to work your way up through life, troubles and all, as he led by example.
I was not born into money...
I struggle now just to make ends meat(juggling the family business and my own experimental business), but it's no fault of the government or our elected leaders. I take full responsibility for myself and my family, I don't need a scapegoat to make me feel better or to blame others.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
Quite the opposite. I wore handed-down "roach stompers" as a child. Do you know what those are? Well, in the 80's they became vogue and turned into Vans. Go figure...
I also wore hand-me down plaid pants and was mercilessly taunted because you could tell I was poor. We had food stamps. We bought groceries in town, social stigma and all. My dad, God Bless Him, was a manager(taking a huge pay cut from his last job) of a little known propane dealership in Mathis, who just happened to lose his job in Corpus Christi at CPC International. The plant shut down for various reasons, one of them being is the local unions constant demands. We had food stamps and very lean Christmas' until he was somewhat compensated for years of work in the mids 80's. My brothers and I had more fun with the "Dreambooks" Sears and JC Penny Christmas catalogs than anything else we ever got for on Christmas morning! Mainly a few new items of clothes or underwear, God Bless my parents for doing so!
All the while my Dad planted ten acres of Broom Corn for us four boys to harvest.... just to give us a taste of what he did growing up. He and HIS three brothers had to hand pick a few hundred acres of cotton every year! I hated it at the time, being 8 and then 9, but have learned to appreciate what my Dad did for us as it taught us a work ethic and opened our eyes as to what we could do and what IS POSSIBLE! My dad made ZERO prfit from that broom corn we harvested. This while my friends were playing Atari or riding their bikes(just being kids).
My Father is known as one of the hardest working men in the area and he made sure us children knew what it took to work your way up through life, troubles and all, as he led by example.
I was not born into money...
I struggle now just to make ends meat(juggling the family business and my own experimental business), but it's no fault of the government or our elected leaders. I take full responsibility for myself and my family, I don't need a scapegoat to make me feel better or to blame others.

So you know of the struggles that your father endured, and yet you still sit there and say that we should stop giving out financial aid because there are people out there who abuse the system? Think back when you were growing up and ask yourself, "Where would we have been then?" You came from humble beginnings, and so did my brother and I. I saw first hand how hard my father has worked to give myself and my brothers a better life, and now I am also seeing how large companies are pissing on their employees. I think that it is admirable for you to take full responsibility of your family, but I'll be damned if I am going to sit back and let large corporations destroy my future and the future of my peers. I have a dream to be successful one day, and that opportunity is being crushed by large corporations who want to find the cheapest way to do things. I disagree with you, I do think that the responsibility falls on the shoulders of our elected officials. I will maintain that there is blame to go around to both parties, neither can do everything right, but you all know which political party I support, and as I am not at the liberty to discuss that, I will not tell you why. I do, however, believe that there should be tariffs imposed on companies like Dell who outsource their jobs to other countries. These tariffs would make it more expensive to do just that and keep jobs within America. I know that what I'm saying may sound unrealistic and unfair, but I don't think that it is right for those companies to try to dictate the economy of the United States to suit themselves. Recently, there has been a decline in 14,000 jobs in industry and a 13,000 drop in information and technology. This is due to companies outsourcing their jobs to India or other third world countries because they can hire employees for just a few dollars a day. These jobs that were once held by middle class employees making decent wages has led to an increase in people taking jobs in the restaraunt business, with 10,000 new jobs being created in that industry alone, not only driving down the demand for the jobs themselves, but the overall pay of the people who work there. This shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that there are people out there who are willing to take a lower-paying job in order to make ends meet. Will one of you please show me how this isn't holding down working Americans who are trying to better their situation?

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
(1)and now I am also seeing how large companies are pissing on their employees.
.
.
(2)I have a dream to be successful one day, and that opportunity is being crushed by large corporations who want to find the cheapest way to do things.
.
.
(3)I do, however, believe that there should be tariffs imposed on companies like Dell who outsource their jobs to other countries. These tariffs would make it more expensive to do just that and keep jobs within America.
.
.
(4)I know that what I'm saying may sound unrealistic and unfair, but I don't think that it is right for those companies to try to dictate the economy of the United States to suit themselves.
.
(1) Was that first hand knowledge or in a Wall Street journal article(don't quote them as they are poison to you)?
(2) Prove it that Corporations are crushing opportunities anywhere, much less them searching to be cheaper(lol competitive). I'd say your socialist, communist leaders are now at work to get rid of our American Way. I can prove that more than your statement.:hand: And BTW, just how have you been crushed by Nasty Hateful American Corporations? Have you started your company yet or are you just repeating socialist doctrine? Prove it IF you can. Make your arguments hold water without going to a friggin socialist site please.:hand:
(3) I know you must have an reason to bring up Dell here. Can you tell me why Dell was brought up besides the fact that they are from Texas? So are you saying that a corporation can't do what what they can do legally? Is this our president's fault? If you think it is, prove it without vagaries that might be geared to putting down our present administration.
(4) How do corporations dictate our economy? Have you taken "Economy 101" or any other better than that? If so, please explain HOW they DICTATE "the economy" and prove your rogue dissertation.

[Macarthur]

Corporate America is not the "American Way" you speak of. Quite the opposite. Consolidation of all industries and the domination of industries that causes is making it more and more difficult for people to start small businesses. Small business in American is dissappearing and the resulting domination by corporate america is un-American.

I know corporations provide jobs and benefits to millions, but don't think for a minute that companies are doing everything they can to lower labor costs no matter what.

[Blastoderm55]

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
(1) Was that first hand knowledge or in a Wall Street journal article(don't quote them as they are poison to you)?
(2) Prove it that Corporations are crushing opportunities anywhere, much less them searching to be cheaper(lol competitive). I'd say your socialist, communist leaders are now at work to get rid of our American Way. I can prove that more than your statement.:hand: And BTW, just how have you been crushed by Nasty Hateful American Corporations? Have you started your company yet or are you just repeating socialist doctrine? Prove it IF you can. Make your arguments hold water without going to a friggin socialist site please.:hand:
(3) I know you must have an reason to bring up Dell here. Can you tell me why Dell was brought up besides the fact that they are from Texas? So are you saying that a corporation can't do what what they can do legally? Is this our president's fault? If you think it is, prove it without vagaries that might be geared to putting down our present administration.
(4) How do corporations dictate our economy? Have you taken "Economy 101" or any other better than that? If so, please explain HOW they DICTATE "the economy" and prove your rogue dissertation.

1. Just look around a bit and talk to some people. You'll here how in South Texas alone, Gulf Marine slashes jobs seaonally just to rehire again at a lower wage. At the same time, Wal-Mart axes people who rise too high in their pay scale. In my line of work, new hires are brought in to the major players (RNT, RCII, RWY), in most cases without any formal training, and are expected to hit collection targets that would make Capital One and Citibank blush. Thrown to the wolves and then tossed aside when after a 60 hour work week they're unable to reach a goal of 93.1% collected. And in regards to Dell, they offered my fiancee, a recent graduate of the University of Texas, a job in sales making $15,000 a year salary and another $15,000 a year if she meets sales goals of 100,000 units per month with shifts ranging from 6 am to 4am. Yes, 6 am to 4 am. This is what our grads are being rewarded with? I make more with no degree! Where is the motivation to better ourselves when jobs are being whored to the lowest taker?

2. I think my rant about Wal-Mart in a previous reply explains their ridiculous competitive advantage. At the current point, it makes more sense for a small business such as myself to purchase electronics from Wal-Mart as their buying power blows away that of our electronics distributors, most of which sell factory direct. To make matters worse for the workers of this nation, national furniture retailers now outsource the construction of case goods and soft goods alike. This has lead to the demise of one extremely high quality sofa manufacturer from New Braunfels, Barkel (www.barkel.com). Meanwhile, American factory workers have lost their jobs to cheaper labor and goods from China, Vietnam, Cambodia, Brazil, and Singapore. It makes sense as our nation can no longer produce the lumber it needs domestically and having raw goods shipped in from South America only makes the costs of production even higher. I do my part in stocking my store with as many American and Texan built brands, but there comes a point when I as the little guy have to buy into imports just to survive. The days of pride behind the "Made In America" sticker are long gone.

3. Again, with Dell. Yes, they outsource jobs like many in this nation. Unfortunately, thanks to legislation passed by this administration, the act itself is not illegal. It is completely immoral and without ethic, however.

4. As for corporations dictating our economy, look no further than the oil companies. A spike in oil price will cause stocks elsewhere to drop on a whim. Its been a while since Econ 1301 and Macroecon, but with corporations currently filling the pockets of our elected officials with money to protect their interests, its inevitable that some of the turns and twists of our economy have been masterminded in the board rooms of our major corporations. Its major corporations who asked for an exemption from paying a prevailing wage to those hired in the wake of Katrina. At the same time, once a corporation has left a market (think Robstown and Wal-Mart leaving the community), the remaining community is left in shambles and has to try and pickup the pieces that were first destroyed upon its market penetration and later in its exodus which undoubtably resulted in many lost jobs as well as incremental tax revenue for the district. In my community of Beeville, there's a buzz in the air with tons of new construction and big players coming in. The largest is, as you may have guessed, a new Super Wal-Mart. Yes, it'll create jobs that pay a decent wage for a city with a cost of living as low as Beeville, but it'll also destroy the legacy of downtown businesses that I am proud to be a part of. A new Chinese buffet is nearly up and running near the Wal-Mart. Meanwhile, the Chinese shop across the street has shuts its doors, along with a very upscale fashion boutique that simply could not compete with Bealls. Very soon, a Walgreens will be up and running, cutting into the market which already features HEB pharmacy (which is being renovated), CVS, Wal-Mart, and the mom and pop pharmacy located next to me which has served as a landmark in this community for decades. Yes, many customers will stay, but for those looking to get the cheaper corporate price at the opposite side of town, it could spell doom. This is how corporations dictate economies. Those of scale as well as those at the local level.

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
(1) Was that first hand knowledge or in a Wall Street journal article(don't quote them as they are poison to you)?
(2) Prove it that Corporations are crushing opportunities anywhere, much less them searching to be cheaper(lol competitive). I'd say your socialist, communist leaders are now at work to get rid of our American Way. I can prove that more than your statement.:hand: And BTW, just how have you been crushed by Nasty Hateful American Corporations? Have you started your company yet or are you just repeating socialist doctrine? Prove it IF you can. Make your arguments hold water without going to a friggin socialist site please.:hand:
(3) I know you must have an reason to bring up Dell here. Can you tell me why Dell was brought up besides the fact that they are from Texas? So are you saying that a corporation can't do what what they can do legally? Is this our president's fault? If you think it is, prove it without vagaries that might be geared to putting down our present administration.
(4) How do corporations dictate our economy? Have you taken "Economy 101" or any other better than that? If so, please explain HOW they DICTATE "the economy" and prove your rogue dissertation.


I love how everyone that disagrees with you is either a socailist or communist. Guess any dissenting opinions from yours makes you a traitor to this country. But since you asked I will address you.

Every year corporations take 170 billion dollars in federal hadnouts helping them do things they should be paying for themselves. That is $1338 a year going to provide welfare to the rich. Note this is only federal not local or state handouts to corporations. In contrast all the social programs combined from Aid to Families with Dependant children to school lunches and housing assistance in only $50 billion a year. That breaks down to $415 dollars a year to people that need it. That is tax breaks that could be aiding the middle and lower class and is instead offering drilling incentives to large corporations. IN the latest energy bill there is a 5 billion dollar tax relief to the nations largest oil companies offering them incentives to drill for more oil while last year they posted profits of 343 billion dollars. I may not be an economist but something does not add up. I am a single man that works his way through college and my income tax return was $1.08. Meaning they kept almost everything I paid in and I was in school for the entire year. How is this fair to anyone but corporations, and how is anyone but them benefitting from these handouts and tax cuts?

[sinfan75]

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
1. Just look around a bit and talk to some people. You'll here how in South Texas alone, Gulf Marine slashes jobs seaonally just to rehire again at a lower wage. I used to work at Gulf Marine about 6 years. did I get layed off? I quit because I Found something I liked better. When I worked there they had plenty of work to keep a full work force there. The last few years they've been forced to lay-off workers because they HAD no work. With the opening of Kiewit on the other side of Ingleside it didn't help. To say they lay off every year so they can slash wages is wrong. Gulf Marine doesn't have multiple projects going on like they used to. So when a project is done they must lay off help just like any other construction company when a project is done and there is no othewr work in the near future. At the same time, Wal-Mart axes people who rise too high in their pay scale. In my line of work, new hires are brought in to the major players (RNT, RCII, RWY), in most cases without any formal training, and are expected to hit collection targets that would make Capital One and Citibank blush. Thrown to the wolves and then tossed aside when after a 60 hour work week they're unable to reach a goal of 93.1% collected. And in regards to Dell, they offered my fiancee, a recent graduate of the University of Texas, a job in sales making $15,000 a year salary and another $15,000 a year if she meets sales goals of 100,000 units per month with shifts ranging from 6 am to 4am. Yes, 6 am to 4 am. This is what our grads are being rewarded with? I make more with no degree! Where is the motivation to better ourselves when jobs are being whored to the lowest taker?

2. I think my rant about Wal-Mart in a previous reply explains their ridiculous competitive advantage. At the current point, it makes more sense for a small business such as myself to purchase electronics from Wal-Mart as their buying power blows away that of our electronics distributors, most of which sell factory direct. To make matters worse for the workers of this nation, national furniture retailers now outsource the construction of case goods and soft goods alike. This has lead to the demise of one extremely high quality sofa manufacturer from New Braunfels, Barkel (www.barkel.com). Meanwhile, American factory workers have lost their jobs to cheaper labor and goods from China, Vietnam, Cambodia, Brazil, and Singapore. It makes sense as our nation can no longer produce the lumber it needs domestically and having raw goods shipped in from South America only makes the costs of production even higher. I do my part in stocking my store with as many American and Texan built brands, but there comes a point when I as the little guy have to buy into imports just to survive. The days of pride behind the "Made In America" sticker are long gone.

3. Again, with Dell. Yes, they outsource jobs like many in this nation. Unfortunately, thanks to legislation passed by this administration, the act itself is not illegal. It is completely immoral and without ethic, however.

4. As for corporations dictating our economy, look no further than the oil companies. A spike in oil price will cause stocks elsewhere to drop on a whim. Its been a while since Econ 1301 and Macroecon, but with corporations currently filling the pockets of our elected officials with money to protect their interests, its inevitable that some of the turns and twists of our economy have been masterminded in the board rooms of our major corporations. Its major corporations who asked for an exemption from paying a prevailing wage to those hired in the wake of Katrina. At the same time, once a corporation has left a market (think Robstown and Wal-Mart leaving the community), the remaining community is left in shambles and has to try and pickup the pieces that were first destroyed upon its market penetration and later in its exodus which undoubtably resulted in many lost jobs as well as incremental tax revenue for the district. In my community of Beeville, there's a buzz in the air with tons of new construction and big players coming in. The largest is, as you may have guessed, a new Super Wal-Mart. Yes, it'll create jobs that pay a decent wage for a city with a cost of living as low as Beeville, but it'll also destroy the legacy of downtown businesses that I am proud to be a part of. A new Chinese buffet is nearly up and running near the Wal-Mart. Meanwhile, the Chinese shop across the street has shuts its doors, along with a very upscale fashion boutique that simply could not compete with Bealls. Very soon, a Walgreens will be up and running, cutting into the market which already features HEB pharmacy (which is being renovated), CVS, Wal-Mart, and the mom and pop pharmacy located next to me which has served as a landmark in this community for decades. Yes, many customers will stay, but for those looking to get the cheaper corporate price at the opposite side of town, it could spell doom. This is how corporations dictate economies. I got Those of scale as well as those at the local level.

[Aesculus gilmus]

Well, this is all academic now. What President George H.W. Bush announced on Sept. 11, 1990, as his dream for the world has been firmly in place for a while now. It is what he calls the "New World Order." Everything he and now his son have done has been designed to enhance the NWO system as it spreads its tentacles worldwide.

So political discussions about this and that trivial detail of what government might do or not do to rein in transnational corporate power might be interesting in a theoretical sense, but are going nowhere in reality.

You have no power over anything anymore. It is probably an illusion to think we who are alive now were ever free citizens. I doubt if that's been the case since at least 1913, the year the Federal Reserve was created. That began the system of debt slavery, a system Thomas Jefferson warned against and Andrew Jackson took action against (surviving an assassination attempt in the process).

The New World Order involves rule by transnational corporations. Elections are for show and in many (perhaps most) cases are rigged, especially at the federal level. The so-called "representatives" are bought off. And if that doesn't work, there is now an NSA surveillance file of everything they've done and said over the course of the last few decades, not to mention FBI and various other alphabet agencies who keep an eye on us.

My best advice to young people would be to become investors in these corporations which rule the world. I don't know whatever happened to him but there was a guy named OldCardinal from Bridge City who would relate to what I'm saying here.

Now many of you young people may say, "Well, it's just not practical to think everyone can be an investor." And you would be right. But labor is not organized anywhere (it never was in this state) and so will always be in a "race to the bottom" dictated by transnational corporate competition

I think the last person who tried to point this out was Ross Perot in the early 1990s. We see what happened to him. He was threatened. His family was threatened. And today you do not see Ross Perot speaking out on any political issue. I would guess someone in the power structure (of which he is also a part) made him an offer he couldn't refuse.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
(1) Was that first hand knowledge or in a Wall Street journal article(don't quote them as they are poison to you)?
(2) Prove it that Corporations are crushing opportunities anywhere, much less them searching to be cheaper(lol competitive). I'd say your socialist, communist leaders are now at work to get rid of our American Way. I can prove that more than your statement.:hand: And BTW, just how have you been crushed by Nasty Hateful American Corporations? Have you started your company yet or are you just repeating socialist doctrine? Prove it IF you can. Make your arguments hold water without going to a friggin socialist site please.:hand:
(3) I know you must have an reason to bring up Dell here. Can you tell me why Dell was brought up besides the fact that they are from Texas? So are you saying that a corporation can't do what what they can do legally? Is this our president's fault? If you think it is, prove it without vagaries that might be geared to putting down our present administration.
(4) How do corporations dictate our economy? Have you taken "Economy 101" or any other better than that? If so, please explain HOW they DICTATE "the economy" and prove your rogue dissertation.

Let me begin by saying that I have never read the Wall Street Journal, nor do I sit around all day watching CNN or Fox News. The socialist and communist leaders that you speak of are the ones sitting in office as we speak, the ones that you voted for. Have you ever noticed that the people who support communism in their nations are the ones who are living well off with more money and possessions than they need or deserve? Take that into consideration when you see that all of the people that have money in our nation all support the same political party, the same party that offers tax cuts and tax breaks for them. I'm really having trouble comprehending what you are talking about when you say "socialist doctrine." Unlike you, I don't browse around the internet looking to see what other people have to say about the subject, I only look at the facts that are presented to me through the changings of the economy. The reason I brought up Dell was the fact that they are creating jobs in India because it is cheaper to employ citizens in that nation and ship back the computers than it is to create jobs for Americans. If you take a look at what Dell and other companies that do this, all they are doing is taking OUR money and giving it to other countries, thereby helping stagnate our economy (I know, with you and your wisdom are going to ask how, and my answer is when money is going out and none is going back in slows down our economic growth) and stimulate the economy of other nations. I think that it is time that something be done about it, and I never pointed the finger directly at the president you voted for, either. My contention is that it is time for them to stop biting the hand that feeds them. For your last request, I will simply say that you have no business arguing about the subject if you cannot deduct any ways large corporations dictate our economy in our previous statements on this post and the ones before. Now that I have fulfilled your requests, I would like you to go back and read my last post on this thread and answer my last question for you.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by rockdale80
I love how everyone that disagrees with you is either a socailist or communist. Guess any dissenting opinions from yours makes you a traitor to this country. But since you asked I will address you.

Every year corporations take 170 billion dollars in federal hadnouts helping them do things they should be paying for themselves. That is $1338 a year going to provide welfare to the rich. Note this is only federal not local or state handouts to corporations. In contrast all the social programs combined from Aid to Families with Dependant children to school lunches and housing assistance in only $50 billion a year. That breaks down to $415 dollars a year to people that need it. That is tax breaks that could be aiding the middle and lower class and is instead offering drilling incentives to large corporations. IN the latest energy bill there is a 5 billion dollar tax relief to the nations largest oil companies offering them incentives to drill for more oil while last year they posted profits of 343 billion dollars. I may not be an economist but something does not add up. I am a single man that works his way through college and my income tax return was $1.08. Meaning they kept almost everything I paid in and I was in school for the entire year. How is this fair to anyone but corporations, and how is anyone but them benefitting from these handouts and tax cuts?
.
Look RD80, follow this link: DSoA (http://www.dsausa.org/resources.html)
I wouldn't keep bringing up those words but many of yalls arguments, to a tee, are arguments layed out by those from that website, which in fact are socialist and communist. The Progressive Caucus is in fact the largest caucus in Congress and they are allied with the DSoA.
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then what is it...
it's a duck.
I know many of yall don't think you are espousing these viewpoints but in fact that's what yall are doing. I'm sorry but it's painfully obvious.
In fact the membership list for DSoA used to be on the website but it was taken down in the early 2000's because it's congressional members couldn't reveal what they actually stand for as it would have lead to many being defeated in elections.
.
I know it's gang up on SintonFan time:D , but I'll have to continue this fascinating discussion with yall tomorrow. I've got a hot dogs and apple pie to cook.:p :D

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
Look RD80, follow this link: DSoA (http://www.dsausa.org/resources.html)
I wouldn't keep bringing up those words but many of yalls arguments, to a tee, are arguments layed out by those from that website, which in fact are socialist and communist. The Progressive Caucus is in fact the largest caucus in Congress and they are allied with the DSoA.
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then what is it...
it's a duck.
I know many of yall don't think you are espousing these viewpoints but in fact that's what yall are doing. I'm sorry but it's painfully obvious.
In fact the membership list for DSoA used to be on the website but it was taken down in the early 2000's because it's congressional members couldn't reveal what they actually stand for as it would have lead to many being defeated in elections.
.
I know it's gang up on SintonFan time:D , but I'll have to continue this fascinating discussion with yall tomorrow. I've got a hot dogs and apple pie to cook.:p :D

I guess that anything that goes against your point of view is considered to be communist. You yourself have visited these communist websites, but yet I see in no way what I have said is considered communist. All that I'm saying is that major corporations are stepping on the common man. That's not a communist point of view. I'm not saying let's take away all the possessions of others and "share" them amongst ourselves. If anything should be considered communist it is the way that companies are using their employees as expendable items and have no compassion to the retirees and the workers of their company, frequently trying to take away the retirement benefits of former workers and healtcare benefits of current and former employees in order to save money and increase profits. I'm sorry, you're going to have to show me how that is communist, and I don't appreciate that every time you don't have a rebuttal you come back and start pointing fingers and calling myself and my brother communists. If you don't have anything to reply, don't start throwing false accusations out there, they tend to cause hard feelings.

[mustang04]

im so glad gary (bbde) is my cousin:)

[rockdale80]

The post I made earlier is 100% factual and yet you pawn it off as socialist. I am not making a socialist argument. It is factual and there is no refuting facts. Sorry, but nice try to sling my name in the mud for providing you with facts. So go back and refute the facts with a valid argument other than I am a socialist because you ask a question and I answer it with a fact rather than an opinion. Maybe if you want to prove any point you make you should try to do the same thing. Leaving a website to try to make me look bad or writing a dissenting OPINION yourself doesnt prove anything other than how narrow minded you are. You cant refute my previous post because it absolutely true. There is noone that can deny it, and if you think you can then go for it. So nice try in making me look bad but it only made you look like an idiot.

[CenTexSports]

The fact is there are other ways besides socializing medicene. That leads to socializing the oil and gas industry because they are too expensive and it is downhill from there. Everybody wants to make a good living, have a nice family, spare time to spend with your family and everything to be great. But you can not have it handed to you, you MUST work for it. We live in a democratic republic and if we want to continue to live at the level we currently do we must continue to work to make it work. Bigger government and socialism (including socialized health care) will only drag us down to the level of other moderately successful countries where the AVERAGE tax rate is 50%.

Long live capitalism, trickle down economics, and a great country built on Judao/Christain beliefs and morals.

[cdlvj]

Blurb from Sun Microsystems:

More specifically, the plan addresses several cost cutting initiatives including a 11-13% reduction in force and the consolidation of its real estate portfolio. The company is reducing the approximately 37,500 worldwide employee headcount by 4,000 to 5,000 people over the next six months and is selling its Newark campus and exiting leased facilities in Sunnyvale, Ca. The company will continue operations of its two major Bay Area campuses, Menlo Park and Santa Clara, Ca.

The article says nothing about going bankrupt, and it is just plain greed. Here we go again, laying off personnel making $75000 to $150000 and in another 6 months replacing them with H1-B Visa making $20000 a year.

They expect to save $590 million a year. The employess provide a significant contribution to our economy and now it will be zilch as they will have to adjust and take lower paying jobs. No more new cars, HDTV's and other items that these 5,000 people could buy. Has a big impact on other industries in our economy.

[Bullaholic]

My purpose in putting up this post was to bring attention to the fact that this country is beyond the crisis point in healthcare coverage for persons of mid and low incomes. I do not advocate a 100% government subsidy for a national healthcare plan to cover these income groups, but rather the implementation of a reasonable cost healthcare package provided by an aggregate of private insurers which would be initiated in Congress to pave the way for the startup of such a program. If such a plan were implemented the cost could be amortized over the large number of participants satisfactorily. Under our current helathcare system, the reality is that low income persons, and even some middle income families, with no insurance are never able to fully pay for the costs of long-term or crisis medical care, so hospitals and physicians are forced to "write off" these loses and makup up the losses from the rest of us and the insurance companies which, coupled with the skyrocketing cost of medical care, causes rates to soar. This situation gets worse every day---not better. Now is the time for all Americans to end the partisan bickering and idealogical arguments and call on our lawmakers to do something about national healthcare that "makes sense" and will benefit all Americans. Let's do something now---and get it "right" for a change in Congress.

[pirate4state]

TRUST NO ONE!!!!! THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE

[Bullaholic]

The "Black Helicopters" are coming.
"Big Brother is Watching".